The Dutch National Team has reached the Final Four of the Nations League. A view on the stats tells us that the full backs were instrumental in the group stages.
The only player to play in all Nations League games is Steven Bergwijn. The 24 year old had the most shots of all Dutchies (13 shots, 2 goals) and had the most successful dribbles (9). He also created 8 opportunities for other, but none of these were converted into goals. He is the man who had the most assists, without these ending up as actual assists…
Memphis Depay only played 46% of all possible Nations League minutes and he missed a penalty versus Poland but he is still the key man, with three goals and one assist. He needed 12 shots for his 3 goals, with a total Expected Goal value of 2,5, the highest xG of all Oranje players.
Cody Gakpo created in total 14 chances for his team mates, five more than any other. Twelve were from open play and two came from corners. Despite all this creativity, he only had one assist, the corner which Virgil converted versus Belgium at home. The PSV forward was also the strongest in duel power. Of all internationals with more than 10 personal duels, his win percentage is highest (65%).
It’s no surprise that Frenkie is the engine of this team, with the most touches (325) and the most successful passes (259). He was also involved with most attacks from open play ( 192). These stats tell us how important he is when Oranje wants to move forward. Once the ball gets there, Frenkie’s work is done. He had zero shots on goal and a low number of touches in the opponent’s box (3).
The Victim and the Perpetrator
Denzel Dumfries was involved with 3 goals, two scored by himself and one assist. The right back had the highest expected assist value of 1,7 and he was the biggest victim (fouls against him 9) and the biggest perpetrator of fouls (11) in the squad. Dumfries has the highest number of personal duels won (33, 10 more than any other player).
Oranje scored 14 goals, of which 11 were assisted. Daley Blind and Vincent Janssen have the most assists (2 ). Blind had two within 4 minutes versus Belgium away. Janssen had an assist versus Wales at home and in the Poland away game, for Bergwijn.
With Blind having the most assists and Dumfries the most expected assists, it clearly shows the hand of Louis 5-3-2 Van Gaal. The impact of the full backs is also visible in the xG Chain stats. This is the sum of the total xG (expected goals) values of all attacks in open play and all players involved, for instance as scorer or as pre-assist giver. Blind leads this table, with Dumfries as #4.
Jurrien Timber has grown to be a firm starter in Van Gaal’s Oranje and will probably start at the World Cup in Qatar. The Ajax defender “saw” the most passes by an opponent and intercepted 8 forward passes.
Guus Til played one minute versus Wales and was on the pitch when both Wales and Holland scored late in the game. He himself had only one touch. His impact was truly minimal but he still had some share in reaching the final four.
The Creative Goalie
In the list of players who created a chance, Mark Flekken is also present. In the away game versus Wales, he had a long pass to Gakpo who almost scored. Flekken ( 1 in 180 minutes) created just as many chances as Davy Klaassen (1 in 244 minutes).
Kjell Scherpen was with the group 3 times, just as many as Virgil van Dijk. But he didn’t play a single minute for Oranje. He is the player topping the list of players who were present but didn’t play a minute.
In response to orangutan and his comments on spite… I will copy some of his words and give you my analysis.
“Oranje’s resolve to do what it does, over and over again, against the face of all common sense, could only be categorized as one thing; SPITE. It surely can’t be ineptitude.”
I’ve had discussions with orangutan about this earlier. And I am trying to get my head around it.
I think I have it now: what he calls spite is not spite, actually. Spite is more like a laden opinion, or judgement. What someones sees as spite, another could see as perseverance of a vision. Or what one sees as ‘arrogant’, another could define as ‘confident’.
I think what onrangutan is talking about is actually the Dutch Culture. Or football culture. It’s not spite. It’s an overarching mentality towards football which is very Dutch, basically.
I mean, lets face it: it’s not just Van Gaal who acts like this. Coaches like Hiddink, Blind, Advocaat, Koeman and more have been criticised in the exact same way.
And as I pointed out, all Dutch ex players or pundits who comment on the game seem to be sharing the same opinion, so it’s not one guy’s spite, it’s a cultural thing.
We have certain beliefs we share, as Dutchies, and those beliefs can be summed up as such:
– we are the best footballing nation never to have won the World Cup
– we should have won it 4 times now (1974, 1998, 1998, 2010)
– we are the best in developing players
– we are responsible for total football and Barca’s tika taka
– we outsmart every oppponent. IF we lose it’s because of 1) bad luck (1978, 1998), 2) unfair practices of the opponent (1974) or ref mistakes (2010).
– we invented modern football
– only Dutchies can coach the National Team
This is endemic and systemic.
Only yesterday, former Dutch internationals Jan Boskamp (1978), Wim Kieft (80s) and Andy vd Meyde (2004) were singing Daley Blind’s praise and said “surely he will play at the World Cup, Holland needs him”.
This is not mass psychosis. This is not Danny Blind blackmailing a whole nation.
I fear that this attitude of the Dutch is what we’ll have to live with. It’s like loving another human being (woman or man, I’m quite tolerant as you know, or any gender) and realising they have some flaws.
If you support Oranje, you’ll need to be able to “accept” those flaws.
If we didn’t have them, we’d be like Denmark. Or Austria. Or Poland.
But we’re not, we’re a small nation sticking the middle finger up to Germany, Brazil, England and Argentina whenever we can…
** I fear that this attitude of the Dutch is what we’ll have to live with. It’s like loving another human being (woman or man, I’m quite tolerant as you know, or any gender) and realising they have some flaws.
If you support Oranje, you’ll need to be able to “accept” those flaws.
If we didn’t have them, we’d be like Denmark. Or Austria. Or Poland.
But we’re not, we’re a small nation sticking the middle finger up to Germany, Brazil, England and Argentina whenever we can… **
I love these last four sentences, Jan. The only issue I have with what you’ve written is that you describe these Dutch attributes as “flaws”. I have enough stubborn, confident Dutch blood in me that I think of them as simply “traits”, not flaws
I agree actually. I am the same. I guess I used “flaw” to explain it to orangutan who clearly sees it as a flaw. But as I said earlier about his word “spite”, it’s all an opinion and judgement. One man’s flaw is the other man’s ….whatever 🙂
“You must understand that playing Left Back for Holland isn’t some grand, life changing experience right? If Malacia is a good left back, he doesn’t need to play left back for Holland to like level up? Getting an international cap is a nice thing for player, but it doesn’t make them a better player. The second Blind retires Malacia will have the spot, he doesn’t need to learn how to play Left Back for Holland if he knows how to play Left Back, its the same thing. The fact that he can slip in a LCB is probably a good thing for his selection”.
What rubbish is this man and again I see where you are taking this. its all contradictory and I have already mentioned it all above. You are saying Malacia doesnt need to play in NT to get better if he is good LB. it was never about this. it was about malacia being better option to build the team around then experienced but worn out Blind for WC and how he has being held back. this is also where I referred to what Jan pointed out as well. “only needed when required”. My question is very simple why only at Lb, its subject to special preference/ accommodation , why not at Rb or any other position. then you say malacia has to wait until blind retires,. I mean nobody is dump here to see what happening there. now obviously like what we saw in 2014, van Gaal tactically will use different players in different games but then once again going back, should they have build the team around better players then it wouldn’t come down to this. again in 2014 Kyut makeshift LB /Blind worked. its gamble you dont know will work every time . this is where imo Malacia should have started as much games as possible so that his confidence level is high to certain degree.
there is also the delimma of wijnadal returning from injury at Ajax. I think he was on the bench vs Liverpool. What happens in the coming weeks also will be interesting from being NT capped/ experienced and familiarity point of view when the final selection is announced.
As for this
“Also, your fanboying of Veerman is getting ridiculous at this point. He’s behind Klaassen and WAYYYY behind Koopmeiners. Koopmeiners is dominating Italian teams week to week, Klaassen is a Champions League level player. Veerman can’t handle Bodo/Glimt or Rangers”.
I think you have forgot the drubbing of the JC shield. I leave you with this.
I know you like your long winding responses so I’ll keep it simple.
van Gaal thinks that the quality of Blind is greater than Malacia, that is why he starts.
Veerman playing one good game in 3 months does not make him National Team material.
Derek, exactly 🙂
The JC shield is not considered a big thing in Amsterdam. It’s considered big in Eindhoven, hahahaha…
Your comments re: Blind and Malacia… (facepalm)… I would also love to see Malacia in Oranje.
But our coach, a certain LVG who is considered one of the most successful coaches in world football, has a different opinion. How hard is it for you to support the team and the coach?
You do bring the mood down all the time with your continuous hammering on a dead horse. No one cares.
Thanks again Jan. It’s very frustrating to see the same posters posting the same pointless arguments over and over.
Jean, if you don’t like Holland, don’t watch them. Saying Memphis is no good is just dumb, sorry. He’s scored 13 goals and 5 assists in 11 games for Holland. No one is beating that. We all understand this is not a good generation of players, but we need to play a BEST 11. We can’t just not play a striker because we don’t have one. We also don’t have a keeper as good as ones we have in the past, but we need to put someone there. Telling us they’re all bad is just pointless.
Wilson, just drop the Blind thing. You’re not right, and the more you write the more wrong you come across. The worst part of this witch hunt is that at this point if Holland were to make the World Cup Final and you had to pick between us winning and Blind getting the winning assist, or us losing and Blind causing the blunder, I think you’d pick us losing so that you’d get to use your favourite line “It’s like I’ve been saying…” The Veerman thing too, he’s not at an international level, he’s an above average Eredivisie level. If he was better, a better club would have wanted him. You’re not a better scout than all the professional scouts out there.
The easiest way to spot the bias is that whenever Blind has a good game, you are unwilling to admit that he excelled, and you’ll 100% of the time just blame the other team. As far as you’re concerned in his whole career Blind has only had “good games” against bad teams. All of UEFA names Blind defender of the round, but nope, it was just a terribly bad Dortmund.
Blind is going to get 3 assists in the World Cup final against a Brazil or something, and we’ll be reading about how bad Brazil was in that game and how Blind will struggle against higher tempo teams.
Consistency my friend. Consistency. Performance should speak the loudest and nothing else.
Daley Blind had had a pretty consistent career. Almost 100 caps.
Veerman is far from consistent.
If Daley Blind plays 100 what I’ll call international level matches, probably 70 of them will be at like a 7/10 rating. Maybe 10 will be 8/10, 10 will be 6/10. He’ll get like 5 at a 5/10 and 5 at 9/10. That’s kind of how I look at him.
For Veerman, if he played 100 games at that level, I think he’d be closer to like 60 games at a 6/10 rating, maybe 10 at 7/10, and 10 at 5/10 and probably 10 at 4/10. He’ll then probably do like 5 games 8/10 and 5 games at 9/10.
But your issue is that you’ll always identify Blind by his worst games, and you’ll identify Veerman by his best games.
Here are my predictions (optimistic) for the World Cup
Holland 3-2 Senegal
-Holland takes a 2-0 lead, Bergwijn, Depay, Senegal pull two back (probably Mane), and Holland get a late goal to win the game, Dumfries
Holland 2-0 Ecuador
-Hard fought win for Holland, probably a lot of fouls, Holland scoring one from a corner, VVD, and Depay gets a pen
Holland 3-0 Qatar
-Playing some subs (including Malacia), Holland gets an easy win. Gakpo, Bergwijn and Gravenberch
Holland 3-1 USA
-Frenkie breaks the deadlock, and Depay and Bergwijn both get on the scoresheet from counter attacks
Holland 1-1 Argentina (4-2 PSO)
-Berghuis contributes his first goal of the competition. Lautauro gets one back, but Messi on the RW is kept relatively quiet by Blind and VVD. Pasveer comes up big in the shootout
-(Realistically I think Argentina would win this, but I’m in an optimistic mood)
Holland 2-1 Brazil
-With weak wingbacks, Blind and Dumfries tear the team apart. Dumfries gets one, Janssen off the bench gets another.
Holland 3-0 Germany
-And in the final we throttle Germany. Blind sets up Berghuis, Klaassen and Devyne Rensch for the three goals.
hahahaha I love it. The only thing missing is:
Holland – Argentina: LVG decides to bring Daley Blind on as penalty killer goal keeper.
He stops 4 spotkicks and during the celebrations, his mask comes off and it is revealed that Daley Blind is actually Dirk Kuyt!!!!
Love it Derek.
And I really hope you get to start a pre-Christmas post with “it’s like I’ve been saying…” when this whole prediction comes true
I’m not saying not to play Depay. I’m saying Depay shouldn’t be treated like a super start on the team and his spot shouldn’t be guaranteed. The guy have gained weight and hasn’t been playing for his club for ever and even when he gets his chance, he does not convince. Have you noticed what happen when Depay is injured? Now Van Gall have decide to bring these 2 clowns (Jensen and Weghorts) on the team as strikers. Are you killing me? To Wilson’s point, you need some type of rotation in case other players got injured. You put the team we had on the field against Belgium in the world Cup, we are done. FOR THIS POINT ON, NO NEED TO KEEP ARGUING, LET’S ALL WAIT FOR THE WORLD CUP AND SEE.
So you don’t want to guarantee Depay’s spot, but then you come out and say that all his possible replacements are clowns.
Depay might have gained weight, but it’s muscle not fat.
Can you post here Memphis weight over the years? Clearly you have the stats? Maybe the progression of his weight in the past 8 years, please?
Our main alternatives for Memphis (Malen and Danjuma) were injured. I think Danjuma will come good for us in Qatar
There are much better alternatives and even when they were available, they were never picked. Jan still didn’t answer my question. Why Van Gall would not start Malacia on Sunday when Blin have already played against Poland? Van Gaal is trying everything to accommodate Blin. I like Blin but I think he past his time and he needs to be our back up LB. Let’s all wait an see.
Who? Name names. Not Depay, not Weghorst, not Jannsenn. Who? I’m curious who you think is in the pool of strikers.
I don’t know the answer here Jean. I’d love to see more of Malacia as well. But I trust that Van Gaal has more football intelligence than you and I together, so he will have his reasons. It’s probably to have consistency. It seems Daley is part of Van Gaal’s starting line up and I think a lot of people with know how of football in The Netherlands would agree.
@ Derekvdberg 91
I felt like I had to respond to this.
“The worst part of this witch hunt is that at this point if Holland were to make the World Cup Final and you had to pick between us winning and Blind getting the winning assist, or us losing and Blind causing the blunder, I think you’d pick us losing so that you’d get to use your favourite line “It’s like I’ve been saying..”
You put this in a scenario. NT makes it to a final on the back of hard work and due diligence of the team only to get pegged in the final as a result of Blind’s technical fault. What do you expect. To swallow it down the gut pretending it was never meant to happen. There will be outrage criticism because its is expected but still he gets the preference.
Now Compare this to that of that crucial mistake by De ligt vs Czech in the euros. No body expected it to happen but it transpired. this can be accepted and exempted. Nobody is perfect.
But With Blind the stakes are high and even higher now of him stumbling and to see it happening on critical juncture or on the final hurdle will be tragic when he is knowingly being accommodated with both his flawed and strength attributes. So It’s very simple, you have to expect and accept both its consequence and outcome in any case. This is no way the same or can be categorized the same as with respect to De ligt example or in context to ” every defender makes mistake”.
From tactically point of view which you and Jan have been mentioning in context to ” needed when required”. Malacia to start with team that has tricky wingers and if not Blind, this My friend is playing poker given at a crucial stage it can make a difference from psychological point of view (confidence level, rhythmic flow, chemistry). this is why I said he should be getting as much minutes as possible because he is lacking that playing with first team players and which cannot be necessarily achieved in training sessions.
Re: If we play against a country with a fast right winger, he might decide not to play Blind.
If your statement does not suggest player accomodation, I don’t know what does.
I know Wilson have touched some on this but I just can’t let it go and have to piggyback on his sentiments.
Your statement suggests that you know quite well, like I, and of course, Lvg, that Blind is so devoid of required quality that he can’t be trusted when the big boys come to town.
And yet, here you are in full support of him been played day in day out, whilst the poor guy, who most likely will be thrown into the wolfs lair, scramble for minutes even against the minnows. Is this a fair treatment of your players? I mean, what is so special about a slow and aging defender who needs to be protected(accommodated) when SXXT hits the fan? Help me understand, please. And please, don’t tell me about how he’s been played by every coach we’ve had. He is the ONLY one that has being given any chance. Even on his last legs, things still remain the same. And judgment by this football experts count for nought where there is groupthink and bias involved.
In terms of the word spite, I will have to say that I will stick to my guns in relation to Dutch management. They are a spiteful bunch.
Your attempt to make this an all-encompassing Dutch cultural problem is quite telling. I’m neither Dutch nor live in Netherlands but I will go out on a limb here that majority of the people there wants Karsdorp on that team and an alternative for Blind, given a chance. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
So all the traits and flaws you so broadly painted the entire country, has been proven without a doubt that it exists within a controlled group in the form of Dutch management. Spite simply means a wilful decision to annoy or offend someone. And they have enough of that to dish at the commoners.
You must be quite aware the pedestal that oranje ex-players and coaches place themselves. The statement about the 30million coaches is borne out of this disdain and resentment for the lay man who in their eyes could only be a spectator. A fan’s or media take can’t possibly be right and should be proven wrong at even the most extreme way. Even if you have to leave out one of the best right back in Europe because your populace clamours for his inclusion. Even when you don’t have a suitable backup for that position. SPITE.
I’ll jump in here.
I am Dutch, and live partially in Holland, and the majority of people I talk to like having Blind in there.
Re:The second Blind retires Malacia will have the spot…
It is not a monarchy 🤣🤣 Great football organizations base their selection on merits not entitlement.
This is something else I picked from your previous post which left me saying huhhhhhh
“If there are multiple options for one spot, and I mean truly comparable options, then LVG will look at 1) status in Oranje, 2) experience, 3) fit with other players.”
Rensch over hateboer. I’m just interested how it applies here.
Status – Hateboer was absent for a while due to injury. Rensch has been with Oranje for quite some time (Before the euros) so both have the status
Experience – Hateboer has more experience.
Fit with other players – Rensch has 7 team mates in the squad, Hans only 1.
But most importantly. I think LVG (and me) don’t rate Hateboer as being similar in skill as Rensch.
Hateboer has repeatedly demonstrated that Oranje is a level too high for him.
I know Emmanual will start jumping here but I’m just looking at the selection merits.
It doesnt matter whether you are starter at highly competteive plastic money club van gaal is determind to accomodate Daley Blind.Blind lost his spot to luke shaw and luke shaw lost his spot to malacia at manutd.; i agree that blind is good but at present he is second behind malacia.. 532 is suitable for weakness of blind at defense…lvg knows this ., at best we can hope is that lvg starts malacia when we face heavyweights..
@wilson i prefer Rensch,karsdorp,Frimpong at RB..but i can be okay with dumfries too…but hateboer is never orange material.:he is a joke..
@Jan, I don’t know what it’s like for you. But none of my Dutch friends have this “sack culture” or complaining culture. We’re not looking for managers heads after a few bad games. This blog is the only place where I see true hatred for managers and selections, which is typically something I associate with American sports or British football. I think the Blind tenure was the only time people were truly angry, and that was just because we missed two international events.
Yep, I agree. It must be a cultural thing.
@Jan – I have been following your blog for a few years and I am thrilled each time I see a post. I am a huge fan of the tactical breakdowns you give as well as the in depth knowledge of the vibes in the player camps. On the flipside, I am sooooo tired of these comments from some of these people. Kudo’s to you for your patience. It must be exhausting to give a direct response with actual stats, quotes etc from you only to have them rebuttal by deflecting and/or using an unjustified claim (daddy blind is the reason for daleys inclusion). I would love for these guys to use stats for once in their life.
@Wilson @Jean – You 2 are the most consistently arrogant people I have come across. It is to the point that Jan has created entire blog posts to point out how you both have ZERO qualifications or experience when compared to the TOP players and managers in Holland. However, you both don’t have the ability to even consider that you are anything less than correct. Have either of you ever considered that someone who has made an extremely successful career in soccer may know more than you? Have you ever considered that you are not all-knowing and always correct? Maybe you can take two seconds to be humble for once and realize the reason you are behind a computer and not the Netherlands bench is because you are not as smart as you think you are. You both are having an extremely negative impact on this community because of how extremely arrogant you both are. Take a look at yourself for once because we all know how much you love to criticize everyone except yourself. To be honest, I am shocked that you both are so arrogant that you do not even realize how angry you make some of the community members. Most of us are here because we love our national team and want to bond on supporting them. (Now i know your response will be that criticism is part of being a fan and I agree. However, you do not criticize, you make statements about daddy blind and spite etc. If you were criticizing you would address facts like daley blind has the most assists for us, or the fact that Van Gaal hasnt lost a game yet so he is obviously doing something correct).
Hi guys, just a few days not checking the blog and I came back and enjoy the heated discussion here 🙂 So much to catch up. Should we discuss more about stats in this post? 🙂
One stat looks odd to me is the number of minutes played by the two full backs. Dumfries and Blind clocked the first and third most minutes. This means no rotation for those two positions. As Jan posted “The impact of the full backs is also visible in the xG Chain stats.” I think we over rely on those two players. I hope LVG does practice other options in next friendlies.
It’s not unusual to question coaches decisions. You don’t do that simply because you don’t understand the game. I still think it was the wrong decision for Van Marvrik to play with 2 defensive mid against Spain in the 2010 final. I think we should have played with Van Bomel and Van Der Vart. Second: Recently Man City has lost against Real and I think it was a poor decision from Guardiola not to shut down the game at that point. If it was Joze Maurino, the outcome would have been totally different. So I can question a coach decision. As far as Blin, I think Blin past his prime. I’m not saying not bring him to the WC but he needs to coming of the bench and Malacia should be our starter and I’m going to stand by it. The is way too slow and provide very little crosses.
As long as you realise that:
– lots of these comments come with the benefit of hindsight
– a lot of info which brings a coach to decide something are not available to us
When I was active in advertising, I always said to people who judged commercials: did you see the briefing?
Same with football. You can criticise Kuyt, for instance, but do you know what the tasks were the coach gave him? No, you don’t.
@Jean I totally agree. As fans we can question coaching decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Jan does a great job of analyzing past performances and i think we all enjoy that.
The intent of my message is not to stop you or anyone else from sharing their own opinion but rather how you have chosen to share your opinion. Theres two main points I see as negatives to the fan base.
First: Are you willing to have an open mind?
-If you are saying blind doesnt put in enough crosses, then blind should not have many assists. However he is leading us in assists. Perhaps he chooses to put in fewer crosses but the ones he chooses to cross are of higher quality, thereby allowing us to retain possession instead of tossing low percentage crosses that are aimless. Are there any facts or anything blind can do to change your mind on him? (Btw I really like malacia and want to see him get minutes so I am not a blind fan boy but I still recognize blinds value and weaknesses)
Second: Do you have to approach your criticism with a negative view or can you choose to be positive in your criticism?
-There seems to be a lot of insults about the players, insulting weghorst and Janssen by calling them clowns or tons of doom and gloom statements (we are done for, we have no talent etc) rather than presenting a critique and solution. For example lets talk about how our team plays when we choose an target man like weghorst vs a counterattacking threat like bergwijn/malen etc. Maybe instead of insulting the players who give everything to the program you could choose to ackowledge their limitations without the extreme negativity? Perhaps being unbeaten since Van Gaal came back does not warrant you to draw such extreme negativity towards our players, team and coaching staff. Will we win the WC? Probably not as the odds to do so are low. But we have a team with some elite players, great cohesiveness, a coach who is currently producing positive results. Why the need to be so negative about our players and team that we love? I know im here to support and connect with other people who love this team. I hope its the same for you too.
@jean @wilson I really love this community and both of you contribute some great comments that I love reading. Sometimes I just feel too much negativity towards the team we all love.
I appreciate this Anthony. You have voiced it really well.
One of the reason we play 5/3/2 is to have a numerical advantage in attack. Most of the time Blin has the ball he plays it backwards. Now if he’s not penetrating and he’s not crossing on top of that he is slow, at his age, what is that obsession about? Blin is not David Alaba, he is not Marcelo, I don’t know why the obsession. LOL
Jean, again, you demonstrate to have no real knowledge of football…
Look at the link below.
“Re: If we play against a country with a fast right winger, he might decide not to play Blind.
If your statement does not suggest player accomodation, I don’t know what does.”
In football, this is called tactics. Ajax once played against a team with strong headers, and Ajax’ defence didn’t have any good headers. JC was the coach. Question he got: How do you deal with corners? JC: Simple, we won’t give any away.”
This is tactics mate. If you play versus Liverpool with a high back line, you play a fast player up top. So you can use their weakness.
“I know Wilson have touched some on this but I just can’t let it go and have to piggyback on his sentiments.”
No need to announce this. We all can see that you can’t let things go.
“And yet, here you are in full support of him been played day in day out, whilst the poor guy, who most likely will be thrown into the wolfs lair, scramble for minutes even against the minnows.”
No I don’t. I have said numerous times here that I believe Malacia is now the man. We finally have a strong replacement for Blind. Wijndal and Bakker (or Diks) are not there yet. I love Blind, and I think he needs to come to the WC but Malacia is the future.
“And judgment by this football experts count for nought where there is groupthink and bias involved.”
And you are the authority on this? You think all football experts suffer from mass psychosis? Are you not mirroring what Wilson and you (and others) are going through :-)?
“In terms of the word spite, I will have to say that I will stick to my guns in relation to Dutch management. They are a spiteful bunch.”
Noted. I’m sure LVG can’t sleep now.
“Your attempt to make this an all-encompassing Dutch cultural problem is quite telling. I’m neither Dutch nor live in Netherlands but I will go out on a limb here that majority of the people there wants Karsdorp on that team and an alternative for Blind, given a chance. Please correct me if I’m wrong.”
You are correct. I too love to see Karsdorp and Malacia. If you haven’t noticed yet, that is not the problem people have with you and Wilson and others. We are all happy for you to want Veerman or even Henk Veerman of Volendam in the team. We don’t mind whatever fans want. But it’s the ongoing negativity about one player (and his dad) who had a tremendous contribution to Dutch football which starts to piss people off. I’s a witch hunt. I am surprised that Dumfries is not on your radar. He has more loss of possession, more silly fouls and weak build up moves than anyone. But most fans only look at what a player does with the ball. Most players will have it for 3minutes max (unless you’re Messi). No one seems to see what players do without the ball.
“So all the traits and flaws you so broadly painted the entire country, has been proven without a doubt that it exists within a controlled group in the form of Dutch management. Spite simply means a wilful decision to annoy or offend someone. And they have enough of that to dish at the commoners.”
You lost me. Or… better… I lost you. If there was a face palm emoticon, I would put it here. Just utter bullocks.
“You must be quite aware the pedestal that oranje ex-players and coaches place themselves. The statement about the 30million coaches is borne out of this disdain and resentment for the lay man who in their eyes could only be a spectator. A fan’s or media take can’t possibly be right and should be proven wrong at even the most extreme way. Even if you have to leave out one of the best right back in Europe because your populace clamours for his inclusion. Even when you don’t have a suitable backup for that position. SPITE.”
No! As you said, you don’t live in Holland nor are you Dutch. So I don’t think you can claim to know this for a fact. The statement “we have 20 million coaches” is meant to explain that every supporter has his own opinion and every supporter will claim to have knowledge of football. Case in point, look at you. And Wilson.
And that is my biggest issue with these discussions: two people (maybe more) who have no real experience in coaching football at a high level (prove me wrong here), claim to have more insights into why a player (with 90+ caps) is used by a coach with multiple trophies… IT does my head in.
The whole footballing world in Holland is ok with Daley Blind, but two people somewhere on the planet have the insight to say that Van Gaal uses Blind out of spite.
My reaction should actually be: Bwhahahhahhaaaaaa ……
In the light of Anthony and Jan comments about arrogance I want to make a contribution:
I have been trying to post the link below here about the “arrogance” sometimes is used to judge a coach and players.
I have committed this arrogance too. I remember criticizing Van Markwick and Van Gaal for taking Kurt to Euros 2012 and WC 2014 just to see how Kurt played an amazing WC playing in a lot of positions. I said NO MORE.
As a football fan I like to comment, to ask to learn, and raise my opinion, sometimes criticizing coaches and players, but always knowing, that I do it as a fan. And coaches know better. At least, they are there, they have more data. Part of the joy of every sport, is the discussions around it. But we need to be humble.
Here is the link everyone should watch
Is when Roy Kent (Ted Lasso) resigns as TV commentator because he realized that it’s pointless to talk about something you don’t know, because you are not there in the pictch or with the team, but watching and judging in the comfort of the tv!
The scene is priceless!
by kevin “”””One stat looks odd to me is the number of minutes played by the two full backs. Dumfries and Blind clocked the first and third most minutes. This means no rotation for those two positions. As Jan posted “The impact of the full backs is also visible in the xG Chain stats.” I think we over rely on those two players. I hope LVG does practice other options in next friendlies.””””””””””””
thats key,nailed it…why dutch coaches afraid to give chance,if LVG is not doing then who has the balls??
our wing backs are problem ,also lot will depend on fitness of Depay,Malen and Lang,Bergwin,these players are difference makers at front..
how is koopmeiners concussion???how is he doing??
i would be disapointed if malacia didnt start…struijk/Botman didi get called for WC..karsdorp/Frimpong/Rensch any one or two doesnt get call up for WC..
It does not look great now for the forwards as many of them are injured. But maybe they will get back just in time like Robben did in 2010.
“””I have committed this arrogance too. I remember criticizing Van Markwick and Van Gaal for taking Kurt to Euros 2012 and WC 2014 just to see how Kurt played an amazing WC playing in a lot of positions. I said NO MORE.”””””
kuyt had his best performance for NT in 2014 as wing back/mdfeild, partial forward…He was good in 2008 Ec when Roben and robin were injured…
He didnt play 2012EC much games,the problem was Van bommel playing as son in law for inform terrifc strootman by fart van marwijk….
But 2006 and 2010 kuyt played as winger were HE S@#$ked and we s@$2ked..our every passes ended with kuyt..his poor finsihing skills on 1 on 1 vs portugal,i have never seen kuyt dribble passing a GK and scores…because he cannot…We should have played
at 2006 Roben—–Nestelrooy—-Vanpersie
at 2010 WC final
————–Nijel de jong————
beacuse 2010,2008,2012,2014 team doesnt EXSIST with out Nijel Dejong ,you cannot take him off the feild….the moment you take him we collapse at defense…..
Yeah Tiju I remember those days when you hated Kuyt’s guts and every post you wrote those years was against him 😂😂!!
By the way, How come you don’t use Tiju as your name anymore my friend ?
@alaa…My problem was not just kuyt, mainly Van marwijk who was responsible for that…it really made piss me of when i saw kuyt for vaart…and his back pass after a beautiful moves form RVP,Roben,Vaart/sneijder .that was ugly for me .When LVG started using him wing back,midfeid i never had problem with that..kuyt cost us 2010 and 2006 ..two WCs..and those coaches cost us too who played him for vaart.but LVG played him where he belonged To some extend Van bommel for strootman at 2012..
though officially my name is Tiju…i dont like that name
Yeah starting Kuyt ahead of a top Ruud Van nistelrooy in 2006 against Portugal was a criminal act by Van Basten, the amount of chances he wasted that van nistelrooy could’ve easily scored was ridiculous!!!! I loved Kuyt in 2014 and he was one of Van Gaals secret weapons but I will never get over his 2006 second round game vs Portugal (the team we detest the most and we have problems always against) when you had on the bench a super striker Ruud!!!!
It’s really funny. The way some of these guys operate is how I run my FIFA teams. I don’t like Blind, Berghuis and Klaassen, they’re not my type of player, so when I play FIFA as Ajax, the first thing I do is sell them, I sell Tadic. I promote Hansen, van Axel Dongen, Regeer and Baas into the team. Brobbey is my centre forward, Kudus my 10. I sign Simons. And I have a team that is full of skillful teenagers. In 5 years their FIFA stats increase and they’re all the best players in the world. When Zivkovic was an Ajax talent, I used to promote him to the squad right away over Sigthorson or whoever was there.
But, as an Ajax fan, I love those guys. I want them in the squad because they’re experienced. I don’t want Baas to play against Liverpool, even if he’s got a lot of potential, because he’ll get torn apart. I don’t want Brobbey in there right now, because he can’t seem to find the net.
I’m the same way with Holland. I’d love to just kick out all the old guys and field a team of 17 year olds who can all do elasticos and rabonas. But I also want to see Holland with a chance of winning. So, when it comes to Blind vs Malacia in a high pressure situation like a World Cup Knockout match, I’m gonna take the guy with over 90 International Caps, who has started more Champions League games than Malacia has started regular season games. Can Malacia tear up the left wing? Probably. Do I think he can have a mental lapse in a high intensity game. Also yes. Do I understand Blind is slow? Yes. Do I think over a series of 7 games he’s less prone to mistakes than Malacia? Yes.
Firstly Warm greetings and then in response to your labelling us ” arrogant people”. What you call arrogance is actually a depression. Just so to let you know, I sleep, wake, eat, drink, shit, piss with this blog on and with few other sites as well. I try to keep my self informative reading as much as I can do and watch games as well to track player performance. Every morning when I open my eyes, starts with this blog and finishes with it when I close my eyes to go to sleep. As much as to it, im also dreaming when I’m sleeping thinking when will come the day when the jury or who ever will get it right and hit the bulls eye.At work this blog and few others are open through out the day until I knock off in the afternoon to go home. This is how addicted I have become and only because of my bucket list of witnessing orange win the World cup for once and all.
As fans here, there or anywhere for that matter what we thrust out, cry, say, demand, view will never have any impact to the team and it’s affairs so it’s no use pointing out here what we know or what we don’t know. the best part about this forums/ blog is that it gives us the opportunity to discuss, disect, analyse,finger point at different aspects of dutch football at a FAN BASE LEVEL including where it has always gone wrong or is going wrong. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about believing whats happening is in the best intrest and joining the bandwagon. Van gaal failed probably with the best if not the greatest of the orange generations. Emphasis here even the best can stumble and be wrong.
I also dont want to start cutting and pasting critics, comments, of the exact debate of what happening here from other sites to justify or prove there are people out there who share the same sentiment as being pointed out here and what you label it as arroagance and having negative impact . One of the Facebook dutch fan page had veermans picture posted with caption should he be in the squad or not and Most said yes. The one name that came up shouldn’t be was klaassen. So my friend you see and I also said this to Derekvdberg91 as well. Stop leaving in a closet, there is more to it outside.
On your specific point on how to choose to share you opinon, my friend frustrations, anger, disappointments doesnt come in the form of like writing a love letter to your girlfriend especially when the history shows they have shot themselves in their own foot time and time again.
you think we are not analysing the games when we are watching and only Jan ( no offense) can do in depth analyse and tatical break downs or only he is an expert in this. What happened to him ( argument sake) having ZERO QUALIFICATION OR EXPERIENCE WHEN COMPARED TO TOP PLAYERS AND MANAGERS IN HOLLAND. it’s fair If you dont watch the games and you want to come here to read his analyses, you are entitled to do so and how you want to show your emotions based on it. You cant expect the same for everybody. I remember when NT lost to Czech in the euros QF and and ususlly it was debated in the aftermath here, Jan was continually trying to defend FDB and his selection and the that the loss was nothing to do with him. But then from a tatically point of view it was also very clear he didn’t knew what to do after red card and got it all wrong after wards.
Lastly coming to stats. I think Kevin has hit a very good point above. The stats looks good because of the minutes played and nothing else. What is this suppose to mean, Blind surpasses expectations in comparison to Malacia who hasn’t clocked much minutes yet or Malacia cannot assist. In context to Jans comment on Malacia needed when required? I have given the technical reasons above why this shouldnt be done and is a gamble from a cohesion point of view. (FAMILIARITY 😁😁) For Dumfries the only real competition that someone could give him was karsdorp and his ommission still remains a mystery injuries aside and for Resnch why is in the squad also remains a mystery. Just going back to what Jan said on this. Hateboer has repeatedly demonstrated that orange is a level too high for him. I just want to say here when did Resnch show he is a orange level player and what did he do that merits his selection. So Hateboer fits criteria 1 and 2, status in orange and experience while Rensch fits C3, fits with other players.( Ajax contingent). Then comes the criteria 4 which all of a sudden is the most important one and whuch can supersede all other criterias. Van Gaal. This is story of dutch football atm and what causes THE DEPRESSION
Your posts always remind me of when I was in university, and there’d be a question on the exam that I didn’t know an answer to, so I’d just write as much as I could down and try to use as many technical words as possible and pray for part marks.
I use to do that as well. But was always out side of the box thinker.
“The mitochondria is NOT the power house of the cell. The power house is the Golgi Body, and it tells the mitochondria what to do. Everyone knows this.”
I hope you ll believe me when I say I have zero editorial influence on the VI site.
Today, they posted this article, about young talented left back Gijs Smal (nickname: Smaldini) of FC Twente. One of the things this Volendam talent says in his interview: “I watch him play, with awe. He’s always approached with criticism on his weak points, he is always under a magnifying glass, always about his speed. That annoys me. That guy has demonstrated his quality so often. Ajax won the title every year when Blind was there. Then he left, and Ajax didn’t win the title. And when he returned, so did the titles. Someone like him deserves respect.”
@wilson I think you have sidestepped the entire intent of my comment.
I think we would all love to hear your opinion’s when it comes to talking about our tactics etc. Lets analyze our performances and see where we exploited our opposition and where we were left exposed. I know how much time you dedicate to following this team and sport – especially when you comment on performances of developing young players on lesser known teams (don’t mistake that you are not the only one who “pisses” with this blog and others).
It’s just exhausting to hear insults hurled at players (rather than critiques), conspiracy theories about player selection, and how you seem to think youre always right with no chance of having an open mind to say that maybe your opinion is wrong and could change.
Maybe you see things different than me and want to respond. Then after maybe its best to get back to talking soccer?
I follow the canadian national team and they have changed the entire program based on the coaching philosophy of brotherhood. We no longer choose the best players but choose the best team and we leave off players who dont fit the culture we are trying to build – it has worked phenomenally. van Gaal is building a culture within this team and I get the feeling that karsdorp doesnt fit the culture as well as rensch does.
Blind certainly fits the culture and makes the players around him better. I think without acknowledging his intangibles and what he contributes when he is outside the direct play (communicating to other players, leadership, experience, creating space, awareness etc) it becomes easier to critique his selection. Once you start appreciating these intangibles, then accepting his weakness (speed) becomes easier to do – especially when van Gaal has created a system to hide his weakness and embrace his skills (ex. malacia playing lcb and blind staying lwb). I’m excited for the day we see malacia as a starter but I see the merit in going with blind for a short tournament.
Why doing all of that just to accommodate one guy that is no longer in his prime and when you have better players that can do the job. This is my last comment on Blin. I think we should all stop talking about this team selection and just wait for the WC. Thanks!
I’m confused/ intrigued/ defused so please correct me here. When you are a dutch player how can you not be knowing the ” Dutch culture” in context to NT. I mean they all start their careers in eredivisie playing the dutch style then moving abroad, transition from various NT levels ,JO and they still have to have that “specific Dutch culture” of playing at Ajax ( im guessing here) and and only van gaal and co gets to decide who fits in that specific” Dutch culture” if playing for another club or in any other circumstances for that matter
My friend all this comes around and back to square 1 and I hope im havent veered of the road here but this is the same thing that is being disussed here. Who,how why
Karsdorp, feyenoord, De klasseiker, how can he be labelled as not knowing “dutch culture”. Im just trying to read between the lines here. Once again Van Gaal doesnt know him as he has played under Danny Blind only. So once again just because Danny Blind thinks he doesn’t fit that ” specific Dutch culture” from his last outings or whatever,how many years ago, he still shouldn’t be called up todate even though he has evolved at Roma into one the best RBs and van gaal as a head coach excepts it. I know its no use talking about this now as he is injured but this goes all the way back when he was being ignored and emphasis on the window being missed to build on formidable depth and quality backup
this has been repeated time time again and for the sake of those who don’t like reading repetitions here, Not everybody is blind out there to see this is nothing to do with ” Dutch culture” but personal and out outside the scope of football. You seriously think rensch can coverup for dumfries if he gets injured come knock out stages. Most probably Timber will get the nod which will labelled as a tatical move and how this affects the teams balance compared to Dumfries in it.????? I will once again say this Van gaal may be best tatical coach out there but if on a day the oponents come tatically flaw less he will just be like any other coach standing on sidelines. This is where player head to head becomes absolutely critical and decsive. Can do the maths here.
Again performance should speak the loudest and this can be only be achieved simply through healthy rotation and not necessarily looking at some stats, this criteria or that criteria, injured then, injured now, not playing enough, with respect different player. Unfortunately this is not a feature under van gaal and hope things will change under koeman with rotation on the cards and looking at others who are knocking on the door.
Blind certainly fits the culture and makes the players around him better.”
Needs protection and puts unnecessary pessure on players around him if caught out. If instructed or forced back I have already mentioned about how it affects the team particular on his flank. Again from critical juncture point of view as playing in a SF of final this becomes very decsive
“I think without acknowledging his intangibles and what he contributes when he is outside the direct play (communicating to other players, leadership, experience, creating space, awareness etc) it becomes easier to critique his selection. Once you start appreciating these intangibles, then accepting his weakness (speed) becomes easier to do – especially when van Gaal has created a system to hide his weakness and embrace his skills”
I think I have seen him talking and communicating but this doesn’t change the fact his performance is dicated by the tempo of the game and which will affect his performance.
Now in terms of accepting his ” intangibles” over his weakness.
I have been watching Ajax games in eredivisie over the weeks and he had been exposed alot times out cold, but fortunately for them due to lack of quality players in the oponents, it has often goen unpunished. Vs heerenveen Van Mwijk one specific game if you want to look at and it is depressing to watch that he is a starter in NT. Raising doubts and question marks.
be mindfull here it’s about who should be starting here and not his selection.
My brother works in football in my home country, and he told me that a coach friend of him asked to Luis Aragonés or Del Bosque (I don’t remember who) the reason of the success of the Spain national team and his answer was “letting go Raul from the team.”
Raul could be the best player in Spain, but it looks like he was not a good team member.
The environment in the team it’s key. That’s why sometimes it’s good the let go players that are toxic, no matter how good they are.
He also paid the price in 2014 for not letting and sticking to the winning 2010 & 2012 squad for too long. Just like Bert van Mawjik in 2012.
Raul had to go because of the coming up of the golden Barcelona Catalonia generation and passed his prime as well. Torres ( Liverpool) and villa ( Barcelona) were at the time were next in line and ready to succeed him. If I’m not wrong Raul was at schalke at that time playing along side huntelaar.
In what context are you saying toxic players need to go no matter how good they are??
Did you see what did you just did?
I was talking about how we need to be humble when we criticize and in you reply you say Bert Fart Markwij!
How can you say Fart to an amazing coach that lead us to a final in 2010??? For good sake!
You are free to have your options but men…. “Fart”? Really? You are still feel so superior to BVM that you feel you can call him fart?
Again my friend, what happened this video:
When is see a team ,i first check their coach and his philosphy and style then results..I prefer coaches like Van gaal etc…i feel coaches are more responsible for the result as they call the shots…Basic thing of football is select the right players on merit ,then you implemnet your philiosophy …i couldnot stand Van marwijk for several reason..Even great Johan cryuff wanted spain to win WC 2010..i consider thats the darkest era of dutch football with most potent dutch team…Van marwiijk was rding on the talents of Roben,RVP,Senijder,Nijel Dejong even Joris mathijenson…i would add Vaart,ooijer,Van bronkhost etc..why beacuse
1–Even in friendly matches he didnt gave enough cahnce to new players.
2—He used the least number of p[layers in qualification.
3–He kept on playing Kuyt over vaart..which was stright murder
4–by 2012 Van bommel declined a lot and he still kept playing him for strootman who was in form of his life,also van ginkel was in hell of form.i feel thats an injustice
5–He never developed a LB in NT for Gio vani who was retired after 2010…
6–2010 Wc he had the easiest path to final except a mediocre Brazil at quarter..still he couldnt win..Poor performance
7–in 2012 due to lack of proper LB and lack of work rate in midfeild due to van bommel He GOT DESERVEDLY a@#sWHOOOPED vs Germany and portugal and Denmark..i was having war with some one over here as i was predicting a humiliation for dutch…
8–he left the team in shambles
..key note….The same team with unfit sneijder and aged RVP/Roben under LVG almost got us to final if there no AS@@ tearing tackle from Macherano…Kuyt played where he belonged,Van gaal benched kuyt..addded work horse De guzman wit De jong..wijnaldum was work horse…De vrij was was good…all these players were available in 2012 EC too…Fart van is pragmatic naive coach…what he did to a beautiful football country is a crime…
Noa lang is back to training. Frim pong played as right winger against bayern exhibiting his explosive pace just missed out om a goal.
Quincy promes seems to be piling up goals in Russia. 8 goals in 10 games.
Was checking the Russian premier league.
Between Rensch and Frimpong, who do you guys think are better and should be back-up to Dumfries? For me, the only time I see Rensch against top opponent was when he faced up to Luis Diaz against Liverpool. I think he did generally well. I would think Rensch is better than Frimpong at this moment; he is tactically smarter > Frimpong though Frimpong has a better pace.
Did you watch that game?
Vs Liverpool. Yes. Rensch did generally well.
I can’t comment as I haven’t seen enough of Frimpong. I know he’s great on the ball, you can see snippets of his runs and assists, but in order to really judge him you need to watch him for 90 minutes. How does he do without the ball.
Rensch is still vulnerable, defensively (logical, due to his age) but LVG might decide in his favour due to the number of Ajax players. His rapport with Berghuis is good and I expect him to play well with Timber along side him. Getting Frimpong to get used to the partnership is risky, what with the limited time pre World Cup
What happened to his case at one knows?
What happened to his case. Anyone knows.
Still being investigated. I think there is very strong evidence he is a bad boy. But the Dutch court system is terribly behind.
May have slipped under the radar. Cocu appointed vitesse coach
Here is an article in ESPN which analyses all the favourites of worldcup 2022 including Netherlands.
Dear Wilson, you are mixing up some things here. There is a bit of miscommunication going on.
When we talk about culture (as in football culture) we talk about a set of rules or unspoken codes or ideas or concepts that are shared in a group (nation or company or tribe). Look up the actual definition.
These different cultures are fluid.
In football, the typical and exaggerated examples are:
Germany, defensive, hard working, lots of marathon runners.
This was their culture until 2000. Before that Hans Peter Briegle was your typical German, with virtuosos like Schuster or Overath or Muller (Hansi for instance) making the difference.
Italy: Cattenaccio, mean, bad losers.
Again, more archetypes maybe and also an old concept of Italian football. Back in the day, with Gentile and Tardelli and Ancelotti they had players made of steel and with Antonioni or Conte they had some artists.
England: kick and rush, bad pitches, rough tackles and strikers without teeth.
Also not longer relevant these days but this still plays a part in some cases (re: Frank de Boer at Crystal Palace).
Recently Scholes came out to say Man United is a counter team and when van Gaal came to the club and harped on about “his philosophy”, Scholes felt Louis was bound to fail as LVG would go against the Man U culture.
Anyway, Dutch football culture is: dominate possession, play pass and move, use Dutch coaches for the NT. We love our left footed players. Maybe it’s universal but players like Keizer, Van Hanegem, Moulijn, Richard Witschge, Rafael van der Vaart and Daley Blind do get more praise, just because they use their left foot. Even right footed Johan Cruyff started to use his outside left as his go-to foot, when his right ankle gave away, later in his career and JC became an immortal “outside left” player in the minds of the fans.
What you are talking about is not culture, but it’s about players not fitting in the group dynamics and behaviour of one Louis van Gaal.
Some coaches love to work with rebels. Van Hanegem, Cantona, Gascoigne, Schuster, Guti, famous players, who were hard to deal with by the coach. Some coaches love working with these, because despite their difficult nature, they will do the business for you.
Other coaches – Van Gaal – want ideal son-in-law types. Players who have difficulties being part of the team and lovey-dovey positive even when benchwarming (Sneijder, Lang, Karsdorp, Seedorf, Rivaldo) will have difficulties with the narcisist.
Van Gaal does have a point: managing 26 players (all egos and alpha males) and keeping all of them happy is a tough gig. It’s not getting easier if you have a couple of vagabonds in there.
I cannot claim that Karsdorp is one of those actually. I simply don’t know. But in theory, the level of “coachability” of a player, will definitely count in LVG’s overall assessment of a player.
Ask the key players of the 1990 squad or the 2012 squad what went wrong, and they will all say “the waterbearers started to believe they were key for the team”. The hierarchy broke and it usually results in drama.
Does anybody else think that Veltman should get a look in? He’s been superb the last 2 seasons. Watching him against Liverpool today you’d think that he was the 75 million pound man and not Van dijk.
i feel we will end up with these players for WC
Am I allowed to assume that the football professors here have seen PSV and Ajax play?
Veerman in Oranje? I assume this discussion can be shelved now. You saw what LVG sees in most matches.
Daley Blind is useless? Even in a mediocre Ajax he excels with his vertical passes. Under pressure.
Just watch the highlights of yesterday’s game. It tells the story. End of discussion.
watched first 50 minutes of each match…Blind was excellent.Veerman lacks the work rate,he disapears just like Danjuma..he is a talent though…PSV will not finish above ajax,Feynoord and Az alkmaar..thats gurenteed…Ruud Van nestel rooy is a poor coach just liek Ole gunnar …
Wake up your post and my dear lord if this is really the case then God bless Dutch football.
Maybe I am because I’m not Dutch but the things that you have said is the exact reason why the Dutch football is stuck in the past and not evolving.
” When we talk about culture (as in football culture) we talk about a set of rules or unspoken codes or ideas or concepts that are shared in a group (nation or company or tribe). Look up the actual definition”
I find this as in insult and I hope you don’t say this into front of a professional or any level soccer player because this would like challenging their credibity. In other words it’s the same thing as if you play for Ajax,you are undisputed and those who who don’t can not come and fit in the system better. Now I can understand simply what you mean is for example if talyor and berghuis is both playing together, they will know when to pass, where to be etc. But question here from NT point of view is this,berghuis, klaassen.They are not players who can create something out of nothing, average in creativity neither shown a good consistency level and are dictated by the tempo of the game.whats the use of having this group there then.
In context to Ajax group like I have always said if you take out those technical players ( non Dutch) out from the setup then they are never the same and no longer in their comfort zone. when they come up to NT they are on their own like any one else.
Now if you have to compare this same situation/ strategy to the German Bayern contingent for example, sane, Muller musiala, gnabry, klimmch then they already have that formabilable bonding playing together for both club and country and exceptional players in their own rights. For the Ajax contingent in NT it’s “SUBJECT TO”.once again the caliber of players that klaassen and berghuis are ” that strategy is a big question mark”. And then you look from the minutes they will play TOGETHER, point of view again it points in the same direction ” flop strategy” I mean it’s high likely it will be gakpo in the hole with double pivot of frenkie and koops. Once again this is where absolutely veerman could have been tried out because he plays in system at PSV and like you said in one of your post without any protection. You can also throw in the argument here given both veerman and gakpo play together can bring the same thing as in context to group, tribe. just saying
This is something I have been very critical about over the years ” benefit of doubt factor” when it comes to Ajax players and when they leave Ajax it goes with it as the next one in line gets it. You see this is how the system works. Perfect example is to that of klaassen under Danny blind when he played him left right and centre but it never yielded anything and it came to his own end. Well this has been evident under van gaal and Danny blind, hopefully under Koeman there will be new breath of fresh in terms of player selection and rotation
In terms of of rules, unspoken codes, concepts, that is training stuff and can be taken care of. I mean look at brazil and other teams who come from playing in different clubs. It’s players making it s better team
“I think without acknowledging his intangibles and what he contributes when he is outside the direct play (communicating to other players, leadership, experience, creating space, awareness etc) it becomes easier to critique his selection
Once you start appreciating these intangibles, then accepting his weakness (speed) becomes easier to do – especially when van Gaal has created a system to hide his
“Why doing all of that just to accommodate one guy that is no longer in his prime and when you have better players that can do the job. This is my last comment on Blin. I think we should all stop talking about this team selection and just wait for the WC. Thanks”
I want to throw some light here which I think will settle the dust.
Is Blind so important to the team that without him the team cannot function as when he is in?
Is there any reason why the the team cannot play back 4.?
Is it in the best interest to sacrifice a winger for an extra defender given there are so many quality option stacked in the forward department?
If you can solve this puzzle you will solve everything.
What you are saying applies to literally every player. Why do you always pick out Blind?
I struggle to understand your point. You say I shouldn’t say this in front of a professional?
I just watched Paul Scholes talk about Man United (before the City derby) and he says this almost literally!! By playing a lot together and keeping the same line up for a series of games, players start to “know” where the other guys will be or where they will run.
You make it as if I am saying something outlandish? This is the whole point of gelling a team together?!?!
I’m puzzled man. Can you try to say it again and more succinct maybe?
There is always something, always an oddity, always something unusual when it comes to the makings and operation of Dutch management.
I would class it as frivolities if there was not so much ego, foolish pride and stubborness involved in creating these atmospheres that oranje have wallowed under for what seem like ages.
And if semantics was to be involved, some would class these oddities as Dutch culture, Dutch stubborness, Dutch pride or what have you.
However, at a closer look, it is quite easy to see that these roundabout explanations of behavioral malpractices and outright inexcusable shenanigans are just what they seem to be; excuses.
And history will support me on this claim. Look no further than the greatest Dutch player of all time and his relation to Oranje. Most players wanted him to lead the team in the 1990 world Cup but Michels found a way to shoo-in Beenhakker which was the catalyst of the disaster that was that wc campaign. Many claim that Michels was worried about JC winning a world Cup and overshadowing his Euro triumph just two years earlier(did somebody say spite)
And then come the appointment of Advocaat after the woeful tenure of Danny Blind.
Before this, Henk ten Cate, an excellent choice, but essentially an outsider of the establishment has been promised the job in principle by Director van Breuklen. And of course he reneged as he was always won’t to. Too big a leap to make. Too radical a move to make against the jury.
And so did Koeman suffer the same fate against the hapless FDB. Even a blind man would have chosen Koeman over FDB. But true to form, the power that be found a way to bungled that and we all know how the Dutch public paid for this decision in the last Euros.
These as you can tell are not isolated incidents. The knvb is propelled and instigated by petty vendettas, shameless vengeance, arbitrary actions and wanton spite. Small, small men who have created a culture and atmosphere, conducive to their characters, and now seem to thrive, albeit negatively in their element.
It has nothing to do with being Dutch. It’s just this group of excellent ex-players who have formed a cabal that have been barricaded from “outsiders” in line with club affiliations and petty nonsense.
And of course, the rot of an organization, like a fish, starts at its head. The rest of the body in the form of players would suffer the fate of decay that ten Cate, Koeman and even JC suffered in respective times.
They would then be labelled and ostracized. “Hard to work with” “not a team player” “doesn’t know the Ajax drill” and so on and so forth of that slush.
But at a closer look, you will find it’s not Henk Cates fault nor is it Karsdorp’s tattoos nor does Blind make any noticeable difference in Oranje. It has always been these man-made rules, regulations and ego trips heaped on unsuspecting men who most times are not even left with a chance at redemption.
And as such with bad leadership, we all pay a price. Even a trophy cabinet that huff and puff under a sediment of layered dust.
I will agree to that history part. I was thinking about it to counter the stats claim but man you have summed it up to the bone. Well said
Interesting points and I actually agree with you on the KNVB decision making. That indeed is a vipers nest with friendly connections etc.
This comes ON TOP OF that Dutch culture and mentality.
There are numerous examples of the KNVB appointing the “safe option” yes.
However, where you are wrong: It is not a cabal of ex players who are responsible for this! The KNVB is made up of wannabe football people who were accountants or lawyers or something like that.
The only exeption being Hans van Breukelen, who has made a complete and utter fool of himself post-career by being an Anthony Robbins type positivo guru and author with nothing but failures to his name. But Bert van Oostveen, Gudde, Decosseaux,Gijs de Jong are NOT ex players.
Watching the Manchester derby. Hard to believe Ake has never been tried in that holding role seeing his discipline, occasional bursts from defence and the transitional fluidity he could have provided.
Yet we have Malacia being experimented as LCB to accomodate boy wonder.
On a side note, Erling Haarland is a serious problem.
Nah…Ake was playing as LCB at centre..he was not holding mid..city out played Manutd…Malacia got molested so was Dalot…
Sorry mate, Malacia was used to stop De Bruyne. Because he was a better option. BLind is also not used as a pinchhitter. Weghorst is. Nothing to do with BLind.
Ake has played as holding mid at Bournemouth and Chelsea before.
@wilson Is Blind so important to the team that without him the team cannot function as when he is in?
– what a nonsense question. no one is saying blind is so vital that we cannot function without him. The real question is “does blind improve the team more than the alternative”. Based on him leading us in assists and our win record with van gaal, I’m inclined to say that having him in the team has worked. If he was so terrible then why are we undefeated with van gaals system? The nonsense question to counter your question is “is blind so terrible that the team cannot function if he plays?”
Is there any reason why the the team cannot play back 4.?
-again what a nonsense question. Of course we can play with a back 4,5,2,10. Whatever we decide. Van gaal has chosen a system where we play 5 and again it’s worked. Why would we want to go to a back four when our strongest position is cb, plus we are getting positive results. Why are you so critical of van gaals system when we are getting the results we are? In hindsight, which games were we hindered by a back 5? Which results do you think would have been more favourable if we played your system vs van gaals?
Is it in the best interest to sacrifice a winger for an extra defender given there are so many quality option stacked in the forward department?
– as our results show, yes it is in the best interest of the team. Again, our strongest position is cb. If you’re saying we need to choose a forward over a defender because we are stacked at forward, you should consider how stacked we are with defenders.
Just to clear things up, we’re not playing a 5-3-2 to accommodate Blind. We’re playing a 5-3-2 because we have world talents Van Dijk, De Vrij, de Ligt, Timber and Ake all as CB’s and we’re trying to get as many of our talents into the squad as possible. If we were to instead play 4-3-3, we’d be doing what, trading Ake for an extra winger (Berghuis).
Any PSV fan here that can explain me what is going on?
When Marcel Brands left the club few years ago, I had the impression the team lost his north. PSV started improvising buying a lot of players. Instead of a team they become a international players collection without any identity. Neither a great manager as Robert Smith was enough to fix the limbo where the team was.
Marcel Brands returned from Everton and the team found his north again, retuning to his foundation: developing great players, buying the best Dutch players of the eredivisie and bringing good foreigns.
Hence, we have a team with great home developed players: Gakpo, Teze, Obispo, mixed with potential Dutch stars, like Veerman, Simmons, Til and Hoever, Drommel plus adding good foreigns, like Sangare, Max or Savio.
Also they bring back former legends, like Luuk de Jong and Van Nistelroy and Ooijer as coach’s, compensating their lack of experience with an extremely knowledge coach: Fred Rutten as assistant.
So, everything looked great in paper. I was very exited with this project despite I am an Ajax fan.
But the project it doesn’t look good. PSV struggles to win. Yesterday the team was a disaster. Til nothing, Veerman nothing Saibari as usual nothing (I still don’t understand why this player is a estar Ted in this team)
Somebody know what is going on? What are the thoughts in Netherlands?
Luck, Mauro Junior, Madueke (key players) are all still sidelined. No back up for Luuk has come to haunt them bad. basically PSV are now forced to play with Til, simons, as false strikers and when they drop deep nobody is up front. vertessen as well who is more a winger. crosses from the flanks into the box basically goes wasted with nobody to pass to. they basically end up playing 4-4-2 .
I watched the game, the first goal was from a veeerman mistake where he was dispossessed cold, then RVN made decided to bring on his young bench and taking out out veerman, simons,sangare, saibiri which gave Cambur with their super subs to score twice in the last few minutes. that savio guy hasnt lived up to expectation at all . he was brought in to play striker but looks like has a long way to go
RvN as pointed out wont last long
Chill man I said it was a puzzle. I never said it should be done now. secondly the stats looked better as well before in 4-3-3 but the only difference was the wingers were more in the spot ligt than compared to now due to be change ion formation. there aint much in it. before, 7 games played 20 goals and 15 assists while after formation change, 8 played its 19 goals 14 assits
“If he was so terrible then why are we undefeated with van gaals system?
I dont want to be repeating this again and again other ways Derekvdberg91 will say I always repeat to much. I have said this before and the simply answer to this questions is HE NEEDS PROTECTION and for this an extra CB has been accommodated for and hence change in formations has been formulated. its beyond an doubt that if blind starts at Lb ( 4 man backline) he is “ticking time bomb” subject to
you see how we are going in circles here. then comes your argument
“Once you start appreciating his intangibles, then accepting his weakness (speed) becomes easier to do – especially when van Gaal has created a system to hide his weakness and embrace his skills”
as highlighted above
“does blind improve the team more than the alternative”. Based on him leading us in assists and our win record with van gaal, I’m inclined to say that having him in the team has worked”.
stats and games before the change shows it can be which like I said will bring the wingers more into the spot ligt ,but then this puts Blind is a very susceptible situation with no protection at Lb. again as point out above. second part of the question could this have been compensated for with other alternative, the answer is yes, Malacia (recall here the argument needed when requred, doesnt need to play to get better, only vs tricky wingers). also having a wing system where gakpo, Danjuma, Lang, Malen could all have been accommodated without any doubt would have given the team more superiority then having Blind at LWB and his assisting pros. I think people here also have forgotten about Malacia super assist for Weghorst vs wales. so much obsession about Blind’s only.
Note im not saying DO THIS NOW but should have been subject to scuritization when the decision was being made to do so but then ……
City vs United game today confirmed 2 things for me. Ten Hag is mediocre at best and Malacia needs to use his brain in tandem with his very quick feet. Ten Hag sealed it for me when he couldn’t make his Ajax team protect a 3-0 lead with 45 mins left to reach CHL final against an ordinary Tottenham team. He should thank Pep for taking his teams foot off the pedal otherwise the score could have been maybe 10-2. To keep Casemiro in the bench when City is r@ping your team is very inexplicable.
If Blind could transfer some of his brain cells to Malacia we would probably have one of the best defenders in the world.
about to watch the replay.
@Balkan.. “”If Blind could transfer some of his brain cells to Malacia we would probably have one of the best defenders in the world.””” You are ruthless, i am still figuring out how to defend Malacia… Because Malacia is the only hope i had for LB… As winjdal is less than mediocre.. Blind is aging and struggling..
@Wilson and others we dont have a better lbs than blind and Malacia.. Malacia still needs time.. Van gaal is right… Dont bring me up the name of Bekker..
you think I dont know this. dont tell Malacia needs time, go and tell that to Van Gaal and daddy
Did you see the match..?? Dimwit.. Comment after that.. Malacia was. Molested, so was dalot… Eric ten haag had to sub him after 45 minutes.. He had to hide him…
The whole team was molested particularly in the first half he started cautiously but like Kevin the midfield was inside and sevens and De Bryne showed his class terrorizing them in side out and feeding it on the flanks. His yellow card also made it hard got him on those one and one situation where foden easily beat to the goal but you are talking about world class city here.
Shaw was defintely an upgrade for Malacia going forward but that was it. Defensively he looked shaky as well especially when on the counters.
Maybe we should call up Kevin Diks, now Malacia and Blind are both considered rubbish?
Or maybe Dirk Kuyt? Or Zivkovic as left back.
You mean Mitchell dijks. Apparently he got injured in training after switching to vitesse
That article you put of Gijs smal. The guy has good potential. He is good in set pieces as well. Free kicks etc. I remember talking about Jayden oosterwolde who was first choice before him at twente and was making headlines as well. An injury to him gave the opportunity for smal to clock minutes and that’s where he surpassed him. Oosterwolde is currently at Parma in serie B on loan. I hope smal can look or move a step up to a more competitive club to enhance his development. I can understand his remarks about Blind. Similar esque players.
Lang made his injury return of the bench for brugge vs mechelen and had a assist. Fingercrossed he will make the squad based on his outings earlier for NT.
No I meant Diks. Weren’t you promoting him into the NT some years ago?
Kevin diks is RB Jan..your Joke is on wrong side…We have to mange this WC with blind and Malacia…if Blind and Malacia struggles this much,then others has no chance at all..this is high time to conclude that Blind or Malacia neither is perfect but we have no other choice..
Erling Haaland the monster. Are we witnessing the next super star?
This is what wilson you Got a dimwit brain ,,Haaland is same as he used to be in Dortumund..he was a beast there and now is also beast…..DIFFERENCE IS when you feed monster with chance after chance and aisist after assist he will get you goals…MANCITY IS a team creates more chnaces than any other team..WHEN YOU PLACE Haaland you become unbeatable…3 hatricks in few games,i think once haaland leaves Guardiyola team he will be back to Dartumund stage…CITY CREATES INSANE AMOUNT OF CHANCES IN EVERY MATCH…
This is the difference between me and you. At Dortmund no matter how many goals he would have scored, he still would have playing in the shadows ( Neymar mocking him CL) . Now he is playing where he can claim his stardom status
i am curious about Malen and Lang both are needed for NT..Malen was superb for Dortmund ..what an insane goal scored by Noa lang with his won ability…they have pace and trickery and works better..fingers crossed ,hope they make it to WC..
@wilson I am confused why you think we are playing a 5-3-2 just to accommodate blind. You are on this witch hunt for blind. The only justification you have for this claim is that it’s “daddy” who is making these decisions.
Here are some justifications to refute the “daddy” claim.
1. Van gaal is a dictator. Do you honestly believe that this dictator only bows down to one man – danny blind? Van gaal has never done that in his career but you think he is willing to bow down to his assistant just so that daley plays? Why would a man change his core personality to appease “daddy”.
2. Van gaal changed to a back 5 in 2014 and took a mediocre team with a few superstars further than expected. He likes the system and it works – independent of protecting blind.
3. a back 5 provides protection/compensation to get the most out of our players. timber and ake can step into midfield more freely, bergwijn and depay have more freedom to express themselves(they don’t play as traditional wingers or strikers in this system), dumfries can bomb up and down the wing all day and have coverage, and of course, blinds lack of speed is protected. What is so bad about creating a shape that enhances your strengths and covers your weakness? Every team in the world does that. Do you think it’s more likely that we play this shape because it helps more the entire team perform better or is it just to appease “daddy”.
4. We want to utilize our amazing CB list. of course that further makes sense to play with a back 5 so we get one of ake, timber, de ligt, de vrij on the field.
5. As we just saw, malacia is not flawless. based on his performance against city, we would have to accommodate for him as well. It would be in the best interest of the team to play malacia in a back 5 rather than 4.
6. You claim we should have scrutinized the switch to a back 5 when it occurred. I will do you one better, lets scrutinize with perfect hindsight. Undefeated since the switch… it worked! (Lets also acknowledge we played much stronger teams with a back 5 belguim, poland, germany, denmark, wales who are all going to the world cup vs latvia, gibralta, turkey, montenegro, norway in a back 4, where none of these teams are going to the world cup)
I would love to hear why you think these 6 points are wrong but your “daddy” claims are correct. Otherwise, its time to stop the witch hunt. Are you able to have an open mind and consider maybe your “daddy” claims are nonsense?
Good post Anthony. I need a sanity check at times.
As for PSV. It’s important to realise that some billionaire dude took the chair of the Board at PSV and he is a fan. Which comes with the risk of the guy trying to interfere with the technical decisions.
The Board is trying to make ends meet. Financially, PSV is not doing great. So, the club decided that either Gakpo or Sangare should be sold off, for big bucks.
Man United wanted Gakpo but dropped out of the race. Southampton and Leeds were the only clubs making an offer. Gakpo didn’t want to go there and Technical Director John de Jong, who reports into Marcel Brands, the MD, supported this. Better to keep Gakpo for another season, he thought, and get into the CL.
The Board suggested strongly to De Jong to sell Gakpo. De Jong didn’t.
So now they still have the financial woes and not much later PSV is blocked by Rangers and have to settle for Europa League football. The Board decided not to fire De Jong but to send a motion of distrust to the management. Brands wanted to keep De Jong but the former PSV midfielder decided to leave the club, as he didn’t feel he was supported.
Marcel Brands lacked the strength to go against the Board and wasn’t able to convince De Jong to stay.
Ruud van Nistelrooy, apparently, was livid about this. John de Jong is a mate and an ex colleague and team mate. Ruud was not amused.
Add to this that they miss their key attackers (Luuk and Madueke) and they never got a stand in for Luuk de Jong (they have no other striker!!) and the problems are clear to see.
Their defence is mediocre. Their midfield has quality. Their attack is lightweight.
On a good day, Veerman, Simons and Sangare are great. On a bad day, the team is mediocre.
Guus Til is not good enough for the ambitions of PSV. He didn’t do well in Moscow, he didn’t do well in Germany, and he is not doing well at PSV. He lacks quality (first touch, handling speed). What he does have, is hunger, lungs and legs.
He only faired well in the “AZ Slot” style of playing, which is essentially a 4-4-1-1. Til has freedom to run and be active with a couple of solid midfielders as a block behind him. He’ll score goals. He does this for PSV as well. But his overall contribution to the team and the play is limited.
Thanks @Jan and @Wilson for your feedback about PSV. I hope this project goes well. The Duct football needs a strong PSV.
@Anthony, you miss a number 7. We don’t have great players to play 4-3-3. We are lacking of right wingers and striker. We can play 433 with a no so good right wing and a false 9, though. But we have strong players to play 532. Amazing center backs, and creative strikers that enjoy the freedom that a 532 provides them.
Koeman said he wanted the orange be able to play 532 and 433 like it did in 2914, but he couldn’t make it. Every time he played 532 he struggled. He ended playing 433. Smae De Boer if I am not wrong.
Why (or how) Van Gaal implement a system that was so difficult for Koeman or De Boer?
I actually don’t think Malacia was all that terrible. Having seen the player ratings before the match, I expected him to have had a torrid night, but other than Foden’s goal, he didn’t do much wrong.. especially considering how often he was 2 on 1 because Sancho wouldn’t track his man. Even his yellow came because of a hospital pass. He didn’t do much right either, but he certainly wasn’t bossed around like the reviews suggested.
@eduardo I completely agree with #7.
Good question on koeman and de boer and 5-3-2. My lazy answer is that van gaal is a better coach tactically and players are better today than when koeman had them. But that justification feels very lazy indeed. Why do you think it failed? @Jan any insights?