Naive Oranje humiliated in France

blog Euros 2024 UEFA Nations League
by Jan

The number of times I had to write “boys v men” on this blog in the past decade is simply not funny anymore. Rafael van der Vaart compared our game v France with youth football.

This virus plagued Oranje got hammered by a lethal France and only have themselves to blame. Debutant Geertruida and youngster Xavi Simons are two of the players who scored a decent rating. Most of the others disappointed gravely in an avalanche of errors.

When Daley Blind is the cause for the only positive aspect of this game, you know we’re in trouble. Daley got his 100th cap for Oranje and joins the Oranje elite (behind Sneijder, Van der Sar, De Boer, Van der Vaart, Van Bronckhorst, Kuyt, Van Persie and Cocu and just in front of Robben).

In the 21st minute, when we’re trailing 3-0 against Les Blues, the stats tell the story: Holland has close to 70% possession of the ball. France has 3 shots on goal. Holland has 4 shots on goal. France has 3 goals. Oranje zero, nada, zilch.

We dominated the ball but France scored the goals. Deschamps gets the game he dreamed of, with The Netherlands gifting Coman, Kolo Muani and Mbappe all options to counter attack with their speed.

Koeman’s line up surprised a bit. Berghuis as winger/midfielder was a surprise to me, I expected Xavi Simons there. And I expected Malen, with his speed as well. I hoped for Wieffer but he wasn’t 100%, so Koeman decided against him and picked Taylor. Gravenberch was added to the squad late, after Veerman had to depart due to the gastro virus, but Taylor had more games at Ajax. De Roon was an obvious choice. But to play Geertruida and Timber “against type” was another surprise.

Oranje’s 70% possession didn’t do much for us. Why, because the French coach had a good idea which Dutch player to allow the ball. Griezmann covers Taylor (like he used to do on Frenkie) and De Roon is the man in midfield allowed to build up. Not his strength.

Another remarkable aspect: Koeman wants his full backs to remain wide and hugging the line. Ake on the left and Timber on the right usually play more inside as full backs (like Malacia at Man U and Geertruida at Feyenoord). Playing so wide means that the centre backs Geertruida and Van Dijk have difficulties reaching the wide man and regularly only see De Roon as their outlet. Again, not the man where you want the build up to start.

And this happened under Koeman I as well: the moment De Roon is played in, the French midfielders pounce hoping for a mistake. And this is exactly what happens in the first 90 seconds when Holland is patiently kicking the ball around.

The ball is on the right flank. Taylor omits to look over his shoulder, he only sees the ball. He is played in and is totally obliviousto Griezmann making a go for the ball. He passes square to De Roon who is hijacked by Rabiot and two passes later it’s 1-0. Also check the video to see how Taylor jogs back instead of busting a lung to mark Griezmann who ended up scoring their first goal.

The second goal is also the result of an error. It’s Cillesen this time who should be able to just collect the ball from a free kick from the right. But the NEC goalie misjudges the ball and the leather bounces from his arm onto the oncoming Upamecano: 2-0. An error yes, but at least one that you can sympathise with. A number of attackers and defenders were jumping in front of Cillesen, obstructing his views. A mistake like this is easily made. But … not nice to be 2-0 down after 9 minutes.

The free kick, from where this goal came, was the result of another positional error by the team. As you can see below.

Van Dijk is trying to play the offside- Liverpool style. But Timber and Geertruida have other ideas, probably due to the speed of MBappe and Coman. The pass is good, towards Coman and Geertruida makes the foul.

This miscommunication is typical for a team that doesn’t show any unity in thinking and doing. The players are too busy with their own individual role and don’t seem to see the bigger picture.

The third goal is after we see a variant used by Koeman in his first period, with a holding mid (normally Frenkie) dropping deep next to the central defenders to start the build up. This used to work, with powerhouse Dumfries high up the right channel. With Timber, it’s less logical. The Ajax central defender is best in the axis of the field. Why Koeman switched Geertruida and Timber is anyone’s guess.

This is just before the goal. Geertruida carries the ball. De Roon takes Timber’s spot. No one in midfield is open, so Geertruida is looking for Timber who is free. But the pass lacks pace, Hernandez read it well and sprints full swing to intercept the ball. In terms of numbers, this should not be a problem, as we have De Roon, Geertruida, Van Dijk and Ake in the defensive organisation while Taylor is also behind the ball. But still we get in trouble, as the players are not ideally positioned and Taylor does not coach his team mates like for instance De Roon or De Jong do in Oranje, or Kokcu at Feyenoord. So no one puts pressure on Tchouameni, the task of Wijnaldum. And when MBappe is at full speed, it’s De Roon who needs to track back, not something he does well. De Roon also lacks the speed needed. Muani lets the ball run and Mbappe gobbles it up: 3-0.

Koeman then switches Timber and Geertruida back to their usual positions and brings Weghorst for the disappointing Taylor, to spice things up a bit. It’s a bit too little too late, as France knows the match is won and they do take their foot off the gas. Therefore, it’s hard to judge the eleven that play the remainder of the game for us.

The game ends with another amateuristic error: a risky pass forward by Van Dijk, miscontrol by Memphis and he seems to pay the perfect assist to his friend MBappe who scores a superb 4-0.

Memphis missing a late penalty for Oranje is typical for the teams performance, on a night when everything we do fails.

Holland doesn’t have the calibre players that France have. As the saying goes: the better team will win against the better individuals. Sadly, Holland also doesn’t have the better team…

 

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38 comments

  1. High time really to wield the axe on Cillessen, Blind, De Roon, Wijnaldum, Klaassen, Bergwijn, Berghuis, Depay in my opinion. They have done the best they could and can’t possibly get the team to a trophy. LVG, a master tactician and strategist tried to mold a team but failed. We can’t expect Koeman to out-perform LVG given that he did with his selections and then the team he sent out Vs France.
    Can Koeman be sacked? Will KNVB has the guts to do it before our euro24 dream is quickly extinguished?

  2. De roon is the least press resistant player with Dumfries we have in squad… And we play debs dm.. Ha ha thats joke… In modern football no top team will do that… May be mediocre teams will do that… Dumfries has workrate and speed and he is on wide wings.. So mistake from Dumfries may not be harmful apart from wasting some good movements… Why the hell de roon?.. We need ludovit reis, van de boomen, weier or Jerdy Schouten for that… Not de roon…

  3. I am happy for malen… As i was the only one rooting for malen.. Everyone was behind lethargic Danjuma…
    Why memphis is taking all penalty and free kick… Our best penalty taker and freekick taker is koopmeiners… Even Gakpo is not bad…
    These kind of defeats are welvome and this would expose deadwoods.. We need a cleansing permanent drop for Cillessen ( bad attitude, naïve, kind of coward behavior ).. Gini (past his prime).. Blind (past his prime)… Berghuis( 30 year done).. De roon( poor quality player never deserved oranje level ).. Klassen (30 year old, we have better players )..

  4. I really like Janssen and luuk.. Unselfish brave players.. Made the way for others… More can copy the charatctor of luuk And Vincent… Kudos..

  5. The character of Luuk and Vincent? You mean, the character to quit on your country? The character to decide to not want to represent your nation? That character?

    One does not simply decide to not want to play for the NT!

    1. Ha ha Jan.. They played for NT, they couldn’t, they are getting old, smart unselfish guys.. Left the way for others.. Age is not just number, the biological decay is inevitable… This is not war.. This is sports,.. I feel other experienced failed ones are greedy to hang on.. Especially when they contribute nothing special than average.. Always sacrifice is key, i salute luuk and vincent for that.. Offxourse they might come back if they feel there is lack of quality.. Which is not the case…

  6. Brutal. Nothing else to say. I know I am more of historical view kind of guy, with my belief in cyclical and recurring trends, as opposed to the majority of you being immersed in the specific tactical adjustments, but the 4-0 hammering isn’t what really gets me down. After all, even Johan and the great 1970’s squad lost to Poland 4-1 in the Euro ‘76 qualifiers. What absolutely gives me the blues (or should I say “Les Blues”) is that level of talent and the depth is totally different. The Netherlands team today has no clue who or what they are, should be, or can be. Not a single one has any idea of “Totaal Voetbal” anymore. There is no longer a single unifying and cohesive plan of what is “Dutch Football” anymore. All is see is reactive and spastic approaches from an ever revolving cast of coaches and players, who often either use the National Team as a springboard to a fat contract anywhere in Europe outside of the Netherlands, or to cement and expand their stranglehold on and in the KNVB is pursuit of some narcissistic glory ride.
    Getting back to the chasm of what we had in the ‘70’s versus today. That Johan squad came back and beat the Poles 3-0 and secure their advancement. This team doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of replicating that.

    1. I 100% agree. I honestly would not be surprised to see a lengthy return to the 1940’s through the late 1960’s in regards to the KNVB. The rest of the footballing world saw why we did, emulated it and improved upon it, while we kept trying to play beautiful football in way that has long passed. We deserve everything we are possibly going to get. How long before we begin to celebrate victories over Luxembourg and Cyprus?
      God forbid it!

  8. Good analysis.

    If you are playing, arguably the best team in world football, your first concern as any amateur coach or observer, would be to have out there the most settled and resilient group of defenders you can muster.

    Swapping Geertruida and Timber, and predictably unsettling them positionally is truly a travesty. It also speaks on the overthinking of these Dutch coaches and this quest for genius in seeing things that the rest of the universe could never discern.

    Koeman also started incredibly cocky. Not going three at the back(regardless of the defensive absences) and knowing that you are playing France, conjures the attitude of Oranje royalty and how they yearn to regift the world back with the brilliance of the 1-4-3-3.

    Koeman is not half the tactician that LVG was. He hasn’t had success nor does he have the love for the 1-4-3-3 that LVG has exhibited. But even the Iron Tulip with all his ego knew where to draw the line in terms of accommodating this formation. Not koeman. Right off the bat, he declared the return of the Dutch classic formation, effectively limiting and tying himself up in a knot.

    That’s why it was so easy for him to disregard a prospective huge player like Frimpong. Talking about his defensive frailties. And what further excuses do you have for Matsuwia and others of similar ilk?.

    That’s why it’s so comfortable for him to centre his project on Ajax players, who though well versed in the system, nevertheless are clearly not of required quality. Kenneth Taylor??

    What is Blind still doing in that team? Organize a thank you friendly for his 100th cap or call and play him against a Gibraltar after qualifications have been wrapped up. Why are you worried about the number of caps for a player whilst putting your team in jeopardy?

    And if that’s not the reason why he is there, it would even be more disappointing. Blind, De Roon, Klassen, Berghuis and to a lesser extent Wijnaldum. Why?? What have we not yet seen from every scale of these players through trials and errors?

    Koeman is fully out of the shadows. He has spoken loud and clear. The pudgy silhouette of the fate-maker lurks no more. He is fully announced, drumming away, and the beat goes on..

    1. Very well said and written orangutan, couldn’t agree more; talking about blinds 100th cap forgetting you’re playing against almighty France, undermining frimpong who is followed by half Europe and considered best right wing back by many, playing Kenneth Taylor who doesn’t even deserve to be in the u21 and then taking him out after 30 minutes which proves you had no clue what you are doing ….. and more and more !!!!

  9. I would utter the same seintment on the pritories and goals of KNVB and koeman when deciding to giving Blind his 100 cap. I went and had a look at the stats on NT caps . Robben had 96 caps and didn’t need to play 100 caps to prove anything and neither he received a farewell match. But in the case of blind he always needs to get that special privilege as usual so that he gets that special status core of joining the list of elites of Dutch footballers . All in the bid to make him look like somebody which he never was and would have been if not for his father and his close relation with Van gaal. No use debating and nether this a rant but absolute truth. I mean look at Malacia’s treatment ( needed when required, no rotation, no competition, make shift) even though he was competitive enough and only lacking international experience. This is how it was staged and was cooked under father and van gaal and again all in the bid for self acclamations. I mean realistically if you dissect this, if Van gaal would have genuinely reinforced that LB position giving malacia game time from day 1, it would have paid dividends now knowing Blind time in NT was coming to a end but instead the agenda was something else and as well as the goal.

    Being said this if koeman doesn’t clean his acts up he will find himself in the same boat as hididink who also got caught in the aftermath of 2014 taking over from Van gaal who again built his team on that precise formation.

  12. Koeman is stuck in the mud and silly when he announced he will revert to 433, obviously trying to show he’s the boss and discrediting LVG 532.
    Given the players we have now, we can actually play a 352. How good and athleticism we can have with Malacia and Frimpong as wingbacks. Both are playing top European football compared to their peers!
    If Koeman ain’t changing his style, we are in deep trouble! Just feel he is going to destroy our new generation of players! 🤬😖

    1. @ycsng0822 not that quick. Let’s lose to Gibraltar then we will see. Perhaps, Koeman will invite father and son Blind to play against Gibraltar.

  15. This continuous story of bias towards Ajax players should stop after the French humiliation!!! I am a big Ajax fan, I was super happy in 18-19 champions league watching Ajax demolish Real Madrid and Juventus with a golden generation Frenkie-de ligt-van de beek and hakim (too bad he picked Morocco) and the others , but this current Ajax is incompetent full of mediocre or finished players , the last golden boy they produced was sold to Bayern this year (Gravenberch)!!! So it is time for koeman and his friends to spend sometime watching some other teams like AZ for example and pick Tijjani for example instead of finished klaassen, it is not working anymore that any player who has a pulse at Ajax gets picked for oranje immediately, only two days ago we were being told that we don’t know as much as koeman knows, but obviously koeman starting Taylor against France and taking him off after 30 minutes says otherwise 😉 !!!! How on earth did he really think he was going to face France with Kenneth and DE Roon in midfield ???? We had so many absentees ? Yeah true but there were few excellent options not invited like tijjani and Gravenberch!!! Why? Because he had to invite all his Ajax midfield players like klaassen-Kenneth and Berghuis!!!! If things don’t change in June and calling players doesn’t really become based on merit and not bias like it is now I hope he loses to Croatia so maybe he can get an early sack so we can move on to something better hopefully

  17. Guys, no need to be all so negative immediately. We are in a group with France as favorite. They won 4-0. It’s just 3 points. We will most likely win our other games and go to the Euros as second in the group. Big deal.

    France is really way better than us. It’s not funny anymore. We missed Frenkie and Gakpo, I think De Ligt was missed too as is a better goalie.

    Cillesen is a bit scared. Oliver Kahn would have taken two French players with him trying to take that ball.

    We need to be patient. I think Danjuma, Cody Gakpo, Bergwijn, Wieffer, Gravenberch, Van der Boom and Bijlow will make a difference. We will see more good things from Simons and once Koopmeiners returns and Koeman will bring Frimpong and Reijnders in, we will definitely see a better team.

    Not better than France, but better than Greece, I’d say.

    The circumstances surrounding this match weren’t easy, with the virus going around and the two mistakes early in the game.

  18. Interestingly Daley Blind was better than many players vs France.. He was much better than Gini, Deroon and Taylor.. Let Taylor develop till then big no… My worries are slow integration of new players.. Throwing Geetruida and CB against france made me. Remmber that danny blind throwing De ligt vs bulgaria… Scary stupidity… You can throw in debt attacker but defenses need clam and mentally composed players.. Anyways koeman ignoring Gerdy Schouten, Tijjani, And van de boomen, Frimpong, Hartman looks not nice.. It is stupidity.. Also Cillessen is not a brave guy or leader.. Bijlow is… I. Like Noppert, bijlow and verbrugen to be our top 3 gks.. Also its too late for summerville to add.. Depay and Berjwin should start from bench… Gakpo and deligt back in training.. De vrij flew to italy for his kid… Given the koeman selection next up should be..
    –Depay——Malen—-
    –=====Simmons—=======
    Gravenberch —wijnaldum —–
    –_——weifer-_——–===
    Malacia –Virgil–Deligt___timber
    —=======bijlow —-=====

  19. @Jan- You don’t get it. People are upset because of the loss. We knew France could be us. People are upset because of the overall Koeman’s team selection. Koeman brought back the same guys that have been useless to this team for years now. When are we going to finally moving forward? When are we going to start rebuilding? When are we start going to a new direction? That’s the frustration Jan. Like Orangutan said Koeman could have organized a nice friendly game for Blin. His selection showed you that there isn’t anything good to expect going forward. What makes you so confident we can quantify?

  21. That didn’t go well. Koeman can be as angry as he wants about it with his “no,no,no” (and he is not wrong about that), but I never like it when a coach blames the players. He needs to look in the mirror first, as he just go things wrong. Both the player selection and in the set up (inverting Timber and Geertruida) I’m not saying sack him after one game, that sounds a little extreme, but he has to do (much) better. You didn’t see anything that made them look like “his” team, that his stamp was on it. His Nations League team a few years back had a particular belief and style. This team looked like it was being handled by an interim coach.

    With FDJ, De ligt, Gakpo, added, plus a few selections from Noppert, Bijlow or Verbruggen, Lang, Danjuma, Koopmeiners, Gravenberch, Wieffer, Schouten, Botman, he has a group from which to build a good team. No excuses.

    Final note, sounds like I’m in the minority here, but bringing Blind in for his 100th didn’t bother me. The game was gone.

    1. Ok, if he thinks that the game is lost and was time to clear out the bench, then do something that will be of some benefit to the team, long term

      You can give a debut to Brobbey, shed out some nerves, play a Wieffer, experiment in any way you want.

      Blind’s 100 cap is of no consequence to the team other than an ego trip for himself and glee for his enablers.

      Here we have another generation of decent players like Tijanni, Matuwasi, Van Boomen, Frimpong, effectively been deprived of opportunities so players of a third-rated, has-been European side can always be on the side.

      It’s foul.

      1. Agree as well. Gakpo and de ligt were seen back in training and could start also.

        Moving forward I think time has come to bench depay and use him as super sub. This will add to much needed quality depth on the bench as well. Being said this like mentioned brobbery is in the squad, let’s see what he can bring. Weghorst just doesnt do it for me. His work rate and high energy is always evident but he doesn’t bring that threat that could deter the defenders and let’s hope brobbrey can bring this and arieally as well. ( beast mode). Let’s rotate him and depay in each halves.

        Gakpo upfront could be another option after wards when other wings are available and looking at his trajectory and how he has been deployed at pool.

        I also think van den bommen needs to come on board and take over the set piece duties. It’s a pity veerman had to drop out because I was hoping too see what he can bring with his creativity vs France.

        Gakpo- Brobbery- Malen

        Simons

        Gravenberch- Wieffer

        Malacia- Van Dijk- De lift- Geertruida

        GK

  23. Seriously guys… IT’s Koeman’s first week with the squad. Starting Euro qualications. Do you really think it would be a grand idea to have Hartman, Olij, Van den Boomen, Wieffer, Reijnders and Shaqueel Van Persie in the team? Come on!

    No coach would start away against France with 5 untested debutants who NEVER played together.

    Some of you are embarrassing yourself here.

    I do think better options were possible. And I do agree Koeman shat the bed a bit and made errors in his squad and team selection.

    There is nothing wrong with playing a false 9 versus France and thereby overload midfield.

    And if you believe in Geertruida, put him on his fave spot and leave Timber in his normal role. Switching these two is giving a motion of no confidence to Geertruida.

    We need a build up player on 6, not De Roon. Should have put Wijnaldum there. De Roon on the right of midfield to help Geertruida v MBappe.

    Then use Taylor or Gravenberch or Klaassen as work horse as left mid and Simons on the 10 role.

    Berghuis shouldn’t have started. Memphis on the left. Malen (speed) on the right, as he plays at Dortmund at times.

    We’d have speed and work rate in the team.

    Giving Blind his 100st cap is a non issue for me. Whatever.

    It would have been a HUGE mistake to use a completely renovated Oranje vs France, truly guys. You have been smoking some bad stuff here.

    If we would have stayed in the game for 30mins we would have settled and could have had a better game, with a draw as result.

    But the error in minute 2 and the error in minute 7 were too much.

    Piet Schrijvers would have collected that ball and put 3 players in hospital of which one was a Dutch defender. But hey…

    1. @Jan

      Re: Seriously guys… IT’s Koeman’s first week with the squad. Starting Euro qualications. Do you really think it would be a grand idea to have Hartman, Olij, Van den Boomen, Wieffer, Reijnders and Shaqueel Van Persie in the team? Come on!

      No coach would start away against France with 5 untested debutants who NEVER played together.

      I know you do not like the term gaslighting but here we go again.

      Here you are, stating the scenario of playing new players, in a crucial game, as something that has never been done and, rather frequently, by the Dutch national team. We all know that this is an easy thing if the player has the right brand hanging over them.

      Blind sr, against all serious judgment, started a raw de ligt over de Vrij, in Bulgaria, consequently bringing an end to our qualification hopes and thus another tournament.

      LVG also did it with Rensch, a substitute, in his club side. Only a disastrous performance on the day, by the young man, brought a hasty end to this experiment.

      And against France we have Koeman doing the same thing with Taylor. Although not an entirely newbie in the NT set-up, he has never done anything remotely close for club and country for a starting role against France. Not even in the squad one would think.

      The one defining denominator amongst these players is that they all play for the mighty Ajax of Amsterdam.

      A player like Geertruida, from Feyenoord, given this opportunity, is clearly an outlier and there is enough data to back that up.

      And again you come up with the “untested” line and, the great need for players to have played together to forge a workable team. In that case, why don’t we just select the whole Ajax team, minus foreigners, and just be done with it.

      And I see you are fond of hedging on these extreme positions and point of views to try to repudiate valid criticisms and observations. Nobody in this forum, and I mean nobody, that I know of, has ever called for any Dutch manager to slot 5 debutants in a game even against San Marino. The clarion call has always been for players in good form to be selected and given a fair chance to showcase themselves.

      How that translates to mean that we need 5 new starters only God knows.

      And really, if any NT needs a complete overhaul it is Oranje because nothing ever changes.

      We have France integrating Tchaomemi and Camavinga and Kolo Muani for the simple fact that these kids were given chance and we are still talking about how Blind can makeshift until Fdj recovers. It is preposterous.

      Alarming, defeatist mentality.

      But yet here we are, and you trying to convince us that, Koeman is not more of the same. That it is his first week with the squad. What squad exactly? Tried, tested and failed individuals.This squad selection has told me everything I need to know about his tenure.

      He is not as clever as he thinks. He has already exhibited bias tendencies. And indeed, he is the wrong man for the job. A prop of the highjacking job that a whole NT has been forever, subjected to.

      1. @orangutan

        Wow, the arrogance and therefore disrespect in your writing is ridiculous. I think Jans sentiment is that no coach would start 5 devutants/and or extremely fresh youngsters away to france in his first match.

        Emmanual advocated for Gravenberch, Simons, Geertruida, Taylor, wiefer. Thats 5 youngsters who are all pretty much debutants. To say that no one ever has advocated for 5 is really missing the spirit of Jans point and youre just trying to pick everything he says apart.

        You also have mistakenly supported Jans main argument. Jans point is that koeman is not going to test a whole bunch of youngsters out against france in his first game back. You have given a bunch of examples that did not work out well. This reinforces that its a bad idea to take the risk of playing youngsters without the right preparation.

        How that proves your point, only God knows.

        Get off Jan’s back and stop being such a dickhead. Youre so arrogant that you have already boxed koemans reign into a failed category. Let people improve, learn and grow. To already discount our squad and manager because youve already seen enough is just plain arrogant. All you have done is spouted off negative criticisms without any constructive ideas.

        Lets look at our available player pool and make a realistic goal and then see if we make it. Because lets be honest, when we don’t win the euros (which is statistically incredibly high), youre going to say “i told you so”. As if you have the secret formula to winning the euros, and the reason we didnt win is because no one listened to you, rather than the fact that our squad is currently not a top 5 nation.

        TBH, reading these comments are ridiculous. Theres a reason why the dutch are not well liked abroad and its because of the few dutchmen who are negative, arrogant, and say absolutist bullshit whenever things arent perfect.

  24. Let’s see. How would have starting 11 looked like if not for the illness. At best De ligt, gakpo would have started but still it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the game, maybe the margin would less but still France would have won. Let’s be realistic on this one.

    The last time the Dutch played without frenkie at most was vs Belgium in which they won under Van gaal in 3-5-2 setup. Was tight game until Van dijk popped up with headed winning goal but still you cant compare that Belgium team to the current French team to say Van gaal could have things differently either here. Belgium were toothless up front in that game.

    Overall koemans evaluation on certain players leading up to the selection especially with the change in system was wrong. I mean the things that he mentioned in the interview just didn’t add up.

    To say that no coaches would give debut to 5 newcomers and instead going with the dead woods is advertently madness and like I always say “ shooting your self in your own foot” you have to learn the lessons from the past. If you inherit a good team, it’s well and good but if you dont, you have to be decisive how and on whom you invest. It has to be spot on

    if I recall correctly when Van gaal took over from Van Mawijk in the aftermath of that disastrous 2012. He started fresh with with so many new faces, narsingh, de vrij, Martin indi, Van Rhijn, lens, viergever, Maher. He also made the same mistake going with experience and was crushed 4-2 by Belgium but then in the game he realized it and subbed on the new faces for the dead woods who basically turned out to be liabilities. It was friendly though but that paved the way for a major overhaul in team. Janmaat, clasie, Depay , Blind , strootman all got their break in NT

    Koeman should learn from his mistakes, pick up the pieces and move on. The players are there, he just needs to invest wisely.

  25. Whan i saw that many good players out of the team, i knew its trouble. When i saw the team lineup. I decided to keep shut my mouth. Feeling pained by the situation.

  26. Portgual are looking good as well I must say. Bernando Silva is such an underrated player. They also look to have abundance of talent coming through and then there is Ronaldo who seems to be in not giving up any time soon form. Could well end up playing another WC if not for injury.

  27. @Anthony

    From your laborious writing, I assume you would find it hard to differentiate between arrogance and confident assertion.

    Secondly, I don’t know who appointed you Jan’s lawyer but for the sake of clerical clarity, I would reiterate that I stand by everything I said.

    You trying to deduce and deduct and reduce my comments as some sort of support for Jan’s viewpoint is laughable at best and mostly just disingenuous.

    You singled out and used the example of Emmanuel’s (who we all can agree has some colorful insights) team selection as a blanket cover in attempting to draw a portrait of how this forum sees the evolution of this team.

    Rather, the opposite is true. 99.99% of our community members who have called for change, including myself, haven’t called for something so drastic.

    If I have to read you your ABCs, the popular sentiment and consensus for us that stand for change, is to give players performing well in their respective teams a chance, if even from the bench. Example, Weiffer was withdrawn today and in come Blind. How about Van Boomen, Matusiwa and Tijjani be part of that bench? And look to sub one of them in instead, and be hopeful for the future? How about try to see what they can do against Gibraltar and not rush them in desperation when things start going sideways.

    Blind, Klassen, Berghuis, De Roon are all surplus to requirements. We have the personnel to move on from these deadwood. Wijnaldum has looked spritely and can be a worthy squad player.

    And don’t try arguing with me. You can Google their performances for the past 5 years in major tournaments and qualifiers.

    1. @ orangutan.

      Talking in “absolutes” as if your viewpoint is the only one that could possibly be true is arrogant. In your writing, what would need to change in order for it to be arrogant?

      I singled out Emmanuel’s post because your previous argument is that no one ever on this forum has advocated for this. However, I’m disproving you by saying thar one of the most recent line up suggestions is advocating for exactly what you said has never happened. Bringing this back to Jan’s post, he may have been responding to Emmanuel but your cocky attitude discounted Jan and said no one has ever suggested that. You’re so arrogant.

      What does your abc paragraph have to do with anything I’ve said. You’re arguing about team selection. Please reread my post and maybe you’ll realize I didn’t even talk about team selection or tactics. I just told you that you’re being a dickhead.

      I agree that koeman made a mistake in his line up. But come on, you’re such a negative know it all. It’s exhausting to hear you spout youre arrogant negative opinions. Learn the difference between constructive vs negative criticism.

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