In the last 10 years or so, Holland has had its fair share of good games vs France. With ex international Wes Sneijder’s masterclass from 2008 as the ultimate. But the 4-0 thrashing from last year is probably the best remembered and a strong reminder it is.
At home, we almost drew. A Stekelenburg error, a Memphis late miss, we almost got a result. Away from home, we lost with a decent 2-0 scoreline but Dick Advocaat forgot to think about the goal difference and set us up for a dreadful loss with two late goals conceded.
Ronald Koeman is positive this time around. “I can see strong improvements in our team. We know what we need to do more and more and better and better. The second half performance vs Peru was actually pretty good. Against a team that hardly gives anything away. I am pleased.”
The whole Oranje camp was quite buoyant about the meeting with the French. Maybe some Dutch courage after the Sneijder party? When Memphis was asked about Sunday’s opposition and the talk about world class players, he shrugged: “We have world class players too,” pointing at Virgil van Dijk.
De Ligt was as positive. “We are going there to compete. Being afraid or overly cautious is not who we are. We need to play focused and compact and we will get our chances.”
Virgil van Dijk: “We always get chances. I think we have learned from past mistakes and we will take the game as it comes.”
Still, a lot of critical questions about Strootman/Wijnaldum in the engine room. Koeman: “I know, it is hard. Oranje is different for them. At their club, they play with different players, have different roles, much more automatisms… I had these periods myself as well. You need to switch and it’s not always easy.” This seems to open the door for a starting spot for Propper and Frenkie de Jong. Koeman: “Hey, I understand everyone like Frenkie and he did really well, it’s quite good to see a player make his debut and play as if he’s been playing his 30est cap but lets just see how we go.”
About France: “They will play like they did in the World Cup. It worked for them, they got their result. So they will play compact, with tactical discipline and break when they can. Boy can they break. We can’t give away too much space and have to be really alert, while creating something when we can. Because we will get chances.”
Questions about Daley Blind, in particular with Mbappe as potential opponent. “Daley didn’t have a good game. It happens. We have all been there. Every player with 40+ caps is entitled to a lousy game and I love it when it does happen in friendlies and not in real matches. I do think Daley can handle MBappe. He handled fast players before, when at Man United. I remember Mahrez not getting anything against Blind. But Van Aanholt is an option too. Patrick was absent on Thursday due to his sister’s wedding. However, if Jan Vertonghen can handle Mbappe, so can Daley.”
Wesley Sneijder made a strong symbolical gesture last Thursday, after the Peru game. He gave his #10 jersey to Memphis. Depay: “I do enjoy the support and confidence the players and the coach have in me. But I will just be and remain myself. We are building a wonderful new team and we will need to carry the team together. I will not be able to do it alone nor will I even attempt it alone. I am just one of the team and with my specific skills, I can help the team. But we have tremendous players, like Van Dijk, Cillesen, Blind, Wijnaldum and some amazing youngsters coming up like Mathijs and Frenkie and Donnie. The future is bright.”
Asked about his role in the team… “We do play 4-3-3 on paper but we have different ways of expressing ourselves. It’s fluid. Like it is with Lyon. At Manchester, I was bound to specific tasks and that is not how I play. I can play in different systems, but what I am not, is a firm left winger, tied to the line or a target man #9 like Van Nistelrooy or Janssen or Luuk. I need to be able to float, the freedom works for me. And I can create danger. I could use the space in the second half vs Peru. The first goal was a typical striker’s goal. Midfield takes possession and has the killer pass for me in behind. But the second goal I set up. From our own half, I had the pre-assist as well.”
The symbolism seen by the fans and the analysts was different though. Playmaker Wesley went, playmaker Frenkie came.
Holland lacked football in the first half vs Peru and Koeman rectified it by bringing Propper and Frenkie de Jong. The latter playing in the #6 role, a role he scoffed at some while back. When the midfielder was signed by Ajax, his coach Jurgen Streppel said the following in 2016: “Frenkie is the type of player who can take on an opponent and create the man more situation. He has a very short swivel and eyes in his back. I think he has a great future ahead of him. He can also play on the wing, but my suggestion would be: the number 6. The controlling mid.” Frenkie de Jong himself was surprised: “Did he say that? I always played on #10 my whole life. I am not sure if Streppel understands the game.”
Harsh words, and words Frenkie will have to eat. Because he is at his best playing behind the ball. At young Ajax, he played as #10. Marcel Keizer actually used him like this but then dropped him two lines back the central back role, where he could get involved with the build up. Now, he’s one of the two controlling mids at Ajax, but his role is basically similar, to the two roles before. He’ll play the central back, the holding mid and the playmaker in one.
He’s got some exquisite skills. Like dribbling. Usually, players in the mid holding role are great passers. There are not a lot of great dribblers playing there and Frenkie does do that ever so well. Both passing and dribbling. We used to have the likes of Van Bommel, Cocu, Jan Wouters, Wim Jansen and more recently Strootman, De Roon…good passers. Not so good in dribbling. I can only think of Moussa Dembele of Spurs and Modric of Real Madrid. Even Busquets is not much of a dribbler.
Making the play. Frenkie is in charge of the rhythm of the play. Usually has the exact right forward pass, the right decision. He is the bridge between defence and attack. And he is one of the few who can find the players in front of him, in between the lines, with the proper pass. At Ajax, there are many players playing there (Dolberg. Van de Beek, Ziyech, Tadic, Neres) but not a lot able to play that pass. And De Jong is not playing like the mailman, as Vilhena did when he was younger, or Hendrix of PSV.
Some comparisons:
Frenkie compared to his rivals:
| Frenkie de Jong (Ajax) | Jorrit Hendrix (PSV) | Tonny Vilhena (Feyenoord) | Sergio Busquets (Barcelona) | Toni Kroos (Real Madrid) | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| League games | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 |
| Minutes played | 258 | 360 | 360 | 251 | 270 |
| Goals | – | 1 | 1 | – | – |
| Assists | – | 1 | – | – | – |
| Chances created | 3 | 3 | 6 | 5 | 4 |
| Shots | 1 | 7 | 5 | 0 | 4 |
| Yield | – | 14,29 % | 20 % | – | – |
| PASSING | |||||
| # of passess | 235 | 222 | 191 | 198 | 333 |
| On opponent half | 148 | 134 | 114 | 138 | 201 |
| Ending op in final third | 53 | 44 | 51 | 48 | 75 |
| Success % passes | 90,21 % | 84,68 % | 86,91 % | 87,37 % | 96,7 % |
| Succespercentage passes opponent half | 86,91 % | 79,1 % | 82,46 % | 84,78 % | 96,02 % |
| # dribbles | 7 | 5 | 6 | – | 3 |
| # successsful dribbles | 7 | 4 | 3 | – | 3 |
Frenkie’s value won’t be defined in number of goals or even number of assists. It’s the pre-assist that will be Frenkie’s domain.
The comparison with Tony Kroos is interesting, like De Jong, the midfield captain of Real Madrid drops back into the defensive zone to pick up the ball. But where Kroos passes – and passes incredibly accurate – Frenkie can pass and dribble.
Against Peru, 97% of his passing was accurate and he hardly had any loss of possession. He will have to do the same vs France, as the Cocq’s will punish you if your pass doesn’t reach the target. Will Frenkie’s passing be able to surprise N’Golo Kante? We’ll see…
Your views guys?
What will it be?
I personally think we’ll win the match, 0-2. I think France will not be playing their top football after their successful WC campaign. They will probably not take the Nations League too seriously. I also think they’ll be complacent.
Frenkie will play a great game for us and Memphis and Kluivert will find the net.
Even if dutch loose all the 4 games, it still will be a stepping stone for koeman and also the players. The french pretty much have the same squad as from the WC and I cant see them playing with WC hangover if any. Caught the highlights of the france and germany game and both teams resorted to the flanks as the midfield was pretty tight. If the gaps start to open up in NT midfield im afraid it will be a thrashing. Germany started with Kimmch and Kroos in the central midfield and were effective in containing probga and kante from feeding those through balls up front. This has to be the order of the day for NT
Depay- Promes
Van Anni-Frenkie- Vilhnea- janmaat
De Ligt
Ake- Van dijk – De Vrij
Cillessen
Or it high time koeman just go with Ake in the midfield.
Koeman went with Vilhnea at Wingback, vormer as winger so why not ake. Ake could well play as a rover linking with both forwards and as well the backline.
Jan, I love your prediction 0-2 and I believe in your predictions 🙂 I have a good feeling about the game too, I will pray we win this even though it seems to be hard!!! starting it with a win against France in Paris would really give a huge boost of confidence that’s so much needed and will have a magic effect on these young players! A win today will be a new start for oranje, will be the game that puts us back on track with big nations!!!
Jan, For World Cup 2010 I remember ur predictions for it, u kept it saying we will win the World Cup and I used to think you were very optimistic but you proved me wrong and we almost got close to lifting that cup until the minute 117 against Spain 😏!!!!
I am hoping for a great result today 🙏🙏🙏
Hahaha I remember
Koeman says in this article if vertonghen can handle mbappe so can blind. Is koeman joking
Vertoghen is faster..he is physically so strong…so he was just okay vs mbhappe…i have seen Blind gets schooled very often…
How many lousy games he has played so far???too much..he plays 1 good matche in 10 games…End of the story….
We can understand that if we dont have class defenders
HAHAHAHA
Koeman is playing Blind again at Centre Back.
Don’t troll, Ramy.
Im all for Blind. Some of the usual suspects here wont be too happy with the selection though.
As usually somebody has to make a terrible defensive mistake. THis time Promes decided to “fill the gap”.
Off the ball movement both on defense and offense is quite atrocious
First I see Frankie De Jong. I really like him
Not feeling the Babel and Promes combo
Tete is atrocious today. no balls whatsoever.
We’re like molasses on the counter
1. Promes and Tete are very poor today.
2. If not that mistake, defensively we play OK.
3. Offensively are absolutely powerless.
Agree with all 3 points.
Blind completely lost Mbappe which gave him an open net to tap the ball in. He almost conceded a penalty to Mbappe on a different occasion. Honestly, I just don’t know what Koeman sees in him. He better score to redeem himself.
Frenkie looks comfortable on the ball. I like his dribbling and taking charge in midfield but the forwards are wasting his passes
Areola might as well take a bathroom break. French defense has been watertight so far in the 1st half.
You can tell that we are VERY afraid of France. That fear paralyzes players’ creativity.
So how can we make the next Euros? I don’t get this tormurnament style yet.
Please, red Jan’s previous post. He explains it. Cup of Nations does not replace Euro Qualifications.
Just looked at how French scored, it started actually with Blind’s mistake.
Once again Jan‘s prediction is very naive and over optimistic， let’s face it, we are at least one tier below France at this moment，not just individual quality wise， but the overall system is a failure compared to France，too much space in between each lines and no team chemistry at all， I would rather see Van Marvik back coaching the national team and play a very defensive style than watching this Koeman‘s team with no focus and no system what so ever. So far we still can not get our set piece defense right，what a joke
It‘s. crazy how fast we lose the ball after we win the ball back
Agree, I do not see any chemistry between players. There is no connectivity.
Actually we need someone to boss the midfield. That was supposed to be strootman but his level is not where it was supposed to be
Three standing Dutch players still lots the ball to a laying on the ground French player!!!!!
French players get foul calls so much easier
Miss of the game for Wijnaldum
Gooooooooooooooooooal!!!!!!
Superb placement by Tete.
Babel finally scores. Whew.
Growing into the game. 2 good chances and the goal
Amazing play Tete- Babel!!!!!!!!!!!
Memphis wake up already!!!
We will see a real France now.
yup big test now
As i said it… 🙁
Van Dijk is brilliant. Giroud scored a beauty.
Wow.
Van Dijk is to blame for that! Every time a cross is delivered in the box your job as a defender is to attack every single ball. Virgil took his time and we paid for it.
Cillessen should have done better also.
What is Tete doing turning like that !! Seriously man.
No wonder he is not even selected for Lyon…
That was expected…
Of course. Vormer.
Vormer?! Someone needs to explain to me why Koeman is in love with this 30-year-old (during a rebuilding period) and why he subs him now a goal down. Makes no sense to me.
Are we going to see any substitution?
We can’t match France, they’re world champions. They know when to turn the screw. It’s man vs boys. Even our most experienced players are prone to basic mistakes. Look at Van Dijk when Giroud scores. Wijnaldum right after the 1st french goal when it was easy to pass to Babel who was alone with the keeper and he makes a mess. Second chance was even worse. We still play with Babel even though he scored a very good goal. In any case I am glad to see Holland play a competitive game again after such a long time.
This team really lacks pace, dribbling and muscle. Van Dijk is muscle but no one else.
They lack courage, class, pace and muscle.
Why “they”? It’s us, Ramy. And if it’s not “us” for you, why are you here?
What a stupid useless comment. Yes THEY. The players. Im not playing, Im supporting them.
However poor Eredivisie can be I refuse to believe that Babel, Luuk de Jong and Depay are the only players who can play in attack. Koeman just like Blind before him wants to play it safe. He won’t get far. Not much has changed.
Agreed. Koeman doesn’t seem to have the vision to rebuild. We can’t build the next great team out of Vormers.
1- i don’t agree with this line up today whatsoever. It brews fear and confusion, players bumping into each other, players shooting at each other…
Its ridiculous. We have very good defenders. Let them do the job. 9-10 players behind the ball is not the answer.
2- We need to sort out the wing backs situation. We cant keep changing them every month. They need to emerge. Janmaat and Vilhena should maybe start in a 3-4-3 configuration.
3- we need to give Kluivert a chance to grow, just like were giving Frenkie De Jong a chance. Vormer and Luuk De Jong are not the answer for the Netherlands. I understand Babel, he’s been very clinical for Besiktas. But Vormer?
4- i dont agree with the mentality either. Always afraid to come out and play, always cagey, always second to the ball..
ON a positive note:
1. I expected much worse game. Losing 2:1 to WC-winners is not a sin. It is huge psychological burden and I think Oranje did well in Paris taking into account a reality of our current team
2. I think we have improved in not giving away too much space. I at least saw only once we we gave away too much space.
3. I believe Strootman permanently lost his place to De Jong. Good player but lack physical strength too. Hoever, his play forward is encouraging.
Nevertheless, there are still opportunities for improvement. WE MUST PLAY SPEEDY. As soon as we started playing at higher speed, we scored. I agree with the above-mentioned statement that Speed and Physical strength are the largest weakness of our team.
Meanwhile, this game should give some confidence for our players. I think Koeman is going to gradually improve the team.
Let’s see…
On the bright side, Frenkie De Jong is a future star in the making, there is a reason why Ajax did not sell him at even 50 million Euro, his price can go even higher if he plays at this level constantly in UEFA. Now we have at least world level star or world level star in the making. We need to figure out how to build our forward line around Depay， Midfield around Frenkie De Jong, back line with Van Dijk and De Ligt. I would say De Vrij is world level too but Koeman seems to keep on mistrusting Blind. I can see Ake has the potential to be world level if he can improve his offense. It seems Koeman prefers to play 3-4-3. With Cillissen locked down the GK spot, and Depay, Freekie De Jong, Van Dijk, De Ligt, Ake/De Vrij should all be given a starting place in the first 11. There really should be only 5 more spots for Koeman to test and we need to figure out a bench of at least 5-6 players that can offer something different when coming off the bench. I really hope Koeman can stop testing the aforementioned players’s position. Especially no more Blind at CB in front of De Vrij/ Ake. Just don’t waste your time there. I would not even have an issue with Koeman trying Blind at the LMF spot but just not CB please. We have way more talent at CB spot.
Playing Blind at starting CB is a sin, when Kongolo, Hoedt, Rekik, Gouweleeuw can not even make the team. These players can all do better than Blind at the CB spot.
Ok, so….
Negatives
– 1st half barely even competed
– Depay needs more help, really we miss a central striker.
– I still think the two other midfield positions are up for grabs (played by Propper and Wiljnaldum tonight)
– would have liked to have seen changes sooner from Koeman. Where was Kluivert? This is something I like about Mourinho. If he sees its wrong, he changes it, and he doesn’t wait till the 80th minute either.
– Promes.
Positives
– Frenkie. Felt sorry for him in the 1st half as he was trying to make the play, but like the little kid kicking the ball at the back of the school shed on his own, he had nobody to play with!
– Blind, ok first half he was awful. But if we can find a way to play a system whereby he gets higher up the pitch his crossing and link play is a weapon
– Van Dijk, could have done better on the goal, but overall he and de Ligt did well
For me, now we need to introduce Van de Beek into the midfield. Kluivert for Promes. I’d like to see Strootman, and Luuk de Jong completely removed from the next squad selection and more room made to the youngsters.
Much better than last year, although I still felt we lacked an obvious attacking plan for much of the game. Once we started playing we looked good so we should take good heart from that knowing that we can compete at the top table. But to compete we must be brave in our attacking play, and braver in our team selections, and more aggressive with our subs when things aren’t going well.
Sorry, I should clarify that I though that Blind second half going forward offered a lot more.
He can compete for the LMF spot with Van Aanholt in the 3-4-3 system, but I would like to see more of Van Aanholt at that spot first. Just no Blind at CB for god‘s sake. Currently I do not see a solution at the central striker position, Depay at the 9 is probably the best we can do. Unless Vincent Jansen can get healthy again or Locadia can get some playing time and score some goals. Others like Luuk De Jong, Weghorst are clearly not the answer for starting 11. We need a little bit of heading ability at the front line.
Yes, he made a couple of crosses in the second half but based on overall performance, I strongly believe he is a drag on the team. I have nothing against him. I just believe that he needs to regain his form and shouldn’t be selected based on name recognition alone.
I doubt van Anholt or Ake would do worse that him if they started at LB today.
Frenkie and De Ligt both look like automatic starters if they can keep up their form and continue developing. Hopefully, Ajax can hang on in the CL so they get quality experience and exposure to football at the top level.
Clissen needs to move away from Barca. He needs regular playing time.
Overall, the team played better than that 4-0 game at the WC qualification. The second half was much better and they showed initiative and drive to get the equalizer. Koeman’s substitutions were all non-factors today. Vormer, Janmat, and Luuk de Jong came on too late and changed nothing. There is still a long way to go before Oranje can be considered a legitimate contender. Hopefully, they do a better job against Germany in the next game.
Formation wise, I think Koeman might have found the answer. Play 3-4-3 when attacking and 3-5-2 or even 3-6-1 when defending. However, we need to play more aggressive and compact. Our midfield and back line still can not connect in a lot of situations and we need to be more aggressive when we are without the ball, we leave the opponent too much space in this game. With this current situation, it’s important to have at least one forward in the front line who can drop back to the midfield to help out on defense and who has the lungs to run and switch to the winger spot. It seems Gini is probably the only player who can do that in our current talent pool so he might need a place in the first 11 as well. To sum up, the current starting 11 should look like this.
Wijnaldum- Depay- Winger/CF
LMF Frenkie De Jong CMF RMF
Ake/De Vrij Van Dijk De Ligt
Cilliseen
For winger/CF spot we have Babel (who seems to be doing ok but he is getting old) Promes, Kluivert, Bergwijn, Berghuis, Locadia(if he can get some playing time), Vincent Janseen(If he can get healthy again and get back to his level) El Ghazi(if he can be more consistent) Boadu(if he can keep on maturing and improving at this current speed)
LMF we have Van Aanholt, Blind, maybe Williems, Vilhena, Brenet, Haps(when back to fitness)
For the other CMF we have Van De Beek, Propper, Strootman, Klassen, De Roon, Vormer, Hendrix, Til, Van Ginkel(if he can get back to fitness),
RMF we have Janmaat, Tete, Hateboer, Karsdorp
Fosu Mensah, Dumfries
For the bench we need some player who can offer something different like maybe Weghorst (heading ability)
Koeman said in his interview that he was angry at some players for nor realizing the moments. I am wondering which moments he was talking about? Dutch had one real moment and they scored the goal.
Pieter Zwart , vi.nl analyst, gives very nice analysis of the weakest spot of Oranje: right flank. The analyst clearly shows how passive backwards playing of Tete and Promes’ unwillingness to play defensively basically disabled the right flank. I do not want to cut and paste that article here as Jan will most likely leverage that article in his analysis 🙂
I see a lot negative comments but honestly even though I am sad that we lost a point today but overall this was a positive game!!!
Cillissen, de Ligt, van dijk, Frenkie de Jong, wijnaldum, depay and propper should all start next time too because they all had a good game (even though ciliissen and can dijk messed up on the second goal for France)
Frenkie what a beauty to the eyes:) he is amazing, there was one run he did in the second half where he was going all the field up, he is very confident!!
Wijnaldum looked much better without strootman next to him!! Strootman was a very negative presence in this team, I am glad that finally Koeman figured this out after danni blind, hiddink and koeman always used him and in every game he was making a big mistake that led to a disaster( his stupid mistake in the first game against Sweden that led to Sweden goal is an example)!!
This team lacks power and quality upfront, did u guys think today that if we had robben upfront with depay we would’ve destroyed France in the second half???
My hope now is for Justin not to get lost in serie A and then having him pair with depay upfront with Frenkie wijnaldum and proper in midfield and the defense should be good with the amazing defenders we have!!!
Damn it all we needed was the tie today would’ve been huge boost 😩😩😩!!! This team just needs a couple of good results and the fear will be gone! Did u see today how they played much better after Babel scored they just need to believe in themselves a little bit!!!
I think today was really quite positive other than the lack of a real attacking threat, which is frustrating. I really would have liked to see Kluivert— he may not be the answer man for sure yet, but it’s way more likely that he’s part of the attacking future than either Babel or Vormer. To me their minutes are a waste, though of course Babel’s goal was much needed.
On issue I have with some of these comments- in my mind, as a life long defender, there’s nothing more that Virgil could have done on that second goal. He didn’t give Giroud a half yard, but maybe a half a foot. He hit it perfectly and with a surprising amount of power given the pressure he was under. That’s just a great goal by a great striker, not a knock against VvD or Cillesen.
I think we have a real team starting to firm up here.
i THINK we need to take a note on Virgil too..He has complacent moments in every game.Some time he gets punished,some times he escapes somehow.
He do concedes at vital moments..
Daley Blind can offer a lot better than Promes and luuk dejong upfront..Blind is the new kuyt it seems,playing where he doesnt belong to…
this needs to be addressed..
Goodbye to strootman…We have too much quality players in his spot,i feel sympathy for him,injury has stolen his extra game..His days are over…
——Babel—-Depay——-
———-PRopper————
—-Frenkie——–Van de vbeek—
————-Ake——————–
Kongolo—-Virgil—-Deligt—Wijnaldum
————cillessen——————–
Would have been a better balanced side..
Wijnaldum is right back in this line up?
GINI CAN PLAY THERE AS AN EFFECTIVE RB.. hE WILL GETS TEH jOB DONE than lesser player who plays there.
Some body pliz give this man diarhhoea tablets. He is shitting from all holes.
look at this article
http://www.goal.com/en/lists/fifa-19-ratings-revealed-mane-alexis-mbappe-best-players/1vx10l1d5b5k51dtmq0z0iltkr#1whjujmfo93j61e3ky7bkpxbq3
we have only 2 player in that list but Robben almost done.
I dont think the dutch will win any game in this nations league.from which ever angel you wanna look at it but the outcome will be the same. Quality wise NT simply doesnt have and with due respect all the players that were selected for these two games, only few have the potential to have the team built around. Wijnaldum, promes, babel , vilhnea, VDBeek, tete, Blind, they are ok players but they simply dont have it and slowly I can see them fading and if not the NT will start lagging as usual.it will be same old story.with average teams they will look good and and with top teams they will look average. One guy that particularly caught my attention in the french game was Davy Propper. his average capabilities as a midfielder was on top of display and he just could do nothing about it. I wont blame koeman here he has inherited the f**kups of Danny blind.wijnaldum, Vilhnea, Propper, Blind , promes, VDBeek are all ok players but they simply dont have the cutting edge to take the team to another level.its simple as ABC. For now there not much chocies but to go with them but the fact is you need more more better quality players who individually are more complete and all rounded to shift the next gear.
This cycle will continue until the definition between good and better within players automatically surfaces up and settles the dust.just like Frenkie vs strootman.if you look at players like Redan, stengs, Boadu, Pierie, they already look like players with special qualities and its just a matter of time when they will arrive on the big stage and this is when there will be more causalities like what happened to strootman.
It will be around next season when this will take its course or maybe after that.
https://www.sofoot.com/les-notes-des-pays-bas-contre-la-france-460297.html
French marks for dutch players :
Only 5 for F.De Jong, Van Dijk best player with 7 and Depay, Promes and Propper worst ones with 4 (maybe the worst one is Promes if we add readers marks – 2.9)
I can’t believe the negative comments. We played the WC champions!. Koeman’s era is still starting and he managed to compete against the WC winners.
Also there are new players in Oranje who will become very important like Frenkie de Jong, De Ligt, Kluivert and Bergwijn.
All those comments saying we do not have enough quality are wrong. We do have enough quality and we will keep improving.
We do lack a real center forward but we can compete at the highest level. We have experience Edith Van Dijk, De Vrij, Wijnaldum, Depay, Blind and the younger players have quality and what I like most about them is that they have a winning mentality.
I agree.
We’ve talked for a long time about relying on the aging stars. They were all gone for the first time and Koeman produced a lineup that was not overrun by the WC champs and in fact played at a high level. There wasn’t enough attacking threat, but we certainly weren’t playing negative football.
Building a core team of van Dijk, de Ligt, Frenkie, Memphis, Wijnaldum, Cillessen, and Propper seems like a great start, then adding to the roster (and the flanks) depending on the opponent and the form of the second group of players will allow us to be competitive for the next couple of years.
As a focus on young blood and with an eye toward the future, I’d like to see guys like Babel and Vormer left out, but other than that I like where this team is heading in the Koeman era.
Agree with Alaa, Anvalluh and Miguel. There were alot of positives to be taken from that game.
Also interesting to me. The lineups as set forth in the pre-game notes of various websites and on the tv broadcast indicated a 3 cb formation. But whether by design or not (and I have to think it was design), Blind and Tete played as fb’s—pushing up the side line, and overlapping the forwards when the when the NT had the ball, Propper and FDJ were were always coming back deep to take play in front of the VVD and De ligt, and cover when one of those two had to go out and cover for Tete and Blind who were up the field…it looked alot more like a 4-2-3-1, or inverted 4-3-3. In the second half, Oranje showed there was no reason they can’t play with anybody in that formation.
IMO, though, for the NT to really take a step up, though, it needs a player(s) who can go by a defender on the outside, who the opposing team is worried about getting behind them. For that reason, I’d like to see Kluivert (or Bergweijn, though he was dropped) playing…just to see if they can do it at that level.
With van dijk*
once the national league is over and then euro 2020 and if NT fails to perform or qualify for these and then the only option left will be to bring in all youngsters for the world cup the names which are being talked about here and may be only dijk, memphis and cillessen will survive( maybe one or two more).They along with the new boys will play for world cup qualification 2022. Whether koeman will survive as coach of NT only time will only tell us. The best thing for NT will be to introduce more young blood before it is too late.
I think its jus a matter of putting the pieces.the next four games for NT is Germany, Belgium, France and Germany.4 big games and as mentioned by others alot of things has being learned and its a matter of going on with positives and leaving behind the negatives. Koeman simply needs to forcast now which players are productive enough to build the team going forward with and which ones need to be simply replaced, giving others the oppirtunity to prove themselves.the next four games should be all about this and regardless of whether they win or loose. this is will lay down the most formidable platform for the euro qualification. I dont think the euro
qualifers will harder than this nations league and this games can be best used to isolate those players who show that they have the resilience to standoff with these big teams.come euro qualifers the same group of players should be used for final touch ups and build more confidence level playing together. Kongolo and Ake tops, kluivert maybe? Van Annholt, Vilhnea.
If koeman follows the the trend of Danny Blind of persisting with the flops like danny did after the euro failure Im afraid what Manoj kumar has said above will be true.
Was just thinking If luc castaignos pulls in some of his strings. It could well open up for him. I mean his Inter form. I always thought he just needs the right type of players around him to kick start.with Dost injured at Sporting, he is destined for more playing time. Just somebody to look out for.
I am really happy that Ajax didn’t sell Frenkie de Jong. He is a very talented player.
Also I want to say that I am happy Ziyech or Mazraoui decided to play for Morocco. I don’t want players who don’t love the Oranje jersey. They are good but if they didn’t want to play for us that’s ok, I want players who will kill themselves for the national team and feel proud of Oranje.
Our defense is decent and our midfield is improving with the likes of Frenkie de Jong and Propper in form.
Now our attack worries me. Depay is doing great but he needs help he can’t do it alone.
Although I have my hopes on Bergwijn, Kluivert and Locadia (if he decides to focus on football).
—————-Cillessen————-
—-Tete—-V.Dijk—-DeLigt—-Aanholt–
—-Propper—-Wijnaldum—-F.DeJong—-
——Kluivert—-Depay——Bergwijn—
There is not a single player with a guaranteed place but Cillessen, V. Dijk, DeLigt, Depay and F.deJong seem like the only players who can be certain of their place in the starting XI.
U-21s lose 1-2 to….
Scotland.
Koeman has a tough row to hoe.
If it makes you feel any better, Spain’s U21 team lost to Northern Ireland as well.
I didn’t see any of the game other than the unbelievable keeper error that led to the first Scotland goal. The second one was an 88th minute PK, so the score line may not accurately reflect the future
U19s and U20s looks like are the real deal coming up maybe in 2 years time.there seems a lot of positional players which will ignite competition and which will will cause headache for the coaches. You look the forwards department Redan, Boadu, Buitink, vente, Sierhuis.they will collide at some stage and most probably next year or so. This is where competition will take its course.some will break while some will make it big.
Its just a matter of time.if you look at current U21s players like Dumfries, Zivkovic, Idrssi,ramselaar, ouwejan,will no more be eligible next year and will have to go.this is when you would expect those from U20s and U19s currently who have high expectations to jump to the u21s
Players like Boadu, Redan, Chong, Vente, Bakker, Kadioglu, Pierie joining the the likes of van Drongelen, Eiting, Koopmeiners, Danjuma, Lammers and with stengs also will encite a major coup in the team and this when you expect to see the best being forged. Well of course with good coach who can stir the ship.
As far as the european chamiponship is concerned they are all but out and van looi should just bring in the changes now with 3 games remaining for a good transitions next year.
I watched croatia and Spain and I must say spain is on the brink of unleashing their next golden generation. 6-0 and boy Asensio and Isco made modric and Rakitic look like old man.apart from the backine who are in the late 20s, saul,Jose Gaya, Rodgrio, Dani Cabellos, Rodri hernandez outclashed the croatias who looked like a shadow of the side that reached the WC final.Asensio will be their next super star.
Let’s face it we have a huge problem from U-18 to U-21. Our lads lag behind at this period. Our youth coach for these teams made horrible mistakes. Let’s take a look at our embarrassing results for the last couple years from these teams and you will see this is not just one game issue but a system issue, a youth development issue.It started as early as 2010 or maybe even earlier.
U18
0:3 Portugal
0:3 Poland
1:4 Turkey
0:2 Austria
2:4 USA
0:2 Scotland
0:4 Germany
1:3 England
1:4 England
1:1 Northern Ireland
0:2 Russia
1:4 Czech
0:3 England
U19
1:4 France
0:1 Austria
1:3 Greece
0:6 France
1:4 Portugal
0:1 Cyprus
1:6 Germany
1:2 Georgia
0:1 Ireland
1:5 France
0:2 Scotland
1:4 Germany
1:4 England
U20
1:2 Norway
2:4 Norway
0:3 Ireland U21
0:4 Germany
0:1 Czech
0:3 England
0:1 Poland
1:3 Czech
U21
1:3 Ukraine
1:2 Scotland
0:1 Czech
0:3 Sweden
0:1 Macedonia
0:3 Italy
0:1 Czech
0:3 Austria
0:3 Spain
0:1 Georgia
0:1 Slovakia
0:1 Isarel
1:3 Slovakia
2:4 Slovakia
1:4 France
1:3 USA U23
0:4 France U20
2:2 Belarus
0:2 Scotland
0:1 Austria
1:2 Scotland
1:4 Belgium
1:1 Paraguay U20
It is one thing to occasionally have an embarrassing match, it is another if you regularly do that. We have to face it, our youth development from U18 up is horrible.
I think one place it not working out for the dutch is maintaining that consistency in players when coming up the ranks.by the time they arrive at the u21 level most of them go stray or are not active.this is where those who make it through eredivisie or are active outside of eredivisie get the nod. Though they look strong on paper but then other youth teams have players arriving at u21s playing together from every youth level and who are also active in their domestic top league.this gives them more edge simply because they are already well versed with each other playing together over the years while for the dutch its back to square 1 and start from scratch especially with new players coming in.
You look at U17s who won the european championship.when that contingent will arrive at the u21 level, half of them will not make it. I still remember there was big ajax contingent in that team and for jong ajax alot of them get disposed as free agents and this is one reason where they go lost.
Its hard to think of any other reason as to why they are on a nose dive.
Not sure what but something is really wrong in youth development by looking at the above-mentioned list. I still think the football system and coaching is sort of archaic in the Netherlands, and there is little attempts towards the change. Another reason that we have already talked about before is leaving too young for abroad and warming benches there. However, I have started seeing some improvement there: players have started realistically evaluating their chances of the regular play in the major leagues and preferring to stay in the NT. Let’s see. It is going to be very slow recovery.
Adam Maher has signed one year deal with AZ Alkmaar. this is a very good news for him and could well revive his career. I hope Van den Brom will push Til further back and start with Maher ,Til and Koopmeiners in the midfield. they are up against feyenoord this week.
https://youtu.be/FGj3jVYm3pM
Apparently van den brom was impressed with him in the training session.gotta give this guy the credit for working his butt out.
I meant “Butt off” LOL
I am very happy that Adam is back in AZ. He will need some time to adjust but I hope he will be given a pure #10 role. I do not think Guus Til does a good job in that role. Plus, it is good for AZ midfield to feel a competition. Otherwise, midfield has been unchallenged for a while.