Before I begin this post: I have something new and exciting on the homepage! Exciting for me, that is hahaha. A donation option!! Yes… You can finally share the love with me ;-).

Seriously, I do incur some cost for this site and although I’m happy doing this I wouldn’t mind you would support me for the time I put into this… So, that is all I will say about it. For now. I will try and make the option a bit more sexy, but for now, it works. Wanna check? Be my guest!

Back to football!

I can imagine most of you are getting really anxious reading about all the things that will happen with Oranje.

Let me assure you: most of the stuff that you read is spat out into the open by none other than Johan Derksen.

A vulture.

This guy is the biggest commercial rat out there. He is the publisher/editor of the VI magazine, co-produces the tv program he co-hosts and he publishes football books (which he plugs constantly during the program). He makes stupid music cds around the euros and is the one to gain most commercially from the Dutch team. But whenever he can, he will slander and criticise and humiliated our players.

Take the wife of Heitinga. She is not a bad looking girl. And apparently wants to be on tv, like Sylvie. So he attacks her in a vile way for being the leak of Oranje and trying to be as good as Yolanthe and Silvie. And in a vile and meanspirited way.


Mrs Heitinga

He will never conduct himself in the right way of checking sources and stories out but is the first to throw up his rumours on telly because he wants to be first.

Last time he said “all players have a line out to their fave reporters and then they will use those reporters for their own personal interests etc etc.” A day later, he suddenly comes with all sorts of stories about all the big name players in the squad. Bar one. Wesley Sneijder. So the show’s host asks him: so now you have a player chucking a line out and using you, eh? And as Sneijder is the only player not named in his diatribe, the link must have been Sneijder. Or maybe Derksen makes it all up?

I watch the program ( I like Rene van der Gijp) but I loath Johan Derksen.

The stories simply don’t add up.

Now he said Bert doesn’t want to work with Hunter and Raf anymore. Ridiculous.

I personally don’t believe that is true. Two days ago, for instance, he said that the whole squad wanted Huntelaar out, as he behaved like a spoiled brat. Jack van Gelder, the reporter on the rival channel, checked this over the phone with Sneijder ( on holiday on Ibiza), who said: “Huntelaar? Bullshit. That is nonsense. We didn’t have a problem with Huntelaar.”

So, Derksen is trying to create mayhem, because it sells magazines.

But if it is true, it would be stupid. If Raf and Hunter were showing discontent, it had everything to do with expectations management by Van Marwijk. I don’t think these players were annoyed that they didn’t play, but that there was no clarity. Van der Vaart had demonstrated his contributions and value at the World Cup 2010 and in the qualification games. He expected to hear from the coach what the plans were, but the coach was never consistent in his communication and choices.


Van Persie and Huntelaar with an awkward embrace

If there is one thing, players despise in a coach, it is uncertainty and doubt.

Cruyff is 100% right when he said that no one on telly sees the big picture. They are all talking about Ibi being arrogant, Robin not needing to talk to the media, Robben being selfish, etc etc. But that is all symptoms!! Not the problem.

The problem is management! Clear and simple.

Codes of conduct.
Shared values.
Rules.
A shared objective.
And sanctions if you don’t live by this.

If the rules says that players need to be available for interviews, then Mr Wenger and Van Persie have a choice: either you give interviews or you are out.

If the rules say that the coach needs to be clear and consistent, then Bert should not exit Urby for not being a real left back but at the same time keep Schaars for that spot.

If the rule says that benchwarmers can not come to the Euros, sorry, but Bouma and even Afellay shouldn’t be there.


Johan Cruyff: “Talk to the hand, Bert! Talk to the hand…”

If the leader does not behave in accordance to the code, the players won’t either.

So, despite my sympathy for Bert ( he won us a UEFA Cup in 2002 and got us to the World Cup finals) but he made too many mistakes to be given a second chance. I simply don’t think it will work. So, I’m protecting Bert a bit as well.

The travel arrangements ( 3 big flights before 3 big matches???) were a big blunder.

The selection criteria changes ( Bouma, Afellay, Willems, Maher, Anita, Emanuelson) were questionable.

The “chance” Vaart and Huntelaar were given was questionable.

The decision to play a non-fit Afellay and bench fit Vaart or Narsingh was questionable.

Not instructing Robben to play on the left and cross balls in was questionable.

Too many things happened (in my view) to ever enable players and coach to look each other straight in the eye.

I think Bert should say to the KNVB: “I want another chance, but I want a round table meeting with my key players. If they afterwards demonstrate a will to go forward, cool. If not, I will resign.”

And I wouldn’t invite Bouma or Narsingh per se, but the strongholders of the team: Sneijder, De Jong, Stekelenburg, Van Persie, Robben, Huntelaar, vd Vaart, etc.

And have a go. For half a day, full day, what ever.

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0 responses to “Don't be fooled by all these media people”

  1. AL says:

    So Jan shares my opinion about Derksen … and most of the Dutch do. So please stop this doom and gloom about our team, especially if it is based on reports by Derksen and other similar Dutch reporters.

  2. Sandeep says:

    hi JAN…i tried to donate…but once the paypal page comes…it is in dutch…second time i tried it with the token amount of small beer it came in english but since i wanted to change the amount when i went back to the home page again to start the excercise again..the paypal site since then is always coming in dutch…will try again tomorrow…pls see if this can be solved..will comment on the article tomorrow and heading home now…cheers..

  3. Samuel Oudegeest says:

    Great point on the media hype – it’s mostly BS.

    But your general point is right on the coach is responsible for doing what it takes to give the players the best chance to perform – and KNVB and the BvM just didn’t do that. It wasn’t 1 or 2 blunders, it was a whole string. They never gave the players a chance to gell, never gave them chance to get fit, never took any chances so had no plan B, etc.

    One other note – we tend to forget that these stars are people with very different personalities and interests. Other than being isolated ultra-confident stars – they have very different ways of looking at the world. For example listen to Van Persie, then listen to Robben or Sneijder – can’t imagine they have much to talk about other than voetbal. But Van P obviously has always wanted VdV on his side – even pitched him to Wegner (who should have bought him, BTW) because he’s got one of the best through balls around.

    So people management is always tricky on every national side – but even if you don’t believe all the media BS – BvM missed it this time. One note on that – I felt sad for van Bommel – he looked entirely accepting of his benching – I actually believe he told BvM – I have to sit.

  4. Onzie says:

    yes exactly, thats why you write this blog man, props!

    Bert Van Marwijk can’t command respect when he doesn’t follow his own rules.

    so many instances where some players that could benefit our team more, are left out and others are taken. if the rule is they have to play regularly, i can live without elia, if he makes sure not to take afellay.

  5. HedonistiX says:

    Jan,

    Thanks for a reasonable and cool-headed evaluation. All of us have voiced our rants and pointed our criticism to many different directions but I think you summed them all well in your 5 points with ultimate responsibility lies in Management.

    P.S.: that reporter whose pic you attached really looks like a fat version of William H. Macy

  6. Balkan says:

    For all the reasons that Jan mentions BvM should not be given a second chance. He must leave immediately regardless of who else is available to take over coaching position.

  7. AL says:

    @Balkan,

    “Regardless of who else is available” no i don’t agree. Change for change sake is not wise. If we can’t replace Bert with an excellent alternative, we should keep him for some months until the alternatives become available. There is plenty of time for the WC, unless anyone of you beleives that Bert is not capable of winning the qualifiers … in which case this is pure nonsense given that his results in WC2010 and EC2012 qualifiers were impressive.

    • Balkan says:

      AL. How do you define an excellent alternative? I, myself really believe that any other coach (I include here Van Gaal) would be able to do a much better job with this crop of players than BvM. And how does it help to keep Bert for a few qualifier games? Suppose he wins 2-3 games, does he still get to stay? Would he accept this role? I don’t believe so.
      And NO, we don’t have a lot of time, actually there is no time at all. You either install a new manager soon or keep Bert until the next fiasco.

  8. OhYeah says:

    AL:

    Yes, but the team is completely broken at the moment. The qualifiers start in two months, we don’t have “plenty” of time. Plus a lot of regulars will be retiring (or at least they SHOULD be retiring). We don’t have any time at all!

  9. Demi says:

    Bert should not lead us to the WK2014 but if there is no better alternative then he can stay a few months. All the discipline/policy issues mentioned here are correct and of course, some of us are too old to believe sensational journalism.

    But none of the above changes the performance factor during the game. We don’t need Derksen to tell us what we saw on the pitch… Most players simply sucked. Frustration with the coach no way can justify the abysmal performance.

    Bert was in charge and should get a good part of the blame but the responsibility of the failure burdens the players … a lot…

    • Jan says:

      Demi, if Bert is simply not the man, how can there be no alternative???? There ALWAYS is an alternative. Even Alfred Stuivenberg, the KNVB youth coach who won 3 cups already, is an option for me.

      • Ed says:

        I like Stuivenberg….He has no big team experience but his tactics are great…they may only work with players that will actually listen AND follow through his instructions…..

  10. AL says:

    We will have even less time if we install a new coach and find that he doesn’t have the right stuff for the WC. So no, i would like only one good change between now and the WC. If there are no good alternatives the change can wait.

  11. Hien says:

    Just leave Bert in. Let Oranje fail WC2014 then JC comes and kick the whole KNVB Board out and we rebuild from the top.
    Given that we have 3 months now, I think it is better to leave Bert and wait for October – March window where we have 5 months before Estonia game. We need time to find a right coach. A new coach will have a bit more time. If we fail miserably in the first 4 games see the first paragraph above for how to proceed.

  12. Snoranje says:

    Exactly.
    I don’t need a review. I know what I saw in those games:

    A stretched/polarised team – too great a distance between defence and attack.
    Poor attitude.
    Poor conditioning.
    Bizarre substitutions.
    Squabbles – even aimed at the manager.
    No plan B.
    The list goes on and on…. It’s a catalogue of disasters.

    The buck stops with the manager. He is responsible for most of these errors. Therefore he must go.

    BVM must NOT be allowed to oversee anymore Oranje games. Imagine if he even wins one or two. Try sacking him then! He has damaged our future enough already, thank you.
    We are grateful for the WC final. Now he must step aside and do the right thing for our country.

    That is not to say I don’t feel sorry for Bert. I do.
    He is a victim of his own circumstance, yes, but he got very little support from his players, the media and the fans when we started to lose games. He must feel let down – humiliated even. Well, that’s how we feel too.

  13. Demi says:

    >October – March window where we have 5 months before Estonia game.

    right. But aside from coach we also need to find new players 🙂

    what you and I and everyone else saw on the pitch was the true picture of this generation. Eventually their skills – or lack of- became obvious.

    6 defenders that cannot create and 4 selfish creative players who do not track back anymore. Bert cannot continue but this generation has come to an end as well.

    That was available to Bert, nothing better at that moment. And he took that material as far as possible, exceeding all expectations. These guys, are not total footballers, they are only good for the 4-2-3-1 with Bommel/DeJong. It worked for 3 years. It came to an end like everything else.

    We need new material. Not just coach.

  14. Bitterballen says:

    According to this report the team will be rejuvenated:

    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/06/dutch_football_team_to_be_reju.php

    I re-watched the world cup 2010 final and QF and I was reminded of Kuyt’s importance to the team defensively. I don’t think we give him enough credit for his defensive execution. I wonder how we would have done with him and a younger Gio-type player in our Euro squad. Both provide such strength to our defensive, it cannot go unnoticed. We really need able replacement to be successful. I was never a big fan of Dirk until Euro 2008 came along. Now I cannot thank him enough for his help! Also, if he was in the squad until the end we might not have conceded the goal to SPain in the final!

    • Snoranje says:

      Yes.
      Dirk Kuyt is not a great player.
      But his presence, his attitude, motivates those around him to become great players.

      Kenny Dalglish learned this the hard way.
      Now Bert has learned it too.

      • goldstone says:

        Kuyt always earns his Heineken!

      • Richard says:

        You don’t need “great” players at every position. You need strong team players–and Kuyt was/is that in spades. He had a very good WC–it was plain to see. He bothers the opponent when they have the ball, and the Dutch Euro12 squad had very few players who could do that. And he can set up goals. You need //selfless// guys like that–whether it’s Kuyt or someone else with his qualities.

        • hurshi says:

          this is so hilarious.
          at the beginning of the EC, everyone was yelling that Kuyt sucks and is defense minded attacker. Now he’s got number of supporters.
          You guys seem little lost.
          I thinks he’s old now. Sorry.

    • Balkan says:

      So according to this, dropping KJH is rejuvenation? I say this is bullshit and witch hunt by BvM. Enjoy him.

  15. Hien says:

    Germany and Spain have the luxury of blending young players into experienced squad and they do it well. I think Italy did a nice job to rebuild (see Italy’s latest squad. They kept Buffon and Pirlo and De Rossi).
    One option is from the current Oranje squad, we keep the 3 keepers plus Willems,Strootman, Narsingh, Luuk De Jong and perhaps Sneijder. Sneijder is not as good as Pirlo. The risk is that we may not qualify for WC2014 (or possibly go into the 82-86 darkness period) and you need a new coach, not Bert to do this. Bert was too comfortable with the players and the system after getting to 2010 final that he did not see the team degraded after that.
    The other option is leave Bert and see what he can do to regroup. I was thinking that in the past Oranje has a tendency of getting through qualification with one coach and then go into final with another (I don’t know why they had such an idea). Perhaps not anymore?

  16. goldstone says:

    BvM doesn’t coach the kind of football I like to watch, it’s true… except in friendlies, where everyone seems to flow a little more loosely in the 4-2-3-1. But maybe that’s just me.

    What BvM brings is a sort of hard tack realism: It’s tough to chew on, but it works. The international cups are won on defense; underdogs lay back and counter, play for the tie. BvM adjusted the team to that reality — but froze it in place.

    A thaw is coming, with or without Bert. It will be exciting to watch, because we have great players and the most gezellig voetbal culture in the world. 🙂

  17. Bitterballen says:

    @ hien, let me remind you… Sneijder carried the team on his shoulders to the WC final.

    If he didn’t have to manage egos and sacrifice his position so others can be happy and try to improve he would have dominated the Euros too. Sneijder is as good as Xavi if not better, he is one of a kind. We must build and rebuild around him.

  18. Jeff says:

    I am not sure why we are having these discussions about Bert. He will stay period. So now what we have to do is support his rebuilding effort even if we don’t like it all that much.
    I vote for Wes as captain and building the team around him. De Jong and Anita the other MF. Bring in new defenders Douglas, Pieters will come back and we should be in good shape.

    • Uitlaatklep says:

      BvM might have had a workable plan that panned out either because or in spite of him in 2010, in 2012 he proved he is not a coach at NT level because he had absolutely no workable alternative to his very narrow plan when it didn’t work out. Does the KNVB want to continue with this coach that proved to be unable to make his team perform the only trick he has up his sleeve?

  19. OranjeBoom says:

    It was bad man management. There was no consistency to BvM’s methods (or lack there of). You can’t say “Only players that are regulars for their club will be chosen” and then start Afellay when Narsingh had a great year. VdW was injured much of the season but he had a starting spot. Yet Huntelaar had a phenomenal season but he has to hit the bench?

    I think there was too much arrogance by certain players because they’re places were “guaranteed”. That caused resentment by players who had great seasons and deserved a shot but never got it. The division into these 2 groups was CAUSED BY BvM.

  20. Hien says:

    I like Sneijder too, but as Demi points out, Sneijder does not track back, take the ball and distribute the way Pirlo or Xavi does. I agree that we should build the team around him. We need another player to track back, distribute the ball or link to Sneijder. I can think of Strootman or Classie. I was hoping to play Strootman with Douglas at the back so Strootman can go forward and let De Jong or Classie drop back to defend. I think that perhaps we need to retain more core players and bring in more young players and hope somehow this team can do well. A drastic change is perhaps too much to this team right now.

    • Demi says:

      just to be fair, both Sneijder and Robben tracked back at WK2010. That is why that team was hard to beat. They simply stopped doing that, could be an age factor, motivation factor or a combination.

      If you look at the top teams now, all 4 in the semis, they dont have more than 1 or two players max that don’t track back. In our games, we had around 4. How can you win ?

      This is the biggest challenge I see for the Oranje. No matter who is the new coach, how we rebuild the defense, etc. If we keep all the primadonnas in the front, even if we have 2 Pique and 2 Puyol in the back we will still lose important games. Period. You cannot play modern competitive soccer when 4 guys camp outside the opponent box.

  21. Bitterballen says:

    Do you guys think jordie Classie will be ready to go for WC2014? I would love to see him… just hope that he doesn’t play Sneijder’s position.. he looks like a #10 to me.

    • Onzie says:

      i would like for him to be ready, but he hasn’t proven it on the big stage, hopefully if feyenoord win the playoff, they go to the group stages of the champions league, and then we will know how he does on that stage, hopefully feyenoord plays a team like real madrid, or barcelona, maybe manchester united, that would be awesome!

      I remember seeing classie when feyenoord beat ajax, i was so pissed at that dude, but he’s good, he’s the future.

  22. HedonistiX says:

    Semi Off-topic:

    An article from the WSJ about Jogi “nosepicker” Loew, I hope it’s not for subscriber only, I can only paste some excerpts. He really has proven to me that he’s a tactical genius considering he had failed in his previous club coaching jobs prior to being recruited by Klinsi. Was also told by my German friend that Klinsi got all the kudos but it was actually Jogi who is the brain behind the team.

    Strategy-aside, I like the most that he seems to have control over his team, i.e.: benching some “starters” – even after winning – this take some b@lls!

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304782404577486461073328518.html

    One of the things that stands out about Loew is his flexibility and willingness to make tweaks even when things are going well. Take Friday’s quarterfinal with Greece as an excellent example. Germany had rolled through the group stage with three wins in what looked like the toughest group on paper. It was also the only team to have won all three games and had scored the second-most goals in the tournament.

    So what did Loew do?

    He benched three of his front four—Mario Gomez and wingers Thomas Mueller and Lukas Podolski—against the Greeks. That trio, which had started every game until that point, was replaced by veteran striker Miroslav Klose and attacking midfielders Marco Reus and Andreas Schurrle.

    So much for the old coaching mantra of sticking with the guys who got you there.

    “I wanted to freshen up the team a bit,” Loew said. “Plus Marco [Reus] and Andreas [Schurrle] are a bit better at playing between the lines, and they are a bit more creative, and that’s important against a team like Greece, who we knew would be defending deep. For the same reason I thought Miro [Klose’s] movement could be important.”

    The logic was faultless. Podolski and Mueller, mainstays of the team that made the 2010 World Cup semifinals, are at their best when they have space in which to operate. That makes them exceptional counterattackers. Gomez, a big, powerful target man, is prolific but static: He needs someone to get him the ball, and he would’ve been double-teamed by the Greeks.

    • Gio says:

      And for this reason alone, Van Marwijk should resign.

      But the Loew’s are a rare breed, I say 1 in 10 would have done what he did. He has the b*lls to do so. Most managers would not have done that, especially at that stage of the tournament.

  23. Bitterballen says:

    *masters….

    Watch the videos, really cool prospects!

  24. Uitlaatklep says:

    A good plan that lacks proper implementation could just as well have been a bad plan.

    BvM came up with a plan, selected players and was able to make everything work with much success in 2010, but not at all in 2012. Maybe his plan worked based on the quality of the players and chemistry between them in 2010, it surely didn’t in 2012.

    I understand that sometimes things don’t work out as planned either on or off the pitch, but that is exactly when a great coach comes up with creative adjustments to selection and tactics to get the team, the energy, the machine going again.

    If there was only one plan with little or no room for deviation then 2010 was sheer luck and 2012 proof of the tightrope walking act BvM has been performing.

  25. OranjeBoom says:

    Oranje 23:
    Stekelenburg
    Janmaat — Bruma — Douglas — Pieters
    Fer — Strootman
    Sneijder(c)
    Narsingh — Huntelaar — Robben

    Subs: Krul, Vorm, (Gouweleeuw or De Vrij), Viergever, Willems, Schaars, Clasie, Maher, VdV, (Ola John or Elia (new club/regular starter), v. Wolfswinkel, Luuk De Jong

    Robben needs to track back otherwise drop him too and bring in Ola John & Elia (provided he moves to a new club and becomes a regular)

  26. dutch dream says:

    damn Ajax is missing out, Narsingh might go to PSV and now PSV also brought out an offer for Maher from AZ!

  27. Petrovic says:

    And again,PSV goes shopping… Last year it did not bring them as much as they expected.
    I was hoping Ajax would sell Eriksen for good money and buy Maher. I think PSV can use Wijnaldum in that role,it is his favourite position.
    And I am still hoping Narsingh goes to Ajax,because I want to see Depay getting more minutes on the wings for PSV.

  28. dutch dream says:

    I agree that the media played a very dubious role in the aftermath of our defeats in Poland and they are out to kill vMarwijk , but at I do believe some of the rumors we heard are true, and things were not okay in the team.
    Just as in 78, 80 and 90 (so every time after we had some success) we went down because of internal territorial fights, mistrust, egoism and mismanagament. It seems we are unable to handle success.

    Wim Kieft was talking of what hapopened in WC 90 in VI Oranje last week and told there was a famous comedian who had talked himself into the training camp and who was joing the internationals in the training daily ON the pitch and was often on goal, ´very annoying´ said Kieft.

    How can this be?
    This time also things happened which made me wonder if this is the right coach to go on with.
    However I would never post rumors here and present them as facts. If I post something here I will always add name and source.

  29. dutch dream says:

    Not 78 but 76

  30. Niels says:

    I must admit I am a sucker for vi.nl. Not much else to read until the eredivisie and next oranje game.

  31. Eduardo says:

    What said here?

    http://www.vi.nl/nieuws/223461/Kroonjuweel-Maher-hoopt-op-transfer-van-AZ-naar-PSV.htm

    Why PSV has more money than Ajax?

    Ajax is not considering singing Narsing anymore? And Maher?

    If Maher want to improve he should sing for Ajax and play Champions League. The same arguments apply to Narsing.

    I hope that Ajax finally sell Vertonghen, El Hamdaoui, and in my book, Sulejmani, Ebecilio and Eriksen; and with this money, sing Narsing, Maher and Gouweleeuw or Nuytinck (or both)

  32. dutch dream says:

    @eduardo Nothing is sure and its all rumors flying around cos the press has nothing to write. PSV is hoping to sell Toivonen for big cash and then use it to buy maher and narsingh. But its doubtful who will buy toivonen? So they have no money yet to bargain with.
    Ajax wants narsingh but is pennywise these days , its a game, and it expected narsingh will sign for ajax as his family comes from there and he lives there. Az and ajax are regional competitors and AZ does not like to sell players to ajax, so maher coming to ajax seems unlikely. They never put out an offer, because they know az asks double price when ajax knocks on the door.

  33. Verseus says:

    Jan, I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis of Bert’s selection choices. His biggest error was not applying consistent and clear criteria for his squad.

    No wonder Emannuelson is pissed off. And frankly, if I was Narsingh, Kuyt or even Elia, I would be pissed off that a guy like Afellay could walk into the starting lineup despite being unfit and not playing in the previous season. Even Drenthe showed this season that he could have more of an impact than Afellay did.

    As a coach, you have to be clear and certain. If you are going to pick players on form, why did you start Afellay ahead of Narsingh? If you are picking players based on experience, why choose an 18 year old with barely any experience as your starting left back? If you want to select the best players, you have to adjust the formation to suit them. If you would prefer to select a clear formation, then pick the players that will play the roles the best – don’t try and do half of one and half of the other.

    And, why make VDV vice captain if you’re barely going to play him?

  34. Carlos says:

    Jan – I just bought you a BEER !! Proost Buddy you deserve it :). But get your paypal changed to English – much easier to follow !

    • Agragami says:

      how do you pay???

      • Carlos says:

        Go to the bottom of the page on the right – just press donate and pay thru paypal – at the moment in dutch but with an ounce of intelligence u can follow it – and you my friend have kilograms of it !!

        • Carlos says:

          Oh in case you dont have a paypal account click

          “Geen PayPal Rekening” and it will go to credit cards…
          good luck 🙂

          • Agragami says:

            Got it…but seems the site has developed some glitches on right now. For, whenever I open it first the homepage shows older posts till “we are out”. The beer donation doesn’t show up at first instance… was hence confused.

            Only when do I click ‘our home’ page, the latest posts show up as also the beers for Jan.

            One bottle on your way Jan, cheers

  35. Jalepinho says:

    or use google tranlate that works fairly well.

  36. AL says:

    I don’t see Ajax signing Maher if Eriksen stays. Doesn’t really make sense for either player. Getting on board Narsingh and a central defender (assuming Verthongen leaves) makes more sense. For CD, I prefer Gouweleeuw over Nuytinck but I don’t have a problem with any of them.

  37. J. says:

    After seeing clips of both Clasie and Strootman, my bick gets digger every time I think about a starting 11 like this:

    Vorm
    LB-CB-De Jong-RB

    Clasie Strootman
    Robben Sneijder Narsingh

    Hunter

    I choose Vorm because of his great footwork, and ability to build from the back. De Jong has played and could fit in in every defensive role. It could even be the player who will face the most dangerous oposition one.
    I dont know yet how to put Clasie and Stroot. in which part of the pitch, but as far as I could see, Clasie is the most defensive of the two, and he can release fast any lightning winger. So Narsingh and Robben would be his catchers. While Stroot could be involved a bit higher in the pitch, linking play. We suffered a lot from our defensive duo in midfield, they were very static. This above is as dynamic as you can get. I think those three, Sneijder, Clasie and Stroot will have a lot of fun passing tackling and covering for each other.

    And in the end, if Alex is serious about invading Belgium, with Vermaelen, Kompany and Vertonghen, we solve once and for years to come the problems in defense.

  38. Onzie says:

    a simple solution for our fitness problems, we could have learned from the italians, pirlo, and marchismo all have these oxygen masks on,

    we need to make sure amateur erros like that don’t happen. Dutch players need to wear stuff for improving cardio

  39. AL says:

    Another Dutch youngster attracting interest. Wildschut former Ajax player, 20 yrs, now with VVV, targeted by Middlesboro and other teams. But he says he wants to stay in Dutch league with a better club.

  40. AL says:

    De Boer said that Ajax are losing their patience on Narsingh.

  41. SamNY says:

    looks like RvP is done at Arsenal – I think Mr Wenger wants an all-french team playing under him.

    Also, rumors are Afellay will be offloaded by Barca.

    NDJ is heading to Inter-Milan and VDV might be heading back to Hamburg(last one seems highly unlikely though).

  42. SamDC says:

    @SamNY,
    Looks like M. Wenger is ready if RVP decides to leave. He was very quick to complete his signings compared to his usual track record of drawn out and endless negotiations only to be hijacked by other clubs.

    He quickly signed Podolski and Giroud. He got Gervinho, Walcott, Ox-Chamberlain. Bendtner, Arshavin, and Vela are looking for a way out. Chamakh is still at Arsenal. RVP is still there.

    Wenger has a lot of options. RVP could end up at ManCity as they are the only team with a good offer. So far, Barca, Juve, RM etc have been waiting to see what happens.

    Looking at his resume, he has only won 1 FA cup title at Arsenal and a 2nd place finish in the CL. I really don’t see Arsenal winning the PL or the CL trophy next season even with the addition of Podolski and Giroud. The team still hasn’t been able to replace Fabregas. Wilshere needs more time and he’ll be coming back from a major injury. Ramsey just doesn’t have it yet. Arteta likes to play further back in midfield and isn’t an attacking midfielder. Arsenal also needs a real defensive midfield operator. Yann M’Vila was supposed to be the next signing.

    IMHO, RVP needs to leave Arsenal if he wants to win any major domestic or European title. Arsenal is still in rebuilding mode and needs a couple more players before they can truly challenge Man City, Man Utd and a rejuvenated Chelsea team. He will turn 29 this summer and this will be his only chance to win something for a player of his caliber. I know his family is very comfortable in London but a few years in Manchester, Italy or Spain isn’t the end of the world. They have the rest of their lives to live wherever they like. After all, he is a professional. It’s his job to move and seek better opportunities, financially and ambition wise.

    • hurshi says:

      Gervinho and Shamakh are flops, and not sure about Gervinho, but Shamakh is to be off loaded very soon, especially after new signings.
      I believe like new signings were meant to keep RvP at the club – to prove Arsenal wants to fight for trophies. As I’ve read in news RvP demaded new signings. I understand, signings of midfielders and stronger defenders might be more needed for Arsenal, but they have very strong and promising young wingers – Wilshere and Walcott, and Podolski can play on left wing.

      So.. those are my arguments for RvP to stay at Arsenal.
      As for me, it was RvP (and Bergkamp) who made me to love Arsenal. Until then, I would be for any team who had dutch player in the game. Lol.

    • SamNY says:

      I think wenger is happy as long as he plays CL football. As long as arsenal making profit, doubt there will be a change in mentality. arsenal is run like a business and quite successfully so. they will only make purchases as long as they can afford them, they will always buy well established second rate players (such as Chamakh, Gervinho, Bendtner and Arteta) or players with potential (fabregas, nasri, rvp and wilshire)

  43. hurshi says:

    Will it be helpful to deploy all promising youngsters in national team while they are young and have not got too arrogant by club achievements?

    I’m just guessing.

  44. dutch dream says:

    Holy Cow some wonderful play of Portugal!

  45. AL says:

    There’s something wrong with Spain today. Maybe the final I proposed earlier between Germany and Portugal was not so dumb after all 🙂

  46. SamDC says:

    Yes RVP has demanded that Arsenal show ambition. They change their wage structure to attract better players. The gap between the top and bench players was very narrow compared to other teams. Even with this new wage policy, Arsenal needs to get rid of a lot of useless players just eating up salary.

    Arsenal needs another defensive CB. Mertesaker isn’t really that great. There’s no replacement for Sagna. Like I said before, another defensive midfielder.

    Bottomline, Arsenal will definitely be in a better position than last season with the additions of Podolski and Giroud. I just don’t see them as legitimate contenders with out the addition of an attacking midfielder, a defensive midfielder, a backup RB and another CB.

    Maybe they can sell RVP and buy those players.

    If he stays at Arsenal, he’ll retire as a club legend but he won’t have any medals to show for it.

  47. SamDC says:

    Spain needs to bring in Fabregas. He has become the super sub for Spain. He makes a difference whenever he’s on the field. Portugal is really looking like a solid team.

    A lot of you guys were dissing them prior to the tournament.

    Look at Italy. They came in with all the drama and scandals surrounding their team but they were able to reach the semi-finals.

    Sometimes, all that matters is what you do once the tournament starts.

  48. Hien says:

    SamDC, in 1982 and 2006 Italy also experienced scandal (82 involved Paolo Rossi while 2006 match fixing was discovered). Both times they went on to win the WC. If Ronaldo plays well then Portugal has a good chance to upset Spain. Italy also has a decent chance to upset Germany (they did in 2006) so it will not be a surprise if the final is Portugal – Italy instead of the predicted Spain – Germany by many people.

  49. Ignacio says:

    I just read Bert resigned. Is it true?

  50. Bloem Yannick says:

    http://nos.nl/artikel/388859-van-marwijk-stopt-als-bondscoach.html

    Yes guys, Bert just resigned. Didn’t have good informations ?

    Anyways, ”good” news, only if there is a good new manager…

  51. Demi says:

    how can you get any playing time? both sides dive at every opportunity 🙂

  52. Abhirup says:

    BREAKING NEWS:

    Source: onsoranje.nl

    De KNVB en Bert van Marwijk hebben woensdag op initiatief van Van Marwijk besloten het contract van de bondscoach per direct te beëindigen. De overeenkomst tussen bond en bondscoach liep officieel tot en met het EK van 2016.

    De KNVB zal op korte termijn op zoek gaan naar een nieuwe bondscoach.
    The KNVB and Bert van Marwijk have Wednesday on the initiative of Van Marwijk decided to terminate the contract of head coach immediately. The agreement between bond and head coach officially ran up to and including the EK of 2016.

  53. Great news then!

    A new era begins today. Enough time to prepare a wonderful campaign in Brazil.

    Hup Holland Hup!

  54. Abhirup says:

    The last part of the previous post happens to be a “translated” piece of text from BING..lol…The translation is horrible to say the least..

  55. Demi says:

    it’s official about Bert. He resigned.

  56. goldstone says:

    The manager is dead. Long live the manager!

  57. Vincent says:

    ESPN’s commentators just said that they received news that BvM quit. Can anyone confirm that?

  58. Alaa says:

    Yessssssssss:) let us have something new now to talk about:)

  59. Abhirup says:

    Word to word translation..lol…doesn’t make any grammatical sense.. 😛

  60. Paul says:

    Just heard this on ESPN…great news!

  61. SamDC says:

    @Hien,
    That was my point. People are quick to dismiss teams just because they came into the tournament looking weak, distracted, disorganized or on a losing streak.

    Portugal seems solid defensively so far in this game against Spain. They are waiting for their chance to break free on counter-attacks or score from a set piece. Or who knows, they might be playing for a penalty shootout.

    @Ignacio,
    where did you read BVM resigned?

    Koeman has ruled himself out. De boer doesn’t seem interested. I wonder who will take over if he really is fired or resigned.

    BVM already seems to have dismissed VDV, Huntelaar etc…If that’s true, it’ll be hard to lose those players when they still have quality football to contribute.

    I prefer to see that he resigned instead of being fired as we need a new chapter. However, I don’t want a controversial or incapable coach taking over.

  62. dutch dream says:

    great news! Good decision from Bert, it would have been impossible to work for him, nice to see what happens now

  63. Abhirup says:

    I think its official now..The KNVB is yet to release a statement though..Bert has resigned..
    We should thank him for the wonderful memories of WC 2010..He was a good person but not a good tactician..I’d like to thank him with all my heart..RESPECT Bert! Thank you!

    • Mohamed says:

      Well said bro .

      Thanks for the GREAT 2010 memories Bert , especially the Brazil and Uruguay games .
      Bert has repeated the biggest acheivement in the history of the dutch football ” the Wc final ” , However , He also made the biggest disappointment to us this Euro , So i think it’s time for Oranje to make some changes .

      I Hope KNVB gets Hiddink , Rijkard , De haan ,FdB or Adrianse .
      Never Koeman or Louis van gaal PLEASE 😐 .

  64. Bitterballen says:

    briiing on the lucky guuuuus

  65. Paul says:

    @ Abhirup:

    I agree. Thank you Bert for the final, but when the team changed you could not adapt your tactics accordingly, sadly.

    No hard feelings, he is a good guy, just not a great coach.

    Next.

  66. Guillaume vB says:

    Tweet from @backofthenetfft (second degree humour warning):

    “Van Marwijk resigns as Dutch boss appropriately mistiming his final act in the job by doing so when all football fans are distracted.”

  67. SamDC says:

    yes,
    I really thank him for trying something different. Ultimately, he became a one trick pony. Rigid and inflexible.

    Hopefully, his 2010 WC resume lands him a good position. I would like to see him coach in the PL.

    Let’s get the right coach now. The #1 person I don’t want to see appointed is Van Gaal. We just can’t afford another failure to qualify for a WC.

  68. Jeff says:

    Very surprising but it is the best decision as he lost the players. Truly the mature decision to take. I hope we get Guus one last time if he is still motivated.

  69. Bitterballen says:

    i hope this won’t be an excuse to let old useless players stay on!

  70. Hien says:

    SamDC, sadly the same statement did not apply to Oranje. So the search for a new coach begins. We have 2 months. There will be a tremendous pressure on this new coach, most come from this website (more than KNVB or even the media). I wonder if the new coach ever read this website…

  71. AL says:

    Thanks Bert. This was a huge delusion for us but we all know that you are not the only one to blame. However as the coach you have to shoulder big chunk of the responsibility. And this is what you did by honorably resigning. We now hope that the players as well shoulder responsibility, and sacrifice themselves for the team during these two years like never before.

    Thanks for what you did during these years
    Thanks for the great moments we lived during the WC
    Thanks for taking the team to No 1 FIFA ranking by winning a record number of matches.

  72. Bitterballen says:

    Bert van Marwijk has resigned as coach for the Dutch national football team. The Dutch football association and the trainer took the decision on Wednesday evening at Van Marwijk’s initiative. His contract was due to end after the 2016 European Championships.

    The Dutch team were among the favourites to win Euro 2012 in Ukraine and Poland, but were knocked out of the competition in the group phase, after losing all three games against Denmark, Germany and Portugal. After the elimination, Van Marwijk said he “had failed”. He had two evaluation meetings with the KNVB on returning to the Netherlands. The football association called the meetings “open, frank and constructive”. On Wednesday, Van Marwijk decided there was no reason to continue.

    Two years ago, the story was quite different. Van Marwijk took Holland to the final of the World Cup in South Africa and the Dutch were even ranked best team in the world after the Spanish started slipping down the ranks at one point. Van Marwijk helped Holland convincingly secure a place in this year’s European Championships, but the competition ended in disappointment.

    (nc)

    © Radio Netherlands Worldwide

  73. SamDC says:

    Next coach has to win the WC. Simple as that. It’s a tall order. Since BVM already achieved that, it’ll be the next logical step.

    I wouldn’t mind letting Bergkamp take over. He is a smart and cerebral guy. He understands the game. He doesn’t fly so there’s no way he’ll be appointed unless he’s hypnotized or drugged.

    Anyways, BVM did the right thing. He’ll have a special place in the history of Oranje coaches. It’s better for everyone involved to save us another divisive and uncertain campaign that could jeopardize our qualification.

    New coach:

    1. First and foremost has to focus on defense. Heitinga and Mathijsen should be absolutely out. We need fresh boots on the ground.

    2. Give enough playing time to the likes of Wynaldum, Fer, Clasie, Narsingh, Wolfswinkel, Douglas, Maher etc

    3. Hand the captain’s band to Sneijder.

    4. Find a way to play both RVP and Hunter.

    5. Resurrect Elia and make Robben useful again.

    6. Build trust and team morale.

  74. SamDC says:

    Looks like Spain – Portugal is heading to penalty shootouts.

    Portugal really surprised me. They were very organized defensively. Didn’t allow Spain any meaningful chances.

  75. SamDC says:

    Crybaby scared to take a penalty???

    Fabregas is quality

  76. HedonistiX says:

    Bye, bye douchebag (CR7)!

  77. Balkan says:

    Good news today. BvM resignation was the right thing to do. Respect for that. Thanks for the memories. Let’s hope this is a new exciting era for the Dutch NT.
    Portugal is out is another good news. Whoever owns tomorrow wins cup on Sunday.

  78. Bitterballen says:

    Wow, Spain has the opportunity to win 3 cups in 4 years…. remarkable! Imagine that guys, they were tied with Holland before 2008…. and now they will be only 2 less than Germany (if they win).

    wow. Bodes well for Oranje… hopefully we will start in 2014 … Tall order but achievable with our young guns and new Boss!!!!

    Finally, I can smile again. Hup Holland

  79. Mohamed says:

    I’m a big Barca fan , Never liked portugal but the portugese were better than spain actually .
    I think the Germans are going to make it this time .

  80. Onzie says:

    only question now is how’s the next coach?

    • JimmyFH123 says:

      I am hoping it will be Guus Hiddinck, recruits talent then plays to their strength.

      Let`s see? What about you?

      • Onzie says:

        i like gertjan verbeek, He plays 4-3-3, and did well to coach his team.

        I’ve seen huub stevens team schalke all the time, and although they play a 4-4-2,

        they create lots of chances for huntelaar, and play great.

        but my top top top guy i would like to have coach, but i know he won’t, is johan cruyff

  81. dutch dream says:

    what a blessing. I feel great. This is the end of 4 years of negative football. I never want to hear the words defensive block again. Keep my fingers crossed for Co but I think the knvb is too afraid to try him.

    • Bitterballen says:

      dutch dream, what do you mean? it starts in the back! look at today’s semifinal game, defenses were solid…. you need to be solid at the back, i rather see shitty football with good results than good football with shitty results.

  82. Gio says:

    Since WC’10 Holland’s defense has been labelled weak, not just in terms of material but also image wise. I hope that the new manager is able to resolve this problem, if we continue to consider our defense as weak then it already creates a psychological barrier and other teams will exploit that easily. It doesn’t matter if we don’t have the material however we need disciplined players who are able to minimize mistakes. We also need to exploit our strengths, which is our attack, once we resolve our offensive strategy then it doesn’t matter if we have a “weak defense”. Spain doesn’t play with a pure central striker, but they congest the midfield with players who are able to create goals. We should stop complaining about not having world class defenders, but we should immediately change striker/midfielders who are not able to create or make their chances. I think this is the key for the future Holland.

  83. Onzie says:

    de telegraaf listed these names as possible replacements

    Louis van Gaal
    Ruud Gullit
    Guus Hiddink
    Co Adriaanse
    Ronald Koeman
    Frank de Boer
    Gertjan Verbeek
    Frank Rijkaard
    Dick Advocaat
    Foppe de Haan

    • Onzie says:

      Aantal stemmen : 2299
      Louis van Gaal : 21%
      Ruud Gullit : 10%
      Guus Hiddink : 16%
      Co Adriaanse : 7%
      Ronald Koeman : 4%
      Frank de Boer : 6%
      Gertjan Verbeek : 5%
      Frank Rijkaard : 9%
      Dick Advocaat : 2%
      Foppe de Haan : 20%

      people voted louis van gaal, i don’t think thats a good idea,

      and foppe de haan and guus hiddink

      • Gio says:

        I believe people voted more for Van Gaal because of all the politics that has unfolded within the squad and they see VG as the figure that can maybe bring discipline with his particular methods. I’m surprised Rijkaard got very few votes, I know his made two very bad decisions, but common he made Barcelona Champion when the Spanish league was very competitive with the rise of Valencia and Villareal, and not just the usual Madrid – Barcelona.

        • Mohamed says:

          Rijkard is a kind man , he treats the players as an elder brother or a father 😀 .
          It may work with a team of humble players ” Barca ” , not with the current Oranje team with all ego issues in it .

          well , just my thoughts 😛

      • Onzie says:

        the head of knvb bert van ossteen? said he wanted to finish the review by july 6th because he was going on vacation.

        so i’m guessing before july 6th we will see who gets to be the next coach of holland!

        i wish gertjan verbeek was available but he’s not.

        so i’m hoping for magic guus hiddink.

  84. Mohamed says:

    I’m not ready for another WC with no Oranje !!
    plus , Van gaal always had a problem in defense .

    it’s Guus , De haan , Raijkard or FdB .
    However , unfortunatly van gaal is the easiest one to get . he is free and has always wished to coach Oranje again after 2002 flop .

  85. Ed says:

    I’m sad to see Bert go….
    The chances we created if put away by the schmuck RvP we wouldn’t be talking about negative tactics and going home early….
    Denmark would have been 5-1, we would have knocked off the favourites Germany and we would have held off CR and Portugal too…
    Then…who knows?….

    RvPs failure has claimed the coaches head not his own!….

    Stuivenberg please….

    • bob says:

      Your lover boy missed the best chance of the game against denmark and did nothing against portugal and germany.

      Van Persie scored a great goal against the Germans, too man holland had no defenders.

      • Ed says:

        1 goal at EK and WK is not a good enough return for an Oranje striker. THAT is why we failed….the chances were there.
        All he has to do is finish them. He’s an Arsenal great but an Oranje flop….can’t be argued….he has failed the national team.
        Bert has the cajones to resign…so should RvP!

        • Bitterballen says:

          i agree with you Ed! You are right about Bert and unless we have a better replacement who can manage egos and say no to about 5 people in our current starting 11 it’s a bad move….

          • Demi says:

            Bert did the right thing again. Like he did for the last 3 years. He took a generation that otherwise would have been lost and due to the f high heel of Casillas he didn’t win the World Cup.

            Now, he was in a very difficult position. Read this board. Would you stay? Hell no. For sure he has responsibility for the fiasco. But the players do too.

            Question is how the new guy, unless a real heavyweight like Hiddink, will put the primadonnas back to work.

            Bert followed wrong tactics but if our front line was not made of huge egos who needed each one his own football, it wouldn’t be that bad.

            Anyhow, there was no way Bert could stay and he did the right thing. Now, let’s see what happens. Hope Hiddink happens cause almost everything else smells disaster.

    • Mohamed says:

      I respectfully disagree , Ed .
      Well , if V. persie is responsible for not scoring the goals , how about the weak defense ?
      how about the unexplained bad fitness of the players ?
      the issues between the players in the Oranje camp ?

      Three losses in the group stage with bad performance is a very bad sign .
      Bvm shouldn’t take all the blame , so is Persie .

      Both players and Bert are responsible .

      • Mohamed says:

        but i would put more blame on Bert as he didn’t try players in defense , never tried to change the tactics and didn’t respect his own criteria in selecting players ” eg . Afellay as a starter ,Emanueslon not in the squade “

      • Ed says:

        Let’s blame the defense for poor mistakes…..
        Let’s blame the coach for bad tactics….
        BUT
        Never say RvP flopped….
        *sarcasm*
        Cruyff has always said winning is simple….score more goals than your opposition. The attack has a greater responsibility….that’s why they receive the most plaudits….RvP has failed….end of story.
        He finished the chances we win…regardless of defensive woes…

  86. Bitterballen says:

    wow, don’t even think Jan heard this news yet.. he is probably sleeping 🙂

    I will miss Bert a lot, it is very hard to accomplish what he did and I place a lot of blame on the players….

    I would have preferred him over any other coach besides Guus to stay in the position … so it better be Hiddink!!

  87. OhYeah says:

    WHY WAS DICK ADVOCAAT ON THAT LIST???? WHYYY??????

    He is the last person who should be coaching the Netherlands team again. Hell, I would do a better job.

    I think Guardiola would be the best option, but as that is not happening I say Hiddink, all though I’ve got a feeling Van Gaal will get it…

  88. Hien says:

    We thank Bert for 2010 final and move on to the next chapter now as we only have about 2 months. Out of the list posted by Onzie, who is available and who is interested? What is the point voting for someone not interested? If voting for who should coach then I vote JC. He deserves one chance. It is not possible now so who I should vote for? My understanding is Hiddink, Advocaat, Frank De Boer, Koeman, Verbeek, Rijkaard are all under contract. Now if they are interested then it is a different game. Did F De Boer, Verbeek and Koeman said no already? There is no point mentioning Gullit. So we are down to Van Gaal, Adriaanse and Foppe de Haan, right? Jan talked about Adriaanse, and I assume we know about Van Gaal. I recalled Foppe de Haan coach the young Oranje and he is not young anymore. About Van Gaal, is he changed or is he still the same man (does his philosophy change). I have not kept track of what he did after leaving Barca. All I have from him is the wonderful Ajax team of 95, those so so years with Barca, the terrible failure of WC 2002 qualification. What has he done since 2003? We do not have much choice here. I like Frank De Boer but he is not ready. I was hoping that he and Gio and perhaps Cocu together can be the Oranje coaching staff in the future.
    Your thoughts?

    • Ed says:

      Marco had little experience but still did well….
      FdB would also do well…the players would respect him and he’s done well with Ajax.
      Rijkaard laid the foundation for all the Pep worshipping and should get some of the glory. After all he did win the CL…
      His return to Oranje would be welcomed by me….

  89. Hien says:

    This Oranje squad also needs leadership. We had JC, Van Hanegem, Krol, Gullit, Koeman, Rijkaard, Frank De Boer, Cocu, Bergkamp, Van Der Sar, Gio. Is Sneijder ready to take the captain band? Is Van Persie the only club captain in the current squad? I do not think Van Persie can be a good Oranje captain. I think Sneijder is the best candidate.

    • Ed says:

      Wes leads by example….
      His form for club may be patchy but he’s always putting in a star performance for Oranje…even in losing
      Good captain material!

  90. Bitterballen says:

    hien for me Gio is #1 as future coach along with Edwin (Van der war) and Frank de Boer…

    • Demi says:

      let me make a correction 🙂

      Van Marwijk took the Holland job following Euro 2008, and he led an extremely UN-TALENTED Dutch squad all the way to the World Cup Final back in 2010.

  91. OranjeRules says:

    Guus will be too expensive.

    JC won’t take the job.

    Rijkaard doesn’t need the hassle.

    de Boer / Gio / Dennis not ready yet.

    Co is too crazy!

    Koeman said no.

    We’ll end up with Advocaat or van Gaal and end up wishing Bert was back in charge.

    • Demi says:

      >We’ll end up with Advocaat or van Gaal and end up wishing Bert was back in charge.

      just remember what we all said here “Take Kuyt off, Take Kuyt off MAN WTF …… NO NO NO put him back in” 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • Ed says:

        I loved Kuyt in WK2010….
        He was the strongest contributor…..he was everywhere – in defense, in midfield and attack…. Unbelievable work ethic!

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