When things aren’t going your way, visualising success and a turn-around helps. What also helps, is to look at situations that are or were even worse! To give you a pick-me-up.

On special request, an analysis (14 years after the fact) of the biggest Oranje Fail in history (arguably).

So, we failed miserably at the WC1990 (with Gullit, Van Basten, Koeman, Rijkaard, Wouters) but at least we were there! We failed at the Euros2012 but it could have been different if we took our chances vs Denmark. And again: at least we were there! And yes, the Euro2016 qualifications were a shamble, but at least we had the excuse of a generation gap and absentees (Robben!).

In 2000, however, we came out of a Euro2000 tournament we could have won and in which we played some (not all) good football. In 1998, at the WC in France, we actually could have won the whole bloody thing (made it to the semis of course).

oranje port line up

So when “inexperienced” Rijkaard resigned after the devastating freak loss vs Italy in 2000, the Dutch Federation decided to give Louis van Gaal his due. The former Ajax and Barca coach was considered the top man for the job in Holland. He was seen as the new football messiah after Cruyff. And more to the point: Louis van Gaal made it clear that HE wanted the job. Now, the problem with Louis is this: yes, he is a very good coach. And yes, he demonstrated he works well with young players (he gets into their head like a real Svengali). But…he also is a narcissistic and dominant bully. And typically for ego-driven people, he wanted the job for him. Not to further Oranje. To be of service to Dutch football. But purely for his resume. The cool thing with people like him (Donald Trump is another example): they are very open about their motivations. “I want this on my resume!”. This is also what he proclaimed when going for the Man United job. “I want to have a title in England on my resume!”. It is all about Louis.

If I was a club or federation director, for me that would be the key reason not to hire him. Coz wherever Louis goes: you might get trophies, but you’ll definitely invite trouble.

Nistel2002

Louis stepped into the job thinking he was going for gold. For starters: he really thinks he is the best coach. Secondly, he would be reunited with his Class of 1995 of Ajax success. Thirdly, he figured as an NT coach you have so much time on your hand, someone like him must be able to forge a winning team.

But as usual, he didn’t assess the situation properly. Narcissistic personalities think they can manipulate reality in to something they envision. “Make it so!”.

So, in hindsight, it is clear that: 1) he might be the best club coach but he didn’t “get” what it takes to be an NT manager. It’s a different role altogether! 2) he might have liked the reunion with his former posse but the players were done with him. Most of them had progressed in their football career, with experiences under other coaches. And most of them if not all, did not like to be treated as if they were still 21 years old. Cocu, the De Boers, Van Hooijdonk, Van der Sar, Stam, Witschge… all pushing 30 by now. Mature players. They had all seen Louis’ act by now and they knew all the lines of the script. And 3)…Louis used the time as NT manager to accept a second job at the KNVB: he also acted as the Technical Director. As a result, he developed a masterplan for the KNVB (not unlike Hans van Breukelen is doing now) with a manifest of how amateur coaches needed to work and be trained to do so. A plan that was marvelous as a PhD thesis but unpractical to execute. He spent weeks in lobbying, presenting, debating, clashing with others to push his straightjacket vision onto the pro clubs and amateurs alike. The KNVB would invest in hiring dozens of “Van Gaal clones” to push his vision.

stam 2000

Nothing ever came of that. Icons like Cruyff, Van Hanegem and Wim Jansen torpedoed the plan and most of the clubs felt Van Gaal should focus nicely on qualifying with the NT.

As a club coach, Louis would work as much as he could with the players. Not doing tactics only, but perfecting their skills, working on their mentality, their world vision, the way to behave, think, eat, drink, probably also how to have sex.

As an NT coach, you need to make an environment in which players enjoy themselves. A break from the club. And make sure they stay fit, but don’t work them. Don’t make them work on skills. Don’t try and push their fitness levels. You simply do not have the time to do it. Work on mentality, confidence, tactics. That’s all.

Interestingly enough, in 2001 Van Gaal did state in a press conference that he was ready to abandon the Oranje 4-3-3 and use a two striker system: “I used to select on availability and form of players and the confidence I have in certain players. But with the lack of world class wingers and an overflow of central strikers (Kluivert, Van Nistelrooy, Makaay, Van Hooijdonk, Hasselbaink) I might be tempted to abandon the Dutch style of play.”

nl port 2001

Van Gaal overdid it. And after this abysmal qualifications, the Van Gaal proteges of yore, the De Boer’s, Reiziger, Davids et al said they got sick and tired of his antics. Annoyed and agitated with his dominant nature and his treatment.

Anther example of amateurism at the KNVB, as any sane football expert could have told you: Louis is not NT material (yet). He needed this fuck up to perform well in 2014 (again, with younger players he could mould and some older players he simply left alone).

And yes, I have heard the excuses: “it was a tough group”… well…it wasn’t. Republic of Ireland? Yes, always difficult, but we should have beaten them twice in the group stages. The home game, we trailed 0-2 until late in the game and got back to 2-2 thanks to a wonder strike by Gio van Bronckhorst, not unlike his WC2010 semi finals goal. I’ll try and find footage of it (never was able to actually…).

And Portugal, well…they were good. They had an amazing squad, with Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta, Jao Pinto, Nuno Gomes… But hey…., did you see who we had? Kluivert. Van Nistelrooy. Makaay. De Boer. De Boer. Seedorf. Davids. Stam. Van Bommel. Sar. Overmars.

bommel keane

Another excuse: “we had so many injuries and absentees”… True. De Boer and Davids were unjustly accused of using doping. Stam and Numan had injuries. It always happens. But with this squad, Van Gaal should have found solutions.

In the home game vs Portugal, we did have some bad luck though, although still…something that could have been avoided.

The first goal Portugal scored was a fluke. Some idiot in the stands blew on his whistle. Oranje was pressing but thought the ref stopped the game. Half the Dutch team came to a still stand. Portugal didn’t. They took the ball and went on to score.

Portugal scored their second as Reiziger made a mistake. He was put on as left back. When in possession he decided to go back to his right foot and play the ball back, but it never got to De Boer, who wasn’t able to stop the turn around and Portugal pounced and scored.

I will leave the conclusion of all this to you.

So we drew at home vs Rep of Ireland and Portugal.

jason-mcateer-ian-harte-republic-of-ireland-netherlands-holland-2001-world-cup-qualifier_3349361

We needed a big result away against both. We outplayed Portugal away. 0-2 up with 15 minutes to go. No problem whatsoever. But Van Gaal wanted more than a win. He wanted sweet revenge. So he put two more strikers on. Hoping to humiliate Portugal, but all went south. A red card for Davids. A last minute soft penalty for Figo. End result 2-2.

Still in it, Holland needed a win away vs Rep of Ireland. In the run up, we played a friendly versus England and Kluivert scored two goals on Anfield to boost morale. But the Ireland game was a drama. We had good chances in the first 10 minutes, Kluivert even hit the post and the team felt we could cruise to a win. But the Irish fighting spirit got the better of us. Playing on a bad pitch and with a rugby mentality in the team, it was McAteer who famously scored the only goal of the match and blocked Holland from making it to the World Cup.

In summary (my personal conclusion): some top players were at an age where they lost their desire. Going to the Oranje camp to play and train under Van Gaal felt like a chore for them. The fun was gone. And Van Gaal’s attitude didn’t help. He was unable to refresh the squad and bring young fresh players when required. Van Gaal overdid it in practice and seemed to think qualifying was not a big drama. A necessary evil for him to shine at the World Cup.

1 September 2001; Kevin Kilbane, Republic of Ireland, in action against Holland's Mario Melchiot. Republic of Ireland v Holland, World Cup Qualifier, Lansdowne Road, Dublin. Soccer. Picture credit; Brendan Moran / SPORTSFILE

1 September 2001; Kevin Kilbane, Republic of Ireland, in action against Holland’s Mario Melchiot. Republic of Ireland v Holland, World Cup Qualifier, Lansdowne Road, Dublin. Soccer. Picture credit; Brendan Moran / SPORTSFILE

In typical Van Gaal style, his press conferences and media presentations were as bad as ever. Not unlike his antics as Man United coach. The media were the enemy. Everyone wanted to attack him.

His press conferences went from: “I have changed. I won’t be insulting journalists anymore. I understand exactly what the KNVB needs and I can do it.”…

To: “SO YOU’RE ALL HAPPY I HOPE? WE DIDN’T QUALIFY??? SO YOU CAN WRITE WHAT A DUMBASS I AM? IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!”

And he was the only one to “get” it. Sometimes, he used this to have his team rise up in defence and bond over all the drama. This time around, the players had a gut full of him and basically never stepped up to the occasion…

louis boos

Interestingly enough, Van Gaal claimed in his final presser that the Federation were happy for him to stay on. But after he spoke with a number of key players, he decided against it. “I didn’t ask them outright if they wanted me out. But I did talk about the way they liked to be managed and guided. Their wishes went against my beliefs. I rule out coincidences. I don’t like a “loose” style of management. So, it was not possible for me to go on.”

Van Gaal did want to stay on as Technical Director to implement his master plan. Luckily, the KNVB decided against it. General Manager Kesler: “Even though I know Louis would not govern in his grave, as the expression goes, I don’t think it would be healthy to have a team manager coming in, while Louis van Gaal – his predecessor – becomes his boss. That is not healthy. The Master Plan is excellent but we’ll need to execute this without Louis van Gaal.”

Holland – Rep of Ireland 2-2

The home game versus Portugal:

And the away game versus Portugal:

And for masochists, the away game vs Rep of Ireland…

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97 responses to “WC2002: Oranje’s biggest fail….”

  1. Sybe Pals says:

    Thanks Jan, good idea wilson!

    Wow what a strike from Toornstra just now!!

    I notice de Vrij is back on the bench for Lazio today 👍

  2. Emmanual says:

    Neither Depay nor Blind is playing for MAnu..i think even Daley Blind days are numbered…Depay is not even in squad as Jose see he is not up to it..

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Same with TFM.
      Or – maybe they will all last at ManChelsea Utd longer than Mourinho 😉

    • Jan says:

      Tiju, don’t be so predictable. Blind came on as a sub vs West Ham and he has had ample playing time. Mournho has a lot of players and he rotates based on tactics needed.

      If Blind has no future at Man U, does this apply to Fabregas and Willian at Chelsea? Rashford? Giroud at Arsenal? Toure at Man City? Can at Liverpool?

      Don’t be a dick all the time please.

      • Emmanual says:

        See Jan i just said both are not playing…nowadays Blind is always on bench which is not good sign…Depay is deservedly thrown out..TFM is unlucky..

        • Sybe Pals says:

          No – you said Blinds days were numbered!

          Maybe check an ‘e-manual’ on how to scroll up to read what you wrote hahaha

          • Emmanual says:

            i felt in that way…he wont be a regular anymore…i can see through Jose mourihno head..Unless injury to many defenders..

          • Sybe Pals says:

            Yes, which is more than saying just that both are not playing.

            If Jan says quit being a dick, so then you should say “yes sorry for being a dick, Jan – thanks providing this place for us to discuss Dutch football”

  3. Sybe Pals says:

    Strootman with a nice bit of play for a goal v Lazio
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IFTV_Official/status/805434243723722752

    Then gets yellow and a little trouble for giving a little shower to Cataldi who loses his mind and gets sent off from the bench for fighting haha
    https://mobile.twitter.com/TransfersCalcio/status/805435324134526977

    Roma win 2-0
    Kishna played the last 10 mins, de Vrij (!) and Hoedt stayed on the bench but judging by that Wallace play for Strootmans goal one of them should play their next one!
    de Vrij no doubt, as he has proven to be massive for Lazio while unfortunately Hoedt hasn’t been able to get himself a starting spot in de Vrij’s absence..

  4. Sybe Pals says:

    Ake scores again with an injury time game winner over Liverpool! good for him
    Was getting critisism for the 1st 2 Liverpool goals (though more Boruc mistakes IMO), but had another pretty decent match at CB for Bournemouth – although commentators criticize the manager for using Ake at CB rather than LB. Funny since many of us want to see him play DM!

  5. jean_venette says:

    Hey Jan,what ever happened to Bryan Roy? How come he was not part of the 1994 WC squad? How did his career ended?

  6. wilson says:

    Jan first and for most I think the vaccum left of Dennis Bergkamp who retired from international scene after 2000 was immense and which went unnoticed jus beause of the hype that followed after van gaals appointment as coach.For a decade he was an integral part of the team no matter where he played. With him retiring and Van Gaal overseeing that and opting for 2 man up front it was always going to be a gamble. I think sneijder and van der vaart typically filled in that vaccum when they burst on the scene at Ajax and in 2004.

    Secondly even though Van Nistelrooy came on the back of a great season at PSV in eredivisie during the qualifers,for me Hasselbaink was
    Was more complete striker than him and with his form at Chelsea,both him and Kluivert should have been van gaals starting two man upfront.the chemistry was jus not there between nistelrooy and kluilvert as both were traditional no 9s.Hasselbaink was different ,pace,power and was more mobile.

    I remember watching that famous win at 2002 WC in which south korea defeated Italy . The commentators briefly talked about the the dutch team and said it was a shame that they weren’t there especially with the talents they had.

    • Emmanual says:

      “””””””Secondly even though Van Nistelrooy came on the back of a great season at PSV in eredivisie during the qualifers,for me Hasselbaink was
      Was more complete striker than him and with his form at Chelsea””””””””””””””
      Seriously???????

    • Emmanual says:

      LVg made a blunder mistake vs Portugal away match…or else we would have been safe..Evry dutch coach does it…
      Advocate–Roben—-Bosevelt-2004EC
      San mark–Nestelrooy—kuyt-2006WC
      Bert—–Van dervaart–kuyt-2010WC
      Bert—-Strootman–Bommel 2012EC..
      No danny Blind
      kongolo–DalyBlind
      Annholt—Memphis
      always they find a way to do this

  7. wilson says:

    Liked Akes positioning from the two games he has played.even on manes goal he was only one who made the run unfornately the bounce was not in his favour and mane beat him to it but his awareness did stand out.let’s hope he continues to play till march next year. Would love to see him get the nod at DM.

    Zivkovic also received another overwhelming praise from his coach for his on going outings at Utrecht.in an interview he said he always watches Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang of Dortmund and wants to get better like him.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Good for Zivkovic, 6 goals and 2 assists now in his 15 appearances.
      Ayoub (22 year old, little CM) is also playing very well again this season for Utrecht – had a great assist for their first Barazite goal on the weekend, albeit v lowly ADO.

      Would love to see how these guys do in better competition!

      • Jan says:

        I really rate Ayoub. Great energy. Needs to come to Feyenoord!

        • wilson says:

          which position do you have him locked. Erik ten Hag has been deploying 4-1-2-1-2 at Utrecht. Ayoub has mostly featured on that left CM in diamond formation midfeild. I think Utretch have a good squad and a good coach. if they can break into top 3 they should be able to make a statment,but again even at Feyenoord as usually they will always be overshadowed by the likes of Donny Van De Beek and others coming up at Ajax.

  8. Ruud says:

    Should we give some chances to Ryan Babel, my favorite player in the past, especially when he played for Ajax & Liv. He’s now playing for Deportivo and quite good form.

    His shoot is very strong & his dribbling is ok i think

    If i remember correctly, he’s our best talent after Sneijder/Vaart/Persie but not reached world class. 🙂

  9. Emmanual says:

    Martin De Roon is week in and out performing well.So is Nathan Ake…But in NT we are still struggling in defense..

  10. wilson says:

    Stoke will also welcome back Ibrahim Afellay in few weeks time and coach Mark Hughes Hus anxiously waiting for his return.his rehab has gone smooth and has started engaging in full contact training.

    Could be an option at 10 if he can replicate his form of last season.

    As expected most of the players with more game time are striving towards their full potential though they are some who are not playing in their preferred position but still its good to see them playing more.

  11. wilson says:

    Jus hoping big time Buttner finds a new club.

  12. Sybe Pals says:

    Very disappointing for PSV, failing to beat Rostov (could not learn from Ajax and underestimated them) means not even Europa qualification so they are out of Europe.
    0-0 again for them.
    Bergwijn created the most but not enough, and nothing at all from the middle – their pass map looking like a massive U.
    Worried for Propper, has not been able to find his form from last season at all. Ramselaar looks lively sometimes but cannot seem to make much happen either.

  13. aanvalluh says:

    I think there’s an interesting connection between this post and the previous two, Jan. You can imagine someone at the KNVB ascribing the mystery of why a team like this didn’t succeed to the lack of a ‘winning mentality’ in Dutch football. But trying stuff like visualization and motivational speakers on players down the ladder is nonsense, in my mind. If they succeed in making the backup keeper at ADO feel like a winner, that’s nice, but it certainly isn’t going to benefit us in gaining that elusive World Cup. It seems to me that the focus, as Wim Janssen says, should be on the very best players, on making them world class and building in that team a desire and an expectation that they will win every game when they suit up for Oranje.

    Seeing Oranje lose or tie sub-par opponents is one of the most frustrating things for me. Narrowly losing to France, shortly after their EC finals appearance, with a short-sided team, I’m fine with that. Not rising to the occasion to beat minnows by a big margin, that drives me crazy, and I think it comes from some of the lack of desire that you described the 2002 squad. Look at the difference in Memphis (don’t start, Tiju), from 2014 to when he became a “rising star” on his way to ManU. Totally different kind of hunger and passion, and it shows on the field. Or he’s just randomly working out too much without permission, which explains everything…

    • Emmanual says:

      @Annvalluh….For EMphis Memphis i still feel he has hunger to be a top player.He is waiting for his chances and he is getting but not as usual as in LVg days…For me he is skilled player who had some terrible advisers to bulk up and loose his stamina and pace.So he Bottled it..i am sure that he wants to play well and but you cannt play when ur body is not allowing like ur brain says.
      He is just 22 year old but looks like a 32 year old struggling for breathe and he lacks little speed which got him in to this stage so far.. once u loose that its hard to suceed…May be if try as playmaker no 10 he may succeed..but as winger its impossible..

      • Sybe Pals says:

        He said “DONT start” – not “please miss my point and go on yet another meaningless Memphis rant”

      • Jan says:

        GODDAMIT TIJU!!! No Man United player goes to the gym without the coaching staff allowing them. This I said now 100 times already and you keep harping on about it.

        You are now banned from ever writing a post with Memphis or Depay. Until I lift the ban!

  14. Ruud says:

    we have only one guy in this list

    http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-best-100-football-players-world-2016-100-91

    And this very very old palyer, he’s almost done his career,he’s also out of top 50. That’s shame.

    • Emmanual says:

      Infact our Kevin Strootman,Rick karsdorp,Bazoer,Ramseelar,Kevin diks,terence kongolo,Fosu mensah are real class and they are second to none when it come to class..
      Some players in the list are ;ittle overrated.unfortunatley strootman is/was injured and other guys doesnt play for NT ..thanks to Danny Blind..

  15. Ruud says:

    We can do a vote here to see where is new club for our likely departing boys:

    – van Dijk : MU|Liv|Everton ?
    – Bazoer: Barca|Arsenal|Liv?
    – Depay: Milan|Everton ?

    • wilson says:

      Van Dijk – Man City

      Bazoer – any team signing him will be huge gamble. dont think Barce and Arsenal will go fr him as both good back up options avaialbe at DM.

      Depay – definitely everton. wouldnt mind milan as there are on brink of a new dawn with current squad packed with youngsters.can jus feel he will jel in straight away.on the hand other I think epl will be good learning ground for him given the competitive level in epl and especially under koeman.

    • Oranjeboven says:

      Well Ruud, in my opinion it does not really matter for Van Dijk he is a beast and will succeed no matter where he goes! Though i would like to see him in Liverpool where he can become a legend!

      As for Bazoer well i dont really see him at Liverpool or Everton even if the coaches there would do him good! I really see his playstyle and character in Spain at Barcelona, or as a first step perhaps Sevilla! If it must be EPL well he does suit Arsenal best for me, and Arsene Wenger has shown that he can be good for our players!

      Depay well i would really like to see him with Koeman at Everton as the coach really believes in him and will find a place for him perhaps even a solution we cant see yet, as number 10 or even as Defensive Midfielder who knows! And Tiju stop writting Depay of he is still young and can still make it!

  16. Emmanual says:

    believe me we can screw this SO CALLED FRENCH team in their own backyard if we play
    ——Janssen———-Roben——-
    ————-Ramseelar————-
    —WIjnaldum————-Strootman
    ————–Fosu Mensah———–
    Kongolo—–Virgil—-Bruma—karsdorp
    ————-Zoet———————-
    on Bench
    ——Zivkovic———–Promes———
    ————–Sneijder—————–
    ——Clasie———–Bazoer———-
    —————-Ake/Deroon————-
    Annholt——Blind—–Devrij—Kevindiks
    ————-Cillessen——————-
    on stand bye
    Raidwald
    Locadia
    Tete
    Fer
    Williams
    Vanrhijn
    Nouri..

  17. Ruud says:

    El Ghazi will return first Ajax after he apologized Bosz for his bad behavior, good new ?

    His amazing solo during training with Jong ajax.

    http://freevideos.website/watch/720v7kgre-U/anwar-el-ghazi-amazing-goal-jong-ajax-vs-telstar-25-11-2016.html

    Started playing for NT from 2015 at 20 year olds of age, sure he’s talent, hope to see him to developing well next time to be higher level. 🙂

  18. Ruud says:

    Some good news for our lads

    – Ake has good form recently
    – El Ghazi return first squad of Ajax
    – Fosu: predictably, Mou will play him tonight game & put him at an important role.
    – Bazoer: Likely will leave ajax this winter break to step up bigger club/league ,hopefully this is good for him.

    – Tahith Chong: really impressive, only 17 year old now is member of U23 MU => awesome
    – Else ?

    • wilson says:

      It comes as no suprise that Ake is showing his potentially as he plays more and more.he had already proven before that he can play at the highest level when he was loaned to Reading and more at Watford respectivey but unfortunately danny blind couldn’t recognize his talent and ceiling and opted for players who were in teams driven by team work and individually are jus average.

      If you look at players like Luuk,propper,Willems,Klaassen now,there are all on backfoot, why,simply because of poor team play.

      The same concept Danny has been using in NT,continuity, players playing together (Ajax,PSV in CL).look at how it has turned out for them this year. I wonder what must be going through his mind.

      Ake had a good season at Watford and should he had been selected back then,even at LB,for sure by now it could have a better show than that of Willems whose selection was jus a waste of time and who couldn’t stop shitting and also others who are vunerable in some aspects.

      This is why I always feel individual capabilties is Paramount and that’s where player selection should be based on

  19. Sybe Pals says:

    I like Ake, but for me he is not at all “proven”, and has not done enough to earn a call up to the NT – yet!
    Though I do think he was close last season..

    I do agree he has a lot of potential, still – hard to believe it is almost since years since he left for Chelsea… I wonder what kind of player he’d be now had he not gone away so young.

    • wilson says:

      do you think players like klaassen,Propper,Luuk,willems will survive if they move to epl now. dont think so. even though they are playing in different position still Akes adaptability to epl gives him a big advantage over his compatriots who play 4 to 5 games in CL and EL. what has luuk,propper,klaassen done to get the call up. as I said earlier they play in a team driven by team work. once they come out of their clubs, its a totally different scenario and this is where they are on the back foot especially when they are playing with other players. this has been very evident at NT. Danny Rotating klaassen all over the park, propper,willems have all never lived up to expectation. when I see willems,i feel like crying,even if van annholt would have been given considerate game time compare to how much willems received,atleast he would have become lock at LB given his continuous outings at sunderland.

      • Sybe Pals says:

        I was only commenting on my opinion of Ake.

        I don’t think he is one of my top 2 players for us in any of the 3 positions he has played (from what I know).

        Personally I don’t think situation of those other 4 players has much to do with Ake being ready for the NT or not.. except maybe Willems, but Willems already lost his spot (and correctly IMO) and I’d imagine would have lots of work to do to get it back.

        Also, you make lots of assumptions about Blind which I disagree with, but those are also beside the point of Ake not being ready yet (again, just my opinion).

        • Emmanual says:

          Sybe …Ake is a top notch DM,he is alert,reader of the game,he strong and fast..for me its
          Ake Vs De roon Vs hendrix–main DM.
          Strootman Vs Clasie–
          Bazoer Vs Wijnaldum–

          • Sybe Pals says:

            When was the last time you saw Ake start a game in DM?

          • wilson says:

            pals when was last time you saw klaassen play as wing.

            there has been so many occasions in the past where players have used in different positions, contray to their preferred position. Saying he can not play DM because he hasnt played there is kind of crap to me. Ake has justified his selection when even he has got the nod regardless of where he started and I dont think DM will be an exception either. dont think you have to be genius to figure that one out. danny is rotated sonny boy all over the park even though he has shitted everywhere. his selection was based on what?

          • Sybe Pals says:

            No answer for my very simple question?

            Thought so, but lets wait see what your twin tiju has to say for himself.
            No doubt some more made up fantasyland video-game manager bullshit, as usual, sprinkled with a few super obvious points.

            In the meantime, lets dissect your post, wilson – I’ll go sentence by sentence so you might understand.

            “pals when was last time you saw klaassen play as wing.”
            Only once ever – October 10, why do you ask? do you think I would have played Klaassen there if I was manager? hell no. Regardless – nothing to do with me not preferring Ake for any of the 3 positions which I have seen him play (YET!).

            “there has been so many occasions in the past where players have used in different positions, contray to their preferred position.”
            sure, so what. IMO it does not usually work well.
            Still not my point..

            “Saying he can not play DM because he hasnt played there is kind of crap to me.”
            I do not say that
            Nothing to do with my question, and I dont ask you about what you think is crap – which reminds me, why dont you answer questions I ask you?

            “Ake has justified his selection when even he has got the nod regardless of where he started and I dont think DM will be an exception either.”
            Maybe. But so what. Is that supposed to convince me or something?
            And, you dont ‘think’ so? who cares – you also think van Dijk would be more agile if he got a haircut! hahaha

            “dont think you have to be genius to figure that one out.”
            I dont claim to be any genius, and regardless, you think lots of things that are not true and somehow you just type them out without even checking!
            Do you think that if an idea pops in to your mind, that it must be true?

            “danny is rotated sonny boy all over the park even though he has shitted everywhere.”
            All over the park? I have seen Blind play in 3 positions under his father, just like I have seen Ake in 3 different positions, and I have seen Blind make lots of mistakes before, also just like Ake, but I have ever seen either of them take a shit on the pitch. 😉

            “his selection was based on what?”
            Daley Blind’s selection? Ok so, we know you are not definitely not a genius either!
            Ridiculous question leads me to think that you do not know much about football – but, great job finding that question mark key bud!
            This time, I will not answer your question as it is just too obvious (and also because I know that you do know why he gets picked) – plus, you guessed it – STILL nothing to do with me not preferring Ake for any of the 3 positions which I have seen him play (YET!).

          • wilson says:

            Pals the only reason I asked about Klaassen was simply because if he can get the nod on wing then I don’t see why on earth Ake cant get the nod at DM
            When playing CB or LB.I was basically trying to link your statement to that of Danny selection of what you said about klaassen getting the nod on the wing based on one game

            So what exactly is your point here “When was the last time you saw Ake start a game in DM”

            If I remember correctly you have said this quiet often when ever Akes discussion has being brought up. You also early mentioned this “I like Ake, but for me he is not at all “proven”, and has not done enough to earn a call up to the NT – yet! Though I do think he was close last season”

            I don’t know what you point on the first statement was but the conclusion from both your statement for me is simply this.Ake can’t play at DM (When was the last time you saw Ake start a game in DM ) and then jus because he playing out of position (for me he is not at all “proven”, and has not done enough to earn a call up to the NT – yet!though I do think he was close last season.)

            Regardless of the above its the coach who should have the ability to scout and select not jus players but players who have the quality. How can you justify the mediocrity of eredivisie players in NT to that of Akes adpatibility to one of the toughest league and his talent if he is given the same opportunuty.the answer is we will never know as what Jan said in one of his earlier blog. But does this mean Ake shouldn’t get the nod.

            If you are saying Ake hasn’t played at DM,then he also never playef at played CB or LB before his loan but yet he was given the nod there by the coaches.why? simply because of his Ability.

          • Sybe Pals says:

            It was not a statement, it was a question (that you can’t even answer, haha).

            Is this a joke?
            I never said Ake can’t play DM
            But I can’t remember when it was and it is especially funny to me that you do not!

            In the word of the great Wayne Campbell:
            Are you mental?

          • wilson says:

            It’s the conclusion from your two statement.by the way I’m still waiting for what you point was on this “when was the last time you saw Ake start a game in DM?”

          • Sybe Pals says:

            Hahaha seriously?
            Still do not understand.

            AGAIN, a question is not a statement.
            That question does not make any point.
            Just awaits your answer.

  20. wilson says:

    good win for AZ as they progress through. Haps was also on the score sheet. Robert Mühren and Wout Weghorst has been in good form for AZ lately. excellent subs also to rap the game up.Jahanbakhsh,dos Santos,van Overeem

  21. Abhirup says:

    Early days but Ajax look like Ajax again after almost a decade! Except for the last 20 minutes of the game, they resembled their former selves, the pioneers who revolutionized modern football and engendered the brand espoused and advocated by the likes of Barcelona, Arsenal and each and every attacking team in world football. The mercurial midfield duo of Van de Beek and Nouri weaved their magic in midfield(although the latter was a bit quiet during the early stages), supported by a terrific backline consisting of Tete , De Ligt (hard to believe he’s still only 17 and made his first-team debut a few weeks back) and Riedewald. These youngsters need CL experience as soon as possible and should they keep up their development, the much coveted Oranje call ups aren’t far away.
    Expecting an Oranje revolution after a frustrating period of transition. Props to Bosz for playing the 4-3-3 and sticking to Cruyff’s philosophy. Optimistic!

    • Emmanual says:

      they are i mean 4 of them on radar of barcalona, i mean Nouri,Raidwald,De ligt and van de beek are on wacthig list of top clubs..i am hearing good reports on them..i can see that thats not just hype..i would add Bazoer to that list,but he must be disciplined,he is in fight with Bosz which not nice for both..

  22. Sybe Pals says:

    Ouch Feyenoord and PSV both are out of European football..
    Ajax and AZ are both through, hopefully they do well for the coefficient.

    Pop quiz :: who is the top scoring Dutchmen in the Europa league ?

  23. Ruud says:

    Karsdorp on MU’s radar, but i don’t recommend him join this club, Arsenal or City or Chelsea are better choice. It’s not easy to live under Mou’s control for a young player, especially if that young player not from his country or England.

  24. Ruud says:

    Luciano Narsingh likely will leave PSV and destination could be PM, so Liv or West Brom ?

  25. wilson says:

    Reports also surfacing Bazoer has agreeded to move to serie A .club is not known.Juventus or Milan maybe.

    • Emmanual says:

      Whether bazoer plays or not..he is top class material at his spot,i mean as DM..he can be a good playmaker too..Excellent vision,quick thinker..has good speed,good tackles on top excellent reader of game…but he has to meet the right coach like klopp,koeman,LVG,Cocu,Deboer etc…or else he will also be a flop..

  26. Jan says:

    Very disappointing game for Feyenoord. Ajax looks hot with all these youngsters. AZ also WELL DONE!

    PSV is in trouble this season. Without Guardado they are a different team. Sad for Cocu, he’s getting all the criticism in Holland, but Willems and De Jong as a combi were so lethal last season, both are in terrible shape. Propper, Perreiro…all disappointing. Not good.

    • wilson says:

      Jan I hope now you realize nwhy I was so critical about Danny.this is what happens when you build the team around players who are driven by team work especially at club level.again you can say this was not coming. This will obivosly affect NT and it all comes back to Danny and why he never considered what would the ling term output of players especially in eredivisie.definitely it has all gone to waste.

      • Jan says:

        Huh? I have no idea what you are saying? So Feyenoord and PSV are out because they try to play as a team? And we should use players in the NT who have not played together as a team? Because that will give us better odds? Hmmm Interesting!!!

        Why not play Janssen as right back, Stekelenburg as a striker and Strootman as left winger while we’re at it?

        Good analysis.

        I think we should really blame Blind for the red card Botteghin got away against Zonya and blame Blind for selecting De Jong for the NT, because as a result he misses chances.

        Please explain what you are saying or meaning to say Wilson. Doesn’t make sense at all.

        • wilson says:

          My bet Jan,there is a lot of grammatical errors there. I will try again. You look at PSV,feyenoord and Ajax. The foreign plays have been dominant and instrumental in the lead up to their success.Dolberg,Milik,cerny,Younes, Traore,Casierra,Jorgensen, El Ahmidi,Guardado,Arias,moreno etc.I will exclude feyenoord for the sake of argument here because Danny top two preference has always been PSV and Ajax.

          If you look at last season when PSV made it the quarters of CL,Danny heavily invested in them come NT selection but if you look at who were the driving shaft of the team,it was mostly foreign players in this case Guardado.what happened in NT was around players which they thrived were missing and hence their mediocrity was exposed.

          This what I meant that at NT level its a completely different scenario compared the team effort at club level where the individual qualities of players are hard to judge just because of the players around them. Same goes for ajax and yet both team players were on the top menu for Danny. Unfortunately like you said above most are under performing or are getting very little playing time.

  27. Emmanual says:

    Danny Blind is a coach who will start with players who is not even sits in bench of their clubs…to happen that either players needs a hype or it should be his son..yes son Daley is talented player,but orange is nothing short of talent in Daley spot,either its CB,LB or DM…one way or another way he will find a way to play his son..thats the end of the story,whether accept it or not ,THATS FACT..
    When Bruma-Virgil becoming good partners and he won some matches…he benched Virgil for his son..yes of course we lost and Danny got F@@#ked in his A@@#S..
    that made me to say like this…

    • Sybe Pals says:

      you throw the word fact around too easy.
      you are talking about opinion not fact.

      I dont say Blind has made all the right calls – but if you suggest Blind picks his son over players who are very obviously better then I think you are wrong. IMO you cannot say he favors his son over other players until Daley Blind starts a game when everyone else is fit in all of the positions he plays, and not having started any games at United – or unless he says so.
      otherwise, its story time or your ill informed opinion.
      At this point – anyone choosing Daley Blind as on of the best 2 players in CB, LB, or even DM (which he hasnt played in a while either) has a very easy time to defend their decision, his father the manager included.
      *though I am not saying it is my choice, necessarily

      Also very easy to see the Greece friendly selection in a different way – saying van Dijk was benched gives the wrong impression, like as if he was punished – though yes, he did not start that game.
      And who knows, maybe Blind felt it was a bad decision and wont do it again.
      Could be an easy decision to defend as well, southampton did not start well, United did, and as Blind said, he appreciated Bruma’s previous season which earned him his transfer (even though not yet the best form there, at this point that was not the case then). Trying a Bruma-Blind CB combo for the first time ever, only in a freindly, is not ridiculous.
      *again, maybe not what I would do either, I’d have tried van Dijk-Blind… but regardless, easy decisions/opinions to defend.

      “Danny got F@@#ked in his A@@#S”
      do you say your prayers with that tongue?
      please show just a little respect, buddy. strange that the person attempting some ridiculous riligious name (hilariously spelled wrong) is one of the most disrespectful and cynical persons commenting on JAN’S blog!

  28. Emmanual says:

    i think wilson is saying that blind is sticking with wrong players for so long…those are Luuk,Blind etc….

    • Sybe Pals says:

      so what.
      Luuk de Jong has not played for Oranje this season and Blinds’ selection is easy to defend.

      He also points that out when people are talking about something else because he obsesses over things the way that you do.

  29. Emmanual says:

    Promes is linked with Liverpool..But current liverpool has quality team and coach…then it will be
    Promes VS Countino(injured)VS Sadio mane and may be Gini could also play there..i dont think promes will make it …But he has an envious lungs which covers the pitch from one end to other end..
    Bazoer will join Ac Milan..Then eventually stupid Manu will sign him for 100M from Ac milan..
    I still can forgive Moyes to leave kevin Strootman for stupid fellaini.
    Players must be ranked at their spot
    Striker
    Janssen>Zivkovic>Luuk>Babel
    Right winger
    Roben>Van rhijn>Kevin Diks
    Left winger
    Annholt>williams>Naouri
    Playmaker
    Sneijder>Clasie>Ramseelar
    midfeild duo
    Strootman>Ake>DeRoon
    Bazoer>Wijnaldum.

  30. Sybe Pals says:

    de Vrij back for Lazio today, looks pretty good for someone out so much!
    2-1 away win v in form Sampdoria
    Almost kept the clean sheet except for a shot from outside the box beating the subbed keeper in the 89th min..
    Also led the match in tackles! Love it 👍

    Kishna and Hoedt stayed on the bench again unfortunately

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