The Danish ate us!!

blog
by Jan

I’m going to keep this brief. It’s almost 4 am and I’m not a happy trooper.

My goodness. We have the best strikers in the world. We couldn’t stop scoring in the qualifications and here we simply can not find the target. AAARRGGHHH…

Let me start by saying that the Danes did really well and are most certainly not the weak side. They were shrewd and they worked hard.

What exactly went wrong with us?

I believe we were a little to cocky and complacent I think. A bit too easy maybe. Denmark played with intensity which I didn’t see from our lads. But other than that, we didn’t do too much wrong. No big blunders, but we simply didn’t demonstrate the hunger and desire one should have at this level.

A second problem I had with our team, is that the field was too long. Our defense ( 4 players) kept at the back too much, against one striker! Van der Wiel had to be invited for seconds to come and overlap (Willems showed much more eagerness) but in general there were too many gaps between our forwards and our midfield. Nigel was invisible and not as domineering as he normally is and there was not that much support for Sneijder/Afellay/Robben.

But, all of these things would have been a moot point if Van Persie would have taken his hattrick.

According to my stats, Holland has 29 attempts on goal but only six (!) on target…And zero in the net. Oh and did I mention the two handballs in one single action? Late in the second half?

That tells the whole story.

So now, we need to simply beat Germany and Portugal. And I think that was always our plan, so nothing changed.

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0 comments

  1. This is my glass half full way of seeing today’s disaster:
    We got 1 penalty out of the 2 hand ball in box and missed them

    So let’s move on to match #2 and beat Germany/Portugal, if we do this, we won’t even remember what happened this AM.

    HUP HOLLAND HUP!

  2. bert van marijk, what a horrible coach, he needs to go, even if we win the euros, he needs to get lost. holland wins in spite of him

    i’m expecting strootman or van der vaart versus germany, hopefully germany loses so we can at least eliminate them.

  4. Wow I hope this makes them play with more speed. Also with a less defensive minded midfield. Maybe they can use the anger carry them through the rest of the tournent.

  5. This was the best football we’ve played in 8 years and we couldn’t score with the 2 best scorers in Europe besides Messi and Ronaldo… Quite simply both RvP and the Hunter flopped along with Robben.

    Willems was amazing, as was Sneijder and Afellay

  6. By and large we played well. Defence was too deep as Jan has said but they did ok. Robben made some poor decisions and the full backs should have been more adventurous. I couldn’t understand why sometimes there was a lack of bodies in the box when Sneijder and Robben were in position to play the ball. But, let’s face it, we had plenty of chances and on another day we would have won comfortably.

  7. the Danes played smart, they attacked from the sides. That sidesteps the 4-2 defense formation we use…

    Other than that it is obvious that the “guy” who said:

    1. if you keep the possession the others cannot score
    2. offense is the best defense

    has simply been stuck in the 70s. Problem with all these theories is that it takes a good counter offense to win a game. That’s what the Danes did and this is what the Germans will go for.

    Let’s say out offense was more prolific and we had simply an unlucky day offensively. SO WHAT? the Danes should have scored at least 2. That is not a good game plan. Sorry but this offense is the best defense is a bunch of horseshit.

    The team was out of focus but the offensive minded line up exacerbated the issue.

    We need the more defensive players in the back even if that is to the expense of creativity.

    We were simply FOOLISH today. Foolish game, we could have won 3-0 for fun. But everyone played like the 4-0 was on a contract… Back to the drawing board now.

  9. AFfely was our best player. the first half was holland best performance in last two years, but robben and van persi was not good enough in finishing, van persi’s pass was good, but he cannot finish and kill the goal keeper. the big question is why BVM change affely when he was our most dangerous player.

    1. Actually, it was a tale of two halves. Afellay was good in the first half, but it was more of a solo performance and shooting, he did not get others involved (if you compare his play to what he did in our last friendly).
      In the 2nd half, he was absent, I did not see much of him from 45 to 70 minutes, and was rightly subbed.
      Sneijder was missing in the 1st half, but in the 2nd he came alive and orchestrated things.
      Our level of play was sub-par in the 2nd half, and we created fewer chances compared to 1st half.
      The problem is why Bert took to long to make impactful changes.

  11. When you play against a weaker team like Denmark, you know they gonna disrupt your normal pattern by slow down the game. With that said, Oranje was stagnated and lack of speed. BVM was way too predictable with his 2 defensive mids AGAINST DENMARK!!! The Hunter AND Rvp should have both started.

    Notice with the introduction of the Hunter, the offensive line became much more dangerous, especially with the presence of VDV.

    1. Hasn’t anybody noticed how poor van der vaart was,losing the ball 3 or 4 times..and what i understood is RVP and Huntelaar cant play together..its a fact and we should accept..

      1. Please explain to me at what point in this universe has it been declared that RvP and Huntelaar cannot both start? When did this become an established fact?

        VDV was poor? The guy came on late and was placed in a desperate situation. He simple could not establish his usual rhythm.

  12. Yeah,shit happens…
    But I am disgusted to see that in this modern football times,a team that plays better defence usaually wins.
    They did play well in the first half,some nice moves,but the second half was very nervous and impatient. Van Marwijk made some changes that did not bring better football,they got worst.
    Too many missed changes do this to you.
    Time to beat Germans now.

  13. why the fuck are we discussing what we could have done…GOD we lost to denmark….if we cant take our chances against denamrk.dont think we have much chances against other teams with one goal down…

  14. Well, for us to win the cup (according to Van Der Wiel with 2-1 in the final; regardless the opponent. pfff),

    We now have to beat

    Germany
    Portugal
    Russia
    Spain
    Germany

    This is not impossible …
    But please,

    not likely,

    if we lose to Denmark.

    Aanvalluuuuuuh !!!

  15. We had too many chances missed. At this levels you always have to pay for it. Sneijder played excellent, though. I think we have like 2 teams in one. The defensive team that is mediocre and could be around Nº50 in Fifa ranking, and the offensive team, that surely is among the best in the world. In most cases this is not enough…

    @Oranje Crush: sorry but I think Van der Vaart was crap today.

  16. afellay was subbed out because his fitness isn’t quite there yet to last the full 90. He was one of the best today though, I agree.

    I really think that this game was just bad luck, not hitting the net. I personally would have brought on vdv at the half, and given him more time. Then hunter on at 60 min mark.

    The result of this game will not matter, so long as we beat both germany and portugal.

    I think a tie between germany and portugal will be best going forward, but who knows.

    Getting mathisjen back for next game would help settle the back four. Not saying that he is an improvement over vlaar, but his familiarity will help out heitinga and the rest at the back.

    perhaps we need to start de jong and vdv next game from the beginning, as van bommel is now on a yellow.

    give hunter the start, and bring in van persie off of the bench at the 45 mark if we are not up at the half.

  17. Huntelaar as striker is our only hope (and its a slim one anyway)…

    i know we have missed some decent changes but the team just looked out of it…

    Again; Robben is the most overrated player in years,, vPersie is not a finisher, and vMarwijk is a coach without any balls

    were out; simple as that

  18. Depressing, but far from over. Forget about the 1988 losing to USSR, but also Spain losing to Sweden with the same result and then they go on to “beat” (absolute b/s) us in the final. Watch closely on this Germany/Portugal game and we might have a better idea of what will happen. I don’t like admitting it, but Germany should win today and a draw would make it almost a tad bit better and depending on who shows up for us next match, we can def get somethin on here. Been watching them for so so long now, this loss was upsetting and shocking, but perhaps this is the wake up we need, which is always better sooner than later.

  19. bon je vais parler en francais maintenant:
    je pense que la hollande n’a pas joué un très mauvais match mais comme je l’ai toujours dit il faut toujours compter avec la chance si tu veut remporter un match; and we simply didn’t have luck today..
    *je pense aussi que huntelaar doit etre titulaire et van persie sur le banc
    *vlaar doit rester titulaire à coté de mathijsen; heitinga est médiocre
    *de jong est très très très lent, c’est enervant. STROOTMAN doit etre à coté de van bommel

  20. >why the fuck are we discussing what we could have done

    here is why. If you look at the game carefully you would see that the old sly fox Morten Olsen pulled a page out of Joachim Löw’s book. Specifically:

    It is obvious that with Nigel and Mark in the 4-2 formation it is simply impossible to penetrate Holland from the center. Even the Spaniards failed. BUT, our flanks were left uncovered so that is where all the counters came from.

    Same thing like the 3-0 from Germany (look 2nd goal there). Our full backs were constantly out of position. All the stupid Danish attacks should have been stopped at the mid line level, not trying to prevent the cross. That is too late.

    The area that Kuyt usually covers on the left and the right equivalent is where all the penetration came. That is why Nigel didn’t touch the ball. He was side stepped. With Schaars there this simply wouldn’t have happened. BvM risked too much or got too much pressure to play the “offensive” game and we lost. Bad bet.

    I am sorry but if we don’t understand today’s game/mistakes, we are home already.

    Germans will counter attack like crazy. We need to show perfect formation in the back and f patience scoring. If we dont score, at least they don’t score. This or home…

    1. I completely agree on the assessment of counter-attacks. It’s the same thing the Russians did in 2008, and even the way they play now (as against the Czechs). To address this, in my view, the wingbacks need to move forward more to cut off the sideline outlet, and the holding midfielders be willing to slot over quickly. But this is generally the weakness of 4-2-3-1.

      However, it doesn’t seem to me that we lost the game being too offensive. I thought our wingbacks held back too much in fact. While we had a lot of shots, many of those were from distance (and mediocre ones at that) and so the statistics are a bit skewed. Plus, we had to chase the game a goal down, you can’t play more defensively at that point.

      I don’t think our answer is Kuyt tracking back, but Kuyt or someone else providing width and going down outside to the goalline, where dangerous crosses come from. I hardly saw any of that from our side, but it was where Denmark tried to go every time.

      1. VanX our full backs were constantly out of position. Either too ahead or too passive in the back. The mid line had no width at all. And this where Kuyt makes the big diff. He widens the mid line considerably and the ship is tight. Today the ship was leaking badly…water entering from both sides.

        My view is simple. We have so many players in the front that each can kill a game by himself. Why need all of them at the same time? It is like a kitchen with 3 chefs. And all of them are very selfish too (which is normal). But why put them all together ? Isn’t 1-0 or 2-0 enough ?

    2. @ Demi

      Hold on a second, playing against Denmark with defensive mid and you still think that BVM “risked too much to play the offensive game”? What was so “Offensive” about our line up? If anything, it’s too conservative, predictable, and stagnated.

      The simple fact that our defenders did not do their jobs does not mean that BVM played “offensive”. The line up was basically the same as in the world cup.

      1. I think vBommel didn’t play his usual position today, he was way in the front. Am I wrong ?

        >The line up was basically the same as in the world cup.

        no way. and let me be more specific. In the world cup, see final for example, Kuyt was covering the left flank by being somewhere around the mid-line. Nigel was then moving more to his right and so did Mark. Robben was way deeper. That way the Spaniards could not enter from the sides like the Danes today. The Danes today had a party on Wiel’s side. Not that it is totally his fault but the flanks were left uncovered because the full backs were mostly trying to attack. But Danemark didn’t turn out to be Northern Ireland.

        No way the same line up, no way the same formation. Watch the final against Spain where we shut them down for 90 mins… The formation today had two gapping holes on each wing.

        Am i wrong about the above?

        1. @ Demi

          Yes, the starting line up was not exactly 100% the same. But then again, we played against Denmark, not Spain… What could Kuyt possibly change or contribute to a significant degree in today’s game against Denmark? Did we really need to strengthen the midfield defensively or creatively? Denmark did not distribute the ball around enough and their players did not move around to the point where we would need a Kuyt-like.

          1. @Oranje_Crush

            seriously, I think one issue is that you talk about Danemark like they are a little village that makes croissants 🙂

            They are not. Today the mediocre teams can muster up a good defense and with a little luck (they had plenty) they can counter attack and beat the tops. Remember greece? that POS (sorry greeks) that won the EK2004 ? I bet you would talk down Greece like you talk Danemark. But if you are not careful at the important games the Danes/Greeks will bite you…

            So Kuyt could have brought stability on the left wing (it is a miracle Danemark didnt score from Jetro’s side MIRACLE) and increase the width of the mid line so we can also plug at least some of the gap to the right …

            See my answer to VanX with whom I think we mostly agree. The width of the mid line was not there today and the “fishermen” had a party …

  22. The Danish goal was a ricochet off VDW into Kohns path, Robben hits the post, RvP trips over himself and air swings, Huntelaar is denied by a good save, 3 handballs in the box and no penalty and Robben is fouled in the box too.
    Other than missing crazy amounts of good chances (RvP still needs to be benched!) many other things conspired against us today.
    But as I say, better to beat the Germans and lose the Euro than win the Euro and lose to the Germans….although this time we may just do both if we can get the loss out of our system AND start KJH….

  24. >yea im just worried about the scoreline against germany, i hope they dont beat us too much…

    agree. if BvM does not go back to title football we will get embarrassed.

    Ok guys, we tried total football. That’s what we played today. Happy now? Can we go back to the winning formula ?

  25. Robben should be sent home today! He is disgusting, he shoots when he has to pass an easy ball to rvp and he passes when he had to shoot when van persie set him free one on one! It is true the defense is noT the best, but sneijder afellay and van persie were all good! Van persie was unlucky because he slipped on the grass at a decisive moment! I hate robben!

  27. You can’t win a tournament in the first game.

    But you can pretty much lose one.

    Two tough, tough matches coming up now. Maybe we’re best when our backs are against the wall. I’m not so sure.

    We played a lovely game at times, but we were not unlucky – there is no such thing as luck, it is not a force, merely an observation based on a misunderstanding of statistical chance. We just didn’t take our chances.
    Some players were greedy, some were just not firing straight. That happens. It’s football. We move on – probably to 2014.

    Bert will take the blame, and rightly so – that is the manager’s duty.

    There was nothing wrong with the system, nor the tactics, nor the effort, nor the team selection.
    The statistics tell the whole story, as always. Nearly 30 chances, no goals.
    Most simply, we choked. End of story.
    Hopefully not, but very possibly, end of tournament too.

    However, there is still a glimmer of hope, and as the great Rocky Balboa said:
    It ain’t over ’till it’s over!

    Hup Holland.

  28. Let’s stop blaming individuals for this loss. This was a TEAM loss. Sure there were moments of brilliance, but the main issue that led to this loss was a lack of cohesiveness as a team. Passes were a bit off, lack of communication in the back, passing when one should be shooting and vice versa. Oranje needs a bit of time to gel as a team and I think we’ll be all right.

    One big positive for me was the play of Sneijder. He was trying his best to bring on that cohesiveness I’m talking about. Robben on the other hand, was very individualistic coming in from the right. Another problem is that RvP and Robben are both VERY much left-footed players. They can’t create anything with their bad foot. Robben plays on the right and if he doesn’t cut in, he can’t cross well with his right foot. If Robben does manage to get in a pass with his right foot, RvP has to take that pass with his equally horrible right foot. Moral of the story: it’s not Hunter and RvP who are incompatible, it’s RvP and Robben.

  29. For w eeks we heard how fast paced the training was, but when it matters they move like old slugs. Yes we missed lots of chances but also played horribly when we had them. The team seems tired and lacked bite. Robben passed when he must shoot and shoots when he must pass. VPersie clearly under too much pressure… Hunter was also unable to control the ball. They cannot handle the pressure. Only Sneijder could cut it and was himself, our only good player at the moment. We have too many problems in defense when Mathijsen is not there.

  31. Get real folks….RvP is a flop for Oranje. He has all the talent in the world and can’t deliver. Many complained about how isolated he was at WK2010 but now he is at the Euro with a host of great chances and can’t beat a third string Danisk GK.
    Don’t blame Robben or anyone else but RvP. He played 71mins as the main man, the EPL goal scoring machine, the spearhead of mighty Oranje and he FAILED big time.
    Bert needs the cajones to replace him with KJH from the start. The Germans won’t know what hit them and we’ll be back in it…..if not…..well I may have to cancel my South American holidays if RvP gets yet another chance at WK 2014….

  32. We dominated but could not convert. 2 handballs, Robben passed instead of shot, Van Persie missed. Even Hunter had one decent chance and still missed. JC is probably happy with this dominating play, but Bert probably very upset right now.

  33. Van Der Vaart did not play well at all. Strootman should play. One defensive mistake and Denmark made the most out of it. Where is the God of Luck?

  35. mmm the germans are not that great tonight either…

    one good thing is that next 2 matches are late evening matches with cooler temps, the players complained it was humid and hot, and they looked so drained… ;( BBC said something wrong with our preparation… Danes looked fitter goddamn it, goddamn poulsen schone eriksen beat us, eredivisie beat international league

  39. I’m not sure what went wrong, rvp didn’t look himself and there weren’t enough attacking moves of any real threat- we had dozens of corners and wasted them all.

    It’s not over yet, and I still think we can beat Germany and Portugal, but we’ve made it unnecessarily tough on ourselves.

    Hoping for a draw with Germany Portugal match, there was just an announcement of abandonning the game..! Hope that doesn’t happen. :S

  40. I hope Germany and Portugal remains tie. We just have to beat them both then advance. The team decides to take a difficult road. It will be tough but not impossible. Let’s see if they have a strong will to win. Two things concern me: 1) failure to convert scoring chances into goals 2) the team looks tired in the last 20 min.

  41. Agragami: we stand a chance,but it will be very,very difficult. i hope germany-portugal will be a draw. lol,pepe was fouled three times in the first half xD

    only willems and sneijder were good.
    my notes:
    stekelenburg – had nothing to do,so i don’t know…
    van der wiel 5
    heitinga 3
    vlaar 6
    willem 6,5
    van bommel 6
    de jong 4,5
    robben 4
    sneijder 7
    affelay 6
    van persie 5
    ————
    vdv 5
    huntelaar 5,5
    kuyt played only 5 minutes…

  42. hello folks, honstly the match has proven that the tactics of bvm have fallen and that we need to go back to the dutch playing style…
    our lines were far from each other and the deffense sat at the back. .. we had chances but we could not win against a team sitting in the back…. we only got through the final.of.the wc through sitting and countering. …
    i cant wait for this generation to fade and.bvm.to quit so that we go back our the dutch roots of playing….

    nevertheless i wish we go through and players become sharper and play with thier souls more. .

  47. In 1988 Netherlands lost to USSR 0-1, won the next 2 games and win the Cup. This time it will not be easy as the opponents are Germany and Portugal, arguably the biggest rivals, but history can repeat. It won’t be easy, but I hope these men and Bert prove me right.

  48. Germany wins 1:0. They were far from convincing and got everything they could handle from Portugal,but they did what they had to do which was to win.
    Portugal will be an extremely difficult opponent to beat.
    In fact our fancy our chances against Germany but Portugal will be really tough. The reason is simple: Portugal are fighters, they are relentless and they have a willpower. All three qualities we lack.
    Our back line better be disciplined and our offense critical for we are in for a very tough battle in the next two games. Lose and we go home.

  49. In 88 Michels made a few changes in the team after the frist game, so should vMarwijk. Boula for vd Wiel seems a good idea. And maybe real wingers?, Narsingh and Robben as sub. Luuk de Jong and please no Kuyt!

  50. The most frustrating thing of all? (And there is a long list of them)

    It’s the thought that Bert won’t drop RvP and replace him with Hunter to start. Bert believes too much in “the system” and hurting the confidence of his 1st choice players. It’s regrettable but my prediction is the same lineup to start, with Matiejsen if fit and possibly Van der Weil replaced by Boula assuming Bert saw the same game that everyone else did.

    By the way, I really wouldn’t mind if Weil never wore the Oranje colors again. He has always lacked inspiration and grit and has reached a new low. We need to groom a new right back for 2014, starting now.

    1. >By the way, I really wouldn’t mind if Weil never wore the Oranje colors again. He has always lacked inspiration and grit and has reached a new low.

      agree but here is the issue. if we make too many changes how this is going to work with Germany? only 3 days left …. That is why I am not very optimistic and I hope I am wrong. Weil is worthless cause he doesn’t care. But if we put Boula, Joris and Stijn (and even Kuyt) it is almost changing 1/3 of the team. This is as risky as not doing any changes.

      I think Bert caved in the requests for more attacking football, it backfired and I am not sure there is time to change it… we might have to suck it up this time. 🙁

      1. I am just making the point that of the listless players, it seemed to me that Weil had most lack of ambition. I was already disappointed with him at the end of WC10, but it is frustrating to see such a lack of passion continue, and the coach doing little to explore replacements over the past 2 years. But 2 years from now we’ll be so thankful that Willems is there, he brings some energy and drive to the backline.

        So this is an issue for the long term, not just this tournament. I agree that Bert will make limited changes because he will see the positives in the game where statistically many chances were created (not all of them good) and it would be too disruptive. Boula has played RB many times before and is a solid replacement that won’t upset the apple cart. As for the rest, Bert is in a real dilemma. He probably sees Germany as a more offensive threat so will see no problem in keeping MvB and Nigel together as the defensive midfielders. With that done, there is not much more he can do. Maybe he’ll cave in and swap RvP with Hunter. Matiejsen in if feeling up to it. Willems replaced by Schaars? So that’s 3-4 changes, at most, but still a lot.

        1. I meant a lot of changes for Bert, that is.

          One more thing: If Weil could overlap Robben like Lahm does, it would increase Robben;s effectiveness substantially. He is usually faced with two defendants but Weil could pull one of them away with a sideline run. But he has to be begged to go forward.

          And then Weil never gets in a good cross. It’s like he’s just going through the motions, thinking his job is done if he just launches a wayward ball. I really can’t fathom that we don’t have better options.

  51. i don’t feel that 88 parellels are justifiable for one simple reason: the 88 team was far better than the current oranje. we had more than worldclass defenders (r. koeman and frank),gullit and san marco. now we only have sneijder who’s close to their level. the defense is average without any topplayer. the two holding mids are solid,but wouters was better than van bommel,and de jong is not creative at all. van persie is worldclass,but he is not a central striker,or only in a system where everything is based on him. huntelaar is great,we have our hope in him and they definitely can play together. robben is overrated and a big game flop,and on top of this he doesn’t know what “passing game” means.
    despite these things,oranje can and have to qualify for the quarter finals: germany are not as good as everybody says. to be honest,portugal’s tactics helped them,but after 1-0 portugal were the better side on the pitch. we don’t need to calculate: two victories and oranje gets through.
    my starting eleven against germany: stekelenburg – van der wiel,heitinga,vlaar,willem – van bommel,kuyt – van persie,sneijder,affelay – huntelaar

  52. Ok, it was one of those days that the ball would simply not go in. It happens. However, I was appalled that our team had given up in the last 5-6 minutes. There was no urgency, fast moves whatsoever. I hate to say this but imagine Germany or Spain 1 goal down in the last 5 minutes. Just compare their intensity with ours.

    The truth is the Dutch team forever lacks two of the most vital things in modern football: Killer instinct and Mental Strength. Unfortunately, this is where Germany excels. In the last 24 years I have been watching Holland play, I have rarely seen them come back from being a goal down (got lucky in the Brazil game in the last World Cup with that Melo goal), leave alone come back in the tournament.

    I had predicted in the old blog that Holland will draw against Denmark and lose to both Germany and Portugal, thereby finishing last in the Group. This team unfortunately is on track to even beat my most pessimistic expectation. At this point I wont be surprised if they end up with ZERO points.

    With the current generation aging out and no world class talent in the horizon (please don’t mention Luuk De Jong etc, that idiot will play scared against a women’s team), I think along with the Euro 2012 disaster, we should prepare for a long hibernation of Holland from major international competitions for quite some time, much like the early 80s.

    I am sorry Jan, you a picked a wrong time to start this great site.

    1. @Vikram. I agree on almost all your points. I think that even if we beat Germany, Portugal’s passion and speed will eat us alive. It is OK to have a bad day but not to show any passion is disgusting, it is the same old Holland (except that of 98). I never saw a player running towards someone who missed a chance and trying to cheer him up or someone trying to rally the team, I saw an indifferent coach who stuck fanatically to his old habits of substituting after 70th minute, I saw tired and uninterested millionaires for whom it didn’t matter whether we won or lost, I saw NDJ who was walking instead of running when substituted, I saw no urgency whatsoever when time was ticking. It is only that they are extremely talented individuals who can easily create chances, it is a real pity that they don’t even have half the german mentality.

      1. @Balkan. This… as much as I was fighting it prior to the tournament I have to say Its pretty evident now…Just a bunch of talented millionaires kicking a ball around a park waiting to go see the next exhibit in Ukraine/Poland..

        Except Sneijder he actually looked like he wanted to be there aswell as Willems… but thats probably because he’s young.

  53. notes on this game:

    I have watched holland for over 20 years and have yet to remember a game where they looked so tired. Denmark was a collection of eredivise players. They looked “smarter” than the dutch.

    I don’t know why the team would look so tires, not pressing on the ball. Maybe if they had focused more on training than twitting or giving interviews, they would have been a tad sharper.

    Talent is simply not enough to win anything at this level. I found the camera annoying too. As soon as RVP would miss one of the many chances the camera would focus on Hunter to see if he was pissed. Clearly, trying to exploit a possible future rift. Why? I know not.

    Even in the last 20 minutes when the field was filled with dutch attackers (all in all, a bunch of millionairs vs salaried men) it was ugly to watch. A moment of genius was followed by a shot so far wide off the post that NASA is still searching for the ball.

    BVM summed it up well in the post match interview: “I dont know…i just dont know…”

  55. We were simply not playing as a team and we were not linked enough strongly.

    Fitness was not an excuse. If we could play how we did against the Brazilians and Uraguay?

    Honestly, we’re almost one leg out of the tournament. Only if a miracle happens. To beat Germany is not impossible, but quite unlucky with this kind of form.

    It happens. Holland is never afraid of the strong teams. We have beaten Argentina, Brazil, France and Italy. It just happens that we slip against those we think are weaker teams such as Denmark and…. Russia 4 yrs ago.

    Sometimes you can blame on not having enough luck. But if you can’t score over 30 attempts, then there is a serious problem.

  56. It is very very easy to see what went wrong. BERTS TACTICS !!!

    I agreed with some analists who said, remove V.Bommel who was just about the worst player. Put in Huntelaar and put V.Persie on the 10 spot, shift Sneijder back to a position in front of defense and put Robben on the left and Afellay/Narsingh/Kuyt on the right. Simple as that.
    I honestly think Willems and Vlaar are in no way to blame, it is berts tactics that make 2 of europes best strikers play shit.

    More importantly, OMG Sneijder was unbelievable, what an incredible, unbelievably good match he played !!!!!!!!!!!!! In a team that was very very poor, he really excelled. The only one that lived up to his potential to be honest, we should use that, let him be our maestro and let him set out the lines and use the fire power we do have upfront.

  58. I don’t get where all the BvM hate is coming from. We didn’t have our shooting boots on. The team dominated Denmark all over, the problem has to do with the ball being round.

    We have to beat germany and portugal who also don’t look great. hopefully denmark beat on them too.

  59. this team is loaded with talent, the problem being the players with the most talent don’t have the “heart” or desire to do what is necassary to win. As a Dutch Canadian how loves soccer almost as much as hockey, us Canadians appreciate players who sacrafice ( and play for free by the way in International competitions) and want to win as much as the fans do. Unfortunately this cuurent band of limp wristed prima donna excuse makers would not be worthy of carrying a Canadian hockey players’ jockstrap.

    What a pitiful pathetic display today, I hope they can look themselves in the miiror tonite and dig deep and find the courage and conviction necassary requried for success.

  60. Saw a short highlight of BVM complaining about the two Danish handballs and our lack of accuracy on ESPN post match interview.

    BVM’s failure was not strategy today. We’ve all been going over the defensive approach with two holding midfielders and not playing Hunter along with RVP.

    Two main things as to why we lost:

    #1. RVP clearly had the worst game of his life.
    #2. I just don’t have words to explain how bad our defense is. Everytime that Denmark attacked, they looked like they were gonna score.

    How can we win Euro 2012 with this defense against top opposition?

    I think, I have finally given up on VDW. I really wanna see Boulah. At least he’ll defend and stabilize the defense a bit on the right side. Willems needs to learn how not to lose his man and be in control of his area.

    what has happened, has happened! We can’t change the past.

    All we can do is make some adjustments and give it our best.

    #1…We need to be hyped up. We need heart and passion. We need to chase down every German possession. This is a game that defines a career for this generation. As good as they are individually, they can’t lose against Germany which will mean the end of the tournament. That’s a bad legacy for such a talented group.

    #2…I’ll give Robben one more chance to start the game. If he’s doing the same thing he did today, he must come off at half-time.

    #3…Schaars for Willems. Boulah for Vlaar. Our left flank is too shaky. We can’t have two rookies with no experience to handle a German offense that expects to lift the trophy.

    #4…Start Huntelaar. If RVP doesn’t get benched after this game, I don’t know when he’ll be. We need results and not reputation. He has to know that he has to pay the price for a lackluster performance.

    Formation

    Steks
    VDW/Heitinga/Boulah/Schaars

    MVB/NDJ

    Robben/Sneijder/Afellay

    Hunter

  63. Sorry Jan, but I blame you for highlighting what a “no name” that Michael Krohn Dehli is and for point out that Denmark hadn’t beat us since the 60s.

    It was football charma

  64. @Alex,
    I respectfully disagree. Willems and Vlaar did well in your opinion? That whole left side of our defense was just a disaster. We don’t play man to man or we don’t play zone defense. It was like chaos everytime Denmark came forward.

    BVM’s tactics didn’t make RVP miss goals from point blank range. BVM’s tactics didn’t make Robben shoot into the stands at least 3 or 4 times.
    I would agree with you if we didn’t create any scoring chances because the offense was ineffective. We created tons of chances, we just didn’t finish them.

    I’m not saying BVM isn’t to blame at all. He should have made the changes earlier. This game and maybe this tournament itself was lost because our forwards couldn’t convert and our defense just isn’t good enough to hold a team like Denmark.

    1. I agree totally with this. Denmark had one chance and buried it. Our guys created lots chances and wasted them with nerves. Its not BvM’s fault if our guys choke.

  65. It’s funny, everyone of us thinks about changing this or that, system, players, and so on.

    It’s not the system, it’s not the players. What defeated us tonight is a frigging total lack of motivation. They don’t seem to care! Disgusting.

    Compare them with the Russians yesterday. They were more oranje than us. One more game like this and I root for them. Well, one more like this and we are home anyway…

  67. @Balkan Main papers say that clumsy listless Oranje has thrown away chances on title for now, they praise Sneijder. They compare with 88, but add the team of today seems not able to turn this around against germany. Rather pessimistic.

  68. Van Marwijk won’t change anything, I simply don’t believe in it, I’m pretty sure that even after 10 years he would bring in the same line up without changes. Changes are needed, and for those changes courage is needed, and that’s what Bert lacks – real courage. I’m not going to say that Huntelaar will bang in 5 goals in a game, but seriously, van Persie doesn’t score anyway, give a chance to somebody else !

  69. Wake up people. Why is van persie not functioning… He is the fucking English topscorer !! IT IS OBVIOUSLY THE PLAYING SYSTEM!! I cant remember us playing a great match against a serious opponent… It is simply not working.. There was no idea what to do end of the second half, clueless, and Bert was too, his tactics failed miserably, Robben on the right is too easy to defend, V.d.Wiel was horrible and V.Bommel was horrible, but please.. Dont start acting like all of a sudden Van Persie is the reason things went wrong. Bert needs to see his players arent functioning as they can in this formation.. Even in a horrible match we still should have won, the number of chances for us isnt because we played so well, in fact I’d say we played rather shit, only Sneijder was great.

    And dont even start about rooting for someone else, if you’re gonna be that easy about it.. then I cant see why people should stay here.

  70. Dont take out V.Persie, because if you do now, you are going to ruin his confidence, this is tearing our two best strikers apart. It is not RVP or Huntelaar, it is both that should play !!!!!! You dont give your best player confidence by letting Huntelaar do a warm up every time he doesnt play well.

    1. Was RvP not the lone striker in Arsenal with Walcott and Gervinho on the wings? Just like RvP has Robben and Affelay on the wings. Very similar system, unless you’re somehow imply that Sneijder cannot find spaces like Alex Song does.

      All of us here are making the assumption that if Rvp can perform well in Arsenal, he should also do as well for Oranje. I agree with you though Alex, that both Hunter and RvP must start together. BvM is just so f*cking conservative.

  71. If Van Marwijk does not change anything.. we are not going past the group stage. In fact I wouldnt give much chance of going through, but if he keeps it the way it is, we’re certainly not going through. He is the coach, if the team, a team with such good players fails miserably.. then its obvious youre not getting the most out of them.

    1. Alex, take it easy. its not over yet and we created 29 shots – its not like our guys didn’t try. Their finishing just stunk. It had nothing to do with playing the old way – it had to do with nerves and our guys choking

  72. This match was against Denmark. I have given Oranje the benefit of the doubt when playing in a friendly but they looked no different today. So UTTERLY BORING! No style, no flair, NOT DUTCH! Maybe we draw against the Germans or maybe another 3-0 drubbing. Neither will surprise me but the Portuguese are in our heads and will eliminate us from another tournament.

    I apologize for spreading bad vibes but I am seriously sick of BVM’s decisions. Is he still playing v.Persie because he doesn’t want a repeat of what happened at Feyenoord? v.Persie can’t transfer club form to Oranje just like Ronaldo/Messi don’t for their respective nations. Let’s cut the bullshit we need a finisher up front. Having 2 DMF’s to sheild our weak CBs isn’t working. We are going to concede either way so let’s put in someone more creative so we can at least score 2 or 3 goals of our own.

    Oh and our side has no chemistry, we’re about to lose in the “Group of Death” and you still wait until the 72nd minute to make a change? Nice one Rafa Benitez

  73. We just don’t have good defenders. When are people gonna understand that? This game was absolutely a case in point.

    Vlaar is too slow to respond. He doesn’t have any clue as to what to do in the penalty box. Seems like his brain shuts off. Whenever he played and we conceded a goal, he seems to be out of position or lost his man. The guy is afraid to even pass the ball forward. All his passes are to the left or right. Forget about building the attack from the back.

    RVP is a quality striker. I have no doubt about that. It’s not like he’s not getting chances to score because of BVM’s plan is holding him back. He had one atrocious day and unfortunately, in a group of death, you are just as good as your last game. If we were in Group A or D, a single loss could be overcome. Now, not only do we have to not lose against Germany but we have to beat Portugal to even have a remote chance of qualifying.

    Why did we lose in 2008 against Russia?
    BVM wasn’t there. What was the tactic or strategy then?
    The players failed to execute. The defense totally shut off.

    Who gets the blame for Bayern Munich losing to Chelsea?
    At the end of the day, it came down to Robben. He had a penalty and couldn’t score! Simple as that. Every other excuse is secondary.

  74. I hate to argue in general and I hate it even more when it is with my Oranje Army brothers… Gonna take a walk, have a late lunch and start praying we can win against the Germans… The rear has to considerably improve …

  75. I guess some of you guys are just too focused on playing with flair and style. Maybe the 1998 team could afford to play that way. This current squad just can’t when you have a defense that is terrorized the minute the ball crosses the halfway line.

    If we take off MVB and NDJ and bring in VDV and Hunter, most of you here would be happy. Back to the old days of flair and style. If we lose the game 3-4, who are you going to blame? Can’t blame the system because it’s what you guys wanted. How many times in the past did we have flair and style and end up going home early?

    System didn’t fail more than players failed.

    #1 failure today = RVP and Robben
    #2 failure today = Vlaar and Heitinga
    #3 failure today = BVM

  76. I´m a great fan of vPersie, but today I saw him miss 3 good chances, one in a childish way. Like 2010 he cracked up. Its got nothing to do with the system. He scores in the UK but cannot handle the pressure of internationals , to me its a fact, after today. I cant blame vMarwijk, he made some mistakes but the players were all bad, except for sneijder. Affelay too disappointed me, he only played back and wide. I see pressure as the only answer to why persie cant do for oranje what he does all year round at his club.

  77. They need to put everything on the field and defeat Germany first. Do not think about advancing or Portugal. Just focus on Germany and what it takes to defeat Germany. Tie or lose then they can simply walk in the last game, no need to run.

  78. OMG….that’s it. It’s all over already. There is no way we will beat Germany and Portugal won’t lose to us so I guess that’s it. We need to lose Van Marwijk, Heitinga, the 2 guarding midfielders and V. Persie. I guess Lothar Matheus was right about us…..

  79. @SamDC
    Yeah the weak defense is our main problem. We just don’t have a Koeman or Stam coming through our ranks. That’s an overall problem but not something that can be fixed immediately.

    BVM picks the team and his current choices aren’t helping. Experience is great but new talent always have something to prove. Robben is a choker. He just don’t come through when it counts (i.e WC 2010 final and recent Bayern games).

    I don’t want to start a whole finger pointing debate. The defense is the problem. But BVM’s choices are irritating. We look like an old Italian team except past Italian sides at least knew how to defend.

  80. BTW I don’t think VdV is the solution for NDJ. VdV is obsessed with pushing forward and he doesn’t have the pace or stamina to track back once we give up the ball. Strootman is at least a creative player with good passing.

    We may still have the same result and I’m not trying to point fingers. If we lose with our BEST POSSIBLE side out then theres nothing wrong with that. That’s just how it is. But the best/balanced collective 11 aren’t out there.

    1. It’s interesting to compare our holding midfielders with Germany’s: they have Schweinsteiger and Khedira. Khedira provided the assist today from the edge of the penalty area. Schweinie runs all over the field, up and down sidelines too.

      By comparison, our holding mids are apparently trained to stay within an invisible box in the middle 1/3 of the field.

      You can’t attack all of the time, but you have a big advantage if your holding mids can transform into offensive threats when needed, or to push a momentary advantage. Maybe after this tournament, we can explore more balanced players for this position. Of course we should always have a destroyer as an option to bring in when the game needs to be defensive.

      I think you’re right about VdV, and also today he had an off day. Like with the Spurs, he tries to make the killer pass all the time instead of the easy one, and is unsuccessful most of the time.

      1. Absolutely correct in your comparisons. Our holding midfielders can’t leave that imaginary box because of our non-existing CBs.

        I’ve also noticed VdV do that for Spurs a number of times. Probably why Harry takes him off around the 65th minute.

  81. Hello, Jan and congratulations! I can not imagine you must do in order to produce these sites–thank you so much.I look forward to following the comments during Euro, although I think “we” will be gone at the end of the group stage.

    In watching as often as possible the team’s last few matches, all friendlies, I think that Denmark’s win was very predictable. I am disappointed in what has become of this team. van Persie is not fit for this national team and should not start. Huntelaar should start, as he integrates better and is a far more accurrate shooter. Robben has also become worthless. He is so predictable, including his consistent “choking” when the pressure is on. The team shows no offensive creativity, and I believe they should return to the Dutch developed 4-3-3. The defense continues to lose games, which it did today. I respectfully disagree with your positive analysis of Denmark–they were as bad a we were, but got lucky on one play, which won the match. Finally, I agree with several of your other bloggers regarding van Marwyck. He is not a good coach–his lineup decisions are poor, his field positioning is not the best for this current talent, and he does not know how to manage a match, especially with respect to making subs.

    Having said all this, after watching Germany today, IF we play up to potential, and IF we use our heads, we can beat them. However, I think we will lose all three matches and to back to Holland in disgrace–which we should be after today’s performance. I still love this team, and will always watch and root on and hope for victory. Hup, Holland!

  82. Portugal would have led and probably won today had their player passed the ball to an open Renaldo at the roughly 70 minute mark. Perfect setup–but the guy took an extra touch, delayed, then passed it–enabling to german defender to get back to Renaldo in time to block his goal attempt. German is beatable if he have the will. That is the question.

  83. Great website! Congrats and good luck long term Jan!

    I watched the game with the rest of you guys, and some foor for thought: June 14, 2010, the last time we played Denamrk at the WC2010, match stats according to ESPN Soccernet, Holland Shots 18, Denamrk 10, Final Score Holland 2, Denmark 0 (thanks to an own goal).

    Fast forward to today, match stats, Holland 28, Denmark 8, final score, Holland 0, Denmark 1.

    We did more today than 2 years ago, we had a better team today than 2 years ago, Robben played today, he did not 2 years ago. Simply put, today was one of those games, the ball did not bounce our way. Period.

    BVM should be fired!?!? NDJ should be benched for VDV or Strootman?? Come on guys are we back to this again, if we start VDV or Strootman against Germany and Portugal in place of NDJ, we will lose by 2 goals, GUARANTEED. And as for the Heitinga mistake that cost us the goal, it happens, but we could not convert any of our 28 chances today.

    Sorry guys, I know you are all upset but let’s keep things in perspective, and in my opinion, the second all those subs went in, that sealed it for me, I knew that the flow would be gone and that we would not have scored. Having VDV and Sneijder on the field together does not work, they will be competing more than complimenting each other. We need players to compliment each other.

    Just my thoughts boys, again love to hear your feedback, and this team is a definite improvement on paper than 2010, but look what happened. In sports you need to be as lucky as you are good, I always say!

  84. portugal were beaten because they played for the 0-0 and they only started to play after the german goal. it was too late for them,but they were the better side. this is why i think we’ll have more problem against them than against germany. we can beat germany,i have no doubts,we can beat portugal,too,but it will be really difficult. our attacking line had a bad day,but they (especially sneijder) have the talent for winning important game. but why holland don’t have talented defenders? yesterday we saw four teams – agger and kjaer,hummels,pepe (well…) and b. alves are good defenders – they are not worldclass,but can defend – the truth is that oranje don’t have even a bruno alves… if we have such a crap defense,we should take more risk and play 5 attack-minded guys.

  85. I get that we’re dissappinted but we need to calm down. Plus, with my math Portugal and Germany beat Denmark, all we have to do is tie Germany and beat Portugal to go through

    1. @Sonneveld — Let’s hope. Also with a day to mull it over we may see more of the positives that are hidden under the pall of disappointment right now.

      As for lack of fighting spirit, etc., reports did say it was hot and humid, which drains a lot of energy from the players. There is also the mental effect of being a goal down and time ticking – look at how Barcelona choked against Chelsea w/ 10 men. Wasn’t that worse in a way?

      We have a fighting chance still to get out of the group – destiny is still in our hands. Hup, holland!

    2. We cannot be content with a tie against Germany. There are no guarantees that both Germany and Portugal can beat Denmark (Denmark topped Portugal in their Group during the Euro qualifying).
      Seeing how Portugal played against Germany with their fighting and steely spirit, and given how they out-battled us in 2006…if we are not up to it…there is no way we will beat Portugal.
      Nani gave Badstuber all he could handle, and our defense will be tested beyond any measure of imagination.
      Portugal will be our toughest opponent of the Euro.

  86. On paper Holland can beat Germany. Had Holland won this game the second would be close. Now Germany have the edge and that puts all sorts of pressure on Holland. Not just psychologically either, because Holland MUST now open up and go for the win leaving all kinds of tactical problems. Has Holland even practiced without playing two DM against decent opposition? There was that once in November… Now it might still work if individual players thought of each together without being forced to. You could see today many a times a player should of shot but passed because they simply are not use to it, and then when the chips were down everybody went out for themselves. Holland hanging by a thread Wednesday is my prediction, but it’s all up to BVM. If he had the guts to face the media and not throw on four strikers with no feeder Holland might just survive.

  87. Positives are we have to win… We have got the best attackers in the world dont waste this…. Attack attack!! Come on Burt bring back the total football. We are holland show them how its done.

  88. Van Persie is thinking too much, he needs to play more on instinct and he should be in the training ground all week practicing his finishing.

    One of his worse performances in his career.

  89. Oh and Strootman needs to come in against Germany.

    One thing that pissed me off is why none of the defenders or midfielders pressed the danes, they just sit back and drop off the danes when they had the ball instead of pressing them. Against smaller teams you need to press because they don’t have the ability to keep the ball under pressure. If you drop off them they get the confidence and space to hurt you

      1. They are small and your wrong if anything the dutch gave them the respect they didn’t deserve.

        You need to press weaker teams because they lose the ball easily under pressure.

        1. lol…well didn’t they prove in qualifiers they are not a “small” footy nation, coming ahead of portugal? Thats the first red flag…Dont they have the exact medal count with Holland? Didn’t they just beat the Dutch?

          So, not a “small” team at all. They are hardly any small teams in the Euro. Zidane said it best..”it is harder to win than the World Cup”…Our players just weren’t focused enough and thought they would breeze into this game scoring goals galore just like with Northern Ireland. had they realized that Danemark was not a “small” team they would have pressed more and put more pressure on ’em:)

  90. What worries me is that from the after-game interview I understand that BvM just said “it was one of those days”. Which means he probably will not change a thing in the game against Germany. 🙁

    I don’t pretend to have the answers, but it’s clear that *something* has to change. All the opponents played in the last year or so have adapted very well to the current NL tactics. Netherlands have become too stale and static, and something needs to change fast to inject some energy and freshness into the team.

    I’m so disappointed in Van Persie. He is exactly the same as Messi or Ronaldo. Does great things for his club but chokes under pressure when playing for his country. The only place he could play well is Nr. 10. But I guess Sneijder is a better option for that spot anyway.

  91. I feel a better chance to go all the way to final, when we treat all game as knock-out, I mean the next two game against germany and portugal, we can’t lose or out of the tournament. In 2008, 2010, we were comfortable after first two games with big wins, the third game were not decisive so we played with second string players, but it’s actually broken our winning momentum. If the next two games we can win them, we have better chance to go to the final.

  92. What struck me as pathetic was actually the fact that no one was a leader on the pitch. It seemed half the team wanted to attack, the other half wanted to defend. Kinda like the first half against brazil in 2010.

    Someone needs to step up, grab the game by its neck and say “listen up guys, we are winning this, even if we have to win it the ugly way…”. Bommel certainly didnt do that. Maybe it had to do with the absence of Mat at the back, since he is kind of a silent leader.

    In addition, out of 23 shots, only 3 were on target…all the wrong choices were made in terms of shooting or passing.

    As for blaming BVM…are you kidding? This is the second game that mattered that he’s lost in 4 years…and you want the guy fired?! Was it his fault 5 of his player had forgotten his shooting boots? Was it his fault RVP couldnt touch the ball with his feet to save his life? Was it his fault the perfect Wesly cross to Hunter found him impotent in front of the Second choice Danish keeper? Was it his fault Arjen made the wrong choice 2 feet from goal to pass (for the first time in his career) rather than shoot (which he did later from impossible angles?!)

    NO. These are not things a manager needs to tell star players. He can motivate, adjust his tactics all he wants, if they fail to put the ball in the back of the net, only a hater can blame him.

    Let’s hope this was only a one off thing and they somehow find the magic to gel and crash Germany and Portugal.

  93. Cannot believe we lost. I am hoping this doesn’t turn out to be like the 1980 Euro’s. Robben single-handedly stopped 5 of our attacks with his selfish play. If he scores… it’s not selfish. But he didn’t and it is. Van Persie simply cannot score in Tournaments. Wrong or right, it is what it is. Time for Huntelaar.
    The scenario is this: We need to draw in the least against Germany. Portugal beats Denmark. We then beat Portugal, and the Germans beat Denmark. Then we advance.

  94. As I said in the other thread on the blog, IMO Marwijk really does seem clueless at times like a man who simply cannot work out how to get the best out of his resources. How can you leave a guy who has scored 52 goals(!!) in one season for club and country, and who was also the team’s absolute top scorer in qualifying with 12 goals, firmly stuck on the bench for 71 mins and only give him 19 mins at the end? The favouritism has to stop right now.

    Quite simply Oranje’s best XI is without rvp. As I recall, Oranje’s best performance in years came in the qualifying game against Sweden (4-1) with Huntelaar up front scoring 2 goals and an assist for Afellay as Oranje demolished them. This team needs one clinical striker feeding off two fast and skilful wingers with good crossing ability, backed up in midfield by one penetrating passer (ala Xavi) and one dynamic off-the-ball runner with skills through the middle (ala Iniesta), all held together by one solid holding midfielder in a 4-3-3. It’s not rocket science. It also needs a left footed winger on the left and right footed winger on the right. Robben must start on the left where he will be forced to pass and cross more often than shooting wastefully all the time, and Narsigh (the Eredivisie assists king) is now a must start for me on the right wing. At the back the aerial ability / strength of Boulahrouz might be of more benefit to the team vs Klose / Gomez than Mathijsen. I want to see this line up from now on or at least something along these lines.

    11-Robben——-9-Huntelaar——-19-Narsingh
    ——–10-Sneijder——-20-Afellay———-
    —————–6-v.Bommel——————-
    15-Willems-21-Boulahrouz-3-Heitinga-2-v.d.Wiel
    —————1.Stekelenburg—————–

  95. –11-Robben——9-Huntelaar——19-Narsingh
    ——————10-Sneijder—–20-Afellay—–
    ————————-6-v.Bommel———–
    15-Willems-21-Boulahrouz-3-Heitinga-2-v.d.Wiel
    ———————–1.Stekelenburg———

    1. prachtig stick to fifa mate and stop pretending you know more than BvM

      You play that formation and team against Germany and your dead. The reason why Bert picks 2 defensive midfielders is because the defense is so pathetically poor. They need protection.

      The Germans would just counter attack and bypass the aging van bommel.

  96. As crazy as it sounds Holland should play for a draw and mabe try to nick a win. I think a Draw against Germany and a win against Portugal will be enough providing Denmark lose their next two games which is possible.

    I don’t think Holland can go gang ho in attack because Germany are the counter attacking kings. Holland should remain compact and try to nick a goal or two.

    1. agree 100%. We should play exactly like we did against Spain. Very tight lines, widely deployed midfielders, no holes.

      We will get one or two chances and the striker better convert one. Worse scenario goalless draw.

      That’s how you survive groups of death not silly gang ho ..

      Today’s game felt like van Basten was coaching …. really silly way to play. Naive at best.

      We made heros out of the Danes.. f me.

  97. Holland can beat both Portugal and Germany if they put the ball in the net when they shoot. if I was Bert, everybody will practice shooting the next few days.

    Side note, Holland plays Germany on my birthday. I am wishing for a dutch victory!

    C’mpn guys lets get positive here – one loss and everyone turns into a hater. We got countered. It is to be expected if we attack the way we do – Bert knows this. he’s will do the best with what he’s got.

  98. People,

    Let´s get over it. Denmark got lucky, they played the hardest they could and it was enough for them because Oranje never punished them. Forget about the penalties, in the first 20 minutes of the game we should have been 2-0 winning and after Denmark´s goal we had enough chances.

    There is a chance against the Germans, they were very lucky against Portugal, everybody thinks Germany are unbeatable but they aren´t. And if we don´t win, we will be out and let´s be honest, this group is insane…how in the earth Fifa and Uefa allow that four teams of the top ten Fifa rankings can eliminate themselves from the first round??? We will be without either Germany, Holland or Portugal in the next round but we are likely to see Poland or Croatia…it simply sucks big time.

    I´d say that with some more luck we can beat the Germans but BVM will have to lift team spirit, make some changes and yell very hard if that is to happen.

  99. you can say that i don’t watch games, but i am sure we will see totally different team against Germany.

    one way or another, it will be a HUGE game!!.. in fact, now on every game will be HUGE!! YEAAAAH!

  100. I am far more afraid with how our defense performs in the next two games than I am with our offense.
    Our offense, if they become more cohesive and less wasteful and if they play with an urgency (heart), we will score.
    But, I have no clue how our defense will respond against a deadlier firepower given how vulnerable they were every time Denmark attacked.
    Our offense will bounce back and score, I am positive and that will alleviate some pressure off our defense. But we must play more compactly at the back, be disciplined and sort of imitate how we defended during the World Cup 2010 (our current back line is inexperienced and young with Heitinga the only veteran from 2010).

    1. Omission: Van der Wiel played and was a starter in the WC 2010 final & 1/4 final against Brazil.
      But the whole team defended as a unit, with a lot of help defense, and played it safe.

  101. nad I don’t play computer games my friend and certainly not “fifa”. unless you have anything worthwhile to contribute it’s probably better to keep quiet.how did Oranje get on with two defensive midfielders against mighty Denmark then? what was the point then when they still couldn’t protect the defence or defend properly? same thing against bulgaria giving up two goals at home. what exactly becomes the point once it fails to work? you might as well play to your own strengths if those strengths are offensive based. the key to success in this scenario has to be in midfield domination of possession, clinical finishing and high line pressing to retrieve the ball quickly in oppo’s half rather than supposed stifling tactics of 2 DM’S who dont contribute enough offensively and which ultimately was still shown to not be infallible.

    barcelona plays with the classic 4-3-3 with only one defensive mid (busquets) and i’d argue he is even slower than v.bommel! the system is all about domination of possession which is utilised as both an offensive and defensive tactic. the possesion gets transitioned to chance creation at which point a clincal finisher becomes absolutely vital. thereafter you retain the ball to deny the opposition hardly any goalscoring chances. of course barca too can be vulnerable on counters, but so what! at least they to try and win playing to their strength which is offensive based. they stay true to the philosophy.

    their defence aint great. pique was good before but was poor this season, his replacement mascherano is really a defensive midfielder lacking height but used in defence. the only really top CB they have is puyol. and yet they win things. the point is they have a philosophy (ironically enough dutch inspired) and stick to it. it is based on dominating possession. their problem this year was over-reliance on messi to bag goals. otherwise they have shown that dominating possession + clincal finishing is the correct formula as it is the perfect tactic for both offensive play and covering up defensive weaknesses.

    Pls also rememeber that Afellay played in a more withdrawn CM role towards the end of his time at PSV (more like how fabgregas normally played at arsenal) and that was how he became the complete all round midfielder we have today who is able to transition between attacking MF and “creative” holding midfielder with ease.

    Therefore I believe Oranje needs to go for it and stop this cowardly tactics with 2 defensive MF’s who really aren’t necessary and didnt do anything to stop “giants” like Bulgaria or Denmark scoring 3 goals in recent games as Oranje lost both games. The question then becomes what is the point since teams are still scoring anyway. You may as well attack, but please just put quality MIDFIELDERS in midfield and you will see a difference!

    –—11-Robben——–9-Huntelaar——19-Narsingh—-
    —————-10-Sneijder—–20-Afellay—————-
    ————————-6-v.Bommel——————
    15-Willems-21-Boulahrouz-3-Heitinga-2-v.d.Wiel
    ———————–1.Stekelenburg—————-

    1. I like both your assessment of the situation and your solution, prachtig. Not that BvM would come up with that, actually I bet you he’s currently contemplating the revolutionary idea of the defending attacker. He’ll replace RvP with DK. That’ll be his solution for the Germany match.

  102. Amazing – all those chances – all those misses.

    Kinda like ’74 – In those games the Dutch peppered their opponents with shots and many were off target – only the result was different…

    The lads need to get a grip – beat Germany, beat Portugal – it can be done.

    OJF

  103. @Mario

    I agree – the group of death nonsense all over the television is just a way of hiding the fact that Fifa/Uefa want “certain teams” to advance in this competition.

    It really is a farce that 4 of the top ten ranked teams play each other.

    However – they can do it –

    HUP HOLLAND HUP

    OJF

  104. France lost against dutch in group stages in 2000 and went on to win..Portugal lost first game in euro 2004 but reached final..spain lost first game in 2010 wc..still there is hope

  105. At least Marwijk didn’t blame this loss to Mathijsen absence. I really believe Marwijk is very superstitious. There is no way on Earth that someone deploys same exact team regardless of player condition and also follows same exact substitution pattern. I remember in WC2010 when RvP was just a shadow and he kept him in the game no matter what. He seems strong but he in fact is weak. I hope he will have the decency to step down after the tournament and open the door to another coach with new ideas. His lack of interest in developing new players will be felt for a long time though.
    Talent is there to beat Germany and Portugal if only the players could find the fire from the Brazil 2010 game.

    1. Good observation. The team really needs somebody that can fire them up. Can’t imagine BvM being able to do that. Maybe the Dutch just need a bit of that infighting that BvM has extinguished to get their energies going?

  107. The defense was weak and let in one goal, but you need to look at the whole team. How many chances that the offense had and could not convert? Had the offence clicked we would win 3-1 or 4-1. Even the goalie of Denmark gave the ball to Robben and he hit the post. All they need to do is to focus on Germany and what it takes to beat Germany. Only beating Germany then you can look at Portugal. Don’t think too far ahead or you go home soon. Let’s see if Bert deserve to lead this squad to Brazil.

  108. Hey, boys and girls. This was the perfect warming up for the next two games. Too bad they lost but not all is lost (yet), it just got a bit tighter and more nerve wracking, that’s all. Don’t stop believing in the quality of this squad, they just need a bit more luck. As for today, you could say that if it wasn’t for bad luck, they wouldn’t have had any luck at all.

    Chins up and all that. It’s only the Germans they face in the next game.

  109. Oh, and fantastic picture. Says it all: Party has been postponed until further notice although with an increasing chance of total cancellation but we’re not going there yet. There is still some hope lingering on the horizon.

  110. Hate to break it to you guys but….it all over now!

    Sure we created “29 chances”, but how many of those where actually clear chances? Not many if I recall, unless you view shooting it up to the stands, or shooting it to the keeper hands as “chances”.

    RVP was the flop of the match hands down. He has been doing this on a regular basis for years now! I don’t know how BvM can still pick him over Hunter. My starting formation for Germany will be

    ———— Stek ————————
    Wiel — John — Mati/Vlaar — Boula (as extra defender)
    ——- De jong —Van Bommel————–
    Rooben —– Wesley — Ibi
    ———— Hunter ————–

    Or if BvM still wants to use RVP then it should be….

    ———— Stek ————————
    Wiel — John — Mati/Vlaar — Boula (as extra defender)
    ——- Wesley —Van Bommel————–
    Rooben —– RVP — Ibi
    ———– Hunter ————–

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