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I will show my age with these words… But one of the most underrated players from the legendary WC1974 team was Wim Jansen. Defensive midfielder of Feyenoord. Robin to Van Hanegem’s Batman. And the glue that kept the Oranje 1974 team together. We had marauding Neeskens in midfield, conniving playmaker Van Hanegem and shining star JC up front. Wim Jansen kept the balance. For the young ones amongst us: see JC as Messi, Van Hanegem as Iniesta and Wim Jansen as Busquets. Very important for the team. Always diligent. Always aware. And always timing his challenges and positioning to perfection.

Another way for Wim to stand out was for being in the background and avoiding the spotlights. JC was the messiah, John Rep the face, Neeskens the gladiator and Van Hanegem the rock star. Wim Jansen was the quiet one.

wim oranje

After his long standing career at Feyenoord, Jansen played in the US (like Cruyff and Van Hanegem) and returned to Holland, to be lured to a very young and talented Ajax by Cruyff, to guide talents like Rijkaard. He was one of the first to don both jerseys and when Mr Feyenoord returned to De Kuip for an away game with Ajax, a so-called “supporter” threw an ice ball (it was winter time) on his face, damaging his eye. Jansen didn’t play that day.

He coached his beloved Feyenoord, set up the youth academy, coached Celtic with success and kept on working with youth all his life.

It’s common knowledge that Cruyff and Van Hanegem had a tremendous relationship on the pitch and deep respect for one another, but personality-wise, they were too different. Van Hanegem would call Cruyff on his BS and Cruyff felt Van Hanegem was a loose cannon. They didn’t spend much social time together. De Kromme: “Cruyff was the best ever, but I wouldn’t go to his birthday party. I wish him well but I’m not part of his coterie.”

Cruyff: “People say I was the best player, but if I played bad, I was useless for the team. Willem however, would hussle and battle and tackle if he didn’t play too well.”

Jansen and Van Hanegem were good friends. Lived in the same street in HI Ambacht (my home town, one block away from me) and shared duties at amateur club ASWH and played tennis locally. They were a tremendous team on the pitch.

willem jansen happel

The terminally ill success coach Ernst Happel, De Kromme and Wim Jansen

However, Jansen and Cruyff were best buddies. They had an understanding beyond words (on the pitch and off) and developed their football vision in conjunction. Cruyff with a focus on top level football (Ajax, Barcelona and indirectly AC Milan, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man
United) while Jansen focused on youth development.

If there is one guru in youth football today in Holland, it’s him. And if there is one guy the Dutch federation should have asked for advice to help patch up our football identity, it was him. But instead, the KNVB appointed former goalie Hans van Breukelen (who never coached in his life), who in turn went on to give out job offers to former waterpolo, volleyball and ice-skating coaches… Luckily, all of them turned the job down, under pressure from the many football pundits in Holland.

Some background on that KNVB strategy: when it was clear we were heading towards a quality gap in the post Van Marwijk days (post Van Persie/Vaart/Sneijder/Robben/Van Bommel/Van Bronckhorst) and we missed the Euro 2016 tournament, the federation decided to make plans.

breuk knvb

They decided to appoint a Technical Director (up until then, former burocrat Bert van Oostveen made the strategic technical decisions!!) and kick start a think tank of people to come up with a strategy going forward.

That, in itself, was a good idea. But the execution wasn’t that wonderful. They picked Hans van Breukelen (over people like Henk ten Cate, Rene Meulensteen, Wim Jansen, Marcel Brands, Martin van Geel, Co Adriaanse) and created think tank with 20+ people. This obviously resulted in a committee report full of cliches, but without cojones. Design by committee.

With the key objective: “Oranje to be back at the world top in 2026!”. WTF!!!

Finally, Wim Jansen – who declined to be part of that Think Tank for obvious reasons – has agreed to an interview to give us his views. It makes for compelling reading and I invite you to share your thoughts…. From the daily newspaper De Telegraaf:

“Dutch football wants to go back to the top, but the KNVB appears to have taken the wrong exit, according to Wim Jansen. He played two World Cup finals for Holland, co-developed Dutch world domination with Feyenoord and Oranje and developed the top class youth academy at Feyenoord (and indirectly: Ajax). “I don’t do this interview for me, but for the top talents we do have and who deserve the best treatment.”

talent

He is not interested in reading the KNVB report “Winner of Tomorrow” anymore. He knows it by heart. And he doesn’t like it. The KNVB objective is to be world class again in 2026. “But you will need to act on it now, then. But the emphasis is on physical and mental development. Higher demands on our defenders. These ideas are far removed from what is needed to be the absolute top.”

“Our football culture and style have been copied for 50 years now, by other nations. They all came to Holland to see how we do things. And now, our Federation is telling us to abandon this vision. They want to change what we do without any guarantee this will work. This strategy is irresponsible.”

jansen now

Jansen Now

“Physical and mental development are not the foundation of football. They are merely in service of football. It can never be leading. If you can’t play, physical strength and mental strength will bring you nothing. Top football is done on the basis of ball skills, technique, tactics and team play. Those ingredients will make a team top. Look at Spain, Germany.. Two top nations. Are Iniesta, Xavi, Griezmann, Ozil, De Bruyne so strong physically and mentally? is that what you think of them when you think of them? Or see them play? It’s their ball control and vision.”

Wim Jansen is still honing his skills. He is never ready with learning. He is still in charge of Feyenoord’s youth academy and works with the nations top academics in the field of neuro-psychology (Professor Scherder) and mobility sciences (Professor Savelsbergh) and is working on talent development day and night.

And this is where his biggest beef sits. The KNVB does not want to make the distinction between top football and recreational football. He agrees with Johan Cruyff for years and has had hour long debates about the development of football in Holland. Years ago, both stated with conviction that clubs need to develop pro-football and the Federation should develop recreational football.

jansen jc

The KNB has changed the training foundation of youth teams by adopting the so-called Twin Games. Teams split and playing on smaller pitches or even quarter pitches. “Unacceptable,” Jansen says. “Our new plan at youth level is now playing on quarter pitches? Why? The current system (7 v 7 on half pitches, 9 v 9 from box to box or 11 v 11 on full pitches) is the best. This will give young players a sense of space. Football is a game of time and space. The smaller the space at youth level, the harder the step up. The KNVB says they make the pitch smaller to copy the old street football from way back. As if “size of the pitch” is key. Its not. Street football was all about being able to play whenever you wanted. You learn things in street football, like dealing with bad surfaces, or playing with obstacles, like sewer manholes or curbs. Or pebbles, or street cobbles being uneven. I played street football but my friends didn’t make me better. I started to become better when I played in the Feyenoord youth with bigger players on a full pitch. And playing real matches, against top teams. So you need to bring talent together as young as possible and make them train together and play against other top talents. Your individual skills can be improved on the street, like Brazilian players learn ball control on the beach and with bare feet. But the development of becoming a team player is on a real pitch, actual size. The biggest ball magicians will fail once they have to play on a real pitch, because space can be your friend or your enemy. Remember John de Bever and Arie Riedijk? They were the best futsol players in the world, at one stage. Incredible technique. But the failed to make the step up to real football.

jansen cruyff

Jansen vs Cruyff

Football on a big pitch changes the game, it’s another dimension and the big pitch is the real judge and jury for football talents. In practice, you can work on technique and handling speed, but top football is played on 7000 square meters. So take the shortest route to that. If you want to attack, the first thing a coach will say is to find the space. Make the pitch wide, so you can move into space. If you need to defend, you make the pitch smaller.”

Jansen shakes his head… “The KNVB says we need to learn to defend better… I think it’s the other way around. 80% of our attacks come to nothing. I think we need to improve there. And the sooner the better. And don’t forget: as long as you have the ball, they can’t score. And you don’t need to defend. Do you think Luis Enrique at Barca is figuring out ways to defend better?”

Wim Jansen thinks the emphasising on defensive qualities is misplaced. “Remember the last classic between Feyenoord and Ajax. Ajax is leading, 1-0. It’s only 5 minutes on the clock. The tallest defender of Ajax, Dijks, marks the Feyenoord forward on the wrong side. The result, he is half a yard late when the cross comes in. Kuyt is able to dive to the ball right across him and scores. A little mistake, with a big result. It had nothing to do with physical strength. But everything with positioning, reading the game, vision and feeling for space. At that point, the smaller Kuyt won against the big, strong Dijks.”

-kuyt

Jansen himself was 35 years old playing as sweeper of Ajax, next to Rijkaard. In the winter of his career, he wasn’t the tallest nor the quickest. But he was one of the smartest.

At Varkenoord, Feyenoord’s youth complex, he visits the clinics of the new talents. “These kids come play here for the first time. And what do they do? Dribble. And the first thing you notice is that their eyes are on the ball. So the first thing we teach them is to look over the ball. Trust your skills and keep your head up to see where the free man is, or where the space is, or what the opponent does. The next phase is, to let them make decisions. We give them free reign. He can pass, dribble or take on an opponent. We don’t tell them what to do. As long as they do. They need to decide themselves but they do need to learn to look for space.”

jansen rijkaard

Jansen mentoring Rijkaard

This is the exact opposite of the KNVB vision who want to see kids play on small pitches and force them to pass. “If you want to give them lots of ball touches, give them all a ball. That is what we do, partially. But the match is leading. Whether you’re 7 or 10. The match determines how good you really are and what you need to develop. And things you can’t do in a game, you start to work on in practice. It’s not like the training determines the match. It’s actually the other way around. The match determines what to train on. In reality, there’s 22 players and only one will have the ball. 21 players won’t have the ball. And they need to work on playing without the ball. Moving, finding space, positioning, this is so important.”

Every pro club in Dutch football needs to have a full youth academy. There are clubs now that don’t. Jansen: “What is our license committee doing? You shouldn’t be allowed to play pro football without a youth division. If you want to reach the top, you need to demand more from the clubs.”

marco patrick

“Why is Max Verstappen a world class F1 driver at 18 years old? Because he learned how to drive a cart and learned listen to the car from when he was 4 years old! Its not like he started driving an F1 car after getting his driving license. Max is competing in F1 now coz he started early. The ages between 6 and 18 are the years in which a talent develops into a real player. That is 12 years of development. Every day that he doesn’t learn something is a day lost. Being a pro player is a craft. A profession. And they need practice as much as possible. There is scientific proof that a kid learns best between 6 and 12 years old. You can teach players patterns very easily. And they do pick up the most from other players. I played with top players, like Cruyff, Van Hanegem, Israel, Kraay, Moulijn and boy did I learn.

People underestimate the profession of being a pro footballer. You need to have so many skills, it takes so many details. And you need to see and be able to execute it. Every time again. If it was easy, we had 1000s of Arjen Robbens, because everyone wants to be a world class player. But, we only have one. That tells you enough.

young arjen

“Today the youth teams of PSV, Feyenoord beat their opponents easily. But when they play international tournaments, they get often beaten. They learn more from their defeats than from winning. But we see less and less talents. Ajax and Feyenoord keep on winning youth academy awards but in the last two games I saw Ajax play (in the Eredivisie) I only saw four players that were developed in The Netherlands….”

Wim Jansen scores vs AC Milan, semi finals Europa Cup

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55 responses to “Wim Jansen: revolutionise Dutch football! -pt 1”

  1. wilson says:

    Im kind of blank here but that Luis Enrique part is so true. But I guess NT does need a versatile DM. Its jus like missing link to a puzzle.

  2. Jan says:

    Isn’t Strootman that player? I think we have a couple that can play there: Ramselaar, Strootman, Clasie, Bazoer?

    I saw Ajax play Panathinaikos with a couple of youngsters (and a good Tete) and there is a lot of greatness on the horizon!

    • wilson says:

      I wouldn’t go for the youngestets until they prove other wise (Clasie).Strootman for me is a lock at BTB.I think at Roma too he is used more often used infront of other Nainggolan or De Rossi.maybe its jus the injury,but he hasn’t been the same after the recovery, looks sluggish sometimes especially when depending.

      I reckon jerry st Juste,Nathan Ake,Jairo Riedewald

  3. Guillaume vB says:

    “The KNVB objective is to be world class again in 3026.” <= this made my day 😉

  4. wilson says:

    Sinkgraven- Huntelaar- zivkovic

    Van Ginkel- st Juste- Strootman

    Buttner- Van Dijk- De Vrij- Janmaat

    Zoet/ stekelenberg

    At least QF guaranteed.

  5. wilson says:

    I can’t get this.how can your development after playing 4 season of Champions league. Yes I’m talking about Van Rhijn. Its a pity he could not keep up with the pace but he is very sharp offensively.Wing back He will definitely be in my top 2.

    Maybe it’d because of the drop in the competition level because of top players departing every year. Last four seasons,the depature of most of the top players have left eredivisie barren in terms maintaining that competition level within.this could have been a factor.he didn’t move at the right time.

  6. wilson says:

    Man city join the suitors list for Van Dijk. O my,this guy is in demand.

    Leroy Fer with another two goals,but defensively his game is quiet average.

  7. Ruud says:

    This is very good article for Chong

    “For me, two things stand out [about Chong]: he scores really great goals from outside the box, and he quite easily adapts to a higher level.”

    http://mufclatest.com/otw-chong/?

    Hopefully our lads will be right way in England

    MU: Chong,Baars
    MC: Dilrosun, Kongolo
    Arsenal: Malen
    Chelsea: Castillo
    Liverpol: Bobby Adekanye

    • Sybe Pals says:

      ‘hopefully’ indeed!

      Can you think of many youngsters who seemed to benefit from leaving holland at such young ages?

      • Ruud says:

        @Sybe Pals, that’s why i am saying ‘Hopefully’, we cannot guarantee they will be reach top level, at this moment we just see their potential. Recently the world changed a lot & our Eredivisie league now cannot compare to others, so maybe this also adapt to the change, at least you can see something on Fosu, he left Netherland when he’s young & now at 18 year old, has been called up to Orange(Although didn’t play a minute due to injury) & the youngest player in the squad of MU. If our lads i listed above can be Fosu i think that’s their success on first step.

  8. Sybe Pals says:

    Thanks Jan – great piece and great message.
    Could not agree more with him.

    Also — had some heavy personal shit goin on so not able to post so much, but still following when I can..

    Lots of great stuff going on!

    Krul fit and playing again with Jong Ajax, I’m sure he’ll get chances soon.
    de Vrij almost back fit again (too bad Hoedt has not been able to stay in the starting lineups while SdV was out)
    van Dijk getting praise everywhere as he continues to improve his game.
    Ake with a couple pretty solid matches in CB with Bournemouth, including a decent set piece header GW goal even.
    Wijnaldum back in Klopps starting lineups challenging for the title.
    Sneijder with a freekick goal..
    Promes is back playing every minute for Spartak (top of their league), and creating most of their chances, and Robben is back playing again as well!
    Would love to see things begin to go Janssen’s way a little more, but nice to see Dost keeps scoring in Portugal – seems like the opposite of that happens when they are up with Oranje! Hah

    Also – wanted to mention, have seen Donny van de Beek in a couple recent matches – love this kid. I hope he gets lots of playing time and develops into the player he is showing! I love a CM who runs to the ball and wants it every time (Frenkie de Jong has this as well!), then makes 1-2s with wingers and makes things go forward.
    Cannot wait for these young mids to (hopefully) step up!

  9. Jan says:

    Agree Sybe! Ajax has some amazing talents. One guy to look out for is Mathijs De Ligt, 17 year old Beckenbauer / Hummels like CB. Fast, tall, great powerful pass/shot. Excellent player.

    Nouri, Van der Beek, De Jong, Tete, Riedewald, the list goes on. We should naturalise Dolberg… Dutch name right?

  10. wilson says:

    Apparently Hamburg have reinginted their interest in jerry st Juste. Don’t think the move will be in the best intrest for him as hamburg are currently sitting bottom of Bundasliga and given he is still young would be a waste of time if hamburg gets relegated.he really needs to move before door fully closes on him as for definitely with the new Ajax contingent on the horizon who as usually will a get the nod,he won’t get much oppounity to prove himself if he remains at Heerenveen.

  11. Lights says:

    It’s bad to see this tragedy happened…..

    Brazilian soccer team’s plane crashes in Colombia; 76 dead.

    A chartered plane with a Brazilian first division soccer team crashed near Medellin while on its way to the finals of a regional tournament, killing 76 people, Colombian officials said Tuesday. Five people survived.

    The British Aerospace 146 short-haul plane, operated by a charter airline named LaMia, declared an emergency at 10 p.m. Monday (0300 GMT) because of an electrical failure, aviation authorities said.

    The aircraft, which had departed from Santa Cruz, Bolivia, was transporting the Chapecoense soccer team to Medellin’s Jose Maria Cordova airport.

    The team, from southern Brazil and which had started its journey in Sao Paulo, was scheduled to play Wednesday in the first of a two-game Copa Sudamericana final against Atletico Nacional of Medellin.

    It wasn’t immediately clear if the team switched planes in Bolivia or just made a stopover with the same plane.

    “What was supposed to be a celebration has turned into a tragedy,” Medellin Mayor Federico Gutierrez said from the search and rescue command center.

    The club said in a brief statement on its Facebook page that “may God accompany our athletes, officials, journalists and other guests traveling with our delegation.”

    Brazil as well as South America’s soccer federation extended its condolences to the entire Chapecoense community and said its president, Luis Dominguez, was on his way to Medellin. All soccer activities were suspended until further notice, the organization said in a statement.

    Elkin Ospina, mayor of La Ceja, near where the crash took place, said rescuers working through the night had been heartened after pulling three passengers alive from the wreckage.

    Authorities and rescuers were immediately activated but an air force helicopter had to turn back because of low visibility. Heavy rainfall complicated the nighttime search, and authorities urged journalists to stay off the roads so ambulances and other rescuers could reach the site.

    Images broadcast on local television showed three male passengers arriving to a local hospital in ambulances on stretchers and covered in blankets connected to an IV. All were apparently alive and one of them was reportedly a Chapecoense defender named Alan Ruschel.

    The plane was carrying 72 passengers and nine crew members, aviation authorities said in a statement. Local radio said the same aircraft transported Argentina’s national squad for a match earlier this month in Brazil, and previously had transported Venezuela’s national team.

    British Aerospace, which is now known as BAE Systems, says that the first 146-model plane took off in 1981 and that just under 400 — including the successor Avro RJ — were built in total in the U.K. through 2003. It says around 220 of are still in service in a variety of roles, including aerial firefighting and overnight freight services.

    A video published on the team’s Facebook page showed the team readying for the flight earlier Monday in Sao Paulo’s Guarulhos international airport.

    The team, from the small city of Chapeco, was in the middle of a fairy tale season. It joined Brazil’s first division in 2014 for the first time since the 1970s and made it last week to the Copa Sudamericana finals — the equivalent of the UEFA Europa League tournament — after defeating two of Argentina’s fiercest squads, San Lorenzo and Independiente, as well as Colombia’s Junior.

    The team is so modest that its 22,000-seat arena was ruled by tournament organizers too small to host the final match, which was instead moved to a stadium 300 miles (480 kilometers) to the north in the city of Curitiba.

    “Chapecoense was the biggest source of happiness in the town,” the club’s vice-president, Ivan Tozzo, told Brazil’s SporTV. “Many in the town are crying.”

  12. Jan says:

    Tomorrow, hopefully part 2 and final part of Wim Jansen story.

    Interesting that Wilson and Tiju did not enter into the discussion here. This is what Dutch football debate should be about, instead of Memphis is slow and Diks should be in Oranje…..

    • TIJU1234 says:

      What Wim Janssen is telling absolutely true.I have no disagreement with that.so i had no point against Him.But i have problem with Blind selection of certain players..He must open eyes of his heart to see the quality of certain players over his flopped choosen players..
      Playing Sneijder as LW and false Lw was joke of the century.
      Playing Blind over kongolo,Mensah are joke too…
      Playing a NON hardworking,less speedy winger who is not even in playing squad in club was another joke..
      lesser talented klassen over Super Bazoer thats A SIN…
      i can not stand that,so waiting till these annoyingly selected players gets out of teh team

      • TIJU1234 says:

        i look forward to a REVELUTIONARY danny Blind who sees
        Raidwald as DM
        Bazoer in klassen spot.
        Sneijder and Roben only plays in certain matches..
        Daley Blind as DM
        Ricardo Van rhijn as RW
        Annholt as LW
        Nauri as LW
        De Roon as DM
        Ake as DM

  13. Jan says:

    Tiju, most of the names you mention will get their fair share of NT football but it really is too early for De Roon, Ake, Nouri… Come on! De Roon still makes junior mistakes, Nouri doesn’t play, Ake had only two starts. It simply doesn’t work like that and you should really get that in your head by now. Bazoer doesn’t play! Riedewald and Kongolo are out with injuries.

    Blind does not have time to gel a team together during qualifications. Again: get this for once please!

    Klaassen performs really well week in week out. You do want Sneijder in the team and he has done fairly well for Oranje on the left side.

    We have a bright future ahead of us but not when you start puppies.

    • Emmanual says:

      Noauri is not a puppy,he can contribute to team as a LW than Sneijder and Depay ..thats for sure,offcourse he cannot outclass Sneider as playmaker but as LW he can..Depay is just Depay just fashion loving guy nothing else.A proven failure in top teams..i have no hope left for this guy as he doesnt have pace or stamina like promes or kuyt has,neither he is a Roben..he is just an overrated guy who scored 2 fluke vs a small team or just Mitjland and brugge…
      If Danny wants to play a team dominating and compact team,then neither Depay or klassen,propper should not be there.

      • Emmanual says:

        Annholt is week in week out player,excellent at attack,amazing speed ,could beat Roben may be…Can out run any fast defenders in PL..That would give us edge in fianl third if he play as winger…i see real totalfootabll game based on wingers
        Karsdorp-RB—Kevindiks-RW
        Wilimas-LB—Annholt-LW
        So much interchanging in attack.

        • van den Berg says:

          As Churchill put it, a fanatic is someone who can’t change his mind, and won’t change the subject.

          Play kids who aren’t starting!
          Play backs as wingers!
          Deeply is only concerned with fashion!
          Kevin Dijks as right wing! no, Van Rijhn as right wing! No, Kevin Dijks as right wing!

          Thank God Danny Blind is in charge. 🙂

          • van den Berg says:

            *deeply – Depay

          • Emmanual says:

            what Churchill said is true…Neither our results are changing,that also stable too…i am pissed of by the inclusion of certain players and certain players are used in wrong spot were they could do little…this is not revolution thats a coward act by Blind..THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.

          • van den Berg says:

            It was a sarcastic response to your infantile opinions.

  14. wilson says:

    Jan for me I don’t think the dutch past can influence much in today’s era given the current situation of both eredivisie and the quality of players and neither I think we will get to see another bergkamp,van basten,Robben,Guilt or Rijkaard, so most of your posts on the legends of the past or of the golden age era is more a informative one for me as I’m blank on past.

    On the other you have to look at the real picture here,there is a lot of hype about Nouri,kuilvert,sierhuis etc but like them there are also other talents in another league who are developing better in more competitive leagues,so the gap will remain the same especially when they hit their peak.
    Klaassen,El Glazi,Bazoer,Depay all were seen from the same perpestive when they were coming up the ranks but the expectation hasn’t lived up to what was initially thought of them

    • Sybe Pals says:

      pretty sure there is nothing wrong with a little hype — if young players are playing well then its great! no?

      I noticed you are negative towards people giving young players praise (none of the players you mention are even 24 yet) yet you praise none – is it this way on purpose – if so, why?

      • Sybe Pals says:

        sorry I don’t mean *yet you praise none – iirc you actually praise those same players haha

        I actually meant:
        yet you do not give examples of these ‘other talents in more competitive leagues who are developing better’..
        (what ever “better” means to you, I guess)

        I’m curious about those, let’s hear about them!

    • Sybe Pals says:

      did you even read Jan’s posts?
      Wim Jansen IS talking about the current and future situation, not the past

      • wilson says:

        Pals, firstly im not being negative,thats how its unfolding.if you wanna count the chickens before they hatch,be my guest. My views is basically from looking at the trend of player development in eredivisie compared to that of after they move to competitive leagues.

        As for my list of talents developing bettet in other leagues,its quiet long but for the sake of argument, I will say this,the failure of NT (U21) to qualify for both the European championships and world cup jus shows that gap in quality and performance,especially when you have teams like Slovakia beating them convincingly at that level.

        If you are still not satisfied then google some of the U21 national teams and see it for youself.

      • wilson says:

        Yes I read the post. Thank you for sticking you tongue out,but I was more referring to all of Jan post where he documented the views and legacy of past players. JC velvet revulation etc.

        • Sybe Pals says:

          counting chickens? I don’t promise any players will become world class. What are you talking about?

          Sticking you toungue out?
          Huh?
          So you can tell Jan he does not see the real picture, but no one can ask you questions?
          I’m not trying to attack you, trying to understand what you are saying.

          Haha you only answer one of my simple questions, saying that you read Jans post – but It does not seem this way – Wim Jansens points are exactly about the developement of Dutch players NOW, esp players in the eredivisie!

          I didn’t ask for a list of players – you could have easily mentioned any of them yourself.
          I only ask if you meant to not list any (even one) of them on purpose – you have only mentioned players who (in your opinion) are either too hyped or don’t live up to expectations (your own expectations, I guess?).

          • wilson says:

            “So you can tell Jan he does not see the real picture, but no one can ask you questions” Im was not telling him, I was jus responding to what he said initially “interesting that Wilson and Tiju did not enter into the discussion here” and the reasons as I gave above.

            ‘Wim Jansens points are exactly about the developement of Dutch players NOW, esp players in the eredivisie” if this is the case then why that amateur is coaching NTand not him or why isnt Wim Jansens in KNVB. those are just his thoughts and vision jus like JCs which if only can be executed will justify what you are saying

          • Sybe Pals says:

            Ah, ok so the reason you don’t want to enter a discussion on how to fix the eredivisie, and thus our player quality, is that eredivisie players are not good enough or don’t reach expectations?

          • wilson says:

            Don’t think you are that dump pals.if you can’t understand what I’m have written then by all respect,you should go back to school again.

          • wilson says:

            You are jus going around in circles.if you can’t understand, read again,if you still can’t understand,get some help who can translate in for you better.

          • Sybe Pals says:

            😂

    • Emmanual says:

      take out Bazoer from list HE WILL BE BACK IF HE find a good coach like Koeman,Cocu,De boer etc…

  15. wilson says:

    jordy clasie had good reviews as Southampton beat Arsenal 2-0 to reach the EFL Semi final. he also scored the opening goal for the saints. Van Dijk also normal day in the office.

  16. steen says:

    I havent commented in ages and ive not really been following too much either lately.

    BUT, I was having a think, I think we actually have some very good players to build around going forward. So far we’ve suffered from ageing stars, some underwhelming eredivisie graduated and knvb chaos.

    Looking forward we have some solid keepers Stek/ Zoet

    and in every other area of the pitch we do have some big players
    Defence- Van dijk
    Midfield – Stroot- if he can get his rhythm back
    Attack – Robben

    And alongside these guys we do have some great supporting players that are lacking some fluency but are coming into the primes of their careers:
    De vrij, blind
    Wijnaldum, Even Fer- is playing well lately.
    Promes too

    So really i think some of the previously promising players are actually starting to adapt a bit and I think can bring something to the national team. There are others too but i think the jury is still out as they aren’t performing well or consistently in difficult leagues. Memphis could even be among the previous lists somewhere too when he gets some game time and development in.

  17. Emmanual says:

    Elia Saying he warned Memphis for moving to MAnu…..This shows Elia is a idiot…Memphis Move was so wise that he choose to work with LVG So he wnet to Manu..not coz it was Manu..he has 29 appearence in first season,yes off course he failed,thats due to his lack of pace as winger,to suceed in PL as winger u need pace and work ethos…Depay failed in it..and it was inevitable too neither Depay couldnt help nor LVG couldnt…..If it was totenham his stage would have been more pathetic now.as like janssen suffers now..http://www.goal.com/en/news/1862/premier-league/2016/12/01/30080732/-

  18. Jan says:

    I don’t know where to start to comment on some of the posts here…

    Van Aanholt might outrun “even Robben” but not with the ball. Robben speed with the ball is exceptional. Van Aanholt is quick without it. Van Aanholt is one of my fave players, don’t get me wrong but he needs to come into space. He is not that good when he is in the forward position and the ball is playing into his feet. This applies to most wing backs.

    Clasie is regularly mentioned as “most underrated player” on Southampton forums.

    Nouri has not even played two full matches for Ajax and he will be squatted aside like a fly if he’d play Pogba or Fellaini or Busquets or De Rossi. Don’t kid yourself.

    Depay went to the wrong club and went with the wrong coach. I think we can safely say this now, with 20/20 vision Tiju.

    Van Gaal is a narcissistic dude. When he is unhappy with you or feels you let him down, he’ll ignore you forever. This is what happened in 2000-2002 as well with his own lads.

    Memphis had to perform as a newbie at ManU – at a high level, twice the level of PSV – in a team that didn’t flow, that didn’t get space and where he was low in the pecking order. As explained before – but I wonder if you read and process what I write: at PSV he was the first player to get the pass if possession was turned over, by the midfielders. At ManU he was #4, after Rooney, Martial, Mata. All the space was gone.

    Speed has nothing to do with Memphis disappointing turns for Man U. There was no space to move into. The best game he played was against Middjyland who offered him space and he killed them.

    You need to learn to analyse what you see.

    And some empathy helps as well.

    • Emmanual says:

      Yes Annholt is incredibly fast with out ball,i rate Roben and Annholt same when it come to pace,Both will kill defenders with their speed…Yes Roben is class so either he scores or gives assist …But Annholt can connect/Receive to a sneijder pass hence we have greater chance of ball in final third..With Depay this is impossible..
      If you cannt do anything with a supportive coach who gaves u 29 chances in PL,then u cannt suceed in top level..but that doesnt mean that u will fail vs low level teams like Brugge,mitigland etc…
      Mata is also failure as winger.coz he lacks pace too..But Mata is exceptional player like Sniejder when he plays in right spot..offcourse they are so talented that they could deliver even something when they are playing at wrong spot..

      • Emmanual says:

        Nauri has exceptional skills,he is so talented than Depay…his natural talent is what we needed now…thats what Wim janssen is saying now…Danny Blind job is that make him ready to face hardnuts like De rossi etc…

  19. Emmanual says:

    Anyways Blind keeps on selecting some players and keep on failing when it matters…IT is down to selection of wrong 23 and final 11..thats A fact now…

  20. Jan says:

    Tiju (I refuse to name you Emmanual), Depay played 29 games under LVG and in some of them he was shite, in some he was ok and in some he was good. Stop talking shit.

  21. Jan says:

    No one likes haters mate. Go to a Memphis Hate forum.

    We love the guy. Even if he made mistakes. We love Johnny Rep, Andy van der Meyde and Fernando Ricksen too.

    We criticize Blind but we all believe most of his choices are logical.

    Blind is an Ajax and Oranje legend and deserves your respect.

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