Dutch eleven lose important game….

Feyenoord’s youth system architect Wim Jansen with inspiration Johan Cruyff

Dutch Eleven? I can hear you think? Did the Dutch team lose?

No, Feyenoord lost. Against Marco van Basten’s Heerenveen. But quite unique, Ronald Koeman fielded 11 Dutch players. Quite a remarkable fact. And when he had to sub Immers and later Martins Indi, two Dutch subs came on. Boetius was subbed by Ivorian Cissee though, so the all-Dutch team got an international character then…

With Graziano Pelle in the team (the first name on the team sheet), this will never be possible, but as the Italian striker was suspended, Louis van Gaal looked on while his 7 internationals took on Heerenveen’s in form side.

Winning was key to remain a title contender, for Feyenoord and like Carlos, Louis van Gaal wants Feyenoord to win it. The National Team coach told Clasie last week: Go and win the title!!

Knowing, that if Feyenoord does win it, CL football is on the cards next season. What better foundation for the Feyenoord Seven, preparing for the World Cup.

Also, most Feyenoord players have stated to stay in Rotterdam if CL football is secured.

Players like Clasie, De Vrij and Janmaat will most certainly be able to sign lucrative deals for next season, but….will they get playing time? If they move to Liverpool, Arsenal or Fiorentina, they might be brought “slowly” by their new coaches, which will cost them their WC spot.

But Feyenoord didn’t win. Heerenveen was better, more aggressive and more hungry. A big mistake by Stefan de Vrij, otherwise very strong with Mathijsen in the central defender spot, secured the 2-0 win for Van Basten’s team. The former team manager of Oranje started very poorly this season. He lost the Heerenveen forwards Assaidi (Liverpool), Dost ( Wolfsburg) and Narsignh (PSV) but his Dost replacement Finnbogasson can’t stop scoring (21 goals for the Icelandic striker), while Djuricic is playing so well this season that Benfica snapped him up.

Van Basten has been able to turn his team around and with great results at home against the Top 5, Heerenveen is now sneaking back into the European football qualifications position of the league.

Feyenoord will have to take a backseat to Ajax and PSV. These two are also not impressing to heavily. PSV in particular, with that tremendous squad, keeps on underwhelming. By now, it is fairly certain that Advocaat will not extend his deal which means Philip Cocu will step up and take the reigns.

Arjen Robben played a key role in Bayern’s massive win over HSV (two goals and two assists in the 9-2 dressing down) but might consider a move (Inter Milan or Galatasaray are reported to make a move) as the ex-Groningen player wants security of a starting spot (for the World Cup, of course).

Wes Sneijder is fit to play with Galatasaray against Real Madrid, while Robin van Persie keeps on leading the line for Man United.

Rumours persist that Christian Eriksen will move to Liverpool this summer and Ajax will sign super talent Adam Maher to replace him.

Feyenoord may not win it this season, but they surely look bright.

Another club that seems to fly high thanks to Johan Cruyff’s insights. It is no secret that once Wim Jansen (former 1974 midfielder and Feyenoord icon) started to meddle with the youth system (with his son in law Stanley Brard), based on Johan Cruyff’s philosophy: 4-3-3 as the system and individual trainings plans for the players.

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  1. PSV has two games against Ajax and AZ, so hopefully they will drop points. If PSV beats ajax and then lose to AZ then feyenoord will be first!!
    I love how every one on this blog is rooting for feyenoord now;)

    1. I like Feyenoord – but – Ajax all the way!

      Ajax 1st Place
      Feyenoord 2nd Place

      That would be OK too – (right Jan)



  2. This is a reality check: If our core team can’t prevail against Heerenveen during a title race in the Eredivisie, what are we really expecting during a run for the World Cup?

    Wow. What happened?

  3. It’s true. If Feyenoord can’t be an upstart team like Heerenveen. I mean, nice team but not GREAT.

    If you play CL, you need to face the likes of PSG, Inter, Man City and Werder. To name a few. Then there is a level up even: Barca, Real, Man U, Bayern, AC Milan….

    Anyway… A work in progress. Still love to watch Clasie, Janmaat and De Vrij and co. European top soon.

  4. I don’t know where all this pro-Feyenoord crowd is ocming from but frankly it is quite annoying. Ajax has provided the bulk of the Dutch team for almost 30 years and I don’t really recall anyone talking about it. And in any case, the Dutch team has always done better when it was not dominated by one team. Only trophy to date in 1988 was a good mix of clubs. So please stop with the annoying Feyenoord support. Especially because Ajax plays by far the best football in Holland. Ask any of the Eredivisie coaches and they will confirm it. Our Feyenoord/Holland defensive line was pretty mediocre tonight and frankly Heerenveen could have won by more goals. Without Pelle, Feyenoord is not a real threatening team and there is very little creativity in midfield.
    I am all for us bloggers to remain loyal to our team and of course would expect the Feyenoord fans to support their team, but please avoid jumping on the bandwagon. As I said in a previous post, this Feyenoord team is far from the Ajax of 1995.

    1. You make a lot of sense for an Ajax fan ;). I agree though.

      To refer to the “Feyenoord Seven” is absurd, seeing as only 3 are starters. Everyone thinks its great that so many Feyenoord players are in Oranje, but I see no greater reason for concern. Janmaat gives 2 good crosses and suddenly he’s the best RB we’ve ever had.

      Oranje’s defensive core has let in more goals than Marcelo & Derijck for god’s sake. We should be very concerned.

    2. Sorry you’re annoyed by the Feyenoord support, Jeff. 😉

      By default, as an American who likes Dutch football, I’m an Ajax supporter.

      But it’s different this season. Feyenoord is more Dutch than Ajax, esp. on the NT. They’ve been doing a better job for a while, it seems, with their youth system. Most importantly, a few months ago, we were in a state of high anxiety about our back line… but the Feyenoord boys have really stepped up.

      I’d love for them to get CL experience. So I’m rooting for Feyenoord at the moment. Didn’t mean to be “annoying” to Ajax fans. 😉

    3. Hi Jeff… you know I am biased :-). I’m a Feyenoord man and have been writing a LOT about Ajax over the last 6 years. And rightfully so. As a Feyenoord fan I am unique as I have a lot of sympathy and connections with Ajax too.

      I think Ajax have received their fair share of support on this blog.

      At the same time, Ajax youth dev system is not doing too well (ask JC) and the Danes are running the show in Amsterdam. Feyenoord played with an all Dutch team!! That is unique AND awesome, don’t you think?

    4. quote: “Without Pelle, Feyenoord is not a real threatening team and there is very little creativity in midfield.”

      Can I extend that thought by saying that Clasie is probably a bit overrated on this blog? For me, the following players still have to prove their worth to me for the national team (that seem to have already automatic starting spots in some of the line-ups that I’ve read here in recent weeks/months, or some of the players that vGaal has already chosen as starters it seems):

      Clasie (because you were talking about him anyway)
      de Vrij (because somehow I find it no coincidence reading here about his mistake against a simple eredivisie team like Heerenveen)
      Blind (because Ajax hasn’t done much either in the Champions League)

      For me as long as no dutch clubs can make it out of the Champions League group stage against some decent opponents the players regularly talked about and/or used in the Dutch national team are all unproven until they do something impressive when playing for the national team against reasonably tough opponents like the following players have done (in other words, they proved their worth to me):

      Martens Indi

      Affelay falls somewhere in between those lists of names for me (still a bit unsure about him, he needs to be at his best if he wants to play in my national team line-up).

      Assuming hunting season was opening again just before Hunter got injured and will continue when he comes back from injury (or at least before the WC starts), my line-up for the world cup that I’m thinking about right now would be something like this (with question marks for the spots I’m unsure about):

      *********vPersie****** (these 2 working in a similar way as Rooney/vPersie at Manchester)

      Robben**Sneijder**VDV**Lens (4 on midfield with the 2 wingers more advanced, viewing Lens as a winger, Narsingh may be another option, Elia for the leftwing is still in my mind as well, I know he can do it, I don’t know anyone else, perhaps Lens, Affelay or VDV again, but I’m not sure)

      ? (I am starting to warm up to Blind with his performance against Romania) – ? (the same could be said for de Vrij) – Martens Indi – Janmaat/vd Wiel (based on what I’ve last seen from vdWiel for Oranje which is too long ago to be sure of what he’s doing now at Paris S.G.)

      ******?*********(vGaal is switching keepers too much for me to see which is good enough, weird actually cause you would think the opposite but I didn’t get to see Stekel for example against Italy, I thought Krul didn’t look too good there with the goal, he ducked almost under the ball, had he stayed a little longer on his feet like Vermeer did against Romania, it might have been enough to block the shot, I’ve seen Vermeer do horrible things with his kick/build-up, playing it straight into the feet of the opponent two games in a row almost I think, or perhaps they were in a row, before 2012 I think).

      That formation above is the 4-4-2 high-risk offensive formation that I’d probably like to start with against defensive teams as well (but the concept is when you really need goals, usually if you’re behind).

      For me Strootman would come in first to steady up the midfield and secure a possible lead against more defensive minded teams (think Denmark, Slovakia).

      Who to drop from that formation would then depend on performance in the game and requirements (what is needed where, is the Hunter/vPersie combo working, do we need more width, etc.). No idea if I would risk starting with it against teams like Argentina, Spain or Germany though, who to me look the most dangerous offensively (allthough Spain needs an in-form Villa or a fit Iniësta for a steady supply of goals).

      I like the different tactics that vGaal uses as well, allthough I’m not sure about some of the players that he has chosen but I can understand the limitation in terms of quality available right now. With eredivisie teams doing so badly in Europe or at the top of international football, like in the Champions League amongst the players that will also be at the WC playing for forementioned 3 countries. Don’t count out the Brazilian weather and therefore Brazil or any other good team that likes playing in the heat either. Like Mexico, they might make it very far. They only barely lost to Uruguay in 2010 and basicly were the ones to knock out France with a 2-0 victory. They had too much fear/respect for Maradonna’s Argentina probably, which didn’t make the Germans very nervous in the game right after it. Probably because of Maradonna’s strange line-up and call-up decisions, so Mexico might be overlooked because of that (Germany beats an Argentina that was playing much worse against them then when they were playing against Mexico, that idea). I think they’ll make it far which makes them a possible competitor (someone we might have to face if we want to win the cup).

    5. Oh and I can add, in that team, Hunter would be the one that scores the winning goal in the final that wins the Cup for his country just like he did it when I first saw him play and do it for the youth team (with that coolheaded long distance 1 on 1 lob over the keeper as if the game/moment was no more special than your average 1 on 1 chance in a league game).

      Don’t ask me when that was but it’s pretty much the only youth team match I ever watched (completely). It was a final in the EC for youth I think, might even be the WC for youth.

  5. i am still not sold on our defense.. janmaat is an attack-minded defender but seems to allow space on the counter.. i am very curious to see how we will fare against big opponents…

    Will Nigel earn his starting spot on the NT when he returns from injury?

    Will Clasie be a starter?

    What are your thoughts?

    1. Will Nigel earn his starting spot on the NT when he returns from injury?
      Ans;-Bit confused,will have a hardtime has to compete with Deguzman-Stroot-Clasie-Leroy fer at least.

      Will Clasie be a starter?
      Yes very soon..the lad is one step above others.its just a matter of time….

  6. I think Feyenoord should pay more attention to the fight for 3rd spot against Vitesse than anything else. Psv lost points against Roda. If Ajax win they have a very thin cushion. The title’s gonna go Psv or Ajax in my opinion, these two teams create so much chances in each game, whereas Feyenoord has to score in every opportunity they get to fight for the top. I see that scenario rather difficult. Be careful of Vitesse: Bony, Janssen, Van Ginkel is quite a combo!

    1. I consider Vitesse a bigger contender than Feyenoord. They have the best defence in the Eredivisie, the best striker, and have good balance in the midfield. If Vitesse had 2 actual wingers they would already be champions.

      1. What is the different in 3rd and 4th place??

        @ primo. With which statictics u talk like this?? PSC score 30 goal more than Vittese ajax score more and also feyenoors is just to goal low from them this season and also PSV, Ajax and twente have better defence line than Vitesse.

        1. Faraz,

          I actually like to watch the games, instead of referring to statistics. Soccer isn’t baseball, and statistics don’t really say anything unless they are dissected.

          I think few will disagree that Bony is the best striker, if not player in the Eredivisie.

          I am a massive PSV fan, but to suggest that PSV has a better defence than Vitesse is a laughable notion, regardless of how many goals conceded. Defending is done as a team, but championships are won from the back. It seems Marcel Brands has yet to learn this after 3 years of making the same mistakes.

          Ajax and PSV (and to a lesser extent, Feyenoord) all play in a way that attempts to disguise the fragility of their back lines:

          Ajax defends by keeping posession, at the expense of creating less chances. If they aren’t clinical on a day, they generally don’t win.

          PSV defends by scoring 3+ goals in a game. If that doesn’t happen, they don’t win.

          Feyenoord defends by pelting balls forwards from their defence because they know that Pelle will probably win the resulting encounter. No other title-contender has that option, but if Feyenoord is unable to do this for whatever reason (injury, suspension, or just half-decent marking- a rarity in the Eredivisie) they have the greatest difficulty moving the ball from line to line, and players such as Janmaat and De Vrij start showing cracks.

          1. One could argue that FC Twente have the best defence, but that would be too easy considering they seem completely unencumbered by any obligation to play reasonably attractive football.

          2. Primo, surely we can not accept if one of dutch fan come here and say Vitesse is best in Eredevise, they r really good but i think just statictics show every thing, if u see 28 game of Vitesse and also 28 game of PSV and all 28 game of Feyenoord and also 28 game of Twente and maybe Herneveen ,and u think vitesse is better defence and attack by PSV, Ajax, i think it is not PSV or Ajax problem i think it is ur vision problem. i’m a Feyenoord fan not PSV, but i think every time always every league choose best defensive and attacking line by statictics they don’t invite people to choose best defensive line, statictics show us every thing, u think vitesse has better , i think …. as better, every body can think a team is better, it is no important for noone, this is just our opinion nothing else, but statictics is every thing in football. teams choose coach by statictics they choose player by statictics, people want win not best defense which got goals more than 4 or 5 other teams. i think Vitesse fan in dutch know, there r many teams in eredivise has better defensive and atttacking line.

  7. I totally agree with you Primo. It is not the support as I explained but the blind support. Again I would agree with everyone if Feyenoord was on top of world football but we are far from that. Again in pure football terms, Ajax plays the best football. No question there. It is a Dutch team for God’s sake even if it has Danish players.

  8. And don’t forget Ajax plays a classic Ajax/Dutch style thanks to de Boer. And there are also great young players already established such as Blind and Van Rhijn (sorry but I like him way more than Janmaat because of his pace), Vermeer of course (although at 27 not so young anymore); emerging ones like Denswil and Hoesen (impressive with the u21 and again today); returning ones like Babel who is extremely dangerous and could be a contender for a return to the national team and even Boerrigter once he knows how to adjust his boots! I mean Boerrigter should have had 3 goals today. In addition, there are loads of players from the youth. DRB300 can attest to that.

    1. no argument that ajax has been the backbone of dutch n.t over the years, but as a long time ajax fan, i am increasingly frustrated that ajax are doing so poorly these days to supply talents to the dutch n.t.

      in the current setup, i don’t see any ajax player who can make his case to be in the starting line-up. vermeer is a decent goalie, but he is no better than krul or vorm. van rhijn is technically sound, but janmaat is much more suited to the adventurous style of van gaal’s football. blind is a stop-gap solution until jetro willems back in form. siem de jong, don’t kid yourself. babel and boerrigter, been there, done that. they are now down in the pecking order with the likes of rising lens, ola john, and even boetius.

      of course there are a lot of dutch youngsters in the pipeline. this is all “in theory”, i might add. none of these so-called talents make any impacts in the ajax senior team. denswil has a whopping 3 (three, that’s right, no typos here!) appearances in all competitions these season. compared that to the likes of de vrij and martins indi who anchor feyenoord’s defense week in and week out. it’s heart-breaking that the brightest of ajax academy these years are all foreigners… alderweireld, eriksen, fischer, and soon andersen. i wish they give more chances to the boccaras or hoesens of the world.

  9. I watch Ajax every week and I notice that Ajax is always in a mess around 65′-80′. No idea how it happens. Not sure if anyone feels the same. Against lesser teams they are still able to stand firm. But, for instance, Vitesse was able to score 3 goals in this timespan and won the game. AZ almost did it. NEC also found a goal today.
    I think it is quite a thing for FDB to fix.

  10. Ron Vlaar

    The most assured of Villa’s backline on the day. He made some important blocks and interceptions, most notably against Suarez, but he often showed a lack of concentration on the ball and some of his passing was a bit alarming.

    Daniel Agger

    Carragher had his hands full with Benteke, meaning Agger generally had to keep Weimann under control, and he did just that, ensuring that the Austrian posed little threat when around the area.

  11. Faraz, frankly my friend, you are getting on my nerves. If you care so much about these 2 teams go on their websites and join their cheering sections! What does PSV have that Ajax does not have? More Dutch players? A better playing style? What Faraz, tell me. This is getting ridiculous.
    @bleed_oranje, sorry that you feel this way, but Ajax has 4 internationals at the moment, 2 who start regularly whereas Feyenoord has 3 that start regularly so please here too give me a break. Did you see Feyenoord play really eye watering football this season? I don’t think so. Were it not for Pelle, they would be mid-table. Babel could easily come back if he continues to play the way he has been. Ajax did very well in the CL despite being in the toughest group ever (no argument there). We tried to play our football not like when Jol was the coach. I was worried then when he was the coach but not any more. The philosophy is clearly that of Cruijf and VG in terms of forming players. The reason why Densil has not played more is because of Alderwerld and Mosiander but he will be ready when one of those guys leaves. I disagree with you about blind and VR. Willems is not good defensively and Blind is better. As for Janmaat I already said that he is too slow. anyway I am done having to justify Ajax to all the doubters. We don’t need you to support Ajax.

    1. @ Jeff
      i don’t like PSV always, i was Ajax fan till last year for more than 1 years, but i like PSV and Feyenoord more than them for now. ajax is not depend on their dutch player i think it is just 1%, Blind and Vermeer is not Important for Ajax and Dutch, none of them, Vermeer is just tested, and surely Krul and Steks and Vorm is better with more experience, Blind is in my vision really normal player, i cannot see anything bright in him, in romania game, if pieters and Krul back and we ignore family relations, i see Ajax is not part of our 2014 team, they r good but good just for future of Denmark, Sweden and other countries,
      Look at Feyernood, if we havenot feyenoord, why we come here and leave comment, i think the differet of dutch with denmark, Turkey, Serbia, France and other mid coutry is Feyenoord, Janmaat is really important for us, Clasie is important. De virj and Martin Indi are also show their importance for our country. Vilhena show he is our future, i don’t say feyenoord do everything well (as they show us this week their youth system is nothing especial) but they try to make new hollands.
      PSV depend on players like Lens, Strootman and Narsingh. this is more beautiful to no important dutch player like ajax.
      i don’t start a war between teams players, ajax show us they r sucks more than 4 years, they win every thing and lost and humilated every year to Madrid 4-0. but obviously they r our best team. our best non-dutch team. i cannot look at ajax like a dutch team, they go to be a another international team.

      just answer this
      u thins Ajax is really important for 2014 World cup. i think if we havenot ajax for next 2 or 3 years. there is raeally not changed in Dutch football.
      as 15 years Ajax fan i have to say Ajax REALLY SUCKS.

        1. So you jump ship when Ajax starts playing the best football it has played in the last decade? Ajax won two titles in a row, beat Man U in England, won and drew against Man C across two legs, and now they’re on the verge of a potential third title. Ajax “really sucks”? I’m fine with people criticizing Ajax, but to show this type of disrespect?

          You were never an Ajax fan. Enjoy the ride on the next bandwagon.

          1. it is realy no important if u beat Man U when they don’t play for winning Uefa Cup. however their team (who was beat by Benfica (Portugal second team) and Basel (u wat to know from where they come) eliminate u easily:D.)
            i said before ajax is our best team it is obviously they beat feyenoord and PSV by three goals this season it show us ajax is one class above PSV and Feyenoord still, why u show me history i know what ajax do better than u, don’t worry about that:). i just talk about ajax have’t any next dutch star player, maybe they come back to make dutch player in 4 or 5 years, i talk about now, u undrestand. plz first undrestand topic then click reply and answer me;)
            wish u best

      1. “PSV depend on players like Lens, Strootman and Narsingh”

        PSV didn’t develop any of those players, or pretty much any of the players they rely on for that matter. All those players would be just as well off if PSV hadn’t grossly inflated the Dutch market value with their ridiculous bids for these and other players. Narsingh’s big season was with Heerenveen, and Strootman was called up when he was at Utrecht. Lens is an Ajax/AZ product.

        PSV overspends for ready made Dutch players that would be just as well off without PSV, and forces out their academy players in the process. Ajax is now getting the best players for the lowest price regardless of nationality. This results in more success which leads to more money, which gets invested back into youth scouting and development. The Denswils and the Boccaras will get their chances with the first team when they are ready.
        A team’s value to the NT should be measured by the players they produce, not who they’re willing to fork out the money to buy.

        1. just listen to me for a second
          i like our frist team buy our top players and they can playing with eath otehr,
          look at bundesliga, bundesliga is now better from dutch to make younger player, Dortmuund, Schalke, Leverkozen their do that every year, but bayern Munichen always buy all players, and they play to each otehr, also with big other guys from another country, they grow and feel bigger football theat their feel in schalke leverkozen and …. . i just think PSV can be our first team in future, our Bayern Munichen, i really don’t want to see ajax every year win title and their sold all their players,

          i think if one year PSV buy many players and they win title, it would be the best happeing for dutch league, then other poor team like ajax and feyenoord (poor means not rich like PSV) would grow their academy like what dortmund do in last years. if ajax win title with thses danish kids and every yeatr their sold them and win in again, why they have to keep players or growing their academy?? just 4 goals of madrid?? no they don’t think about that night.

          1. That doesn’t make sense…. Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Muller, Lahm, Alaba.. They all come from Bayern’s youth.

    2. ajax doesn’t need no justification. the rich history and the name in and itself speaks for itself. ajax is, and will be, a special team in my heart (and in a lot of others’). but part of the love is being critical when things are not well. the point that i am trying to make is that ajax has been doing such a shitty job developing future dutch players as of late. it becomes very visible these days when when the mighty oranje is undergoing regeneration. mediocre players like blind and boerrigter are heaven and earth compared to the generations of 94/95.

      after sneijder, no other dutch players are becoming a household name. instead ajax-trained foreigners are taking the headlines. oranje used to be synonymous with ajax, but i am afraid it will no longer soon, unless something radical changes with the way the club is run.

      1. i wnat to say that, but ajax fan think “An ajax fan is always an ajax fan” if i support feyenoord and critis ajax, it just coz my concern about ajax and dutch future, i hope feyenoord can show ajax, they can be big without danish player.

  12. i don’t belive one people can say ajax has 2 important player for Dutch team :)))) i really don’t see Vermeer and Blind as a serious option. 😀

    1. You can say the same thing about PSV and Feyenoord. Beyond Clasie and maybe de Vrij, Feyenoord doesn’t have any real Oranje quality players either. BMI is a good stopgap for LCB, but I see him being replaced before his peak. Janmaat is no where near a solid RB, and is also riding on the fact that we’re short on decent RBs. He could easily get replaced by van Rhijn before 2014, and even VDW could regain form and get ahead of him. Vilhena wont be at WC14, and after that we’ll see how he measures up against the other players who come up from the academies around the country in the next three years. You can put him and Boetius in the “speculation” catagory. In 2014 the wingers will be Robben, Lens, John, and Narsingh.

      And all PSV’s “important” players were bought so I’m not going to even bother talking about them.

    1. ok ,tnx my frind jeff. i’m an ex-ajax fan and i really hope ajax can make a big player after Sneijder go from their team, it is more than 8 years but i still hopefull about ajax :).

  13. This argument is really stupid, who cares the team where the player plays, the important thing is our NT, that’s all. Obviously we support more Feyenoord now BUT Ajax have a lot of young players that are very important to us too. Klassen, Hoessen, Denswill, Ligeon, Van Rhijn, etc.
    Besides lets not forget Wes, Vaart, Steks and a lot moore where ajax player!!

    1. Also if Eriksen leaves and Maher go to Ajax then what, suddenly ajax is important or not? Because Maher is are future number 10, no question in that matter

      1. yes u r right, it is just about time, surely i would be ajax fan next year, if they have good players like Maher:) and so all this arguments sucks:) 😉

  14. @blee_oramje, you know very well it takes time to bring up the youth through the ranks. The plan was just put in place a year ago, don’t forget that. I agree as Ajax fans we can and should be critical but I strongly believe in De Boer and the stepwise approach he is taking. First get the team to play the old Ajax style again. He has done so (even if as Faraz says we lose to Real 4-0, we lose by playing our game and the last 2 matches were much closer than the scores indicated). Look at the number of chances we create in any given game. It is astounding. Second, we had to start from scratch building the youth academy. But don’t forget that in the current team, 10 of 11 starters are from the academy (as all the foreign pundits noticed). When de Boer took over the academy has lots of foreign players but not anymore. The A1 and B1 are practically if not all Dutch. Finally don’t forget that it is Koeman when he was the coach of Ajax who brought in so many foreigners. Then I was upset because we would buy such players and they made lose our identity. MArco did the same by buying Sulemani who is frankly a joke. At that time, I was very critical of Ajax but not any more.
    What is PSV doing? They don’t have a single player from their youth except from time to time Locadia or Depay. Willems and Pieters have been big disappointments this season. Both Strootman and Lens are not from there. SO really the only club taht is forming Dutch youth other than Ajax is Feyenoord. As a die hard Ajax fan, I given tons of credit for this but it is also (let’s not forget) forced on them because of financial issues. But yes kudos to Feyenoord for having produced lots of great promising youngsters but they have not done anything yet…

  15. Gabriel I agree with you. I did not start that argument. Others suddenly started going crazy for Feyenoord and PSV because they were more Dutch. I frankly found that to be grotesque and stupid. That’s all. I am like you and don’t care where the players come from as long as they are good for Oranje.

    1. Agreed Jeff, dont worry Ajax time will come too for the NT. I really enjoy the way klassen plays, he is very similar to RVP and Dennis Bergkamp!!

  16. Well , i like how Jeff is a die-hard ajax fan 😀 .
    No one actually can argue that Oranje used to have the majority of the team from ajax . I can say at least 10 players from Ajax used to be a part from the 23 players in every Oranje squad .
    As an Ajax fan myself , i’m not happy with Ajax policy . Netherlands have the best talents in the world , why would you get talents from Denmark or Sweden ?
    I have no problem with extraordinary talents “e.g. Erikssen , zlatan , surez , …etc” , but sana ?
    Also i think the quality of the ajax talents is not the same as before . can we compare siem de jong with Bergkamp ? Sneijder ?or Vdv ?
    Babel with Kluivert ? Anita with Davids ?

    Meanwhile as Oranje fan , i’m happy for feynoord . They have been suffering for many seasons financially and from being far from the top of the table , now they have excellent dutch talents almost in every spot .
    I do wish the best for them . Perhaps they are not the best team in the world as Jeff said , but they have the best dutch players atm , so as a dutch fan i’ll support them in Europe . I hope they can play in the CL and go far , and i do hope Ajax returnes soon to the top with a new generation of ” Dutch ” players .

    1. quote: “I have no problem with extraordinary talents “e.g. Erikssen , zlatan , surez , …etc” , but sana ?”

      I would have a problem with you naming Erikssen in the same example list as Zlatan and Suarez (well, if I cared that is). Now it just makes me grin (a ‘grinnik’ actually in my language, which is slightly more than a grin, chuckle perhaps?).

      Really, what has Erikssen done that is even COMPARABLE to Zlatan and Suarez? Topscorer in eredivisie couple of times in a row? nope. Getting Ajax further into the Champions League? nope. At least when Suarez was still at Ajax I thought they had a small chance to get further (Zlatan was even better and in a better functioning Ajax at the time). Litmanen was the best, period (when talking about foreign players at Ajax somewhat recently/last success, but Zlatan may have been part of something good if he had been a bit less trouble a bit earlier perhaps, I believe they call it more mature).

      With Suarez I just hoped they might make a QF or something, never saw Suarez as one to help win Ajax a final at such a level of competition (biting, punching and handballing comes to mind now, try youtube for those searchterms in connection with Suarez, plenty of videos to see).

      1. “Really, what has Erikssen done that is even COMPARABLE to Zlatan and Suarez? Topscorer in eredivisie couple of times in a row? nope”

        Eriksen is a CAM not a target man.

        1. Suarez was playing on the wing most of the time, Zlatan was playing CF, the comparison was not about position but about quality, that’s why I included defenders in my reply as well.

          I only named the question about topscorer not because I’m expecting Erikssen to become topscorer in the Eredivisie as a CAM (allthough that wouldn’t be unheard of) but I was looking for examples of something of note that Erikssen might have accomplished (I assumed the answer was a nope, someone might prove me wrong, maybe he was topscorer in Denmark and they could try that as an example of some kind of accomplishment, top-assists perhaps?). But really, in Erikssen’s case his stats don’t seem to work in his favor I think anyway, so perhaps there is something else to prove his quality cause the games I’ve seen him play in the Champions League, the REAL IMPORTANT ones, he sucks and they don’t work in defence of his inclusion in that list of Zlatan and Suarez either.

          When writing that question I already expected your argument about CAM (which was another reason for me to include a defender in my example, I guess the message still didn’t get through, I didn’t want to spell it out, perhaps I should be more clear in the future). In other words, not becoming topscorer in the eredivisie just because he’s playing CAM doesn’t work as an excuse for zero accomplishments of note either (Champions League, EC, WC, maybe European League, but would have to be against a team in the top 4 leagues or towards the latter stages, QF and up maybe, depends on who it is of course, what kind of defence, and the games themselves, cause this judgement/opinion would have to include multiple games at that level of competition).

        2. Or I could say it differently yet again and say that Erikssen has done nothing worthy of my attention or commentary (yet still talking about him…).

          When thinking about good Scandanavian players Zlatan and Litmanen are the first that spring to mind. But even someone like Pukki might be a better player than Erikssen and was worthy of my attention last year (or 2011) when we had to play Finland for a qualifier and I felt the need to mention him as the player we needed to watch out for on the old blog site. Luckily he didn’t do to us what he did to Spain recently. 🙂 That’s why he came back to my attention again, quite funny (and his name making me remember a favorite german tv-show long ago).

          Erikssen would have to do something similar in a big match to be even worried about him as a competitor (I wasn’t worried about Erikssen in 2012 against Denmark, I was worried about cracking that defence with vMarwijk unwillingness to start with the Hunter/vPersie combo which finally produced it’s first goal against Germany when vMarwijk finally caved under pressure and had to put them both on with vPersie scoring while Hunter was keeping defenders busy in the penalty box allowing vPersie to do his thing in midfield/CAM where he is even better).

          Too little too late, morale already broken, still producing a goal. There you go. If you still can’t see it, you’re as blind as Blind.

    2. So what I did there was adjust your example list by replacing Erikssen with Litmanen, cause Erikssen really shouldn’t be named in that list, he doesn’t even come close (even though you might have just wanted to use his name because it’s more recent and people are more familiar with it, him being the current noticable/popular foreign player at Ajax, note that I’m not admitting here he is the current best foreign player, cause if I thought about it and watched more Ajax games, I could probably come up with a better one, Vertonghen perhaps? still at Ajax? I know Vermaelen moved to Arsenal and is better than Erikssen).

      I thought I needed to point out that I wasn’t making an argument against Zlatan and Suarez because of my rant about missed opportunities (in the Champions League concerning Ajax).

    3. oh, one more thing about Erikssen since I also said something earlier in the comment section of this article (as a reply) about Affelay, I think they’re both at about the same level, in between those 2 lists I mentioned. On top of that they are actually quite similar in style and execution (of chances/spaces/decisions). I refer to the most negative side of their game as ‘thank you’s’ for the other teams keepers (and their whole team getting possession of the ball back). That’s a reference to their long distance attempts mostly (but sometimes even up closer when missing the target or hitting a ball straight at the keeper or within his range). An example on how to do it right from that position would be both VDV’s goals that we just saw. If you miss those, it’s often a ‘thank you’ for the other side (a relief from pressure). Affelay and Erikssen try those as well, and miss them way more often (shoot them in range of the keeper for an easy catch and some confidence boost for that keeper as well as well as less fear for the opponent’s defenders ‘oh, is that all they can do?’…’thank you, we’ll take it from here and show you how it’s done’, that last one will happen against more gutsy opponents, like Turks even when thinking about our current qualifying run, but definitely teams like Germany, Spain and Argentina which I named in that reply).

  17. Mohamed, how many current Feyenoord players are of the caliber of previous great Feyenoord players, like Van Hooijdonk, VP, Gio etc? Seriously, please tell me because I don’t think De Vrij, Clasie or Janmaat are going to cut it. But really I have had it with this debate. Let me cheer my Ajax. At least we play football.

    1. Jeff i cannot undrestand u, u really like Ajax, not Dutch team. why u answer what me, Gabriel, Bleed Orange, Mohammad, u cannot see Feyenoord adherent? we just say Feyenoord look bright, and u attack all of us? if u think ajax is brighter, it is ok, no problem. yes surely Van Rijn is bigger than Janmaat, and they r many dutch player ajax have and they r better than Janmaat, BMI and de Virj, sorry we were stupid and didn’t see thaat.

  18. @Jeff : In my humble opinion i think janmaat can be like Gio one day . Gregory van der Weil was better in his beginings though , so you never know 🙂 .
    de vilhena can become a great player. his style is very similer to Edgar Davids . same with clasie , he can be a great player for Oranje imo .

    anyway , i think all the pro-feynoord crowd “as you said” were very happy when Ajax won against man city in the CL. they were all Ajax fans .
    believe me my friend it’s not about feynoord , it’s just about Oranje 😉 .

  19. I think what Jeff is saying is that while Feyenood as a team should be supported in the short term (because of their individual dutch players: Vilhena, Clasie, and co) the style of Feyenoord is not one that the dutch national team should mimic, but that of Ajax.

    He is trying to say that Ajax play the best style of play in the world only behind Barcelona, and as a result each and every player is adept at ball retention and passing ability. So, if Ajax continue this way, Oranje will soon be dominated by Ajax players once again.

    Our team is growing leaps and bounds at the moment, and if we continue this way, Holland will be in good shape because we will be able to play this possession based style of play in Oranje. Of course our recent best players have been foreign, but this recent development is only temporary. Our teams in general have been more dutch in the past few years, but the real stars have been foreign. Where as, a few years ago our teams were more foreign, but our stars were Sneijder, VdV, Huntelaar. The dutch players will eventually become our best again.

    Also PSV’s dutch players were all bought, none were developed. Narsingh, Lens, Strootman… What’s so impressive about buying good dutch talent?

    So, Faraz and a few others, what you guys are basically saying is that you will support Ajax again if we buy Maher, Van Ginkel, and co? If that’s the case then you don’t understand football.

    What’s important for the future of dutch football is that Ajax have finally begun to play the style of old, and more recently the style of football that has dominated world football implemented by Barcelona. And if Ajax is playing this style and winning the Eredivisie year in and year out, then soon other teams will copy, and soon every dutch player will be schooled in this style of play, and hopefully we will be able to reproduce the success of Spain using this brand of football. And, if every team adopts this style, then we Oranje will be able to use talents from every team across the Eredivisie regardless of in which youth system they were developed in.

    Apologies for the long rant…

    1. U R Right Mark, i would accept 90% of ur posts.

      i copy my opinion here, u see what i mean better now.

      i like our frist team buy our top players and they can playing with eath otehr,
      look at bundesliga, bundesliga is now better from dutch to make younger player, Dortmuund, Schalke, Leverkozen their do that every year, but bayern Munichen always buy all players, and they play to each otehr, also with big other guys from another country, they grow and feel bigger football theat their feel in schalke leverkozen and …. . i just think PSV can be our first team in future, our Bayern Munichen, i really don’t want to see ajax every year win title and their sold all their players,

      i think if one year PSV buy many players and they win title, it would be the best happeing for dutch league, then other poor team like ajax and feyenoord (poor means not rich like PSV) would grow their academy like what dortmund do in last years. if ajax win title with thses danish kids and every yeatr their sold them and win in again, why they have to keep players or growing their academy?? just 4 goals of madrid?? no they don’t think about that night.

      this is just my opinion my friend, maybe ajax can win every thing with their young talents, in few years, i would be happy if it happened, why not? the most important thing for me is Dutch, i like ajax and feyenoord b’coz of dutch.
      i hope one day we win every thing in europe and world:).

    2. jeff plz 1 minute.

      Jeff u r my firnd, i really like ur opinion and i think u r right,
      excuse me if i say something if it bother u. i don’t want to say that, i was concern about ajax future if i say something critise about ajax, nothing else, surely u know better than me and have better opinion, i see ajax just in news and sometimes here, as a iranian fan i don’t know many things about fottball, u see my country just reach World cup 3 times, i talk about football emotinal, i want u undrestand me. sorry if i bother u:), i want to be friend with u , it is more important for me;).

      just one thing to say is, if someone don’t know anything about football, it is realy derespect if we say “u know little”, and “U R not ajax fan” it didn’t about me and jeff or tiju and king, i just say it is not beautiful if we talk to someone like this. it is not my business if someone is an ajax fan or PSV or …., we come here to read other opinion,

      just be more patient my firends, it is always better we just talk about our opinion and talk about opinion against us with respect, i don’t do it before i know;) i know but i want to do it after this.

      also sorry jan if i say something wrong in my comments in this post which bother ur blog 🙂

      hope one day netherlands win everything and we just talk about our winning awards here:)

  20. Finally very well said Marc. I totally agree with you. You were able to express precisely what I wanted to say.

    Jan, of course I know that. You have covered Ajax plenty of times and I think you are exactly the reverse of me sort of speak in terms of support (Feyenoord for you, Ajax for me; but recognizing the other team’s contributions to Dutch football). I too support Feyenoord when they play in Europe and I am also really glad they are back in contention.

    It is not that I don’t like Feyenoord but I don’t understand that people are not recognizing that Ajax’s success is the most important for the national team, not individual players. I am talking about the style of play not players. Eventually if Ajax succeeds, the national team succeeds as well because that is the STYLE we want for Oranje. I think we could all agree on that.

  21. I understand people following Feyenoord because they want our prospects like Clasie and Vilhena to do well, but no one who was a real fan of Ajax or PSV before would want Feyenoord to win the title simply because of these players. Feyenoord isn’t this angelic team that plays their prospects because they’re concerned about their future and value to the NT. They play their prospects because they have no choice since there’s no money to buy other players.

    there is absolutely nothing that suggests that Feyenoord winning the title and playing CL would be good for the Oranje prospects. Last summer when they had a little spending money for the first time, they went and bought an over the hill Mathijsen, Immers, and a foreign striker. And for the record, I’m not against Feyenoord getting Pelle (good use of money), but I imagine all the people mad at Ajax for having Danes should be against Feyenoord having Pelle. Yet for some reason I never hear anything about it from them.

    I also find it funny how people complain about Ajax buying foreigners while PSV buys Dutch players. The fact is Ajax has barely spent any money on foreigners in recent years. Moisander is the only one, and they got him because all the Dutch CBs were WAY overpriced and he’s an Ajax academy product. Sana cost 300k, Schone was free, Poulsen was free, and other foreign players came in at the academy level as top talents and cheap. These are the moves that if more Dutch teams would do, maybe less of them would be in financial trouble. Ajax is holding onto their money in the transfer market, and this will allow them to spend more on their youth as opposed to PSV who spends all their money and more on ready made players and completely neglects their youth products

  22. jeff plz 1 minute.

    Jeff u r my firnd, i really like ur opinion and i think u r right,
    excuse me if i say something if it bother u. i don’t want to say that, i was concern about ajax future if i say something critise about ajax, nothing else, surely u know better than me and have better opinion, i see ajax just in news and sometimes here, as a iranian fan i don’t know many things about fottball, u see my country just reach World cup 3 times, i talk about football emotinal, i want u undrestand me. sorry if i bother u:), i want to be friend with u , it is more important for me;).

    just one thing to say is, if someone don’t know anything about football, it is realy derespect if we say “u know little”, and “U R not ajax fan” it didn’t about me and jeff or tiju and king, i just say it is not beautiful if we talk to someone like this. it is not my business if someone is an ajax fan or PSV or …., we come here to read other opinion,

    just be more patient my firends, it is always better we just talk about our opinion and talk about opinion against us with respect, i don’t do it before i know;) i know but i want to do it after this.

    also sorry jan if i say something wrong in my comments in this post which bother ur blog

    hope one day netherlands win everything and we just talk about our winning awards here:)

    1. @Faraz ,Jeff is diehard fan of Ajax.his love towards Ajax is very deep,he is a very cool man.i think he was bit frustrated at your comment.i really understand Jeff as a bleeding fan.
      @Jeff …everyone has their opinion,i know that u were not happy with some comments.Faraz is nice man i owe thanks to him for his all support,he wants dutch Nt to do well.thats the reason he said like that.Many in this blog know very little including me.Please dont use any of these words tom guys like Faraz and co.Who are showing their frustraion on teams not on bloggers here.
      My opinion and my prediction is
      i would love to see feynoord to win this year title.Because of their contribution to national team.But they lack something So they wont win it, belive me,which i cannot explain and i am not able to.(psychology of Feynoord players).PSV will be punished for sins of Advocate,they had a good team.Vitsee blown it away in Januvary.
      My prediction.
      So The team who beat Champion of EPL and got draw with Dortumund and City in England WILL BECOME THE CHAMPION OF EREDIVISE due to charismatic Franc De boer and his leadership.

  23. I love the part where Psv will be punished for Advocaat’s sins lol, I also think (and hope) Ajax will win it in the end. And 3 in a row would be a milestone for a newly appointed coach.

  24. And speaking about Ajax, am I the only one that thinks Eriksen leaving is a blessing. Eriksen is a hyped up ballet dancer. At 21 years old he’s too young to leave and at this stage in his development he will be a benchwarmer anywhere he goes. I really don’t think he’s very good.

    A strong Eredivisie needs Feyenoord in the top three or two even. Its nice to see a Vitesee do well but without foreign investment, they would suck balls real bad.

    1. @Jason…No he is talent,he is not over hyped like naymer or others.He will be a starter in Liverpool if he goes there..he could even start in MANU,AC milan kind of teams.But i doubt that with bigmoney spending clubs like Chelsea,Real,Barca,Mancity etc

  25. barcelona line up “shock” move for michel vorm, he was already on the radar, and i think he’s the best dutch keeper and should be playing instead of vermeer, well actually i think krul is the best shot stopper but his passing needs work, vorm

    the thing about rivalries is that it’s not a hate hate relationship but rather a love-hate relationship, you need your rivals to be doing good. can you imagine feyenoord losing it’s place in the eredivisie, sure ajax fans might laugh and be happy, but after a while you want to play them, and you want them to be good so you can enjoy great games. Rivalries make national teams strong.

  26. I am not surprised to know Barcelona wants vorm!! Did u see his last rating? “143
    Michel Vorm
    Prevented Tottenham from running away with the match with a number of solid stops and played well despite being beaten twice. Could do nothing for Bale’s vicious drive and was beaten by a cute finish from Vertonghen. Incredibly comfortable with the ball at his feet.”
    Do u notice the last sentence ? Incredibly comfortable with the ball at his feet!! Barca and total football teams like Ajax and orange need a gk to be the last defender and vorm seems to be a good choice based on his ratings! He knows how to play the ball not like krul!! I like him more than krul honestly!

  27. Vorm and Vermeer are both the top goal keepers right now. I have inside sources on that one from the dutch national team GK coach (Frans Hoek) who is a close friend of my best friend in San Francisco. All Dutch and Ajax connection from more than 30 years ago. According to my friend, the coaching staff will choose the GK depending on the opponent. They consider Vermeer the best shot stopper and best with his feet. Vorm a close second.

  28. when it comes to the GK position we are very well covered!! we have 4 good ones and with different qualities, I hope we get to the same level with the defensive line because honestly I am still worried about the back four, I have a feeling that if they get tested by a high caliber team they wont be as efficient as they look, I hope I am wrong!

  29. Arsenal to splash €80m on Bundesliga trio

    Arsenal are set to make an €80 million bid for Dortmund duo Robert Lewandowski and Mario Gotze and Leverkusen midfielder Lars Bender.

    is today 1 April (aPRIL fool’s day??) :)) what they talking about?? Arsenal??

  30. As much as I am an Ajax fan, with multiple jerseys and tattoos to prove it, I’m still a huge fan of what Feyenoord is contributing to the national team. I think that having de Vrij, Janmaat and Martins Indi playing in the same club team will be great for our national team. The reason Oranje is never as cohesive is because our players play in 11 different clubs normally, so when we field a team with 7 Feyenoord players it is good for our national team’s future. Obviously they won’t stay together their whole career, but as it stands with two 21 year old CB’s, I think having familiar faces around them is exactly what they need, and as much as Ajax players Dutch football they only started 5 dutch players this weekend, only 2 of which have starting spots in van Gaal’s team. So as much as Daley Blind plays “Dutch Football”, it he’s the only one of the National Team doing it, he’s not going to be contributing much to the team.

    1. Interesting list…

      The top twenty Vergoossen : 1. Jordy Clasie (Feyenoord) 2. Adam Maher (AZ) 3. Marco van Ginkel (Vitesse) 4. Stefan de Vrij (Feyenoord ) 5. Ola John (Benfica) 6. Ricardo van Rhijn (Ajax) 7. Bruno Martins Indi (Feyenoord) 8. Virgil van Dijk (FC Groningen) 9. Jean-Paul Boëtius (Feyenoord) 10. Jeffrey Gouweleeuw (SC Heerenveen) 11. Jürgen Locadia (PSV) 12. Jeffrey Bruma (Hamburg SV) 13. Tonny Vilhena (Feyenoord) 14. Luc Castaignos (FC Twente) 15. Joël Veltman (Ajax) 16. Leandro Bacuna (FC Groningen) 17. Jetro Willems ( PSV) 18. Anouar Kali (FC Utrecht) 19. Guus Hupperts (Roda JC) 20. Depay Memphis (PSV)

      Lees verder: http://www.soccernews.nl/news/191869/Vergoossen_vindt_Maher_niet_grootste_talent:_%22Clasie_speelt_volwassener%22#ixzz2PJDVbLGl

  31. Can I ask what everyone thinks about Depay ? Because everytime someone says we won’t have a player like robben for ages , I see Depay and I just think he is similar in style to Ronaldo . Not to sensationalise him but Depay can basically do everything, he is quick, strong , skilful and he can nail a shot. Even though psv isn’t a place to be if you are a youth player, I honestly think he can be big for us in the future unlike all the stopgap players we have eg lens, narsingh, schaken…..

    1. Steen …Depay has to work with advocate,so i doubt unless mertens and others doesnt do well,his chances are slim .,depay is bit unlucky….and some says he also interested in Rap,tattoos,hair styles etc.he needs a real guide and mentor..He is a top talent…but???wait and see..

    2. @steen i was not a fan of lens.but belive me this guy is special.when he is there goals will come either from his boot or team mates boot.He has good link up with persie.
      See the stat
      For Netherlands
      Name——-Toatlgames– goals
      for PSV
      I am not counting asists ,It all effectiveness…Lenz is pretty effective than many……..

        1. Basically Both play as wingers in National team and PSV.Lenz is pretty determind and strong,he stays in wing and has clean eagle eye for goal and mates.he pop ups at right times.While Afellay starts as winger and the dribbles in to mid and end up like playmaker.that is the difference.i was pointing that we can benefit lot from lenz than expected.

          1. I really like Lens, he really got some genius. Irregular player, but the contrary of Huntelaar, he scores almost against every strong opponent he plays against. Always scores against Ajax, scored against Arsenal with AZ, against Benfica with PSV, against Italy with the selection.

            He is one of our weapon for 2014.

  32. Jeff : Unless to reform everything, Ajax is on the bad way. Being dissmissed by :

    Copenhagen,Slavia Praha,Dinamo Zagreb, Marseille, the worst team of Juventus ever, Spartak Moscow and Steaua Bucarest in 6 years, it’s absolutly shameful for the dutch football.

    PSV and Twente didn’t do much better, especially this year, but I always had the impression they fighted more. In six games against Real (3 against the substitutes team), Ajax scored only two goals and took 20, what the fuck is that ? You talk that they created some chances, but have you seen how easy it is for Real to score ? In three passes, a simple counter attack, they can score at every moment. Guys like Benzema or Kaka who are criticize all the year always wait for the games against Ajax to score with bycicle kicks and so on…Seems like they’re playing a friendly turnament in Qatar or something like that, not a champions league game.

    You would probably talk about Manchester City games, I agree that the first one was the best Ajax european game since a while, but don’t forget that against City, three of 4 goals were scored on corners and free kicks, as always. Seems like the solution can only come from a heading of Alderweireld, Moisander or S.De Jong.

    I don’t believe Feyenoord is stronger than Ajax, but for sure Clasie would play a game against Real with more passion than Eriksen.

    1. No but honestly, seems like you put too much hopes on Ajax and De Boer. The two last titles were won thanks to no concurrence, PSV and Twente lost too many points against little teams, Ajax finished with 70/75 points or something like that, Twente of 2010 won with 85.

      Don’t know what you expect for coming year, Eriksen, Babel, Alderweireld, maybe S.De Jong will leave, Ajax will bring free guys or guys like Sana who cost 350 000e just in order to spend nothing…I’m pretty sure PSV will win the Maher’s battle just like it was with Narsingh, and De Boer will say that Ajax doesn’t need to buy anyone as Andersen is the new Eriksen.
      And so on, and so on, and so on.

      Ajax is just like Arsenal, every year the same scenario, and every year people keep hoping.

  33. I got curious about whether Hunter was losing effectiveness for Oranje as well in the recent season (or I compared 2 seasons basicly for these numbers).

    Results (and I did vPersie as well just to compare that as well):

    Hunter 2011/12 = 106 minutes per goal (5 goals)
    Hunter 2012/13 = 138 minutes per goal (4 goals, only missing one, too bad he couldn’t get it against Andorra or Romania because of his injury)

    Average over 2 seasons = 120 minutes per goal

    vPersie’s magic number = 123 for the first season, 106 for last just like Hunter’s first season, average for him is 113.

    All these numbers include the 4 goals vPersie scored against San Marino of the 6 he scored that season as well as the 2 (out of 5 that season) Hunter scored in that same game where they FINALLY started together! Pussy coaches. Go all-in dammit! Let’s see if vGaal has the guts for it.

    All very close (his average would drop perhaps if you go back further whereas Hunter’s would rise a bit bringing them even closer together).

  34. Here Laurent, this is a gift for you. Sorry it is in Dutch but you can google translate.
    That you are incapable of seeing the difference in playing style between the Ajax of deBoer and the previous Ajax teams is quite astonishing. Maybe you should go to the Parc des Princes and enjoy PSG’s playing style. They are very impressive!! Now that is a team loaded with talent and a team I have no doubt you would be very proud supporting. Go and report back to the blog. I can’t wait. Meanwhile, I will remain loyal to why I love football ie the possession, movement, creativity, technique, speed and skills that have made Ajax a legend. The results will come; believe me.

  35. Maak geen zorgen hoor, ik kan ook nederlands, ik ben pas 22 maar volg ajax sinds 8 jaaren ofzo, erken graag dat ze de best spelstijl hebben, maar net als Arsenal, het gaat nergens.

    Well I think I made some mistakes lol, the point is that I agree Ajax got the best “basic” in dutch football, best creativity to go forward, but as long as they’ll stay with their stupid philosophy to replace leaving players with free or unknown young scandinavian players instead of spending some millions on good players, it will never reach anything.

    And I don’t talk about spending 16mo for a young serbian like Sulejmani, but just to spend some millions on guys like Strootman, Narsingh,Mertens etc like PSV did last years. Believe me, when PSV will bring better defenders than Derijck or Marcelo (they try every year to test some new ones, like with Zanka), they’ll be better than Ajax.

    You know, this debate just looks like the one I used to read some years ago, Arsenal fans against Manchester city fans, Arsenal fans saying to manchester ones that the money they spend on players is useless as Arsenal gets better results, and what now ? Manchester City is a way better than Arsenal.

    Every one in the dutch football, even some ajax personnalities, agreed to say that PSV got more good players than Ajax, Ajax is still better this year, but I doubt they’ll still be in one year or two.

    1. Ajax should get out of the Arena. They rent the stadium, it’s not owned by them. For the future it is important for Dutch clubs with ambition to own their stadium. Then to develop all kinds of services in it. That’s where the big financial step can be made. Eredivisie belongs to the losers of international football. That means that TV money will trail behind EPL and others more and more. I believe EPL clubs get 20/25 million Euro extra with their new deal and it will only snowball faster and faster the future. The new Eredivisie deal with Fox is peanuts compared with that. We can start to discuss how unfair it is and feel bad about it, but things are what they are. Better to focus on what can be done. The only real big step up is owning the stadium and use it for a whole range of things. A place to arrange marriages. Get casino’s and shops in it. Schools renting space in it. Everything. That already happens, but not by the club itself. Now Ajax needs to get all that money. Same goes for Feyenoord (who are on their way to build a new stadium). Fc Twente is the big example in this. With the new Euro set up, individual city’s can make bids for every event. Ajax should build a stadium to beat all other offers and go for finals. Really making their stadium a cash cow. Marketing is also an area to improve on, but I think stadium revenue is a very important first step.

      The economic times are bad, especially in the building sector. That means they can probably negotiate a good construction price right now. Not a bad time to make construction company’s make their bidding’s.

      About the spending of money. Overmars never said they won’t spend big. Actually Ajax is prepared to spend really big. I often feel that their vision is misunderstood. How I understand it to be, is that they have raised the level for what they deem worthy to spend big on. Under this level they think they should be able to solve it with their own academy. I mean at one point Ajax had players like Atouba on the payroll for over a million. That’s insane. These kind of players should should be poured out by the academy by the dozens. If they spend big, then the new guy must be really special.

      On top of that is Ajax working with pretty big contracts one age category below other teams are focusing on. They scout the special kids at 15 or 16 year old and offer them quite some money. More than PSV I think. Bazoer did not only come over for to have a bigger chance making the first team. They spend quite some money on winger Cerny recently. Under the radar Ajax has quite some muscle building up.

      Also, all those teams play the same system as the first team like Frank wants them to play. That means at one point they will come in rolling into the first team. Ajax this season had the highest lower limit of all Eredivisie teams. Van Marwijk recently said again how Ajax always have their system to fall back on. This will only become stringer ones the new philosophy is ingrained deeper and deeper into the club. It is with that system, they were able to beat City for example and draw them away. It was not the result that impressed me in the game at home, but the way they dominated most of the match. If that system is avle to beat the City names, then why could they not beat the PSV names?

      On top of this, there is this Barca connection that really starts to flourish. There where always story’s about this happening, but in end there was no result. Cuenca maybe got injured again, but that was a serious talent coming over for the first time. Now the Ajax talent Klaassen is going to Barca for treatment. If this is getting hands and feet, then Ajax also have access to one of Europe’s biggest talent factory’s. The big advantage for Ajax (apart from pure quality) is that they don’t have to buy and be tied to a player for 4 years that takes the place of an academy player for so long or gets on the bench being expensive, ones that talent is able to push through. So the Barca talent coming from Secunda Division gets the first spot for a year, with in it’s shadow an Ajax academy player. When the talent is ready to take over after a year, the loan is over and he can step up. If used in a smart way, there are very cool constructions possible. Especially if Ajax become first and play CL. Then maybe a player like Deulofeu could come over as he would like to play CL games and show his ability to the world. After Cuenca, that became only more real.

      PSV are no City. They don’t have deep pockets to just spend their way to the top. They miss out on CL money year after year, while Ajax is collecting big pay checks. PSV only bought Narsingh last summer and a Swede recently in the winter. Only 2 transfers. Before that indeed more, but people forget that they also sold Afellay and others. Many are just replacements. Many players are at the end of their Eredivisie career also. Lens, Mertens, maybe Strootman, Hutch. If those players go at the end of the season, it’s hard to predict what will happen. What if Advocaat goes and Cocu comes in as the new coach? Is Cocu such a talent like de Boer? I was not impressed with Cocu’s short spell and he was played off the park by Frank in the game they met. I think there is quite a difference between City/Arsenal and PSV/Ajax. There are important nuances to consider to turn this into a spending vs not spending discussion. Apart from the ones I gave, there is just the absolute money figure we are talking about. Clubs can compensate for tenths of millions, but not for hundreds of millions anymore. That is what City has been doing. Eredivisie operates with far smaller absolute numbers and within that bandwidth a lot is possible with creativity.


      1. DRB300, thank you, thank you for this outstanding review. I obviously agree with you 150%. You stated precisely what I have been thinking and trie dto articulate on this blog. Very well done.
        By the way, I will be in Amsterdam for the Ajax-Hereenveen game April 19 if anyone wants to get together.

        1. DRB300 nicely done as always. Ajax is a public company so if they want their own stadium, its gotta go through alot of people, tons of paperwork, meaningless meetings, and all that bureaucratic garbage. ajax needs some serious investors who knows football and make them private first before we can talk about making all these wonderful changes….

      2. I agree with some points, but talking about last summer, Ajax went to Poulsen when PSV went to Van Bommel, it’s already a difference. PSV tried Zanka who was considered as a good talent in Denmark, I don’t get why Advocaat doesn’t really like him, the few I saw him playing as central back, he did better than Derijck.

        Ajax replaced Vertonghen with Moisander, not a bad defender, but one class under, and older. Ajax sold Ozbiliz barely one million, and brought Sana, Ozbiliz has already scored 9 goals in Russia, Sana brought nothing to Ajax. That’s the point I wanna come to, everytime Ajax sells a player, they bring someone who is X2 less good. You’d say it was impossible for Ajax to bring someone as good as Vertonghen, I agree, but they could try to spend more for someone younger than Moisander. They always wanna spend as less as possible. They didn’t want to spend one million more to get Narsingh who always seduced Ajax and was a new international, it’s crazy.
        Even Twente spends more, every time they sold a player these last years, they spent to take something good, would Ajax spend 7,8mo for Tadic ? No. However Tadic is one class above Boerrigter, Sana, Lukoki or whoever of them who played with Ajax in champion’s league.

        I’m comparing PSV with City in the way they tried to spend millions these last two years on players with some reputation but sure it has nothing to see in absolute, PSV rent money from the municipality, they’re far to be economically healthy.

        You’re talking about coming summer, indeed, PSV will lose Lens, Toivonen, Hutchinson, and maybe Strootman, Ajax will lose Eriksen, Alderweireld, Babel and maybe S.De Jong. Twente will lose Douglas,Fer,Rosales probably Tadic, we’ll see how all those players will be replaced.

        1. Honestly, I am not sure van Bommel has done so much better than Poulsen this season. I have seen comments from Ajax fans on several games claiming Poulsen was one of the best on the day. That’s quite an achievement considering he does not fit the Ajax system. Ajax wanted some experience and got that without having to pay any big money. If they had gone for the transfer price you suggest they put on the table, then what will happen to Boccara? Sporkslede? Serero? If Boilesen is completely healthy next season, maybe Blind could fill in the DM role as well? That’s 4 players.

          Loan deals and free transfers with short contracts take away the financial mouse trap that has always prevented to let the youth push through. The endless circle is that a bought player will lose transfer value when sitting on the bench. Dutch teams spending big money on players do that with (bigger) resell value in mind. This resell value is very important for clubs continuity and is an extra argument to not give youth a chance they might deserve based on quality. If the talent is as good or almost as good as the bought player, then the club is inclined to choose for the bought player, simply because the financial reality dictates this. Besides that, there are the other normal forces at work like trainers often choosing for safety and by that experience (a bought player for big money will simply have done well at another club and by default have played more games on a professional level than an academy player) and coaches selecting the players that came in under his spell as often they are his purchases. This is ego at work. Coach looks a bit stupid to say “yes” to a player for 5 million and then putting him on the bench. Loans on 1 year contracts for free transfer players take this all away. They are short (often 1 year), have no investments attached to them and are pretty ego free (a coach is not really tied to a player). The loan deals are a very important component of choosing for the academy. I would almost say, it’s the crucial component, as it gives true freedom for the management to put academy players into the first team.

          However the free transfer market is just not very sexy. There are not that many gems to find and many of them who are interesting, probably like to make a last big sum of money in the Qatar’s of this world, instead going to Eredivisie. Taking everything into consideration, Poulsen was quite nice to have for Ajax this season. Schöne was also on a free, but got a long contract. Not bad. Great utility player to have. The loan deals from Barca could become pretty sexy though. I think Cuenca is open to another year of he does not get any playing time at Barca. Maybe another top kid like to join him? What if defenders at their academy hear they can work with Jaap Stam (just signed 3 year deal)? What if attackers hear they can work with Bergkamp? What if they hear they can play CL? I bet we will see some more in the future if things keep going like this.

          Moisander was also a smart choice. First of all, he is ex Ajax and the whole idea of coming back to the Ajax family is an appealing one if a club wants to focus on their “own” players. Second, he can play on RCB and LCB position. So when Alderweireld is sold at the end of this season, then he can move to the RCB position and Denswil (big talent) could play on his natural LCB position. Or if Denswil is not stepping up (Vertonghen himself went on a loan to RKC at a certain moment, mind you), Veltman on the RCB position and Moisander stays at LCB. Either way, it was a pretty good idea to take him after that Barca kid got injured. Moisander was bought, after another loan deal with Barca defender became impossible.

          I think it’s a great achievement what Ajax is doing. They are changing the whole way the club is operating and at the same time winning silverware. How many times do you hear a coach claiming that the club and team is going through a process and that the fans need to be patient before seeing the results? Frank does not. He wins and changes the club at the same time. It’s Ajax who have become champs the last two seasons, not PSV or the others. Before that, Ajax had not become champs in like 7 years. That was crisis, now there is calmness around and in the club. As for the concern that Ajax is slipping as a result of not replacing sold players with proper quality, in what games this season was the opponent better than Ajax pure on field play? Where was Ajax dominated or outplayed in the football department? Not talking about results. You will have a hard time getting to 3 games, Bert van Marwijk said even 0 IIRC. I think they know what they are doing and let’s just see how this turns out. I mean they already have won 2 titles. Would it not be pretty amazing if they win another this season? That’s not slipping, that is building towards an hegemony.


  36. Considering that Frank de Boer has been complicated finding a good right wing (he has tried Sana, Lukoki, Boerrigther, Cuenca and even Shöne) I think he will try to change Babel into a right wing.

    Considering that the right wing is the weak place on the NT (we only have two players for this spot: Lens, Narsinhg) don´t you think that Babel will do his best effort to become on a great Right Wing, and fight for a spot on the NT for the next WC?

    Do you think he has some chance?

        1. Are you on medication?
          Babel is by ALL accounts the single worst player in history to wear that famous Oranje shirt.
          I have never seen such a startling lack of talent in another first team player. NEVER!
          Do you attend games like I do? If you went regularly you would not make comments such as “Babel can be really great”. You would see he is possibly the laziest, clumsiest, most brainless ass-clown ever to wander aimlessly around a football pitch.
          I shuffle from side to side with embarrassment everytime he touches the ball.
          I truly fear for my team everytime someone passes the ball to him.
          He has no picture in his head. No forethought. No plan. No vision. Utterly ignorant.

          Could you provide some evidence of this “super talent”?
          I have attended well over 100 matches featuring Ryan backward-ankles Babel, and I have never seen anything beyond depressing mediocrity. He is honestly the luckiest man alive to be playing the game at a professional level.

          1. Why always talking about cleverness ? He is a winger, is Walcott cleverer ? No. Is Walcott a useless player ? Definitly not, how many times he saved Arsenal with individual brainless actions while clever players like Arteta were completly invisible ?

            Babel is a good winger, got speed, power,powerful shot, improved his vision and passes, defends more than before, what more do you want ?we’re not talking about Denneboom.

  37. Primo, I think some people are happy for the great work feyenoord are doing developing players, and some people think that will be nice for the NT that these players obtain first level experience playing the next CL, and the reason is simple: Clasie, De Vrij, Janmat and BM Indi will be crucial players for the next WC. But that no means that Feyenoord are the best team, or play the best football in Eredivisie.

    I really think that will be great if Feyenoord play the next CL, even I am a huge Ajax´s fan.

    Also, I am very exiting with this new Ajax´s project with Fran de Boer, Bergkamp, Jonk, Overmars, Van der Sar and now Stam, under Cruyff tutelage.

    I really hated Martin Jol when he said “there are boys against men” against Real Madrid. I was so pissed of that I want Martil Jol renounce. At the middle of the season Martil Jol left Ajax and Frank de Boer won the league playing Dutch football without Martil Jol best players: Suarez and Emanuelson.

    But I know this new project need time to develop players from de Academy that is a long time project. But 2 leagues in a row (a certainly 3) is a wonderful star.

  38. Ajax wants Van Ginkel to sub Siem De Jong and Maher to sub Eriksen

    pdate Vitesse-middenvelder Marco van Ginkel staat op de schaduwlijst van Ajax. De 20-jarige neo-international, die in Arnhem nog tot 2015 onder contract staat, komt in beeld als aanvoerder Siem de Jong komende zomer vertrekt.

    Dat meldt Voetbal International.

    De schaduwlijst van Ajax is een lijst met spelers die direct in aanmerking komen als een van de belangrijke spelers vertrekt. Ook AZ-talent Adam Maher staat daarop. Hij komt in aanmerking in in Amsterdam als spelmaker Christian Eriksen vertrekt.


    1. There are always rumors like that with Ajax.

      Now, Van Ginkel has a contract which runs till 2015, he said he doesn’t need to leave Vitesse, how much would ask Vitesse to let him ? 7mo at least I think, I would be surprised if Ajax offers such an amount. Since Sulejmani and Cvitanich (2008), they never paid more than 5mo for a player.

      AZ asked 10 for Maher, only PSV was negociating this winter.

    1. ‘He is a striker, not a winger!’
      He’s neither.
      He’s not even a footballer.
      Just curious. Do you attend games, or are you speaking from a few YouTube highlights vids?
      I only ask because if you DID attend games (which you do not), you would be under no illusion whatsoever. His work off the ball, believe it or not, is even worse than his work on it. I have never seen such a lack of intelligence in a modern player.
      He finds no space. He does not understand the concept of pass and move. He does not stand on his toes. He is never prepared. He has no plan. He has no map in his head. Worse still, he refuses to look up. His idea of a pass is to hit the ball into and area and hope blindly that someone will run onto it – which 70% of the time they do not.
      Sure he has a modicum of football skill. So do I. I can keep the ball off the ground for 10 minutes and I can run 100m in 10.5 seconds. So can you, probably. Doesn’t mean either of are fit to wear the famous red and white, or the famous Oranje.
      I truly wonder in amazement everytime someone extols the virtues of Ryan Babel – because there is never any evidence to back it up. Just empty words and meaningless opinion.
      Could you provide us with something to show why you think he is a striker?
      Maybe some shot conversion stats? Accuracy stats? Or goals per minute played as striker? Anything?
      Because in my experience I have seen nothing from him to suggest he is even aware of the game he’s playing in.
      Not having a pop at you. I would just like to be converted to your thinking and need some help getting there 🙂

      1. haha rolf..loving ur babel rants…mainly coz i agree 100 % with u…however dont u think shittier players have played for
        holland?? romano Denneboom lololol barry opdam, kevin bobson lolol…henk TIMMER anyone?/????

      2. @Rolf….Babel was good till 2008 if i memory is right.he was spoiled at liverpool.had lots of attributes to become a footballer.i think he lacked determination and planning than intelligence.i always remmber our beloved finnister’s commnet on Babel.He was always against babel for some sensible reasons.
        Finally babel faught some fight and he was doing comparitively better in his second stint with Ajax.For orange most of the time he played as sub,dint get much chance as starter.Was ok in national team at least.he formed an effective partnership with Righters for U21 and won the tournament,i never blamed him coz he had an unselfish heart and he put his team first always.that was remarkable.He is a loss for orange.thats what i feel.A talent wasted due to the absnce of proper guide at right growing time…

  39. I think De boer should use S.de jong as a striker . he will be eredivisie top scorer i bet .
    van ginkel and Maher in the midfeild and it will be wonderful if we can get a good DMF , kyle ebicilio on loan ?

    in the defence , i think we should get bruma . he will learn a lot from Frank . may become the best defender in Eredivisie .

    and to get money i think we should sell some players like boerrigter , sana and lukoki .

    1. S.de jong has been tried as a striker and he wasnt that prolific. Van ginkel and maher would be great but dont agree with Ebicilio on loan. Hopefully Boccara will step up next season and prove his worth.

      I dont agree with selling Sana and lukoki as they are still young and have alot of potential given the right guidance.

  40. sell swedish sana…keep dutch players! and let lucas andersen shine in the absence of eriksen…kick out poulsen let schone become the mainstay;….get kasper schemichael in goal…he is a gem!

  41. Someone said about relatively limited option in NT right wings, is boetius originally right winger? It will be useful for NT if he plays there in weekly basis together with janmaat. Wijnaldum apparently plays RW in u21 too. About babel, I say schaken is better option than him.

    1. “Someone said about relatively limited option in NT right wings, is boetius originally right winger?”

      Yes I did.

      My comment was about Frank de Boer has been looking for a good right wing since he arrived and he hasn´t founded yet.

      Look this list: Lorenzo Ebecilio, Ozbilyz, Lukoki, Sana, Boerrigther, Cuenca, and even a MD as Shone.

      And the last season Ajax didn´t want to pay for Narsingh!

      So, considering this lack of RW, and the last Ajax’s game, for me is logic that Frank de Boer wants to try to play with Babel as RW. And Babel can take this chance to find a place in the NT because we lack of good RW.

      NT RW:

      Lens= not a natural wing, but he is very good
      Narsingh= natural RW
      Kuyt= getting older, not a natural wing
      Ola John= is LW
      Eljero Elia= is LW, also, not a great level this moment
      Boetius= use to play as LW even he is right footer

      1. Ola John is two footed and has been playing on the right in some Benfica games. I think he can be our top RW if someone else locks down the LW ahead of him

          1. I’m thinking more after Brazil when Robben retires. Lens I think is better on the left, so that gives John a place on the right

      2. quote: “Eljero Elia= is LW, also, not a great level this moment”


        With how much certainty do you know this? Have you seen him play? Or is it based on the fact that he isn’t getting much playing time in a team that isn’t doing well (Werder Bremen)?

        I think Elia isn’t really making a name for himself in the Bundesliga anymore because of several factors that have little to do with his footballing qualities. I haven’t seen him play because he gets so little time anyway, but from checking up at which points he is used by his coach it seems his coach either uses him when he (and his team) are in trouble and losing the match. That’s the hardest time to come in and if your team continues to play bad it will rub off on you as well (you’ll get the blame for not providing an extra boost/impact for your team, ‘useless substitute’ label).

        Not to mention that Elia is the type of player that needs his team to have a lot of possession and dominance on the field so he can try his tricks without worrying about making mistakes and/or losing the ball. Those conditions do not exist at Werder Bremen right now. They don’t play their games like Barcelona to give an extreme example of what I mean (but Elia would be even better in a team like Ajax, who also like possession and dominating games, where the opponent will choose a more defense+quick counter style against them more often).

        Put him in the Dutch national team for a few friendlies and you might get his confidence back all the way to the point where he starts playing more freely with less pressure again. I think now when he comes in for Werder Bremen he’s probably more worried about not looking bad and doing ‘his duties’ rather than having some fun with the ball and his opponents. You also need to receive a lot of balls for this (requiring a team that likes to attack and knows how to do this, good build-up players like Sneijder and VDV are probably not around at Werder Bremen either, at least they aren’t on form either cause Werder Bremen plays even worse when Elia doesn’t get any time at all, statisticly, allthough this is a bit unclear and only based on the last few times I checked that Elia had minutes/playing time, but I also always quickly look at the score when he comes in, quite important as I just explained, especially for the Elia-type winger/player).

        Besides, there is no other Dutch leftwinger besides injury prone Robben that isn’t struggling either for playing time or good results either. A good result for me in this sense would be winning matches in either of the 4 major leagues, having a large contribution (being one of the more important players for your team’s offensive production of goals) in making your team win their national cup or league (that is if you’re playing in one of the minor leagues > France, Portugal, Netherlands, Russia, Turkey for example to name some leagues I can think of where Dutch players are playing or might be playing, I even put them in order of importance/quality of play for me, so I only look at the teams that win it or are competing to win it), and of course when these type of teams meat in the Champions League and Europa League.

        So that excludes accomplishments made against teams that aren’t competing for the title in the minor leagues unless your contribution is a very negative one (suck against Heerenveen and I WILL take note in the sense that if you can’t even do it against a minor team, how are you going to do it against a major team) allthough they may be used to take note of someone to see what they do in the bigger matches later on.

        I do think Feyenoord and Heerenveen could take on Werder Bremen right now though, but I have my doubts about how they will do against some of Werder Bremen’s opponents (that Elia also occasionally has to play against). That would be a reference to those teams in the Bundesliga competing for European football, a team Feyenoord may have to face next year.

        If Dutch teams keep losing matches even against teams that aren’t even competing in the 4 major leagues….well, what’s there really to talk about. I’ll just wait till they start winning and making it out of the groupstages (that last thing being FAR more important than winning one match that ultimately becomes a ‘hollow’ victory if you don’t make it out, referring to the completely meaningless, empty and therefore non-argument in all the comments I’ve read about Ajax winning and drawing against Manchester city being some kind of accomplishment, don’t make me cry. The current state of Dutch international football is horrible and these empty victories just make it worse cause they are used as excuses (again the part where they are used as excuses is the part that makes it so much worse, bearing the fact that we suck in general, referring to Dutch teams).

        But of course, this is all a result for how football started for me, I was spoiled with the initial results and have been looking, expecting perhaps even for more of the same (PSV winning with Romario, Ajax winning with vGaal and Kluivert mostly). I switched to only talking about the Champions League, but I’ll take a SF for the Europa League as a positive accomplishment right now and just making it out of the group in the CL with preferrably one really good key victory over a top team (major league team).

        Oh yeah, and I guess I was initially just talking about wingers but our recent performances in the Champions League and the Ajax vs Manchester city ‘excuse’ really gets under my skin (especially since as a bit of a sideline Ajax fan I expect/demand/would like that kind of quality from a team that I want to watch/follow, otherwise the matches become too boring, what’s the point in winning against a team like Heerenveen, I want to win against Madrid, Milan and Manchester WHEN it matters, and before I start hearing the argument, oh but Ajax did win against Manchester when it still mattered…well, what a convenient coincidence, I hate those kind of convenient coincidences even more, like a 7-1 (highscore? whas it 7?) ‘defender winking’ victory for a French team that conveniently knocks out a team whose national team has just gotten the results that will ensure the popularity of football and increase the football-economy/market in that country for at least a couple of years. How convenient, both markets marketed well at the same time. One market it’s clubs are doing well, one market it’s national team is doing well.

        Pure statisticly, I’m not sure if it adds up, but economicly, it’s perfect and convenient for everyone making money with football. I also don’t know if that tells us anything, but I still don’t have to like the coincidences and don’t feel the need to keep my mouth shut about them (cause I doubt anyone cares as much as I do about them, most of the time I just brush the thought away as well, but if they start winking on top of that? What’s up with that?).

      3. edit: “Pure statisticly, I’m not sure if it adds up,”

        With that I was referring to whether it is statisticly logical or explainable that a national team can still make it to the WC-final when it’s clubs are doing so poorly internationally.

        Satisticly you would think that its clubs would have to be a little bit better as well than, of course with our national team we have so many players playing abroad that we are perhaps in a special situation and statistics do not do ‘specials’ (in that sense). They translate ‘specials’ to ‘averages’ and ‘trends’ or exclude them entirely. Most specials are special because you can’t compare them statisticly, they are too different from eachother and then you get the comparing apples and oranges expression.

        So we’re an orange, what else is new.

      4. 2nd edit: with “PSV winning with Romario” I was referring to winning matches in the Champions League to the point that it starts to matter (making it out of the group, winning knock-out matches over 2 matches, in other words AC Milan did not WIN in that sense against Barcelona recently, allthough the win probably did do a lot of positive things for AC Milan’s market, sinc I talked about that, might as well add that thought, another hollow victory that does wonderfull things for Milan’s business interests, that is just a fact, if they lose both matches in a similar way, fans are less happy, unhappy people spend less money, especially on their footballclub but also commercial advertising is less effective, number of fans will dwindle when a team keeps losing and the market for that team will shrink, all just simple facts which such a hollow victory does have a rather substantial bigger influence on than on the progression of that team in the Champions league).

        I think it’s worthy to take into consideration especially when you’re a fan and are really happy after such a victory, and even more so if you’re amongst those celebrating and spending your money in the city just afterwards if it is a home-victory, how convenient again.

  42. Thank you Jan!
    1. If Bayern treats Robben as a sub then I would not mind he is moving to Gatalasary (although I would prefer a bigger club in a bigger league) where he can get a starting role and CL game.
    2. I am not Advocaat’s fan so I like the idea of Cocu to be a coach. He may not be FDB but I think we should give him a chance. I think FDB and Cocu did a good job when they were Bert’s assistants.
    3. I think Ajax will win Eredivisie this year and as a Ajax’s fan I like it. Yes Feyenoord may give NT more players and the youth system is doing well, and Ajax does not supply as many players as it used to be. I thought this problem was created by the old board. JC and co just takes control recently so give them some time. How long does it take Feyenoord to be where they are since they change their youth development system? Yes the future looks bright for Feyenoord but they have not won anything yet (sorry Jan!).
    4. I think we still need the big 4 (Wes, Raf, RVP and Robben) even if their form/fitness are 60%. Why? Leadership. LVG is grooming Strootman (and I hope BMI can be a vice-captain). We are only 14 months away so I hope Strootman and all these young players in NT will be much better. They are good but we need them to be better in order to win WC.
    5. Not sure what they are talking about but this is a great picture? Perhaps Wim says “let’s try your vision at Feyenoord” and JC says “great, i’m sure you will like the result?”.

    1. Just so you know…it’s actually a ‘big’ 5.

      You people (those who I have seen using the term big 4) are constantly underrating Hunter. He isn’t around the same amount of goals scored as vPersie with way less playing time for nothing you know.

      He’s better than Ruud van Nistelrooij ever was for Oranje (again, way more playing time, approx. same amount of goals).

      For me he’s the only one that can replace Kluivert in the sense that I’ve been looking for that replacement since he wasn’t used anymore in the national team after vGaal’s failure to qualify (I think missing an in-form Kluivert for most of the key matches, there might have been a lot of bad stories in the media about Kluivert those 2 years but I’m not sure about the timing, I know he suddenly dissappeared from Oranje and never was used again, except for maybe once to warm the bench as it is called).

      Anyway, Ruud van Nistelrooij never impressed me that much with his plays so you start waiting for the next Kluivert. Since I made a comment about that first Huntelaar youth EC-final goal that I saw, might as well add that that was the moment for me when I first thought, finally, Kluivert’s replacement has arrived.

      So not big 4, not big 11 either (cause there has to be some difference in quality, they can’t all be the same, that would be unnatural, even though there’s nothing wrong with the sentiment of course of a big 11, everyone will still have to be ‘big’ when the WC starts, but even when we won in ’88 we had 3 guys that stood out above the rest, Gullit, vBasten en vBreukelen, so in a sense we had a big 3, perhaps a big 4 if you count Koeman, but since he didn’t score one of his usual long distance strikes he shouldn’t count for that tournament in this sense), but big 5, that’s why I always look for ways to include all 5 of these players in my line-ups. But if Sneijder indeed is struggling (didn’t see the game in the champions league, did see other things from Sneijder and have to say I’m seeing nothing too different from before, a bit less patient perhaps, but I’ve seen that before as well, for example, going for the shot when there’s still some time+space left for an extra touch to re-adjust the position and movement of the ball for a more ideal shot (ideal contact with the ball). An example of this is Balotelli’s goal against Brazil recently. Horrible Brazilian defending allowed Balotelli to just wait for the ideal moment to make a connection with the ball, you can see him watching the ball and doing just that, he doesn’t even need to give it an extra touch cause no one is approaching him. That’s maximum efficient use of time and space available. Sneijder has a tendency to rush, but he’s always had that, at least from what I’ve seen since 2010, cause rushing has paid off as well, sometimes it’s even required when you can’t find some space and time to create a chance. And sometimes you even get lucky with it, it seems in 2010 everything was going Sneijder’s way, even the rushed shots went in (if you don’t shoot, you don’t score either must have been the concept to follow, good concept, but not always maximum efficiency especially if too many shots become ‘thank you’-shots instead of ‘oh no, they’re shooting, something is going wrong’-shots, expressing the feelings and effects these shots should or should not have on the opponent).

      But yeah, nothing new there (to add, his shot against Andorra for example might have benefitted from an extra touch to get it away from under his body a little more, but Sneijder seems to now be bothered too much from shooting from under his body, so to speak).

    2. I do know from watching Galataseray vs Schalke some time ago, that it feels like watching those old black and white slap-stick short reels that are played too fast.

      They run around a LOT. Play with a lot of heart, very energetic. But perhaps a bit clueless when it comes to positioning and running or passing in the right direction. And again, quite rushed sometimes which probably isn’t a good thing for Sneijder allthough I’ve seen patient Sneijder show up a lot of times as well for Inter, so I know he knows what he’s doing. These kind of decisions are just very hard to tell sometimes, even with the benefit of hindsight (like my Andorra example, who knows, maybe if he had taken the extra touch the space for the shot would have been closed down, perhaps his touch might have gone wrong to do the same or force a harder shot, who knows, still, it’s only Andorra, a confident Sneijder might have not worried about the part of space being closed down, you can always take yet another touch and still find some space, so confidence? I don’t know, can’t tell with what little I’ve seen of Sneijder, could be just warming up from not playing for a while, could be too much desire to score, causes rushing your shot as well, even seen that in vPersie in recent years, for example, attempting a volley instead of waiting for the bounce and/or taking a first touch, more like overconfidence after just scoring 2 similar goals that way on Song passes taken without a first touch, but in those situations there was also less space and time to work with and a more ideal movement and position of the ball compared to where vPersie was, well, more ideal for an immediate shot, not saying more ideal for a goal cause I can’t remember it that well).

  43. Wesley Sneijder has officially turned into trash. What the hell happened to him? Too much tattooing?! He is by far the worst player in the pitch. Such a pity.

    1. Mohamed, I feel sorry for myself for hoping for so long that Wesley would take me to the promised land. Don’t feel sorry for Wesley, he will be laughing his way to the bank for the rest of his life.

      1. I don’t think sneijder will stay in galatasaray for long time .
        He’s paid a big salary , they won’t keep him if he’s not worth the money .
        Pure and simple .

  44. I didn’t watch the Heerenven-Feyenoord game, but I think Koeman made a mistake using Immers as Pelle replacement instead use Anchabar.

    What do you think?


    1. You do realize Immers barely played right? He got injured very early in the first half and got subbed out.

      Everyone seems to like the idea of playing Achahbar, but don’t you guys think that if he was THAT good, we’d be seeing a lot more of him? Or is Koeman an idiot that doesn’t know what he’s doing?

  45. Its so frustrating and disappointing to see a player of his caliber getting wasted like this..Looks like he has lost his motivation to perform at the top level. His passes are half hearted, his once incredible vision seems so average and his agility is totally non-existent.

  46. I am done of supporting Sneijder, I dont know how about you guys but I think he is over, end, I dont want him to continue as a skipper for Nt, his lack of motivation is so annoying that I hope for the good of the Nt that LVG never summon him again.
    It is sad but it is truth, he is so over

  47. his career at the top might indeed be over but we as oranje diehards shouldnt write off one of our beloved heroes off so fast…yes if we were spanish italian english or anyone else we wud jibe at him n point fingers..even mock him…but we are all dutch at heart…lets support him morally by not giving up hope in him…cmon think of the glory times…the delicious banana swerve kicks…the ruthless freekicks with unerring accuracy…the long range blasts…evertyhing that made him a feature on nike adverts ahead of ronaldo n co….cmon guys…there is hope yet!

  48. Well I didn’t watch Sneijder’s game but I think it’s too harsh to take him off with only 45′ gone, don’t you think?.

    Is he playing in his position? or what do you guys think is the reason for his bad performances apart from the fact that he’s returning from injury?

  49. @miguel, I missed the first few minutes of the game, but, honestly, I can’t remember Sneijder doing anything in the 35′ I was supposed to have seen him. The sad thing is that Galatasaray’s play didn’t seem to be any different (worse or better) with and without him. Come to think of it, there might have been one occasion where he tried to do something, but stopped after a few steps, with a body language like “why bother?”. Sad.

    Or maybe Real was just too strong 😉

  50. Honestly I watched sneijder today and I was terribly shocked!!!!!!! Sneijder is DONE!!!!! U know sometimes U would know if a Player is going thru a bad phase but no the guy doesn’t exist! Honestly it made me think that galatasaray are idiots to bring a guy and pay him this much for nothing!!! They just bought the name! If van gaal watched this game he might be thinking (my two tens are maher and vdv) it is funny how I was thinking we should be done with vdv in the national team but when I saw how bas sneijder is I thought pleaaaaaase bring vdv:(!! If I was van gaal I would start focusing on maher he is the present and future, sneijder at 28 is already history!!

  51. @Rolf

    I never liked Babel…ever.

    But, he does have 50 career goals, in all clubs (not NT)

    For perspective, Kuyt has 235, LOL.

    RVP 176.

    RVN 347

    KJH 261

    Kluivert 200

    MVB 276

    JC 368

    I can’t find totals for Lenstra, but im sure he is over 300

    1. Paul please put to number of matches or played minutes of each players with goals.Please avoid eredivise goals and.plz take national team and EPL,seri A,La liga and bundesliga…

  52. I agreed that Sneijder had a bad game. I still think he needs time to regain his fitness/form or perhaps Gala’s tactical/style does not fit him. I would hope that both he and Robben perhaps can move to a bigger league/bigger club. I still think he is part of this team, perhaps he may lose the starting berth to VDV, but he still has a place. Still 14 months to go. I’m with SamNY, don’t write him off yet. I am concerned about these 2 players. Wonder if where they can move after this season. If no other big club in bigger leagues want them, I think perhaps they should consider moving back to Eredivisie.

  53. People badmouthing the player who almost singlehandedly brought us to the WC final, and was one of the only two players playing their hearts out at the Euro, should be ashamed of themselves.

    And it’s embarrassing to see people judge our captain on how the shit team that he’s been exiled to has been playing him. Come on people, show a little support. All over Europe our star players are being marginalized and scapegoated by fans and management, and all these supposed Dutch fans are joining in. TBH it’s disgusting. We’re Oranje SUPPORTERS. Lets show some SUPPORT towards our players

    1. Top comment.

      Sneijder together with Robben have the Alpha Male Mindset. It’s a very rare thing to have in your team. Keep in mind that Frank de Boer himself has said some time ago that the 1998 group did not really believe they could win the WC. They simply did not realize they could win it. All those giants people see in that team, still did not believe they could win it, while many already had won the CL title with Ajax and belonging to a more talented group than 2010. What does that tell you?

      You need the Aplha Male Mindset in your team. This is a ones in a generation rarity coming along. Maybe multi generational rarity coming along we now have. For all of RVP’s quality, he does not have the big mindset. I am still hoping the United culture effecting his thinking. Maybe becoming EPL champ has it’s effect. However that is hope. As of now, he does not have it.

      I don’t care for what is happening in Turkey and Gala. Turkish competition always goes for names and does not think enough about tactics and optimal synergy. How many CL titles have Turkish clubs won in their history? At Madrid they also misused Sneijder and Mourinho started to stalk him, bombarding him with text messages to come to Inter. He understood how to play Sneijder. Sneijder needs to be played in a certain way. Gala is not doing this and so his performance there is to be taken with a grain of salt. The only thing he does need to get in order is his fitness. That is my serious demand. He needs a good fitness coach, eat properly and go to bed at a decent hour. Maybe the bad situation at Gala gets him back in fighting mode. Does not have to be a bad thing with another season ahead of us before the WC.

      1. We got too many alpha male mindset guys here in the states. the dutch have them if they want. they can help to train the dutch men to become more alpha or whatever. just take them and never let them return to the states.

      2. alpha male mindset causes overconfidence and rushing.

        Doesn’t work. It can be helpful in creating confidence where there is a lack (people who fearfully give the ball away to one of their teammates in as safe a way as possible cause they don’t want to look bad or make a mistake). It seems to even happen at the very top where usually this feeling actually creates the mistakes. The fear of failing.

        Be wise instead. Balance is the key. Humble in the right situations, confidence and gutsy in other situations, careful and accurate in yet others. Every situation and/or chance has a different attitude it should be connected with. Many factors influence this choice but the most influencing one is position of players and the ball (another example would be the capabilities of those players, more later on this).

        Yet in contrast the choice made is influenced by many outside factors, previous plays and the experience gained by these plays, scoreline, media-stories and personal life events, social contacts with teammates, playing time with teammates and experiences during those events.

        Example of that last one: Song trying the same type of pass over and over, even when the space isn’t there because the defenders are waiting for that particular pass, see my last comment about Song’s 2 succesfull assists, just talking about its influence, not if the choice is wrong or right, this ties back into the capabilities of players, Song assesses the capabilities of vPersie based on previous experience, but assessed capabilities are always a guess cause every incoming pass is unique, therefore, this still lies somewhat in contrast with the factor that SHOULD determin the choice in action for Song, of course, this is not possible and therefore Song has to make an assessment of these actual capabilities of a future unique situation that may have some similarities with other unique situations that produced a goal and also an assist of course).

        You could probably go on for a while with examples of these influencing factors compared to the actual factors that determin the outcome (goal or not). But it’s safe to say that the actual factors are always guessed/estimated better when players have played with eachother or against eachother (but watching eachother play helps extremely I would think, so that would be an excellent training excercise, I wonder if that is ever being done when it comes to national teams, and I’m not talking about your own games, I’m talking about Sneijder sitting down to see a Manchester United game, 50-80% of vPersie’s playing time, or vice versa, out of their own interest, otherwise it wouldn’t work either I think). Perhaps too much to do at once, but like fans do it, watch a game here and there, a few more to get to know even more, but still, no replacement for actually playing the passes and/or making the moves (if there is no pass involved).

        The actual factors are too unique to quantify, therefore a guess/estimation is always required, and the closer your guess, the better your choice. Yep, the brain works very fast. All of this goes on within 0.01 seconds. Quite amazing. It’s almost instant, a reflex, it still happens though, and can be influenced and changed before it happens with some of the examples I have given.

  54. It looks like both Dortmund and Real will be in the semifinals of the CL…Interesting that they also were in Ajax’s group. Just noticing that’s all. And we played really well in Dortmund, could and should have been a draw. Outplayed them at home but they scored on 4 counter attacks and 4 shots on goal. Had we been in any other group, the outcome would have been vastly different.

    1. Last year against a really weak Lyon Ajax was unable to beat, and Zagreb, it was corruption, now it’s a too hard group, two years ago Ajax lost against Auxerre (!!!)…

      For sure Real and Dortmund are two top teams, but you can’t say it was 4 counter attacks against Dortmund, it was a game where Ajax put a horrible team with Enoh-Poulsen home, really not a good way to show you wanna play a good football, and Boerrigter/Lukoki on wings…

      Dortmund really scored too too easy that night, seemed like they could score 2-3 more just with waiting for an Ajax player to make a mistake. Everyone talks about Ajax who beat City, but no one talked about the difference of difficulty Real and Dortmund had to beat City compared to games against Ajax (except the game in Dortmund I agree).

      1. Jeff I believe that Ajax puts too much emphasis on possession. Frank de Boer believes that if you have the majority of the possession, you are playing an excellent game. You need to do something with it.

        Against Dortmund you didn’t and they did. They let Ajax have the ball (like so many teams did), but then when they turned it up a notch the ball was in the back of the net faster than you can blink. I was all for Ajax making it to the next round, but the team they have now just isn’t good enough. Dutch teams need a very favourable draw if they want to make it to the next round

  55. For Gala-Real game, it is not Sneijder’s fault. Gala’s coach decide to go head-to-head by attacking Real on Real’s stadium. It is a suicidal move, not very smart and Real just takes advantage by fast counter-attack. They should have park the bus and tries to tie or lose 1-0 and then hope to have a better game at home. Tactical is the major cause for this 3-0 loss.

  56. There is no reason to worry about wesly when u have Van ginkel and Maher in ur team…Its not wesly’s issue its his natuarl ageing.i never played top flight football.i played as right wing back.But i know how i played at the age of 23 and 29.At 23 i could do whatever i wish ,i had the speed and skills for the game but i 29 i had to faul a lot to stop the energetic 23 year old guys.it was really tough..

  57. Tiju, Van Ginkel and Maher are still promising talents who have not proven yet. Yes I like their potentials and I can see that Maher is the option behind Sneijder or VDV. I still prefer Sneijder over VDV although at the current VDV is better than Sneijder.

    1. The issue is team balance and energy,when u play plenty of 29s in starting eleven then you will see a static game.that is what happend in EC2012.thats not cool to watch or u might find boring.LVG is not fan of that.At 29 onwards players loose their speed and it is hard for a normal human body to play top flight football in good respective way like giggs does or our Giovani did.What if Maher/Ginkel was there for Wesly yesterday for galatasray??they would had a better game.its because of the energy.and work ethos.I have never seen a Trophy won by less running team.I am not hyping young lads or writing off wesly.its all merit.you cannot stay in th team because of ur past.Ronaldihno has won more than Wesly.Now ronaldino is out of brazil team.thats how life is.It should be good for the collective good for the team.My point is if a 35 year old plays better than a 21 and then 35 year old should selected and it applies in viceversa.At present Maher and ginkel plays better than Vaartb and Wesly.So we must give them priority…its all merit nothing else…

      1. Haha!
        ‘Maher and ginkel plays better than Vaart’
        Do you actually watch football matches? Or do you just pull these bizarre statements from thin air to suit whichever dead horse theory you are flogging at the time?
        Could you provide us with some evidence to support this claim? Or is it merely subjective, in which case why do you not simply add “in my opinion” or “I think” to your comments?

        ‘I have never seen a Trophy won by less running team’
        It’s ridiculous comments like this which get you into trouble.
        Did you miss the Euro 2004 Championships? How about the 2006 World Cup? Ever heard of it? Football is far more complex than you seem to consider. It might be worth you expanding your knowledge of the game a little (a lot) before you seek to lecture us again. Just an idea…. 😛

        1. @Rolf i dont have short memory.2004Greece worked their butt off to get that trophy especially when we consdier their lacvk of skill…It was amazing grit and hardwork.nothing else.
          2006. italy didnt had the silky players much intheir team except Totti and Delpiro.But even fabio grosso and materzi scored.they also played real hard did u watched italys game vs Ghana??it says a lot…all my comment are my opinion not others opinion.
          football is complex game and thats why i call Cryuff genius player.its all about movemnet of the players,I know that maradona was hell of a player,why arjetina is not using him or even Riqulme??Maher and Ginkel are intelligent hardworking skilled players they dont reduce any quality except bit experience.its keep up the balance of the team.No one is goin to argue about the quality of WEs and vaart,what if they become static?????what are they goin to do with out movements in football feild??this is what my question.its all age factor.it really hard for them to play like 23 year old stamina.but it is possible with few but not with evryone.how much games u played at the age of 30/29??with 23/24 year old??.
          All cups are won by teams who workd their butt off in evry tournament.Even italy 2000Ec worked hard in defense we workdhard in offence,due to bit unluck they won.May be Toldo showed more guts than dutch players in penalty thats it.all teams are won the cup by some reasons and for some reasons they DESERVE IT.

          1. HAHA!
            Tiju just got OWNED again. hahahahahaha! too easy.

            Rolf, i commend you. you destroyed his baseless statements with two perfectly cited examples of recent memory.

            Tiju, would you care to answer questions when they are put to you? Or do you not have answers? hahahaha. In which case, stop posting rubbish, please.

            Also, rolf is right. Tiju, stop preaching. Your comments are ridiculous, but the tone you use is even worse.
            You are NOT an authority on football. You know nothing. Use “in my opinion” and people will respond better to you. Otherwise you sound like an idiot. Just pointing this out, so you don’t have to get so badly owned again.

        2. @Rolf
          i think u r the one who cannot respect other in this blog. u see Bayern Hamburg? vaart was bullshit, he cannot help his team in big games, because he cannot run. i think he is better than sneijder, but if u cannot run against younger teams u r out. I think Maher and Van Ginkel have to player in our team in 2014.

          it is obviously we cannot win WC2014, but if we play by younger player, we can go to latest stage in 2016 and 2018. look at netherland in 2006. van basten do it, and we see its result in 2010.
          in 2004 greece do magic, no one can do it in this football. their beat france, because france was old and cannot run like younger team. look at barcelona their win everything because they run more than other teams, barcelona these days r not good as previous years, becasue Xavi and Iniesta not enough young, and don’t run like last years.
          what happened in 2006? football is not just running, but running play important role in that. Tiju comments not mean u have just to run. he show us Run a factor a team need to have it if they want to win a trophy.

          Rolf why u cannot be a little with respect about others comments?

          1. Faraz, don’t bother sticking up for tiju. you are backing the losing team.
            Furthermore, your posts here are every bit as ridiculous, unfounded and pointless as his. Watch some games. Then comment.

            respect is earned, not demanded.
            I’ll show you some respect when you earn it, moron. until then, think before you type and watch your tongue, boy. you have failed to counter a single thing that i wrote – instead you are arguing blindly and rudely on some unrelated tangent. This is evidence of a cluttered mind, so i’ll keep this brief in order for you to understand it.

            dumbfuck, neither Greece nor Italy won those tournaments due to ‘running’, ‘speed’ or ‘age’! hahahahahahahaha what a clown.
            they won with superior defence and team mentality.
            please think before you post.

            ever notice why no-one responds to your crap?
            we ignore you!

        3. @Rolf i dont have short memory.2004Greece worked their butt off to get that trophy especially when we consdier their lack of skill…It was amazing grit and hardwork.nothing else.
          2006. italy didnt had the silky players much intheir team except Totti and Delpiro.But even fabio grosso and materzi scored.they also played real hard did u watched italys game vs Ghana??it says a lot…all my comment are my opinion not others opinion.
          football is complex game and thats why i call Cryuff genius player.its all about movemnet of the players,I know that maradona was hell of a player,why arjetina is not using him or even Riqulme??Maher and Ginkel are intelligent hardworking skilled players they dont reduce any quality except bit experience.its keep up the balance of the team.No one is goin to argue about the quality of WEs and vaart,what if they become static?????what are they goin to do with out movements in football feild??this is what my question.its all age factor.it really hard for them to play like 23 year old stamina.but it is possible with few but not with evryone.how much games u played at the age of 30/29??with 23/24 year old??.
          All cups are won by teams who workd their butt off in evry tournament.Even italy 2000Ec worked hard in defense we workdhard in offence,due to bit unluck they won.May be Toldo showed more guts than dutch players in penalty thats it.all teams are won the cup by some reasons and for some reasons they DESERVE IT.

          1. posting the same crap twice doesn’t make it any more correct, numbnuts.

            where is your evidence? when you state/preach a bold claim you certainly need to back it up with evidence, statistics, videos, proof. where are they?

            Rolf steered a ship through the holes in your statement. And you have nothing to reply but rudeness?
            pathetic. you are the worst Troll ever.

            no one said italy or greece didn’t work hard, you imbecile.
            YOU said:
            ‘when u play plenty of 29s in starting eleven then you will see a static game.
            I have never seen a Trophy won by less running team.’

            so since we have established WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE that both these statements are false, what is your next move? oh yes. You repeat the exact same crap again hoping someone else will agree…….
            do you never learn?

            ‘At present Maher and ginkel plays better than Vaart’
            Opinions like this are SUBJECTIVE in nature.
            when you write them as statements you are not inviting a debate. You are trying to force your opinion on us. You will NEVER gain support like that. NEVER.

      2. Tiju has an interesting hypothesis about running and team strength.

        I don’t know how to access all the stats to test Tiju’s idea, but the Bundesliga has something, at least.

        Haven’t been through each week, but it looks like Bayern — which is truly dominating the league — rarely leads in running distance or sprints.


        Anyone else want to weigh in on this with some statistical evidence?

        1. @Goldstone…I am a fan of Vaart,i feel now Vaart is more useful to NT than wesly.Playing for hamburg and Galatasray is good thing they are strong teams.and bundesliga is tougher than eredivise.But when i look in to Maher and Ginkel for these veterens.i have a feeling that energy,skills and intellignce of these lads combined with roben and persie ,stroot,Clasie,De vrij,Vanrihjn,BMI would form a competent team.at least we will have a chance to fight…I know that experience is valubae but that we will get from Persie,Roben and Even heitinga and Nijel.In football u need to run.its a SIN that if a players holds a spot due to his previous records.As much as i like vaart and Wes they should step up their stamina other wise LVG must take a strong decision..which i feel real hard in medical point of veiw as it seems.

          1. oh btw, you do realize you said “At 29 onwards players loose their speed” and then your next response is about Sneijder who is only 28?

            Should we be expecting a drop in speed from Sneijder after June 9th this year? 😛

            I think your statement about never having seen a Trophy won by a team that runs less may be influenced by what you want to see, could it? I mean watching Inter could get quite boring actually, not a lot of running there. Galataseray is great, total chaos, people running in all directions, always something happening somewhere, and their national team can make comebacks from 2-0 down with 10 minutes to go or something to win the match, great entertainment.

          2. ah, I see now, on March 10. 2010 Eto’o became 29, that was well before the Champions League final and probably semi-final as well (after just checking, 6 days before the Chelsea game = QF? or round 2?). Reaching 29 didn’t phase him much. I’d argue he was even better for Inter than he was for Barca the year before. If that is so, why can’t it be the same for Sneijder when he turns 29?

        2. ‘Tiju has an interesting hypothesis about running and team strength.’

          No. No he does not.
          There is no weighing-in with stats, because there is no evidence to support his statements.

          ‘Bayern — which is truly dominating the league — rarely leads in running distance or sprints.’
          Correct – another example of his backwards thinking. Thank you Sol.
          I wish he would think before posting, rather than typing the first crap that enters his head.

          1. BARCA IS so static may be in ur point of veiw??/why are deviating from point???.
            @Faraz thank u so much mate…these pundits think they are right a and they put some irrelavant stati and saying nonsense…Dont they hav the intelligence to understand to DEfend also u need to run a lot????????.Bayern ha s always better possesion than any team in budesliga so they dont have to run but still schweni,martiz,gustao,krros runs like heelll even our Roben too

          2. @Canna whay are you proving that u r a nut or dumb.U have no obsevation skills and ur comment are artocious.U think u r a genius that is ur problem.but u r a fool in paradise,who see only one side…FYI .i know that u may not have anyone to love or u may be lonely.Dont think everyone are like that.U r a worst fool who comments on this blog..U r th one whot idiotic comments.it shows ur culture and behaviour u r not less than tedbundy.Go and watch games..
            or play games in a gppd level with 23/24 year old guys if u are 30.then u will realise what is fact?have u ever played football?Why are comiing here in different names????u r mott is to stirr up this blog..You have been fooled in ur whole life and keep goin it…fool……

      3. quote :”At 29 onwards players loose their speed and it is hard for a normal human body to play top flight football in good respective way like giggs does or our Giovani did.

        I have never seen a Trophy won by less running team.”


        Then what was the key for Inter’s Champions League trophy in 2010? Or who did all the running? Eto’o? Wasn’t he approaching an older age as well (that being one of the reasons he was going down-hill in clubs Barcelona>Inter>some rich club in the middle of nowhere)?

        Sure, Wesley was a bit younger then, but most of that team was over 30. I don’t remember any particular youngster with a big impact other than the ones I named (they had Balotelli but he never had a huge impact and wasn’t used so often, he still had to learn that choice-process I talked about a little better, I immediately remember one moment for Inter whenever I think about Balotelli where he was booed by the Inter fans for his bad choice which he couldn’t handle very well, never really having been accepted as part of the team by the fans either it seemed, read quite a few nasty comments that day on the Inter blog that you could find through the old Dutch Wordlcupblogsite Jan managed).

        I mean, what did they expect with so little playing time (he went for the shot from an impossible distance at a really difficult moment for Inter, they were probably behind and creating few chances, finally the space and Balotelli wastes it like that)? And what did Balotelli expect for that matter as I’ve just described it? Of course the fans really felt an opportunity had been taken away from them and they let it know.

        It’s like in the schoolyard the teacher has to come and tell both of them they’re sorry even though they act like children and both sides don’t want to admit they’re wrong (the fans shouldn’t have been so harsh on him in case that wasn’t clear, they guy was a good player, told them back then on the blog and the Italian blog where comments where made that Balotelli shouldn’t play for Italy because he was crap and such and I couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t selected yet for the National Team cause I felt after 2008 that that was just what they needed, some spice up front creating chaos and action).

        1. Motta,Wesly,eto were younger 3 years ago.and 38 year old zaneti played like 19 year old stamina.Zanetti is exceptional case that is not the case with wesly.Wesly really wants to do well but his body is not coperating with him So is vaart.Inter were tough and they played hard and workrate was awesome..

          1. I think you’re worrying too much about Sneijder concerning speed there, he’s never had speed in the first place, his strength always came from his choice-making (and information collecting-) process.

            But let’s get back to Inter’s success. I don’t remember Motta being such a huge part in Inter’s success (wasn’t he often used as a substitute or replacement for players like Cambiasso?). Wasn’t it Sneijder, Eto’o and Milito that were responsible for most of the goal-production and Lucio, Samuel, Maicon and Zanetti were mostly the ones preventing the goals being scored on their side of the field. the 2 key-matches for them, Chelsea and Barcelona, first one, good pass by Sneijder followed by an even better outside foot effect finish (to make sure the ball would curve towards the inside of the post instead of curving away from goal) by Eto’o. 2nd one (Barca) it was Lucio who really got under the skin of Messi with his correct physical defending (finally allowed by the ref as opposed to otherwise apparently cause with Messi looking pleadingly towards the ref he was indicating that he was used to getting those kind of calls in his favor confirming some of my suspicions regarding how hard it is for refs to ignore a big name like that and stay as neutral as possible, which was further confirmed for me when I saw Webb not calling a foul when Elia went past 2 Spanish players in the WC-final and was fouled by either Ramos or Puyol, or both working together to block his path, for me a clear foul, but Elia is an unknown, so it gets overlooked).

            Sneijder was awesome in the first match vs Barcelona as well, and the quite OLD Milito.

            re-reading your comment…so it´s safe to say that Zanetti would be someone that disproves your earlier statement about youngsters (which I didn’t include in my quote)? So as usual, the ‘special’ gets excluded from the ‘average’ or ‘trend’ (, ‘general rule’) cause it’s too hard to explain? 😉 (you called him an “exceptional case”)

            Ok, so for my opinion on what you said about running in particular, I think it matters more that players are able to make the correct decisions as to where, when and at what speed to run than their actual top speed (allthough a high top speed comes in handy). I can even see Robben sometimes trying to go too fast (it happens less often lately), it makes it harder to control an incoming pass (regardless whether you’re going for a finish or a first touch or a flick or whatever) and you’re more inclined to start rushing things as well (again I’d like to refer to Balotelli’s patience just before his shot/goal against Brazil, that’s not his top speed, he slows down on purpose, he wants to get his steps just right). It’s basicly what I also indicated about Galataseray, they have some players there (not Yilmaz) that don’t seem to know how to cover an area without having to do much running. I don’t remember Lucio and Samuel doing all that much running, but they had things tight at the back. Trying to break Inter’s defence was like dragging through mud or sinking away in quicksand, tight spaces with defenders that stick to you like glue and never allow you an inch of space unless it’s towards the sides of the field where they can bottle you up later forcing you to go back again. That was about position choosing, not running there (a few quick steps here and there, but no endless running, very static, very boring to see, but that’s exactly what you want on your side of the field, the exciting stuff has got to happen on your opponent’s side, they can run around there like crazy, chaos is good for goals).

          2. in short, for me it was Inter’s non-running static defence that was one key for their success (except running Maicon, but that was on offence, Zanetti just dribbled the ball forward, and not at top speed, Lucio and Samuel did that occasionally as well, but not with the kind of success Zanetti had).

            That defence was there long before 2010, you could see how good they were defensively in the preceding years in the Champions League, all they were lacking was goals (and what is sometimes referred to as creativity or flair up front). That’s what Eto’o, Sneijder and Milito brought to the team that year and made them complete allowing them to win it.

            Not running.

            Running is just a small part of the game and I think Maicon was the only one who did a lot of running (sometimes, or perhaps even more often than ‘sometimes’ he was quite selfish though and making wrong decisions concerning shots on goal from impossible angles, because he scored from them occasionally as well, but usually requiring a keeper mistake, he even did the same during the world cup and got himself a goal that way against a very poor North Korean keeper, a goal that was heavily overrated in the highlights afterwards, tried it again against Stekelenburg and I was happy to see that Stekel was waiting for it, simple ‘thank you’ balls shouldn’t be treated as ‘oh no, they’re shooting’, which was the only thing I felt Stekel was still doing wrong there, but otherwise he had his post covered and the ref didn’t see anyway that he touched the ball for a corner so no harm done and frustration and irratation for Maicon with the ref, perfect, finally a call in our favor).

          3. Sol i am not pointing speed of wesly.he was neverbeen a usainbolt in speed.but he always had quick thinking,that was his main strength.I was pointing his decresd stamina due to age.To defend well also u need to run a lot,coz u dont have the ball in ur feet.i watched all those games i never felt short of workrate/lack of stamina in any inter players including wesly at that point of time.they were defensive an may be unattractive thats it.Wesly is a fighter and he wants to do well,he is fighting in my opinion,his body is not helping him thats what i meant and i feel from my little playing football experience..

  58. Games with Dutch National Team players and prospects
    New York Eastern time USA

    Thursday April 4th


    Benfica vs Newcastle (ola john, vurnon anita)
    Fenebahce vs Lazio (kuyt)

    Friday April 5th


    Feyenoord vs Venlo

    Saturday April 6th


    Leverkusen vs Wolfsburg (bas dost)
    Borussia monchenglabach vs fuerth (luuk de jong, brouwers)
    Frankfurt vs Bayern munich (robben)
    Werder Bremen vs Schalke 04 (elia, huntelaar?)


    Norwich City vs Swansea City (vorm, de guzman)
    Stoke City vs Aston villa (vlaar)
    Sheffield wednesday vs blackburn (rekik, not premier league)


    stade rennes vs PSG (van der wiel maybe)


    Hamburg vs Freiburg (van Der vaar, bruma)
    VItesse vs breda (van ginkel, van aanholt)

    Willem vs PSV eindhoven


    Sporting lisbon vs moirense (schaars, van wolfswinkel, boulahrouz)

    Sunday April 7th

    Gronigen vs herenveen
    NEC vs AZ

    Tottenham vs Everton (heitinga)

    Newcastle vs Fulham (emanuelson, anita)

    ajax vs hercules (obviously a greek league game)

    Olhanese vs Benfica (ola john)

    Monday April 8th
    3:00pm or 15:00
    Manchester united vs Manchester city


    as roma vs lazio (stekelenburg, big rivalry game)

    Tuesday April 9th


    Real madrid vs galatasaray
    malaga vs dortmund

    wednesday april 10th

    Barcelona vs psg
    juventus vs bayern munich

    1. yeah Onzie, keep doing this, I’m sure there’ll always be people reading it for whom it is useful. I’ve used your lists plenty of times already.

  59. I don’t know if anyone has mentioned but Ricky van wolfswinkel scored a hattrick last week against braga to win 3-2 . I know he has stagnated somewhat this year but his goals were pretty good. I reckon he could reach a decent level after he moves on from Norwich and has an effect like de Guzman has at Swansea where his talent is displayed week in week out

  60. When Tiju post something, someone who can not carry it alone, come here and add comments with different names, like Canaa:)) he don’t exsist in last posts, now he is one of orange fan :)). Canna i don’t have time to read ur comments, but u r right:) be patient, don’t be Nervous.

  61. Canna:))
    every time Tiju post something, someone who cannot carry it alone, come here and posts something for us, Canna didn’t posts in our last posts, and didn’t exists, but now he is one of orange fan, and cannot sleep if orange beat by Portugal. Canna sorry i haven’t time to read ur comments, becoz u r nervous and cannot post everything just with one name, i have to say u r right, be patient, don’t fear everything. everything would be good and u would be good again. just pass it
    wish best for u my firend

    1. Maybe everyone who posts here, other than you and Tiju, is really just one guy… It could just be the two of you using fake names so that you have more to argue about…

  62. Benfica 3 vs 1 Newcastle

    Ola John 3/5

    Demonstrated his blistering pace on a couple of occasions in, though his end product was lacking at times. Had one shot saved well by the legs of Krul after cutting in from the right.

    Tim Krul 3.5/5

    Produced a handful of fine saves in the first half to keep out Gaitan, Cardozo and John. Could do little about Benfica’s three goals, particularly Lima’s opportunist effort and Cardozo’s penalty.

    Vurnon Anita 2/5

    Replaced the injured Perch on the hour mark but failed to leave his mark on the game as Benfica ran out victors.

  63. Sneijder: I was not good enough against Madrid
    Latest Demichelis: Malaga can still eliminate Dortmund NextMourinho: Galatasaray need a miracle
    By Stefan Coerts
    Apr 4, 2013 8:35:00 AM

    The Galatasaray star was unable to make his mark against his former team as he was replaced at half-time when his side were 2-0 down

    BET: RETURNS: Real Madrid £11.40 Draw £75.00 Levante £170.00
    Galatasaray playmaker Wesley Sneijder has admitted that he did not contribute enough in the first leg of his side’s 3-0 Champions League quarter-final loss against Real Madrid.

    The Netherlands international featured from the start at the Santiago Bernabeu, but was taken off at half-time after failing to make an impact in the opening 45 minutes.

    “Of course I am disappointed. I wanted to finish this game, especially here at the Santiago Bernabeu where I played in the past. I was unable to do that and that’s disappointing,” the Dutchman told NOS.

    “I am in good physical condition and I’m feeling good. I did have a few minor physical problems, though, because I had to do a lot of running. But that’s not an excuse, because it’s clear that I should have offered more.

    “Normally, I receive the ball between the lines when I am available for one or two seconds, but not this time. When that doesn’t happen, you’re pretty much invisible. It might have looked pretty bad, but it wasn’t that poor.”

    Galatasaray will be looking to bounce back from their loss to Madrid on Saturday when they host Mersin Idman Yurdu.

    Now it’s official: Wesley Sneijder’s top level career is definitely over
    Latest Bale buckles as Tottenham succumb to pressure of fighting on two fronts NextItaly unlikely to start taking the Europa League seriously despite Lazio progress
    Apr 4, 2013 8:15:00 AM

    The Dutchman was hauled off after 45 minutes against Real Madrid, and it can now be safely said that the old Sneijder will never return

    BET: RETURNS: Real Madrid £11.40 Draw £70.00 Levante £210.00
    By Enis Koylu

    Wesley Sneijder’s dreadful display against former team Real Madrid was undoubtedly the final nail in the coffin for his hopes of re-establishing his place at Europe’s top table.

    The Dutchman has been in almost irreversible decline since falling out of favour at Inter and, as predicted by Goal.com in January, his switch to the Turkish Super Lig has done little to stem the tide.

    His fall from grace with the Nerazzurri was astonishing. After leading them to an historic treble in 2010, the succession of unsuccessful coaches at San Siro and his injury problems saw him fall away from the first team, exemplified by the club’s demands that he must accept a paycut to stay.

    Entering the game after 57 minutes, Sneijder did not look ready for action.
    Failed to impress on his Champions League return and was hauled off at the break.
    Struggled to make any kind of impact, and was a complete passenger.
    Didn’t seem to understand his role and was replaced after just 58 minutes.
    Barely a factor, he could not inspire his team with any creativity. Subbed at half-time.

    Sneijder’s move to Galatasaray this January gave him the opportunity to star in the Champions League and prove everyone wrong. Unfortunately for the Dutchman, though, he has failed to justify the Istanbul club’s €25.5 million total outlay for him.

    While Didier Drogba, the other big name who made his way to the Turk Telekom Arena, took just five minutes to make an impact in a yellow and red shirt, Sneidjer’s performances have been poor.

    He has been sacrificed at half-time in two of his three Champions League games with the club, the home leg against Schalke in the last 16 and Wednesday’s 3-0 loss to Real Madrid, and his inability to play in any position but ‘the hole’ left his side with an abominable lack of width which ultimately led to their downfall.

    Sneijder’s domestic form has not been much better. A complete passenger for many games, he has only scored twice, against Orduspor and Kayserispor – perfectly ordinary teams whom Galatasaray would have beaten anyway.

    The nadir was his performance at the Bernabeu. Playing at his old home against his old coach, Jose Mourinho, on the world’s biggest stage, Sneijder was a non-entity, leaving coach Fatih Terim to make excuses for another shoddy showing.

    “Sneijder was taken off at half-time,” he commented after the match. “Not because he was injured, but because he worked hard and was tired.”

    The truth is, though, Sneijder is enduring the same problems he suffered after Mourinho’s departure from San Siro. His deployment forces a tactical reshuffle, and the resultant lack of width handed Madrid the advantage.

    His signing by Galatasaray was an unnecessary one, born out of the ruthless ambition of president Unal Aysal, who seems more concerned with increasing Galatasaray’s global brand than creating a cohesive football team.

    When Sneijder signed for Galatasaray, he admitted that he was no longer in the world’s top five players. Well, he probably isn’t in the top 100 any more, either.

    Gala will be back. They look good value to secure the Super Lig title once more, but Sneijder does not look to be the man to lead the club to a fresh wave of success, particularly given the heroics of the likes of Burak Yilmaz and Selcuk Inan on a regular basis.

    1. The second article really is a dreadful piece of writing. If he plays 3 consecutive good games we’ll be reading about the return of Wesley Sneijder.

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