I am assuming you want our Dutch National Team to do really well…
That is the basis for this letter. If you don’t want this, please disregard.
I do believe good results by our national team can turned into euros, correct? Sponsor money? Trips? Merchandise? Ticket sales, etc?
And clearly, euros is what’s driving this. From what I understood, Mr Van Oostveen was quick to comment after our loss against Portugal that the financial ramifications for Oranje were tremendous.
So let’s put it all in perspective.
If Holland plays well, we gain standing. Opponents want to play us. And sponsors want us. If Holland plays according to the Dutch School ( you might have seen the Euros finals between Spain and Italy?), the Dutch football export product ( coaches, players, methods) will become more and more in demand.
Now, what is important is for you to accept responsibility for the fact that our football has deteriorated while a competitor has adopted our playing style and is kicking everybody’s arse.
You see, we had people like Michels, Cruyff, Van Hanegem introducing a new style of football.
We had the Gullits/Van Bastens/Rijkaards doing their magic in the 1980s, with true believers like Arrigo Sacchi following suit.
And Louis van Gaal and his Ajax and Ajax-crew ( Co Adriaanse, Blind, Mourinho, Frank de Boer) impressing even more in the 1990s.
We also had a tremendous coach like Wiel Coerver (winner of the UEFA Cup with Feyenoord) who developed a masterful method for skills-training and today one of his biggest followers is second in command at Man United (Rene Meulensteen). But like Johan Cruyff, Wiel Coerves was pushed out. “Too difficult to deal with”.
I can’t remember all the arguments and reasons you had for not allowing Johan Cruyff in the team manager’s role but it had to do with salary and the fact that Johan wanted to have his own staff… Man man, how pathetic and agricultural you guys were thinking back then. Look at today’s situation. No coach takes on a job without his own team or without at least 1 Mio euros as a yearly salary…
Shame on the KNVB, in other words!!
After Rijkaard, you gave the job to self-kicker and ego-centric Louis van Gaal. Who made a mess of things. Louis is a club coach. (And are you SERIOUSLY considering him AGAIN???).
You resorted back to easy-going Dick Advocaat, who went two steps back in time with his ugly result-football. But he didn’t bring the results. Neither did he in 1994, by the way, so why he was given the job in 2002…. no one knows.
Young, unproven Marco van Basten got the job in 2006 and he was allowed to insult and character-assassinate Seedorf, Davids, Van Nistelrooy and Van Bommel. He even told the media himself, recently: “I was much too young for that job. I didn’t know what happened to me.”
Poor Marco. Poor players. Poor fans. Poor Oranje.
Again, shame on you!
And now Bert had the job for 4 years. The results were great until the Euros 2012. But the quality of football deteriorated. The Dutch School of football evaporated. And slowly, the only aspects keeping this team together ( spirit, team, mentality, joy, desire, will) disappeared as well and as a result we were humiliated Ireland style.
Bert had nothing to fall back on. He hadn’t tested younger players. He didn’t have a Plan B ( which should have been Plan A in the first place: 4-3-3) and he simply failed.
Now the KNVB will have to make a smart move. As there is a lot at stake.
Not just “winning or losing”. But re-building our football culture.
Which means, defining our style of play. The characteristics of our football. And making sure we play like this with all our rep teams. From the 14 year olds to the pros.
Think in terms of: forward pressing, dominance, ball possession, pass & move, depth and width in possession, tight without possession, wingers and full backs using the space up front, defender with speed and build-up qualities, etc etc…
So we need a team manager for the big Oranje, that adheres to this playing style. Selects players for it.
Shouldn’t be too hard, as most players if not all can play in a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 system.
And works on getting these lads to play together as a unit. If we identify two or three young defenders that might have “it”, work with them. Talk to their club coaches. Make a development plan. Invite them for sessions.
So, our friend the team manager needs to focus on tactics, on mentality, attitude and desire.
And what he does, fits in perfectly within the football culture of the KNVB. In terms of practice material, supporting functions such as physiology, nutrition, video analysis and other supporting facilities.
I think the KNVB needs a “culture management team” of three of four wise men who protect the Dutch football culture. They oversee (like a Board of Directors) the management team: Team Coordinator ( the current Hans Jorritsma role), National Coach and the Head youth teams manager.
These wise men aren’t too hard to pick: I’d go for Cruyff, Van Hanegem (both 1974), Rijkaard, Wouters or Gullit (1988) and Frank de Boer or Philip Cocu (1998).
And instead of taking trips to South America, Asia, Australia in the off season, you forget about those $$ and you allow the coach to work on his team for a day or 10 in the peace and quiet of Hoenderloo. To build and create a winning team.
It is your job to select the best man for the challenge. Or best men for the challenges. It’s also your job to create the ideal circumstances for these men top operate in.
So, do your job!
Jan of Jan’s Bleeding Orange Blog!
it’s possible to create the culture management team? it’s a personal idea or there are people asking for it?
Well, it’s been discussed before. A guardian of the football culture. But I don’t believe in “one strong man” I believe in teams.
now w’re talking jan!
i agree we need change but i’m not sure i agree with you about MVB (van bas ten) and BVM…. we might not have made it to the final in SA if it weren’t for BVM…. MVB (basten, not bommel) failed at the euros but another system would have likely failed with all these egos… although i agree other systems/player should have been tested.
it will be very difficult to find a manager to ‘fix’ the problem but we need to work on our defense before going back to our Dutch-style attack. We need to teach our boys to work hard before they play hard and that will be a tough lesson. While I am open to Frankie (Rijkaard), I am not convinced he can achieve that goal… I am not sure who can besides Guus Hiddink and even he might struggle with these guys… Sneijder need to be team captain first and foremost, he will put players in their place to help create a ‘winning atmosphere’.
You’ve written a lot of really good pieces before Jan… this has to be one of your best. Please send it to the KNVB.
“These wise men aren’t too hard to pick: I’d go for Cruyff, Van Hanegem (both 1974), Rijkaard, Wouters or Gullit (1988) and Frank de Boer or Philip Cocu (1998).”
Couldn’t have said it better. After I read this article I started to daydream. I saw Oranje playing the football we all want to see. I saw them fighting and playing for each other and playing for the pride of their football culture. The Dutch football culture is the reason Spain is having so much success. I hope in return Spain’s victories shake the KNVB into action creates success for ourselves.
Hup! Holland!! Hup!!!
I agree with almost everything you said above. Still, whoever the coach (I’d personally go for Van Gaal), you have to admit no magician can make this generation play as good as previous “golden generations”. I think some of the people here pointed before that most legendary National teams in the history of the sport lay most their strength in one or two of the biggest clubs in their leagues. Well, after seeing Ajax, Feyenoord, or PSV, the last three years… do you really believe we had a world champion team with these players? Back when the Oranje was huge, so do were our clubs in Europe. You got Ajax and Feyenoord back in the first half of the 70’s, PSV in 1988, and Ajax in the 90’s. The Clubs were European champions, and literally destroyed every opponent in their way. Nowadays their not as good as the eight best in Europe! I guess that alone is a sign of the quality of this generation.
And while this is a problem I keep thinking of, I agree with you 100% that we need to go back to basics, and return, and learn again was really is Dutch voetbal. Let’s hope the Total-voetbal culture is not completely gone with the great Rinus Michels.
bosman ruling meant players got to move freely, so of course ajax and other dutch clubs aren’t rated as highly, Not including the obvious signings of better dutch players, and transfers if they were a bigger money team. Just making a team of best former and current players playing now.
Ajax Team if they kept their players
Atk:Suarez, Huntelaar, Ibrahimovic
Mid: Sneijder, Anita, Van der Vaart
Def:Emanuelson, Maduro, Heitinga, Van der Wiel
Bench: Vermaelen, Vertoghen, nigel de jong, Van rhijn, ryan babel (who knows if he stayed)
What about PSV?
Att:Robben, Toivonen, Mertens
Mid:Strootman, Van Bommel, Afellay
Def: Willems, Pieters, Alex, manolev
I mean we are talking about an alternate reality in which if dutch leagues had money like spain, germany, england, or italian teams, we could easily be winning the champions league at least every 5 years.
i don’t know what else to say, besides what you said, thats the biggest problem facing holland today, Management,
Lets not lie to ourselves and believe our defenders are bad just because the media says they aren’t, before this year, mathijsen actually was great, but age or injuries or both did him in, Heitinga don’t know what happened to him.
The media and fans think if i haven’t heard of him he sucks mentality.
The Biggest issue with dutch football is KNVB management. Being worried about money creates a negative feedback loop, they are happy to play bad and win, as long as winning makes money, But because they are playing bad, it causes you to eventually lose. So now that we’ve lost, we get less money anyway. And it seems they want to recreate it with the template they gave for the next manager.
If you play Great and win, you still make the same money, and if you play great and lose, well your still a big draw. bigger draw then you get when losing.
It’s hard to explain, but they need to focus on winning while playing great, as simple as that. And it’s a catch-22 with these trips all over the place, You lost, so now your going to try and make as much money as possible, while tiring our players, Making them more prone to injury, causing you more likely to lose. which in turn will mean less money and more lean years. If you focus on winning again, and win, you play less but make more money in the long run.
Anyway, Whats the deal with luuk de jong, i heard he can also play winger, what if he’s kuyt the second coming and ends up playing winger!
But first did he move to borussia monglendbach (champions league football) ?
Heitinga was alright when our team functioned as a team in defence and V.Bommel could actually clear some problems for him, now it shows that Heitinga just is lacklustered. He seems out of shape, he was in this state before, at Atletico, he also looked so slow, like he just eats too much and moves too little. Like a spoiled primadonna. You dont see Pique or Ramos being as static as Heitinga.
Mathijsen actually was a steady performer but age is catching up with him, and the fact V.d.Wiel and Willems, and our midfield got overrun kind of makes it difficult for a 30+ year old to keep up.
whatever you do, think twice. This is not the time for experiments. We have *everything* to lose. Invest on the right coach, the money will be returned. The right coach is not cheap. I think we both know who he is … Do it !
van basten doesn’t want it, that means he’s crossed out the list
So no Van basten, No koeman, No de boer, no verbeek, no hiddink
Louis Van Gaal
Frank Rijkaard (he didn’t say no)
Ruud Guilit (he wants it)
Martin Jol (never know)
Henk Ten Cate
Patrick Kluivert (???)
Pep Guardiola (a guy can dream)
did cruyff say no ?
no cruyff didn’t say no, but will knvb ask him to be manager?
Cruyff will not put his hand up. The KNVB will have to go to him.
It’s great to have casillas as a captain for your team .
He didn’t want the refree to add injury time in respect for Italy
@Mohamed, with all the millions that is circulating in today’s football and how fame may sometimes disturb moral. Its amazing how Casillas remains humble and his human side is intact. Salud para Casillas!!
I remember last year when the madrid and barcelona players were going at each other on/off the field, he invited all the national players to a dinner. He almost got kicked out from real, as mourinho took it the wrong way and thought that Casillas was going soft on the eternal rival…
I know he didn’t want the national team to disintegrate, but he also thought that the fans were to be respected because of all the on/off field drama…
However there is also another side of the national team and this is inline with what I have said in previous posts. Yesterday, Pedro was joking around and put a hat with Spanish colors on Xavi’s head. Xavi disinterested, threw it away and left it laying on the floor….
Make Van Persie player manager
lol RvP would instruct every player to pass him the ball. Even if a player dribbles past the keeper and has an open net they’d have to look for RvP and since he’d be wearing Oranje… HE’D MISS!
I took the initiative and sent it to the KNVB.
Well, I’m indifferent with blaming completely the KNVB for the last 6 years. Mind you, that their task is to give direction and bring in results. Bringing results means winning something and not be satisfied with coming in second. Marco Van Basten’s team played good football or counter attack football but failed. So under immense pressure and circumstances, the KNVB decided to go in a totally new direction. Ok, it violated the true statute of what is Dutch Football and I for one was disappointed as well, but they are obliged to making key decisions. I personally think it was a healthy learning curve, it brought smiles to everybody at WC’10 (I don’t believe those who say they were not happy, we reached a WC Final after what…..?)
I say the manager should be able to combine good football (staying true to our colors) but also knowing when to defend or win dirty.
You don’t always have to stick true to your ideology of football, sometimes you have to be wise and smart as well. Spain has demonstrated to everybody that they can play smart football, when tiki taka is not working then at least lets not lose and defend correctly and win by the margin if possible. This is why I personally admit that they are a very strong contender for WC’14, because they know (now) how to adjust to the circumstances presented to them.
It seems Ruud Gullit really wants the job ..
Well , I never watched a team with Gullit as a coach , but appearantly , according to what i read , he wasn’t that successful .
What do you think he will do if KNVB gives him the chance ?
Why would we want to give him a second chance?? It’s not about Gullit is it?
Ridiculous to even say that. Oranje is not a play ground for ego trippers and failed coaches. I loved Gulliman as a player but how can people actually support him in the coaching role, because he has charisma??? Why not put Miss Piggie in charge? Or Lady Gaga? Or Rene van der Gijp?
I vote for Rene 😛 haha
This team more than anything needs to fix defense. It is absolutely clear that at the moment we don’t have good quality defenders who are able to perform at the highest level. Heitinga and Mathijsen have been utter failures. Their quality of play has just deteriorated to their lowest levels. I have no idea how Heitinga can be named Everton player of the year.
Just looking at how our team was dealing with opposition attacks was a nightmare. They seemed totally disorganized. Losing their designated opponent, playing out of position, effort, accuracy etc…It’s just amazing that we didn’t concede more goals than we did.
I’m sorry to say it but a lot of people here think that just playing attacking Oranje style football is the answer to all our problems. I don’t have a problem with that. I enjoy watching Oranje style football. However, in order for us to be successful, we have to have defensive solidity. The players need to have confidence before they can impose that style of play.
I don’t think Van Gaal should be brought back at any capacity. 1st of all, he was the biggest flop as a coach for Oranje. You can’t do any worse than not qualifying for a World Cup especially with the players he had in 2002. We also don’t want more sideshow distractions from his personality, media relations and management style.
Bottom line, we need a coach who will 1st and foremost address our defensive weakness. Oranje style attacking football is a natural for these players. They grew up playing that style and with that philosophy. It wouldn’t be too hard for them to revert back to playing that style no matter who is the coach.
Attacking style requires a certain type of defenders, one we didnt have, besides both in attacking and defensive aspect, the ‘team’ was non-existent, you need 11 players pressuring and defending if u play posession/attacking football. Otherwise, even with good defenders, youre going to have problems.
Way to go Boss !!
Gullit was a monster on the field – I do like Rijkaard better as a manager though. His comments on ESPN are not too great.
Gullit did fairly well at Chelsea back in the mid-90s. This was pre-Abramovich era when Chelsea didn’t have the money to splash at top players. He won the FA cup and was doing well the following season when he was abruptly sacked due to internal management disputes.
Almost a decade later, he took over at LA Galaxy in the MLS. His tenure there was not successful at all. It also had to do with some fundamental differences of how the MLS functions that ultimately led to his downfall.
Those are his two high profile management positions in my opinion. I don’t really know how good he is with handling player personalities. Would he be able to manage the egos of these players? Would he be able to earn the loyalty of these players?
A lot of unanswered questions when it comes to Gullit. Van Basten was appointed Oranje coach without any resume other than they Jong Oranje. My choice would be someone who is well known that has a proven track record.
Hiddink would be a good choice along with Rijkaard in my opinion. Hiddink probably would be a better choice as he is older and has more experience at the international level with decent success.
Gullit also managed Feyenoord but seemed to shallow and thick to see what was happening. His technical director Mark Wotte made a mess of things and his assistants weren’t up to the task. Gullit always thinks the Gullit magic will do things automatically. This is why coaches who were mediocre players or less can still make a good coach and why certain top players are horrible as coach. Gullit is a bon vivant. That works when you are extremely talented and naturally fit. But as a coach, you need to be Napoleon, Steve Jobs and Johan Cruyff in one package. Gullit doesn’t have the smarts. Sorry.
Jan, it is time to send the letter to KNVB as it is already overdue. You can add that all the fans here suffer long enough.
JC’s ego is still big. Like Jan said KNVB has to go to him. He may make them kneel on their knees and beg him. Who knows? If he put the country first perhaps he probably coached the team once (you can argue that he could not have his way but we never know) or at least put out the offer to help.
The way the players have their opinion, JC probably knows it well as he did the same thing (he probably tried to coach the team while he was playing).
Gullit was known more about his personal life than what he does in football. He can be the PR but not coach or manager.
Hien, are you Vietnamese?
Did Boss has to translate to Dutch or just plain English?
@ sam DC, Hiddink ruled himself out . Who would you opt for knowing that Hiddink is out…. ?
Brazil Odds for Holland right now…..
I think we have 2 things to solve here, plugging the holes in the short term so the ship stops sinking, getting rid of bad apples in the crew, and reassigning roles.
But in the longer term, the ship really needs an internal code of conduct, intensive screening, selection and managing of certain types of players and behaviour, a massive overhaul of the mechanics and strategy and a staff at the rudder. 😛 so to speak haha.
I like your analyst Alex, true management and risk management style. you see the big picture….play with the cards that u have but minimize total lost
yes exactly, thats why i liked to think of roel brouwers as a short two year replacement and giving a timeline for gouweleeuw, nuytinck, de vrij and others, hey, this is your chance, if you play better you get the spot, for now bouwers fills it temporary, he’s 30, he at least has 2 good years.
I nominate “DutchSoccerSite.org” for the vacant position to manage Oranje for WC 2014 qualifications and WC 2014.
Yes I think Alex suggestion is what will happen. Knvb will make task force to study failure in Poland, and come with changes in oranje and knvb too. The leson we learn from Poland will be so valuable, and we wqill get only better because of it. I am very pleased, 4 yrs I wanted this. vMarwijk was not bad but never made the most of our talent pool. We have players to play exciting football but it never happened, instead we got italo/german break away football.
I have said it numerous times here. We need a coach with a proven track record. I still believe Hiddink would have won us the 98 WC with that team if we had won the PKs against Brazil.
I believe he must be making a lot of money at Anzhi in Russia. He has been coaching club and country simultaneously in the past if I’m not mistaken. It is a bit distracting and requires a lot of travelling but he is the ultimate travelling coach.
Anyways, if he’s definitely out, we can’t get him.
Rijkaard and Guardiola would me my next favorites. Both play the Oranje philosophy. Both have won at the highest stage in Europe with one of the best clubs in the world. Barca! Very high profile job with lots of media coverage and scrutiny. Having to manage some of the biggest stars and egos which I think is what we need at this point.
Ditto on the choices but I would still talk to Guus one more time. He might do it, you never know…I cannot think of a better choice at the moment. Things are really bad !
agreed, and better him traveling back and fourth than gullet having beers with the players talking to them about sexy football and all….
like when i think about hiddink, i think why not do it, forget money, there is pride and ego, for him to win the world cup is to make him the greatest dutch coach ever, and one of the greatest coaches of all time
I hope he reads this board cause I am with you 100% !!!!
Come on Guus, it is your time now. Do it !
Make me the Coach. I “predict” I can win the WC 2014 and Euro 2016 with Oranje. If I don’t, I will stop making my correct (usually negative) predictions. WIN-WIN either way.
By the way, I was not born in Holland. I hope the KNVB makes an exception to accommodate me.
Vikram I want to see your line up. Before we send your resume to knvb we want to know your ideas, play style, which players will be selected by you and who you want for assistant? 🙂
So, I really enjoy this site and am so grateful for what Jan has done for this site… .definitely a place to keep Dutch fans happy during times of turmoil and uncertainty….
A BIG round of applause for Jan!!!!
Now, having said that is there any way any of you “techie” supporters can fix this site and clean it up so that we don’t have to navigate through old posts to see new topics… It is becoming more and more involved and time-consuming having to sift through old threads to come to new ones and share fresh ideas. Anyone at all can help out Jan because I’m no computer guy????
I love this site, its is just getting more and more difficult to navigate through it.. I am willing to make a donation towards maintenance and upkeep as long as the payment is secure…
I think it just needs some cleaning.. What do you guys think?? @ Jan?? New Videos would be nice too!!! and maybe a section for pics!!
Jan , love your work, but how can you want Gullit anywhere near Oranje ? I’m getting really worried.
Simon – read carefully – Jan hates the idea of Gullit !! But he is reporting that Gullit is a frontrunner ! (HELP!!!)
I don’t !!!!
Foppe de haan talking about Robben who didn’t track back in the EC to help VDW , same with afellay who didn’t help Willems ..
I do hope Foppe agrees to take the job .
can you please translate?
well , i don’t speak dutch but i used Google translate 😀
De Haan: “Robben let VD weil to his fate”
The players outside of Orange played a negative lead on the last European Championship. Think that Foppe de Haan, coach trainer from SC Heerenveen.
“The team did not function and if that happens, then the lesser players immediately fall by the wayside,” said De Haan NUsport. “The defenders were at the World Cup with the rest sucked. Now they were powerless.” I think mainly the players outside the rest have failed. ”
“Maybe Afellay still could not walk. But that had all the time Jetro Willems to his fate. You help this boy, then he is not all the time against two men,” said De Haan. “The same was true for Arjen Robben, who Gregory van der Wiel, left to his fate. In midfield they found each one deficit.”
“Wesley Sneijder thinks for eighty percent offensive. This way you always in trouble,” observes De Haan. “Van Marwijk has tried to repair. Robben Against Portugal he exhorted them to defend. Got you ‘keep your bek’ incident. That said a lot.”
Great points Jan,
They should definitely ask Cruijff. He was very succeessful as a coach and a legend would be worth a shot (but it’s not risk-less – ask Liverpool)
However, the team approach is the best. Set a long term goal and build toward it.
And yes agree with the trips. However, I get the sense that some of the players love them. So, I’d actually suggest asking them – do you want the trip?
But I’d add one other twist – they shoudl have a camp for players on the cusp. Players with all the talent in the world who just aren’t breaking into either Oranje or their clubs. Drenthe et al. In each tourney you just need that one or two extra players to push. And those guys in the process of washing up – could be those extra ones.
Plus one last note – Cruijff at least would entertaining to watch.
If I recally correctly, the KNVB tried to do something like this a few years ago. They had a Netherlands “B” team, and it was a joke. Players who are picked won’t jeopardise their clubs during the season – even if they do want to play, their clubs won’t let them go. The only option is to train and play a second team during the same international breaks for WC and EC qualifiers, and this would be expensive.
Mohamed .. Foppe meant that our poor defense was already apparent in WC but form of the team made them look better. This time, when the team played bad, the defense was exposed horribly-
But reading this interview I remember foppe is also kind of careful defensive coach: “Wesley Sneijder denkt ook voor tachtig procent aanvallend. Zo kom je dus altijd in de problemen”,
´Sneijder thinks 80% attack minded and brings the team in trouble..´
No Foppe sneijder must think 100% attack and not defend, for my part. If the team is balanced sneijder can put all his energy in attack which is his forte, and what makes u dangerous, not defending, and somebody else should do the dirty work for him like moreiles for ronaldo.
This is wrong thinking of foppe to my mind.. and exactly what we and, cruyff , ardiaanse and jan mulder say all the time;.. we think too defensive, we must think offensively and not build in so much control but put the players in form on the field.
I dont want foppe when I see this, he wont do it anyway so I am not worried
Kudos to Jan and great that someone (Bob?) already sent this to KNVB. This reminds me of what Liverpool was considering 1-2 years ago before the new ownership was decided of selling the club to fans. I was ready to pony up couple thousand quids. To bring the analogy, at least KNVB should read some comments here because I do think collectively some of us made really good suggestions/comments.
Meanwhile, another period of waiting for the new (interim) coach!
First I have to admit the best team won. Spain was the best team in the EC although Croatia deserved 2 clear penalties against them and maybe just maybe Spain would have ended up like us…out from the group stage.
Spain has the best team right now. I have no doubt about that but I won’t remember them as one of the best teams in football history.
If you analyse the other teams there’s no team with a great generation of players.
Let’s compare generations and choose players:
Netherlands: Sneijder or Bergkamp? Bergkamp.
France: Ribery or Zidane? Zidane.
Italy: Young Pirlo or old Pirlo? young Pirlo. Chiellini or Nesta/Cannavaro? Nesta/Cannavaro.
Germany: Gomez or Klinsman? Klinsman.
Brazil: Neymar or Ronaldinho?. Pato/Hulk or Romario/Bebeto?.
And I am not comparing today’s generation to the best generation of players of each of those countries…Cruyff, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Guullit, Platini, Henry, Maldini, Baresi, Gerd Müller, Mathaus, etc….
Spain took advantage of the lack of great players in todays game and they really deserved the title but that’s all.
I will remember them as the best for the 2008-2012 period but I won’t remember them as one of the best teams in football history.
Holland’s 1998 team would’ve kicked Spain’s ass! Pique has nothing to do against the likes of F. de Boer and Stam, Bergkamp was sooo much better than Iniesta/Xavi, Kluivert was better than Villa/Torres, Davids was so much better that X. Alonso and so on…..
That’s just my personal opinion.
>I will remember them as the best for the 2008-2012
they were the best in 08 and 12 but they didn’t prove “bestness” in WK2010. Far from it, I think we played better in the final at least in the 90′.
Raijkaard after Saudi arabia game few hours ago , in which they were defeated by Libya 0-2 , was asked by a journalist if he will coach Oranje as cruyff suggested , but he refused to answer .
what do you think guys ??
he must be very high on the list … refuse to talk means he is talking with KNVB
well , that’s great news for me .
thats great news for all, if rijkaard and henk ten cate coach holland the way they did barcelona, i think we can be in for some great tactical moves that will surprise us all.
although, xavi who i don’t like at all, said rijkaard cared more about physique then talent, which might mean a bigger team,
rijkaard was the man who rebuilt barcelona (i hate barcelona)
remember what he did, he had some early struggles, but he phased out all the old guys who weren’t up to standard, and he put faith in youth players.
I can forsee a 4-3-3 future,
Robben, Huntelaar, Van Persie
Sneijder, Anita, Clasie
Pieters, De Vrij, Gouweleeuw, Van Rhijn
Stekelenburg or Krul
OMG, Saudi Arabia was beaten by Libya?
For me, there is only one person that can save holland and bring glory to holland , and that’s Hiddink.
Rijkaard would then only b my second choice
@Demi: TOTALLY AGREE!!! 🙂 “they were the best in 08 and 12 but they didn’t prove “bestness” in WK2010. Far from it, I think we played better in the final at least in the 90”.
Rankings out tomorrow!! Where will Holland Be?????
7. Holland ?
9. Holland ?
10. Holland ?
@MH, I was born and grew up in Vietnam.
@Demi: Guus is about money and his contract is probably too difficult to get out. His owner is Russian (and you do not want to mess with Russian these days, especially Mr.Putin).
About that final in 2010, I’m sure that the best 2 chances in the first 90 min were Robben’s, but only the final score that mattered.
At the same time, I think it looks like Frank Rijkaard has been contacted by KNVB. He is under contract but Saudi already failed to qualify for WC2014. I’m not sure what other work is there that his agent was talking about.
I do not care about FIFA’s ranking. All I want Oranje to avoid a group of death. Why? We may make it out the group but probably spend too much enery/effort in group matches and it is difficult to stay focused if they win the group. The reason that we went to Final in 2010 because we had an ok group. Spain seemed to have a bit of luck on their draw as well.
during regular time in WK2010, Spain was never dominant and never played their game. On the contrary the game was played more our way. All in all, and I am trying to be as objective as possible, I have never been convinced that Spain deserved the victory. If we didn’t, then it should have been a drawn at worst. I have watched the game more than 20 times and everytime I come to the same conclusion. We were the slightly better team that day.
you know demi i tend to agree with you more often than not and while i agree we had great opportunities to ‘steal’ the game, we were not the better side on the day. However,
a) we should have punished spain and won.
b) we played fair and square (everyone loves talking about Nigel’s kick but if you slow-mo air balls many players do the same thing).
c) at least we tried to win defensively rather than play beautiful and lose…. i disagree with many fans about this but our strategy nearly worked.
>you know demi i tend to agree with you more often than not
Guuuuuuuuuus, do you hear that? We all want you to be the Bondscoach again…
@Hien: Me too :D. Nice to meet you here.
Jan, an interesting blog and I was pleased that someone may actually have sent it to the KNVB. Why don’t you put it in letter form and send it to the KNVB as well. I think you are serious about the content, so why not let them know? As I have stated elsewhere, I do not think much of this organization, as they have not been impressive with the quality of their decisions these past several years.
Does anyone really care where the Dutch will now be ranked by FIFA? I hope it is 50 or even lower, to motivate those who drive this team, and the players themselves, to show how or if they are, indeed, able to learn from Euro, grow up a bit, and resume playing Dutch football. In any case, it will take some “new blood” to turn this program back around.
I have not respected many of the Dutch coaches. For me, those of excellence would include Michels, de Haan, Hiddink and Cruijff. All the others have had what I call fatal flaws. Gullit failed recently in the US, because the bottom line is that he is not a good coach. Most very good to great players do not make very good to great coaches. Cruijff, like everything else in his life, is an exception and was great as player and coach. I am interested in watching whether Bergkamp came be excellent as a coach. I think he can, as he appears to be a smart man. van Basten will never be an excellent coach. de Boer has promise, but needs seasoning. If I were the KNVB, I would let deHaan take the team for the next four years, while developing both younger and better coaching and playing talent.
I will Bob, I will 🙂
4 goals for Dost with Wolfsburg, nice start for him! maybe he can become a good player in bundesligga, nice for our new coach!
Ajax has finally raised the offer on narsingh, despite their tough talk last week.
really? i didn’t see wolfsburg games on the listing of livestreams, i’m guessing this was a friendly against who?
Dost scored 4 after coming on in the second half – Big teams usually play amateur teams pre season just to get ball rhythm. Wolfsburg won 16-0. That says it all. But he topscored and only played one half.
thats too funny, i can’t wait to see what wolfsburg does in germany, hopefully they can qualify for champions league, or at least europa league.
even less! 35 mins… good for his confidence. Dost has progressed so fast lately he can become a revelation if he goes on like this
Foppe interview today illustrated the ongoing dicussion in netherlands whether it was the defense or Robben and Affaley who failed so that we were overrun on midfield every game.
Bert did mess this up… with our control block of two, we had only two midfielders , one of them vbommel so we always were overrun. No wonder vBommel could not leg it. Sneijder had to run back and was far from the attackers all the time. We should have played 442 if we were so weak in the back. Now Bert wanted robben and affelay to defend in the back to help out vdWiel and Willems, so they were running 60 meters up and down. Insane. I do understand Robben shouting at bert a little better right now, cos he was running himself down all the time. I dont understand that foppe said robben and affelay failed here. Attackers should defend till the own half right? From there its for midfield. We should have played with Buttner and Urby and 4 midfielder, and from there break out, knowing our weak defense is covered.
Yet spain also defends up front, or rather play pressing up front so the opponent cant get out. But they do play from a solid defense, which can also move up when possible.
Spain tried to defend on italy half so they would be less challenged in the back. Foppe wants our attackers to help back so that we cant use them where we want them and run out of steam. Spain can press deep cos everybody worked with eachother and fabulous technique can keep the ball in the team on opponents half.
Holland is one of the few teams that has also the technique to play the ball around in the team, it+ s such a pity we could not use this and made our attackers useless.
I cant agree with foppe. We should have played like spain from a solid defense and strong midfield and pushed the opponent back to its own half.
Vd Gijp said it often enough: we didnt have quick and strong defenders that dare to defend deep with 30 m in their backs. But then you must play with different system.
I’ve decided to make a simple quick master list, of teams we should see at least once to see how our dutch youth prospects and national team players are doing.
note this doesn’t include any future transfers that would mean watching southampton or some other teams like werder bremen wanting elia.
Ajax-Vermeer, Anita, Blind, Van Rhijn, Siem De Jong, Dico Koppers, Jody Lukoki
PSV-Pieters, WIllems, Strootman, Wijnaldum, Depay, Lens
Feyenoord- Janmaat, De Vrij, Vlaar, Martins Indi, Clasie*, Fernandez,
AZ-Viergever, Maher, Beerens, marcellis
Heerenveen-Gouweleeuw, Narsingh, (might not be there)Rajiv van la parra,
Twente- Fer, Douglas, Luuk De Jong, (some might leave)
Utrecht- Mark Van Der Hoorn (19 years center back)
Vietesse_ Velthuizen, Van Ginkel,
Arsenal- Van Persie
Tottenham- Van der Vaart
Swansea City- Vorm
Everton- Heitinga, Drenthe
Man City- nigel de jong, karim rekik if it’s a game that doesn’t matter
Sporting lisbon, Schaars and van wolfswinkel
Benfica- Ola John
Sevilla cf- Maduro
Bayern Munich- Robben
Schalke 04- Huntelaar
Hamburg SV- Bruma
Borussia Monchengladbach- Roel Brouwers
VFL Wolfsburg- Bas Dost
Ac milan- Emanuelson
AS Roma- Stekelenburg
Internazionale- Sneijder, Castaignos
@Demi and Bitterballen: given Oranje’s form in 2010 I thought we could play our game instead of defense and counterattack. However we had 2 best chances that we should put the game away like you said.
If Frank Rijkaard is the coach, I think we would see Oranje playing 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. I still would like defenders joining attack and forwards/midfields come back to help out defend (closer to the midfield line, so they can attack quickly once have possession).
>instead of defense and counterattack.
our game was not really defense and counterattack. our game was mostly defined by two characteristics:
1. tight lines, something we had not at all at EK 2012. In WK2010, when we played with weaker teams the defense will come forward and when we played with Brazil/etc the forwards will come back to keep the lines tight. Lines were tight at all times.
2. Smothering. This is the best way to describe our game. We were never “Italy” to stay back – “crowd” the midfield, whatever you want to call it.
We were simply very very careful. No way, I wouldn’t call this defend and counter-attack. It was a very controlled , very tight formation. It was very German in discipline but never greek or italian in style.
BTW Spain’s game in WK2010 was never any prettier than ours. Especially in the final they were watching their back big time.
I have to say, that final was the closest, tightest game I have ever seen …
We were never “Italy” to stay back – “crowd” the midfield, whatever you want to call it.
Maybe not italy not cattenaccio but we played around the midline an awful lot if I remember correctly. And to stekel a lot, it made me upset.
And it was San Marco who build this system and vmarwijk jut took it and changed some players. And marco was influenced by Sacchi, influenced by italian thinking.
you are right about this but that’s how you play it safe. It is “title” football not total football. But hey look at Brazil, WK90 and WK94. They did exactly the same thing to break a 24 year dry spell. Lots of safe passes in the midfield and to the rear, if there was no clear passage. These are necessities if you want to win titles. Spain in WK2010 was not any better either. They played safe too.
I understand that this style does not please you and many others but if you look at the last 20 years of WK winners or runner-ups, Argentina WK90, Brazil WK94, France WK98, Italy WK06… were all super careful, tight defense teams. Only WK2002 was played more open and it was certainly a fun WK… but we were not there 🙁
look at this clip (nice clip BTW).
from 0:39 to 0:51 Mathijsen runs a 70 yard sprint from one box to another to cover the back. And so do they other defenders. They had pushed really high.
Also notice the hand signals from Joris and Gio. That is paying attention to everything.
i think that was a corner kick, i doubt mathijsen just had the urge to run forward and attack and take on defenders to score a goal.
I agree our defense was not up to par in Euro 2012. If we need to address that first and uforemost in the bonds coach and staff, then is Jaap Stam available to help.
OK – I’m going to go way into left field with this but I think it does merit some consideration (if not an immediate inclusion as an addendum to Jan’s wonderful letter.)
First: What Cruijff accomplished in Spain, with Barcelona was to recreate what he grew up with in Amsterdam between 1950 and 1970 – he literally grew up surrounded by the top players and the top coaches. He developed to his full (and amazing) potential in this environment. In Spain Cruijff had the opportunity create a system to pick talent, and to develop talent and then to focus on the best of these and build it all into a stable team-based system. Emphasis on “stable”.
Second: Bosman – Dutch players are now much more mobile and retaining the “stability” to create a true world class contender is now much more difficult. (When one considers the requirement to play together every day and to develop the required depth of understanding between players.) How do you keep top clubs together when talent is always being sold?
Third: Talent – Holland does not now, and probably never will have trouble developing talent. (It is in the genes IMHO – perhaps a little tougue-in-cheek here but – I digress…) So the good news is that most of the effort to develop talent always goes into attacking mid-fielders, and attacking players in general. This will always be true – but at the same time there is a considerable lack of development of defenders and in some ways less incentive to push yourself to become one – they make less money, and they are, mostly sold for less money, therefore there is less “real” demand (in the purely capitalist sense) for them.
Finally: A Potential Solution – Have the KNVB suggest to all Eredivisie teams or even better if it is possible to do so – have the KNVB actually mandate – that all Eredivisie defenders and central defenders be Dutch players – no imports at all in those two positions. By doing this the nucleus of a team can be more easily held together. The prestige of the position will rise along with the “demand” for defensive skills. Also this new demand for talented defenders will draw more to that position and the urgent need to play at a top-class level together and effectively will lead to top-eredivisie clubs pulling together (and properly paying…) the best possible groupings of dutch defenders.
Personally: I would worry much less about our attackers, they will always be more plentiful, they will be the first targets of offers by other leagues (and the first to leave) and once you have a proper core of attack minded dutch defenders you can blend in an attacking group from other leagues.
While you may say – how is this better? – my response is I would rather see a cohesive attacking back four supporting a slightly out-of-synch group of attackers plucked from different teams, than to see the opposite taking place. (Which is much what happened in this EURO)
And finally – if Dutch clubs can’t win in Europe with an “all-Dutch” back four – what can we expect will happen when Oranje starts any future tournaments?
For what its worth
i don’t think that is fair to have an all defenders be dutch players, that hurts the league, and it means a team will overpay for some lousy defenders. The way it works now is fine, the best defenders play. maybe on a youth level, to say, hey why did ajax at 16 have jan vertoghen and so forth at a defender, when that could have been better spend on a dutch centerback.
Just add on to the rule that a team has to play a player, or find another team for him until he’s 22. and make it that youth teams have majority dutch players. with 3 foreign players in youth academy at most.
I doubt all 17 dutch youth teams will have 3 out of 4 defenders being foreign
@Bob, i don’t have high hopes of Bergy becoming a great coach. In my mind, he’s too much of an introvert. But rather i’m looking forward to Seedorf if he ever has time to go into management after he retires. i think he’s got the goods to become a great manager
i think Joris Mathijsen, and Mark Van Bommel will become great coaches, Their positional awareness means they can read a game and field like no other. I mean these guys were slow, i mean really slow, and still managed to play great for so long.
beyond that i think great players make bad coaches, because great players know how to attack, how to beat guys one v one, but they don’t really read the game at a tactical level. SO the guys who do are great at reading a game will be the great coaches. in my eyes those guys are
Edwin Van Der Sar
Mark Van Bommel
and probably some unknown players who came and went in the eredivisie and we won’t see until later when they are winning the 2022 world cup in qatar for holland
Hey Jan – can we get back the little flag? It is always interesting to see where people are posting from.
I agree with your post OranjeFan. I think it might be hard to have majority of our national team from one club. But if we could at least get a back 4 from the same club. A devastating back 4 and maybe a midfielder from the same club the rest will fall in place.
For now Feyenoord seems to be the club capable of doing this. Vlaar is the captain but if he could “step-aside” for a moment we could see Janmaat – De Vrij – Martins Indi together. With Pieters coming back from injury and Willems having a good showing for such a young player I wonder what PSV will do. With the exception of v.Rhijn (Blind isn’t ready) Ajax don’t have any Dutch defenders coming up.
If we could have Ajax’ free flowing attacking philosophy, with Feyenoord’s grit and power, PSV’s creative players mixed with some of the flare from AZ, Twente, Heerenveen we could have a good squad.
I’ll check 🙂
Cruyff (‘s knowledge) is too valuable to have him tied down as coach for Oranje. It would be a total waste if he would leave because it didn’t work out (again). Let somebody else take on this thankless task and keep Cruyff around for as long as possible to let him advise on everything that has to do with the future of Dutch soccer. Mind you, it’ll still take quite a few people with similar vision at all the crucial positions to make it work, though.
It will take the rest of the world another 10 to 15 years to even come close to what Barcelona and Spain have going for them at this moment. Not that they will win everything but they for sure will continue to be very successful.
Viva la revolucion, oh no sorry, meant to say
Hup Holland Hup
I’m also for dropping Robben & v.Persie for a while to see what other combinations of a front 3 we can put together. Honestly I don’t need to see Robben cut in from the left and send a shot into the 25 euro seats of the stadium or a striker who leaves his shooting boots in London.
cut in from the right*
Sometimes, he must try to cut inside from the right side. But not the entire 90 minutes. Because, it depends on the situation. The coach should be able to read the situation.
Sometimes he must cross, sometimes he must get past his marker.
I cant wait for the new coach announcement, im am very interested on who and why the KNVB choose! Im for strengthening our defense – first and foremost, i dont want to discredit the recent Dutch defenders but their time is up! As has been said by others, we will always have great attackers its in our nature and thats the problem we only want to score we dont want to defend – its someone else’s job.
I know a young boy who will make a great holding midfielder, but he is only 11 and in Australia (but he is Dutch) his team is taught to play 433 in a high pressing manner, they play like the 1970’s Dutchies against the best opposition that is in the state of NSW, they are a pure delieght to watch! Their coaches are both English but are teaching the dutch system as Han Bereger is the technical director of football in Aus and all Rep teams have to play 433!
I wish they were 10 years older but we have to be patient!
The future is bright ! Hup
Yes, I am also waiting the news also. Usually, the media has also predicted something. What does the Dutch media say about this?
Rijkaard, Hidding, Van Gaal, Koeman and Co Adriaanese are all good candidates but I have my doubts about Güllit.
Koeman has had success with Ajax and Feyenord but Güllit hasn’t done anything as a coach!!!.
Cruyff will never coach again and if he ever wants to coach again he’ll do it for Barcelona because that’s all he really cares about.
I really don’t want Gullit to get it. I have seen him in tv shows recently and he acts as if it’s his God given right to be given a second chance??? For godsakes why???
He hasn’t demonstrated anything, other than winning an FA Cup with Chelsea. But as I said before about Bert: did Chelsea carry Gullit to that cup or the other way around?
I think he’s been unlucky. I think he did ok with Chelsea at the time. But his main mistake was choosing clubs. It seems to me, he made most of his decisions to appease his personal life and the people around him. Now, that he is divorced, AGAIN, he has found a new DRIVE. The main problem with him is not that he isn’t a savvy tactician but that he gets bored quickly ….especially when things dont go his way.
Regardless, it appears that whoever the coach is, he will inherit an old, often expired or (in transition) group of players. At this point, it should not be about teaching them how to kick a ball or even how to defend deep or high up. I will go even further by saying, that it should not even be about telling them how to respect and talk to each other: THESE MEN WILL BE IN THEIR 30S in 2 years time. They all have kids, they cannot act like children!
The job, should be about a laissez-faire charismatic gentleman who in his own way finesses his ideas around a group of ‘underachievers’. They understand him, and get to like his overall aloof style. The more relaxed they get, the less they care about timesheets, who plays, who got the most assists etc. The less it starts to look like a competition b/w the group, the more they will be motivated to compete with other teams. That’s where the money is. Don’t waste the little drive they have amongst them, build it up and point it towards the enemy.
Just my 2 canadian cents:)
@Demi: you are right, crowding the midfield, smothering the opponent, in a way that is what Spain is doing now. We have the skills to play 4-6 like Spain does but I’d rather not. I still like to have strikers/forwards. The game should be played with different roles.
@OranjeFan: I agreed with most of your points. Regarding the 4th point, KNVB or Eredivisie cannot do that. In this 21st century it will be labelled discrimination. The only hope for it is the club youth developments (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV,…).
Hien – you are probably right. I wish there was another way around the problem. But as I see it – if dutch clubs are too nervous to compete in europe all dutch defenders…we really have something we need to work on. How we solve it doesn’t really matter – but it needs attention.
As for the ideal of keeping an entire Dutch team together…well I don’t know if that can happen.
Jan, I don’t want to see Gullit as the coach either. JC will not coach unless you give him full control to do whatever he wants, and JC missed the boat with Oranje. He is old now that his health and his family does not allow him to coach anymore, only consulting, golfing, writing article…
Isn’t there another choice apart from the obvious ones mentioned. Why go to old names who have had the team many times before and have failed to delivered. There has to be someone that knows how to properly mould a winning team together….maybe he doesn’t have to have coached at a CL winning club, but a Prandelli like figure is exactly what’s needed.
there are plenty of people not mentioned
henk ten cate (somewhere in china)
Rene meulensteen (manchester united assistant)
Huub Stevens (schalke 04)
Pim Verbeek (former australian coach, Teams employ 2 holding mids, think van marwijk but lots of crosses)
Jan wouters (fc Utrecht)
Peter Huistra (former coach gronigen)
not sure about ten cate, good assistant though. Stevens is an interesting option. Verbeek is just too dull looking…could never get past the hair:P
thing with huub stevens is hes playing champions league it would be hard to lure him away, especially considering two years ago schalke made it to the semis,
but i like what he said about how huntelaar and van persie had to play, they wouldn’t make it out of the group stage because of that, and he was right
he made raul and hunter play, both scoring goals, imagine what he could with hunter and persie
Ten Cate has lost it a bit and is making too much money. His Ajax tenure was not a success. Too many old ties, not all good.
Meulensteen failed as a head coach in Denmark. He might be a super assistant though.
Stevens might work.
Pim Verbeek is not taken seriously in Holland. Too defensive.
Wouters doesn’t really want the publicity and the media attention.
Huistra was fired at Groningen? KNVB won’t ever pick him.
After Van Basten and his comments recently. the KNVB will NOT pick a young coach.
Huistra was recently appointed to De Graafschap, But i Hope he gets a chance in the future to coach better teams.
Yes,him and rijkaard were a great duo, but on his own he drowned. but i heard rumours ten cate was being considered.
Meulensteen might be sir alex ferguson’s replacement, i don’t know if he would leave. But what coaching did marco van basten have before being selected manager of Holland, a year and a half at Jong Ajax
Jan Wouters is old though, shame he is against publicity.
it would be a shame if pim verbeek manages. not only is he too defense, but his build up from the back is slow, and reliance on crosses is weird considering australia didn’t cross enough to score lots of goals. It might work against shorter asians, But against european teams and south americans. We would be in big trouble
The national team job doesn’t suit Van Gaal, because of his character and methods (sometimes controversial) he needs day-to-day interaction. His second spell at Barcelona failed because the fans became impatience, pressure from the press even made him drop a tear or two. I like his philosophy and discipline though, but its well suited for club management.
ajax in for narsingh, good news if it goes through
Oh more good news! Elhamdaoui is in florence for med check… he will be presented as new striker for fiorentina soon. The end of this soap! Ajax is finally doing business.
Narsingh should prefer Ajax over PSV. Ajax plays CL, and PSV don´t. Even, in Ajax he has to fight for the spot only against Sulejmani, because Narsingh is far better than Ozbilyz and the young Lukoki, or Ebecilio.
So… I don’t get it why he likes more PSV.
Is Eindhoven better city than Amsterdam to live?
Noooooooooooooooooo. Not by the farthest of margins. Amsterdam is way more FUN!!!!
although it really depends on your personality and what stage you are in life. But for a footy player, or any man in his 20’s Amsterdam for sure….
There are other differences. the mood with PSV is more laid back and not as hyped , also people with Ajax, are way more critical, not every player likes that. And narsingh was sent away by Ajax in his youth, considered not good enough. Narsingh is a quiet friendly guy, but underneath there is a lot of pride, and he must have felt rejected at the time… so I can understand if he tries to squeeze ajax a bit.
Well, I don´t understand Narsingh
I understand his manager. Ajax thought they had him. De Boer recently said in an interview it looks like he is in. Narsingh’s manager will have played this PSV card….
Ok… ty Dutch Dream
@Euduardo Maybe his manager wants more money lol…I am just guessing of course..
Some fans are in doubt, Narsingh is like suejmani, fast, but ajax plays most on the opponents half where they press in small space, so his speed would be useless, and he is not skilled in the 16.
I am a huge fan of narsingh motly cos he makes all other players better and never lose sight of his teammates, and decent cross. This could be his strongpoints for oranje too.
But on top of that I liked his goal against Bayern very much. Our modest narsingh was controlled and calm on his debut for oranje and I would love to see him for ajax, cos he is dutch, cos of his team spirit. ulejmani is just in the way of young talent and should be sent away somewhere far away.
I don´t like Sulejmani at all, but I don´t see young talents wingers coming out.
I really don´t like Ebecilio or Ozbilyz. I have some hope in Lukoki.
I am exiting to see Boerrigther and Narsingh on the wings, and Lukoki and Sulejmani on the bench. If Ajax sell Sulejmani will be great, but I don´t trust that Ebecilio or Ozbilz can replace him.
And Boerrigther is a good player, but I have never seen him doing a dribble. Always play so sure and never does any surprising. I prefer Elia or Ola John king of wingers.
This coaching crisis is becoming a major problem. I don’t know if KNVB had a contingency plan if things didn’t go well and they had to replace BVM.
We also have problems with finding reliable defenders. We have a lot of potential youngsters coming through the ranks but I don’t know if they’ll be able to take over right away. We still need the current core players for 2014. The team is truly at a crossroads.
There should be a public campaign in Holland to put pressure on Hiddink. I don’t know the terms of his contract with Anzhi. Maybe he’s not allowed to take on national team duties while in charge of Anzhi.
I don’t know the culture of the KNVB and how they run things. It seems like they are very concerned about making money and not losing revenue. I hope they just don’t pick a cheap coach just to achieve that goal. A good coach in today’s game will require a decent compensation package.
Anyways, I hope we make the right choices.
these days you got to make an investment to make money later. being cheap will sink you further. Like BvM didn’t have a contingency plan, neither did KNVB …
It’s a serious crisis and let’s hope it gets addressed properly. With the right coach we can be back on our feet sooner rather than later. But the right coach (Guus) is not cheap. This is a fact.
what has guus achieved? his psv was the only one club who won the european cup without winning any of the last 5 games. at oranje he didn’t respect davids,in 98 he lead the team to the semis,but with the squad he had he should have weon the title and not only the 4th place. the 2002 world cup doesn’t count,everybody knows why. under real circumstances south corea should have been eliminated at the gtroup stage (against portugal the ref redcarded two portugueses). it means quues didn’t achieve anything with south corea. his greatest success was with australia in 2006,but in the 1/16 they were eliminated by a last minute goal. guus should have done something against it. with russia they eliminated oranje in the quarters in 2008,but they were crushed by spain in the semis. they didn’t qualify for the world cup. he’s at anzhi and wouldn’t change his lucrative job for oranje. i fon’t say he’s a bad coach,but he’s definitely overhyped. and it seems he’s only interested in money. no guus,thx.
… and it’s official… RVP will not be extending his contract at arsenal! as a neutral supporter of EPL teams and a firm supporter of orange, i expected RVP to do the right thing and stick with his team.. that is the least he could and should have done!
most likely landing spots? manchester city? Juventus?
man city… even bayern might be a dark horse for his signature…
i can’t imagine van persie and robben, at that stage, robben needs to go somewhere else. I just suspected Manchester City because his agent also is the agent of clichy and nasri who left arsenal to manchester city, and juventus is the team who threw an official bid, seemed like a lowball offer, but now it’s lose him for nothing or lose him for 10 million, i’m sure juventus number has to go up
I have the impression that KNVB behave like the national team. There is not a real team, sometimes are “ego´s fights” (Cruyff doesn´t trained the NT in 94 instead Advoccat) and not always are thinking on the mayor interest: THE ORANGE.
So… how they want to demand good behavior to the players if they (mature persons) don’t want to put their egos aside in Orange interest?
It´s just an impression I have. I don´t know if it´s true.
I like Narsingh he’s the type of player we are missing, someone who can actually assist our central striker!!!.
Come on guys! having Rijkaard, Hiddink, Koeman, Adriannesse, Van Gaal, Stevens,etc… is not coaching crisis!!!.
It is when you don’t have one signed, haha.
france has no one signed, these things take time, rather them take their time, then hire someone like louis van gaal right away
Am i the only one who thinks Narsingh is no Oranje material ?
I prefer “in form” Elia , Ola John and Wijnaldum tbh .
also the feynord young guy ” Cabral ” can be better .
He is neither overmars , Robben or Zenden .
I hope he proves me wrong anyway .
your not the only one, i am still so angry that Bert van Marwijk took afellay as a winger instead of elia,
Elia had more flair and skills than kuyt, and he would Track back too. IN my eyes the left winger depth chart would have been
1. Eljero Elia
2. Dirk Kuyt
3. Derk Boereighter
Although Narsingh has a chance now to show greatness, if he does great for ajax, and proves in the champions league. Then alright, i will believe it, but for now, not enough.
Elia is such an incridble talent . IMO he’s better than many players who play for big teams ” pedro , de maria , silva ” .
Calccio is just not suitable for him .
Arsenal or any good Liga team ” valencia or Seveille ” can be great for him .
Bremen also will be a great move for him .
All those players you name play on different positions than narsingh. Elia and john are lefties but Narsing is right winger. We have robben there but he is no right winger, not even a winger, but should come from midfield from the left. Wijnaldum is more a 10, Cabral is not a right winger either. We have nothing for winger on the right but narsingh and should use robben from the left.
Like i said before narsingh is no star but makes others better, the centre forward (Dost) and hopefully with ajax or psv he can progress to oranje level.
robben Hunter Narsingh
never stopped affellay, who’s right footed to play on the left wing,
and ola john is also right footed and plays on the left wing,
Is it out of the realm of possibility to have a right wing depth chart of
1. Arjen Robben
2. Ola John
3. Ibrahim Afellay,
4. Luciano Narsingh
thanks onzie. yes affelay with right foot on left wing is also insane to my thinking. Bert turned everything up side down. If you have right footer on the left the play wil be predictable, cut inside and shoot. With robben we had the same problem when he is on the right. Robben to me should be on the left. Wondering how the new coach will think about this. I dream of robben from the left and narsingh or john on the right. Then you have 15 crosses on hunter per game.
John on the left is okay cos he can give a nice cross with his left foot too, I saw him play left wing for twente and he did that very well.
left foot left wing right foot right wing. that s what I think! 🙂
i don’t mind them switching a lot, lots of interchanging, like i like elia and robben, like in my mind, afellay if he plays good and a lot for barcelona he should definetely be in the midfield, and help make the transitions of switches easier by temporarily during the game go on the right wing, while letting robben cut inside, so now robben can pass to afellay for a cross or shoot it, but we’ll have to see who the next coach is
I always thought a dutch team needs to have lots of interchanging while maintaing the same 4-3-3 shape, but I don’t know who the next coach is and what they are gonna do. But currently it’s got to be Van Persie over huntelaar if elia, and robben cross a lot, and van persie’s position to lose. But they have statistics about how a centerforward should stay center, not drift out wide, they lose effectiveness. Thats why Huntelaar is a better player for holland. He stays center, so if there is a cross under pressure he will be there. WIth van persie he drops back, creating a bad version of the 4-6-0, where we have 6-4-0 in essence
the thing is sneijder is the best passer, and should be allowed to control the game, He can find a way to pass to wingers to give them the best chance to cross and score.
off topic, but look at the realism with which Frank DB demands discipline in the ajax youth squad…RESPECT.
yes…. ajax has accepted the offer of fiorentina dutch media report, well done ajax better be clever than proud and ajax gets 850K which we can use on narsingh
@onzie i agree with all your points.. robben switched agaisnt england, scored a great goal coming from the left , later from the right.
thanks, but on more important process of elimination news,
Bert Van Oostveen Said he wanted to finish the investigation into what went wrong before july 6th and make a decision before he went on vacation.
So either he pushed the vacation back, or we should expect a decision by friday, if we don’t get one, then it’s time to worry.
I suspect a interim head coach. till 2013
I don’t think we should worry if we don’t get a quick decision. We should worry if we get a not well thought one.
Let them take their time and make sure they examine all the issues and exhaust all possibilities to get the right person. Even if takes another 2-3 weeks, it is not that big of a problem now.
We know they are talking with Rijkard. Hopefully they will talk with Guus too/again.
I don’t think they’ll present a new coach this week. THe July 6 decision was the Bert evaluation. Well, that has sort of ended now.
I think it will be Rijkaard or Gullit. Maybe together?
Please no Gullit.
as long as the coach is respected by the players. I’m all for it.
But guillit lost a lot, and would he be respected?
Hiddink, Rijkaard, are respected figures.
Forget about Hiddink for now. He’s under contract and he never leaves a job half way.
I’d love to see van Basten back!
yeah, i don’t expect hiddink, i’m just pointing out he’s a respected figure, i’m expecting someone we might not be thinking of now.
Btw, Van Persie will not sign a new contract for Arsenal
Ha. Who will buy the choker then?! Maybe he has found an empty seat on a bench next to Ibrahim and be together forever.
Are you asking who may be interested in the EPL top-scorer in a soon-to-be free agent status?
No need to hate these two players so much.
They both are great players, and will be.
ha ha balkan… great, that was funny 🙂 lol
What was the motivation behind Van Persie’s decision? Wasn’t he loved by Arsenal fans and didn’t he have a good run there? Where is he hoping to go next?
soon he will be 29 and would like to win trophies. he might stay at arsenal and next summer become free agent
obviously the motivation wasn’t only to win, but he must have plans to go to a team who is going to win, My guess juventus or manchester city,
He said he doesn’t longer agree with Arsenal strategy
Looks like it’s not only RvP does’t agree with future strategy:
I’ve been told, that a piece of Art has a value when it’s backed with wealth/value. Apparently, our Artist does have supporters.
Every article states that Red&White with 29.72% share “have no major influence at the club..”, well, this is as much uneducated statement as it can be. Can’t blame reporters for that though.
Viktor Fischer did his debut in Ajax… he is one of the big youngs talent to come?
Nope. He is a Dane.
The Ajax coach amended his selection in eight areas after the break. The 1-0 deficit still needed to be erased, after all. This time, wing defenders Mitchell Dijks and Sven Nieuwpoort, plus midfielder Viktor Fischer, made their official debut in Ajax’s first team
Eduardo Fischer is the greatest talent in ajax right now, but danish. He is expëcted to make debut for ajax 1 .this season
I thought it was victor Fischer?
That’s a joke btw cause you were talking to Eduardo. Lol
I thought it was Bobby…
The only good combination will be Rijkaard = the coach and Gullit = Public Relation. Let the boundary be clear or else you get into troubles. You cannot have 2 head coaches and one of them is Gullit. Let Gullit handles the press talking for hours and hours but do not let him know about the team’s strategy. I am sure the press conference will be entertaining.
If this would become true, then finally after all these years the older Oranje fans can don their Gullit look-alike wigs again. And for all the new fans the KNVB could make a buck or two by selling new ones. From a commercial perspective a Rijkaard-Gullit combination could turn out quite profitable. Done deal methinks.
i had a game of fifa 12 with my friend who always beats me (mostly because of how poor our defense is in the game).
so i did what was suggested by someone here and moved de jong and van bommel a line back and it worked wonders!
My vote for coach would be:
Hiddink, if not, then Rijkaard or Gullit, maybe as coach, PR/assistant
Lineup for the Belgium warmup/friendly match:
Have Van Der Vaart, Strootman, Fer, Clasie, Wijnaldum as alternative options. Good bye to Kuyt, MVB, Heitinga, Mathijsen, Boula, Bouma, thank you for your support
and Robben as well as an option as well
Scratch willems for the next 6-9 months, put pieters lb and someone like donk or something at cb, rb can be bruma in absence of better ones
douglas won’t play till after august 24th,
i wouldn’t mind vorm as the Keeper over stekelenburg,
But central Defenders gotta be Maduro, Vlaar (i would like brouwers)
Fullbacks, Pieters, Van Rhijn or Van der Wiel
MIdfield can work just the way you have it, giving robben a break, but i think for a substitution, huntelaar should come off, and slide van persie in center, and put in maher, or afellay, Maybe wijnaldum
or straight trade of huntelaar off for luuk de jong, Van wolfswinke, Bas dost..
ANd de jong should come out for clasie, time to get that guy experience, or strootman
so many options, but the substitutions are important, to figure out who is gonna be the 1st and 2nd string players.
I wouldn’t drop Kuyt out of the squad that early . i think he still has it .
he won’t be a starter in the WC , but his spirit , experience and Ethics is needed in the team in my humble opinion .
same with heitinga . i’ll give him another chance .
agree with you on the rest of this list , may add vdv to them .
i would keep kuyt as my second winger if elia goes down, but, heitinga
i can’t give heitinga another chance, what if he goes back and gives away vital information?
it’s easier to forgive van der vaart for his alledged actions, than it would be for heitinga’s, It was pretty big.
what vital information? the squad before the game?? everyone knows BvM squad before the game .. It is the same as in the last game 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
not before the game vs portugal, I remember they leaked the formation,
and heitinga was included, then before the game, heitinga was gone, and the formation stayed the same.
but yes, BVM needed new tactics, it was too predictable
Agree: The idea is not to have a great player at every position–not possible. The idea is to build a great team–see Spain–and guys like Kuyt who work hard for team are invaluable. I don’t know what his role should be in WC, but it was a mistake not to play him in this Euro–one of the personnel mistakes BVM made. I am still a believer in RVP–but he is a guy who needs wingers working for him, as they did at Arsenal. The RVP/Hunter situation is one of many personnel issues that must be resolved within the next 12 months.
Soon, an interview with ex-skipper Mark van Bommel
awesome… Mark is an awesome player. I would love to hear what he has to say.
JAN, I want your opinion on John Van Der Brom, I think he would make a great coach, albeit in the future. He’s done terribly well with all the outfits he’s coached. I think the Eredivisie lost one of the greatest coaching prospects the moment he went to anderlecht. Such a pity in my opinion.
I like the thought of Meulensteen being involved, his experience at the top and his winning mentality would be a big asset.
Saw this on Espn soccernet that Fulham are chasing Holland Under-19 prodigy Chris David from FC Twente…
anyone know much about him?
Ups… still there is no breaking news about the new head coach.:-)
i know that feel, it’s not even a problem that they didn’t hire anyone, the only problem is the knvb hasn’t said much, let us at least know they are interviewing people, give us something positive, instead of one template and leave us guessing, and waiting,
anyone gonna see the twente europa league game, at 13:30 New york Easter time,
frank Rijkaard most probably will be leaving KSA after the latest bad result in arabian cup….Reports are mentioning he is leaving soon.
Most prbably he will be the Oranje Manager
I like those news.
I read on ad.nl about the KNVB not losing hope on Hiddink, it seems like the KNVB board will have a meeting with him 🙂
It must be tiring when I repeate this all the time but I hope both KNVB and Guus will do the right thing. This is not the time for experiments, come on folks on both sides.
Aren’t you all tired of waiting to win a World Cup? Let’s use all the right resources, max the potential and f GO FOR IT!
what day is this meeting?
Are they gonna come up with some interim coach like Chelsea did, for the qualification rounds and let Hiddink to rule through the WC?
Anyway, bringing Hiddink in would be huge for Oranje (even after what he did to it with Russians:). He’s the coach that loves to work with young players, discover talents and build the team for the long run.
I want too much for a realist.
Well said Gerrie!
FIFA APPROVED GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY!!
Will be used at WC2014 and can be used by any football association.
Premier league says will put in place sometime 2012-2013 season!
Paul, agree, I like the idea of goal line technology as it makes the game fair, but why did FIFA wants to try headscarf? “The IFAB agreed to unanimously approve – temporarily during a trial period – the wearing of headscarves.” Next will be necklace, bracelet,…? It should be about football, not money, marketing, jewellry, fashion (except the jersey or shoes or socks or shin pad)…Headscarf…
I think that was meant for muslim women to respect their religion rules.
but i would love to see robben with headscarf, and maybe also Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, ballotelli Pepe maybe even a whole team
miguel rosado, habla! tell us more about that meeting with guus!
If you want the latest version its called Spain 2008-2012 or Barcelona 2008-2012 hehehe´
It was like what Spain did in the Euro 2012 final. Perfect example of total football. Can Holland do it again? Everybody is moving looking for space and ready to receive a pass from team mates.
Goal line technology is still primitive when compared to simple Video Technology as used in Rugby. Strange how Football (origins UK) is so far behind Rugby & Cricket (Origins UK) in video technology? Goal Line technology with a chip in the ball (more costs) is primitive when looking at the whole spectrum of video technology, because after goal lines are solved EVERYONE will complain about OFF SIDE goals which have always been contreversial. Video Technology with a Video Referee (the 5th official referee) decides. It’s all so easy if the English FA just watch a Rugby game. No time wasting with players arguing with the ref – It’s so simple, if only they agree to “follow” what Rugby (cricket/tennis) does – but I guess there in lies the problem. Football does NOT want to be seen as “followers”
Video replay is what is needed – and it needs to happen soon. There is no other way to combat match fixing in an
Hup Eredivisie Hup !!! Can’t wait for the new season to begin…we’ve a lot of building to do!
Boom!! – the first shot in building a better Ajax – a TEAM that will stay together and build the skill required to excel – the first shot has just been fired!!
Keep it up Johan! – don’t know if you’ll prevail – but the fight is worth fighting…I don’t want “sore eyes” anymore either. If Spain can do it – so can we!
India is going football crazy.
Where is the KNVB? A billion people need to learn about voetbal!
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Dear Arjen,i am sorry for some fake Oranje fans’ hurt to you.i’m a chinese fan of you,a girl.i know they’are ugly,but as you believe,we true fans love you the most.they like money,but we love you.i regret for i can’t go to watch your games.it’s my dream.chinese fans love you the very most.but many Oranje fans don’t like you and even hate you.sorry for our hurt to you.they like criticise your mistake in 2010 WC.but we still love you.please don’t feel regret to us fans.you are the best in our eyes.
i believe and hope you bring Oranje to the top of the world in 2014.no matter what the result will be,we will still love you.
so don’t metion those people who hurt you.they are not your and even not Oranje fans.
good luck to you.
love you the most,
We i guess what we’ve established from these two friendlies is that we can’t win with Robin van Persie.