I am sorry people. I know some of you don’t like the way Spain/Barcelona plays…
And as we lost against them in 2010, we might carry a grudge, but By Golly they played sensational against Italy, didn’t they?
And if you can win three big tournaments in a row, even with not that good football ( 2010) you deserve respect…
And although I do think Barcelona is getting boring and predictable at times, this Spanish side really impressed me.
For a couple of reasons. And obviously, I look at them thinking… Hmmm, if only Oranje could play like this.
1. They can kill of a game / opponent
They know how to play good football and they know how to win games. They hardly concede goals. And they have patience. Xavi, Xabi Alonso and Pique are not only great players, they are also great tacticians.
2. They are sooo skilled
Every touch, every pass, every run…it’s all pure football. They experience joy on the pitch for sure and they are all about the game. Sure, some of them (Busquets) dive and others are a bit dirty (Ramos) but all in all, they are outrageous.
3. They work like a team and don’t demonstrate prima donna behaviour
Oh yes, we read about the Barca-Real Madrid rifts and the bust ups… But under Senor Del Bosque they operated as a team. Super player Cesc had to sit on the bench. I didn’t hear him whine. Torres got a look in and then he was benched again. Juan Mata won the CL with Chelsea and only played 5 minutes… And not a single word of protest or discontentment. And these guys all had a big season. They all had 50 games or more. But they worked and worked their arse off.
I liked this tournament. We saw a cocky and “Dutch” Germany choke when it mattered most. Again! We even read in their newspapers that success coach Low is to blame and that they want to go back to their old ways. Playing ugly but win.
We saw England playing for what’s it’s worth. Which is never that much. But there is passion and pathos in that team and lots of physical issues as well.
We saw Croatia playing a Spain-lite type of football, we saw Portugal finally throwing the chains off and play with balls and we saw France implode again.
But most importantly, we saw Italy playing somewhat Dutch ( it resembled our World Cup campaign… never great… one midfielder (Pirlo/Sneijder) important and one forward important ( Robben/Cassano) while the other one got headlines for many reasons and not always the right ones ( Van Persie/Balotelli)).
I think to track back for Holland, to get to the place were Spain is, is not that hard.
We need to go back to our roots. And we need to find some good defenders. Arbelao and Ramos have demonstrated that we don’t need world class players on all the positions. Sergio Ramos compensates a lot with his mentality and physical strength. While Arbeloa is almost a pathetic figure in this wonder team.
But somewhere down the line, this Spanish team will fail. Xavi will get too old. The desire will go. Complacency might set in. Del Bosque might retire. Etc etc…. And then we will look back at the period 2008 – 2012 as the Spanish period and we will tell our grandchildren about the legendary Spanish team. And names like Iniesta, Fabregas and Casillas will mean as much then as Puskas, Eusebio, Cruyff and Netzer mean to us now…
Agreed.
OJF
Well, they accomplished a lot of records when winning the Euro yesterday. I am happy for them. Back in the day, Spain was anything but a recognized force in voetbal. Now they are huge.
Still, as it happens with the Oranje, they will have to go through cycles one way or another. It will be extremely hard for Spain to replace the historic Iniesta, Xavi, and Puyol. Just as it’s been for the Oranje to cover the losses of Kluivert, F. De Boer, and Bergkamp.
The Oranje is nowadays in some downswing. Nowadays’ generation is just not good. There is, at least, a “tradition” in Dutch voetbal to follow. An “idea” that I hope the Oranje will look up to return to. And you know, maybe someday we will have defenders in the same class as Ruud Krol, Ronnie Koeman or Frank De Boer, midfielders like Neeskens, Rijkaard, Van Haneghem, or Gullit. And killers like Van Basten, Bergkamp or Kluivert. Can’t mention any goalies as we never really had good ones like fieldplayers. By the way, am I the only one who believes that all the good goalies born in België instead? With the goalkeepers they had in the past the Oranje would have achieved more I believe (Preud’homme, Pfaff, etc).
But anyway, I believe it’s all about cycles, and generations. Someday we will celebrate, too. In the meantime, let’s just be happy that we had the chance to see Iniesta, Xavi, and Puyol play (yes, the last one did not played the final match..).
What Holland needs to do:
1- Benelux League
We need to move into a joint league with Belgium if we are to have any chance to reach the heights of Spain’s and Germany’s national team performance. And even to some extent Italy.
its really quite simple.
A big group of their players play with each other day in day out.
The collective is already there at the start of the tournament, and dont have to build it from almost scratch every two years.
Props to PSV btw next season for having several Dutch internationals in their roster, Wijnaldum, Van Bommel, Strootman, Pieters, Willems, Lens .. and I’m reading they’re looking to sign Maher or Narsingh or both.
2- I really believe we need to forget about having this whole formation with wide wingers as it is outdated and looking more and more restrictive. Spain doesn’t use real wide wingers, neither does Barcelona, nor Germany.
Plus we don’t have the players. Let’s face it. Bar Robben on the left, we have no one of world class stature or potential on the right. Unless Narsingh, Ola John develop beyond expectations, we have to just forget about it, and cater to the bunch of quality players we do have or expect to have from the upcoming generation. Clasie, Strootman, Maher, Wijnaldum, the De jong brothers..
3- The old guard still has something to offer. I’m sure Sneijder has learnt a hefty lesson this Euro. He did play well and upped his game this euro comparatively to the past two seasons, but my word did he completely waste two years of his development by being overconfident, too protected, too sure from himself, etc.. He has a lot to learn from Xavi and Pirlo. But Sneijder is just an example, same goes for all the established players Oranje has.
4- We need a good coach that understands tactics, knows how to create balance, and is WILLING TO TAKE RISKS AND EXPERIMENT before a tournament.
Actually this is the main reason why he should go. He didnt see the danger looming. He experimented too too little. He could have tried more with different players, and different systems.
5- the players need to grow the fuck up. Now after this EURO is over and looking in retrospect, the Dutch players behaved so poorly. like kids. No respect for one another, No group spirit. Instead they went about measuring whose dick is longest..
Hopefully this EURO would serve as a lesson for years to come.
AND in regards to the article, I don’t give a damn about What is doing, creating, has achieved or is about to achieve.
All i see , and care to see, is that theyve learnt from the Dutch for more than 15 years, starting in the nineties all the way till end of last decade.
They’ve learnt Dutch football philosophy, learnt from the best Dutch coaches available, learnt from the best dutch players of that period that were in Spanish teams… Cash-rich, eager to learn, Spain developed to the monster it is now. Now, they’re kings, they’ve achieved it all, and talk as if they’ve invented football. We’d be lucky to hear anywhere anytime a reference to Cruyff or the likes from anyone who talks football on this planet.
Viva Espana ? chuckle.
I just feel sorry for Holland. From going out rock bottom to Spain rehashing Dutch football and doing it better than we will (ever?) be able to do it, I think it’s quite a humiliation.
Important thing Holland learns.
*what is SPAIN doing
Nice touch at the end there Jan…
Really wish we could have been talking about Oranje but watching what Spain have done the last 5 years is something I won’t forget.
@RamyE
You made some really good points. Maybe the players haven’t said anything because they are so happy right now but Barcelona have always credited Cruyff for all his contributions. Rossell & Pep always give him the praise and credit. They hold Cruyff, Van Gaal, Rijkaard in very high regard. Maybe the Castillians (Madrd) just don’t want to acknowledge that it’s Barcelona’s adaptation of Total Football which has braught their country success.
I’d love to see a Nederland-Belgium league if not a full on Benelux league.
Exactly OranjeBoom, what we should be hearing is what you just said there in the end “acknowledge that it’s Barcelona’s adaptation of Total Football which has brought their country success” – which I don’t hear enough.
Now I have to read this shit in the morning.
acknowledge that it’s Barcelona’s adaptation of Total Football which has braught their country success.
I mean this:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/2898/euro-2012/2012/07/02/3213917/are-spain-the-greatest-international-team-of-all-time?source=breakingnews
Yeah thats kind of a crap article. Comparing all the eras is always going to be difficult and people always throw their bias in. That and the fact that people in the media are obsessed with Brazil. Then turn around and say Spain was successful because they won in the worst era. That’s total BS. The 1970’s Brazil team wouldn’t see the ball to score against today’s Spain. The training, nutrition, playing styles, physios, team doctors everything has progressed since then.
The article didn’t mention Nederland 1974-1978 and that alone shows the stupidity of the author. Trophies aren’t everything and the Dutch have done more for football alone than the 70’s Brazil/Germany team.
Just a couple points I wanted to add to what RamyE said…
1. Great teams succeed with great defenses. We have to go back to square one with defenders and make it a priority. We have Bruma, De Vrij, Gouweleeuw, Viergever, Nuytinck, Martins-Indi and they are still young and can still be molded into strong defenders.
2. The best national teams these days have a solid core of players coming from one club. Spain have Barcelona/Madrid, Germany: Bayern, Italy: Juve/Milan. I don’t care which Eredivisie club it is but we need to get the new spine of Oranje on one club playing together day in day out. Blending other players with them will be seamless.
3. We don’t exactly have a Xavi/Pirlo. The only players coming up that resemble them are Strootman/Clasie. I don’t know if Sneijder can’t do it anymore or if he just won’t but he has become a #10 which doesn’t really work in a 4-3-3. Sneijder & VdV are more Iniesta type players. They can do everything really well, great touch, dribbling but they play further forward. Wijnaldum is more of a forward player in the Ronaldinho mold so it will be down to Maher/Clasie/Strootman to step up. Unless someone else comes along.
Spain has a good LB and a good CB in Alba and Ramos, but Pique is a bit faulty at times, and Arbeloa is shit lol. Casillas is one of the best ever keepers and has saved their ass numerous times. Thats the luck u have to have when you play their football.
Total crap like most goal.com articles … My opinion – Don’t forget that Spain is nowhere close to Barca’s levels. They emulate Barca play but sporadically. Yesterday they were awesome, but look at the match against Portugal and the whole WC2010 campaign. They were boring and at times very lucky to pass a stage. Barca is something different … they fascinate you even when they lose, let alone when they win. Spain are a cynical re-incarnation of Barca … not as much attractive, but more succesful and more capable of winning tournaments. Even though yesterday they were very very attractive.
Dutch Total Football Philosophy + Hands-on decade-long learning from Dutch players and trainers + Shitloads of Money = Barcelona and Spain
‘And names like Iniesta, Fabregas and Casillas will mean as much then as Puskas, Eusebio, Cruyff and Netzer mean to us now…’
I’ll tell you what Cruyff means to us now:
He’s a traitor.
Our greatest ever player is a greasy Turncoat. I despise that smug, self satisfied look on his face. I see him gloating about another Spanish win and I feel physically sick.
Spain don’t play Total Football exactly, but it’s pretty obvious they play the Cruyff system. They’ve been working on this for decades now, and we are finally seeing the results of a generation BORN into this style, nurtured in it, living it, and free to express it.
This could so easily have been us.
Boss, I kinda agree with you but I don’t think this is fully a Cruyff betrayal. Where was KNVB when Cruyff was teaching in Spain. Did they ever approach him? Or the cheap bastards that they are they thought Cruyff is too expensive? Or they didn’t like his guts and said to hell with him? My feeling is that Cruyff was forced for his own benefit to built his life in Spain. It seems like he had unlimited resources in disposition at Barca. And to be honest it doesn’t seem like Cruyff is a big patriot either. Personally I will never understand why he didn’t join the team in Argentina 78.
No man….how can you say this :-)? JC was ready and eager to coach the Dutch in 1990 but MIchels snubbed him then and they repeated that in 1994. DOn’t blame JC for this mess. Blame the KNVB
What was the deal with “Iron Rinus” never letting Cruijff into the upper elechons of the K.N.V.B.? It seems that after their association with Ajax and Barcelona, Michels resented the very idea of Jopie. Do you have the background on that?
this is definitely a great and an era-defining team. sometimes they play boring football,but not conceeding any goal in the elimination phase of the last 3 international tournaments is something fantastic. this is gretest spanish generation ever and their first great generation. it won’t lost forever. they can win the 2014 world cup,but probably it will be their last great tournament. i’m happy for them,and not only because of the barca players,but because they are a real TEAM.
oranje had three golden generations,not one,but three: 1970s,late 1980s and the late 1990s/early 2000s (the current generation is much less talented than any of them,only wesley sneijder could be part of these teams,but robben is nowhere near overmars or rensenbrink). the problem is that spain’s golden generation has won 3 major trophies,and netherlands’ 3 golden generations won only one major trophies. this is an underachievement. i hope a new golden generation will come,but for this some players from this generation has to quit oranje (the over 30s plus robben,heitinga,etc.).
did spain copy the dutch way? first of all it’s not copyrighted. second: johan cruyff is more appreciated in catalonia than in the knvb offices. third: the current oranje could have played the dutch way too,but they didn’t. it’s always easier to blame anything than recognizing the fact that this generation is not as talented as the previous generations,the squad is very unbalanced,and some squads are stronger. why some people blame spain,barcelona,andres iniesta,howard webb,johan cruyff,etc.,while they should blame the fact that since stam’s and frank de boer’s retirement holland hasn’t been able to produce any decent defender. great teams are based on great defense,there’s no exception.
really not much to add…we just have to praise them…and just wait and wait and wait when would be our turn to show the world…i dont need some spanish player to tell the world we learnt it from a ducth master…thats like asking for consolation prize and i dont want that because we deserve more than that….please lets aim higher and go for GOLD and GLORY…may be world would trun full circle again and we would win evruthing and people would be too biased in our favour just like ppl are for spain…shit….would i live that long..
Let’s face it, in football we can conclude.
The english invented it,
The dutch developed it,
The catalans perfected it. Full stop.
Theyve succeeded where we failed. To produce titles and steady results with such attacking/posession football.
Spain is like what wouldve been if Cruyff and Van Hanegem had achieved what they could as players.
The good news is, we can get it back.
Spain has everything going for them sports wise, and I see our way back to the innovative top as part of a bigger problem, a bigger overhaul that is needed in our sports. If you wonder why Spain is doing so well in all kinds of sports, you have to take into account that, not too long ago, they reformed their entire sporting branche. Everything, from accomodations to training methods and youth development.
Our current chef de mission of NOC*NSF the olympic committee and sports chef so to speak. Was a hockey coach for the spanish national team for a while.
He said they did a massive overhaul and centralised the top sport programmes. So the best training facilities are available for each sport. If you win medals for Spain, you get rewarded quite handsomely. In Spain there’s a hierarchical structure that makes it possible to make decisions rapidly. Over here it works differently, I blame our nature of bargaining and decentralisation. Topsports structures work best with a certain hierarchy, like in the army, topsport and very democratic procedures dont work very well lol. The fact that youth development is being grouped with regional youth academies is a first step in the good direction. We need to get rid of the idea that we can do things on our own at every level. It’s in our own interest to work together and create the best possible circumstances for athletes.
Furthermore, Spanish athletes dont overestimate themselves, theyre modest about their achievements, proud but not arrogant, with a great deal of respect for opponents. Every sport gets chances to host a majore event.
Something our athletes have problems there, they sometimes think we’re better than we actually are.
Our sports associations have started centralising the programs, and Maurits Hendriks is at the forefront of this, developing a more organised structure for scientific support for the top sport. This is a big and important step.
In football you see that this dispersal is still the case, everyone thinks differently and alot tend to overestimate themselves. Where I see positive developments in our youth academies and with the introduction of Topklassen and relegation from first division, I also see a promising burst of talent coming through from eerste divisie in recent years: Mertens, Strootman, Assaidi among others. The number of dutch players getting chances is also promising. And especially Ajax under Frank de Boer is making a return to their own philosophy. Applaus for Frank ! 😀
Still, I think there is work to be done, putting all goofing aside for a moment there are 2 neighbours to our south who struggle equally in sports. We can and should all 3, benefit of the possibilities this gives us and work together, even if it doesnt produce incredible results, it will most likely be another improvement in the right direction, if you make alot of slow turns, eventually the flywheel will start accelerating.
Therefore I think our sports associations should work on structurally looking at the possibilities of combining our strengths with the Belgians and Luxembourg. In football alone, Belgians prove to be more efficient defenders and produce more dynamic/modern players. We can learn from this. I am 100% convinced that a combined competition of 16 clubs would improve quality and resistance for our players, enlarge the market, and give us a step towards a more steady stream of topclass talent.
Consider getting rid of clubs like Heracles, Nac Breda, FC Zwolle, VVV and Willem II, and adding Anderlecht, Standard Liege, Club Brugge. Thats like trading in a cheap mcDonalds burger for a salad. Although it seems so much less comfortable, it is the best choice for the long term.
On top of that, we need to start selecting our defensive players more carefully, in our philosophy of attacking football as Cruyff among others envisions it, there is no room for slow and static defenders. Our CB’s need to be strong, tall and fast, and preferably be able to give a decent pass. We need to be able to play high up the pitch and not be caught out. Our wingbacks can easily be former midfielders, but you have to start early in converting them, and stick with it, not switch the player 100 times and expect him to be great anywhere: see Emanuelson, Drenthe, Anita, N.De Jong, Wijnaldum… Spain wouldnt put Xavi as right winger so why do we play some talents out of position all of the time.
Our wingbacks need to be able to actually reach the backline and give a cross, unlike Arbeloa who is pretty shit lol.
Our holding mid need to be dynamic, the kind Leroy Fer is, with a good pass, who can go box to box if needed, preferably over 6 foot and a terrier. I say holding mid but we can have 2, as long as one of them is technically better than the V.Bommel/De Jong and has better stamina. Once you move to creative midfield and wingers, it doesnt matter much, we can have midgets there as long as they are technically skilled enough to do the job, think Ozil, Sneijder, Iniesta, Xavi, Silva, Messi, Pirlo… We need to get rid the notion of balance, with Kuyt etc. bullshit, you dont need 1 Kuyt for every 3 creative players, as long as everyone does their job and pressurize, track back etc. Spain plays with Alonso, Xavi, Silva, Fabregas and Iniesta.. they all do their part but are far superior to a player like Kuyt.
Cruijff was right in his idea that you need technical players and dynamics, leftbacks scoring, and reaching the opponents box, CB’s coming into midfield, midfielders and wingers changing positions, its all possible, as long as you pass and move, and position yourself correctly.
We need to stop upheaveling average joe’s and start rewarding the actual top players, the Sneijders who perform, those are the ones worthy of recognition, a talent of 20 needs to show he’s worthy of any respect, look at Labyad, he’s gone mental in arrogance. Maher on the other hand, what a perfect example of a superstar to be. Calm, composed, modest, lets make this our ideal.
To summarize, we need to get back to the root of the philosophy that earned us praise and stop creating players that see themselves as establishment worthy of reverence. Its all vergane glorie by now. Go back to our roots in football, reform youth development, work together with the Belgians and try to maximize the improvement we can get from that. Working towards a domestic league where talents develop to their maximum and make the step to the ultimate top for them, an easier one. The difference is just too big now. The positive steps being taken need to get accelerated with some ambition.
And we need to establish a code of conduct for internationals representing our nation. You sign it and act accordingly, or you leave and dont represent your country. Period.
Basically, we need to pull our heads out of our asses and work on the bigger picture instead of insisting Sneijder is as good as Xavi.
I’m proposing a Cruijffiaanse coup d’etat in our sports sector. Talent above everything, focus on talent, technique, positioning, and let youngsters develop from there, let them enjoy the game, and worry about winning later, say from 18-20 and on, and actually select according to positions, make a balanced decision about talents based on technical skills and physical qualities, you cant develope a technically inferior CB under 1.75. The two have to balance each other. Stop playing not to concede, and play to play, play to have the ball and to score.
The past 4,5 years have just been an affirmation of Cruijffs vision.
Well said, Alex. I think a Beneliga is at the top of what the Dutch need at this moment of time. We need a PSV and an Ajax full of internationals playing side by side day in day out.
However I’ve got the impression that the reason why this plan has failed so far is because the dutch clubs in particular are against it. It has very little to do with the KNVB apparently, who were quite keen to suck up to Platini and study the implementation of this project.
The Belgians from what I read seem keen. Dutch clubs not so much.
Also the fans in Holland don’t seem too eager either to get rid of the eredivisie, and lose a lot of already existing rivalry matchups in the process.
True, no?
The last round someone asked around, of the big dutch clubs I think only az wasnt too excite. Knvb has sent mixed signals, I suspect certain people within knvb are consistently lobbying against such an enquiry / research. Belgian association and topclubs are pro. There is going to be such a league in women’s football this season. Twente ‘s Munsterman helped to accomplish this, Ajax, psv, twente., standard, and brugge among others have joined with a women’s team.
Fantastic post Alex!
Spain is a devastating mix of many things:
1. Their traditional linkage with the Dutch system
2. Their current crop of excellent players
3. Country is bankrupt but Spanish football still can make use of large amounts of money
4. Spain added their own to the system … you can feel that there is something else to the Dutch system
5. The fact that most of the team comes from one system (Barca)
6. Excellent crop of coaches and the way they maintained team spirit across 3 tournaments
7. Last but not least, luck on their side for many years (not normal)
You need all these factors working together to achieve what they did … something which is nearly impossible to emulate.
Let’s take it one step at a time. We don’t need (have) to emulate Spain … we just need to get things working again for WC2014 🙂
That’s very short sighted lol, there is a very incidental and coincidental basis for our succes the recent years. Not the product of an actual well organized sports programme. Of course short term, things need to be fixed, but someone with vision needs to work/put some extra speed in reforming our football sector. A good steady, professional base and competition will be a lot more solid ground for rebuilding towards crops that actually play our trademark style football.
Im not saying Spain is the product of purely that, but people here seem to underestimate how the current generation of talents there wasnt just coincidence, it takes years of development into one playing style. Even the Spanish youth teams play the same style football.
And Im not saying anyone needs to emulate their play, but if you want to reclaim a certain trademark, attacking style of our own, there is more work that needs to be done than just fixing something for 2 years. I highly doubt we’re going to win the 2014 World cup, chances are slim to none.
Right on Jan respect for spain.
Spain first goal, wow…
We should not be jealous of spain, its a big nation and they failed to win 30, 40 years, out of lack of unity. ITs just normal they grab some prices having learned the importance of unity and togetherness, which we forgot. If we can learn and adapt our time will surely come!
But altho Spain played a great final I must say they did not plaY a good euro. In hindsight there will be praise for spain but also a footnote that they did not look that impressive during this Euro, almost lost from and knocked out by little Croatia and were extremely lucky, that they needed PKS againt Portugal,and that they played many games on a low burning engine, with football that makes you yawn.
Has anybody else read that Alexander Buttner wants to go to Southampton? Is this a good move? you know he will be guaranteed some playing time though.
http://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/item/knvb-zoekt-coach-die-van-egos-eenheid-maakt
sounds good. I hope it is Guus though. Frank is good but now I am super worried about our future and do not feel like taking any risk.
Southampton was a club I used to like. They struggled to survive in the PL on so many occasions before they finally got relegated a couple of years ago. They have a very good fan base. I’m glad they are back. The led most of the year in the Championship before getting promoted.
Buttner could be a good upgrade at the left back position for them. I’m sure he’ll get enough opportunities to play 1st team football. He would probably establish himself at that position for them.
PL is a tough league. More physical and fast-paced than a lot of the continental leagues. I do think that it’ll be good for his development. Southampton will also be playing in other cup competitions like the FA and Carling cups. He’ll definitely get a lot more publicity and exposure in the PL. He will get to play against some of the best players in Europe. I do believe if he indeed goes there, it’ll be a great move for him and potential competition/depth/option at the LB spot for Oranje.
yeah, any news on the next coach, if no coach, who will be the interim head coach?
What it means Mohamed??
“De KNVB is gestart met de zoektocht naar een opvolger van Bert van Marwijk. De profielschets is inmiddels opgesteld, weet De Telegraaf.
De voetbalbond is op zoek naar een ‘people manager’, die in staat is om van alle ego’s binnen Oranje weer een eenheid te maken. De nieuwe bondscoach zal boven alle partijen moeten staan en gebruik moeten maken van het Nederlandse talent dat op de deur klopt.
Op basis van die profielschets lijken Guus Hiddink en Frank Rijkaard de voornaamste kandidaten voor het bondscoachschap. Hiddink is echter werkzaam voor het steenrijke Anzhi Makhachkala, terwijl Rijkaard vastligt in Saudi-Arabië. Louis van Gaal en Co Adriaanse lijken kansloos voor de functie, schrijft de ochtendkrant verder.
Oranje slaat op 15 augustus het pad in dat naar het WK in Brazilië moet leiden. Voor die dag staat een oefenwedstrijd tegen België op het programma. De kans bestaat dat een interim-bondscoach dan op de bank zit. Drie weken later is de eerste WK-kwalificatiewedstrijd, Turkije is dan de tegenstander.”
The KNVB has started the search for a successor Bert van Marwijk. The profile has been drawn, says De Telegraaf.
The Football Association is looking for a people manager who is capable of all the egos within Orange unit to another. The new coach will have to stand above all parties, taking advantage of the Dutch talent that knocks at the door. Based on that profile seem Guus Hiddink and Frank Rijkaard the main candidates for the coach shelf. Hiddink is working for the wealthy Anzhi Makhachkala, while Rijkaard is fixed in Saudi Arabia. Louis van Gaal and Co Adriaanse seem hopeless for the job, the morning newspaper writes further. Orange stores on August 15 that the path to the World Cup in Brazil to lead. For that day is a training match against Belgium in the program. The chance that an interim coach on the bench. Three weeks later, the first World Cup qualifier, Turkey than the opponent.
http://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/item/knvb-zoekt-coach-die-van-egos-eenheid-maakt
i highly doubt guus hiddink will do it, unless there is some big money, or a big time change of heart. and with frank rijkaard he’s under contract, unless the saudi arabians pay him off or fire him,
what names fit that template that we might not be thinking of? Foppe de Haan?
all we get for sure is people manager, so who do we have who is a people manager?
BVM was a players’ manager. Dutch need somebody who can make tough personnel decisions and build a cohesive TEAM.
key word, “was” a players manager, but he lost it toward the end,
I would like a dictator instead of a players manager, but if thats what the knvb want, then so be it.
But i care more about being respected as manager, whether it’s players manager, or dictator, just have all the players respect, and get rid of those who don’t
Agree! The Dutch need somebody who want tolerate any Dutch egos. Spain wins not because they have a lot of great individual players but because they have good players who play hard and have a wonderful chemistry with each other–they are unified and seek team glory, not individual glory.
Question for anyone……
Now that Spain are world and euro champs does that mean that we get invited to the COnfederations cup next year as WC runner up………OR does Italy get the invite for being Euro eunner up?
italy gets invited as the euro runners up
line up for confed cup is
Tahiti (oceania)
Spain (world)
Italy (europe)
Brazil (hosts)
Uruguay (south america)
Japan (asia)
Mexico (north america)
Zaire (africa)
think about this, new zealand got beat 5-0 against spain in last confederations cup, now they have one of the worlds worst teams in Tahiti, That can play against spain, the number 1 team
Without the Dutch influence, which started with Michels and Cruijff and then continued with many, many more Netherlanders, the exceptional accomplishments of Spain would not have occurred. As other bloggers have said, the Dutch taught it to the Spanish, who have now perfected it. As a fan of Holland, I admire the Spanairds for their implementation of so many techniques and attitudes brought to Spanish soil by Dutch coaches and players. We should be pleased and proud of that influence.
I have never been a supporter of trying to categorize any team or player as “the best ever.” It is a determination that can not be proven and has no value. During the match yesterday, the English announcers here in America started talking about comparing this Spanish national team with the Brazilians of 1970 (were they the “best ever” before now?!) Excellence is always excellence in the moment, no matter who performs it. The Spanish have been excellent these past three tournaments–hurrah! But the Germans, Italians, Brazilians, Argentinians, Uraguayins, French, English and Dutch have also been excellent in their moments of high-level skill, technique and team play–hurrah! I look forward to more of that skill, from whomever can produce it, and with the hope that once again, some of it will come from our favored Netherlands national team. It is the excellence of the Dutch that makes us follow them and respect them, not how many major tournaments they may have won.
Talent , experience , mentality and luck .
This is the quartet of trophies . I just think we , unfortunatly , always had one of them missing .
I think willingness tops them all off.
yeap. and good psychology. at this level, all players know enough soccer to beat the other. It is a question of will/believe. Period.
I Agree .
We need many sneijder/kuyt-like mentalities in Oranje before we win a trophy .
I would add vBommel to this list – what failed him this tournament was not his spirit I dont think, It was his legs.
Joris Mathijsen is a big time fighter too… And Nigel DeJong is another true soldier…
Mark and Nigel at their highs cannot be beaten !
im not the biggest fan of the way these spanish play…but what they showed yesterday was close to amazing ; sure they were lucky with the injury and the 10 men italy had to play with,,, but they showed some proper football..
well done Spain, well deserved
Spain with an epic run…surprised italy conceded 4 goals. didnt get to see the game, was busy grilling all day, but spain deserved to win.
anxious to see who our new coach is
what is working for spain is that they have 2 teams… one team that is aggressively developing players and buying international talent and another team that is spending more money than any other team buying top talent.
Firstly, huge congrats to Spain! I do not like the result but as a fan of the sport, I have to admit they played really well yesterday. They really surprised me in a positive way the same Italy suprised me in a negative way. I guess the Italians were exhausted mentally and physically after that win against ze Germans.
Some of us on this blog criticized the way Spain played, to which I disagree with. Reason being, it is very hard to play all matches in a tourney well then winning it. We did not look good in early matches of 1988. Conversely, we looked great lots of time during the 90/00 golden generation era and in 2008 only to lose when it mattered. It is also worth noting that Spain lost to Switz in their first match of last WC, which was pretty mind-boggling. But in the end, the showed up when it mattered and really I have never seen attacking football like they played yesterday in recent years. They pretty much did NOT give any chance to the Italian since the kick-off. Italy got some decent chances to score as well but pretty much deflated after down by 2 goals.
This generation of Spanish player to me is like seeing the Spanish version of our 90/00 golden generation. With some luck, it could have been very well our beloved Oranje hoisting 2-3 extra trophies.
Another observation is about team formations. We talk a lot here about 3-4-1-2, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, etc. but it seems to me that it is more important to have the type of players you want to field then dictate the formation rather than vice-versa. On paper, Spain’s formation is 4-6-0 but Cesc and Iniesta were always upfront, etc. So translating this to the Oranje, we should really select 11 best (and most willing to fight/run) players then decide on the formation.
Thoughts?
I agree – formation should fit the players and not the other way round. This is a much larger argument, I think to go back to Oranje, you’d need a coach who’s made up his mind on who he’s going to play too and the debate between RvP and Hunterlaar. For example, you can definitely play RvP as a fake striker, but then you’d need Afellay, Robben and Sneijder to run into the box. Sneijder did that but neither wing did.
Defence wins championships !!!
That was proved again. This is always be true. Spain had a great D. They conceded only 1 goal in this Euro. Unfortunately, we never had one. Not even in the Jaap Stam/Frank De Boer days. They were certainly better than Heitinga/Mathijsen but surely not in the top class.
To support my argument, I have included a video of a warm up game in 1998 against Nigeria just before the World Cup. Although we won 5-1, notice how many times the Nigerian forwards were completely open and unmarked in our penalty box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1cTxZ3pR1A
The less said about current defenders, the better. This is something that we all agree. Unless we develop good defenders in our “hibernation” period, we will never achieve any further glory in any major tournament.
Dont overestimate their defence. Pique is in a purely defensive perspective not that great, he’s just strong quick with decent technique. Alba and Ramos are good but arbeloa is pretty shit, having a goalie like casillas has saved their ass often enough. Also its alot easier to defend when you have 70 % possession and the whole team actually works hard to pressurize and defend.
I think Spanish defence is more than the four in the back. It’s the hard work of Xabi Alonso, Busquets, Iniesta. Fabregas, etc. 32 year old Xavi doesn’t defend in the classic sense but he defends positionally. Blocking the through ball or blocking the deep pass. Spain understands this “team concept” a la Oranje74, Ajax95 and Barca2011 really really well 🙂
I can see the same. When defending, there are 10 Spanish players to defend their territory, that’s what we call team work….
Thanks for the video. Almost all the goals come from crosses, left or right flank.
Luuk de Jong won’t move to Newcastle. Too expensive. He’ll move to Borussia Monchengladbach now.
El Ahamadi signed for Paul Lambert’s Aston Villa. Excited to see him in the EPL.
Buttner very close to moving to EPL promovendus Southampton. Great to see him at that level.
Vilas Boas to become Rafa’s new manager at Spurs.
Good for Buttner. Good for the Oranje 🙂
damn ajax still has not sold El hamdaoui Sulejmani Enoh…;( has not bought nothing after Schone:(
Frank is so happy with what he got or he cant get what he want… it seems narsingh can make a little more with PSV and Ajax not budging, refuse to offer more…Frank has announced a new policy: The club wont pay more than they want and if players dont like it they can go. If they dont accept new contracts after 3 weeks Ajax will withdraw the offer.
No gouweleeuw or viergever either… yet..Nuytinck can make big bucks in the UK and its too late for him and ajax… its very very quiet. That sulejmani still with ajax that kind of annoys me.
i think they have to wait for vertoghen to be sold before buying anyone i would think?
apparently with nuytinck lots of clubs want him, but no one has given a fax, or concrete offer
who wants to get enoyh, sulejmani and el hamadaoi? i
yes I was hoping some lunatic would snatch them up, or ajax give them away with some deal with french subtop club or Malaga or someting like that…Fulham, Jol, Elhamdaoui, he is a good player but need to go, I really hope Ajax take action soon.
I dont know if Frank handled this well, ajax is losing so much money on this and they could just destroy the contract or send him away for free, do something creative ajax and dont be so goddamn proud.
How can some of you critisise Spain’s play when our play over the last 6 years has been Anti-football thuggery by a bunch of winey brats. What a disgrace our team has been. Spain’s football comes from Cruyff and we have turned our backs on Total Football. I’ll support Spains football anyday over ours.
Well done Spain and I hope it continues for a few more years yet.
are you really a fan? Anti-football when? besides the spain game when did we play anti-football? we haven’t played as much attacking football as i would like, but anti-football never,
I think you mean, we have not played entertaining football. there is a difference.
wait a minute? aside from DeJong’s totally accidental challenge what else did we do out of the normal during the Spain game??? It was and should always be a man’s game.
BTW, diving, cheating is ok then? come on. give us a break … having the establishment on your side, yellowing non-stop and diving at every opportunity is what? fair and square ?
only tackle i saw that was intentional was van bommel taking out iniesta, Besides that, spain was diving all over the place, xavi intentionally hit van bommel, Puyol grabbing robben,
Of course the Kung Fu death Pinch Heitinga pulled on iniesta causing him to lose control of his body and fall to the ground. Getting him a deserved red card right?
Did you guys even see iniesta’s rash tackles, he could have easily been sent off.
Did you guys see the ignored fould on eljero elia, when sergio ramos and pique just sandwich elia and not go for the ball?
>Puyol grabbing robben,
man if that is not a violation, then what is it ???? WTF !
Wow- I am glad that I was not blind. People whom I talked to about the match 2 years ago said that I was biased, Oranje played like thugs, etc. I kept telling them that de Jong’s kick to Xabi (one of my favs ex. Reds, btw) was unintentional but it was the media’s references to “karate kick” that did not help. Nigel had always been tough but not a dirty player, some EPL close-watchers confirmed my opinion but I was still called biased.
On the contrary, I thought Iniesta was a dirty little cheating b@$t@rd who dives at any little chance he had (kinda like Robben but worse because Robben got this diver reputation and Iniesta does not).
But since they are winning, I suppose it is easier for people – most are glory-hunter fans – to look away from the fact that they dive or play dirty.
Webb came out in the second half with a clear mission to slow down, cut down Holland and possibly expel one or two. And so he did.
If Iniesta is that good, then why he has to get out Heitinga and yellow the rest of the Oranje before he scores?
Let me tell you why: Cause at PIGS “I stole it” and “I won it” are synonyms.
IMO, Spain never beat Holland and that final is still an unresolved affair …
Today I could watch the spanish celebrate without any problem for first time in two years. Now I can forget all about that ugly and unfair final. Two years I didnt like to see that red shirt.. but now i dont see them a rivals but a a great team,
this time they won deservedly, and were real honorable in winning too. A beautiful final, spain played new football, I can watch them now without any pain, they are true champions and I can live with that. Gracias espana for this great game.!
BTW, where is Eljero Elia? I think he has left Juventus and moved to England or Germany.
I think Liverpool wanted him?
juventus stated elia will be leaving,
Schalke 04, Liverpool, West Ham United (along with teammate krasic) wanted him.
Out of nowhere, according to http://www.vi.nl/nieuws/223842/Juventus-loopt-niet-warm-voor-verhuur-Elia-aan-Werder.htm
Werder Bremen are hot on his trail, ON top of that, they made a bid, official bid for 7.5 million euros, and were rejected, and stated they upped it,
Juventus wants the 10 million they got for him so they can break even.
thanks for the info, 10 millions is expensive.
They changed the coach after 2008. The core players are the same. They are consistent. They can lose a friendly game (Portugal 0-4) but in a tournament, they win when it matters, even they lost the first game or behind, they do not panick. They responded. No whining if benching because they put the team first. They deserved it and unless some other team prove otherwise, they will win WC2014.
Some interesting facts: In 2008 they average 30+ pass before shot. In 2010 it was 40+ and now 2012 it is 50+ pass. They can switch from 4-3-3 to 4-6 (no forwards).
I saw only 2 teams that comes close to challenge them. Oranje in 2010 and Portugal in 2012 (if we can be more clinical in finish)…
Yes, who will beat spain in 2014. Germany I dont see it, Podolski Kroos Muller Gomez are just simple bundesliga players, and will only get worse. If they work hard and run fast they have a trong side but its not much, even with Ozil. I think we have seen the best already of them, or they might want to change their team. Maybe if they go back to their style…
Italy maybe but they will have the mental disadvantage of 2012 in their heads. Balotelli.. nice striker but not sure if he is the new inzaghi or del piero…
England could have better talent next time but they always disappoint in WC.
Holland could do it if we change our ways, rebuild our team, if we get our talent together and use sneijder well, make douglas sane, and robben selfless… and find a new winning streak. I certainly think its possible and also possible to cruh all our opponent in the qualification, hungry for revenge.
who else is there? Brazil and Argentina will have the advantage of playing home or close to home. Spain is just another favorite and if they meet brazil it will be near impossible for them to get through. Brazil will win the WC!
no one mention uruguay,the best south american team. they are more capable of beating spain than any other team. brazil can play at home,but they don’t have the players. argentina? their defense is as crap as the dutch defense. oranje? we’ll see it,i have no idea. probably not germany. after all,i expect a spain-uruguay final in 2014.
We will beat them!
Haha ok!
brazil will lose to argentina in the semifinal and argentina will lose to holland in the final after holland defeats germany in the semifinal on the other side….
NL
ARG NL
|___________| |___________|
BRA ARG NL GER
Will you be writing more about this?
@demi,
IMO, Spain never beat Holland and that final is still an unresolved affair …
—
We could be twins!
I still have problems everytime people tell me that “Holland got outplayed” in that final. I am sick of hearing that. Yes I am obviously biased but seriously were we watching different match? I don’t think we were outplayed, we had at least 2 legitimate chances of scoring (thanks, Arjen!).
And yes, I think Iniesta is an overrated player and underrated diver.
jealous dutch fan calling iniesta overrated,then what is your stupid robben
Spain and Barcelona became part of the football history no matter what others might say about their game.Performances speaks for them!
Dear Arjen,i am sorry for some fake Oranje fans’ hurt to you.i’m a chinese fan of you,a girl.i know they’are ugly,but as you believe,we true fans love you the most.they like money,but we love you.i regret for i can’t go to watch your games.it’s my dream.chinese fans love you the very most.but many Oranje fans don’t like you and even hate you.sorry for our hurt to you.they like criticise your mistake in 2010 WC.but we still love you.please don’t feel regret to us fans.you are the best in our eyes.
i believe and hope you bring Oranje to the top of the world in 2014.no matter what the result will be,we will still love you.
so don’t metion those people who hurt you.they are not your and even not Oranje fans.
good luck to you.
love you the most,
roffen.