Lessons for Oranje Under 17

blog Euro 2020 WC2018
by Jan

Oranje Under-17 didn’t manage to win the world title last week. The Dutch talents were on a mission to win it, but ended up as fourth, in Brazil. They look back on a hectic tournament, with deep troughs and high peaks. “We need to learn from this!”.

The tournament ended last Thursday, when Youri Regeer misses the deciding penalty in the semis vs Mexico. The benjamin of the squad fell to the ground, with his shirt over his head to mask his tears, while the Mexicans danced on his grave. The Ajax player – barely 16 years old – is confronted with the harsh laws of top sports. Regeer is unconsolable and has to be brought off the pitch by assistant coach Henk Brugge. And the same applies to his team mates. After their escape from the group, the feeling existed that Oranje was invincible: who is going to stop us now?

And yes, against Mexico, Oranje was the better team and Regeer’s goal in the match was the logical result. But a free kick that shouldn’t have been awarded allowed the Mexicans to score and they did take the spot kicks better. A scenario no one took into account unfolded… And now, a feeling of emptiness. On the pitch, in the dressing room, the bus…the tears of this massive disappointment flow and it seems to go on forever.

Anass Salah-Eddine tries to describe it: “I thought: what is happening here? We have been working for this for two years and and now this. I can’t even describe it. Our dream was taken from us.” The youngest player in the squad had to take the biggest blow. Vergeer: “Our world just collapsed.”

Coach Peter van der Veen, who worked with the group since 2016: “When you see their pain, your heart cries….” He led Oranje U17 to the European Title in May and after he focused fully on winning the world cup. It didn’t go smoothly, the team having had great moments with weak phases and against Mexico, lack of sharpness in front of goal cost the team dramatically.

Van der Veen and staff aren’t successful in getting the team back to their feet for the game for the 3rd place. Taabouni does score the first goal, and a beauty, but in the second half, Oranje implodes. It’s that goalie Calvin Raatsie is in top form otherwise the score would have been embarrassing. Star player Sontje Hansen: “I have to admit, before the game and even during the game, the match vs Mexico was playing in my head. I wasn’t able to kick it, that disappointment. I fear this will be with me for weeks…”

The Oranje squad stayed in Brazil specially for Hansen and to watch te finals between Brazil and Mexico. The FIFA pulled open a can of legends for this, to help FIFA Chairperson Gianni Infantino: Júlio César, Bebeto, Zé Roberto, Roque Júnior, Ronaldo, Cafú and many others.

It’s a weird story. Brazil originally didn’t qualify for this tournament. Peru was certain to go, as Peru was the host, but when the FIFA checked the progress in Peru in March, they were not happy with the developments and decided to host the tournament in Brazil. Ergo, as host country, Brazil was allowed in. And they won it too, in the 93rd minute of the game! Oranje watches with mixed feelings, but by then, Hansen is already taken away by a FIFA person. He needs to be part of the celebrations.

Hansen receives the trophy for top scorer from Ronaldo. A moment to never forget for Sontje. Ronaldo applaudes for Hansen. The latter looks star struck as Ronaldo was his idol when he was a kid. Sontje was born two months before Ronaldo scored twice in the World Cup finals in 2002 but he knows all about the Brazilian: “He was my idol. I even had a hairdo like his… a little bunch of hair on the front, hahaha.” Ronaldo even whispers “Goed gedaan!” in Dutch in the player’s ear (Well Done!). Hansen merely said: thanks. “At least we go home with some sort of trophy.”

The Ajax player is having a remarkable tournament anyway. Last week, Antione Griezmann sent him a message on whatsapp. The Barcelona forward, world champion with France in 2018, let Hansen know he’s following him. “Yo Mini Boss! We follow you and talk about you. When you’re back, we should meet!”

This was the World Cup of Hansen. After the dramatic start vs Japan, coach Van der Veen benched the attacker. But he came back in the team vs the US and since that moment, he reached a terrific level. He scored 6 goals, all beauties and had 3 assists, maybe even more beautiful. But he impressed most with his overall game, his touches, his finesse and brilliance. When Oranje was almost down and out, Hansen got up. When the team started to lose confidence, he injected it into the team by demanding the ball and starting to dribble. He shot Holland to the knock out stage, scored a hattrick in the next game and was the man of the match in the quarters.

Van der Veen: “I don’t want to say that Sontje saved us. It really was a team performance, but yes, it was amazing to see the flow he was in. He made a huge stap in his development and in his professionalism. He took the sub turn well and looked in the mirror and said: my time is now! And it was!”.

Strangely enough, he is not amongst the three best players of the tournament, but he did make a name for himself. Simply ask Ronaldo or Griezmann.

Many scouts traveled to Brazil, mainly to check out Naci Ünüvar, will have circled Hansen’s name. But Oranje had several top performers.  Van der Veen’s eyes light up when we mention Youri Regeer. The 16 year old was brought into the squad at the last moment and started on the bench. After Japan he was brought in and never left the team. At Ajax, Vergeer is a #10 with scoring capabilities, but in this Under 17, he plays as a central defender.

Van der Veen: “With Regeer in the team, we simply function better. And that is quite something for a kid only 16 years old. He really presented himself. He makes the right choices on the ball and reads the game so well. This is why he wins many balls too, he is always there where he needs to be. And this is why people compare him to Frenkie de Jong, although Youri is a different type of player. But there are similarities, sure. Youri has a lot to learn still, but for a 16 year old he is quite something.”

So much so that Juventus and Real Madrid already checked his contract status. The squad is aware of this and are kidding the youngster. They call him “Great Player” as a joke but he does deserve his new status. In his first days with the team, he’s quiet and reserved but as the tournament wore on, he started to direct the build up and was continuously positioning his team players. And none of them talked back… Vergeer: “Yes, I think I grew into the tournament, and I’m quite proud actually. But I will never forget that missed penalty.”

Another strong holder in the team is Calvin Raatsie, another Ajax player. The 17 year old goalie made an impression with his footballing skills and could play as a sweeper while also impressing with risky build up passes. Sander Westerveld (ex Liverpool and ex Vitesse) sees the promise, as his keeper trainer: “He is a very complete goalie, which is remarkable for a 17 year old. He can play football too, and he is ok with high balls. Jasper Cillesen has a number of years in him, of course, but over time, Calvin will be his successor in Oranje.”

Three players reaching a high level, it wasn’t enough for the World Cup gold. The most talented players, like Naci Ünüvar, Ki-Jana Hoever and Mohamed Taabouni, simply weren’t good enough on the tournament. “The big lesson is, as long as there is hope, you got to believe in it and go for it. We demonstrated that here and that is a strong lesson. Second lesson: you need to stick to the agreements and if you don’t, you get beaten on this level. It’s been unforgettable and I think these lads will only get better as a result of all this.”

The team manager had a tough job though. “Well, in Holland I already noticed that they were complacent. They won the European title and though that they could coast in Brazil. I really had to wake them up. I confronted them with video material and we had to really go hard. We had some arguments, and harsh words were said. But they woke up. And the contrast surprised me.”

The question remains: how will the Oranje talents develop as a result. “We want to deliver these kids at the gate of the Big Oranje. This experience will help. When you purely look at talent, they could all go all the way. But there is a way to go. Talent alone is not enough. Mentality is what is needed. When you see the energy Brazil puts in to the matches, or the grinta (grit) with which Mexico plays. We can learn a lot from this. Mexico doesn’t need the ball to win matches. They are purely going for the result. Our players need to mature more. Some things – that are part of top sports – are still neglected a tad. Lifestyle, that sortathing. Sleeping enough, eating healthy, drinking enough water, etc etc. That is what makes the difference at the top. It’s percentages, but those win you the game and that makes the difference between a top player or a nice player. They need to step up because I can see the players that are below them…and they’re also extremely talented… So they need to step up.”

Skipper Ken Taylor: “We faced many new things. We had to play a big match every three days, I never did that before. And after the first match, I was benched. Also a first… And I had to learn to deal with that. But, overall, we failed. I mean, we went to win it, and we ended as fourth. That is not good enough. We need to learn to process this, which might be the key lesson for the rest of our career.”

Van der Veen agrees: “Winning teaches you to win. But you can learn from this as well. We were in a rollercoaster together and had good moments and bad moments. Harsh words were used but we also had moments of joy and had a lot of fun at times too. That is the strength of this team.”

The coach will say farewell now, after 3,5 years with this squad. He will now go back to the new group of Under 17s. “I saw these kids go from their puberty to maturity. It’s emotional to say goodbye but I will do so with price. We have had amazing experiences. And I do hope they will all have a wonderful career and that they’ll look back on this time with a smile on their faces.”

Back in the day…

Peru 2005… With Diego Biseswar, Marvin Emnes, Vernon Anita, Jeffrey Sarpong, John Goosens and Ruud Vormer

Mexico 2011

Boy de Jong, Memphis Depay, Nathan Ake, Terence Kongolo, Karim Rekik, Daan Disveld,  and sitting Anass Achahbar, Jetro Willems, JP Boetius, Joris van Overeem and Tonny Vilhena

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96 comments

  2. strangely Brobbery was active for Jong Ajax during the tournament and Graveberch if im not wrong too was eligible to play and again was active for jong ajax.

    also i think Maatsen will end up like Ake. he has been rotated all over place.

    1. Daley sinkgraven has also returned to training at Leverkusan after sitting out for a month with a thigh injury. he is another player who has been plugged with injuries. I really dont know if this guy will hit his peak.

      1. Oh, please, wilson. Your hard-on for Blind is just annoying. It makes no sense.

        It’s like your love for Lammers — who hasn’t played since July or something.

        Get over it.

          1. I suggest you go and watch the nations league final to see what Blind brings in big games. Vs average teams he is always comfortable going forward. Just to be on the same page, its the LB position im talking about not CB.

            Also its not about love or hate but the fact his weaknesses will be exposed at some stage and knowing it will and you still persist with him is suicide. In terms of compensating, it aint gonna happen with big guns because thats where his movement gets restricted knowing if he gets caught out, it gonna backfire. This in turn results in two which is awful to watch.

            One is side or lateral passing and the other that flank becomes dead. Im not making this up, its a fact.

  5. I think if koeman has watched ihattaren last night against Heerenveen, he knows it would be stupid of not bringing him to Euros

    He’s only 17 now and already playing like he’s 27!
    It would be an enormous mistake if he brings strootman instead

    Can’t wait to see how he plays together with frenkie , Wijnaldum , Propper / de rooon etc

    1. I really dont want to see Strootman and De Roon at team…Ake should be promoted to DM with inclusion of Ihatteren would be great if the lad is doing good..ATM Ihaterern and Ake plays better than Strootman and De roon..So gets it by merit..
      Dilorusen on front would give us another treat..
      Blind problem is that he knows he cannot be free vs top teams ..So there is no movemenst to and fro from him..This makes the team lagging in attack..When u have dumfries on RB..things get furthur worse..as if you are fighting against a strong guy by tieing up both hands.
      this Happend Vs Portuagl at nations league final…
      Promes saved us From England as well in semi..
      Blind should play as back up for Virgil by merit..We have Jetro,Annholt,Winjdal and kongolo there..Jetro is supper attacker,Winjdal is equally tactically astsute like Blind..He might be young,but he is too consistent..

  6. Thanks Jan! Another great piece.

    I was able to see all of the U17 games except the last versus France.

    Hansen had a great tournament, no question. I’d seen him play as a winger in the Euros, but he really took off when he moved into the striker position. Two-footed, skilled, and didn’t miss his chances. Hope he continues to develop. Braaf, too, was a very impressive forward, his skills may top Hansen’s.

    Regeer was a revelation to me. I had not heard of him. It is so interesting to read the above about him; that he plays as a 10 at Ajax. He was the proverbial Swiss Army Knife for the team. His first game was as a replacement for Taylor as a holding mid. Then he replaced Bogarde as a CD, and didn’t look out of place defensively, and in the build up he was playing long balls out of the back, 30-40 yards on the dime. As Jan has been saying, the future is bright.

  8. @Wilson, yes El Ghazi is having a nice year for Villa. One thing I always liked about him is that he doesn’t seem to care who the opponent is; he is showing up to play.

    Re: your back and forth above about Blind’s relative worth going forward. I think it is a question of whether as a tactical matter a coach wants both fullbacks playing high up, both essentially positioning themselves as an extra body in attack. Seems to me that when Koeman plays Blind, he wants the right side fullback as another attacker up the pitch, but wants to leave Blind in a more cautious role, providing balance and allowing for a three man backline with the rb pushed forward, and choosing his moments to go forward. Such an approach means that at least one of the Mf’s (Frenkie, whoever is his partner on the day, and to a lesser extent Wijnaldum) have to be alert to drop back if/when Blind moves up, as does the right back, but it also has the advantage of potentially confusing the defense in that one of those same mf’s can lose a defender by making a deep run from the mf. (I’m thinking about how Frenkie came so free for the tying goal in the Germany win.)
    Assuming that Koeman sticks with Promes as the nominative right back, think of all the flexibility the team would have to interchange positions, and the ability to create confusion in the other team.

    If you go back to the 1998 team (probably The Netherlands’ best team all around team from the ’88 European Champions to the present), Hiddink had Numan bombing up on the left, while Reisinger played more cautiously on the right next to Stam and De Boer, coming forward when the opportunity presented itself, but allowing for at least a three person backline. Worked very well.

    There are things that people can say abut Blind, but they never question his ability to read a game. While you point to the Portugal game, there were a number of Oranje players who didn’t have their best match on that day. You can’t discount that Blind was involved in several of the goals in the France and Germany matches.

    1. Very fair analysis about Blind

      Having started to watch him since 2014, it’s no doubt he has a strong vision in reading the game . He’s not perfect but at the
      Moment there is really no one better

      Everyone let’s stop it from now to discuss further about how good / bad blind is , I think we had enough discussion about this .

      Van aanholt has also given a chance last week and I don’t see how much better he is overall

      Not until we have found someone new emerging in the Eredivisie , then again we can start the talk again

    2. I do remember Jan wrote the same thing in one of the previous blog as what you are have said. My argument is on the basis of modern day football and how playing with offensive fullbacks has become a proven success. Liverpool,City,Juventus,Bayern,France,Portgual,Brazil. I will agree it would be viable to play cautiously if it was a final but entire tournament, you simply cant do that. It can easily be susceptible especially in tournments where coaches study their oponents in every single game. Playing cautiously as you mentioned means inviting attack and on a day if you have wingers like sane,Gnabry sancho,douglas costa, sooner or later they will will crack it open.

      This is the part where its all becomes contradictory. If Dumfries is meant to play a high line then why he is been screwed for his recent outings This shows what you have said bout Blind forming a three man backline with dumfries moving up is totally crap. It should be de ligt who should be covering Dumfries isnt it. It makes no sense at all.Then comes veltman. How the hell is he suppose to play a high line when he keeps giving away useless fouls when outpaced. So can u indicate here whats happening to the backine when veltman starts. This things will get exposed come the final elimination stage and thats when it comes back to haunt the whole team.

      1. “”””””Playing cautiously as you mentioned means inviting attack and on a day if you have wingers like sane,Gnabry sancho,douglas costa, sooner or later they will will crack it open.”””””””””
        thats SCARY TRUTH..We all ready saw that against Spain and Brazil in WC2010..Wingback Bastos stayed back to contain Roben and Maicon was bombing as DIDNT VALUE KUYT at all..While Roben was well respected,Roben helped us to get many cards..While we were suffering on other wing..Same thing happend VS spain as well..in final..as A RESULT WE STILL DONT HAVE a WC..

      1. Eg Vs Big teams Blind will stay back(Koeman will play Blind only)…That means left flank is done..
        Dumfries can move up and down he has the pace and physique..But He is a Joker when it come to pass or anything…Some what like kuyt kind of guy in final third..Every movemnet will end with Dumfries..We cannot afford both Blind and dumfries together..
        Promes can dribble,he has double work rate of kuyt,Promes can pass,Promes can score,Promes can defend…So Blind can stay back as 3 rd defender..
        —Malen————Stengs
        ———–Depay———–
        Gini–frenkie–Deroon—Promes
        —-Blind—Virgil—-Deligt——–
        ———Cillessen—————
        or babel could play for malen..
        this is not my line up..its koeman one mostly..

        1. Stengs has the tendency to cut in from the right so I guess promes could be an ideal option overlapping from the FB. But defensively with it remains to be seen how good he can be under pressure.but then again you are inviting attack on the left and with a tactical coach he will expose that area. This is exactly what santos did in the national league final.

  10. Guys please , this is really getting a little bit too boring

    As I said , at this moment can you find anyone else who’s better than blind ? Yes? If no list leave it then

    After all , this is Jan’s board . Learn to give some respect and how to behave a bit humble . You don’t get a reward of cash for winning your argument

    Just let go mate

  11. * just leave it then

    There is no right or absolute wrong on these arguments . I think everyone has express enough of their opinion .

    If you still want to waste your time writing about blind , I would suggest you to go on Ronald Koeman’s Facebook or twitter and leave your valuable comment there so that he can actually read it !

  12. Big weekend for ajax and psv and alkmar coming. Ajax need win if chelsea win against valencia ajac can easily go to next round. Play against lille in france is very hard. Both valencia and chelsea played hard game in their pitch.
    Alkmar also has hard game against partizan. With a draw alkmar can go to next round. They have to avoid lose if they want to go to next round. Psv is last team which had to play against sporting in portugal. Very very hard game and also too important. If psv win they can reach to next round if they draw they can go too next round with a little luck but i hope they win.

    1. Yes I’m. ik looking forwqrd to watch all these games

      And I’m optimistic to see all the three teams going through .

      Feyenoord however let’s see if any miracle will happen

  13. I watched that semi-final game vs. Mexico. I’m glad you wrote an article about it. I didn’t watch any of their other games. That free kick was the most blatant call by the referee. However, free kicks can be defended and if you look at the replay #3 in the Oranje wall (Bogarde) did not even bother to jump and the ball curved over his head. Skip to the 1:14 mark in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=NXKHJgo0Tpw

    When the game went to penalties, I had a gut feeling that it was deja vu all over again. Why do Dutch teams choke when it comes to penalties? A lot of games will be decided on penalties. They should practice taking penalties just as importantly as they practice everything else. The only penalty shootout I can remember we did well was the one in the 2014 when Van Gaal took out Clissen who is useless when it comes to saving penalties. I still remember France 98 and Euro 2000 like it was yesterday. In football as it is in life, you have to be ruthless. You have to be mentally strong and confident you can beat your opponent. Penalties to me are about mental strength more than kicking a ball.

  15. Personally, I like strikers to be between 183 – 188 (6’0 – 6’2). Just like Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Van Basten or Brazilian Ronaldo. The taller you get from there, the slower or less nimble they get.

    Short strikers will have a disadvantage in terms of aerial challenges and physically holding up the ball but then again players like Romario are so talented, they are on a different world. Aguero has no problem scoring goals.

    Tall players like Giroud, Luke de Jong etc just add depth to a squad and offer a Plan C to managers. Sometimes in crucial or elimination games where you have a stubborn unmovable opponent logging up all the space and are parking all 11 players in the box, you may throw in those giraffes as a Hail Mary desperation option to get you goals from set pieces or crosses into the box.

    My point is that if you are short, you better be very talented. A tall player who is not talented can survive or find a job somewhere. But a short player who is not talented will offer no options.

    I don’t think Depay and Promes are on Aguero’s or Mbappe’s level but Depay is still a great player when he is on his game. Let’s hope the others you mentioned achieve a higher ceiling than Depay and Promes.

    1. Van persie ,Brazilian ronaldo were drbbling masters at that 62 height..Van basten and RVN were foxy dribblers to look at RVN goal from center to run past with ball and shoots goal..I MEANT IT IN that way..Neither Dood bsat,neither kuyt,nor Luuk,kevin kunrayi,jan vengoor offhailink cannot do it…
      Thats what i meant..
      With Shadow striker MERCURIOUS like vaart we could have burried spain AT 2010
      –RVP——–Roben–
      ——-Vaart—————-
      with RVN WE Could have finished Portugal as well…

  16. Lokomotive lose tonight it is very important for errdivise as russian league get negative points. I hope zenit and benfica tomorrow cannot win in their games. Russian teams r not in good mode except zenit. It can be too good for us if zenit lose to lyon to tomorrow.
    Also club bruge get a draw tonight which means belgian team r in problem too. Club bruge last game is against real madrid. Beligian has another team which play tomorrow.
    I think portugal would get 6 for next year russia will be 7 netherlands can get 8 and belgume would down to 9. just hope we have get 7 pionts at least in this week.

  17. Yea right !! I’m wondering if all the three Dutch teams go or the knockout stages how we will look like in the coefficient ranking .

    Let’s hope all these Russian Belgium teams lose tonight lol! ( and Portuguese !)

      1. Schuurs was Execellent Andrew,You have been called in to pressure match as youngster with out so called Blind and Veltman..Delivered amazingly…
        Noa lang knew ts matter of time,Van de beek was pretty Good as well…Zyiehc leaves next year and Noa will start from that feel..

        1. I dont think it was a pressure match even though it was on big stage.Lille had high profile departures last summer and are no where near to the form they were in last season.they are regrouping with fresh young talents brought in to replace the high profile departures. Pretty even match though.the forwards made the difference.

          1. Draw would have kept Ajax in trouble.it was away game..it is CL not a small compettion. Chelsea is supported by refree and uefa..
            Ajax must beat every time refree first before they beat the real team when they face Uefalona,Real shitrid,plastic chelsiki, etc…So fingers crossed for me..

          2. Lille are currently 10th in Ligue 1 and that tells everything about them. You think ajax would have dropped points against them.

  19. Great result for ajax and dutch football.

    Moving forward I think ajax needs to learn how to defend/maintain an advantage by holding on to the ball and not attacking continuously. There’s a tendency that teams playing similar to the ajax style don’t know how to defend.
    Look what happened to River Plate during the final of the Copa Libertadores.

    If Ajax can solve this problem, they’ll be scary to watch

      1. Lang has definitely proven he is ready for first team football and was in thick of things in attack with his trade mark runs. I really think this guy can be the next sneijder. Midfielder/wing typo. Bit hesitant though but I think with more games he is definitely going to become main stay at Ajax.

        Schuur was solid as well,like Lang he too might have to wait for the dead woods to be cleared before he can get his run regularly. Great outings and totally agree with gio

  20. Tahith chong will be starting on the right winger side , which is his ideal position

    I guess this is his last chance if he still hasn’t anything to show us tonight then bye bye

    1. Spent $3 to watch this turd. Awful defense errors and no offense. This much hyped Idrissi has been horrible. Every attack ends with him. I really regret buying this game. Stengs and Boadu have not touched the ball. It’s odd

      1. Stengs and Boadu are both horrible too, Boadu kept losing the ball when he backs down the defender, Stengs can’t do anything when pressed hard by the opponent. Koopmeirs was simply the worst, the 2nd goal was his and Bizot’s fault. I don’t think any AZ player deserve a spot in the national team yet. Only a bit of harder pressing, they all failed. Wijndal was horrible too, can’t even control the ball or send in a good pass. This AZ reminds me of the Ajax back in De Boer days when they play in Europe. A lot of possession, very static, opponent just needs to wait for one failed pass to start a counter and score a goal. No creativity at all from AZ’s midfield. This is what happened when you have a running number 10 like De Wit, you just cannot creat much.

        1. Also, Slot does not seem to be a special coach, unless he can change something in the 2nd half. This is simply horrible to watch. AZ needs better center back as well.It’s been there weak point for a while after Vlaar is out. Bizot’s can be our 3rd GK as best, disappointing as well.

  24. AZ are such trash. Even Feyenoord is putting up a fight. I can’t believe how much hype this team and its players have received.

    Dutch teams just continuously let us down. What can you do

  25. Mindset is not there. I believe AZ was too confident that over-wintering was a done deal. Arne Sot should have done a better job at setting the mind of players. It is a great lesson learned for inexperienced but talented team like AZ

    1. Ref was horrible today, a lot of bad calls, Partizan was able to use this to play super physical, which is to their advantage since AZ is a very young team. Suprising good result though, but definitely a poor performance to reflect on.AZ simply needs to be tough when facing physical teams. Hopefully they play better against Man U away and also in the knock out round. First dutch team through europe group stage。

      1. Stengs, Boadu, Koopmeirs, Wijndal, these four talents all played pretty bad, needs to up their game. Idrissi at least was trying to create something and worked hard, though not very efficient. Druif should get some credit, definitely change the game after he came on. AZ simply just needs to play more direct when facing defensive teams like Partizan instead of focusing too much on slow build up. Honestly, they are lucky that they did not concede 3 or 4 goals today.

  35. @az forever
    Happy for u and ur team. When u play with a team with 11 defender and using encointer it is always hard to do anything. If az equalise it means they have good spirit to fight till 90+10 mins.
    They r too young so getting angry from opponent in a match like this is not far from my opinion.

  36. I cannot undrestnad many guys here. Barcelona draw with prage. Real madrid draw with club bruge. Salzburg score 3 goal against liverpool.
    I mean no one say messi have to go to barcelona B team because he was not play good in granada game or praga. Or liverpool player had to go to due because salzburg score 3 goal in 30 mins.
    This is football u never win all game and u cannot predict everytime eveything. If u dint lose in a game like this it means u r really good even if u dont play good.
    5 or 6 Az player r in 18 to 21. If u think u have 6 messi u r wrong. U have to wait to see their improvement.
    Boadue and steng and koopmeniers show their value before u canbot judge them in 1 game

  37. Ajax give us 0.6 points this week. Alkmar give us 0.2 point and also feyenoord give us 0.2 point. It looks we get 1 point and totally 8.6 points. It is really good.
    I know psv will lose tonight.
    The most important thing is alkmar go to next round and they would play more and more games in europe which is good for their experence and also good for our coefinient.

  39. Hadzisiakos got very serious injury which means Koopmeiners will be playing now as a central defender and Clasie will get a chance to play as a controlling defender.

    1. He is not a starting level player for AZ to be honest. AZ needs Vlaar back and get some center back reinforcement in the winter if they want to go far. This is definitely their weak point now.If Koopmeiners made the same mistake as he made today but at the CB position, AZ would concede way more goals. And this is not his optimal position any way. AZ has been needing a CB since last season, but the question is are they willing to spend some money to reinforce. Even though AZ has some interesting talents coming through but does not look like there are any at the CB position. Maybe Maxim Guilit after one or two years and that’s it. It’s unfortunate that AZ’s major talent here Justin De Haas chose to leave for PSV last summer. It could have been his chance this year.

      1. Actually, Hadzisiakos has dramatically improved compared to last year. His average score in eredivisie game has been around 7.2/10. I agree that he is not a starting level player yet but his progress is very evident. Central defense is a weak point of AZ but this year aggressive pressure during ball loss made it less vulnerable.

        1. Maybe in Eredivisie it is ok. But this defence in even European cup level is not enough. If Partizan can take their chances, it could have been 3 or 4 zero already.

  40. Wow, what a new low for PSV.Just how long do they wait till they sack Van Bommel…..Their recent form is just so bad.The team’s defense is so unorganized and players lack concerntration. You can’t win any games with this kind of defensive performance. Offensively, just so many misconnected pass, and when they do create, PSV can’t take their chances. Bruno Fernandes is just too many levels above other players, not sure if Malen Bergwijn or Ihattern can get to his level one day. These three just do not have the personal quality to change game play at this level. And look how Bruno Fernandes dictate the game.

  42. Also, I think we have a huge coaching gap for some time now. Most of the new generation Dutch coaches failed pretty bad. De Boer, Cocu, Van Bommel, Van Bronckhost, Stam, Keizer, and the list goes on. Ten Hag, Koeman might be the only two good coaches we have. Bosz might be decent, Arne Slot is still a question mark. This kind of affect the growth of our youth talents abroad. We just do not have a lot of coaching influence abraod to help these young players grow and bring more of them out of the Eredivisie.

  43. I was in for AZ, i felt sorry after red card then i stopped watching….But when i woke i heard the glad news.i was happy..
    AZ was Boring in first half,i would say cautious game..Never looked like ajax threatening the opponents..little shocked to see idrissi,stengs and Baodu in that..may whole team was playing fro draw from begining..
    they had errors at defense..Communication was lost between bizot and defense..Bizot looked confused,every time he was coming with half hearted…He got punished He should have stayed on line then he could have saved both goals..He needs some one who point outs his fault..
    koopmeiners made mistake yes..it happens with every one..
    AZ need a better defense thats it..rest are okay..
    De wit is like kuyt nothing less nothing more..No need to SHi@#t on De wit for the guys who supported kuyt at orange..They have no rights to Sh##t on De wit..if kuyt can be bared in NT,De wit can be bared at AZ…thats the logic..

  44. Why psv lose like it?? Sporting is 3rd portugal team. Psv can lose 1-0 or 2-1 but 4-0?? It looks no one belive in them. They comfuse me. Also feyenoord playe better game than them in last two european game. Psv looks a loser team from begining. Ihatteren malen bergwijn rosario what happened??
    Psv win 3-2 against sporting in the first game. What is change?? I cannot undrestand. The same player and then they trashed u?? How ?? Sad too see van bommle on this form.

    1. Sporting is actually No.4 in Portugal.PSV’s recent form is just horrible. I think Malen and Bergwijn’s injury affect the team’s rhythm but Van Bommel also lost the control of the team. He is just clueless. PSV’s defense looks so shaky in recent games. Look at their recent result then you would not be surprised by this result anymore. 1:2 Willem II, 1:4 LASK Linz,2：2 Sparta,0:4 AZ, 0：0 LASK Linz, 0:3 Utrecht. If you look at these results, PSV looks like a team fighting in the relegation battle. Would you be surprised that Sporting beat a team in the Eredivisie that’s fighting a relegation battle by 4:0? The PSV now and the PSV at the beginning of the season are performing like two entirely different level team.

  45. I have been always a fan of Ferdy Druijf. If he gets enough playing time, he will start scoring. As Myron is going to be suspended for the game against MU, I hope Ferdy will get a chance to play 90 minutes. Very powerful player. I have to confess, in my AZ there are two players whom I favor more than anybody else: Ferdy and Teun!

  46. The current top-15 of the UEFA ranking:
    1. Spain 94,855 (11,500)
    2. England 83,462 (11,571)
    3. Germany 66,784 (10,714)
    4. Italy 64,082 (8,357)
    5. France 54,415 (6,833)
    6. Portugal 47,249 (8,100)
    7. Russia 45,216 (4,333)
    8. Belgium 36,900 (6,600)
    9. NETHERLANDS 34,950 (8,600)
    10. Ukraine 33,300 (4,400)
    11. Turkey 32,400 (3,800)
    12. Austria 31,525 (4,400)
    13. Denmark 27,500 (3,375)
    14. Czech Republic 27,300 (2,500)
    15. Scotland 26,375 (8,250)
    (By the way the score of this season)

    https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/905691/nederland-net-iets-beter-dan-europese-achtervolgers-ajax-bonus-achter-de-hand.html

    1. Oh tnx Yan.
      So it is too important to win against valencia because of its bonus.
      But it is intersting to know 8.6 point is same with last year (ajax reach semi final). So it show how az psv and feynoord job is important in europe league.
      I hope az get point from man utd. Ajax beat valenica also psv win in last game. Because psv can earn us another 0.2 point.
      Shakhtar dentsk with atalanta is too important for us as we have to with best for atalanta

    1. Toonstra is most underrated..He should have been a regular for orange from 2014 to 2016 at least…SHit selection by Blind and hiddink..
      Now he has compettion from propper,Dejong,Debeek and vilhena..its tough for him..

  49. Pantelis Hatzidiakos is out for the entire season due to severe knee injury. Poor guy, he was just getting up to speed and now this bummer. This means that Teun Koopmeiners will take a place in a central defense and Jordy Clasie will be playing as a controlling midfielder.

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