In 5 days we’ll know. Whether we’re out of the World Cup or whether we are still hanging in.

It’s been a while, since Oranje missed both an EC and a WC. Tension is rising and the Dutch media (and people) are edgy.

Dick Advocaat has not made the ironclad impression we are used of him. At PSV, his earlier stints at Oranje, the Sunderland escape, the Zenit successes… The headstrong and confident sly fox has been slipping up since taking over from the much maligned Blind and his current choices also result in frowns all around.

Against France, he failed to make defensive changes when we were 2-0 down and without a hope in the world. The search for a late goal resulted in two more goals conceded with the known impact on goal difference. After the match, it appeared as if Dick was unaware of the goal difference importance. His gamble to hope for a Van Persie moment of brilliance also didn’t work out, with the Fener striker out with a knee injury.

Against Bulgaria, with 25 minutes to go, again, Dick failed to make changes. This time, offensive changes were needed as every goal counted and we could have gone for a 5-1 win, for sure.

arjen dick

Surely, Dick is now fully aware that every goal scored counts, but after a courtship of Klaas Jan Huntelaar, the Ajax striker saw his name omitted from the squad. Dick didn’t believe in too many central striker and he opted for Janssen and Dost, with either Babel or Locadia as the pinch hitter. Babel deserves his call up for me, but Locadia only impressed once this season with his four goals vs an unlucky FC Utrecht.

And now Dost is sidelined thanks to a practice injury to the knee, Huntelaar would have been a great option B for the striker position. Too late.

I personally believe we have one defender too many (Veltman?) and we are one forward/midfielder short. Locadia won’t be the Oranje saviour. I would personally always selected Sneijder, if he’s fit. The fact that he hasn’t played for weeks… Against France, I would not have used Sneijder (but would have opted for a 4 man dynamic midfield of Vilhena/Van Ginkel/Klaassen type players. But against Belarus, surely, Sneijder could be of use for the last 25 minutes? The opponent getting tired, bring in Sneijder and let him play his passing game. His corner kicks and free-kicks will always be threatening. I’m convinced he doesn’t need weeks of match-play to hit a dead ball.

DOST knie

His leadership off the pitch will be missed too. He’s been our talisman for so long and Oranje’s true skipper.

Another player I’d like to see asap, is Frenkie de Jong. Maybe not as a starter, but this kid has something unique (like Sneijder). His first pass is always vertical and he has the balls to play with risk and pizzazz.

According to the media, Cillesen will start. Janmaat and Blind will be full backs and Hertha’s Karim Rekik and Virgil van Dijk are the central defenders. The midfield will consist of Vilhena, Propper and Wijnaldum, with Robben/Janssen/Babel up top. As you know, Strootman is out.

I can see this work. Robben and Babel will keep the central defenders busy allowing Janssen to roam. The full backs will provide the wide option, like Blind demonstrated versus Bulgaria and like Janmaat does where ever he plays.

Wijnaldum will play in a controlling way, like Vilhena, with timed runs into the box. Propper again, will play the false striker behind Janssen.

I believe a 0-4 win will be possible, but the circumstances aren’t great. The team lacks cohesion, confidence is brittle and we lack options (Dost, no Huntelaar, no Sneijder). And it’s cold in Belarus. Very cold.

If we score in the first 20 minutes, we can get to a 0-4 or better score, but if it remains 0-0 for a long time, we might have to keep the fingers crossed for a 0-1 win.

janssen francde

It’s tempting to believe that Luxembourg will contain Sweden (in Sweden) but it’s wishful thinking. Normally, Sweden will win this game with at least 3 goals difference. And don’t think France will slip up again. Won’t happen.

There is one thing I’m uncertain about. The rules are not that clear. Once the group games have been played, the results against the worst nation will be scrapped. Including the goals. If that is Belarus – which makes sense if Holland beats them with good numbers – the goals will be taken out of the equation. Sweden scored 8 goals vs Belarus. Which means we will have a better goal difference than Sweden, provided we beat Sweden coming Tuesday. Which is also not a cert, by the way.

But this does mean that we need to look at the different scenarios, because Luxembourg could also be the last in the group. We took 6 points from them, while Sweden drew against them. We will lose more points in this case.

I am not sure if this is all correct, so I’m open to your comments.

But even if we end up second in the group, we could well be the worst second of all. In which case, we won’t get a chance to go to the World Cup. Otherwise, we do get this play-off game and we’ll most likely get an opponent of strength (Italy for instance, or Portugal). Qualification is still a long way out.

robbe promes

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192 responses to “The moment of truth for Oranje….”

  1. Depay9 is the best says:

    Great article again Jan. I’m still upset depay isn’t starting. He consistently destroys awful teams like Belarus and Sweden. If he plays there’s no doubt in my mind he would have a huge impact

  2. wilson says:

    I’m not convinced with this lineup.Propper ahead of Toornstra and Van Ginkel on what.Jus because he was in the right place vs Bulgaria and scored. This is the type of game where goals are guaranteed with hunterlaar. When did Turkish league surpass eredivisie. Was watching Babel in the training videos for NT. He looks fast but his ball control is quite average especially when players are on him. looks like this selection is based on scoring goals only and not on what players bring to the game overall.

    Football-Oranje editor Michael Bell’s Prediction

    Sadly, Netherlands World Cup chances aren’t totally in their hands anymore with Oranje left relying on neighbours Luxembourg to do them a massive favour in their game with Sweden, that will be over by kick-off in Minsk. A big Sweden win will leave Netherlands needing to match/better that result to give them any real chance on Tuesday.

    A win just simply isn’t enough. Netherlands need goals, goals and more goals. Whether, they can do that, though, is another question. The lack of creativity in the midfield leaves me a bit worried, with Netherlands having difficulty breaking down tight defences in recent matches.

    With Belarus having nothing to play for, I am confident that Netherlands will win but whether the margin will be enough is another question.

  3. Balkan says:

    It takes big balls and strong mentality to qualify in this situation of which we have none. The only way for sth to happen is if Lux shocks Sweden.
    I even fear Belarus will surprise us. If we don’t score in the first 20 mins expect a tight game. I am almost sure we will concede due to some stupid mistake which we can’t seem to avoid. In my opinion it is over but I will keep dreaming.

  4. Emmanual says:

    We can blame ourselves oly Coz
    Frnace drew vs Belarus and Luxumburg…they lost againts sweden…All we had to do that was just win other 8games and drew with france and qualify with 26 points as topper in the group…
    But we made horrendous mistakes by doing.
    1-Appointing Blind as coach..
    2-Blind was playing ringa ringa rose by repeatedly selecting nonperforming players..BMI,stekelnburg was wrong choice ,strootman should have benched at least,Dost should not have played at all.We saw difference between Promes and Depay vs France…
    3-Individual mistakes
    –a) Strootman vs Sweden
    –B)stekelenburg stupidity
    –C)selection of BMI and Deligt at wrong game.
    –D)Not selecting some really good players..

  5. Emmanual says:

    Do scrap out the non performing ones such as klassen,Dost,Depay,Huntlaar,BMI and strootman..
    Never think about veltman as RB etc…..
    Vanginkel an Propper are eternal brothers,they have a funtastic mental connection…we must use such chemistry..Since Janssen is out of form why cannt we use Propper as shadow striker like this
    —-Babel——Propper——-Roben
    ————Vanginkel————-
    —–Vilhena———Toonstra——
    Blind—-Reikik—-Virgil—–Tete
    ———-Cillessen——————-
    it seems like Advocate doesnt like toonstra and he is getting omitted so often for no reason…
    on bench
    Locadia—–Janssen—-Wijnaldum
    ———-Frenkie dejong————
    —–Van de beek—-St juste——–
    Williams———————Karsdorp/Janmaat
    ——–Mensah—-Devrij—————
    ————Padt———————–

  6. Emmanual says:

    Iceland,Poland are on the verge of qualification while Denmark has assured second spot….
    Even with current low quality players we wre better than these teams…We were fu@##ked up by
    KNVB-For selecting blind
    Blind for selecting crap ones and not coaching/organizing the team..
    Some pathetically played players …

    • Depay9 is the best says:

      If only they actually played depay we would have easily came first in the group. Look at the games depay played. We won 5-0 vs luxembourg and he scored two goals after coming on as a substitute in the 3-1 Luxembourg win. He is the key to scoring goals

      • Emmanual says:

        What was ur Depay doing against France???
        Stekelnberg gave a goal for France from out of the blue…He should not be in the team at all…
        What was strootman doing in those matches??let forgive his mistake vs sweden…
        Oh my God when did we had clean sheet when we played BMI….
        over all Blind was a pathetic coach…
        it was coaching problem….at first…the wrong choice Danny blind…

  7. Jad says:

    I want to clarify one thing:

    The results against the last team is eliminated only when Deciding the worst second team within the 9 groups, deciding the second place finisher in every group is calculated based on the 10 games that all 5 teams played against each other in the same group.

  8. Jad says:

    Lets hope today ( game 9) the following scenario to happen,

    Bosnia must draw or loose against Belgium
    Sweden must draw or narrow win against luxemborg
    Netherlands win big against belarus

    • Emmanual says:

      Bosnia is on 9th spot…its hard for them….to be 8 th best….
      Sweden/Holland both can be the 8th best team…We/Sweden might surpass northern ireland as well….
      first we have to beat Sweden and belarus ..Belarus can be beaten with Roben and Babel…for 6-0 at best..but how much the sweden will score…in their own backyard..??

    • Emmanual says:

      the issue is 6 goal difference,today it might shoot up to 10 or 9….So lets think that we score 5–But its still 5-0 goaldifference..if we beat 3-0 to sweden we can bring that down to level and on head to head we won it over sweden and we could make it…But can we beat sweden??..

  9. Yan says:

    only miracle can save Holland. I’m really looking forward to see the starting 11;

    Seriously , We need an all attack team. With virgil van dijk back, I don’t mind to have 3 defenders

  10. Depay9 is the best says:

    I’m final prediction for this game is a 7-0 win. I would be surprised if it’s any less. It probably would be 15+ goals scored if Memphis was in the starting 11

  11. Yan says:

    Please anyone has realiable link to watch steamlive?

  12. Srinjoy says:

    Sweden already scored. Mathematically speaking, Holland vs Belarus is inconsequential

  13. Emmanual says:

    1-0 with in 15 minutes

  14. Balkan says:

    Sweden vs Lux doesn’t matter. As long as we beat Belarus 15-0 will be fine. I predict we will be ahead 2-0 until the 70th minute when big dick introduces Depay who scores 13 goals in 20 mins. I wonder what some people here smoke but surely seems like great stuff. Keep puffing.

    • Emmanual says:

      thats should be equal to winning WC in my book…

      • Balkan says:

        Or we can just beat Belarus 1-0 today and demolish Sweden 10-0 in the last game. but we need to play Depay from the beginning vs Sweden. I don’t think he will have a hard time smashing 5 past these sucking Swedes in the first half alone. We are on the way. Fear no more.

  15. Yan says:

    3-0. as expected. Sweden is scoring a goal every 10 min.

  16. Yan says:

    can anyone tell me how on earth did Luxembourg draw France.

  17. AZ-forever says:

    Sweden is very well organized team. It will be very difficult for Oranje….Let’s just see how we will play against Belarus.

    • Emmanual says:

      i would kick the @AS22@#$SS of Hugo loris as well….stupid guy …

    • Balkan says:

      Organized and methodical. These guys have cool heads and know what they’re supposed to do.
      I really hope that after missing this WC we somehow find a couple of gems like Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard a million years ago around who we can build a new squad. Once Robben retires this will be a bunch of mediocre players. Even Daley Blind is now looking to Turkey for some play time. Oh well.

  18. Yoyogi says:

    This is a humbling moment. Dutch football needs a major wake up moment and this is it! It is failing on all levels. Club and Country. Something needs to be done. Nothing has changed since failing to qualify for Euro 16.

    The quality of players is not there any more but qualification could still have been possible even with the current talent available.

    Tactics need to change. Coaches need to be practical and not stubbornly hold on to tradition or maintaining identity.

    Player development and transfer policies need to be worked out from the ground up. Clubs have to find a way to hold on to their promising talent and not be forced to sell them cheap.

    They need more investment. Money rules the modern game of football. They can’t match the likes of PSG and Man City but they have to do much better than whatever they are doing now.

    I could go on and on about so many issues and mistakes of the past.

    The bottomline is that we need change now!

  19. AZ-forever says:

    it will be virtually impossible to eliminate this current deficit….(5:0)

  20. wissor3 says:

    5-0 for Sweden… its all over people. End of an era… Robben, RvP, Sneijder all to retire

  21. wissor3 says:

    6-0 two penalties… one in the 9th minute which opened the flood gates. That disallowed goal against Sweden cost us qualifications.

    • AZ-forever says:

      Believe me, it is not a disallowed goal cost us qualification. If that was not a case, something else would come up. Football affairs in the Netherlands need reanimation.

  22. AZ-forever says:

    Good job Sweden 7:0

  23. Miguel Rosado says:

    We are 99% out right now.

  24. Yan says:

    Well done Sweden they are showing us once a team we were

    Sweden fully deserve to be in the World Cup. Yes we will beat them in the next game , with a small margin. But they will go to Russia. We will watch the World Cup at home

    Painful isn’t it ? As I said before , we can only blame ourselves

    • AZ-forever says:

      I think Oranje will lose to Sweden at home. The same situation like last Euro qualification when we thought we will at home Czech and Iceland. We lost both…

  25. AZ-forever says:

    I would say 100% unless KNVB bribes Lukashenko and he commands Belarus to lose Oranje 20:0

  26. Eduardorw says:

    Guys, how many goals we need to score in the next two games?

    We must consider that each goal we score against Sweden they drop two goals.

  27. wissor3 says:

    What makes you think Sweden didn’t bribe anyone? The disallowed goal… the goal from midfield against France in the last minute of the game… the 8-0 against Belarus and now another one

  28. AZ-forever says:

    I remember for WC 1986 Mexico qualification, we comfortably won Cyprus 6:0 and thought we are out of reach. HOwever, Spain won 12:0 Malta and overcame us…. I think at this moment intense negotiation is going on between KNVB and Lukashenko.

  29. Jad says:

    Ok sweden win big, here is the scenario for holland of winning both games for positive goal difference in both games

    Holland vs sweden: +1 gd then holland has to win today: +12 gd
    Holland vs sweden: +2 gd then holland has to win today: +10 gd
    Holland vs sweden: +3 gd then holland has to win today: + 8 gd
    Holland vs sweden: +4 gd then holland has to win today: +6 gd

  30. Guillaume vB says:

    Relax guys, France will lose tonight and all will be well.

  31. Yan says:

    Congratulations to Sweden once again .

    Let’s talk who we shall support next ? England or Belgium maybe ?

    Shall we go to support Belgium?

  32. AZ-forever says:

    First 10 minutes have shown that NED will not be able to win big….

  33. Yan says:

    Belarus are playing very organized and they have a solid defense. I got a feeling that it would be even very hard for Holland to score the first goal

  34. Balkan says:

    Blaming others for your failures is loser mentality. You need to look in the mirror and say to yourself “I suck right now but it is all my fault. I will pick myself up and get on my feet again.” Blaming the ref for a disallowed goal in the very FIRST game of the campaign is stupid. How about the countless mistakes and errors from both players and management?! This team right now can lose to any team however low in FIFA rankings. By the way I bet Holland has never been this low in rankings since maybe WW2. Sweden bribing the referee ?!?!?! Give me a break.

    • wissor3 says:

      Go fuck yourself Balkan

    • Demi says:

      no question about it, bad calls happen all the time. they are part of the game. aside from the overall bad picture of dutch football the last few years, the more specific mistakes in this campaign have been our own mistakes…

      the appointment of Blind after it was obvious he is not meant to be a head coach (smart, knows soccer, great assistant but not head chef) was the biggest mistake and the game against Bulgaria in Sofia.

      No excuses for sure but it is not over yet and we need to try till the end.

  35. AZ-forever says:

    aweful…

  36. Guillaume vB says:

    Mediocre…

  37. Yan says:

    1-0! Davy Propper!

  38. Yan says:

    If we can score another 2 goals before half-time…

  39. Demi says:

    First one in, hope dies last…

    Some good news in our longshot, in the Group H the second team will be way below us in points.

    Some more bad news, France is already 1-0

    Always Oranje till the very end my friends.

  40. Balkan says:

    Could easily be up 2-0 if Babel and Janssen didn’t play dumb and dumber.

  41. Yan says:

    Janssen never does anything good.

    Not in a million years would he get anywhere close to Van Persie/ Van NIstelrooy / Huntelaar, Bergkamp

  42. Balkan says:

    Babel, Janssen are almost comical.

  43. AZ-forever says:

    we play very slow..

  44. Demi says:

    Babel hasn’t played in the NT for 6 years and should be substituted… He doesn’t fit.

    The Belarussian goalkeeper seems very unstable to long shots we should trying more often.

    Janssen is good, sorry I will have to disagree.

  45. AZ-forever says:

    I have to admit, Janssen is playing very bad today….

  46. Yan says:

    very very solid defense from Belarus.

    It’s like Sweden had been paying them.

    Sweden could score a goal every 10min.
    HOlland scores one goal in 45min.

    that makes the difference on who’s the better team

  47. Balkan says:

    Honestly I thought Belarus was a much better team. The fact that we only lead 1-0 against this sack of shit tells volumes.

  48. Balkan says:

    I feel for Robben. What an end to an otherwise spectacular international career.

  49. Tomy14 says:

    What minute did Wijnaldum receive the red card?

  50. fraiquin says:

    Seriously – has anyone told them we need to score some goals? Also, how many times do we have to pass back to Cillessen?

  51. AZ-forever says:

    I think, Memphis needs to be brought

  52. Eduardorw says:

    Any ideas to make this miracle possible? Dost? Depay? Jesús Christ?

  53. wissor3 says:

    Why is promes not in?

  54. Tomy14 says:

    Get Wijnaldum out you Dick(head) otherwise i see us winning the most 2 or 3. If we get another creative midfielder in who offers more in the offensive game than Wijnaldums back passes then we have a chance for a few more goals. How can he not see this!! It was obvious in the game against Bulgaria and its the same thing now…

  55. wissor3 says:

    This is quite laughable. We need bas dost

  56. Tomy14 says:

    Extremely frustrating watching Janssen!

  57. wissor3 says:

    Must admit, Cillessen is getting better and better

  58. wissor3 says:

    Hahahahaha 1-1 fantastic

  59. Emmanual says:

    belarus…………………

  60. Yan says:

    Belarus are so happy to score that goal like they are going to the World cup

  61. Eduardorw says:

    This is incredible

  62. Balkan says:

    1-1
    My friends I would rather have this nightmare over today. Down and out.

  63. Yan says:

    Dick really doesn’t like depay I can tell you now.

    He rather gives the chance to Dost??? wtf

  64. Miguel Rosado says:

    All I can say is we de serie to be out of the fucking World Cupo. This team is shit. We don’t have good players. We are in probably the biggest crisis in Dutch football history.

  65. Balkan says:

    One more thing. is it possible for someone to kick dickhead out of the stadium in the most humiliating way possible?!

  66. Balkan says:

    Belarus finally wakes up and realizes that they’re not playing Holland but Curacao. On the ropes.

  67. wissor3 says:

    What do you expect Advocaat to do about Sweden’s 8-0?? This game was over before it started

  68. Eduardorw says:

    No pressing, no passion,

  69. Yan says:

    Believe me, Belarus are going for a Win

  70. Yan says:

    and seriously, I hope I will NEVER EVER see Janssen’s FACE again in Oranje shirt!

  71. Tomy14 says:

    @Emmanual Do you know why Wijnaldum is always against 4 Belarus players? Because he is incapable of making a quick pass right away. He has to control the ball, think what to do with it for 5 minutes and then he ends up losing it or passing it back.

    You already said it yourself he’s offensive game is weak and he lacks vision then why the hell is he playing on a game that we need goals?

    Tiju you make no sense….

  72. Yan says:

    Belarus are fighting like 11 hungry Lions.

    In contrast to Luxembourg… they were raising the white flag against Sweden.

  73. Eduardorw says:

    It is easy to say this now, but Blind would done a better job than Dick in these games

  74. Eduardorw says:

    Would have done

  75. Bret from SoCal says:

    “For you the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for thee.” -Rush (Losing It)

    So sad…

  76. Eduardorw says:

    Really Depay???!!!!

  77. Eduardorw says:

    What a shit counter attack

  78. Eduardorw says:

    Good.. at least he scores

  79. Yan says:

    what is it that Belarus have, and Luxembourg haven’t?

    I swear this Belarus team, they are playing like for their lives

  80. Eduardorw says:

    For next game I would start with Dost, Babel and Robben up front

  81. Bret from SoCal says:

    Belarus and other teams have been playing us hard for the same reason underdogs and lower tier teams do when they know they are facing a once powerful team on the decline. Revenge.

  82. Yan says:

    Ok, if my match isn’t wrong, we simply need to Win 6-0 against Sweden. Then we will go to Russia 2018, simply as that.

  83. wissor3 says:

    We are going to lose against Sweden… they will sit back and pick us off on the counter all day on Tuesday. I expect a big loss

  84. Jad says:

    +7 win against sweden is needed, we are out

  85. Guillaume vB says:

    THEY. DO. NOT. WANT. IT.

    Once again, no passion, no urgency. Example: beginning of first half, throw-in in Belarus’ third of the pitch. One player takes the ball, decides that, nah, better let it fall, somebody else picks it, waits and waits for ANYBODY to run out of his marker. 15 seconds wasted. Belarus is all back.

  86. Eduardorw says:

    What would you do for the next game?

    Bring fresh blood ? (Van de beek?)

  87. Eduardorw says:

    I just hope this situation starts a revolution in the federation, league and clubs…. we need a revolution as the Germans did after WC 94.

    But I don’t know if this is possible. If the people in federation and clubs want to change

    • Yoyogi says:

      I agree with this 100%.

      Another thing we need is to find more revenue streams for the clubs. What’s happening in the Champions league and Europa league is embarrassing. I wish we had a couple of Dutch billionaires take over Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV and inject some cash. Raise players wages so they can hold on to the promising ones and develop them well. To be the best, you have to play against the best.

  88. wissor3 says:

    Advocaat out.. Koeman In. Rebuild.

    • vikram says:

      I am sure you haven’t seen Everton play this year. As an Everton and Netherlands fan, I can tell you that watching Everton play this year is worse than watching Orange.
      So you don’t want Koeman anywhere close to the national team.
      A complete overhaul of the Dutch team is needed. Enough of living in the past and dreaming we will be mastering the world with “Total Football”. We need a foreign (preferably Italian or German) coach who has no ties to these stupid obsessions.
      Anyway, the recovery if it happens will take years. Realistically, 2022 WC is what we should aim for.

  89. Yoyogi says:

    Mission impossible against Sweden?

    Miracles do happen but the Swedes are playing well. This Oranje team just can’t defend. I don’t see our defense shutting out Sweden. Moving forward we need a dedicated defensive coach.

    Even though we won tonight, the players body language says it all. They were just going through the motions. They looked like they wanted the whole thing to be over as soon as possible.

    Back when Oranje missed out in 86 and 02, talented players quickly established themselves. This time around, it doesn’t look so bright.

  90. Miguel Rosado says:

    I am sorry for my last post. I was so angry with our player’s performance!. What sickens me more is that there is no communication, no leadership in the field, no passion, when they scored the 1st goal they were with their heads down! why?.

    I mean when they really started tring they scored 2 very late goals. If we’d scored at least 2 more goals beating Sweden 4-0 would have been very difficult but more possible.

  91. Miguel Rosado says:

    Janssen is not Oranje material. He is simply not good enough.

  92. JB says:

    I was actually coaching my daughter’s game today and didn’t get to see the Belarus match. That said, I think you know my opinions on this current generation of players.

    At this point, I think we need to recognize what was achieved by the Robben – Sneijder — Van Persie – Van der Vaart generation.

    Runners up at the World Cup in 2010 and Third Place in 2014. The only similar period of success in our history was the Runners up medals in 1974 and 1978.

    Additionally, Wesley Sneijder now has the most appearances all time for Oranje — 132. VDV is fourth with 109, RVP seventh with 102 and Robben 9 with 94. They have represented us very well!

    These guys have carried us for almost a decade, and I’d argue that we probably overachieved during that period.

    It’s time now for a new generation to step up. Maybe some players like Blind, Depay and VVD can stick around for a while and provide some veteran leadership to them, but right now the current 24-30 year old players are simply not good enough. We need to focus on the next generation and start getting the 17-23 year olds experience at the senior international level as quickly as possible.

    Even more important though is development at the youth levels (10-17), and a complete and thorough re-examination of how we have historically produced world class players and how others are doing so now is sorely needed.

    I have hope for the future, and am deeply appreciative of the Sneijder / VDV / RVP / Robben generation, but we need to start fresh now and build again towards greatness!

    • JB says:

      Incidentally, my daughter’s team won 4-0 while missing one of our best players and with my daughter playing out of position at left back.

      I was hoping for a similar result from Oranje!

  93. Depay9 is the best says:

    Alright let’s be honest here. Memphis depay and Robben look like the only people out there with the desire to win. If Advocaat gets off the drugs and plays Memphis and dost hopefully he will realize they are the people who can bring goals and carry the team. A front line of depay dost and Robben would all have enormous chemistry and they would connect very well to score lots of goals. All of you who are saying we are out and dont have a chance are stupid because it’s very possible we can win 6-0.

  94. Depay9 is the best says:

    Mark my words 8-1 win for Holland on Tuesday.

  95. Miguel Rosado says:

    If Holland wins 8-1 I will fly to wherever you are and invite you tons of beers!

  96. Eduardorw says:

    I feel so bad.

    I need to read a pst about the future: the new federation, the new projects, about how we are going to be on the top again… I need to believe again.

    • bobotoh says:

      Holland need to score 7-0 against Sweden. It is impossible. Not to mention that the winning mentality is not there anymore.

      If you can not score 5 to Belarusia, how can you score 7 against Sweden?

    • bobotoh says:

      If we look at Sweden or Iceland, they don’t have any super star players in their team. They can still beat a big team like France or England (Iceland in Euro 2016).

  97. Depay9 is the best says:

    I think maybe we should hire JB as the next manager. His team won 4-0 without their star player and played his daughter out of position and they still had a fantastic game. If he was coach from the start we wouldn’t be in this mess

    • JB says:

      I’ve currently got a under 14 girls team and an under 19 boys team but I could probably squeeze in the Dutch national team. We’d have to play 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 though in honor of JC, and I’d need Tiju’s help to put together a three level depth chart and Depay9 to give our pregame motivational speeches 🙂

  98. Eduardorw says:

    Thinking in the future, KNVB should:

    1. Choose people in charge of the national team and eredivisie, that are aware we have a problem, and are aiming to make changes. No more arrogance and egos fights please.

    2. Identify (talking to hundreds of training and players) what are the characteristics of Dutch football. In other words, define a certain of principles of what is the current Dutch football.

    3. Adapt or develop this principles into a modern football. We need to evolve without loosing our identity.Create the new “Modern football Dutch school”

    4. Create a program to implement this principles. Including training, players development, coaching, etc. Create a guidelines to be implemented by the clubs.

    5. Talk with all the clubs to follow this major guidelines. The clubs should have the freedom to adapt their football, but they should follow the principles of the new, modern Dutch school.

    6. Focus on WC in Qatar, choosing a coach that follow the principles. Not playing players older than 25 years, etc.

    • JB says:

      Agree 100%.

      There is also an economic component that needs to be addressed — namely the continuing decline of the Eredivisie and the movement of players to foreign leagues at increasingly younger ages before any sort of Dutch footballing identity has been established, but I think your list is very good!

      The only thing I would add is to examine what other nations have done in recent years to improve their developmental system — Germany, Belgium and France are continuing to produce top young talent. Let’s learn from them as well.

  99. Demi says:

    Advokaat most likely out after two friendlies that will be played while the eight 2nd bests play the play off games.

    Unless a miracle happens with Sweden but it will not happen.

    New coach maybe on the bench by March to lead the friendlies.

    I am very disappointed, after hearing the 8-0 I knew the extremely difficult became impossible.

    But we have to face the facts. We wouldn’t be able to do anything good in the WK. It would be sad.

    This generation is a flor, unfortunate but true. Especially the midfielders. We might as well focus on the rebuild and hope for a more progressive leadership and better talent.

    It is also true that no matter how good the development system is, it takes luck and chance to produce mega players. Look at Barca’s Macia what have they done lately?

    You don’t get Robben and Sneijder often and their accomplishments in 2010 and 2014 are amazing. Let’s cherish that and hopefully by WK 2022 we will be back.

    • Balkan says:

      Not only is Dick a mediocre coach in today’s soccer reality but he is also demented. How do you go out and say Sweden can’t win 8-0 and then it happens? How can you motivate your opponent like this? Now he says 7-0 against them is not impossible. This guy is mental. He should have retired years ago to a nursing home. Also how do you play like that with Belarus when you know you need goals? You have to go for broke and field as attacking team as it could be. What a crappy coach. In fact I believe our coaches are a bigger problem than players’ quality. This player group is terrible but good enough to be better than Sweden. We have been going from bad to worse since LVG. And there is no light at end of the tunnel. While former players in other countries have turned into good coaches our former greats are mediocre at best. No matter the players if the coach is shit so will be the team too.

      • Demi says:

        We have a coach problem as well. Jan analyzed how our soccer style is a thing of the past and only Peter Bosz plays the new style.

        Sweden was very lucky. That is a fact. Disallowed goal from Dost, lucky equalizer with France… and 8-0 versus Luxemburg that held France to 0-0.

        Dick got the points and scores that are fairly reasonable.

        If you look at the big picture and the totality of things , considering that luck always plays a role and you can’t get all the referees right.. the crucial failure of this team was the game against Bulgaria and even though the players played shit it was the coaching of Blind that doomed us in that game. In a tight tough group, that predetermined our fate. Even a 0-0 and we would qualify…

        Anyhow and even if we qualified this is not a team to watch playing in a WK. We wouldn’t make it out of the group.

        In essence, it is better to know the cold hard truth and attempt a real deep rebuild.

        Let’s hope for a better future.

  100. Emmanual says:

    i think adovacate should stay…He has done good ,really good compared to that Stupid Danny Blind..Things will get better…We need to drop certain players…its not a surprise that we are playing better with out strootman…
    if it was Danny blind he would have sleceted BMI over Reikik and BMI would have made it sure that we concede 2 goals vs even Belarus..thats how Danny blind worked in last 2 years..
    Advocate Got it late …We called him too late..
    i blame Blind and KNVB First..
    Then we should get rid of BMI,Strootman,Dost,Wijanldum as DM.(i like as forward).klassen(another useless).My new striker is Davy propper…he is Fox in the box,so clever ,so accurate finisher..
    Boetius—-Propper—-Wijnaldum
    ———Vanginkel————
    —Van de beek—-Vilhena——-
    Williams——————–karsdorp
    ———Reikik—Virgil————
    ————Cillessen————-
    ========================================
    —-Locadia———Babel————-
    ———–Toonstra—————
    –Frenkike dejong—–Calvin stengs
    ————–Juste——————
    Kongolo—Deligt—-Devrij—-Vanrhijn
    ————-Padt————————
    on stand bye
    Janssen
    Bruma
    Tete
    Ake

  101. AZ-forever says:

    Guys,

    it is very sad but at the same time very interesting stage in the evolution (devolution more correctly) of Dutch soccer. We will witness the second rebirth of Dutch soccer very soon (within coming four years). I am truly excited to see how Dutch football affair will start changing. Historically, Dutch has been considered as the nation that can adapt to any condition. Let’s see what KNVB will undertake.

    Last but not least, I found extremely hilarious Balkan’s comments about Dick Advokaat :))))) I could not stop laughing imagining Dick Advokaat forcefully diagnosed with dementia and placed to the Nursing House.

    We will miss Work Cup 2018 for sure but we will come back very very strong and win 2022 WC in Qatar!!!!! History repeats itself…

    • Depay9 is the best says:

      Finally someone with some sense and knowing the world is gonna end just because of a few off games. Even Chicago Blackhawks had an awful year after winning two straight Stanley cups. And the next year they came back to win another

    • Balkan says:

      I am skeptical about a rebirth anytime soon. Dutch soccer is a victim of today’s global economic reality. Too much money has destroyed the future of many talents who could become great players under normal circumstances. Soccer is super commercial nowadays. It is all about money. On the other hand Belgium and France have a great generation due to African origin players. Maybe this is the way to go. If it comes to that though I won’t be able to support dutch anymore. Decades ago I fell in love with Van Der somethings and not Amrabat, Kalou (nothing against these guys) etc. Anyway let’s hope. A period of calmness and reflection in needed. I hope KNVB takes its time and does a better job.

      • Emmanual says:

        Belgium is not a great team…Lukaku can easily be stopped..only Hazard who is too much skilled on ball ….
        Germany has kroos,Muller,lahm,hummels,only Boetang they had in starting 11 as african player..they are winning it…Germany has class ,i think some dutch players of this generation has it…like Van de beek,frenkie dejong,daley blind,davy propper,etc….

  102. Eduardorw says:

    I don’t agree with the statement that “Jansen Ian not orange material”

    Markus Berg scored three goals yesterday against Luxembourg.

    Is Jansen worse player? I don’t think so. The difference is that Berg play in a TEAM, whereas Jansen play in a summarily of players who are not a team.

    I believe that if Netherlands was a team, Hansen, Wijnaldum or Strootman would be play very well.

    So, the problems is not Jansen, De Light, or any player, the problem is that since Van Gaal we don’t have a team but a bunch of players.

    And all our players are better by far than de Swden players, but they are a team and we don’t

  103. vanfadly says:

    reports say that Nordin, brother of Sofyan, basically revealed that Sofyan has chosen to represent Morocco.

  104. Depay9 is the best says:

    For everyone saying the Netherlands will do trash when we make it to the world cup anyways, you guys are stupid. In 2010 and 2014 we weren’t even expected to make it out of the group stage but they proved them all wrong. Alot can change in a year of even 6 months

    • Eduardorw says:

      Well. I hope you are right, but we need to change a lot in just two days

    • vanfadly says:

      yeah but in that year, we’re really killing it in the qualification.. and we have all the fabulous 4, who can decide the outcome of the match almost on their own (even Robben wasnt that fit in 2010 qualifications).

      now we have Robben only. and totally struggling in this qualifications.

      • Depay9 is the best says:

        Yah but a whole new generation of players are coming. One rough year. In 2020 in Amsterdam we will surely win the euros

        • AZ-forever says:

          Most likely we will miss Euro 2020 too. In the Netherlands not everything is being re-done quickly. It is not Germany, it is the Netherlands. KNVB need to appoint Technical Director first, then new coach, etc

  105. Depay9 is the best says:

    It’s funny how Emmanuel says propper is awful and how he was walking in the France game and how he should never be selected for Oranje. Then he scores 3 goals in the last two international games and all of a sudden propper is his favourite player

    • Emmanual says:

      i still dont propper as midfeilder,he is not my choice,his defensive work is so poor…but he has shown me that he is incredible finisher,a fox in box…So why not him as striker…His goal vs belarus was evidence for that as if that was any other player in orange bar Sneijder or roben would have flew it over the bar..

  106. manoj kumar says:

    The oranje goal keeper will have to be on fire at the next match against sweden and oranje will have to take risks from moment one to have any advantage so go all out to win is the strategy. Play like it is the final of a tournament put everything into it.

  107. wilson says:

    It is the current u19 generation which has and looks set to produce the next superstars for NT and if the development and transition goes smoothly, around 2026 is year when NT would be flourishing with their next and New golden generation.

    Malen,kadioglu,Piroe,Nunnely,Schuurs,Pierre,meulenhof,aboukhlal,add kluivert,De ligt. This group of players have the potential to make it big in another 4 years of time and let’s hope with some of the current NT players like Van Dijk, van Ginkel,Ake,Sinkgraven,Karsdorp,Hateboer (Atalanta),Riedewald,
    , stengs (AZ), will add a good depth in the team come 2022 WC

    2020 ECS again looks will be similar affair to.that of this one as the current u21s are in the same boat as the senior team.

    One thing that strike the most about u19s are their physic and I think they would weigh out the u21s in this department. Piroe has that similarity to that of likaku typo where he always likes to bully defenders. Nunnely,Malen in front also have a good built and are fast as well.

    I’m putting all my money on this generation plus with a good modern.day coach.2026.

  108. Yoyogi says:

    Danny Blind should be the #1 responsible person at the end of the day for Holland missing the World Cup. He failed to qualify for Euro 2016 and he should have been fired right there and then. Huge mistake by the KNVB for tolerating such incompetence. Instead Blind continued the same strategies in a tough World Cup qualification group.

    He lacked the quality of the past Oranje players to choose from (I’ll give him that) but his lack of leadership, improper team selection, lack of tactical adjustments during games compounded the situation from bad to total failure.

    Advocaat was handed a difficult situation. The damage had already been done by Blind. The 4-0 defeat to France and his lack of adjustments to cut his losses dragged the team into further disappointment. For the quality that they have, France have struggled scoring goals lately. 0-0 versus Luxembourg and 1-0 vs Bulgaria. A motivated and defensively organized Oranje could have managed a 0-0 draw. That one point could have been crucial. Making stupid comments in the media daring an opponent to score 8 goals just showed his lack of focus.

    At the end of the day, the minute you have to rely on others for your qualification (hoping Luxembourg doing us a favor) the plot has already been lost. Right now, the only thing that can be done is cope with this disappointment and hope that things change in the future.

  109. AZ-forever says:

    It is already official: Sofyan Amrabat has chosen to play for Morocco.

    http://www.football-oranje.com/amrabat-rejects-netherlands-advances-chooses-morocco/

  110. JB says:

    Teams that have already qualified for the 2018 World Cup:

    Russia
    Iran
    South Korea
    Japan
    Saudi Arabia
    Nigeria
    Egypt
    Mexico
    Costa Rica
    Brazil
    Germany
    Poland
    England
    Spain
    Belgium

  111. JB says:

    Not to continue to dwell on our current player selection, but when I look back over the years, whenever we have had any success at the international level, we’ve had top class players comprising the spine of our team – CB, CM, CF – plus some quality wide attackers and defenders.

    I’d consider our best years internationally to include 1974, 1978, 1988, 1992, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2010 and 2014.

    During those years, our best central defenders were Haan, Krol, R. Koeman, Rijkaard, Stam, and F. de Boer, although the quality has since dropped off somewhat over the last 10 years.

    During those same years, our best midfielders were van Hanegem, Neeskens, Wouters, Gullit, Jonk, Cocu, van der Vaart, and Sneijder.

    During those same years, our star forwards and best attacking players were Cruyff, Rep, Rensenbrink, van Basten, Bergkamp, Overmars, Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, van Persie and Robben.

    Admittedly, there were plenty of solid players that rotated in and around these stars who were not quite at the same level – Reizinger, van Tiggelen, van Bronckhorst, Kieft, Kuyt, E. Koeman, Vanenburg, Winter, Davids, N. de Jong, etc., but they were complimentary players who made significant contributions.

    Nowadays, however, we just don’t seem to be producing the top level players anymore – Since 2010, the following players have made their international debuts and have at least 10 appearances for the Netherlands:

    Blind
    Wijnaldum
    Strootman
    Martins Indi
    Lens
    Cillessen
    de Vrij
    Depay
    Janmaat
    Bruma
    Willems
    Promes
    Narsingh
    Pieters
    Clasie
    Veltman
    Dost
    de Guzman
    Klaassen
    L. de Jong
    van Dijk
    Janssen
    Fer

    To me, virtually all of these players are complimentary players (the Aron Winters and Richard Witschges of the team) rather than the stars. The hope for Strootman and Depay to become legitimate stars has pretty much evaporated, but maybe there’s still time for Promes, de Vrij and van Dijk.

    The next wave, who have made their debut since 2014 (not including Promes, Dost, Klaassen, van Dijk and Janssen, each of whom was already named above) include:

    Zoet
    Berghuis
    Tete
    Bazoer
    Propper
    Vilhenna
    Kongolo
    Riedewald
    Karsdorp
    Ramselaar
    Hoedt
    El Ghazi
    Brenet
    de Roon
    de Ligt
    Boetius
    Rekik
    Hendrix
    Ake

    Do you see any future stars here to make up the spine of the next great Oranje? I really don’t.

    Finally, just as a point of reference, in the 80s, Ronald Koeman made his international debut at age 20, while Rijkaard, Gullit and van Basten all had their first Oranje appearance at age 19. In the 90s, Frank de Boer’s debut came as a 20 year old, while Bergkamp’s was at 21 and Kluivert’s was at 18. Finally in the 2000s, van der Vaart was at 18, Sneijder and Robben at 19 and van Persie at 22.

    Our current players in this age range are Ramselaar (21), Tete (21), van de Beek (20), Fosu Mensah (19) and de Ligt (18). Perhaps they will be the next generation of stars, or maybe the players who are coming after them will be.

    But as of right now, the current generation of players appearing for our national team (born between 1985 and 1994) are not at the same level of those who came before them. And until that changes for the core of our team, it will be very difficult for us to compete internationally…

    • Eduardorw says:

      I would focus on 21 years old adding some great players younger than 26, such Blind or Van Dijk and De Vrij.

      For instance, Kardoshp and Tete over Jannmat. Depay and Promes over Babel. Kluiver, Berguis over Robben.. etc.

      pd: for me Davids was a world class holding midfield. One of the greatest. Why do you think the opposite?

      • JB says:

        You’re probably right regarding Davids. It’s a tough line to draw. He and I are very close in age, so maybe I didn’t give him enough respect.

        Late 90s-early 2000s he was certainly a dominant player for us.

  112. Miguel Rosado says:

    I am reading your comments and all I can say is that I love this blog. It’s even psychologically therapeutic.

    My analysis:

    This qualifying campaing everything went wrong form Blind’s huge tactical mistakes and lack of leadership, many injuries all the time, and wrong referee decisions. And the obvious fact that the new generation is still not as good as Robben’s (at least not yet).

    Blind was sacked too late. The damage was already done.

    Advocaat has done OK. I believe against Bulgarie and Belarus we could’ve won bigger. And losing against France 4-0 was so bad!.

    I believe myself and all of us have been very harsh on some players like Janssen, Wijnaldum, Strootman….I believe the system and the tactical plan has been so bad that these players are not playing well.

    1) We have good goalkeepers.
    2) Our defense is good but we couldn’t play the same defense in consecutive games. Too many injuries!!!. But we have a good defensive line with Van Dijk, De Vrij, Tete, Hoedt, De Ligt, Blind, Aanholt.
    3) OUR MIDFIELD. Here is where I am really worried. Especially because we do not have defensive midfielders. I’d have used Marten de Roon but Advocaat simply doesn’t watch the Serie A. In the near future I hope Frenkie de Jong, Van de Beek and some other can step up for Oranje.
    4) The attacking line is OK. We have enough talent with Depay, Promes, Locadia, J.Kluivert, Janssen. Where we do lack real talent is in the center forward spot.

    We are not playing as a team, we lack passion, we don’t have a leader on the pitch. I remember Davids, Cocu, De Boer shouting and giving instructions.

    • Eduardorw says:

      agree Miguel. This blog is a therapy for me after this huge disappointment.

      I feel I need to write and focus on the future of the team to overcome this sadness that I feel for not going to the WC.

  113. Emmanual says:

    I THINK Roben,Vaart,RVP,Sneijder,Huntlaar,Babel,Dejong,Generation underachived considering their huge class..
    Germany and spain won everything in our fab 4 era..
    We had the better playera than Germans and spain still we lost it..
    How
    2006—Stubbornness benching RVN for kuyt..
    2008—Injury to Roben,RVP(we canntwin with out them)
    2010–Stubbornness/ignorance..kuyt for Vaart..
    2012–biased coach Son in law for Strootman
    2014–Inury to Dejong,RVP bad Luck..
    2016–Blind-Hiddnki stupidity

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