What we learned about Oranje is not good…

blog Euro 2020 Euro 2021 WC2022
by Jan

Like you, I want the Dutch NT to shine. We all want the same thing here, I think, even though we don’t always look eye to eye in the how and the with whom side of the solution.

These past two matches – the Great System Reset by Louis van Gaal of the World Soccer Forum – should have given us some answers.

Lets see what we learned. I’m sure you will all be able to share your thoughts in the comments sector.

The biggest thing I learned is not a very good thing to have to learn…

Our team is not capable of 1) recognising a change in the opponent’s tactics and 2) adapting our own system in such a way that we can counter the opponent’s moves.

This for me is a key learning point and shocked me more than I would want to admit.

Hmmmmm classy….

I believe being able to “read games” and demonstrate leadership as a result by taking action used to be our strong suit. In the days of Cruyff, Van Hanegem, Jansen and Vd Kuylen, this was part and parcel of our teams.

Players like Jan Peters, Ruud Krol and Hugo Hovenkamp were able to do this too and the next generation of players with Jan Wouters, Arnold Muhren, Frank Rijkaard and Ronald Koeman was also able to make autonomous decisions. In the 1998 team, we had players like Cocu and Frank de Boer who would be able to take control as Van Bommel and Sneijder were the ones doing it more recently.

Where are the football brains in this squad??

Surely, players with experience such as Virgil van Dijk, Daley Blind and Gini Wijnaldum should be able to see what the Danes were doing?? And even though Frenkie is still young, a player of his caliber? I can totally imagine that Malacia, De Ligt, Dumfries and Koopmeiners are still a bit timid maybe, but some of the others…

This is the sort of leadership we need

So, Denmark has one world class player (at least) in Eriksen. And we know him well. He played for Ajax and with Blind, and against Wijnaldum. I mean, everyone here knows where Eriksen plays and how.

But when the Danes bring him in, at the start of the first half, Van Gaal wants us to believe the team didn’t “get” what that meant and wasn’t able to respond?!?!? Really?

That Eriksen goal could have been stopped, should have been stopped.

And then it happened against Germany as well. We play with two midfielders (Malacia and Dumfries are wide, while Berghuis plays closer to the two forwards. Guess what: we’re outnumbered! And the team had to wait until the half time break to have Van Gaal explain this to them? So Frenkie didn’t say to Berghuis after 10 minutes: “Yo, Stevie, drop back into midfield ok, we’re being hammered!”. So the team needed the coach to make changes in the second half and then Oranje, and only after Van Gaal’s impressive coaching, was able to fight back?

Ludicrous. Where is Will Smith when you need him?

Van Gaal just found after the Denmark game that Eriksen is an attacking midfielder….

If this is all true, our biggest problem is on the table now: it’s a tactically ignorant squad who need the constant instructions from their master coach, to be told what to do.

This is Problem #1 for me.

What else did we learn?

That the system is a handy thing to have, and it offers a sort of safety net to use, a stronghold of some sort, but…the system doesn’t win you games. The execution of it does.

Whether we played 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-3, if we don’t execute it properly, we will be mince meat after playing a top 10 nation.

So you know, these countries are all going for the title: Germany, Spain, Portugal, France, England, Argentina, Brazil, Belgium… In order to win against these teams, we need the system – whichever – to work AND we need our key players to show up.

I personally do believe in this system, but you can only play it with success if you have either 1) trained it extensively and then you might need the constant coaching from the sideline, Tuchel/Conte/Simeone style or 2) mature players who can take charge during the match. I think De Vrij, Frenkie de Jong and maybe maybe Memphis are able to add this to the game. A bit limited.

Another leader on the pitch, with his finger pointing and his passing….

Lets look at the players…

The Goal Keeper situation is not great. Flekken couldn’t convince and he does deserve more time, of course, but he didn’t look like the guy who ruled the area. His passing is fine, but his main job is to stop balls from going in. He didn’t convince me. As long as Cillesen and Bijlow are fit, with Krul or Flekken, we’ll be ok.

The Central Defenders all play for top teams and we do have a couple more in Botman, Struijk, Timber, Schuur and Teze. Still, I would expect Virgil to be more adaptable and him struggling with the 5 at the back is a surprise. At Liverpool, he plays with a world class goalie behind him, a world class defensive mid in front of him ( Fabinho) and a good solid centre back next to him. He was a bit lost, against the Germans and against Denmark in the second half too. De Ligt was ok, I felt, and De Vrij will probably be Van Gaal’s first choice at the back.

As for the Wingbacks, Daley Blind is no wingback. He can play there but that will mean some adaptations on the left wing in front of him. Malacia or Wijndal or Vilhena will be better options. On the right, Dumfries for me, is not good enough. He is probably one of the best we have, but compared to his colleagues from Germany, Italy, France and England, he is weak. His positioning is weak, his first touch is 50-50, his timing is off at times and he gets lost in confined spaces. We need someone else there. Karsdorp gets my vote.

Another example of a playmaker with leadership skills

I would bring both Blind and Dumfries along to Qatar though…

Midfield positions should be covered with Frenkie, Teun, Donny, Ryan Gravenberch, Marten de Roon and hopefully Joey Veerman. In case of emergency, Daley Blind can play there as can Nathan Ake, or Davy Klaassen.

The attacking mid position needs work. Joey Veerman? Cody Gakpo? If Steven Berghuis is too lightweight, so will Veerman be. Klaassen and Wijnaldum can play there of course, but so can Noa Lang, Danjuma, Memphis and Bergwijn.

Upfront, I was not impressed with Donyell Malen, although I do like him a lot usually. He’s quick, he finds his team mates easily, but in the Germany game, it felt like he needed to do what Bergwijn did versus Denmark? I think Memphis will step up as per usual in the big games. Weghorst will be an ideal super sub.

Cocu, highly rated as a tactical brain in midfield by all his former team mates

I personally cannot see any new attacking players make their way into the squad. Brobbey might be a candidate, other than that I don’t see a lot of emerging Dutch talent up front.

I still think we can have a solid team for the World Cup. But we will need some key players to be fit and in form, particularly in the axis of the team: goalie, central defenders, playmaker, #10 and striker. Or: Bijlow, Van Dijk/De Vrij, Frenkie, Gakpo, Memphis (for instance).

I do fear that the intense approach by the modern coaches (Conte, Bielsa, Ten Hag, Tuchel, Van Gaal, Nagelsmann, etc) result in a sort of straightjacket approach and players are losing their initiative and the balls to take the game in their hands, despite what the coach says or wants.

Cruyff, Keizer, Jansen and Van Hanegem and co did this regularly, but they did make sure they won their games…

We need a player with balls to do this. I don’t think we have many of those. Frenkie is more an ideal son-in-law type (but what a player) so my hope is now on Lang and Danjuma to be those players.

On another note, Ziyech and Mazraoui are on the fringe of the Moroccan team now… How awesome would it be to have both these players wearing Orange in the future…. ;-).

 

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102 comments

  1. Very good analysis Jan.

    I think the lack of a real leader is something that has been going on for years. Have to say that im somewhat surprised that vDijk isnt stepping up; maybe its just not in his character to lead during a game.
    Real leadership has always been a bit of a thing i think. For any dutch team its usually difficult to follow one leader…its part of the dutch character to have real problems with hierarchy. Only when people are obviously the best, like Cruijff, will most follow without making problems. So that cud be part of the problem.
    Im really struggling with our midfield..cant really think of a real football brain we have there who can also lead or make the team change tactics during a game. De Jong is a great footballer, but not a leader. And seems we need him more as a player between defense and midfield since it seems al our defenders can think of is play back to the goalie.

    I just hope we go down fighting…i dont ever want to watch a game like the Czeck one…ever!!

  2. Draw is coming, with the pots set here are the best and worst scenarios.
    Best
    Qatar Netherlands Tunisia Costa Rica

    Worst
    Brazil Netherland Senegal Wales
    or
    Brazil Netherland Poland Cameroon/Ghana

    With the pots mainly decided by world ranking and same confederation can not be put together except for 2 max UEFA team in one group, now even the worst scenario is not like the group of death from before.

  3. Overall, I feel Attack needs improving. Malen and Berghuis have not impressed. Depay to a certain extent also. Gakpo, Danjuma, Lang and Bergwijn are the best we have currently and they aren’t top notch, yet.
    Would like to see Veerman, Frimpong and Karsdorp added to the team in upcoming Nations League.

  4. I think my team would be:

    ——Danjuma—-Depay———
    ————Lang—————-
    -Blind—FDJ—Teun—-Dumfries
    ——VVD—de Vrij—De Ligt—-
    ———-Bijlow—————-

    I think at the 10 role we need someone who can weave through a crowded midfield and that’s not Berghuis, Klaassen or Wijnaldum. Bergwijn has done well for Holland in the last few games, but I think Danjuma offers a little more if he wants to drift wide and open space for the 10. I like Kardsrop, I like Frimpong… but I don’t think van Gaal does. I also like Bakker, but I just think it’s one tournament too soon for him. In terms of fringe players, I’d actually give the nod to Zirkzee over Brobbey at the moment.

    I like to think I’m pretty realistic about this team, and I think our chances of winning are slim. The team is bound for the R16 or QF. But as I say that, I also believe once you get to the QF of a knockout tournament anything can happen.

    I personally think our best case scenario is to pulled in Group B, regardless of who we’re with, and then hope that Group A is something like Qatar, Switzerland, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, that sort of clears the way for our R16. Also for me, Serbia and Senegal are the teams to avoid in Pot 3. Pulling Morocco or Tunisia would be great because then we don’t have to worry about the African teams from Pot 4.

    Overall, I’d say France and Brazil are favourites, by a margin. I think I put Argentina, Belgium, England as 3rd/4th/5th, and then Germany/Spain/Portugal…. and then us. I’d say we’re “underdogs” against those 8 teams, but at the same time if we have to play any of the 3-8 teams, I’d say we’re in it. France and Brazil might be a step too far.

    I’d be happy with a quarter-final performance from this tournament, something to build on moving forward. Obviously if we do better I’ll be elated, but again, just trying to stay realistic.

  6. My opinion: There is so much negativity posted here about the last two matches and I don’t know why. I don’t think we have better quality players than the favorites but we should be able to beat other teams comfortably, just like we beat Denmark. If we could have done that last Euro, we would have been semi-finalist. To think about winning the WC is unrealistic where the best achievement in the last 8 years is Euro playoff round. We could win it but we need significant amount of luck. The best we can do is to assembly a team that can beat teams like Denmark and Switzerland and then hope that when we face stronger teams, they will have an off day. So in my opinion, the last two matches were good experiment.

    I don’t like some of the things Van Gaal did like continuing using Blind where he has been exposed again and again by different teams or having no back up for Dumfries. But at the end of the day, even if he did, I don’t think that does make us stronger than France or Germany.

    As for Dumfries, I respectfully disagree with your opinion, Jan. He fought his way into Inter’s starting XI. Every few games, he provide a goal or an assist. He sometimes get caught out in wrong position but his mistakes are far less often than what Blind’s mistakes. It is like focusing on the wrong problem to solve. I agree that Karsdorp and Frimpong should be called up to give competition to him and if they fit better, let them start. But for now, Dumfries is one of the players who always perform for this team.

  7. Great analysis Jan. I have been trying to express your theory in so many forms and words but you managed to put a face into what I was trying to get at.

    We’ve all been in agreement that Oranje can’t withstand sustained pressure. Your first and second point speaks to the reason for that: not being able to adjust and calibrate in real time as a situation unfolds. It’s partly to a lack of leadership. But since this has being a lingering, prolonged problem, over many coaches, it points more at the Dutch management mentality of all-or-nothing. This attitude of absolutism and perfection rendering the need to be 100% in control. And how we get easily flustered and naively caught of guard when things do not go as the soothsayers have predicted. You know that feeling as fans that we so often get that we are going to lose a game when it is balanced on a pin head? That’s the aura of a team that only knows how to win one way, a team that regards any form of obstruction in its path as mere annoyance, not worth its time, and thus always under-prepared, permeating amongst its base.

    Take for example the Eriksen situation you brought up. He is world class as pointed out. How a coach of LVGs calibre can’t stay prepared of his eventuality and the impact he could have speaks volumes. As I have always reiterated, Oranje is just not interested in any kind of defensive measure if they can help it. They would rather wallow and waffle themselves in enquiries on how to get the opponent always on the back foot. And apparently they are yet to come to terms with the implausibility and absurdity of such a phantom philosophy. Even with Berghuis as our Cruyff this simple message still doesn’t register.

    It pays to be supremely confident in whatever you do and believing in what you do. But believing in yourself to the point of disregarding the threat an opponent poses is not only egotistical but foolhardy. And we are not in short supply of foolhardiness. Take the case of Karsdorp, the untouchability of Blind(who is a microcosm of how offense is elevated over everything regardless)…my head hurts.

    1. Sadly, I think you are correct. The more I think of it… And I do see how you have been saying this for a while. Maybe as a Dutch guy and having been exposed to the Dutch Way of Thinking, I have felt that there is no other way. As if it is the norm.

      But I can see the problems in Ajax and Feyenoord as well. Ten Hag has made some questionable decisions in the past months, losing matches in the Eredivisie and not able to think outside of his own box. The result: dropping points and losing in the CL. Ajax could end up with nothing this season.

      At Feyenoord, Arne Slot was struck with Covid and couldn’t coach one particular match. I think it was again a lowly team and Feyenoord was 2-0 up in 30 minutes or so but the assistant coaches were on the phone with Arne Slot, on the bench. Why?? Can’t they decide anything without the Control Freak Dutch Coach telling them what to do?

      It took a German like Roger Schmidt (not well like in Holland) to tell everyone that Ihattaren is not a pro. And he won’t be playing in Schmidt’s PSV.

      YOu name them: Bosz, Ten Hag, Van Gaal, Slot but probably also Schreuder (Brugge), Andries Jonker (ex Wolfsburg), Rene Meulensteen ( Brondby, Fulham), De Boer, Cocu… they all seem to be able to lecture wide and far about football but winning trophies they do not…

      Is this the problem? Culturally? The Dutch Control Freak Coach?

      1. I agree there has been a decline in Dutch coaching, and I think of it could have been due to a general decline in the quality of the Eredivisie. From around 2008-2016, the Eredivisie was so far from a European standard, we were struggling to get teams into the Quarter-Finals of the Europa League. I think similar to lower leagues, coaches who coach in weaker leagues may fall behind tactically, and they’re not used to working with big egos and man-managing. A great example is obviously Frank de Boer who was an amazing Eredivisie coach, but that meant nothing in the rest of the world. I think perhaps with the rise of stature in the Eredivisie, and more teams performing on a European front, we might get some better quality coaching out of it.

        I have high hopes for Gio van Bronkhorst, and it’s exciting to see van Nistelrooij take the reigns at PSV.

      2. Dutch coaches doesnt teach them to be a winner thats why we dont have trophies…Eg…still dutch coaches think hateboer is best,thats epitome single diamentional thought and stupidity..you are not going to win CL,or WC or EPL or la liga with hateboer,Blind etc…you will never…at the maximum u can win eredivise..dutch coaches fails to find a right combinations on feild,they dont instill winner mentality(exception may be van gaal)…..they just cannot think out side the box…

  8. Since we have so many good CBs and LWs, why don’t we try using one LW as LWB and use one LW as AM to cover our shortage of LWB and AM? I honestly don’t see our defense improve a lot by playing 3 CBs instead of 2. A lot of times our penatly area is too crowded. We have so many great CBs who have great quality, why don’t we give them more trust? We can play 3412 more aggressively.

    Starting line up:

    Depay Danjuma
    Gakpo
    Bergwijn Van De Beek Freenkie Dumfries
    Ake Van Dijk De Vrij
    Bijlow
    Back Up
    Weghorst Malen
    Lang
    Blind Koopmeiners De Roon Frimpong
    Botman De Ligt Timber
    Cillissen

    Boadu Berghuis
    Klaassen
    Bakker Gravenberch Wijnaldum Karsdorp
    Struijk St Juste Veltman
    Flekken

    Justin Kluivert Promes
    Stengs
    Malacia Schouten Rosario Hateboer
    Schuurs Bazoer Teze
    Bizot

    El Ghazi Brobbey
    Zirkzee
    Wijndal Veerman Vilhena Rensch
    Nuytinck Gouweleeuw Geertruida
    Drommel

    Luuk De Jong Dilrosun
    Til
    Van Aanholt Riedewald Matusiwa Tete
    Rekik Hoedt Denswil
    Krul

    Piroe Kerk
    Boetius
    Sinkgraven Ramselaar Clasie Fosu Mensah
    Viergever Indi Doekhi
    Scherpen

  10. Its no use hitting the head on the wall here, we have to let this WC go. No matter how far NT goes, they dont have the right ingriedents to win the WC

    Being said this for me its very simple and I have said this before many times, one of the main drawbacks for NT has been not grooming of back up players so that when on a certain day if somebody is having an off day, he can adequately replace him filling his shoes. Even if you look at this under koeman, it was the same story and how the trajectory of the team went down after that NL final. For NT the bench players are mostly there to either make numbers or be spectators.

    Regardless of whether they play or no, they should be on the same page . You look at this aspect during the 98, 2000s,. Huntelaar, van persie rivalry, Sneijder, Van der Vaart, seedorf, Numan, Davids and compare this to whats happening today, I mean karsdorp omission, makeshift Timber at RB, clinging to Blind, Berghuis inconsistency . This needs to change and and at some stage you have to try and do things differently and do it without them to inject that confidence level in the bench players increasing depth and quality at the same time. What we see today is when ever there is a injury to a key players like Depay, van dijk ( has happened) the team easily loses its formidabilty. You can only wonder what would happen if on a day, frenkie is not avaliable for a cruical game. You could argue van dijk and frenkie are top notch in their position and are undisputed but the dilemma still remains the impact of their injuries will have on the team. Also to some extent de vrij and De ligt could deputize them but my focus here is more on those position which can be boosted and could reinforce the team.

    You go back to the qualifers and try to dissect what van Gaal did in terms of what Im saying above and its consequences . He overlooked karsdorp to Rensch which was a waste of time, then tried to over look Dumfries for Timber which again Backfired ( Norway) and then clinged on to blind shelving Malacia which now has finally caught up to him that he is a liability in the team . Danjuma and Lang callup though you can argue was a positive but again they didnt get them up on time and find themselves running out of time getting them up to full throttle. This window was absloutely crucial and even in these two friendlys they have failed to expedite things either. On top of this he decides he wants to change the system and again which raises the eyebrow why now when it should have been in the qualifers? Why an extra CB when the back line is already formidable with van dijk and on the expense of highly rated wingers who can complement the team better and add more explosiveness at the same time.

    If seen from focal lens of guentity of this decision (system change), you will see it was only made as to give preference to Blind and accommodate him with his weaknesses which again has back fired. So you see this is all self inflicted and has nothing to do with the menatily or leadership crap as mentioned by others.

    I think Orangutan has touched on this in one of his early post about van Gaals inherient qualities and how he likes to prove he knows the best.No doubt he is a great tatican but like any other king one day he has to give up on his throne. You cant be wearing the crown forever.one can only wonder what van gaal has in his head for the next six and plus games before the world cup.

  12. Danjuma- Lang

    Depay

    Malacia- fremkie- Koopmeiners- dumfries

    Ake- Van dijk- De ligt

    Flekken

    This should have been the starting 11 vs Germany

  15. @ Jan

    Re: Is this the problem? Culturally? The Dutch Control Freak

    The Dutch have always lived in a bubble and refuse to get out of their own way. I have written about these extensively in the past. How the actions of different coaches seem to echo one another. How could three coaches in a row feel that Karsdorp is not good enough to be a substitute? And even more cynical, what could he have done outside of his footballing capabilities that would have brought such condemnation? Another example is the treatment of Cillesen by LVG in lockstep to the incompetent FDB and how he only saw his folly when desperation sets in.

    They all seem to have the same book of rules they follow. And again, having a manifesto that is not contingent with what’s happening in real time and being stubborn enough to enforce your “plan” regardless, is simply foolish. Two examples of this will always haunt me. Both against a Czech Republic team no better than Oranje. The Dick Advocaat withdrawal of Arjen Robben that directly led us to lose from a winning position and the subbing out of Malen that categorically killed our fighting chance this past Euros. These decisions are nearly twenty years removed from each other but share the same unique Dutch “overthinking smarts” about them. Advocaat claimed that we were being overrun in midfield(not true) and decided to sacrifice the best player on the pitch. Blind brought in an out-of-form winger for a player, who though not as clinical as you
    would like, have successfully kept Czech defenders honest and at bay. I would wager my last penny that only Dutch coaches would have made these substitutions under identical circumstances. To this day, both coaches have insisted that they made the right decisions and have a respectable number of talking heads in agreement.

    Decisions like these can only be possible when you’re living in a cocoon of reassurances by peers and an echo chamber of similar philosophy, immune to outside influence and unwilling to relent to even a sliver of light. This is why there has never been a remote attempt to address the curious case of Blind. It has been decided that he is too good a player to do without. Never mind the negatives and its adverse effects on the team as a whole. They will not even entertain the thought. And this is the problem in a nutshell. This groupthink. And the fear of confronting the fact that they have been wrong(woefully wrong) in many occasions and for a loooooong time.

  18. Probably one of the best draws we could have asked for. If this were a Holland team of the past, our progression to the Quarters would be almost guaranteed.

    I say that we can edge out this group, even if we draw with Senegal, I think maybe they slip up somewhere else so it might finish something like:

    Netherlands – 7
    Senegal – 5
    Qatar – 2
    Ecuador – 1

    After that, probably the United States, which again, we should be the favourites for, but at this point not heavy favourites. We then get the winner of what I imagine will be Argentina-Denmark, which again isn’t the worst case scenario, there are definitely tougher teams we could have bumped into along the way to the semi’s. If van Gaal can get this team clicking, semi-finals are not an impossibility. But I could also see us losing in the R16.

    1. My last 16 looks like this:

      Netherlands – USA
      Argentina – Denmark
      Spain – Croatia
      Brazil – Uruguay
      England – Senegal
      France – Mexico
      Belgium – Germany
      Portugal – Serbia

      After that I have:

      Netherlands – Argentina
      Spain – Brazil (glad neither of them are in our section)
      Senegal – France
      Belgium – Serbia

      Then I’m going to take:
      Netherlands – Spain
      France – Serbia

      And France beat Spain in the final.

      1. If Holland can beat Argentina then we should be able to beat Spain . This spain is not the same one as 2010

        To me, Our biggest opponent are still Argentina , Portugal ( lucky we will not meet them I hope ) and France

  20. I hope usa beat Iran. Iran is a team which is too hard to beat. U will see it in their game with England. If Iran survive their group it will be too hard to beat them for Netherlands.

    Jahanbakhsh and taremi and azmoun are their Star. U all know jahanbakhsh but u have to know about taremi which is one of best stricker in Portugal league

  21. Ecuador should not be underestimated. After a slow start in SA qualifiers, they qualified comfortably, and were a solid third until they dropped points at the end. A fast and physical team, they drew with both Argentina and Brazil. Senegal is probably the best team in Africa, and they have Mane.

    That said: “Hallelujah!”

    Can’t wait. 🙂

  23. I think that we now stand a strong chance to make it to the final where we meet Spain and avenge the 2010 loss 🙂
    Turning a bit more serious now: it is not an easy group, none of them is except for England that somehow always gets a super easy path to later stages. For all I know Qatar might have 11 naturalized brazilians in the team, Ecuador is strong, Senegal are African champions. I still believe LVG is the best coach we can have at the moment regardless his shortcomings. It bothers me that his right hand man in Danny Blind though. There is plenty of time to calibrate the team. I hope only players that participate actively with their clubs are invited.

  24. interesting draw. For some reason i wud have been happier had we drawn at least one big team since we tend to play well against big teams in first rounds at Wc’s.

  25. Interesting story. When questioned by the media who Oranje would get from Pot 1, Van Gaal said – stone cold: “Qatar”. And the media asked him, why? Van Gaal: “Because I have luck hanging on my pants (Dutch expression… most people say I have luck hanging out my arse). And yes: Qatar it is.

    On another note: Ihattaren impressed in Young Ajax. Could he be the #10 we will need in Qatar?? Is there time enough?

        1. I really don’t get the hype about Ihataren. I see the highlights and there is nothing but an ordinary player in there, the kind that is found aplenty in 2nd hand european leagues.

        1. @fraiquin….if so then its too much heat at afternoon at qatar ,that would kill our players even in november21 the there will be heat at afternoon..

          1. Its not stupidly hot though, much like it would be for a Summer tournament in somewhere like Spain – looking at average temperature for Doha in November they are:
            “…a moderately hot month in Doha, Qatar, with average temperature ranging between max 29.5°C (85.1°F) and min 19.5°C (67.1°F).”

  28. By not playing we are doing the following SINS..
    karsdorp at Rb is wasted…
    Lutshereal Geetruida is wasted at LB/RB..
    Timber AT DM position..
    Two biased selection Blind and wijnaldum(just for experience??)may be they are experienced in loosing,choking for some time..
    We need two DMs with lungs and can tackle..the battle hardended ones is required one on bench and other as starter..do we have??
    Father Danny Blind is a problem..he finds a way to accomodate his son…he kills Geetruida Chance.,is he the one behind karsdorp omission???may be..i can accept Blind is better than winjdal but we need better LB..
    Hateboer????ha ha , hardfooted,cannot cross,cannot defend…ha..
    winjdal???poor cross,poor tactical awareness,averege defender??
    People think Danjuma and lang are better than Berghuis and berjwin/Malen/Gakpo..sorry they are not..Danjuma has poor work rate it affects team play,hence we struggle to create anything……Lang is no wnhere near berjwin , yes he can compete with berghuis but that would not make any difference..

  29. There is no way Ihatteren is not a better proposition than Berghuis. Berghuis is NEVER going to show us anything new but Ihatteren could be an X-factor. A little on the chubby side which may be chuck down to his long layoff but harder to shake off the ball. But the jury has probably made up their mind on Berghuis. And we all know how they cannot be wrong🤣

    Don’t know much about Qatar but I know for a fact that Oranje is not going to find it easy against Senegal and Ecuador. If past is prologue, physical teams with pace would always be a cause for concern for Oranje. A sprinkling of great technical players like Ismail Sarr and Mane in the wings could make things tricky especially on our left side. Oh, how I worry about our left side..

    1. I’m Iranian here and know many things about Qatar. They have propper for 8 years for this world cup. Their best player is akram afif and and moez ali.
      Qatar beat all Asian team to win Asian cup in 2019 for first time also they beat Japan with 3 goals. They have many campaign on their country to prepare for this world cup.
      Their defense is not good as their attacking power.

  30. Agree senegal will be a good team team and plus there will more prep time for all the team so you cant underestimate any team. Senegal players play in high profile clubs across europe and you can expect them to be competing for group winners and runners up as well.

    Mane- Liverpool
    Koulibaly- Napoli
    Diallo- PSG
    Idrissa Gueye- PSG
    Mendy- Chelsea
    Bouna sar- Bayern
    Koyate- Crystal Palace
    Dieng – Marseille
    Papa Gueye- Marseille
    Diatta- Monaco
    Dia- Villareal
    Ismaila Sar – watford

  31. U have to see 3 or 4 foreing player in Qatar squad. They do it everytime.
    Senegal is good team also. I think mendy is their real power. Really good goal keeper. Really good if u see African cup and Egypt vs senegal game in play off u will understand he is one on best goal keeper in world.
    There r three hard game for us and I really hope if we go to next round we avoid Iran. If u see Iran Spain game in 2018 u would understand what I say.

    Ned 1 senegal 1
    Ned 2 Qatar 1
    Ned 1 equator 0

    I hope we get 7 points if we r lucky.

  32. About temperature. Qatar has very awesome technology on their stadium and they can control of temperature.

    I think in normal days Qatar temperature would be surely near 27 to 35 in November. But their would be control of weather temperature

  33. I’m Iranian here and know many things about Qatar. They have propper for 8 years for this world cup. Their best player is akram afif and and moez ali.
    Qatar beat all Asian team to win Asian cup in 2019 for first time also they beat Japan with 3 goals. They have many campaign on their country to prepare for this world cup.
    Their defense is not good as their attacking power.

  34. My country play Qatar every two years. And never i remenber Qatar beat us. qatar is Asian champion but Iran is harder to beat.
    Iran is one of 4 country which don’t lose a game in 2021. Qatar don’t have many foreing player. But they have many campaing under Spain coach and they know what they do.

    Qatar is very regular team. Very very regular. They shock all teams in Asia when they beat Saudi Arabi and rep Korea and Japan. No one expect that and know if we don’t know many things about them they will surprise us.

  36. Guys what do think of Gravenberch? Perhaps in an advanced role. I kind of forget about him. He really put in a good shift in the last two games for Ajax after he was dropped to JO.

    1. Just like Blind Gravenberch has holes in his defensive ability…cannot trust him as DM…but he is world class attacker,what a talent….Blind should play as attackingmid or 5th back or etc…or else he should be dropped…

  37. —Gakpo—-Depay—-Berjwin—-
    ———-Gravenberch—————
    —Frenkie——–Timber————–
    Malacia–Virgil—De vrij—karsdorp–
    ———-Cillessen——————-
    on bench
    —Malen—–Brobbey—–Berghuis
    ————Klassen————-
    —–Blind———-Ake———
    Geetruida—Botman–Deligt–Dumfries
    ————-Bijlow——————-
    Krul as penalty killer,Weghorst as 10 minute power forward,NOA LANG AS THE 25TH MAN….

  38. I was wondering what the reactions here would be to the WC draw. Personally, it seemed like a real positive, but I’m skeptical of our current team’s ability to go very far. For me, at every position in front of de Jong, this has to be the weakest World Cup team we have ever fielded. Such a shame that we did not have this type of backline talent in 2010 or 2014, when we still has some quality in attack.

    My son’s predictions:
    0-1 loss to Senegal (on a 95′ slaloming run by Mane)
    1-1 draw vs Ecuador (via a de Ligt header in the 89′)
    1-2 loss to Qatar (van Gaal throws his little notebook, resigns, and leaves the stadium before halftime)

    I’m a bit more positive than that, but I actually have greater expectations for the US team than Oranje this tournament (which pretty much says it all)…

    1. A real shame that we had none of the defenders we have nowadays in the 2010 and 2014 teams. We could have won both if we did!

      The game against Senegal is a crucial one and with the team they have they are more than capable of repeating their 2002 world cup campaign where they started with a win over the defending WC and European Cup champs France. If we start with a win we will finish with 9 points in the group. If not, things could get tricky and we may experience another situation like the Euro 2012. I do have faith on Van Gaal though and with a bit of luck we may surprise a lot of people!

  39. Nice goals from Veerman and Gakpo coming back from 3-0 down vs Twente and finishing the game 3-3.

    I still believe the best formation to accomdate everybody is 4-4-2.

  40. A random thought which just came to my mind..
    Van Bronckhorst was told in the 2010 WC that he was too slow and our Achilles heed at LB. He was the captain then. In the end, he didn’t fail us.
    Is Blind similar to Van Bronckhorst? Both got good eye for passes, and not fast.

  41. I didnt know he was told he was too slow Because Van der weil on the side was not that fast either. He was average runner but with good crosses.

    1. Ha ha wilson…Van der weil was superfast with poor cross but he was 1000 times better dribler than Dumfries and hateboer..He was no where near Karsdorp…
      Gio vani was slow for his age,but he was not slow now like Blind…offcourse as an LB Blind is no where near him in all departments…Gio vani is legend…his years at arsenal and barca only daley blind can dream off..

  42. You are right. Gio was not the fastest but was much nimbler than Blind. And he also had a much more superior positional sense which makes up for his lack of pace and not being caught out of place which Blind has been guilty of far too often. Gio played with better players too which always would alleviate the workload for any defender.

  43. Timber,Ake and Blind should be promoted to Midefild ..as DMs who can build from there…they would be excellent there…..
    Gravenberch and klassen should be promtoed as playe maker behind striker…..
    wijnaldum,hateboer,winjdal should be dropped from squad…

    1. I really optimistic about Ligue 1 Dutch contingent and the options that they will bring come 2024 and 2026. dream team in the making including those in the current NT.

  46. LVG is battleling agressive prostate cancer..Wish him speedy recovery..He did a wonderful job by taking us to WC with a strong team,rectifying all damage and chaos created by FDB..FDB and his stupid loss vs Turkey..

  48. Shocking news. Nothing but prayers and best wishes, and the belief that your biggest victories, on the field and off, are ahead.

    @Jan, I wonder if it is possible for you to send a collective word of best wishes and thoughts from this this blog? It would be words of support from a community that is literally from all over the world.

  49. Joshua zirkzee keeps scoring very nice goals for anderlecht, he has 16 goals and many assists this season, I see only his goals and they look amazing, I wonder if he is going to be senior oranje material soon?!!!

    1. the thing with strikers like Boadu, zirkzee, Brobbery is they only thrive in the box, Piroe for me is the one that is dangerous both inside and outside of the box. being said this 2024-2026 looks to be gonna be stalked with options.

  51. Ihattaren has started another game for Jong Ajax. Scored one goal and one assist!

    NOt sure why the coach didn’t let him finish the whole game and subbed him out after 60min. But you can see his confidence and excitement after scoring the beautiful free-kick goal! hopefully he will keep improving and eventually become Oranje truly no.10.

    1. because of his fitness and probably not force him at this stage. this was his second in what 3 days.
      https://twitter.com/AjaxAnalytics_/status/1511060765515595792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Afootballoranje_%7Ctwgr%5EeyJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29va2llX2V4cGlyYXRpb24iOnsiYnVja2V0IjoxMjA5NjAwLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3NrZWxldG9uX2xvYWRpbmdfMTMzOTgiOnsiYnVja2V0IjoiY3RhIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19zcGFjZV9jYXJkIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9mZiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.football-oranje.com%2Fknvb-hoping-to-quickly-wrap-up-koeman-deal%2F

  53. One day when he ( ihattaren) gets his full confidence and fitness back , he will be our perfect number 10

    Currently at the moment I cannot find anyone ( same position ) got more talent than him. Let’s see what Ten Hag can get him back Alive. ( hopefully ten hag stays a bit longer ..)

    1. Xavi simons could provide a good competition but only if he can starting playing and which currently looks Blick. A loan to CL team or EL for that matter could be encouraging given his talent. In the midst of the current PSG big guns its hard seeing him progress there. He needs to catch up to the likes of pedri, Gavi, Fati whom have taken that next step. If only he would have stayed at Barcelona, he would have been in NT now.

      Being said this he really needs to decide where his future lys before he signs a new contract.

      1. Xavi Simons time’s is really up and he needs game time.

        Something is bothering him leaving PSG but everyone knows its just not easy to get playing time along with all those big stars.

        He will definitely move to another team, you cant keep getting ‘famous’ cos of your IG status.

    1. Danjuma positioning was great and true strikers goal I sould say. You can tell he is slowly getting accustomed to the central role very similar to like Memphis when he first shifted from the wing to thd centre.

  55. Koeman has gotten the nod to take over Oranje in January. I hope LVG will be healthy enough to take us through this world Cup. If not, Blindsr shouldn’t be an option, assistant or not.

    This may sound farfetched I stating what may seem unlikely in every sense but we’ve seen how this admin operates and Koeman should take up duties earlier than intended if faced with such scenario. Case closed. Praying for you King Louis.

  56. I was very impressed with Ake against Atletico. He was comfortable on the ball, strong on the challenge, pacy and gave no joy to Atletico on his side. Still beats me how this guy has never been tried in that defensive midfield spot. Instead they rode de Roon until the wheels fell off. Unbelievable.

    1. Agree, he had a good game and especially with his running game ( tracking back) which he is not known for. If he can pick up on his distribution game, he can become a good CB like Van Dijk.

      For the koeman appointment, im not happy at all. He simply doesnt have the modern day touch to his approach and will revolve around the same tatic which has has already showcased and which overtime accelerates and then starts to decline. The KNVB should have approached Peter Bosz should he be released from Lyon at the end of this season.

    2. Nathan AKe could pull ngolo kante role in 2022WC…He might be the missing puzzle there..i would add Timber there too Pair Frenkie with Timber or Ake…

  57. Mean while Tete and Kongolo will be playing in EPL next season with Fulham who are guranteed automatic promotion from championship sitting 11 points clear on top of the table.

  59. Ronald koeman will be back in Januvary..Considering the situations i think he is the second best after LVG..(Ten haag will not be available for next 10 years)…Arnie slot is following Ten haag…
    We need to see the track recrod of Koeman for NT..
    He took us to final of first ever Nations league from group included Germany and france…other coaches would have lost 4 matches….only to sad loss to Portugal at slight marjin in final…i still cannot forget the match we beat world champion france by 2-0…what a match…under koeman..
    He took us to Euro 2020…then he left FDB screwd us in Ec2020 and and almost cost other WC2022..Luckily LVg stood up and saved us..
    Salute to LVG eventhough he didnt select Karsdorp,Ake as DM,Blind as DM,geetruida as LB etc..

  60. if we are playing with 5-3-2, it is time to drop Memphis for Danjuma, Danjuma keeps scoring in big games, he has six goals against tough oponnents in champions league while Memphis sits on bench for barcelona, I like Memphis a lot but my issue with him was always is that he is not a clear striker so he is not a clinical finisher he wastes many chances during a game, and at the same time he is not a clear winger, his speed is not top like Dembele for example, he is half half and that doesnt work against top teams. I would love to see Danjuma-Gapko at this point.

    1. Yes he’s been bad for Barcelona, but Depay has 17 goals in 17 games for Holland since the beginning of 2021. That’s undroppable. Why not play Danjuma and Depay beside each other. Bergwijn’s shown something, and Malen has skill, but neither are eclipsing Depay despite his bench role at Barcelona.

      1. By the way Depay is not even on the bench for Barcelona against Frankfurt today. In La Liga he barely sees game time. Even Frenkie hasn’t started today.

  61. Hey, I’m just spit balling here. But I’d love to see some more runs behind Depay when he drops deep (which he does often). How about something like this:

    Bergwijn – Danjuma
    Depay
    De Jong – Wijnaldum
    Back 5

    Sure defense would be working hard. But hopefully you’d have enough forward pressure to keep it tight.

  62. Feyenoord and PSV still in it, in both their Conference League ties, which is exciting. Hopefully at least one can make it out.

    We also have the Barcelona contingent, Atalanta contingent, Peter Bosz and Gio to cheer for in Europa League.

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