After being in the doldrums for years, the Dutch are back at the top. We beat World Champions France, 2014 Champs Germany, we took on semi finalist England… And now we’re about to take the scalp of European Title holder Portugal. Again.
Our lads are on a roll! Led by experienced Ronald Koeman – the timing for him to be our NT manager is now, is just perfect – and further inspired by Ajax’ and Liverpool’s successes, this team marches on!
What a game we saw them play again! I think you’ll have to watch it again to realise what a massive match it was.
Sure, England didn’t play their best team against us, due to the CL finals. But this is still a top notch squad we were up against and yet again, England played second fiddle to our boys.
And we ruled. We controlled the match and we set the tone. And ended up winning 3-1, although it could have easily been 6-2 for Holland. Memphis could have had a hattrick (like C Ronaldo in the Portugal semis vs Swizerland) but the Lyon forward was “unlucky”.
Strong Daley Blind: never in trouble
Interesting to see too, how some people keep on believing Daley Blind is the weak spot in the team. Not only did he play 66 matches this season, most of them really good too, he was one of the top performers for Ajax and played another strong game vs England.
Our weakest spot in the team is still the right back role. Janmaat seems to be struggeling with fitness, Tete was injured and Rick Karsdorp need to make a move away from AS Roma (apparently Peter Bosz’ Bayern Leverkusen is in the market) and play more matches. Today, Hateboer and Dumfries are the choices we have and both are vulnerable in defence. I think Hateboer is a perfect wingback, while Dumfries has wonderful moments and woeful ones…
A world class striker
Somehow, the English commentators started to put a thought in the Dutch minds. They said Holland had the midfield and the defence to win the World Cup, but needs top forwards to actually do so. (They also said the exact opposite of the English team, by the way).
I don’t buy into it. I am fully on board with what Koeman is doing. Memphis has demonstrated to be able to score. Over and over again. He’s one of our current top scorers, he creates and scores for Lyon and will never unlearn this. Babel, Bergwijn and Promes are also players who usually are prolific and Weghorst and L. de Jong are perfect pinch hitters.
And don’t forget, Memphis is Oranje’s Most Valuabe Player under Koeman by a country mile! With 8 goals and 7 assists (15 in total) he is number 1, with Mathijs de Ligt (2 goals, 2 assists) and Virgil van Dijk (4 goals) as number 2s.
And yes, wouldn’t it be awesome to have a new Van Nistelrooy or Van Basten sometimes soon? Of course. But we will be able to win trophies with the current forwards, as this team is currently demonstrating! We also have Danjuma and Dilrosen still, Sam Lammers is coming along as is Donyel Malen, FC Utrecht and AZ have some young strikers in their midst, and don’t forget Redan at Chelsea.
Against England, our forwards were not as sharp. It happens. Bergwijn had two massive opportunities he scoffed. Memphis could have had 3 goals. Babel was not in great shape, but we all know he can score and head a ball too.
Don’t be surprised to see Promes start for Oranje instead of Babel vs Portugal. The three mercurial forwards Bergwijn, Promes and Depay need some time together and they will tear opponents apart. For me, Donny van de Beek would be the perfect offensive midfielder to join in and play his Jack-in-the-Box role, with Frenkie and Gini as controlling mids. Davy Propper being the perfect stand-in for either.
Speaking of Propper, you know I am a fan. He demonstrated in the short spell he played that he can do what Frenkie does, too. He has always been a more humble guy and maybe was told in the youth system to not take risks, but the way Frenkie de Jong plays is an inspiration to the others. I saw Propper turn away and move forward on the first pass he received and Marten de Roon also found some confidence in his build up play, seemingly comfortable being played in with two opponents close by.
It is no surprise Ajax will be making a play for the midfielder, to replace Frenkie de Jong in midfield.
I really think we have more than one player in midfield who can make a difference and I’m excited with players like Cokcu, Gakpo, Ihatarren, Stengs and Carel Eiting coming through too.
The English Lessions
1 – Details
“I was already looking over the ball to see where I wanted to pass it. That was not smart.” The 19 year old Ajax skipper made two mistakes. The first is a mistake a player can make, and will make. Whether he’s 19 or 29. It happens to every defender every now and then. Play 40+ matches in a season and you make 3 or 4 mistakes. The second mistake was De Ligt gliding in, where he could have tried to stay on his feet and block the shot from an acute angle, knowing the goalie was there still too. But De Ligt took it on the chin and ended up playing a superb match, with a stunning header goal to boot. It’s the big lesson: make one mistake and the opponent will hurt you. One wrong pass. One wrong touch. It can be the difference between winning or losing. De Ligt is learning and he’s learning fast!
2 – Effectiveness
“We were better most of the game, but sloppy with the final ball. We went to quickly to the flanks which played into their hands really. And we had a number of opportunities which should have been converted into 100% chances. We were too sloppy.” This is Koeman’s analysis of the game. Yes, Holland was better. But we simply didn’t create real chances in the first hour. Bergwijn had a big one. He created it himself and he ended up destroying it. Memphis had a good one after a break, with Wijnaldum playing him in. Memphis fluffed his lines. And also in the second half, in the last minutes, he couldn’t sort his feet out properly on a break with Promes… He did get a good diving header in and was simply unlucky with that one. With Babel, Bergwijn and Memphis, Koeman gambles on their speed, trickery and creativity. Bergwijn played a good game, but Memphis and Babel didn’t reach their usual level. Weird, as Memphis assisted all three goals basically, but he also had many howlers, bad touches and bad decisions. And should have scored three times, in my view. Our attacking play needs more effectiveness, as we won’t get 9 opportunities to score against other big nations (Portugal, anyone??).
3 – The strength of the squad
We can leave Wout Weghorst at home. Bas Dost decided to call it a day himself. As Ajax demonstrated this season, it is possible to keep 16 players happy as you can use them all in a campaign to something special. Davy Propper, Quincy Promes, Donny van de Beek… all three added flair to the game when they came on, with Promes basically scoring twice! With the likes of Jeroen Zoet, Kenneth Vermeer, De Vrij, Ake, Vilhena and Luuk de Jong, we have more players who can come onto the pitch and make a difference.
4 – Setpieces
With 17 minutes to go, the Dutch supporters cheered as if we scored: we simply got a corner kick. But with Memphis or Propper on corner taking duties and De Ligt and Van Dijk in the box, you know you have a real chance. De Ligt: “I train these situations every second day. I work on my jumps, on my timing… And if the corner is perfect, as it was, and the block works, as it did, it becomes easier for me to finish the ball off.” Holland has a plan for set pieces and it paid off.
5 – Physical strength
For decades, we had to hear that Dutch footballers are physically speaking less than the Germans, Italians, French and English players… Not anymore. Daley Blind played 66 games this season. Against England, he was capable of playing full throttle for 120 minutes and also delivered the pass of the match, with his outside left. And he’s not alone: Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, De Ligt, Frenkie de Jong, Memphis Depay, Denzel Dumfries…all powerhouses of guys. Holland was physically better than England. Quite a new statement to make.
6 – Hungry for trophies
“When you win, you won’t feel the fatigue” is a oft used saying by coaches. Even after conceding an unfortunate goal, Holland kept believing and diligently continued hunting for that equaliser. Never in haste, never erratic. The team excudes enthusiasm and joy to play, and demonstrated resilience and hunger. There is unity for all to see and Koeman created a foundation for the individuals to shine and excel. This spot in the finals might be a first in a series of many…
Excellent article. Yes, this team is hungry for titles. It won’t be an easy game. Not against Ronaldo who will be super motivated to not just win the cup at home but also most importantly, not to lose at home.
The key for me is finishing scoring chances. I don’t expect Portugal to self-destruct like England did, so the margin for winning will be very slim.
We do have a great generation of players in the making. The new talent that is coming up through the ranks also makes this team one of the most promising. We could have a golden generation by 2026. But at the end of the day, it’s all about winning. This Nation’s League tournament is the perfect rehearsal for the Euro 2020 and WC 2022. It will give the players excellent experience and a taste of what it takes to succeed. I hope they take it seriously and perform likewise.
Some great points well made Jan. particularly about Blind who I myself used to be critical of in the sense he has great technical ability, but I never felt he was a master of any particular position.
This season, he certainly proved me wrong.
However where I do disagree is the front three.
Memphis of course would be in my team any day of the week. But, I still believe, that give us more offence options/potentially improve our other offensive options, Koeman should do more to experiment in the centre forward position and Memphis slotting in on the left, but more advanced. I feel Memphis has the ability to be just as influential.
I’ve seen so many teams, Napoli for example in recent years playing fluid forwards, and all season up that final moment they are great… until that big moment when they need to find a way to score ugly, and that natural centre forward proves to be the missing piece. Whilst we were the better team, let it not detract from the fact, England gave us some big favours.
Babel for me, yes he’s has a resurgence, but he’s no world beater, and I see this as a position to improve.
The right side toward position is still up for grabs surely….
Promes has proved himself a great tool off the bench, but my instinct tells me that long term Stengs or Danjuma might be the better starts.
Luuk de Jong… despite all his eredivise goals, to me he strikes of that Dion Dublin type striker…. will never cut it on the continental / world stage.
Anyone have a good link so I can re-watch the game?
Jan, agreed with you on weakness at our right back. Dumfries lacks the final cross and flair that we see in Blind. From the limited clips on Ki-Jana Hoever, he seems a real deal. He is similar to Trent Alexander Arnold I feel.
What do u think? Can he be fast tracked into senior team.
Tete is the only balanced midfielder NT has got on the right.dumfries is offensively better and also has good crosses. What alot of people dont realize his defensive workload was more in this particular games because of sancho and chilwell who were both super fast.on the other hand blinds flank was quiet and which allowed him to move upfront. I have watched blind in CL from the the round of 16 till the semi final, blind has been in his comfort zone all through out. Meaning his flank hasnt been raid yet. Lucky for him sancho was not on his flank another wise he would have been in the same boat as dumfries. His weaknesses still exist and on a day when he will come up against explosive wingers,particularly those who operate outside on the right like willian or pedro, the story will be same. Just to be clear here what I mean about explosive wingers. One can argue here, sterling is a explosive winger but like many other wingers , he is more effective cutting from the left flank very similar to depay. This was further evident when lingard came on for sancho and sterling switched to the left.this change did swang the game in englands favour.if you look at lingards disallowed goal, Blind was caught out big time.
The portguese played 4-3-1-2 vs swiss which shows they are trying to improve tatically as well.this time around they will put in a shift in the midfield with neves who is a long range specialist. The right flank again should be centre of focus with Ronaldo and dumfries confronting each other.
“”””Tete is the only balanced midfielder NT has got on the right””””””””””What the F%^^k is that?and next time Cillessen as a striker??
I meant right back.
In an interesting twist Liverpool have now offered Bobby adekanye a new offer.
PSG are favorites now to sign de ligt.
That’s bad news. I hate PSG and I don’t think it will be the right environment for deLigt. a bunch of spoiled prima donnas that are always assured to win domestic titles and fail miserably in europe. France would be the last place for any of our players to go let alone a 19 yr old. Plus it would be beneficial for the NT to have deJing and deLigt play together. But I guess it is all about $$$.
de Jong.
Thanks Jan! Excited for the final. As you and others have articulated most of my overall thoughts, just a couple of tidbits that stood out to me.
1. Memphis and Promes seem to have a deep bond. Their celebrations and embraces after the goals felt like two guys coming together who have both been through adversity, learned life lessons, and come through stronger and more grounded. I think there’s a powerful partnership there that Koeman should ride.
2. Frankie’s back tackles give me the chills. His ability to sprint full bore 40 yards and execute a perfectly timed slide tackle reminds me of Edgar David’s.
3. Under Klopp, Wijnaldum has developed a self-assuredness in his game that paired with unbelievable fitness allows him to rule box-to-box for 120mins, moving with clarity and decisiveness to form triangles all over the field.
4. De Ligt’s explosive physicality in both his own and his opponent’s box is electrifying. I can’t imagine what it’s like to guard him on a corner. He reminds me of LeBron James driving down the lane for an explosive dunk. When he fully commits, he is unstoppable.
This game was like an exuberant cross between ballet and capoeira. As a coach, I’ve been preaching triangles, physicality, and pressure to my 10 y/o and his teammates all season. With the exception of de Ligt’s hiccup (which will happen, as Jan correctly noted, and I’ll happily live with in return for creative, ambitious football) and some profligate finishing (which will happen at the end of a long season), this game was a thrill to watch. This oranje plus ajax’s romp through the champions league has me electric with excitement. This generation is striking fear in the hearts of opponents already. And they’re only going to get better.
Frenkie, not “Frankie” lol
@Jan agree On Blind..He was excellent..Still dont know how keeps it up..Babel and promes where there to help him..So was frenkie Dejong..Blind was a cut above Dumfries…though i would say that Dumfries had an excellent tackle in box to sav our A@@#S..He was pretty solid defensivly..its not easy to play against Rashford,Sancho and sterling..i would say its little more easy to play against kane..
We have some RBs they jaw dropping fullbacks those are RICK KARSDORP AND KE JAN HOOVER..Not Tete or Janmaat.or.Hatboer All these three can be back up.
its Karsdorp Vs Dumfires Vs Ke jana…i think koeman should not waste time behind Tete,Janmaat and hatboer…He shoud dircely go for karsdorp and Jana hoover..ITS VERY SIMPLE AS TAT.
at ANYDAY fast moving short berjwin and Depay are better strikers than slow moving less skilled static tall fart strikers…
if any one has doubt ask David Villa of Spain how he got the GOALS WHEN IT really mattered.
The moment Depay took over from Dost central spot we were complete different team..Belive me Both Deligt and Virgil are better strikers than many strikers..i would prefer to land Devrij at final 10 minute at back and will play Virgil as striker in final 10 minutes..I am sure Virgil will get the Job done..
I heard Memphis uses new shoes for every game is it true???if that the case there would not be any expected accuracy in hi game while receiving the pass or giving pass or shooting..He should learn from Roben..How Precise our Roben and RVP was,Vaart too.
shoes has say in accuracy of passess and shots.
In modern football, every player gets new boots per game. The boots today are really slim, and almost like thick socks.
Great comments, Jan. They filled in some gaps for me.
My question: After the tying goal, When VDB the MF was De Jong, Van De Beek, and Wijnaldum, it seemed to me that England began to get control of the MF, and made a real push forward. Propper came in, Wijnaldum slid to the wing, (not saying Wijnaldum is the weak link there; his defensive play when he is slotted just behind the forwards is superb), and England didn’t seem nearly so dangerous. Do you think this was just unique circumstances of that game: England’s natural push back responding to the goal; and Oranje having gotten too used to England sitting back for about 40 minutes; late in the match and players tired, with the field getting stretched, especially with both teams going for goals? Is there some concern that a MF of Wijnaldum, De Jong, Van De Beek being a little too light defensively?
I guess 20 minutes at that stage is way too small a sample, but wondering about your thoughts of that combo come up against more robust mf’s (Germany, France, Belgium, Spain).
I re-watched the game. One thing that Koeman has achieved is a compact way of play. Oranje defended as a team and only Babel was a bit reluctant to return back after losing the ball.
I think with this team, we should be OK against Portugal as long as we do not concede space. If we keep playing tight and defend with all 11 players, CR will not have enough space. If midfield and forwards will rely on four defenders and Cillissen, we will be done.
The reason why I talk only about defensive play is that our offense is quite average. I believe Koeman understands that too and insists on compact way of play with sharp counter attacks. Against England we had good counter attacks which were never leveraged by our forwards. You all saw that the last two goals were scored from very bad defensive play of England.
If we keep playing compact and forwards will be more precise we will win well. If we play compact but forwards again lack a precision we will still win but it is going to be very tough probably going to extra time. If it goes to penalty shoot out we will still win as this Dutch team in contrast to previous years have shown high level of resilience. Bottomline, I am very optimistic that Oranje will win this trophy.
No worries if we do not as our goal is Qatar 2022!
I dont think so AZ forever. Not evergame will the same and also considering that koeman has been lucky, there hasnt been any in juries in the critical department such as to frenkie, Van dijk and depay. We still dont know whats koemans plan b is and how effective it is.certainly this was not the best england team team compared to the dutch who are building the team around the best 11 players. It will be interesting to see on a day when the Dutch will have key players missing through injuries.
Koeman is riding on a high because his best starting 11 has been available to him at most occasion .whats in forcast when it will not be avalible is another story. Van gaal tried to do the same thing before the 2014 world cup before strootman injury disrupted the whole balance of the team.
The physical battle in the midfield was more as to why the game was so compact. Delph and Rice were really physical when going into contact. I think the strategy here was to contain frenkie and keep pushing the dutch back.
You look at the germans when NT thrashed them 3-0. They recuperated back, and turned things around with some key players coming back from injury. Especially in the last outing when they won 3-2.being said this It all about the squad that is avaliabe on the day.
You look at dumfries.till the game vs england no body doubted about his defensive qualities.it was rolling smooth but that changed with both sancho and chilwell raiding his flanks. This is why I said blinds day will come as well and his weakness to will be exposed. He will not be in his comfort zone in every game.
Let’s be honest, we played badly against England.
We had a bad game but had the luck to win. England could have scored and won wasn’t it the VAR.
We urgently need real talented attackers. I am starting to lose faith in Bergwijn , he is not the one that we need. Babel also.
We need someone like Leroy Sane of Germany, someone who can tear the opponent rock defense apart.
I am not sure Danjuma is that person. Or Stengs, kluiver , Dilrosun..?
At the moment, only Quincy Promes can fit that role, especially when the opponent are tired. But he’s not the ideal one.
I really hope we can win tonight. the last time I saw Holland got a cup was 1988. If we play how we played against France and Germany (1st match), we can do it.
well, guys, we play with what we have and I do not think we played badly against England. We might not have enough depth as France have it but see what happened to them against Turkey (0:2)? Does Portugal have any depth, I do not think so. IF CR is out, entire team will sink. But they are still in final! Oranje need to play disciplined football and if they do, then success will come. We do not need superstars to win tournament, we need THE TEAM. I believe Koeman is building a that team. and I personally do not care about tomorrow/today final as these are all intermediate steps towards Qatar-2022.
Didnt portgual win the euros without Ronaldo?
There is no doubt koeman has taken the team to another level but that doesnt change the fact other big teams have advantage of injecting more players playing in their domestic competitive league compared to the dutch who have to rely on certain group of players playing at top level. You again come back to square 1 while others are rotating players in multiple positions, the dutch are stagnant with a one set of starting 11. Come injuries, they will find it going tough . I will again take italy as an example here.in the last few games they have had kean,Quagliarella,Belotti,Pavoletti, immobile rotated up front compared the dutch where depay has in the fore front.if he has to get injured the dutch will be worse than portgual without ronaldo.
As for france, Deschamps got it all wrong. Progba and matudi needs to be benched and are both overrated. Lyon contingent are in better form than them and dropping lacazette was outrages.
Yes, by all means, Portugal is also not THAT strong…. .we have a chance to win, if we PLaY WELL, or play better than we were against England.
Portugal has 4 players who are playing Wolves… and anyone who watched the premier league knows how strong this Wolves is (they beat all the big 6)
what I don’t understand is how come C Ronaldo is still so fit. he’s 34 right? why can’t our Robbe, Van persie or Sneijder be the same……..??
He is fitness regime is on another level
It’s been far too long since we’ve played for a cup.
Give ’em hell, boys. Hup Holland Hup!
Guys, if you live in US, you can watch game on ESPN
good luck to Oranje
First 12 minutes, Portugal is a better side.
Memphis with some beautiful dribbling but then loses the ball in the box with no shot…
We are getting worked a bit in the midfield.
Bernardo Silva very influential at this point.
Not happy with the selection of Babel again. Would have preferred Promes. Would also like van de Beek instead of de Roon to help with Silva.
Maybe they will come on as substitutes like in the semis.
Babel appeared to have been tackled there by two Portuguese defenders. No call.
The benefits of playing essentially at home…
We’re still playing cautious / tentative. Would like to see us attack a little more
I underestimated Portugal. Very very good team.
DUMFRIES! Had Babel wide open and then Wijnaldum and used neither until too late…
Dumfries…..
Ronaldo vs Dumfries 1v1 is not something I want to see very often. Nor Ronaldo vs Blind…
Such a fantastic defending from De Ligt and Virgil
Memphis’ first touch is still off. Once he gets the ball on his foot he’s done well, but just can’t seem to corral it…
I was wondering whether Koeman expected this course of the game. He said that we would control the game, but in reality Portugal has a full control of the game.
We just are lacking that attacking midfielder to make that final pass. I wonder if Frenkie could push forward in that role for Oranje?
corner…de Ligt
This is a very talented Portugal team just looking at their line-up.
And here the come down the field
Agree
half time. We are awfully good in defending! What a progress compared to two years ago. I am not sarcastic.
Midfield has been very static. Frenkie does not bring any creativity.
Babel should be replaced. No use at all.
Koeman so far as been a master of the second half. I am sure he will make sensible changes.
I wonder if Frenkie could play as a #10? Wijnaldum does a lot of things well, and you hate to remove him because he gives so much energy, but without a midfield creator, we are only going to be able to score on corners and counters in this match. Maybe bring Ake in for de Roon and push Frenkie up? Or maybe Propper could help? Memphis can drop back to play that role, but then we’d need a different type of forward (other than Babel and Bergwijn…
Right now there’s a real hole in the team right behind the front line…
Yes, bring in Ake so Frenkie can push up. Right now, Frenkie is doing a lot of defensive cover duties. Babel and Bergwijn haven’t done much so far. I would also like to see Van de Beek for some creativity to disrupt the Portuguese defense
I would really hate to see Holland lose a final again
Fact is we don’t have any atracksfs that can tear apart the opponent
Bergwijn is not oranje fututrr and Dumfries I’m not sure if he is our number one right back Choice
How many attempt did Portugal had ? Ours ?
Depay if you want to move to a bigger club , prove it and prove Man Utd were wrong
I think Memphis needs to move to the flank as Dumfries is very inefficient as an attacking right back. it is time for Donny to come and switch to 4-4-2 system 4-3-3 does not work with Portugal.
Portugal has 12 attempts
And Holland has 1
What the hell is going on we are suppose to be an attacking nation !!!! What’s wrong with our attacking players ??!!
solid defending is better than useless attack.
@Yan It is not about losing this game, it is about learning how to win such a strong team as Portugal. We can lose this final but ahead of us there are much more important games, including EUro qualifiers.
We have players but just need a coach. To start with same 11 that did squat against England and keep de Beek and Ake on the bench is just insane to me. Babbel, Dumfries shouldn’t be there. At best they are bench material. Let’s hope for a better 2nd half.
I will be sad if we lose as I think it will send Balon d”or to Ronaldo instead of Virgil.
Bergwijn should have shot that!
The Spanish language announcer seems to love saying de Roon’s name. He should probably stay in solely for that reason 🙂
Wijnaldum inches offside. That was a real opportunity!
De Roon and Cillessen need to communicate there. No need for another corner.
oh De Ligt, what a boy
We’re playing very high in the back and concede another corner. Portugal is looking dangerous again!
Another Corner and Wijnaldum finally clears.
56 minutes in and some substitutions seem to be needed…
Bergwijn with the amazing chase down!
And then Dumfries plays the ball out of play…
Dumfrie is not very efficient in that role…I see some signs of Oranje playing more open and that is bad sign
very good substitution
Possession much better this half, but still very few decent scoring opportunities.
And Portugal scores…
THat is what I was afraid of. As soon as we opened up, we conceded.
Now we will open football and that is not a strongest side of this Oranje….
De Ligt got caught out up high on the goal and the rest of the backline was left to scramble to recover.
Van de Beek on for Bergwijn
Very few calls made by the referee in this match. Lots of advantage played, even when there hasn’t been much.
And Memphis’ header is saved! That would have been huge
Although Portugal overall is stronger than NT, I think we will equalize soon
Portuguese started their famous simulation. Is not it a bit too early?
You know we’re in trouble when Ronaldo starts to help defend.
Blind really stepping up. But Dumfries still not…
Please don’t cross the ball to Dumfries any more!
who could potentially replace Dumfries?
Promes apparently came on for Babel at halftime. Haven’t seen or heard from either of them in the second half.
Hans Hateboer? Not sure it will change anything
Every possession ends with Dumfries…
De Roon needs to bury that! Just missed on the replay
Portugal has 15 attempts on goal. We have 3!
We need a final attacking sub. This is where it would be nice to have a Robben or RVP for just a final veteran scoring presence…
When u see Luuk , you know it’s over
Luuk de Jong is coming
Luuk de Jong. Not quite Arjen Robben but let’s see what he can do.
Blind with the corner this time. I like that more than Memphis taking them. Lots of grabbing in the box
3 minutes to score
Disappointing!
We could never get our attack truly going!
Exactly! The offense today was useless. Didn’t create any decent scoring chances. And I hate it when these guys try to walk the ball into the goal. Can somebody please shoot? That’s how Portugal scored! They need to learn to take shots from distance because you can’t always break down defenses.
Anyways, very disappointing result. The difference is that Portugal didn’t collapse like England and gifted us a win.
This team will keep coming up short unless we get a decent forward line comes up in the next few years.
Hate portugal. we will never beat them. all our dreams broken by portugal in 17 years. since 2002 till now. every time they beat dutch.
The tournament where we beat Portugal will become our culmination.
At least this wasn’t another battle of Nuremberg. Portugal won but they cut out their antics and played a disciplined game. Their coach deserves a lot of credit.
its very true …19 years exactly from WCQ 2002 to till date..
We made some mistakes ,players seemed tired out of gas in first 45 min…we Complain that we didnt create anything threat..thats mainly due to the poor fist touch of Memphis and Berjwin..Babel couldnt connect with team he unavailable..To Creae something u need Frenkie and De beek up front…We need change.. We must change…i think this would be end of Babel,Strootman and Co..
Danjuma,Stengs,Boadu has amazing ball control they can do the job..But no one has the stamina of promes..koeman should forget luuk or werghost…he should stick with
Wijnaldum—Depay –Promes and
Danjuma—–Boadu—Stengs upfront to have something..
With Midfeild
Blind—Frenkie –Ake
Van de beek–Vilhena–Destroyer
defense
Kongolo–Virgil–Deligt–Karsdorp
Annholt–LCB—-Devrij—ki janahoover.
——Bizot–Cillessen–Vermeer
That is OK, guys. Do not get very disappointed. This tournament is just a replacement for friendlies. Koeman has done tremendous job in developing mentally strong team with fantastic defense. However, our attacking power was not there. I felt that midfield was not creative enough either. Maybe partly because Portuguese neutralized Frenkie very well. Three players in my view are lagging behind from the remaining squad: Dumfries, Bergwijn and Babel. Even Promes is nothing special. I beleive Koeman knows that too but there are not very many players to replace with. However, I am confident that he will find a right solution.
I stand by my comments that I’ve said time and time again… our attacking options that keep making the 1st team are awful.
Time to experiment. No more of these nonsense comments about certain players not being ready/too young.
I’d rather try something new and different and fail, but happy in the knowledge that I tried, than fail trying to the same old trick.
Bergwijn is not going to be a top player.
Dumfries is awful.
Positive, it’s not a lot that needs to change, but it’s whether Koeman is going to stop being stubborn. He should have learnt this lesson from the Germany game… this is his second chance.
Van de Beek has to start from now on. We have a much better tempo and atmosphere with him.
I want to see at least two new attacking options on our bench for the next match.
We started ok, nice possession, but after 25 minutes Portugal knew we had nobody to hurt them with. They grew confident and started playing.
Deserved win for them.
Better to fail fast and learn from it than being afraid to try and test.
Let’s face it
We are just not strong enough and koeman can just not get our strongest team
Sad cos we cannot find another better coach
Oranje is close beating jurgen Klopps record , the number of losing a final
He should have brought Danjuma or more attacking options
Another trophy that we slipped away
I’m counting Ajax together also
Hate to see Ronaldo winning
I have also to tell you guys, that it is OK to lose to a stronger team and Portuguese were a bit stronger. But I am very very positive that Oranje by 2021 will become absolutely invincible. So, all roads goes to Qatar where we finally lift the long anticipated trophy.
You seem to forget that we lost to Germany and if we lose again in September things become very complicated. With a win today we would have gone straight to the finals.
I do not forget anything, it is all working progress. Koeman knows better than anybody else who is fit for his tactics and strategy. I simply feel very optimistic that close to 2021 we will have very balanced team with all strong lines.
That is wrong information. If we won this final, we would have secured qualifications not straight ticket to Euro 2020.
Right, I didn’t mean we would be playing the final at Euro 2020 but qualification for the finals. Is this what you meant?
Well first thing is to make sure we can get into the euros
Mind you we are not in a good position. I’m frying
To be positive but if we play like this against Germany we will lose another game and then it’s over as Northern Ireland is already top of fable
Germany would love to bury us. Even a draw in Germany may not be enough.
So Portugal beats us once again. Nothing new. We are used to this. How many chances did we create ? 1 or 2. In the end we started hoofing long balls to Luuk deJing in typical once upon a time ennglish way. Sorry but Koeman is another mediocre coach. He is lucky that a core of super players is available to him.
We lost because our wingers and strikers are toothless
our forwards TOOTHLESS
MIDFEILD–oKAY COMPETENT OR NEAR TO THAT..
dEFENSE WORLD CLASS
Defend world class? Dumfries is part of defend also i can not forgive de ligt and frenkie for that goal. Look at that goal frenkie can run with gedes but he walk and watch him.
Hakim zyach. We need him. Really he should choose netherland. He born in netherland he go to dutch accademy. He study everything he play for u-17 u-21 and etc.
Then he choose morocco. What the fuck happened?? Guy Just think he play for us for right wing or left wing.
Hakim zyach. We need him. Really he should choose netherland. He born in netherland he go to dutch accademy. He study everything he play for u-17 u-21 and etc.
Then he choose morocco. What the fu… happened?? Guy Just think he play for us for right wing or left wing.
This will never happened for france and germany?? Never miss a top player. We miss hakim ziyash. Also marzaui. He can be dutch and our right back. He is better thand all our righ back
Faraz raises a good point. Two players in Mazouri and Ziyech that we lost to Morocco due to Dutch *stubbornness*. The same sturbnorness that has taken so long for Donny to finally get a foot in the door for the 1st 11. The same stubbornness that sees Strootman (who has absolutely nothing to offer) and Babel get called up time and time again.
All the while we kept (a phlothera of NT managers kept), selecting that waste of space Strootman, asset sweating Sneijder, banking on Robben to continually solve our problems, overlooked was Ziyech.
Then we went and made the same mistake with Mazouri.
So no, I do not blame them for choosing Morocco. Unless of course my account of events (based on what I’ve read about why they choose Morocco) is incorrect?
Absolutely right. These promising players with options to represent other national teams need to be nurtured and given opportunities so that they don’t get raided by other teams right when they are ready to perform after we have spent so much time and energy on developing them.
Danny Blind has to be one of the worst Oranje coaches of all time. Missed two major tournaments and we are still feeling the effects of his blunder in missing out on Ziyech and Marzaoui who as you have said would have been automatic starters on this team
Don’t believe the stories about Dutch stubborness re: Ziyech.
You gotta understand the Moroccan culture. There is so much pressure from the extended family for these lads to pick Morocco. Hakim played for Oranje rep teams and was selected by Hiddink for the NT. He got injured (or did he?) and never came to the squad. After that, he picked Morocco. I have it on good authority that some players would prefer Oranje themselves (more chances on winning big trophies etc) but their families (grandparents etc) would be extremely offended if they didn’t pick their original home country.
Do you really think that a player like Ziyech would pick another country over Holland because he didn’t like the NT assistant manager of that period?
Ridiculous.
I strongly disagree, firstly there was no clear line between van basten and blind as to who the coach was. They were working like co coaches and used to consult each other alot. Eventually in the end van basten left the sinking ship and Blind became the escape goat.
I have said this so many times, when it comes to benefit of doubt factor,ajax is always on the fore front.This was clearly the case at that time. Ziyech was clearly in transition at twente at that time and was ready to take the next step while klaassen overshadowed him because he was a regular starter at ajax. This continued at ajax when he got transfer there until klaassen departed for everton.
The rest is well documented in this article.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/15/decline-holland-dutch-total-obsession-past-football
This is exactly what I’m saying
Wtf yes I’m other words Morocco is taking all the advantage of the Oranje resources
It’s like we train our army . KNVB really needs to do something on this otherwise we will see ihattaren be the next one
So disappointing! Koeman is to blame for this by starting the same 11 as he did two days ago against England. Why not start Van de Beek? Why start Babel again? Dumfires was a tragedy today and in the last 10 minutes when we needed a goal Koeman takes out De Roon for Luuk De Jong! Why not just take out Dumfires who couldn’t get a pass right and keep De Roon on the game instead. Not saying De Roon was better but at least he was capable of making the right pass or not lose possession every time he had the ball!! Credit to Fernando Santos who in my opinion is the main reason behind Portugals recent success. He knew the dangers that Van Dijk and De Ligt bring from set pieces thats why he used two tall and strong midfielders like Danilo and William Carvalho who besides corners dominated the midfield as well.
We had to win this and and once again we came up short which is so typical of the Dutch national team. Damn it i really thought we had this!
I forgot to mention Cillesen and the hole he has on his glove. Extremely poor goalkeeping on the shot by Guedes.
We have several areas for development:
1. Front line at this moment does not look good. It is very inert, slow and predictable. I believe only Memphis and may be Promes could continue in Oranje. Babel, Bergwijn and de Jong are surplus. I think Koeman will invite Weghorst soon. As I said before, he will bring much more aggressiveness to the game than Babel. It is very obvious. I know some lads here propose to bring younger players (Stengs etc). I would not, as in my view time for experimenting has passed. Plus, I do not believe there are any bright young attackers that are ready for Oranje.
2. Midfield. Overall, we have very decent one. There is a huge hype around Frenkie de Jong, but today game showed that he is not worth of $86 mln. He is a good player but he was unable to make a difference today. He was not creative enough and he was not able to break the blockage that was created by Portuguese players. My main fear is that if he does not show enough in Barca, he will be sidelined and then we will lose our gem in the midfield. That will be a big problem. With respect to de Roon, he is very dependable and does his job for 100%. However, he does not bring any spark. I think today game showed that Donny van de Beek can ignite that spark. With respect to
Georginio Wijnaldum, his position should not be discussed.
3. I love our defense. De Ligt, Virgil and Blind are looking great. Dumfries is good player but still has long way to go. He was poor in his role as an attacking right back: bad passing and questionable technique. However, I do not know who would do better in that position. Obviously, if Koeman has the choice he would have brought that person up.
Goalkeeping: In contrast to some opinions, I think Cillissen was very good today. Taking into account that he is not a regular player in Barca, he did fantastic today. He needs to move away from Barcelona and start playing regularly.
Coaching: I have said that before and will repeat it again. Koeman is very good coach. He might be stubborn, but which Dutch is not? However, if he starts listening to all fans from this website then why KVBN needs him. I think he methodically bu
sorry did not finish it. Koeman methodically builds this team and he has done tremendous progress. Just compare where we were 2 years ago and where we are now. He knows more than anybody else the state of every candidate for Oranje and if he made this choice that means this is the best what he has for now.
The fact that he reads the game bad is annoying though. Against Germany, England and now Portugal the team started really bad and had to adjust. Luckily against the Germans and the English it worked but Portugal made us look bad. Our team was very poor tonight and stats prove so. 0 chances, 0 shots on goal and absolutely 0 threats to the Portuguese defense the first half. Second half he uses Promes and takes Babel instead of starting Promes and Van de Beek from the beginning. What was he thinking?? Because I saw a few comments above who were saying how good this Portuguese team was and since I have seen them in a few games I can honestly say that we made them look this good because we underperformed. Take a look at them against the Swiss, Serbia or Ukraine and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Again this was our cup to win and like we always do we gave it away.
NT playing style is back to old habit. That is backpass, backpass & backpass. If not backpass, lateral pass. What a shame! No creativity, no through pass & no penetration from the midfield. The midfielders: Frenkie, De Roon & Wijnaldum had no courage to hold the ball, play it & move the ball forward. I think, it’s better to lose the ball in the opponent’s box than keep changing passes in the back among keeper, centre/wing back & midfielders. Even, when there was no threat, they always kept doing that. It’s worsened by the ineffective forwards. Babel, Depay & Bergwijn lost their touch. They couldn’t kept the ball. They lost it easily. It happened especially in the first half. Things got better in the second half when Promes & De Beek came in. But the Portuguese had strengthened more their defense since they’re up 1-0 and no more time left. It should have been done from the first half.
So, I think, for the next matches (Euro 2020 qualifying) some changes should be made by Koeman as a coach or by the players themselves. First, the left wingback Van Aanholt and the right wingback Hateboer should be tried. Centerbacks: De Light/Van Dijk/Ake/De Vrij are ok. Second,in the midfield, when De Roon/Vilhena (a holding midfielder) is there, Frenkie &/or Wijnaldum/De Beek should be attacking more. Frenkie is a box to box & Wijnaldum/De Beek a playmaker/second striker. They should also be creative. They should know when to pass, hold or play with the ball. Especially vertical, forward or through pass. They should have courage to do it. I’m sure they can do it since they are very skillful players. Third, for the forwards, Promes, Depay and Bergwijn Babel are still ok. Babel should be tried as a central striker & Weghorst should be given the chance to play. In addition, Koeman should learn from current Ajax playing style and apply it to the NT.
So the formation: 4-2-3-1
Depay/Weghorst
Promes—Wijnaldum/De beek—Bergwijn
De Roon/Vilhena—Frenkie
Van Anholt–DeLight/VVD/Ake/DeVrij–Hateboer
Cillesen
This is what Koeman said to vi.nl. Very sober analysis.
Ronald Koeman made the balance of his first full international season as national coach on Sunday evening after second place in the Nations League.
“We know where we come from, but we also know where we can improve,” said the national coach after the loss to Portugal at the NOS. ‘Defensive and it looks good in midfield. Let’s hope we get more at the front in the coming years. Then we gain in creativity. You can see that there are a number of players coming for the attack, but the level for the Orange is different than playing an occasional game in the Netherlands. ”
The Dutch hardly forced anything against Portugal, certainly in comparison with the semi-final against England. “That depends on the opponent. I expected such a match, you saw that Portugal fell far back. I thought we were inaccurate. Occasionally we played the long ball, while that was not possible at all. We should have held the ball longer, we did not do enough in the first half. But Portugal defended better than England. ”
Koeman was particularly disturbed by the continuation on the right. “It wasn’t good. There was room there, but there was more ball loss than danger. After the break, they fell even further, also as a result of the 1-0. After that they only started defending more. A few dangerous moments came, but we did not create really big opportunities. Maybe we were a little too tired. ”
All in all, Koeman looks back on the Nations League campaign with a positive feeling. ‘We have played against France, Germany, England and Portugal. I think that these are as good as the strongest countries in Europe, although Spain may still be part of that.
I have not yet seen the game but I would bet that fatigue played a significant part in this loss. The game against England was hard, and it went into overtime, and the Dutch got a day’s less rest than Portugal. That adds up to a tired team, I’d bet. I don’t think The Netherlands had enough recovery time for this match.
I saw a tweet today from Dutch Soccer noting that Daley Blind had played 67 games this year. That is absurd! There are way too many games for all these players in all the leagues. It’s just greed–owners and teams wanting to wring every last drop of profit they can out of every (LOOOONG) season. I’m surprised the players’ legs don’t fall off!
That is why they make that much money.
Dutch team was tired definitely, Must improve in front of the opposition goal especially against the kind of ringed defence put up by Portugal which they also used even in the Euro cup final against France. Some more creativity and players like groenveld can help. Need to use Ake in coming matches so that he can help that midfield .
I have already send a message to Ronald Koemans Facebook page
Please do the same it’s public .
He needs to accept and hear our comments otherwise we will be soon kicked out of the Euro again
Dont think this is a joke . We are third place now in the group and if we lose our next game against Germany in September , bye bye then
Even I don’t agree with all that Koeman does, but we have to note the fact that he did a big turnaround in less than 2 years! We are back again with the top. Team was tired yesterday after the England SF and considering 6 players played such a big long Champions League campaign! Regarding qualifying for Euros, we will definitely make it, don’t despair!
Given a lot of key points were discused after the england game I will just pick on some other important ones here but before that I think there were some here who underestimated portgual including on the part where portgual are too reliable on on Ronaldo.I dont wanna take names but the simple matter of fact when it comes to the final its all about player head to head and which team as a whole is better. I think the draw backs for NT has been dicussed in detail on top so no use repeating.
On another note I remember having a debte with lucas some time back where we were talking about the next generational players and he said;
“I don’t see Spain, Germany, Argentina, Italy, Portugal, Belgium has a better generation than us in the next couple years”
to which I replied
” I would definitely include Portugal and italy in that list.portgual has always being nemesis for NT come tournments and qualification.some of their next generation players are competitively active in benfica , porto and sporting.big name clubs are already circling their next wonderkids joao felix (19) and ruben dias (21). City are on the verge of scooping sporting start bruno fernendes (23) The wolves contingent Ruben Neves (22),diego jota (22) are coming on the back of one of the best season in epl. Bernando silva (24), Joao Cancelo (21) juventus,diego dalot (20) man united are all reguar. Their u19 start joao filipe (19) benfica is one of the hottest prospect in europe right now dubbed as the mext ronaldo. Joao felix and him are the future of Portugese to continue the legacy of their greats like figo,Ronaldo.” Again coming back to the final and most of these names were critical in propelling the side to victory.the stats says it all here. This again coincides with what I further said on ;
“There is no doubt koeman has taken the team to another level but that doesnt change the fact other big teams have advantage of injecting more players playing in their domestic competitive league compared to the dutch who have to rely on certain group of players playing at top level. You again come back to square 1 while others are rotating players in multiple positions, the dutch are stagnant with a one set of starting 11”
Santos was spot on this time tatically rather than playing catch up compared to the last outings and he even didnt hesltate to drop felix and Neves for danilo and Guedes. You see this is what gives you the edge as a coach with depth in the team especially in a final. You compare this to koeman he starts with his best 11, if they are winning it ok, if they are lossing, send in luuk. It aint gona work this way. Koeman needs to bring in some new faces and start rotating the likes of Ake, Hateboer, Van annholt etc for the qualifiers.
I sure not many people know who Goncalo guedes is. He is a very talented player when he jumped to the stage at Benfica and like Depay, his big move to PSG back fired. He is recuperating at valencia these days like depay at lyon.
On a final note I will go with what AZ forever said.all the roads lead to qatar 2021. The euros will just be another formalities.we can always say the team needs kluivert, stengs, Malen etc but we dont know how it will turn out. You look at bergwijn for example.there was a lot of hype about him, and again he turned out to be an average. I was reading an article on him before the england game.they were comparing his stats with sancho. I was reading and laughing at it because how can compare bundasliga to eredivisie.
The attention should shift to qualifers now. Maybe not vs germany but my expectation is to see some changes coming in in later stages.
I believe I said before the game that without Ronaldo Portugal is nothing special and I should not have said that. This team is really special one. I honestly did not expect to see that.
It also happened in the euro 2016 and Out of all players it was an unknown eder who stepped up to rifle the winner.
Portugal is something like Greece 2004 v2 but with a much better individual talent. They park the bus and won’t let you play and then score in a counterattack. Santos also coached Greece for a few years. they are good but not out of this world like some of you are making it to be. Against Swiss they could have lost. Swiss played better for large swaths of the game. They just have extra motivation when playing against us and we just do not know how to score against them.
I am concerned about EC 2020. Winning in Germany in Sept is almost a must and we don’t cope well with pressure. We will see. Koeman has lost a few points in my opinion with his stupid persistence of playing same 11 for 2/3 of a must win game. I won’t put it past him to play this same 11 come September.
In looking ahead to the 2020 Euros and 2022 World Cup, I think we have several positions that are in good shape with relatively young players (future ages noted for 2020 and 2022):
Center Back
Virgil van Dijk (age 28, 30)
Matthijs de Ligt (age 20, 22)
Stefan de Vrij (age 28, 30)
Nathan Aké (age 25, 27)
Defensive Midfielder
Frenkie de Jong (age 23, 25)
Forward
Memphis Depay (age 26, 28)
These are all high quality players and we will need to quickly find others to fill around them so we don’t waste their prime years.
However, we have yet to find solutions for the following positions for the upcoming tournaments:
Outside Backs
Daley Blind (age 30, 32) – Great passer, but already slow and getting older. Could still contribute in 2020, but probably not in 2022. Unless we start to play with three in the back, we need to start developing a replacement LB.
Denzel Dumfries (age 24, 26) – Physically very capable, but questionable decision-making and a real possession-stopper in attack. Young enough to still develop, but we should be looking at other options.
Patrick van Aanholt (age 30, 32) – Probably not the answer, but can provide depth for 2020.
Hans Hateboer (age 26, 28) – Seems like he should get a shot at RB, or at least compete with Dumfries there.
Midfielders
Georginio Wijnaldum (aged 29, 31) – A real momentum shifter and influential player, but probably not enough passing creativity to play as a #10. Concern that at 31, will he still be able to bring the same energy in the Qatar heat?
Kevin Strootman (age 30, 32) – Unfortunately, I think we’ve missed his best window due to injuries. Will probably not be back for 2020 and almost certainly not for 2022 unless he has a remarkable resurgence at the club level.
Tonny Vilhena (age 25, 27) – Still young and can be influential, but his role will depend on who else is playing around him.
Davy Pröpper (aged 28, 30) – Useful as a change of pace substitute, but probably not a starter for Oranje.
Marten de Roon (age 29, 31) – Effective as a defensive midfielder, but similar to the others listed above, probably lacking that creative spark. Age-wise, is sort of peaking in between international tournaments. A shame that we were not able to see more of him due to missed qualifications.
Donny van de Beek (age 23, 25) — Very young and energetic and can certainly provide an attacking spark. But can he be “the man”? Similar to Vilhena, I think his success will depend more on who is positioned around him.
Forwards
Ryan Babel (age 33, 35) – Presumably done internationally.
Quincey Promes (age 28, 30) – Can be effective together with Memphis, but seems like we need better scoring and wing play from our front line. Could still be around in 2020, but likely not in 2022.
Luuk de Jong (age 29, 31) – Presumably done internationally.
Steven Bergwijn (age 22, 24) – Young and plays with a lot of energy, but will need to develop considerably to be a first choice attacker internationally.
Justin Kluivert and Javairô Dilrosun (both 21, 23), among others, will need to start getting more looks and first team appearances if we are really to develop as an attacking team again.
players that could make their way back. Anwar el ghazi, Adam Maher, Marco Van Ginkel, Rick Karsdorp.
I was also thinking,there will be a major shift in team balance if a any striker replacing depay doesn’t have his tempo or in other words his down grade of him.this is one reason why I havent listed weghorst and janssen. it has to be someone who is up to his level or even one better. Lammers is more of a traditional no 9 while Malen is somebody that could be reach depay level but with him ariel threat would be limited. given depays work rate is good I would have him in the middle.
Zirkzee is also active with bayern as the pre season kicks start. still cant see him dethroning lewandoski unless he (lewa) gets injured. might make the bench come the new season.
danjumas situation at club brugge has also taken a swift turn and he might have to work harder now after his injury return.Krepin Diatta put on an impressive performance in his absence and danjuma now might face a stiff competition from him. I hope its not one of those cases where there is a major drop of form after recovering from injury
Rick karsdorp getting forgotten, he can be a good right attacking back for netherlands. The other player are worth looking at is kluivert in roma
He is currently out of form at Roma after his injury return.
And speaking of World Cups, as a reminder, our Dutch women’s team plays tomorrow at 9 am Eastern time in the US (3 pm Amsterdam time) vs New Zealand. Our other two group stage opponents, Canada and Cameroon, are facing off right now…
Portugal has an unbeaten record of 10 matches since losing to Uruguay at the last World Cup. It has lost only two out of 38 competitive matches since Santos took charge under five years ago. So its a top team performing well from the 2004 euro. Though its world cup performance is not that great. So netherlands got to give some respect.
I dont quite agree with the criticism aired against Denzel Dumfries, he can improve his offensive abilities as a right back further but he is strong and sturdy and did quite well overall
I also agree on that but have a different view. All these times when Dumfries was offensively thriving he was in good books.what people dont realize is he had alot on his plate vs england (sancho and Chilwell) and Ronaldo vs portgual. Vs england babel was not tracking back and he had to take all the pressure. Vs portgual any one would be cautious going forwrd knowing ronaldo is on his flank and plus bergwijn was also tracking back well.
The other aspect of playing with offensive full backs is how well the CBs and CMs can cover him up when playing high up (fullbacks). How often you see CBs drifting to cover up fullbcks and the fullbacks tracking back cover up for cbs. This is where they need to talk or focus more.
Remeber van der wiel at PSG.he defensive weaknesses was never exposed there and they fully utilized him offensively.
If you look at Guedes goal, that what happened but the central midfielders were in no mans land. De ligt drfited to the left, dumfries tracked in but there was too space in the middle.
https://youtu.be/0wrEpAfbKps
Watching women’s game against NZ. Not very impressed. A lot of possession but no goals. Game can go either way. And the group is tough.
They finally did it at the death, 92nd minute.
This team has good build up skills but couldn’t do much on final third. I had read a lot about Miedema, Van de Donk etc. but I guess I will have to adjust my expectations for now. First game is always tough though.
Okay, so while I can’t really take credit or blame, I’ll go ahead and apologize for that initial performance by our Lionesses. Martens and Groenen were the only players that demonstrated any real quality from my woefully inept.
I don’t think that the NZ match was a particularly good advertisement for women’s football either, but thanks to Jill Roord, we did get the win, and maybe the nerves will go away now and we can get back to playing some higher quality football.
Lost some words there. Meant to say:
Martens and Groenen were the only players that demonstrated any real quality from my perspective, and our backline was woefully inept.
Also, watching that first match this morning was reminiscent of the problems that plagued our 2012 Euro squad — a completely disjointed side with a huge gap between a strong attacking group and less impressive midfield and backline. That 4-2-3-1 we played under van Marwijk contributed to that gap, and in the women’s game today, we couldn’t get anything going upfront until the attacking 5 started really moving back into withdrawn positions to pick up the ball. Even then, there was not good off the ball movement in the midfield, and to be honest, just a lot of poor touches on the ball. I expected far better myself.
The US women’s team (considered among the very best in the world) play later today (at 3 pm Eastern time / 9 pm Amsterdam time). They should be a good measuring stick for our performance.
US should win this game by at least 6-0. Thailand seems totally overwhelmed.
Thailand is completely overmatched, but the US is definitely used to being the favorites and play like it. The Netherlands needs to develop that mentality and learn to break down bunkered teams, as that is what we will face most of the tournament.
The US also has converted forwards playing as outside backs — O’Hara and Dunn. They add an entirely new dimension to the attack. Our backline for the most part appears surprised when they were passed the ball (other than on that one nice late-breaking run into the box)…
All of our backs appear incredibly slow as well. That may be our greatest liability
New Zealand is a good, experienced defensive squad and they were very disciplined and organized today–they made it hard for a good Dutch team. It is always hard to score against teams that put 8+ behind the ball most of the game; I don’t care who you are. Usually, somebody has got to head one in–and, thankfully, that happened–in the nick of time.
NZ definitely had a plan to deal with our attacking threats and implemented it well. I think they came in playing for a 0-0 draw or to try to just nick one if the chance presented itself. They almost pulled it off…
Neither Canada nor Cameroon looked particularly strong in the other group match, although each of them will present different challenges.
While it’s nice for the US to get to fire on all cylinders right out of the gate, there is also something to be said for gathering real momentum by overcoming actual challenges as the tournament progresses. Hopefully, we’ll be able to get our act together and beat both Canada and Cameroon!
I just read that the Dutch are 9 points behind Northern Ireland in qualifying for the next Euro championship. Can that be right? I confess I have not followed Euro qualifying but will do a bit of research now. Will the Dutch make it?
their next qualifer vs Germany is must win game. both Northern Ireland and Germany won their respective qualifiers today. northern Ireland is on 12 points leading the table with with 4 games played, Germany are with 9 points with 3 games.
the dutch are third with 3 points having played 2 games.
richarde,
In my view our chances of missing another tournament have increased. When in position before we always have luck against us. Unless Koeman becomes a magician.
Yes guys
Believe it or not , we are in danger of missing a third consecutive major tournament
If we lose the next game then thats it .
( don’t tell me that we’ve got the play offs due to the nations league), I don’t wanna go to that page yet
How come could
We have put ourselves in such a position again ? I think koeman is the one to blame , as he kept sticking with the “old players “ and not having the guts enough of using new people
Yes some of you may say he had been using Frenkie , dilrosun , Danjuma etc . But let me tell you, it’s not enough . He had been too conservative on using new attacking players and finding our new robben and Van Persie etc
The last two games could have been the perfect chance of using new people .
Sad and now we are left with worried for another few months .
Germany would only be getting more and more difficult to play against , being an away game
I would not be that dramatic. We played only two games. Northern ireland has not played against Germany yet. Lastly, draw in Germany will be a good achievement too.
@Yan and Balkan
https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/het-begint-nu-pas-echt-voor-oranje-concurrent-noord-ierland
If de Ligt leaves Ajax, would you prefer for him to go to Barcelona, PSG, or elsewhere?
I’m thinking Barcelona at this point, because even given Valverde’s tenuous position, it seems a more stable environment, and more importantly, because it gives him the opportunity to continue to play with de Jong and Cillessen, which seems like it will better serve the national team’s interest in the long run.
Although I think Tuchel is a decent manager, PSG currently features no other Dutch players and plays in a weaker league than Barcelona does, so I think Barca is probably the best choice…
In general, it does not matter where de Ligt goes as long as he will play all games. However, I would want him to go Juventus.
I undrestand u guys. But do u know we have two games with north ireland?? We need 4 points from that two games. And i have to say if holland cannot get 4 points from north ireland then they really desserve nothing. So dont look at germany game. The most important game is with north ireland
To make it simple. If NT cant beat Northern Ireland, they don’t deserve to be in euros. I see germany topping this pool and NT as runnerup.
Perfect statement!
Ake heavily linked with spurs.
I was thinking about it if koeman shifts him to DM,his trajectory will lift off.
I think along with young players like Danjuma, Redan, boadu, stengs , dilrosun, the coach must find a way to integrate Wout weghorst into the dutch eleven and playing way. He must take a look at how he is playing at wolfsburg to grt a clue. He has scored 17 goals, 7 assists from 34 games for Wolfsburg. Its not a bad performance at all.
No doubt, but that would mean shifting depay on the wings.this will again shift the focus away from weghorst. If you remember at AZ he used to get alot of service from idrissi and Jahanbakhsh. Unfortunately with depay the service part will be limited and as usually weghorst will be isolated up front. Another option would be to start depay on the right.
https://youtu.be/5NU_jaEjKKg
Check out his goals and how clinical he can be when you service him.
But then we will have only Depay as a scoring force, which will make things very predictable and limited. I was thinking of having a winger which would be exclusively serving Wout and then Depay as a freelancer.
We got to get all this to koeman so that such ideas are useful to Dutch team.
Weghorst could turn out to be the miroslav klose of Netherlands team
Im hoping Lammers and Malen to explode this season very similar to Depay who sky rocked in the second season of the eredivisie. IF PSV can bring in reinforcement where they are out of depth like CBs and MF,they could be a top notch this season.
This is intresting. Clasie wants AZ alkmaar move. Has already talked to arne slot and will have to take a pay cut to remain in eredivisie.
I was hoping PSV sign him.
In another transfer news aston villa has signed club brugge Brazilian striker Wesely in a club record deal. I followed this guy at brugge and he has massive potential. Tall and lanky, he will have a good chemistry with el ghazi whose deadly crossess are very instrumental.
@Wilson, Really? I have not heard of Clasie move conversations with AZ. AZ has two controlling midfielders already. Perhaps, they will keep Koopmeiners as central defenders and Vejinovic and Clasie will be at controlling midfielder positions. Interesting….
OK, just read it in football oranje morning news
https://www.football-oranje.com/sinkgraven-set-to-join-leverkusen/
This is always good to see. Coaches moulding players they know have potential.
On the hand very very disappointed with zivkovic. He should have taken the pay cut and proved himself in eredivisie. Money driven he chose to go to china and play in second division. Beggers can be chooses after all.
U still can’t get zivcovic out of your head
Forget him. He’s passed . he’ll never be the person we have once expected
Dutch women play again tomorrow (Saturday) against Cameroon (9 am Eastern / 3 pm Amsterdam time).
A win should get us through to the knock-out round.
Another simply awful first half for the Dutch women’s team, but then finally a break through with a a very nice goal!
But then we go and concede almost immediately.
I’ve watched this team over the course of several years now and I can’t remember them playing this poorly.
There is no connection between the lines.
The defense continues to be slow and inept, but the midfield is absent as well. When our front line can actually get the ball, good things happen, but they have so few touches that the rest of the match just looks awful…
And a second goal for the Lionesses! Off a set piece…
Not exactly how it was drawn up but Groenen with a great ball and Bloodworth gets a second chance at it!
I just really want to see us string together 5 or so passes, where everyone appears engaged and moving to provide options. So far, it’s been like watching my daughter’s team, and not something you’d expect at the international level!
Additionally, this referee has been particularly poor, not necessarily to our disadvantage, but just in managing the game generally. Lots of physicality allowed, seeming inability to communicate with the players, lots of delays in restarts, etc.
Miedema comes close on another volley. We are heavily attacking on our right side with van de Sanden and Groenen.
Still waiting on five completed passes in a row…
The Dutch fans just broke out some Queen and we just completed 7 in a row!
Perhaps we need a soundtrack to get some rhythm…
Every ball played into Cameroon’s front line becomes a huge risk because our back line is SO SLOW!
Finally, we get some possession at the top of their box, but we keep playing overhit through balls to van de Sanden.
We keep running van Lunteran forward from right back to hit ineffective crosses, and then leave a huge gap behind her as she struggles to get back.
Beerensteyn on for van de Sanden. Hopefully she’ll bring some energy and quality touches
The sheer number of misplaced passes in the defensive midfield is shocking.
Cameroon increasing the brutality. At some point the yellows are not going to be enough…
Roord on for van de Donk.
Cameroon freely running into the box. Dutch defenders acting like they’re window shopping, just casually observing the action…
In attack, it’s like we can only play in patterns, and we just keep playing the pattern whether or not the opportunity exists. We just continue to feed Miedema 25 yards out with her back to goal under tight pressure for no apparent reason…
Jackie Groenen is at least battling for the ball.
I wonder if we should try to even play a possession style if we only have four players who can pass the ball accurately!
More window shopping in the box as Cameroon almost scores again!
Wow! In the 80th minute we remembered how to play football!
And Miedema crushes it! 3-1!
Miedema stepping it up now. Amazing cross-field pass to Beerensteyn, who does nothing with it
Glimpses of quality play. Miedema and Groenen certainly showed up in this one.
This should get us to the next round, and maybe we can use the next match to figure things out!
I dunno man. This team is not convincing at all. I’ve seen both games and we had a lot of luck. I don’t understand how they are EC winners. Way too many misplaced passes and bad first touches. Cameroon could have had a much better result if they were a bit luckier.
If they go past next round it should be considered a success. USA is head and shoulders above Holland at least thus far.
Do you know we play next round?
Balkan, it is true, the ladies have been far from convincing over the course of the last two games. They’ve shown little glimpses here and there. The main problem has been finding fluency, especially in their passing. Sometimes against teams that set up to disruptive like NZ and Cameroon did it can be hard, as they can drag you down to their level and embroil You in an unwanted scrap.
I would definitely say the ladies are far calapable of much better (I.e. euro 2017!). The main thing is that they’ve qualified for the knockout stages. Now let’s hope they find their rhythm as they do have the ability to go far. They’ll know that they’ve been nowhere near their best and will want to change that.
Anyway… it’s best to start tournament slow and end up with a cup (as they did in Euro 2017), than start fast and run out of steam!
I don’t disagree. The performance has been very disappointing so far, even allowing for the difference in men’s vs women’s football.
I’ve watched a few minutes of Canada vs NZ and Canada is just completing bossing the game — like we should have done!
I agree with Lucas as well. Very little fluidity. Players expecting teammates to be ready for passes when they are not, players missing wide open teammates with wayward passes.
Additionally, I feel that referring to our defenders as lumbering is too kind. They would make Joris Mathijsen or Ron Vlaar look quick and nimble.
Our next round opponent will depend on the outcome of our final game vs Canada. The winner will finish first in our group.
If we win, we would play the runner-up of Group D. If we lose, we would play the runner-up of Group F.
Group F is the US’s group, so hopefully they wont’ finish second! Sweden is more likely.
Group D currently has England in first and second will probably be Japan or Argentina.
Anybody following copa america.