It’s been another eventful week for the Dutch football fans. We are smashing the coefficiency ratios with our tremendous results in Europe (Ajax, Feyenoord, AZ, Vitesse, PSV) and we might see all teams surviving the usually devastating winter break!
Ajax got a bit lucky, Feyenoord was able to adapt to the muddy pitch best, PSV had to do without creative influx from Gotze, Propper and Gakpo while Vitesse was close to getting another result vs Spurs. AZ has found their mojo again and has been playing some excellent football (again). This weekend, it’s Arne Slot vs his old club…
And our master coach Louis van Gaal announced his definitive squad for this last World Cup qualification block, leaving Krul out (wouldn’t it be better to get an experienced goalie in, alongside young Bijlow and Drommel? Cillesen even?). Owen Wijndal loses out against Malacia and Luuk de Jong is not longer needed as pinch hitter as Louis has decided on Memphis as #9, knowing that Gakpo, Malen, Danjuma, Lang are excellent options on the left. Berghuis is still the only real right winger, (“real”) with Bergwijn also dropping out.
When van Gaal was announced as the new NT manager, his third stint, he said the following during a press conference: “Who else would there be to take this job?”. Telling words. And add to that the oft heard criticism here, by the Dutch Bleeders: “Why always a Dutch coach??” , “Blind and De Boer are useless, headless chickens who don’t deserve to be alive” and more of that :-).
Stam quit his job at Feyenoord when he realised he couldn’t play how he wanted…
This is inspired by a VI article by Pieter Zwart about the lack of Dutch coaches breaking through to the absolute top.
We used to have Beenhakker (Ajax, Feyenoord, Real Madrid), Hiddink (PSV, Valencia, Real Madrid), Advocaat (PSV, Zenit), Van Gaal (Barca, Bayern, Man U), Van Marwijk (Feyenoord, Borussia Dortmund), Ten Cate (Ajax, Chelsea, Barca) to name a few, while Cruyff and Van Hanegem and Wim Jansen at a certain point felt “enough was enough”.
I think it is fair enough to have a critical look at the Dutch trainers course. Very expensive, and very ineffective. The vision of this course by the KNVB has shifted through time and it has been further tainted by privileges for ex players.
Jaap Stam had enough. The class room lessons didn’t work for Jaap. He started to complain in interviews and the media pressure was such that the KNVB decided to offer him and other ex-players a custom course. And it’s probably “typically Dutch” to feel above and beyond these courses. When Van Hanegem was asked what he had picked up from the course, his typical sardonic response was “my cigarette butts after the course”. Cruyff even completely refused to take any course, saying that spending 20 years in a dressing room is worth more thn 2,000 diplomas. He was Ajax’ head coach but decided to call himself Technical Director so he could bypass the Dutch KNVB regulations.
Based on that feedback, the KNVB decided to offer short track courses to ex players, with 50 caps or more. Marco van Basten retired from football at 29. He took many years off and when he returned in 2002, he wanted to become a coach. The KNVB offered him a short course and within the year he had the highest diploma in Dutch coaching. After one season as coach of Ajax 2, with friend Van ‘t Schip, the KNVB appointed them both as NT managers.
Two national team managers
Now, Van Basten says: “And there I was. Boom. National Team manager. I wasn’t ready for that. I simply lacked the experience to be comfortable as a head coach.” In his autobiography he admits he missed hours and hours of sleep, purely from stress. In Sweden 2004, when he made his debut, he had completely forgotten to bring his analysis notes of the opponent. He was not particularly strong in communications with his players and decided in 2014 that coaching was really not his thing.
Frank Rijkaard won the Champions League with Barca, but got relegated with Sparta. Ronald Koeman had good (Ajax, Feyenoord, Southampton, Oranje) and bad spells (Valencia, Barcelona, Everton, AZ) while Cocu and Frank de Boer saw their reputations tarnished abroad. Jan Wouters, Ruud Gullit, Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Clarence Seedorf, Jaap Stam and Edgar Davids all took blows in their careers. As Co Adriaanse said: “A good horse doesn’t make a good jockey!”
Bergkamp, Cocu and Kluivert with their diplomas
The KNVB created a kartel. Ex players were short tracked through the course while non-players had an extremely difficult time trying to get through to the course. Someone like Julian Nagelsmann or Jose Mourinho would have struggled to get their diploma in The Netherlands. Even Arne Slot and Danny Buijs struggled to get in, in 2017! In that year, the rules were re-considered, which als gave Sjors Ultee (Fortuna Sittard coach) the opportunity to snug in.
Our last biggest club success in the highest competition was Ajax’ Van Gaal in 1995. Now we look back and know that a change in rules in 1992 was key to Ajax’ success. The goalie was no longer allowed to pick up a back pass. Ajax was known to press high and that tactics resulted in a high number of goal keeper kicking errors, which Ajax could use to turn around possession. But that benefit has long dissipated into thin air.
The first coaching course, with Rijsbergen, Stafleu and Willem van Hanegem
Van Gaal was the last Dutch coach to be in a Champions League final, and to win a foreign title with Bayern. After Mark van Bommel and Ronald Koeman’s sacking, Peter Bosz is the only Dutch coach abroad, in a major competition.
Today’s Dutch School flag bearers are non Dutch. Like Pep Guardiola. Where his Dutch colleagues were short-tracked, Pep took the long way. He went to play in Mexico, to get a chance to work with Juanma Lillo, a Spanish coach with particular views on football. He also visiting football professor Bielsa in Argentina, to take his lessons. Bielsa was so obsessed with Van Gaal’s Ajax, that he would watch the games and he would stop the match when Van Gaal would make changes. And he would then try to second guess what the Ajax coach would do, assisted by his wife.
According to the Dutch coaching candidates, we have four issues with our coaching program. Firstly, the cost. A Dutch diploma costs twice as much as the equivalent in other European countries. These high rates are a stumbling block for many ex players to have a go. Secondly, the contents of the course is outdated. It’s talk, show, do. The coaching objective must be articulated in 5 Ws: What do we want? Where on the pitch? Who are the key players? When do we execute? What is the role of the opponent? Situational coaching, it is called. The Dutch coaches first explain the situation, then show it and then go and practice it, with the Dutch coach constantly stopping the play to go through the solution and practice that, almost in slow motion.
Rijkaard, Neeskens, Hiddink (NT coach in 1998), Gullit and Koeman (who received their diplomas)
This method doesn’t work in combination with the current standard of international football. Dutch coaches stop the play when a ball is turned over. Those are the moments to get the players attention in order to work on the situation. But subconsciously, that “stopping” at turn overs becomes part of the players’ behaviour!
Thirdly, the teachers at the coaching course. There has not been any new fresh blood. The coaches are theoretically strong but lack any real world consciousness around coaching and managing. The fourth issues, is that every student will graduate. You cannot fail. You pay, you get the diploma.
Marcel Lucassen is the new director football development at the KNVB and he will take his experience with the German DFB, Al-Nasr and Arsenal and inject his ideas into our coaching curriculum.
With the successful exploits of young coaches like Arne Slot, Danny Buijs (Groningen), Sjors Ultee, Kees van Wonderen (Go Ahead), Rogier Meijer (NEC), Johnny Jansen (Heerenveen), Pascal Jansen (AZ), Erik ten Hag, Wim Jonk (Volendam), Reinier Robbemond (De Graafschap), Ruud van Nistelrooy (Young PSV), John Heitinga (Young Ajax), we might see a new generation of “top coaches” emerge.
Success coach Sjors Ultee would not have been admitted in the old regime
Great, great article Jan. I read and re-read and was completely blown out of water. Comprehensive and loaded with facts and scenarios that might have made a successful attempt in explaining the Dutch coaches’ dilemma.
This piece highlights or underlines what I have always believed: the woes of Dutch football have always been boardroom-related. Individuals you so aptly labelled as “kartel”. It feels like at every level of Dutch administration there is this single-minded group of people(with unchecked power) bent on running things the way they see fit and totally incapable of pivoting or self reflection even when things are clearly awry.
The Frank Rijkaard appointment was a successful one though overshadowed with misfortune(never felt football pain like that Euro 2000 loss to Italy). In that regard, the Van Basten appointment was somehow justified in continuation of a young, great unproven ex-player.
But given everything we know now, 12 years later, it beggars belief how we ended up with FDB. I don’t care what the rule book says and how only great ex-players should be worthy of certain opportunities. COMMON SENSE should always(ALWAYS) trump what your imagination in the boardroom think is going to translate to reality. Appointing someone who has been fired 3 times in a row(even for morale reasons, forget capability) is a no-no. Every lay football person knows that. It’s common sense. No amount of your behind the scenes other-worldly knowledge and Zen machinations is going to change that fact.
Putting Blind over a proven, experienced coach rearing to go because you have to follow a blueprint is also foolhardy and highlights one of the great big Achilles of Dutch football; trying to maintain tradition and status quo at all cost. The great ex-player coaching thing has to work at all cost. Forget the inexperience, forget the lack of personality and charisma, tradition has to be followed(even a newly found one)
And this attitude unfortunately but predictably spills over the field of play. We don’t need a left-footed right winger for our system to work. Just choose the best player at the moment and not settle for mediocrity because you have to satisfy a criteria. Such sense of unnecessary rigidity. Why would any organization shut the door in the faces of potential Mourinhos because they were not Cruyff? The red-taping and affinity for excuses for the people in control is a real bummer.
well said.
Carlo Ancelotti was sacked 3 times in a row.
this is the problem with you guys. you dont want to look at true picture.
Yep. Interestingly enough, I think it was JC who was behind this (unbeknownst to him of course). He made a strong plea for ex top players to get a shorter course. He himself was capable of coaching “lesser mortals” but most top players (Van Basten, Maradona, Zico) are not ideal aa coach.
Breaking: Danjuma gets injured. Only after 12 minutes. Hope its mot serious.
Danjuma’s injury not as serious. Expected to report for Oranje duty.
@Derek
Re: Carlo Ancelotti was sacked 3 times in a row
Although both are in a state of comatose, there is a difference between sleep and death. Same applies to the coaching and firing history of Ancelloti and FDB.
A champion’s league winner who was once fired for placing second in perhaps the toughest league in the world CANNOT be compared to another whose team went nine games without scoring a goal in this same environment.
You not knowing that or even worse, feigning ignorance(so as to “win” a point) does all kind of damage to your credibility as a contributor.
Firstly, being in a coma does not mean you’re dead, medically that’s true. I think that in itself shows your cynicism.
Secondly, if you’re going to say absolutes like “hiring a coach who has been fired 3 times in a row is a no-no”, then 100% I’m going to give you example of plenty of good coaches that have been fired 3 times in a row. Ancelotti, Mourinho, Ranieri, many of them.
I’m not saying FDB is a good coach, but Roma just hired Mourinho after he had been sacked 3 times in a row, so I’m sure it’s not a no-no.
you again want to see things with one eye closed. just on Mourinho, even though he was consecutively sacked three times, he did win trophies with the clubs except at Spurs where he was sacked just before the Carabao cup final.
Porto
Primeira Liga: 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal: 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
UEFA Champions League: 2003–04
UEFA Cup: 2002–03
Chelsea
Premier League: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2014–15
FA Cup: 2006–07[292]
Football League Cup: 2004–05, 2006–07,[292] 2014–15
FA Community Shield: 2005[292]
Inter Milan
Serie A: 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia: 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana: 2008
UEFA Champions League: 2009–10
Real Madrid
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2012
Manchester United
EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17
his record speaks for itself and not whether he gets sacked or hired again.
So then we agree that getting sacked three times in a row does not necessarily make someone a bad coach. That’s all I was saying.
@Derek… Shame on you to drag on your point, findnng holes to justification of statement… Sacking is common in Real shitrid, Farca,, chelski and some.. They spent millions and they need immediately the results.. FDB su₹%&#&ed with playing style, he was not going to get result as well.. Comparing sacking of assembler mourinho and anceloti with FDB.. Ha ha that itself is joke..
You are just biting around the bush my friend, it all depends on your calibre as a coach.whats being dicussed is his step up to being appointed as a NT coach even after failing miserably at club level and how he got the green light.
FDB was just a hype after winning 4 conservative eredivisie titles and his failure elsewhere is no doubt a reality of it. It was at a time when the league itself was slowly depeleting with players moving abroad while Ajax were in a good position benefiting from its production of young talents through its youth system which kept backing up and reinforcing the main team. If you go back, with the 4 titles they won, they were medicore in the CL. If I recall correctly they only beat Brace once which was their second string team.
Like I alway say the red carpet is always out if associated with Ajax. That 4 titles got him the top job.
We all agree that getting sacked 3 times in a row does not make someone a bad coach. And we all agree that FDB is a bad coach and the decision to appoint him as NT manger is lunatic. All is good. I am glad we all come to the same conclusion.
This is relevant when winning trophies is all you care about. But both Madrid and Man U fans will tell you they would have expected (much) more from the coach.
The thing that gets me with Mourinho, is the mess he leaves behind. He’s a narcissist (like Louis) and when things do go as planned he becomes vile and self destructive. His antics with the female doctor at Chelsea, him pricking a finger into a Barca coach’ eyes, that sortathing. He always brings that petty energy with him and they were happy to see him go at Madrid, Spurs. Man U and last time around Chelsea.
” beating”
FDB signed van der hoorn and ignored Virgil van dijk….thta was classic at Ajax..
Stop beating this dead animal. Virgil himself said that he completely understands why Ajax ignored him. He simple wasn’t then who he is now. Hindsight is a luxury.
So Timber is injured and Van Gaal doesn’t call Karsdorp as a replacement who’s a starter at his club but he calls Rench who doesn’t play ? What is the logic behind that!!
its not van gaal, its danny Blind
somebody needs to put word in his ear about karsdorp. looks like he just going with the list given to him.
age old problem
Bullshit. Do you think Danny Blind is more dominant than Van Gaal? Wow, you don’t know Van Gaal clearly.
well somebody is not doing their job because its obvious Van Gaal wont be scouting each and every players out there . its the people around him that should be bloody advising him what’s going around in terms players performances. have they forgotten about Serie A or what.
you tell me whats the logic behind Karsdorp’s omission to a bench player. pliz dont tell me again he is already kownn in Zeist crap.
I’m sure how it works is van Gaal has scouts make a shortlist of 200 or w.e he said and then van Gaal chooses from that list.
If Karsdrop was anywhere close to the team, van Gaal will have seen him play.
First thing first, have you been following karsdorp?
It was under Danny Blind that karsdorp made his debut and was capped three times. You just cannot dispute he not known to the team or management.
Even back then Danny played the hard ball calling him up and having him warm the bench even though he was regular RB at Feyenoord and Veltman had just shifted from CB to RB. It was not until the he was left with no choice following Veltman’s injury that Karsdorp made his debut vs Belarus if Im correct.
Wilson you are an idiot. It’s sad that you post so much and clog up this board with complete nonsense.
Jan has the patience of an angel. If I were him I would have banned you years ago. A true toll and moron.
Yes, Danny Blind tells LVG what to do because you saw it in a dream while you were on mushrooms.
Stop posting.
the only thing I can say to you is go and find that press conference vid where he said from his mouth that he works on what is given to him.
even in the case of VDBeek’s ommission, in his press conference , van gaal told he had spoken to him on the phone and advised he needs to start playing.
I wonder if he has spoken to karsdorp or no. its very cryptic. how on earth have they not noticed karsdorp at Roma under Mourinho and who is starting every single game. its aint to mystery
Biggest joke is Rensch is a substitute player in Ajax. So what on earth is the reason for karsdorp omission. May be even Bangaal doesn’t know.
While I think karsdorp is overdue for a call up, Van Gaal knows what he’s doing. You really want to experiment in the last 2 games with a guy who hasn’t played in the national team in what, 3-4 years? He will get called up when the time is right. Be patient, it’ll happen. You heard it here first…;)
Do you have any idea how many Dutch talents are out there that can be called up for experiment.
This is important qualifiers and given Timber was intially Dumfries back from previous qualifers and even in this selection as well goes to show where their perference lies.
Off course he will be called when there will no options incase of injries but thats like spitting on somebody and licking it again.
Its just pathetic and this is what they did with Buttner and van Dijk in 2014. They just write then off. Its like they are god and know he is not good enough. Timber doesnt play at RB gets the nod, then a bench players get called up.
This is the exact reason why I hate these too morons and the reason why NT will continue to stumble.
His press conference remarks were that he didn’t want to bring in a “stranger” (I read this off the VI translated page. I don’t know the Dutch word that he used, or how accurate the translation is.) I take that to mean that he didn’t want to bring a player in for the last two games who had not yet been with the group.
He said that he had to do things differently because Drommel was ill, meaning that is why he called up Cillesen, even though he wasn’t previously in the group.
Putting this together, I take this to mean that he has a player that he thinks is suitable as a back up for Dumfries who had been in the group (Rensch).
He said that Karsdorp (and Veltman) are not options “at the moment.” Which sounds like he is leaving the door open for them as he builds the team for the WC after qualifications. (He also commented—not for the first time—that he will have a year to build the team after qualifications which would allow him to put his stamp on it.)
@Wilson
And what bothers me is that you have people consistently trying to justify slush like this. Football Knowledge of 50 Van Gaals(put together) does not trump COMMON SENSE. And any coach in a just state of mind, whose actions are not dictated by ego and spite, would have picked Karsdop.
They however, CONSISTENTLY, put on a facade of superiority, mixed with eccentricity and laced with an air of esoteric inclination. As bare as the trophy cabinet is. Win something with Oranje Louis. We will crown you emperor, dress you in the finest silk and save your adoring subjects from swooning at your bare extremities.
https://m.fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieuws/393060/oproep-rensch-lachwekkend-het-is-interessantdoenerij/
@ andrew
As much as you have said you translated the text but the way you have interpreted it, again is a shame my friend.straight forward
Danjuma and Lang were both strangers to team, werent they and were also not part of the group before.What was the outcome?
Where have you seen this? if you not part of the group you cannot be called up. This is utter bullshit and only happens in Dutch football. Its a Fcuken disagrace. What happened to performance merit. All of a sudden now twist and turns.
Again on you statement on “leaving the door open for later”
What is this gonna yield and why waste time on a bench and make shift player who is not playing there to one of best fullbacks in serie A. Its absurd
You see this where you have to understand what they are trying to do here. They are trying their best to present Timber and Rensch as big talents for being called up. Which they both are not. Upcoming yes. This is exactly what they did with Daley Blind in 2014 and kept putting buttner on the side. Only a dump ass coach will overlook at one of the best fullbacks in serie A. There is no doubt what so ever that karsdorp with his current status will easily brush both aside and even put a good fight for starting spot with Dumfries. I mean you dont have to be coach to see this but the two old pircks cant see this.
@Wilson, my friend, I don’t think I interpreted it wrongly, so we’ll just have to disagree. Nothing new there, right? 😉
Van Gaal said he didn’t want strangers “now”…”now” is going into the final make or break games, and “now” is playing at Montenegro (not easy to beat at home) and the final decider against Norway. Both of those games more difficult than Latvia and Gibraltar—the matches Lang made his debut in, and Danjuma returned to the team after a long absence. Good management, I think, blending them into the team. Does it mean they needed to be eased in? Not necessarily, but it sure doesn’t hurt for them to have gotten their legs under them, and played with the regulars in those games.
I’m not going to go into the Daly Blind thing with you. We’ve gone round and round about this before. I understand your belief, but I just see it differently than you do.
With regard to Karsdorp, I’ve said it before, I would like him in the team. I don’t know when the door is going to yield, as you put it. I hope he gets his chance. That said, I believe it is more likely that Van Gaal selected Rensch because—having worked with him, having seen him in camp, having seen him on the field against Turkey—he thinks he is the best option for these games, rather than for some reason that has nothing to do with what Rensch can bring to the team.
For Wilson (and others who struggle with the realities of being a coach).
LvG held a long presser and explained his thinking.
Cillesen
With Cillesen fit and back playing, he is considered again. He will not automatically be the #1 goalie (he will start as #3) but LvG said that this could change. There is not yet a #1 goalie, in other words. For now it’s Bijlow, but if he fails, Cillesen (or Flekken) will be available.
Krul
Krul wasn’t dropped by LvG. Krul called Van Gaal to tell him he wanted some time at the club, as their coach was just sacked (Farke) and they were in dire straits. LvG even said he will most certainly consider Krul for the World Cup, as “we will need a penalty killer”.
Rensch
Van Gaal sees Rensch as a top talent. He considers him because he was part of the Oranje squad at the Euros and is part of Van de Looi’s Jong Oranje as well. He might not play for Ajax 1, but he does play for Young Ajax, so based on the fact that he was part of the squad in the past year gives him preference over Karsdorp or Veltman.
LvG: “I didn’t want to introduce new players into the mix who haven’t been part of the squad (he calls them strangers), I prefer to use players who know the drill”
I believe Karsdorp will have a chance to make it in the WC squad provided he plays well and Rensch/Dumfries/Veltman are not flying high.
Berghuis
LvG has good hopes that Steven Berghuis could well be fit for the Norway game. Should he be fit, LvG will include him into the match.
The Wilson question “And what about Danjuma and Lang?”. We needed wingers. We don’t need more right backs (is Louis’ thinking). According to Louis, he is happy with Dumfries and Rensch. He wasn’t happy with Bergwijn and the injured Gakpo (because he was injured) and had to bring in new blood. As you will remember Wilson, Danjuma was brought in AFTER Gakpo ended up injured. Lang was part of Young Oranje btw and if you know your Dutch football you should know that Van Gaal will always look over Van de Looi’s shoulder and will consider YOung Oranje his pool to pick players from.
More questions, Wilson? We are happy to explain more.
PS the fact that Blind “manages” the players list doesn’t mean he tells Van Gaal what to do! Geez Louise…..
Btw, I am also of the position that Karsdorp deserved the call up. I am merely explaining how Louis thinks. I am not making it up, this all the result of a presser by the Crooked Nose One himself.
So apparently there is a new merit now in Dutch football for selection of players. If you know happen to know the training drills,you are in regardless of form.
Like I said this is just twist and turns just to accomdate Rensch whom they want to give the preference based on what? only they know and see.
“They needed wingers and not Right Backs”
But this doesnt change the fact that danjuma and lang came into the team not familiar with any drills or known to the team either. The main argument point here is if they can come in and live up to expectation just in few days then karsdorp should be an exception as well given his current form. You see this can not be denied. eventually this is what will happen if there is injuries. They will have to rely on capability and form of players and not whether they know the bloodly drills or no. Again danjuma and lang
To say that they dont need a RB is foolishness at tops and again just arrogance talking.We all saw what happened to Timber vs Norway and Van gaal face in that game and then Rensch vs Turkey.
The bottom line here for any coach should be to assemble the best team possible out there and not I can do it with this player or somebody who happens to know the training drill.
“I believe Karsdorp will have a chance to make it in the WC squad provided he plays well and Rensch/Dumfries/Veltman are not flying high”
Im reading this statement and wondering what is the logic here. One of the best RBs in Serie A has to wait for callup unless there is a dip in form of others whom 1 is a bench player and who doesnt play and another who is a makeshift and also doesnt play there. This is beyond laughable and sorry to say worth farting on.
Well atleast there is no denial it has been a laughing matter in Nertherlands and what they think about it as well.
You constantly take words and then put them through the Wilsonator of big hyperbole. No one said it’s about the training drills. No one said Rensch is out of form (you probably think this).
Van Gaal will have his reasons. Do we need to trust that? Eh… yes we do.
As for the comparison of Danjuma’s situation vs Karsdorp.
I will try to refrain from using caps. THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE FOR DANJUMA. BUT THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES FOR KARSDORP!
Oops sorry I failed.
Rensch can play on three positions (Ricky only on one). Rensch was part of the Euros squad and Young Oranje. Karsdorp not.
You compare apples v pears when it suits your argument.
“Choose the best player for every position, and you’ll end up not with a strong XI, but with 11 strong 1’s.” – Johan Cruyff
It’s such a basic idea. Obviously there are overall team factors (not just factors relating to individual players) involved in the selection of… a team. But instead of just getting that, you guys come up with convoluted theories (with no evidence, of course) that there’s a “they” in Amsterdam who are intentionally trying to exclude the very best available players from the national team roster (for some reason). What is even more bizarre/comical is that you don’t change this line of thinking even when one of the ‘secretly blackballed’ players makes it into the team and onto the pitch (Danjuma, Lang), but instead you look for another player being intentionally screwed over by this cabal of nepotistic bad actors.
Despite the fact that I’ve always really liked how Karsdorp plays and prefer him to most of the options at right back (especially Dumfries with his annoyingly heavy touch), there could be any number of reasons that Karsdorp is not included at this point. Maybe the others in this role, who have played more recently, have not performed badly enough to merit being pulled from the selection. Maybe there were ‘locker room’ issues when he was previously in the squad. Maybe one of those tattoos says “F LvG” or something. Don’t know. But there’s no doubt that he’s being watched as he progresses in Rome after a long, long lost period due to injury. Unless he really is toxic in some way, I think he’ll likely get a chance if he stays healthy and in-form. And then you can find another player that is inexplicably ignored by the KNVB and professional scouts alike to rant and complain on behalf of.
Or maybe our boy Rick can be adopted into one of the Royal Families of Dutch Football and get a free pass that way…. The nepotism angle never fails, no matter how poor you actually are (let’s not tell Justin Kluivert about this for a few more years though)
@aanvullah
Re: “Choose the best player for every position, and you’ll end up not with a strong XI, but with 11 strong 1’s.” – Johan Cruyff
My guy, you chose that statement and ran ALL THE WAY with it. A statement like that CANNOT be a blanket cover for the woeful dysfunction that has been the KNVB management down to the coaches.
I’ll bet you that at ALL times 1+1=2. Don’t let Einstein tell you that it’s somehow 2-3/4 because you know him to be Einstein. You were blessed with intuition, common sense and surely experience from all your years and interest in football. Why do you choose to twist yourself in a pretzel for a call as foolish as this by LVG? Why do you choose to gaslight the people who are rightfully making this glaring, elementary observation?
We’ve all seen the bias, pettiness and vindictiveness that has characterized Oranje over the years. How do you fail to see and admit to this but instead accuse people of conspiracy theories? What is in it for fans like you?
Here we are explaining and excusing the mindset and absurd decisions of a 70-something year old with a World-acclaimed notoriously difficult personality. Does it takes from us to see the simple truth for just what it is?
These mad scientists, other-worldly antics introduced by Cruyff and now used as a weapon to justify more craziness by LVG is why we continue to be in the throes of greatness and the dumpster heap. No in-between. Just good ole absurdity and mediocrity interjected by sprinkles of glitter. Btw 1+1 is still 2 my guy.
Damn. I got caught ‘gaslighting’
My only hope now is that Jan doesn’t reveal that I’m secretly… DANNY BLIND! I’m only here to push the perspective of the entrenched elites and our goals of ensuring mediocrity.
Good post too actually. I think I get what Orang is trying to say.
I would suggest you let JC rest in peace in his graven and not awaken him because that has always being the case for NT. 11 strong 1s and they have always fallen short or if not not qualified.
I will say though 98 had the best players in every position, reserves as well and if they would gone to the final they would have won.
80s, 70s I have no clue.
So thats for your intro. Now for rest of your comments.
Either you are not tracking or have forgotten changes including injuries has been a blessing for NT as thats where things have changed for good and reinforced the team better. Again Danjuma and Lang. In any position if there is a room for improvement, it will always be in the best intrest of the team. you can even look at De Vrij and De ligt competition/ scenario.
The bottom line here is performamce should speak its volume. If You consider that RB position, nobody including Dumfries are fully compentent . They have certain short falls and its only vs big guns you will see them cracking up.so why no change or room for improvement. At the same time how many games has Rensch and Timner played for NT that they are untouchable.
The others thing that you mentioned like tattoos, toxicity shit and locker room issues is all crap. Havent you seem Tattoos in memphis body.
Holland did not have the best squad player vs player in 98. Those guys were my heroes but I would’ve taken Ronaldo over Kluivert or Zidane or Bergkamp.
Also, with you, the only reason you’re upset is because an Ajax player was called up. You’ve made it abundantly clear you’re very anti-Ajax. If Louis van Gaal had called up some no name RB playing in China’s 5th division who had played 1 good game once in his life, enough to make a YouTube video out of, you’d be over the moon.
@ Derekvdberg91
I have said this before and im saying this again. I always look at the individial capabiliity of the players regardless of where they play.
On the same note performance should speaks its volume. On being anti Ajax, yes I have a problem when they are given the benefit of doubt over other players who can be called up and atleast compete for spot to make it legit, fair and square
It will go down in the history books that reserve player was called up to NT because the so called jury found it legit, him playing for Jong Orange and in second division for a B team while a top serie A fullback its not an option even though he he is in top form.
You see its not about me crying here or trying to make my grievance heard. It was concrete evident Karsdorp was due call up from the very first selection by Van Gaal. Roma had a good preseaon and also went through the EL qualifers where karsdorp featured in almost all games and delivering back to back good performances.The red flag was already up for Resnch from the very first selection . I can still recall the justification that popped up back then was because of his outings from the previous season when Mazzouri was injured. They looked back at that to justify his selection even though Mazzouri return saw him drop to the bench for months.
Also the claim that karsdorp is being watched and if remains in form will be called up provided others are not in form is just too vague. I cant see any logic in this. It shouldnt be the case where he gets called up 1-2 times and then later is dropped because its not deemed enough to make the cut (NL/ WC) or is overshadowed by those fringe players who are being called up to the current squad now like Timber prefered as make shift RB as well.
Without a doubt karsdorp can compete with Dumfries for the starting spot and for this he needs to start playing and as much as possible so to later on there is no side excuses he hasnt played much at NT level.
The bottom line is let competition settle the dust once and for all. Once again look at De Vrij and De ligt situation.
“I have said this before and im saying this again. I always look at the individial capabiliity of the players regardless of where they play.”
These type of statements don’t work if you don’t have any authority, hahaha. This is something a Van Gaal would say. And people would listen up. This sentence tells us all how you regard yourself :-).
The problem is, that you think and talk like a fan. Not as a coach. Coaches don’t look at individual capacility. Ever heard of John de Bever? Or Touzani? Individual greats. Could do everything with a ball. But terrible team players.
Coaches need to prep the best TEAM! Ask all the big players from the past what their opinion is of Neeskens, Van Bommel, Nigel de Jong, Winston Bogarde, Dirk Kuyt, Marten de Roon…. No one will tell you anything negative about their football contribution.
danjuma and Lang. modern day football.
“Coaches don’t look at individual capability”.
well thats whats happening in all other big teams. individually qualities – club level, get scouted and transition into National team.
only in NT its complicated.
God in Heaven!! The tattoo comment was clearly a joke Wilson!! Do you really believe Rick has Fukc LvG on his thigh??
Locker room issues is not crap. Forgotten about the past? Davids in 1996? Bommel and Nistelrooy in 2006? John de Wolf playing poker with Ajax players and cheating them out of 1000s of guilders??
davids yes, not karsdorp. why bring that past to present.
Brilliant comments Aanvalluh! Exactly my point!!
I am happy for Berjwin back to team…He can deliver in big games with work rate speed and skill..he can be menace and team player..i would start with Berjwin at right and later sub him with Danjuma at left….
Jurien timber is a monster.Multipurpose players who is mandatory to win a trophy..plays in champions legaue,he plays in top form..amazing player can play at RB and RCB and even LCB…i appriciate LVG for that…
Rensch is dextrous footed player who has more authority on ball than karsdorp and Dumfries,so its no brainer…Rensch is not a headless chicken….
our backs should be
Malacia,Virgil,De vrij,karsdorp,Rensch,De ligt,Ake,Timber,Blind…..
stand bye
botman
Shuurs
dumfries
geetruida
I’m going to be honest I’ve only seen a few Roma games, but from the games I watched Karsdrop always plays wingback and not fullback. Holland doesn’t play with wingbacks, and the two roles are very different. It’s like Marcos Alonso, he was absolutely useless in a back 4 because he couldn’t defend, but in a back 5 he looks world class, because he’s always got 3 guys behind him.
I don’t know, just speculating.
@Derekvdberg91, yes, I was wondering that myself. I did a quick look—and if the posted lineups and formations in the game summaries are accurate, it looks like of the last 6 games, he played right back in a 4 man back line 5 times, and wingback once. But not having seen the games, I can’t say how he might actually have been deployed, nor do I kniw whether that has been consistent throughout the year. And not sure about last year. Wilson will likely know.
Mourinho is all about 4-2-3-1. he did change to 3-4-3 in last game before the break vs Venezia due injuries.
Good point mate.
It is ludicrous to think a coach will simply look at what footballers do on the field. Look at Benzema, shunned by the team for years. Ibrahimovic has been one of the best strikers in the world for years. Eric Cantona in the mid 90s, Leroy Sane at the last world cup, Laporte at that world cup. Mauro icardi.
Le Tissier was one of the best footballers in England before the 98 world cup and got ignored for a call up. The list goes on.
Whats your point year here. Benzema ( sex tape scandal) and Icardi had off the field issues. Icardi is seen as a traitor in Argentina for stealing others wife. They also have other better strikers than him
Ibrahimvoic has been called up for the sweden in this qualifiers.
I remember Le tisser at Southampton . He was a very technical striker but had to compete with some of the very best strikers in england that time. Shearer, Ferdinand, Cole, fowler, sheringham, anderton etc.he did get called up few times.
Laporte did not want to be a bench warmer as Varane and Kimpembe was ahead of him. He had a spanish passport and switched allegiances.he would have had to compete with Upamecano amd Kounde as well.umtiti as well was in there some where.
Leroy sane omissions was attributed to his big time attitude being a city player which was seen as distractions for other players. They had Reus and Brandt who were equally good wingers.
@Jan
Re: Van Gaal will have his reasons. Do we need to trust that? Eh… yes we do.
The greatest trick the KNVB kartel pulled over its Dutch audience is to convince them that they(KNVB) are dang near infallible and that there is always a deeper, more serious motive to their predictable absurdities. That’s the only thing that would facilitate a statement as above.
Van Gaal is good at what he does. Fact. But also like Johan Cruyff, he is a flaming narcissist whose decision-making can be plucky and wilfully eccentric so as to assert his superior thinking and unassailable image. His impenetrable omnipotence. And with that being known, we as fans have a responsibility to do the thing he hates the most: question him. Not condone a decision that’s clearly borne out of stirring attention and debate and forever second guessing his depth.
But it does not start nor end with Van Gaal. It is a culture within Dutch football. The eccentricity. The weird, head-scratching coaching appointments. The sorority-kind unanimity in blackballing decisions against certain players.
Oranje gave the world the beautiful concept of total football which have now been refined and polished by grateful students to great effect and tremendous benefit. Trophies and success. What the master is left with now is an act(the naked emperor comes to mind everytime lol). The one time genius has now been replaced by suggestive bluster wrapped up in somewhat reluctant mystique(absurdities if you will) and even more abnormalities. Hope the new generation would get past this.
I am really starting to warm up to your writing style hahaha….
THE REAL ISSUE OR THE TERROR FACTOR IS THAT..
IF RENSCH STARTS the game ,he will shut up criticasters…I AM WAINTING FOR THAT..I HOPE lvg STARTS HIM..
Sorry bro I don’t think people criticise Rensch. They criticise the coach for not selecting Karsdorp. Rensch is a super talent. No doubt.