Not really… :-).
I’m not for that. I don’t believe in forced things. It doesn’t work. It’s all emotion! Sneijder out! Vaart out! Van Persie out! Heitinga out!
It’s all based on our disappointment. We feel betrayed.
Well, I’m sure the lads are not sleeping well either.
These are the same guys that almost got the big one two years ago.
I am also not about “age”. And that is partly because I’m “getting old”.
But what is age? Good enough is young/old enough. If Willems and Maher are mentioned, that surely Kuyt and Mathijsen are still welcome too. As long as they are GOOD ENOUGH!
Apologies for yelling.
But let’s get serious people.
We are not in trouble.
We have great goalies. Stekelenburg is 29 years old. He has 6 good years in him. That is two World Cups and one Euro to go. And behind him: Vorm, Krul, Cillesen, Mulder and God knows who shows up in the next 6 years. Period.
Central Defenders. Maybe we are not too strong here. Maybe. We have Ryan Donk in Belgium doing well. We have Viergever, Bruma, Gouweleeuw and De Vrij making their way up. Rekik is only 18 years old now but he’s made his debut for Man City and he will certainly improve. Heitinga is certainly not spent. Daley Blind will focus on the center back role at Ajax and with a strong marker next to him, he can be the same kind of players as dad. Relatively good defensively, but very strong in build up. The point is we need to practice. Test people. Develop them. And then there is that man Douglas! Most likely playing for us in Brazil in two years. I am not concerned. And if it was me as team manager, I’d try out Strootman as sweeper.
Looking through an orange pair of glasses…
Full backs. A spot of concern. As full backs in the 1970s and 1980s were usually the worst players in the team, these days they need to be really strong. Fast, strong defensively, good vision, good headers and being able to cross a ball in.
Jetro Willems is a man for the future on the left. Erik Pieters will get back. Buttner will further improve and hopefully Emanuelson will too. And then there is that man Drenthe?! He is so sensationally talented! But needs a coach who can “touch” him. Instead of criticising him for being late at practice. Surely, if Balotelli is allowed to step on faces and burning down houses, someone should be able to motivate Royston?? I’m sure Feyenoord will produce some prospects for that spot too. At Ajax we saw Koppers playing really strong there for a spell and Patrick van Aanholt is a candidate too by then. I’d say, we should be fine.
The right back spot might be Van der Wiel’s now, but Kelvin Leerdam will be breathing in his neck and so will Ronnie Stam hopefully. And Ricardo van Rhijn will show himself too.
In midfield, I’m hoping we will play with only one holding mid. And we have a number to choose from. Nigel de Jong is still going strong. Strootman is too. Stijn Schaars is a candidate, while youngsters like Jordy Clasie and Leroy Fer will knock on the door with full force. Vernon Anita was close already and Ibi Afellay and Adam Maher can play the part too.
Creative midfielders galore, normally. The playmakers. Van der Vaart and Sneijder will not throw the towel as yet. Van Ginkel at Vitesse is catching everyone’s eye, as is Adam Maher at AZ. Georginio Wijnaldum was close already this time around. I personally don’t see it in Siem de Jong, but hey…add him to the mix. We have some exciting youngsters coming through at Feyenoord and I’m sure at Ajax, PSV, Vitesse, Sparta and AZ too… But with the number of strikers on hand, we should consider Mr Van Persie as a creative midfielder too.
Central strikers, no problemo. Hunter, Luuk de Jong, Bram Dost, Ricky van Wolfswinkel, Luc Castaignos, Zeefuik, Nacer Barazite, etc etc…
On the wings, Arjen Robben will be around for a bit. At least I hope so. I think he is great. But please please, on the left wing, so we’ll see some crosses come in. If we play with a Hunter like striker, that is actually handy… We have Ola John on the left too and he has shown tremendous skill in crossing the ball in. And then there’s Derk Boerrigter on the left too. Narsingh on the right is a good classic winger too. Wijnaldum can play on the right wing and we know that if necessary Afellay can play there too.
And with youngsters like Memphis Depay (PSV winger), Stefano Denswil and Mitchell Dijks ( Ajax defenders) and Tonny Trindade de Vilhena (Feyenoord midfielder) even in the mix ( all around 20 years old in 2014), our future does look bright.
So, in summary, what do we have:
1. A very talented and skilful group of players, in a nice age mix
2. A football culture and style to rely on
3. Tactical smarts ( if we pick the right coach)
4. A strong need/urge/desire to take revenge on ourselves for this Euro debacle
The only thing we need to create is time to try out new players and test game play. Whenever the A-team gets together for a game, get the second tier lads together for practice. In the 2013 summer, don’t fall for the money trap to take the team to Japan, China or Argentina, but get the boys together for a practice period in Holland. Test young defenders, organise practice games against Ajax 2 or Katwijk.
Don’t let money be the guide and new coach, don’t do things “because that is how we always do them” but invest in re-visiting the Dutch playing style and drill it in. Forward pressure, high paced passing, wing play and pass&move.
There is no need to consider the 2014 World Cup as lost. We can be ready with a strong squad IF the KNVB has the balls to make the right choice.
Yes! Jan! Hell you have my vote if you’re running for Oranje manager =)
yes i do agree about being good enough, as long as a person is good enough they should be on the field. although age can be a reason, for not being good enough.
I think we all know that the odds are in our favor, with soo many talented youngsters, and great players, I mean, I find it hard to believe that a group of 50 talented youngsters, that all of them will go bust. it’s not likely
odds are we will find at least 2 good enough players for each position, Just listing every position, we are loaded, We shouldn’t be losing the way we did in the euros.
I don’t feel kuyt should be shunned for his age yet, his fitness is still great, he could play forever like scholes or giggs, and the players at ac milan.
But at the same time, some guys you can see it. No matter how smart, and how much experience, no fitness means decline. It happens. it’s just about spotting it, and let them fade away in glory that they deserve.
Jan, your list of players are similar to those I compiled yesterday with regards to the experiments the new manager can try out during the 2014 World Cup qualifying campaign.
My feeling is that we have new young players developing well in the Dutch league and rather than moving abroad where their playing time might be limited and development affected, they should concentrate on their own games in the country, maybe move to the top clubs within Holland and probably bring back European glory to Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Twente, AZ etc… In this way, the new manager will be able to assess their growth and playing style, the Dutch style.
However, with the lure of riches awaiting abroad, I hope these young players can resist the monetary temptation and think far for their respective future… It’s easier said than done as football is their staircase to heaven and all players dream of getting the best out of this career, with lucrative endorsement deals and attractive salary package awaiting them if they ever make it big… We cannot stop them if they only think of the short term gains in fame & glory, can we?
But if the KNVB can exert some form of control, retaining these young talents within the league and getting them to perform weekly in front of the nation and hopefully around Europe, maybe the Eredivisie will be as strong as the Bundesliga where clubs are able to hold on to their young talents and the standard of football has never been better.
With this influx of young, exciting talents, mixed with the seasoned overseas based players, I’m sure the experiments, if the new manager has the balls, will provide us with a successful qualifying round and then a decent run in the 2014 World Cup.
Jan, totally agree but with 3 exceptions (sorry!)…
Heitinga – not my cup of team, average CB at best. More of a utility man to me.
Kuyt – I don’t need to revisit my thoughts here – I have NO time for him
N de Jong – yes he’s a tiger in the tackle but he doesn’t run the midfield like Davids, Keane, Vierra or even France’s current Diarra. And his passing tends to be backwards 1st. Still a good player to have in the squad but nota starter for me.
For me the only thing abOut youngsters these days is….
1. Ensure that they don’t leave there respective clubs too early (drenthe)
2. Ensure that they get good playing time alongside an experienced shoulder
3. Ensure that they have a manager who encourages them
4. Ensure that they leave to move on at the right time if need be to develop (drenthe)
I don’t want to see players whose egos are bigger than their contributions anywhere near the Oranje team anymore. Van Persie and Afellay for example. They poison the whole group. You can’t let a few players destroy the team spirit, nevermind how good they supposedly play for their clubs.
The problem there is that it doesnt do much when you win every single match, but when things start going wrong and the ‘arrogant’ ones play average at best and don’t deliver, you start to get tensions. Which usually does not improve but helps worsen performances since it takes focus off of the actual performance. Especially when these tensions and conflicting ideas lead to different approaches in the team on the field itself. However I’ve noticed some people think this plays no role at all since all our players are merely 11 robots that count on their fitness and can not in any way be affected by interaction or something as trivial as emotions! …
If Van Persie is arrogant, then he should perform accordingly, considering he may just act arrogant to hide insecurity with Huntelaar breathing down his neck as striker. I can only say please try to find a system where you don’t make them both nervous wrecks or cause too deep grudges. After all a performing Huntelaar and Van Persie that win you matches is in our best interest.
But I’m sure a football player never plays worse because of emotion …. yeh right.
In short, grudges grow when these arrogant attitudes aren’t backed up by real performance in the team. It’s the difference between just talking the talk, and walking the walk.
Well said Alex
You know , perhaps a ” Van basten-like ” coach is great in dealing with egos 😛 .
He has no problem in dropping a super star player out of the squad if he’s not fit for Oranje or will make problems in the team camp because of his ego ” remember Davids , Seedorf , Makaay , Ruud vs Portugal , Bommel ” .
He prefered Engelaar over bommel in the Euro 2008 lol 🙂
In fairness, that was the last time Engelaar played well
i really enjoyed your three analysis,Jan and have not too much to add. thx for it. i see oranje’s euro,bvm’s future and the “renovation” the same way,maybe with one exception: remaining realistic (it means pep is a dream), rijkaard would be my first choice for the job. if not frank,then adrianse.
watching the euros,i still miss oranje,there is a kind of emptiness.
I miss my Oranje too! I even tried to “support” other teams, for not related to football reasons. Tried it with the chechsxzs, and the greeks… it doesnt work. Its not love.
There are lots of good young players who will contribute to the NT in the next 3 tournament cycles. I don’t want to go down the list that Jan provided as it’s pretty thorough and there may be some more who emerge sui generis (in the same way that Jordy Classie and Adam Maher did this year).
The more immediate worry is the two qualification matches for the WC coming up in September against Turkey and Hungary (not to mention a friendly with Belgium, a team that has something to prove after missing the Euro). This really couldn’t be any worse with a team that may or may not be in turmoil (and there was a good story in today’s de Telegraaf on this topic) and a manager who may be sacked. Anything short of a victory and a draw in those matches will not bode well for qualification.
I’ve given this manager issue a lot of thought suspect that it’s 60/40 at this point that van Marwijk retains the job, at least through the early qualifiers since a change would be a major disruption. I don’t think any of the names that have been mentioned are a solution. de Boer is committed to Ajax and doesn’t want to take over what could be a sinking ship; Rijkaard has not distinguished himself since leaving Barcelona; Koeman had a good year with Feyenoord but a spotty record before; Adriaanse has been a disaster in his last three managerial positions; Verbeek was good with AZ this past year but had a bad run with Feyenoord in terms of a player revolt. All this leads me to the conclusion that the only real option is to bring in the grand chess master Foppe de Haan (who probably won’t do it) who did a great job with the youth teams, leading them to two Euro championships.
As the old proverb goes, “we live in interesting times.”
I couldn’t agree with you more…
I don’t know about bringing de Haan but I agree that we are living in interesting times..
How did Adriaanse’s last three jobs ended in disaster?? Twente was in the race for three trophies when Munsterman sacked him. McClaren didn’t fair too well. And with Porto and Salzburg, Co did very well. Don’t know what happened in the sand pit but I don’t see that as a real job…
Great article Jan, even tough age is not always a factor but at some point between now and WC’14 there should be a regeneration of players. There should be alternative players to our current heavyweights (Van Persie, Robben, Sneijder, Huntelaar, Heitinga and Van der Vaart). These guys are currently 28-29 years of age and in 2 years from now they will be 30-31 years old. If, they form the backbone of Oranje WC’14 and unfortunately fail again, then we would have wasted 2 years of valuable time and resources (trying new talents). The manager has a very tough decision to make, does he rely on the current crop and risk failing again (I don’t even want to imagine this scenario) or does he dismantle part of this group and inject a new bunch of talents and enter a period of transition. I personally prefer the latter, because it is less risky for the future of Holland. Btw, I doubt that these guys can kiss and make up, they’ve been together since (what) 2004-2006 and if in 8-6 years they couldn’t get along with each other then its less likely they will ever do so, even with a tough and disciplined manager. Their current age is the ideal age to win trophies, hell they almost did it 2 years ago. But I doubt that at 30 and with all their “internal affairs” they will have the spirit to do so. If at 28 they couldn’t brush aside their “egos” for the sake of the team and a nation behind them, then its less likely they will do it at 30, where your knocking on retirement, legs are dying on you and other teams are running faster than speedy gonzalez. (Yes, I’m talking about those Germans who are currently 24 years of age and will only be 26 at WC’14).
No matter who is the coach and who are the selected players, Holland will not improve unless something drastically changes about their ATTITUDE. Be professional, have a deadly killer instinct, never give up, put team above self and play with heart and fire. In other words, follow the German philosophy. ONLY THEN we may have a chance.
Very well said
I hate to admit this but you are 100% correct. I never thought there will be a day when we will need to emulate the Germans but the day is finally here.
I don’t usually agree with your comments but I’ll def. agree
Really surprised about the poll results so far on the main page. Really guys? Germany? Our Arch-rivals are the other Oranje? (btw I do really like Marco Reus though)
Michaels & Cruyff braught Voetbal Totaal to Barcelona only for Pep Guardiola to implement Cruyff’s modified version. Although there are a few extra Madrid players this year; the WC winning squad was made of Barcelona players who play the Dutch way. If anything Espana is the other Oranje. If Spain win a third straight tournament it shows the power of Total Football.
haha I was just a little surprised by the vote
Im personally bored of the way Spain play. 48,000 passes then a goal. After they beat us in WC2010 they are high up on my hate list.
Well said. For me there is no big difference between 48’000 useless passes and … no pass at all in the good ol’ catenaccio of Greece…
Exactly! your screaming at the TV “Do Something!!” at least with the Greeks they havent got that many talented players and play to their own defensive strengths. With the Spanish i think casillas gets more passes to him than the opposing team gets altogether.
What Spain does is so incredibly technically superior that it makes any opponent look like amatures, half the time Spain doesnt even have to put in 100% effort, they just stroll along so easily in passing and positioning. With that many midfielders it does get to be a little bit.. boring sometimes, especially since you often get the feeling theyre not playing at their full ability. Also, they do have problems scoring, they dont tend to score more than one or two goals, lol.
Basically the Spanish football is technically almost perfect at times. But it doesnt necessarily make for the most exciting football.
I think you/we are just jealous of the Spaniards. Think about it: What are the chances that any team can score on a build-up with the opponent fully back and positioned? Almost nil! You pass it around for a bit then maybe try a cross or get the ball into a striker or forward–who is immediately surrounded by three defenders who take the ball and move the other way. You’re trying to beat seven/eight defenders (at least)–plus the keeper!
What do Spain do? They extend the buildup with extra passing, and probe rather brilliantly, which does two things: 1) tires the other team, eventually; and 2) increases the chance of a lapse and a Spaniard sneaking behind a fullback and getting the ball in a good position to shoot. Is it annoying to play against? Yes! But it’s smart and they are very good at it.
What impresses me about Spain, also, is their defense: When they do lose the ball, even in midfield, they get back–everybody. Unlike our Dutch, they seem very fit. Their defense is good. Will be interesting to see them play portugal.
Noone denied that Spain is good. What some people here saying(including me) is that they are also playing boring football. If you enjoyed their passing, it is your choice. Guillaume vB, Alun and me think that is extremely boring, even more than the defensive style of Greece.
And I don’t think jealousy plays any role here. Because if it is, we should be jealous of half of the teams in this tournament consider how we played.
Can never pull for the current group of Spanish players. It has very little to do with the WK 2010 loss. It has more to do with their over the top petulance and play-acting. Comparing their style of play to the ’74-’78 KNVB may be peripherally relevant, but it is a cheap copy. The Oranje of Cruijff and company were also tough as nails and could get down in the mud and sling with the best of them (see 1974 Brazil match). You could hammer away at them, and lo and behold! There was no whining or diving.
With this Spanish team the opposite holds true. See Inestia’s blatant acting in the 2010 Final. You may argue that is a part of the modern game, and can even be considered tactics, but I loathe that style of play. And to be completely honest, that is the part of Robben’s play I detest, and why I can never really embrace him.
So that is why I will never support, nor pull, for this group of Spaniards. Cruijff influenced or no.
Maybe if L de Jong, Dost en Wolfswinkel develop further we can do next year what Low did yesterday. Then we have 6, 7, 8 strikers we can all use. The coach could play :
Robben Hunter/LdeJong Narsingh, or
Boerrighter Persie/Dost/Wolf Robben
Then all players have to compete in healthy rivalry and cannot be complacent like now.
I think the german striker are all on edge now and know they must perform every game.
Our strikers were having territorial fights with eachother.
I am not in favor of sending home all the big names. But I would say Affelay, vd Wiel must fight themselves back in oranje.
vdVaart is a great player if he is fit, must be fit if he wants to be in Oranje.
Vpersie, well I am a persie hater and he has shown he is a pain and a nuisance every time in oranje, and also never brings his form to oranje. His kicking the air over the ball was the most humiliating moment of the euro. Best player of the EPL. Time after time he let us down. But certainly Bert or new coach will try again with this misfit.
Sneijder is the one we must make captain of course, he is th e only one who played well always when with oranje.
Our biggest talent is Maher. Together with Aniita Strootman , Clasie, Fer let them fight for the midfield positions with vd Vaart and N de Jong.
If trootman can recover and find his form back I think we could have this midfield in one year or so:
Anita Sneijdertje Strootman/de Jong Wow!
This is exactly what should happen. We have some friendlies before the qualifiers and these youngsters should be given a chance to fight for the positions. I have never liked v.Persie myself. I hate his attitude, the fact that hes always picking his nose everytime the camera pans to him, and he doesn’t come through for Oranje unless it’s against San Marinos.
Bert really contradicts himself. He gives VdWiel an automatic start but cuts Pieters from the group. Remember VdW was injured just as long as Pieters. Afellay was out the whole year for Barca and had a bit part in the last few games… yet he started the first 2 games for Oranje? I also think Bert would start v.Persie just so he’d keep his mouth shut. I would like to see what kind of reaction he’d have if he didn’t even get used as a sub for a game. Huntelaar’s patience ran thin and rightly so; 1 game in the WC? He’s the top scorer in Qualifiers (which prepare you for the tournament) and then he’s back to the bench? Stupid
Pieters would have been called up if he could play.
Van de Wiel does not show much toughness or confidence–his play is disappointing, like everybody else. I think I think to a large extent BVM aimed to stick with what worked in the WC–and one can’t blame him for that–but this time it didn’t work; too many issues. Things might have been different if we’d scored early against Denmark–we might have found enough confidence to get through the group–but that is all. Maybe we would have found a way to tie our nemesis, portugal. I used to love the Dutch footballing ethic–and their technical skills–but Holland need more athleticism and less individual arrogance to win a major tournament. The next coach should read the riot act to players–no distractions, no bullshit, or you are not on the squad.
Thankyou Jan, what a great post, We have so much talent. Look at all the youth sides. But I personally dislike it when big European clubs or even clubs that have more money then the clubs in the eredivisie poach our young talent.
What Orangegate has revealed so far:
Van Bommel was called the assistant manager by the other players and nobody listened to him.
Heitinga leaked all line-ups to a tv station, where his mrs, Bolo Zenden’s sister worked.
Huntelaar annoyed all other players by demanding a place in the starting line up.
Apparently Van Bommel even called up someone from VI oranje tv-show to complement him on the accurate description of the mood in oranje. lol
Need to break up the Ajax coalition. They’re toxic to teams moral and spirit.
Get Heitinga out of the national team. Get Huntelaar and Van der Vaart out. Promote some Feyenoord talents like Clasie.
Nad, have you lost it? Ajax is by far the best club in Holland. It has nothing to do with clubs. So don’t bring this up again.
Jan, I agreed with most of what you said. I do not agree on the age issue. Unless a player over 30 can prove that he is in the same league like Klose I think you should make room for youngster. If you keep Mathijsen or Kuyt then you lose a spot for younger player who needs a chance to be tested.
Central defenders: I like your idea of having Strootman there. I may keep Heitinga but needs more from him. If not he can only be a sub. My vote is for Bruma and Douglas.
Left back: I’m ok with Pieters and one of Willem/Buttner/Emmanuelson.
Right back: We need more from Van Der Wiel and one of Van Rhijn/Stam/Leerdam or whoever the best youngster out there.
Holding Midfield: If we can play Strootman as central defender then we have De Jong here and open up a spot for Classie/Anita. I would not take Schaars.
Creative Midfields: Here is a dilemma. We either keep both Sneijder and VD Vaart (if they can play well together) or just go with Sneijder. The 2 backup spots should go to Maher/Wijnaldum and perhaps Afellay.
Wingers: Robben, Narsingh, Ola John and perhaps Afellay/Wijnaldum.
Striker and shadow striker: Hunter and Van Persie must find a way to work together or else we only keep one. 1 of Luuk De Jong/Dos/Wolfswinkel can be a backup for Hunter. I’m not sure who can be a backup for Van Persie.
I think we need to have a good mix/balance of veterans and youngsters. I still do not understand why they can have more friendlies with Dutch clubs (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, AZ,…even the Ajax 2,Feyenoord 2, PSV 2) to test the young player.
If a player cannot accept being a sub then he is welcome to leave. If a starting player under perform (perhaps 2 games in a row) or not 100% fit he lose his starting spot. Moving him to a different position is not a good idea. Each player should know his role in the team and play with the designed strategy.
Agree: While the coach must start playing the most talented youngsters in next friendlies, he must also figure out where guys fit and let the get accustomed to their spots and their teammates. The WC team seemed to have /some/ chemistry, but this team none. Look at Spain: They have a pretty stable lineup and seem to know each other innately on the field. Holland, meanwhile, play Hunter and RVP together in the last game and there is no chemistry and RVP is lost and it’s a disaster. Somebody has to figure out quickly if those two can play together or not. I think Holland are better with one striker; to play both is likely to invite more problems than success, for sure.
what a cross…, how nice to have leftfooted player on the left…
What a boring game. France is so limited (bar Ribéry, maybe) and Spain doesn’t want to attack. Expect another indigent second half.
Jan, I really agree with you on the issue of Drenthe. He is not the only one who is difficult and yet he is not given a proper chance. I have a hard time understanding why. He is a great talent and could have easily played left back for us. How many chances did Balotelli have in comparison?
what you guys think abour vurnon anita, Newcastle offered 5 million euros and was declined by ajax, who want more
norwich city, and newcastle have contacted about him. With a posibility of aston villa,
my guess he stays at ajax for another year
news on van der wiel according to http://www.footlille.com/2012/06/23/35253-van-der-wiel-plutot-que-debuchy-a-linter
van der wiel is targeted by inter milan, because they wanted debuchy from france, and instead newcastle an chelsea are in a bidding “war” for him
How pathetic was this game? I swear it makes me so mad we are not in this tournament.
Spain will get mauled by Portugal. They looked tired and will have two less days to recover.
Yes I agree Guillaume vB. I am betting on a Portugal-Germany final. It will at least redeem us somewhat.
What a drag, jeez. I’m glad there was no extra time
i’m sure spain will win it,today they played at 50 percent,and it was more than enough against france. technically they are far better than any other team
On paper, I agree. Tonight they missed an awful lot of passes, though, which was lucky for us watchers: we escaped the dreadful 48’000 useless passes alluded to before on this blog. I think I heard the swiss commentator mentioning France even had 55% possession in second half, an achievement by itself.
i really hope a country not named spain win it, i could care less now, hell even portugal would be better than spain, I”m expecting though spain in the final
I’m expecting Germany vs Spain. Hopefully itll be an interesting match. However odd it may be, I’ll be rooting for Germany then xD
Spain is going all the way. They control the game at will and totally shut down the other team. Yes it is boring at times but not worse than our ugly group games. France didn’t have a good chance the whole game. Most importantly Spain improves in every game peaking out in the final. Spain – Germany 3-2.
I beg to differ, controlling the game by touching is one thing but creating chances is another. The current German team is effective, they can create chances and score, at the same time they can tone down, and control the game. Spain relies too much on their passes, if the opponent is able to shut this down then they lose. The main difference with this Spain “Barca” wannabe is that when Messi gets bored of passing the ball around he creates something and scores. This Spanish team is finding it hard to score.
Not this time Ferenc. Portugal has a weapon Spain does not have and that is Ronaldo. He can change the game on his own and is on top form right now.
Especially as Spain push a high line. CR7 or Nani will be ready for the long ball counter
I expect some 1 v 1s on Casillas
Spain only has to score one goal. Their defense totally shut down France today and they’ve only conceded to Italy in the tournament so far. It will take some real magic from CR7 to get a goal for Portugal and I can’t see anyone else on that team getting one. If they play Germany in the final the same thing will happen. They will shut down Ozil in the midfield and since their lines are so compact, it’s hard to see how Germany gets through. Watching the match today it seemed as though there were 15 Spanish defenders on the field. I’m no fan of del Bosque and believe this team could be scoring a lot more goals, but defensively this is one of the strongest NTs that I’ve seen in recent times.
Agree! Nobody talks about Spain’s defense! They get back and defend well! I doubt they will allow Renaldo the space we did!
Someone asked how it is possible that our arch-rivals Germans are the “new Oranje”. Well it’s really simple. Germans are moving faster and it’s more exciting to watch their game. Their game style is simple, yet creative, and the game is always fast-paced. Furthermore, their defense is quite bad as well, all though nowhere near the level of Oranje of course.
And boy was France-Spain a bore to watch. Hopefully Germany will get a chance for revenge against Spain in the finals. Spain do not deserve a third major title in a row.
I do believe age is an issue but on another matter. Look at all the great Dutch (and World) attacking/midfield talents, at what age did they make their Int’l debut? Usually as teenagers or very early 20s. So guys stop thinking 22-25 y old talents will make it big, look at 17-18 y olds that may make it in next 2 years. THEY will become the stars (if we have them).
not always, it comes an issue of late blooming, whats the cut off date for national teams in uefa,
look at uefa under 21 championships
Players are eligible for the 2013 UEFA European Under-21 Championship if they were born on or after 1 January 1990.
so we have a cut off date set in stone, now, imagine your a 12 year old in holland, with all the skills in the world, but you were born december 5th? your a year younger than all the other players, so you don’t move up, so we see all sorts of talented guys just because they hit puberty before others.
So with experience, and dutch football teams having a rule about every player needs to have a team and play until they are 22, it allows late bloomers to show themselves at that age
Olympique Lyonais has the same findings, that a player isn’t physically ready, and had enough game time to enter their prime until they are 22.
so what does that mean, guys like anita, two years ago at 21, sucked, now he’s 23, and he’s showing himself to be a great player wanted by bigger teams.
So dutch talents don’t develop later per say, but rather, they have to prove in the eredivisie at 22 to be good enough to play in a better league. and then when moving to spain, germany, or england, they can show the world if they are good enough for holland.
Adding to that post look at our side – Sneijder,vdV,vP,Robben all teenagers – Cruyff Pele Maradona same story! if they sre seriously “special” they show these signs as 17/18 y olds – right now only Willems qualifies.
what about ricardo quaresma? ryan babel? In america feddy adu? Michael Owen? Owen Hargreaves? alberto aquilani?
lots of dutch talents were supposed to be amazing like
Otman bakkal? Collins John? Romeo Castelen? Nicky Hofs?
and what did we get? it doesn’t always work out the way we think it will. For all we know, Adam Maher could be bust, and marco van ginkel could be the next superstar player,
True. There is always someone like that. We have Andy van der Meyde and Cedric van der Gun before Van der Vaart as the big name players.
First of all: Is there any option to have Cruyff as a coach. That would be awsome.
Around 1 year ago I wrote here a similar comment and I’m going to do the same now because it’s the subject of the present post. (By the way, a really good one Jan!).
Teams are built from defense to offense and not the other way round. If I see the big national teams nowadays, the first adjective to come to my mind while seeing their defence is power. Ramos and Pique are two strong and athletics defences who inspired too much respect and even
fear to his opponents. The same can be told from the Germans Hummels and Badstuber and Portugues Pepe among others. In our case, we have an slow Mathijsen and the “shorty” Heitinga who isn’t even 180 cm tall. World class strikers would have fun with them, my God even Bendtner could´n’t be stoopped by these guys. For 2014, if we have some luck, that problem should be solved. Some Douglas is a bear of a player and yet with a decent technique. He will impose far too much respect from the antagonist for sure. The another spot in the centre back could be troublesome. There are two supertalents (left centre backs) that surely are going to bring us pleasure but I’m afraid they will be still too young for the 2014 battle. I’m talking about Stefano Denswill from Ajax and Karim Rekik from Man C. Let’s not make the same Jetro Willems’s mistake. There are a bunch of players we should follow their progress the next 2 years: Bruma, Gougeleeuw, De Vrij, Nuytink and Viergever. If you ask me I think Viergever is in pole position. I think we won’t need either Heitinga and Mathijsen anymore. They aren’t world class defender and never will.
The backs shouldn’t be a problem. At left we will have a better Willems, a fit Pieters and a group of talented prospects in the like of Buttner, kuiper, Van Aanholt, G. Wijnaldum and Mitchell Dijk. At right, I don’t want to see Van der Wiel as a first option. It’s not about his footbal attributes but mentally speaking you can clearly see he is not a winner, don’t have any passion for the game at all. He’s a club player not a national team player. Period. I have put my hopes in Daryl Janmaat.He’s doted with all the qualities that a modern back should have: fast, can cover long distances driving the ball and is strong in one to one situations. i’m confident Ronald Koeman will improve the level of this player at Feyenoord. The other option should be Van Rhijn, that did very well last year. Hope he grab the place in ajax ahead that joke called Van der Wiel. kelvin Leerdam, Daley Blind, Lorenzo Burnet, etc, shouldn’t be even named, waste of time.
Agree about van der wiel! It is easy to see that he does not have enough passion and toughness to help make a great squad.
You are spot on – Defense wins games, Total Voetball was and is about your defenders being your attackers, this only works if you have the best defenders, unfortunately we don’t at this point in time!
Move on now tothe midfield place. These days it’s suicidal play with only one holding mid. If you wanna a proof watch the game against Portugal. So the thing is use two players capable of stealing balls, create opportunities, good shooters, and if possible a right footed at right and left footed at left (I’m thinking now in Neeskens-Van Hanegem duo). N. De Jong produces only in a defensive way, but as someone said, don’t add nothing in possetion. Adam Maher is going to be the best number 6 (ahead Anita, Clasie, Roorda and Fer)and Kevin Strootman the best number 8 (ahead Emanuelson or Drenthe) . The 10 position will be filled by Sneijder or Van Persie. The 2014 team should be built around our 3 world class player (Robben, Van Persie and Sneijder) alongside fresh blood, so I would say bye to Boula, Bouma, Mathijsen, Heitinga (not good enough), Van Bommel, Schaars (Heitinga case) and Kuit. If Huntelaar don’t accept his condition of bench warmer, I would get ride of him. Too many egos could ruin the atmosphere of the group.
So my team for 2014, if we qualify, is:
9. Van Persie
11.Robben (on the left wing please)
Strootman as a CB would be an absolute waste. Let’s remember he is only 22 and PSV totally came apart at the end of the season. Strootman is a versatile midfielder with pinpoint passing and will be a pivotal part of the midfield. As a central creative player too. Clasie/Fer/Anita will be the future DMF’s.
I really want to see Fer and Strootman play together for Oranje
Totally agree with you except the exclusion of Huntelaar. Far more valuable than v.Persie. Yeah he’s not going to take on 3 defenders and dribble around them but he is a lot more versatile than just a finisher. Playing with Raul has helped him a lot.
I don’t blame Klaas for being angry. That’s bad man management by Bert. He starts Huntelaar in the Qualifiers at the #9 position; Klaas pays him back by becoming the top scorer in qualification. Hunter scores more than 50 goals in a season and what does Bert do after all that… bench him and put Persie back up front. Why?
What has v.Persie done in Oranje the last 2 years to warrant an automatic start? He scored 1 goal in WC but so did Huntelaar. San Marino are a joke so the 4 he had that day aren’t an argument.
@Keko the last paragraph isn’t directed at you just general annoyance at BVM
Most excellent post Keko. Fantastic analysis …
Pieters may better serve as CB, we should consider it if the LB is covered …
My next analysis will be tactical concept. I’m going to shock you!
This is an overview of agitations in Oranje camp. This was leaked to Johan Derksen, most likely by Raf van der Vaart or Wes Sneijder. Mark van Bommel apparently confirmed most of this.
1. Long time agitation re Van Bommel
Mark van Bommel being skipper and Bert’s son in law. Jokingly, the players called him “assistant team coach” behind his back. Most players were annoyed with his “I know everything” approach.
2. Van der Wiel loner
Van der Wiel is a loner in the squad. Only listens to music or deals with his pet projects (fashion brand, hip hop productions).
3. Robben thinks he’s Jesus
Arjen Robben can’t handle criticism. He genuinely thinks he is the saviour of the team.
4. Van der Vaart / Huntelaar screwed by Van Marwijk
Both Vaart and Hunter were given the impression that they’d get a real chance in the starting line up. Vaart was given hints that Bert would test him as holding midfielder, as he played it so well against Sweden and in the games at the World Cup when he subbed Nigel. When Bert reneged on this promise, both players had enough.
5. Heitinga’s wife leaks to the press
John Heitinga’s wife ( Bolo Zenden’s sister) wants to chuck a Sylvie/Yolanthe and wants fame for herself. She’s now part of an entertainment tonight type program and she leaked sensitive info to the program. The players don’t trust Johnny anymore.
6. Ibi Afellay arrogant
Afellay is apparently very arrogant towards youngsters and likes to isolate himself from the group with buddies V Persie and Boulah.
7. Van Persie above the group
Robin was the only player who did not need to do media briefings or interviews. The rest of the team got highly annoyed with his “special” position.
Now, as someone commented earlier: these things are all normal ( bar the Heitinga/Vaart/Hunter/Ibi things) in any team but only really come out after a bad performance.
So I’m not too worried about those. But the other ones are all part of team management. If Ibi is arrogant or if Van Persie doesn’t want to do media stuff, Bert should have acted.
Jan I just wanted to ask your opinion why the one thing we are consistent at is arguing and falling apart at tournaments?
We can make all the tactical changes, player changes, formation changes but if we can’t be on the same page we won’t ever win anything. Barcelona/Madrid derby matches have been some of the ugliest these last few years (dirty Madrid players) but Pique-Ramos look as solid as brothers. Why can’t Oranje players do that?
I think it’s the make up of Dutch people. We question everything. We do accept authority, but only if the person in authority demonstrates to know his bizznizz. Bert said for 4 years “you only get selected if you have a starting position at your club” but broke that rule by selecting Afellay, Willems and Bouma, while Emanuelson, Anita and Maher were sent home. These things undermined his authority. At the World Cup 2010, we didn’t have this. Hiddink had problems in 1996, but not in 1998. We definitely can toe the line but we need strong and honest leadership.
The hate is in them, but its not so obvious because the team is winning, besides they have Casillas and Xabi Alonso/Xavi around the defensive area if they encounter trouble. The team is just too solid tactic wise. When they had troubles during the clasicos, Casillas invited the internationals to a dinner and made a pact that whatever happened in the those games it wouldn’t affect their relationship in the national team. Apparently, Mourinho wasn’t happy with Casillas move and almost kicked him out of Real.
Funny what one loss will do. At the WC everyone was singing BVM’s praises, and there was cohesion. He seemed to relate to the players very well–they liked and respected him. Then we lose to Denmark and it all falls apart–bickering and worse. The Dutch will never win unless the coach dumps players who are arrogant, complainers and/or loners. Bad attitudes will destroy a side. This is why, indeed, the Dutch need a very strong coach who will not put up with any BS. Maybe I am naive–football is full of prima donnas and teams no doubt have personnel issues, but the Dutch seem to suffer from more of this than most teams.
Since I haven’t followed Italian team for a while, I’m quite surprise by their new squad. Cassano used to be a really trouble-maker for the team and everything I read about Balloteli is the troubles he’s involved with.
But when the match starts, these 2 guys sang their anthem seriously and are playing really good so far.
Couldn’t help comparing this situation to our troublesome squad. You’d reasonably think controlling van Persie, Hunter, Affelay, van der Wiel, etc. would be easy than controlling Cassano/Balloteli, would you not?
3. Robben thinks he’s Jesus
Arjen Robben can’t handle criticism. He genuinely thinks he is the saviour of the team.
Jan, where did you read this? If anything, he should feel humbled by his important misses at the WC. Robben is (maybe was) one of my fav Oranje ever but he’s proven many times a winner he is not.
I thought Arsenal *requested* a media blackout for Van Persie until the Euros were over? That being said, given everything that’s happened, I would definitely like to revamp the whole team. Maybe some of the problem players can be given an opportunity again the future if their attitudes improve and they can still play at a top-level, but they have to understand that their positions in the team are not guaranteed.
Real darn shame about Afellay, if it’s true. I had always thought of him as a humble and hard-working individual. I really hope Financial Fair Play can help Eredivisie clubs be a bit more competitive and have a higher-quality of play; all the problem players seem to play or have played for top foreign clubs where they’re overpaid and over-hyped and over-marketed. If we had gone with a pure Eredivisie line-up during these Euros, we wouldn’t have gotten far, but we also might not have been dealing with over-inflated egos. As it stands, we might even have had better results.
OranjeBoom: the way this team played, it will not matter if Hunter started instead of Van Persie (perhaps with the exception of Denmark game, we never know now). They will not get enough chance. Hunter had one chance vs Portugal.
Keko: I agree with Demi about good analysis. However I still think we can play with one holding midfield if we can play somewhere between Spain and Germany. Put pressure on opponents when we don’t have possession (like Spain), passing game, direct attacking when we have the ball (like Germany, Spain is just too slow). This requires the players to be very fit and the back four is very good. For that number 7 that you still have an open spot, my vote is for Narsingh with Ola John is the backup.
Hien, Spain and Germany have box to box midfielders. That is why they can play like that. In our case Sneijder/Persie/Robben/etc do not track back a lot so I think this is why we need the two holding midfielders.
I am all in favor for dropping the pure holding midfielders like DeJong (although I have huge respect for the guy) but with our frontline not tracking back this should be really difficult/impossible to achieve.
All of our stars are in the frontline and that’s how they play. For us to become spain, we will either have to re-train them 🙂 or drop them.
We got them to track back in WK2010 but now when we ask them they say “shut your trap man” 🙂
Just came out too, that most Oranje players were happy that Robben lost the CL finals.
“Can you imagine how arrogant and cocky he’d be if he would have won that??”
And apparently there were some fights and knocking on the practice going on ( between players) and one time there was a bottle of hard liquor on the table!
I also heard the whole group is sick of Huntelaar and his antics. Some players might even say “if Hunter is selected, I’m not coming”
Well apparently the French team have caught the “internal affairs” virus with Nasri, Ben Arfa y Diarra going against their coach. At one point, Nasri told a french reporter to “go to hell”. Even tough France have had their problems since WC’10 but hey welcoming them back to the club isn’t a bad gesture hehe’
i’d say “what da heck?”
need serious proof for these kind of accusations.
Sneijder says the story about Hunter is “absolute nonsense” and that “it’s simply not true.” Not surpsised either, he’s not the type, never been the type to cause hassle. Sounds like someone looking for a scapegoat.
By SamVR, June 24, 2012 10:55, 7389 views, Source: NOS
Wesley Sneijder has a reaction to the NOS said that the reports of the NRC newspaper around Klaas-Jan Huntelaar is absolute nonsense. The NRC reported this week that Huntelaar is impossible in Orange and probably never will be summoned.
“Absolute nonsense,” said Sneijder by phone from Ibiza. “If it would have been, Huntelaar had made himself impossible, that I had something real to say. It is simply not true.”
The NRC released the information about the so-called nagging of Huntelaar out based on information from some players from Orange who wanted to remain anonymous. The Standard suspect that it is Afellay and / or Robin van Persie. (Photo: VI-Images)
“I would suggest the players take the initiatieve now and to iron out the rough spots. They need to talk. Get it out of their system. If they don’t, the coach will do it (whether it’s Bert or someone else. Now they need to stand up and take their responsibility.”
i used to like this guy, not anymore, he is disgusting.
arrogant for being a bench warmer at barca! thanks to god he is not iniesta or xavi he wouldve spit in other players faces then!!
Ajax defender Jan Vertonghen is off to Spurs for 12 Mio euros.
Another steal, as the commentators in the BPL will most likely say….
The club wasn’t going to get any more for him than €12M for a key reason. Vertonghen only wanted to go to Spurs and the one big club than does need a central defender like him, Barca, were not interested and seem to want to spend big money on Jordi Alba.
i would have been happy if vertonghen had signed to barca. they don’t want to spend big money on (the surprisingly good) jordy alba: valencia ask 15 m,barca want to pay 12-13. they have 35 m to spend – they could have signed both alba and vertonghen,especially because barca have two priorities: a central defender and a left back. it means rvp probably won’t come this year (he should remain at arsenal). ibi affelay will be used as a midfielder. i wouldn’t be surprised if he became busquets’ substitute. he can play as holding midfielder.
i’m very sad to read all these rumours about infighting,but after a bad tournament it’s always like this. just look at france – journalists talk about infightings,nasri’s bad behaviour,etc.
goal.com obviously wrote an article on robben and his missed penalty in the cl final.
the new oranje manager (if bert goes) has to deal with the big egos problem,and it won’t be easy. i’m not sure who’s the best person for this,my first candidate,frank is not the best in this kind of people management (just remember his last two years at barca,ronaldinho,deco,etc.). are these big egos (especially rvp,robben and in a lesser degree huntelaar) really important for the future oranje? i’m not the right person to judge it,but some changes are really needed.
btw…since we r discussing about coaches…something irrelevant though…wim Koevermans is the new indian national team coach….as always great read jan but very dissapointing to read about the player issues..gullit is right..the players need to settle this and own up for these things…unless we solve all these shit…we wont go far…
Well apparently the French team have caught the “internal affairs” virus with Nasri, Ben Arfa y Diarra going against their coach. At one point, Nasri told a french reporter to “go to hell”. Even tough France have had their problems since WC’10 but hey welcoming them back to the club isn’t a bad gesture hehe’
Some quotes from JB on the previous article and others agree’d with…
“One of the biggest problems we saw was the enormous gap between the attacking players and the defensive players, normally space that would be occupied by midfield / linking players…Sneijder and Van der Vaart consider themselves to be attacking playmakers whose responsibilities primarily include scoring, but do not include linking play and tracking back defensively…Currently, due to team selection, formation, and/or player effort and attitude, Holland does not have workmanlike midfielders who are willing to link play and who have both attacking and defending capabilities — essentially like Schweinsteiger, Xabi Alonso, etc…Sneijder and Van der Vaart are great players – two of my favorites – but they are either physically incapable or unwilling to play that type of role anymore. They did well in the roles that they did play, but the role that was truly needed was significantly absent from the team.”
This basically answers my question if Sneijder could have the discipline to play the Xavi role if a new manager switches to a 4-3-3. I really have my doubts. I know VdV doesn’t have the fitness for it and he’s obsessed with scoring so he’ll leave holes. I think as long as we have some of these experienced players in the side we’ll have to stick with a 4-2-3-1 but we should replace players. Particularly the Center Backs and Holding players. They need to be able to attack and defend (Fer-Strootman)
>I think as long as we have some of these experienced players in the side we’ll have to stick with a 4-2-3-1 but we should replace players.
it seems like there is a consensus building up that with this current generation the BvM 4-2-3-1 with the two holding MFs was/is the only way.
Not that I am absolving Bert from his mistakes and responsibility in this fiasco but there is a reason the BvM 4-2-3-1 worked so well for so long. It perfectly matched the skills of the current squad.
With the attacking 4 we have now (Wes/Robin/Arjen/Hunter(etc) there is no other way. If we want to play like Spain we need to drop at least two out of this 4 and rebuild the middle line/system …
I agree. I don’t know how much fans will like that. But in order for the system to change the core of this generation would have to go.
Jam, Andre Oijer was on studio sports last night and he said that problems are always there on a team but they get exacerbated when the team loses. As I said many times the problems were there too in South Africa but we kept winning so they were attenuated by the dynamics of victories. This is pretty typical of any sports.
One point about KJH and VP. We all know KJH is a goal poacher but frankly he failed. Compare his performance to that of Mario Gomez. Gomez touched the ball a total of 28 sec against us and he scored 2 goals. KJH had a golden chance against Denmark and he failed. VP is so much better in all other compartments, he likns up play better, is more technical, his movement off the ball is remarkable. Bottom line he brings so much to the team compared to KJH. So if KJH does not score with the half chance he has, he should not play. This is what made Ruud so deadly.
I agree. When any team is winning, regardless the tactical decisions, all is well and everyone is happy. Well, except Cruijff! Is he ever happy with the KNVB’s tactics, ever?
But you touched on something that I have been screaming about since 2009. The exclusion of van Nistelrooy. Yes, I know he is now retired and obviously not an option, but I was referencing what he represented. The deadly sniper who can “just score”. I said (regarding the 2010 WK) that we would find ourselves down 1-0 or 2-1 late in a match, and have to get “that goal”. Who better at that time than Ruud? Possibly Huntelaar is the answer for WK 2014 and beyond.
I don’t know, but I do know that we have to distance ourselves from the obsession with the “perfect” or “beautiful goal”. For all of Bergkamp’s sublime skill and majesty, he even admitted himself that he lacked that “killer instinct”. He was never a sniper. He was an artist. What Oranje needs in our arsenal (no pun intended!) is a Gerd Muller, or a new van Nistelrooy. We need that cold-hearted bastard who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat with less than 5 minutes on the clock.
Demi, what you said is exactly what I want Dutch to play. Forwards track back, defenders join attack, passing/possession but more direct than Spain. It is closer to total football that we enjoy. We cannot play like 2 units with a gap in the middle. If players do not fit into the system then they need to adapt or we select the players that can. They need to buy into the team game. One thing I am frustrated is the players lose their composure and forget about the team game (trying to win the game themselves). I saw Robben, Afellay forgetting to pass, Sneijder wanting to take a long shot.
From what I read it sounds like a rebuild is a needed. As much as I like to keep Hunter and VDV, they need to accept their role. As Jan said, the coach need to have discipline and respect from player. He cannot bend rule for anyone. This is why Michels won Euro 88 and nickname General. How he handled the 88 team is perhaps a lesson to learnt from.
Ruud VN is special. He just does not have any luck with national squad but he is lethal when needed most of the time. I recalled that awkward goal in 2004 against Germany and also the goal vs Russia in 2008.
Van Gol against Russia is one of my most favorite goals ever 🙂 Love the goal love RVN … awesome guy, born in the wrong “in between” …
I understand what you like but with the stars we have in the front, one has to make a very hard decision and get rid of at least two of them to start building a spain-style team.
Because total football is not when defenders help building, it is also when attacking players help defending. Go tell Robben 🙁
a complete rebuild will take until EK2016 to show results. Personally I really do not want to miss the WK2014 even if we still play some variation of Bert’s 4-2-3-1 … We have to wait for the new generation to see what they can do.
By the way…
Why isn’t anyone talking about Ricky van Wolfswinkle? All that guy knows how to do is score goals. From what I have been able to surmise, he has been doing good in the Portugal leagues.
i watch sporting every week i can, (in east coast of america they always play at 3 or later when no one else is playing,) van wolfswinkel, he’s not very clinical, hes almost there, but not quite yet, he could be better than huntelaar and van nistelrooy, he has skills to go one on one with defenders, go out into the wing, hold on to the ball and cross it. link with midfielders too, hes great, i say better than luuk de jong, but hes below huntelaar and van persie. and he does have bad stretches of games
Italy v England
I found myself secretly rooting for Italy now, funny how it all go full circle, Italy is playing good attacking football these days. Only a matter of time before they score in this match.
Pirlo is really a maestro.
Amazing how Italy have improved their possession game. They are playing nice football and have been very unlucky so far.
It will be an irony if England can somehow steal a goal or even more ironic, if they win this match via penalty shootout!
I like Pirlo as well and he is all over the fields. Perhaps Strootman can do this if PSV and Oranje groom him. I do not see VDV, Sneijder or De Jong doing this. I don’t mind if Italy win this Euro. Once Oranje lost, it does not matter who will win for me. It is good that Ferenc mentioned about Frank’s last year with Barca. When Guardiola came in he decided to go with Messi and then cleaned the team up. Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto eventually left.
Sneijder is somewhat similar to Pirlo, probably not as good a passer but a better shooter of the ball. But Pirlo cover the pitch better than Sneijder (or any other Oranje squad members this year) and it’s amazing he can still do this at his age.
Xavi/Iniesta, Ribery and Oezil always get the kudos but I really think Pirlo is the best, again, he’s much older than these guys.
Don’t forget, the whole team of Italy is built around him. This is the main problem Bert faces: too many chiefs (Persie, Vaart, Robben, Sneijder, Hunter) and not enough indians… (Schaars, Strootman, De Jong, Van Bommel, Kuyt)
Don’t forget, the whole team of Italy is built around him.
Still you can’t see huge ego from his body language, he even let Balotelli hit the free kick toward the end. In addition to his technique, I’m just amazed at how tireless he is, he was pretty much everywhere back defending and first to distribute ball upfront.
It shows that a player can still be worldclass over 30 if he is in physical and mental form. Pirlo and Xavi are the best examples.
At least there is “justice” …. Italy deserved to win this match.
Pirlo’s penalty is the best I’ve seen (I hope he really meant to kick that soft and it wasn’t a mis-kick)
He scored a “Panenka Penalty” a la 1976 Euro. Youtube “Panenka Penalty”, and you will see for yourself.
Believe me that was 110% intentional 😀 lol
Even stronger put: this penalty gave the other Italian takers the confidence to win it. Pirlo broke the English mental strength 😉
I think Hodgson would do us some good (defensively, his good ol’ chip and charge offensive tactic was a shame). Have seen Carroll sprint 50 meters to help the defense a couple times.
Italy fully deserved. I think this might be the nicest football I have ever seen from Italy. I still think Germany will be too much for them though.
i really hope italy will eliminate the overhyped german team
Germany is not really overhyped, is it? Also, Germany hasn’t won any trophy since 1996, despite being so close in the last 3 tournaments. It’s simply their time. All though I have to say this is the first time I really like how Italy is playing.
Together with Spain and Italy, Germany has shown, by far, the best football. Its not a hype no. Not in my opinion, they play really well.
Italy is missing the Inzaghi type of player in attack. Cassano and Balotelli are not convincing for me. They will give germans a very hard time though and I wouldn’t be surprised if they went through to final and win it all. Amazing to watch ageless Buffon, Pirlo tirelessly play with passion and pride. Bravo.
ah damn. Italians though…watched at a pub in manhattan, good mix of italian and english fans, i was wearing my RVP jersey…some italians fans walked by and said “at least we arent holland”…ouch.
I didnt have a sizeable crew with me to talk back, but i still wore my jersey with pride!
Well Done Paul – Salute YOU !!!
Bert Van Marwijk looks likely to stay on as coach.
oh man, hot off the presses, Bert Van Marwijk Will stay on as coach
good luck finding a new formations. status quo time
Def: Pieters, Douglas, Heitinga, Van der Wiel
Def: mid: De Jong, Van der vaart
Off Mid: Robben, Sneijder, Afellay
CF: Van Persie
i would guess we stay with 4-2-3-1, only changes i can think of is, douglas in, and someone to partner with nigel de jong, i’m guessing strootman, or van der vaart.
Damn ! this is not good .
Well , i’ll try to be realistic .
I don’t think that we will win the WC 2014 . Actually no European team will win it . it will Be Either Argentina ” most probably ” or Brazil ” Even if they are not good enough ” .
So , We have to prepare a new generation to be ready to win The next Euro and WC 2018 , and play our beautiful total football in the next WC .
to be honest i don’t see this happening with Bert .
Man, I hate it that my prediction came out true about BvM staying. Just like Vikram predicted our disaster I correctly predicted this outcome and I really hate it. I have lost the last bit of respect for BvM, I was faintly hoping that he would be a man and quit with honor. To hell with KNVB and Bert. I am baout to throw up.
D I S G U S T I N G
Terrible decision by KNVB…shit.
How can these problems be fixed? This is very very bad!
yuck Ad reports today vMarwijk will stay, KNVB evaluation leaked, no reason for knvb to dismiss vmarwijk nor any of the staff etc… I cannot belive this… knvb, interested what outcry this will cause the next coming days…
I still wonder why did the kvnb extended the contract with Bert before the Euro !
what a crappy decision 😕 .
Caroll is a total joke and shames football players. The guy is a donkey. Forza Italia. It is the only team I don’t hate.
You like Italy? You must not be from the nyc area…the most annoying fans and people…i was routing for england but man did they suck
England learned how to park the bus really well, even Italy now knows how it feels to play against (old) Italy 🙂
I used to hate Italy but in the semi final this year, they gotta be the team I hate the least. I wouldn’t mind seeing them beating Germany and win the title. It will be better than seeing Portugal, Spain or Germany wins (in that order of hate).
I thought the decision about Bert was supposed to be made on July 6. Looks like that was a hogwash. I don’t understand why KNVB is blindly copying the French formula of 2008-2010 by persisting with a failed coach (like Domenech) just because in the past he somehow (by luck) took a team to the WC final. If the same set of players are retained, then either Holland won’t even qualify for 2014 WC and if they somehow do, will be knocked out in the first round like France in 2010.
That decision was supposed to be made *by* July 6. Just to clarify things.
Italy deserved it – Pirlo is really a reincarnated Dutch Master – England couldnt hold the ball for more than 10 seconds!
Paul, trust me I know their fans are annoying. We live in Wash DC and my kids have played many times against teams from NY with many Italians, totally rude and obnoxious. But I still would take Italy over the super hyped England, which frankly is beyond shameful. They put 9 guys in defense with a triple wall, can’t hold on to the ball more than 10 seconds (I agree Hedonistix) and have players like Andy Carroll, who is a total disgrace. Mind you he is the one who took Kuijt’s place at Liverpool this year!!!
So I do say enough with England. And like Paul I am wearing my Holland jersey everywhere I go. Proud of it.
Comments from Van Hanegem: Get rid of the old defenders: Boula, Heitinga, Schaars, Mathijsen, Van Bommel (of course). Start with a core of Sneijder, Van Persie, vd Vaart, Huntelaar and Robben. Then fill in the pieces.
An unorthodox suggestion:
You know, If the Oranje were to play just today, the most progressive and surprisely coherent squad I can see would be this one (4-3-3):
(Because V.d.Wiel need to really gain back his pace).
(So, in the last tournaments we’ve really, really lack build-up from behind. No, We were awful at building up! that’s why for moments we were boring and slow as hell. Then Strootman is fast, strong, tall, gifted and with the mentality of a creative midfilder…so, Why not?)
(More mature than Willems)
NIGEL DE JONG
(The best playmaker in the world, mind you, but in a rijkaardian 4-3-3, like the one he used at Barca, he must play the left midfielder role with a little bit more sacrifice and discipline. Different from the just-the-final-pass genius role he played with BvM, the role that made him a star, but also, as I see it, the role that supported the entire idea of the two holding midfielders)
(Of course Robben will be back. But, for now he just need to rest from Oranje, gain his confidence back at Bayern, succeed, leave the anxiety of the past months behind, and then come back to an Oranje team more constructed, one that could protect him and not left him in evidence).
(¿Or Huntelaar? Fuck! That question is hard!)
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