Thank for the memories, Bert….

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by Jan

Bert resigned.

He saw that there is no basis to move ahead.

Despite the earlier “leaks” saying that he would give it a go and would sacrifice two key players (well, at least one world class striker), he sees now that it is not going to work.

Whether it was Bert’s wife telling him, or whether it was Bert van Oostveen or even Wesley Sneijder whispering in his ear, we will never know…

It’s sad though. The man didn’t deserve this exit.

He gave what he had. But he failed at the end….

Too bad. I will remember him fondly. But stepping away is/was the best decision.

Now I only hope they will NOT GET KOEMAN!!!

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  2. It is true that Bert exceeded many expectations (not me, I always expect and hope us to win) in 2010. I do not think Koeman will do well. Rijkaard is good but I think we need a disciplined coach for this squad. He may also be brave enough to select his own players to play what he plan Oranje to play. Honestly I do not who that will be. I only like Frank De Boer and Gio but they are not ready. I’d rather wait at least a year or two, and Frank already said no (is that true?). I do not know much about Verbeek and Adriaanse. He does not deserve this but it is probably best for all that he resign.

  4. Coaches I dont want to see for Holland: van Gaal, Gullit, Advocaat, Koeman. I dont mind Rijkaard, but he may lack the authority. One thing is for sure though – He can look down on all those BIG egos as he has done/achieved more as a player and most of them would have adored Rijkaard when growing up and he was the coach of Barca before Pep.

    1. I dont mind Rijkaard, but he may lack the authority. One thing is for sure though – He can look down on all those BIG egos as he has done/achieved more as a player and most of them would have adored Rijkaard when growing up and he was the coach of Barca before Pep.
      —–

      Considering the situation, Rijkaard may be the best available candidate we have now. Agree with Carlos’ points above, sometimes carrots may work more effectively than sticks.

      None of our current players has achieved anything close to where Rijkaard did. If these don’t command respect, I don’t know what will.

      My Oranje dreams, Rijkaard leads us to WC 2014 glory and then passes the baton to the other Frank, de Boer for EURO 2016 glory (hey, I am still allowed to dream, am I not?)

    2. i fully agree with you,Carlos. i don’t want hiddink either.
      sad story that bert had to go this way… i didn’t like his tactics,but respected him for the results and the personality seems sympathetic. he had no other choice.

  5. Well, sometimes you might just get what you wish for… whether you like it or not!

    Alot of folks have been beating up van Marwijk the last week, ad naseum, demanding he either get axed or quit. Well, you get your wish. But who will the K.N.V.B. select to lead us into the 2014 Qualifiers? Koeman? Let’s hope not! Advocaat? If you wish for a Round-of-16 or Quarter-Final exit, and him expressing satisfaction. De Boer? Come on! He isn’t that insane. Maybe in the future, but not this go around. Rijkaard? Maybe. He inherited the end of the ’90’s movement, but couldn’t solve Italy and quit. Adriaanse? Maybe.

    In the end, we will all know soon enough, and probably bitch and moan like we did about Bert. But I will always remember van Marwijk solving the puzzle for one glorious run to the brink of the Holy Grail. I was fortunate to watch him guide Feyenoord to the K.N.V.B. Bekker in 2008 on vacation. Snagged awesome ducats and saw my beloved Feyenoord beat Roda. Thanks for that Bert!

  6. Co is the only one posible. I wanted him as coach for years. He could make the most of our attacking qualities. But I dont think the knvb forgot about his ´kamikaze ´ attack style which he did with twente against benfica last year lol. We could beat Turkey with 6 to 1 and then lose against Estonia-

    ALso I love to see our spoiled boys looking for hours for eastern eggs in the woods or running in front of his car before a friendly. That would be good for Robben affelay persie vd vaart vd wiel! Co will knock some sense in them haha

    1. Ya come to think of it I have a seminar I’m doing shortly and I think I’m going to change my presentation.

      These people are very elite at what they do, so instead of doing it the way I have done things in the past such as acknowledging the strengths and weaknesses in individuals. Focusing on utilising those strengths and strengthening the weaknesses through earning respect by getting them to believe and buy into my system as a group.

      This time I’m going to start cracking skulls! I’m going to take charge like Stalan, center people out for there weaknesses and make examples out of them! I will tell them its my way or the highway! I don’t care if they don’t buy into my system because they must realize who’s in charge and check there ego’s at the door! After all they are the best at what they do and I’m the one that makes them maintain who they are!!

      I will fill everyone in after the seminar. e

  7. change is good and healthy any way, so even if u had succes with bvm, it is good to have a new coach now, see new faces, go back and enjoy the usual dutch style! it would be very nice to see players like strootman, clasie, adam maher and others getting chance to step up.

  8. Sad to see Bert go. I quite liked him, even though he will be remembered most for this terrible Euro.

    Who is next for the ‘dream job’ of managing the Oranje?

    I hope that all those who cried out for Bert’s head will fully support the new boss, even if he is not immediately successful.

  9. A Co Ardiaanse lineup playing with 3 defenders and 5 strikers I found somewhere :

    Stekelenburg
    vRhijn Douglas Gouweleeuw
    ANITA Sneijder
    Nasingh V.d. Vaart Robben
    Huntelaar V. Persie

    haha! Attack is the best defense

    1. Hey, thats a comparable line up to what we had against Portugal! Its truely a dutch dream because it won’t work at all.

      This line up has no balance and we already proved if our forwards aren’t firing we have no defence.

  11. Really donn’t know how to put this. As an Oranje fan, I had good meories as well as bad memories on Bert era. Anyway, Bert made a wise decision on quitting this job.

    Farewell to Bert. Thanks for the memories. The Oranje fans will remember it was Bert van Marwijk led Oranje all the way to the 2010 WC Final.

  12. I’ll remember Bert as the coach who took us to the final in 2010, not the other way around.

    Had the luck to be present in the Brazil game in the world cup. Glorious. He is the coach that led us to finally taking them out of a tournament after that horrible 98 loss. That day Bert made me sing happily for hours with other dutch fans.

    I hope whoever gets appointed does a terrific job and eliminates Portugal in the 2014 WK. He has big shoes to fill.

    Dank u wel Bert! 😀

  13. Dank U Bert!
    I’ll remember him for doing the best with what he had. Although I have been pretty irritated with his decisions for the last year…he did well.

    I’m ready for the next manager. Somebody who will have more authority and the balls to tell a player to play a certain way and if he can’t do it he can watch the tournament from home. This changes everything for younger players and players of this past generation. Oranje will be interesting leading up to the qualifiers.

  14. little sad but thats how life goes. i think he was the man who made oranje, and the fans believe that we can achieve something at the top level. the first thing that will come to my mind when thinking about bert is our victory against brazil. yes it was a bit lucky but without him and his defensive tactics at the middle of the park it woudnt have been possible in my reckoning.
    certainly not the best way to say good bye to the dutch football – 3 losses on the row.
    but now we have to move on.
    lots of respect and many great memories.

  15. I respect Bert for everything he did with Oranje. The last 3 games in this Euro showed a team with no spirit, tired of a very long season and with many issues between players, the coach itself and the mojo simply wans´t there. Van Marwijk and neither of us could predict such a bad scenario but we didn´t knew before the Euro how bad things were in team atmosphere.

    He gave Oranje hope again in 2010 and his failure in this Euro is Oranje´s failure specially from the players and now the new coach will have a huge task in re-shaping the team. There is no need to change everything but there are new players like Douglas, De Vrij, Classie, Fer, Maher, Strootman and many more who will have to be introduced to the roaster to blend a tougher team. I think the new coach will have to do a great job to build a whole new defence because that´s the weakness of the squad.

    Thank you Bert. It wasn´t only your fault. After all, he was a very logical person and his decision to resign was also a logical one.

    Hup Holland!

  16. My opinion on this is no different then it has been in the past.

    As in the past the coach was the issue and impaired the team! We should have won it many of times! 08,10 and 12 for that matter were all attainable. Just like van basten was a major problem with the players so was BVM but not as bad. So I have no sympathy for him and don’t buy into the fact that he took us to WC finals! The players took him and he just made it harder as he did this Euro.

    Let’s face it Holland probably is the best soccer nation in the world considering the size of the country. Our stubborn ass my way or the highway coaches have been the issue not the team.

    If we can get a coach who let’s these guys gel they want too we will or wouldve been a dynasty!

    I would bet the bank he was told you can resign or your being fired. Simple as that.

    The golden era is coming to a close is there still enough in the tank come 14?

  18. The decision by KNVB will shed light on how they think about WK2014:

    A. They can chose based on money and availability, means they feel no real chance at WK2014

    B. They chose based on real needs(Hiddink or equivalent) means they are dead serious about a world title.

    Look, we need to rebuild defense + our best players are in serious decline. Tough…

    I am afraid they will go for A. But the last few days (I was sure Bert will not stay) I pray every night that it will be B.

  19. Well folks. Looks like everyone got what they wanted. You were upset this time around, just wait… we’re in for tough times. The team needs to rebuild and I guarantee you guys will be singing the same tune in two years time.

    Its ok… we’ll just fire the coach and everything will be AOK. The usual knee jerk quick fix that has become the norm.

    As for the present, i highly doubt the KNVB will re-hire anyone for the second go round – that means Hiddink, Rijkaard and like. Which leaves who? Heaven help Oranje!

  20. Bert giveth, Bert taketh away.

    Bert architected the dream WC 2010 run to the final with a team of UNtalented prima donnas whose egos are way bigger than their skills and their accomplishments. Of course many of you think that these players are the best, but you’re free to believe whatever you want. You might as well believe that the earth is flat. Oranje’s 2010-2012 is an average team with some players that are somewhat talented. Only Sneijder has pure class and have accomplished something in his career. The rest have accomplished NOTHING. Unless if you count being Everton’s player of the year as something. And for all the RVP lovers, he is a great player on a mediocre team that hasn’t been a contender for the PL title or any other title. And for the Hunter lovers, he is a player with limited technical skills- will never be close to the true greats like Bergkamp, Kluivert, or RVN. I don’t give a shit about how many goals he scored against stupid teams like San Marino. Just see the opponents he scored his “stellar” career goals against. And for the Robben lovers, I’ve heard that dictionaries will now have a picture of him besides the definition of the word “choker”.

    Let’s face it guys. This team is no Spain or Germany. Neither most of the players have the skills to be in the top 50 players in the world, nor the team plays with the spirit of a TEAM. Yet, for some reason, every player on the team thinks that they are the shit.

    If it wasn’t for Bert, this team would have had a quarter final exit in the last WC. However, after the successful and pragmatic tactics of Bert, the team managed to cover its weaknesses effectively and made it to the final. Having achieved such an accomplishment, everyone suddenly thought that this team can really compete with the big dogs. Sorry, but it ain’t happening. If Bert couldn’t do it, no one else can do it. And for those of you throwing names of unknown players from a pathetic league aka Eredivisie thinking that they will solve Oranje’s problems, you need to go see the doctor ASAP. If the so-called top players couldn’t do much, do you really think that players from teams that get humiliated in the CL and the Europa League can be any better. Eredivisie teams that can’t even win/draw against Real Madrid who already qualified AT HOME in a “meaningless” game or teams that gets trashed regularly from Valencia, Schalke, etc who aren’t even title contenders in the respective leagues!

    For all of you who trashed BVM and his tactics, you’ve got what you asked for. He is no longer the coach now. But oh boy, you will surely miss his days.

    Ladies and gentlemen, fasten your seat belts. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.

    1. have all these negative people been on here the whole time?

      how can you call yourself a dutch fan and say were untalented?

      we don’t need to be germany or spain, we are Holland!, Spain and Germany copied us, not the other way around.

      And hate on Arsenal all you want, But RvP is wanted by juventus, manchester city (premier league champions). and you complain arsenal aren’t a contender. So what, cesc Fabregas was playing for arsenal. is he not the oh so talented spanaird.

      did you even watch the qualifiers, Huntelaar bailed us out when we played bad against finland the first time, and against moldova a game we won 1-0 and should have won by more but berts tactics.

      I get it, Bert did make great decisions in 2010, the young defenders weren’t ready, But it’s 2012, and all the youngsters are here, and ready, and need to be tested and he didn’t. Only through injury of heitinga, did he test bruma against sweden, and bruma failed. Maybe that affected his thinking and scared him.

      He kept playing van bommel, and van bommel was great in 2011, and great at qualifiers when he has plenty of rest inbetween games, but he got old, didn’t have the legs, and masked it by being rested before big games in italy.

      It was never truly the formation of 4-2-3-1 thats a problem. in 2008 Holland made 4-2-3-1 very sexy, some sexy football. But it’s the application of that same formation under bert van marwijk that caused the problems. two holding midfielders are fine as long as one of them attacks, but they couldn’t de jong was too limited in attack, van bommel could do great but no legs to get back.

      Lets be realistic here, Holland is very talented, and this whole ranking sof top 50 players is crap, because the media controls it, and Spain and Germany are hip, they are in style now, and it’s always gonna be littered with those players. and even then, Sneijder, Robben, Van persie, are top 50 players no doubt. With van der vaart arguable, and huntelaar too, (espn rated huntelaar 48)

      as they say the future is bright, and it’s bright orange!

    2. @overmars, I don´t agree with the argument that you have to be in a winning team/club to be considered good or great. The problem with our players is not about quality, its about maximizing utility for mutual gains. Each individual talent fails to connect with one another, thus forming their own individual weapon. Van Persie wants crosses and tap ins but have wingers who cut in and shoot for themselves. Sneidjer can´t find a good midfield associate because Van Bommel and De jong are not willing to advance further up the field. In part I understand your frustations, but Van Marwijk gave in too much to his players and they failed to repay his confidence.

      1. “Sneidjer can´t find a good midfield associate because Van Bommel and De jong are not willing to advance further up the field.”

        Just from memory, this isn’t the way I recall Van Bommel playing a few years ago. But that does seem to have been the case lately.

        “Van Persie wants crosses and tap ins but have wingers who cut in and shoot for themselves.”

        Huntelaar the poacher suffers from the same problem. You’re spot on.

    4. ´a pathetic league aka Eredivisie´ ???

      Every player in Oranje that you love find his origin in de eredivise. The style you love so much was created by eredivisie.

      That we must fight in europe with budgets that are 10 or 15% of international club and sometimes have success is incredible.

      1. i know right, if eredivisie kept all there talents, and ajax kept their talents they would be champions league quarterfinals or higher every year.

        I mean can you imagine an ajax VI

        of Stekelenburg at Goalie,

        Defenders like Van Der Wiel, Maduro, Vermaelen, Vertonghen

        Midfielders Nigel De Jong, Rafa Van der Vaard, Wesley Sneijder

        Attackers, luis Suarez, zlatan ibrahimovic, Huntelaar

        Hell even huntelaar on the bench, i mean seedorf could have been defensive midfielder instead of de jong, we have wingers now, erikson, boereighter, maybe narsingh,

        it’s a team that will give barcelona and real madrid a run for the money.

    6. Love it: Bert giveth…taketh away.

      So true. His pragmatics ways were the knife that cut the gordian knot in 2010. Only problem is, then you have to weave the string back together again.

      Nevertheless, I think his focus on results has taught Dutch soccer a lesson, if they are willing to learn it. The Dutch school needs to realize that Cruijff was a once in a lifetime player, and you can’t build a system around that.

  21. overmars….that was great….liked everything you said but obviously dont agree to everything…surely no one can say this if bert cannot do this then nobody can..bert was certainly not the messiah…he was instead very mediocre…anyways agree to what you say about ppl bringing names of young eredivise players…when big players with so much talent and experice cant very difficult to expect young guys to do it…unless you think achivement is giving 100% on the field all the time…
    regarding bert…yes i wanted him to resign…so happy but feel bad today since he had us almost there…thanks Bert…RESPECT… and best wishes..

  22. ” This man didnt deserve this excit” ???? why not??

    Bert has brought very little..ok, ok..some good results , but play has been terrible under him (including the WC)

    if there was ever a manager who deserved to be sacked..it was Bert!

    best football news ive heard this month

    1. yes i wonder since when did bert get all these defenders, they are just scared because the best coaches are not available.

      Who you think gonna be the next coach?

    2. Goose, once again you and I agree completely. I look at his resignation, which I hope was offered up immediately after the Dutch exit from the tournament, as a class act. When a team ranked 4 or 5 by FIFA, second in the last WC and one of the three or four favorites to win Euro ’12,loses all three matches, scores two goals, no points, and looks like a top quality amateur team–what other appropriate resolution could there be? However, it was a TEAM LOSS, and in addition to BVW, several long time national team players also need to be replaced. WE need to completely rebuild the defense, develop new second tier mid-fielders, and return to the days of 4-3-3 with players who care about winning, not just showing up.

      What about a non-Dutch coach? Other nations do it, with some success. I think being a national team coach is one of the worst jobs in professional football–limited access and time with players, dealing with gigantic egos, dealing with league teams who are worried about injuries to star athletes, challenging relationships with the KNVB (my instincts tell me this a NOT a well run organizations), and with the Dutch people, an expectation of high level performance from a comparatively small country with a mid-level professional league. High expectations, high stress, limited power and authority–who in hell would want the job. I would like to see Cruijff try it for four years, just to see if the greatest genius in Dutch football could be successful, but…

  25. i’m for guardiola and consider having a foreign coach is a good idea. but it might cause problems,too. first: the language – even if everybody speaks english,the coach won’t understand it. second: the big ego problem. i just remind you guardiola started by getting rid of ronaldinho,deco,edmilson,etc. at oranje he would do the same (robben, hunter or rvp,etc.). what do you think about the reactiob of the players? third: if the first results are bad,the public opinion might turn more easily against a foreigner than a dutch coach. even against pep.
    i don’t know. at the moment frank rijkaard seems to be the most secure choice. is he available? does he want this job?

  26. Rijkaard is under contract to 2013 with Saudi Arabia and his agent has already said he’s not a candidate. Adriannse was absolutely terrible this past year at FC Twente and his recent club history isn’t especially good. Gullit is a decent television commentator and that’s about it. The FA will never pick a foreigner to manage the NT and Guardiola would not take it if offered anyway.

    Poll in de Telegraaf today said that the two two choices are Louis Van Gaal and Foppe de Haan. Both have pluses and minuses but would be decent choices.

    Remember, whoever takes it, the job will be exceedingly difficult with a number of new players coming into the squad and qualification not guaranteed as the group is more difficult than the last two major championship qualifications.

    1. what do you mean with Co´s recent bad club history: becoming champions with Porto?

      With twente co got more points than his successor mclaren.

        1. please tell me more Carlos, which factors? Co did beat Benfica with attractive football right?
          Can you tell me what the Portuguese thought of Co? and are there any anecdotes?
          I am a huge fan of him but could not follow when he was in Portugal.

          1. Oh, I don’t know, the usual… Suitaces with money flying from here to there. Referees’ tropical holidays paid with FCP’s money. The referees get prostitutes (in Portugal mentioned as “fruit”) after the games in their hotel rooms. The president of the Portuguese KNVB was an FCP’s chairman just a few months ago… What can I say, a total f*cking disgrace!

            As for episodes regarding Co I only remember two.
            As soon as he arrived he forbade the players of training with rings, piercings, jewelry in general. He started a war right there. Specially with Anderson (the one who went later to ManU). I have the impression that he never was much liked there. Unsderstandbly, I must add. Being a civilized person that he is I think he soon realized in what kind of mess he had just stepped into.
            Another episode (after wich I think he made up his mind to leave FCP for good) involved Co being pushed, stoned and threatned by members of Super Dragões (the main firm at FCP), after a training session. The reason? Who cares.

  27. Lots of names being thrown around the press already.

    The coach must be Dutch. We must play ‘Dutch’ football. These are National competitions, not club kick-arounds.

    Rijkaard
    Hiddink
    De Boer
    Adriaanse
    De Haan

    ^ I would be happy with any of those guys.

    Koeman
    Van Gaal
    Jol
    Blind
    Gullit

    ^ No thanks. And Gullit? Really??

    Guardiola

    ^ Haha! Jokers….

    Strange as it may sound, I thought Marco Van Basten ‘looked the part’ when he was in charge. With Cruyff in his ear, and a bit more ‘spine’ on display, I would be happy for Marco to have another crack at the position.

    So long, Bert! I will miss your fluffy little hair. Thanks for the WC Final. For all your faults, you displayed tremendous conduct at all times. It’s a shame it didn’t work out, but that’s football. I will remember you fondly – your team not so much.

    1. And I wonder how many managers might now make themselves slightly more ‘available’ since Bert has stepped down?

      We cannot speculate on rumours of disinterested parties who were spuriously linked to the post while Bert was still technically in charge. To have shown interest in another man’s current job would have left a nasty taste in the mouth.

      It must always remain a highlight in any professional’s career to manage their country. The role must never be seen as a poisoned chalice. We have (a few) World Class players at our disposal. I sincerely hope there is now an increase of interest in the position.
      Of more concern to me is whether or not the KNVB can be trusted to make the correct decision.

  28. Van Gaal is a day-to-day manager, he likes to stamp his authority and doctrin through intense interaction with his players, so there is mutual understanding. Since the job involves part time interaction with the players, I don´t know if he can get his message across and the players can understand him in an effective way.

  31. I dont wanna see V.Gaal, he is too old and I can’t see it going well.
    Verbeek is too much of a grumpy man, plus isnt planning to leave AZ, Rijkaard doesnt seem interested. Mayne Gullit as the front, and take on an experienced, tactically strong assistent. Gullit and Foppe de Haan? After all Foppe is the only one to give us 2 freaking titles at the U-21 level, lol.
    Gullit the front, with Foppe de Haan doing most of the tactical work?

  33. I’m just thinking, what would be the best option for a leftback. Then I look at Coentrao and Jordi Alba, think back of Gio and conclude, it is relatively easy to convert left midfielders and even wingers – in the case of Coentrao- to be good leftback. We’ve done it numerous times, so has everyone else. Buttner was a left winger first, but I consider him a bit too old to succesfully convert to a CL or top lever defender. I think if you want to make a winger into a top class defender, you obviously have to start at like 20 and expose him to top opponents. Currently I see no left footed player around 20 that would be fit for this role.
    Emanuelson couldve been that, if someone had followed through on coaching him there, but him at leftback was abandoned rather quickly, Drenthe similarly, he was just too hyper for left back. Van Aanholt is having too much short periods at different clubs, its not healthy for him.

    What Im trying to say is the best left backs are often former midfielders or wingers. We should look there.
    Pieters would be best to try out at CB and Willems isnt ready for this level yet. Besides it never hurts to have more than one option.
    I just wonder what the hell went wrong with our youth development that we have such shit defenders. Portugal doesnt have as big a country yet they do manage to produce top class defenders. Hell, Eredivisie produced Heitinga.. considered a top talent back in the day, who pretty much underperformed all his life, and then Vermaelen, the underdog who is about 3 classes better. But structurally we need to seriously reconsider our competition. Maybe I should start a petition, lol. Beneleague with 16 teams here we come !! xD

  34. Unbelievable – good Goal article.

    For tradition they should ask Cruijff first – he should have been coach and now could be the time. How many of egos would really want to fight a legend? De Haan and Verbeek would be good candidates too. De Haan clearly saw a lot of this generation before and Verbeek directly addresses the fitness problem.

    Gullit has been bizarre – what a long record of coaching disaster. Would never have guessed it, but he’s a terrible coach by results. And god no Van Gaal – he WAS great. But the end at Bayern was scary.

    Anyway lots of pieces – but they should really think hard about not too much traveling, player comfort and not too many friendlies.

  35. I don’t like the constant merry-go-round of coaches:
    Rijkaard again? Hiddink again? van Gaal again?

    I like the idea of Foppe de Haan. If we are too re-build a bit with youth, there nobody who knows them better than de Haan. Sprinkle in our world-class players like Sneijder, Persie and the like and I think we will have a winning formula.

  36. Too good to be true! 😉

    The only good thing that came from this 2012 disastrous campaign…

    My choice would be Foppe definitely. I hear is kinda of retired somewhere in the Pacific… Too bad. But it would be really good. Some of the younger guys were U21 champions twice in a row with Foppe. From what I gather he’s quite good with the youngsters, despite his old age.

    The fact that is away could even be a good thing, right? Not being involved in the daily brouhaha. It really would be starting from scratch. Always a good thing after hitting the bottom.

    Hup Holland Hup!

  37. As an interesting post script the friendly on August 15 between Holland and Belgium has just been SOLD -OUT ! The King is Dead – Long Live the King (it seems)

    1. they probably want their chance to boo the players. Sadly, i think the starters of the euro will not be involved in the friendly. Poor lukdejong and strootman will be booed for no reason.

  38. Just read this funny joke – What is the similarity between a broken Pencil and the Netherlands Team at the Euros?
    They’re both poimtless !

  40. I think we need someone quite old that can be respected without ifs and buts. Someone like the Spanish coaches Aragones and Del Bosque … they were both very successful inspite of their age.

    My first choices would be Hiddink, De Haan and Van Gaal. Rijkaard i’m not sure it is a good idea with this team … Verbeek is too emotional and aggressive … De Boer i don’t want him to leave Ajax. It might also be a good idea to employ a pair where the total is larger than the sum of the parts if you know what i mean. Two who can work and trust each other, and who have complimentary skills.

  41. Don’t know if it already posted but koeman already ruled himself out. That’s when you know you got an impossible team to work with, when the guy that never refuses a job says no.

  42. @Carlos Vieira Reis
    Interesting and revealing post!
    If things are as bad as you say with referees etc. he must have been unhappy cos he is a very honest person.
    Many people have said co has changed , and if he was pushed or beaten by angry fans this must have made a deep impression on him. people throwing stones at him really?

    Altho his results were not bad people at twente thought him absent minded and disinterested, he could not tell the dark players apart and he could not agree on anything with the Twente staff.

    @Al I like this idea, an older coach with 1 or 2 young asistants seems better equipped to handle all the problems like el bosque does.

    Ronald de boer is mentioned often atm, he could be assistant of foppe, vgaal, hiddink, or Co. He is free and a fighter like his brother frank, its clear we missed that this time.

  43. Wasn’t it the same people that blamed him for not playing persie and hunter and vaart and sneijder who demaned his head??

    Case is, after worldcup final, i think he should have quit becoz in all likelihoods, he was most likely not going to make it to the final again and/or win it and everyone would see him disappoint.

    Thank you Bert for getting us to the final, because I don’t I will see Oranje in the final of any tournament in my lifetime.

    1. that is what Happel did in 1978. Quit; smart, of course. It took me 32 years to see another final with Holland playing and I think in 2010 we came as close as in 1978. If it was not for the shoe laces of Casillas ….

      Now, if it takes another 32 then yes, we are probably out of luck.. Will not see another one. We are in a sorry state now. Hopefully a new generation will emerge. But it will take a miracle to have a good WK2014. Then 2018 is 6 years away… Feels like it will take forever…

    2. I second SamNY. Thank you Bert for allowing me to see Oranje in the WC final in my lifetime. Unfortunately, the 1998-2000 generation was way better and would have entertained the world if they have reached the final instead. The world would have never forgotten such final. I wish BVM was the coach back then! At least, he would have made the more talented players BELIEVE they can do it and beat a mediocre Brazil team. The difference between Oranje 98 and Oranje 2010 is that the former had more quality and depth, yet they didn’t believe they can do it and were content with reaching the semi-final, while the latter had less quality and depth, yet the coach put the egos in-check (for the FIRST time ever in Oranje’s history)m, made them play like a TEAM, and believe they can win it all.

      1. Agreed. Btw, for those who haven’t seen the 98 game we could be loosing 3-0 by the time we equalized.. If it was not for pure luck and Sar…

        The only two times I have seen Oranje trashing brazil was 1974 and the second half of the 2010 QF…

        It says really something when a coach takes a mediocre talented team and makes a yo-yo out of brazil 🙂

  44. If Foppe de Haan won two under-21 titles, he must have something. Titles are titles.

    Also, notice Pirlo’s command at age 33. Maybe benching Kuyt wasn’t smart. I’m not comparing Kuyt to Pirlo except to say that his work rate is higher than anyone else the Dutch had–and since when is work rate not important. That was a huge problem for holland in this failed tourney.

    1. I agree. I know Kuyt isn’t the most gifted guy but he set a good example for the team. the guy runs like a banshee and Oranje seem more balanced in midfield with him in the side.

  46. GER-ITA:

    How is it possible that Jogi is starting Kroos in this match after NOT starting him in the first 4 matches? If he does well, he’ll be hailed as the genius but the goat if Kroos f*cks it up.

    Regardless, I have to say that I’m very impressed by Jogi. He really seems to have full control of the team.

      1. no no no…

        Italy stayed back, well organized defense and played with counter-attacks. They should lose the game 🙂 🙂 🙂

        ah, I forgot… the rules changed !!! if the Oranje play like Italy, it is not a football lesson. It is a travesty. Ah, now I get it 🙂

  48. If KNVB goes for Van Gaal or Foppe de Haan, they may as well try to get JC. Their ages are in the same range aren’t they? If you want to live by the sword, die by the sword, play attractive football so who care if we lose, we should give the job to Van Gaal or Adriaanse, or even JC. It may bring success, who knows. It is worth a try, isn’t it? JC is playing too much golf these days. Let’s make his heart working harder, and make him smoke again. I see that not many coach are interested in this job right now.

    1. JC only cares about JC and he’s a quack, he’s always been a quack, a really talented quack. In all honesty who would want the job? All you have to do is read all the posts on the blog to understand why someone wouldn’t want it. Its a friggin death sentence and everyone – especially the players apparently have an opinion that count,

      For what its worth, Foppe would be my choice. Maybe he could get that U21 side motivated again,

  51. Wow…have we ever seen italy play this well? Germans look like they have no ideas, i dont think they can recover down 0-2…nobody saw italy being this strong, dark horse comes alive.

    3. If you check the blog long during qualifying, i sadi Italy was going to go far. After Lippi left they had to rebuild that winning WC squad. Who’s left from that team? hardly anyone and that what we need to do. Axe everyone bar Sneijder (our Pirlo)

      1. it’s not only that, it’s the rise of juventus where the players all play on the same team, it’s like getting an advantage, Holland needs players to play together at club teams, We all know money reasons they can’t stay at ajax, but they could have 2-4 guys at teams in spain, germany, italy, england.

        like nigel de jong and Stijn Schaars are wanted by inter, put them together with sneijder, great,

        Maybe afellay goes to arsenal with van persie.

        Or strootman and sneijder at manchester united,

        van der vaart and huntelaar at schalke maybe

  57. I’d say it’s more a generational problem. Pretty much like what happened back in the early 80’s.
    If all these players would have been playing back in the 1988-1992 period I sincerely doubt they would have even been called to be part of the Oranje. Only exemption to that would be Sneijder.
    Now regarding Bert, well, he was the coach that took us back to the final match in the WC2010, but his game did not look pretty much like what we know as Dutch voetbal. I thought it was extremely ironic that Nederland lost to a team that played the total voetbal that we invented. It was both, ironic, and sad. Very sad.
    And again, these kids, they don’t come anywhere near Krol, Gullit, F. De Boer, Bergkamp, Van Basten, Neeskens, Kluvert, or Ronnie Koeman. We will have to wait for another golden generation, and some coach with a strong personality to carry them out to glory, like the one and only Rinus Michels (RIP, master).

  58. Did LöW outcoach himself? I mean constantly changing the team? It might have worked against a feeble Greek team, but they showed their fear of Italy by not playing a proper winger on the right.

  59. I agree with Eric. Initially I hope that we keep core players and bringing more young players so we have a mix of experienced and young. This way we have a good chance to qualify for WC2014. Now if we decide to rebuild like Italy (I think they have Buffon, Pirlo and De Rossi, the rest of the squad is new), do you think we can at least qualify for WC2014? We do not have the head coach yet so it is hard to tell, but I think the current generation is quite talented. The next generation (Maher, Classie, Narsingh, Ola John, Dos, ….) is not proven and I still think they are not as talented.
    I really do not want to wait 32 years to see Oranje in WC final like Demi said. I want them to win another Euro and the first WC in 8-12 years.

    1. >I really do not want to wait 32 years to see Oranje in WC final like Demi said

      hahahaha 🙂 🙂 my girlfriend told me “what is wrong with you? you celebrate for 2 years now like you guys won”

      so I told her , it took 32 f years to feel that , shouldn’t I enjoy it while it lasts?

      my friend, if you don’t really live those 32 years, then you cannot fathom how excruciating it really is !!!

  60. We need strong clubs with good young players development at Eredivisie top clubs (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, AZ….). I think Ajax and Feyenoord are on the right track.

  63. Frank DeBoer should take over at Oranje. I know he’s doing great at Ajax but I’m sure Ajax can replace him. Seems like we don’t have anyone at Oranje now. Oranje comes before Ajax for me. If we miss out of WC 2014, it would be a great disaster.

    1. SamD… Oranje is important but Ajax is also equally important. So is Feyenoord, PSV, Twente, Hereeven, AZ, Vitssee etc etc. Why? Because if Ajax and the rest do not flourish with good dutch young talent now, then Holland will not floursih now or tomorrow.

      It matters who is in charge NOW of our club teams.

      Frank de Boer is doing the right thing. So many other people in his position would have jumped at the “big job”. But he is making sure that Ajax are strong for the future and directly/indirectly making sure Oranje will be strong for the future.

      I’m sure one day Frank will have his chance, and hopefully when that chance does come he will benefit from the foundations he has laid TODAY.

  64. In the last game vs Portugal, after 1-0 lead, why didn’t Bert asked the team to play defense and counter-attack? That way the midfields and forwards help out the defense and we had a better chance to counter attack and get the 2nd goal that we needed. Perhaps with this team it would not help but today after Italy had the lead, the second goal was a very good counter attack. Thank you Bert for 2010 (had Robben not missed…).

  65. Well , I think We should learn many lesons from the Italians .

    they were destroyed by Oranje 4 years ago with 3 goals and look at them now . they are in the final and we’re out with three losses from the group stage .

    although they are suffering from another calcciopoli scandal but the team players are all united and play as a team .
    their team is mixed experienced players and young players .

    Btw guys i’ve been thinking abiut the new coach , what about LEO BEENHAKKER ? why no one mentions his name ?
    I know he’s too old but , c’mon .. he isn’t older than Alex Ferguson , is he ?!

    1. no leo beenhakker,thx… he was the coach of in 1990,and this fact says everything…

      i’m not surprised by italy,this german team is overhyped and their defence (especially badstuber and boateng) is very average. italy were far better.

      1. ” It is an art in itself to compose a starting team, finding the balance between creative players and those with destructive powers, and between defence, construction and attack – never forgetting the quality of the opposition and the specific pressures of each match ” ~ Rinus Michels .

        Wish we had someone like him now 🙂 .

    2. Well, Leo Beenhakker might be Dutch, but he never really went ahead with the Dutch way to play voetbal. Even if we forget the what he did with the Oranje back in 1990 (an “atrocity”, in my way to understand voetbal, bearing in mind he had four of the best footballers of all time in his team!), the way he made his teams play was anything but Dutch. Typical 4-4-2, Real Madrid, no rotation, no excitement at all.
      Beenhakker was a good coach, just not the class one would like for the Oranje.

  66. wow this was the best game of the euro for me… Italy passing so well between the lines, and every time they came out they were dangerous but poor finishing or this would have been 4 0, which what I was hoping for. Montolivo, Cassano, Pirlo de Rossi were fantastic. The italians showed germany is not that great at all, which I was thinking from the start, I thought especially Ozul was poor, and they were weak in the defense. If only we had pressed germany back and tested the german defense. Why could we not expose them like Italy did? Now hoping that Spain will be beaten on Sunday.

  67. football is funny… we totally would have beaten italy.. they played great and all but i don’t think they would have beaten us……

    I hope I am not disappointed by Van Marwijk’s replacement…. for me Guus and Frank de Boer would be the only 2 options….

  68. Demi, I’m not sure if that was the case, was it? If Bert stayed then no Robben then? Bert chose to resign. I hope the new coach can stamp his authority or it is over before he coach a game. We all remember the 90WC, so much expectation just like now. Like Ferenc I do not think Leo is the good coach now for this team, and yes we would not have a chance against Italy. Without a good coach and a good plan, we would not have a chance in September either.

  69. Who is paying KNVB salary? We do not have a billionaire to pay for Russian national coach’s salary, but I hope this is not about money. Are those KNVB board member have good football knowledge or are they banker/finacer/trader, businessman (like the FIFA president)?

  70. A funny kind of Karma that this german team is knocked out.
    Remember “Arjen Floppen”? The only reason Bayern didn’t win the champions league? Well, today I saw a number of other flops, Gomez, Badstuber, Lahm, Kroos…

    I wonder what Bild, Beckenbauer et all, are thinking now?

  71. Italy looked like they wanted it more…never saw a defence run so much towards the ball and defending like their life depended on it. Never saw Italy play like this either. Well done Azzuri !!

    1. >never saw a defence run so much towards the ball

      I think Italy does that more often than not though… they have mastered the art of aggressive defense. Consider though that in Italy they will not be yelled or ridiculed if they win with counter attacks 🙂 🙂

  73. @Carlos, that’s how to play for the country: passion and pride. Holland needs to find a coach who can motivate players (in addition to select the right players and implement the right tactic).

    I am still waiting what JC will say about the future coach of Holland.

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