Pic: Bert van Marwijk signing till 2016, Bert van Oostveen gloats.
Before Friday July 6, we will know if Bert van Marwijk is going to remain Oranje’s team manager. Before that date, the KNVB will do an evaluation. “Bert deserves a real and honest evaluation,” says Bert van Oostveen, KNVB’s CEO.
“We will analyse this project 360 degrees.”
When Oranje leaves Krakow for the last time, Bert van Oostveen is driving on the A2 in Holland together.
That was quick?
“Well, there was nothing to do for me there anymore. The works has to be done here now. I need to brush up the splinters and get them together one more time to analyse it all.”
Is this the end of the team manager?
“What kind of question is this? That is not how it works. We always evaluate tournaments. And Bert deserves an honest and objective evaluation.”
When?
“We will meet before we go on a holiday. I am leaving on July 6, so before that date.”
Van Oostveen was surprised by the atrocious physical condition of the Dutch team. “I want to know how it was that other teams were so much fitter than we were. I need to know as the CEO, but also as a fan? Everyone saw it? And I saw more things that surprised me. So we’ll approach this from all angles. 360 degrees. We cannot accept this scenario again ever and therefore we will scan it all. It’s not about missing chances on the pitch, but also about missing chances off the pitch.”
So what is the cost to the KNVB in total?
“Well, it is all under pressure now. We will lose our ranking position. We will be happy if we stay in the top 10!! And that means we will be less interesting as opponents. And we might lose money in ticket sales. It will be less. And we will all have to pull our weight a tad more now. We play the Turks in Amsterdam in September and we don’t want more Turkish fans than Dutch fans of course. On the other hand, our stature as vice world champs is still intact in Asia and South America, so we can probably leverage that by doing a trip in that direction.”
With the current coach?
“We’ll know soon enough!”
This CEO is not starting on the right foot … he speaks a lot about financial impact, but I don’t give a damn shit about KNVB finances. At this stage he should be speaking about fans dissapointment, tarnishing of our image and most of all about returning to our great brand of football. I understand that money is important for investing back in the game, but at this stage it was too early to speak in this manner. IMO at least.
Well to be fair the interviewer asked him the question about money … he should have asked him other questions at this early stage 🙂
@ AL…i agree…we have started talking about money here…what about the dissapointment and the loss of image and honour…anyways but he does point out the fact that i and many of us said about players looking spent after just 20 mins into the game…that is a real problem…we need players like edgar davids…
but lets be hopeful..i guess they are going to look at this issue seriously and i guess the KNVB would ask BVM to resign if he doesnot do it himslef…the biggest thing here is not BVM retiring but who is going to be hired…that will give a lot of clue how we want to take the next team forward…lets hope they convince some one like pep guardiala to do the job…he is young and i guess wud also be a good man manager…and he is if the cruyff style of football..
If BVM gets through this, someone else is going to need to be scapegoated. A price will demand to be paid.
Could it be laid at the feet of the the trainers? Or whoever booked the team into a hotel a thousand miles away from the field where they would play all three matches?
Is that the same numbnutz who arranged a sightseeing day at Auschwitz? The symbolism was great. The emotional focus for the team however? Distracting.
The team was tired. It craves new blood.
If BVM survives, he’ll certainly sacrifice his son-in-law. And he’ll have to lay in with the axe somewhere else, as well.
The denouement of “tragedy” isn’t tidy.
And maybe it’s time to hire up Jap Staam to coach the defense. 😉
maybe with a lower ranking we finally won’t be thrown into a group of death.. i mean 2004, 2006, 2008, 2012… in the last 4 out of 5 tourneys we were in the group of death… is that fair? i think not.
He was surprised by how tired the players were after flying them back and forth over 1,300 kilometres to each match totally unnecessarily?
Wow – what an idiot.
To be blunt the people arranged all that un-necessary traveling around deserve to be sacked. Once they had the schedule all they had to do was find a really nice hotel and training ground in the city they were playing in.
Yeah, the Dutch players are mouthy and opionated – anything new? But they tired and beat after a long season – and you idiotically wanted to bounce all over the place? That was stupid – if you don’t give players the opportunity to rest, they can’t train hard, and if they can’t train hard they can’t get in a rhythem with one another.
It was that simple – tactics and all that might have made a bit of a difference – but I didn’t notice ANY of the Oranje players doing much of anything in the last 20 minutes of each game.
To use the old expression – if you didn’t make the right arrangements all the talk of who to play was simply moving deck chairs on the Titanic. It didn’t matter – the ship was gonna crash.
God ver*****
Nederland has huge amounts of talent – and lots of great coaches – but all for naught if you don’t let them do their thing.
No team in their right mind would stay in an Amsterdam hotel for a tournament played in Rome. That’s about the same distance (1300 km) as Oranje traveled for each game back and forth! Certainly would have done them no good.
Al – I don’t think the interviewer meant “cost” in terms of cash. I think he meant “cost” in terms of reputation, confidence, etc.
But I do think KNVB was greedy for catch scheduling those exhibition games.
Bert doesn’t have to go, RvP, Robben and any other rabble-rouser on the team has to go. Everybody wants to replace Bert but with who? There is no one even close to replace him.
Don’t be daft. Our Dutch stars aren’t going anywhere.
What’s daft is putting up with their BS. We can create new stars with the young talent we have that aren’t getting their chance because of these prima – donnas. Persie Vaart and Robben hardly have another tournament in them so its logical to move someone in their place. They will be bench warmers in 2014 anyway
Hard to argue with someone who thinks that three legitimate stars under 30 are ready for the barn.
Guardiola, that’s who.
All though I heard he was really interested in going to Bayern instead. 🙁 There goes my hope of having a head coach who could really take advantage of the talents in the team and make them play real football again.
There’s no way on gods green earth that they will hire a Spanish coach and there is no way the players would respect a spanish coach. Not that they respect a dutch one either LOL
May be that will do the trick, get a foreign coach. They seem to respect the foreign coaches at their respective clubs.
Yeah Guardiola has won 14 trophies in the last 3 years I believe, how many do the Dutch “stars” have to show for it? Spanish head coach is exactly what the national team needs. Eating a piece of the humble pie and what not.
Agree! Pep will be able to say “shut up, b*tch …. Cesc is not even good enough of a starter for me” ….. 🙂
hopefully we will be the youngest team in brazil 🙂
We were the only ones in Group B that played all three games at the Metalist stadium.
The Germans had their 1st game in Lviv, Ukraine which is exactly on the western border of Ukraine with Poland.
2nd game they played us at Kharkiv all the way on the north-eastern part of Ukraine
3rd game versus Denmark was back at Lviv.
That’s a round trip cross country travel and Ukraine is not a small country.
Whenever a large country hosts a match, it is often necessary to travel large distances to different cities.
In our case, it’s just idiotic to not take advantage of the fact that we played all three games at Metalist Stadium and base our players within the city. Unnecessary travelling back and forth does take it’s toll. However, this travel arrangement is not the sole factor of our lack of fitness and stamina. It has a lot to do more with team morale, infighting, lack of desire and hunger to win the games.
you are 150% on the money SamDC. Do you have any idea why we opted for such silly setup?
I thought they chose the hotel in Poland because the final was going to be in Warsaw. My bad, it is in Kiev…
You cannot compare Dutch national team with Barca and Spain for many reasons. Many already pointed that out. KBVB is about money, just like the former Ajax board that JC overthrew. Perhaps JC or someone need to clean KNVB first before we have a decent shot at winning title.
Also of course there’s infighting if your coach is doing something that’s not working and your wasting your vacation.
I’d be ticked off too.
Guys becareful what you wish for in terms of coaching. Some of you in here are just hell bent on sacking BVM that you don’t care who comes in. Don’t take it personal. Yes our team failed but BVM in the end wanted what we all wanted. To win.
He definitely made his share of mistakes. I’m sure in retrospect he would have done things differently. However, he understood more than anything, the weakness of this team.
THIS TEAM JUST HAS A BAD DEFENSE!
He picked his lineup to mitigate that deficiency. It took a lot of guts to change the orthodoxy of Dutch football and try a new style.
Anyways, I hope the KNVB appoint a well known and well respected coach. This is not the time to gamble.
My personal choice would be Guardiola. He wanted to take some time off from day to day management of club football. This would be an excellent opportunity for him as being a national coach gives him time to rest and relax while still leading a team. There’s a lot of shared links between Barcelona and Dutch players over the years. He is a prodigy of Cruyff and understand the philosophy of Dutch football which Barcelona has embraced. So this will not be like appointing a coach that has no understanding of what he is getting into.
I know there’s a lot of pride in Holland about appointing a foreign coach but I have no problem with him if he is indeed our best candidate available and he’s willing to take the job. In the end, what we want is success.
@ Jan, are you taking notes. The Dutch Soccer Site board has spoken… and we want Pep! Can you please relay this message to the KNVB. We are ready for the title…. we want to win trophies… please Jan, make some calls… We vote Pep for Manager of our team!
I’m dreaming for Pep, too.
Given the state of near mutiny on the team, it’s a plus that he’s not a Dutchman.
guys…we can’t afford pep
@Bitterballen
I agree. We need to start taking consensus here on the various issues and talking points. Maybe Jan can set up some polls for us.
As I said in another post,
We gave up 5 goals and were sent packing.
Portugal gave up 4 goals and are through….
Talk about sh&*#t luck
what the hell are you talking about?? Portugal scored 5 goals – we scored two. That’s how you win games.
true but if our defense did enough those 2 might have been enough
Errr, no, you can also make an argument if our offense scored 10, it doesn’t matter if we gave up 5 goals.
It just seems like an endless circle. Why are the Germans so consistent at tournaments? Why are Spain dominating the international stage? Especially with the animosity between Barcelona and Madrid. How do they do it?
They play for the shirt. They play for each other. They play because winning is the most important thing. I think aside from 74′, 78′, 88′ and 2010 we’ve lacked the pride. Most players have it but there are some who don’t. v.Persie would probably like to be top scorer and win the golden boot to show how good he is rather than share a trophy with the other lads (that is speculation of course).
But all we ever hear after a crap tournament is about division and infighting. That is one thing we are consistent at. Until that changes we can make all the managerial changes, trainer/physio changes, player and formation changes. If the whole team (players/staff) aren’t united we’ll have the same result.
you guys make me shake my head. Seriously. Guardiola? He is an excellent coach – Agreed, but do you honestly think KNVB would hire a SPANISH coach and who the PUPIL of Cruyff?
If BvM is out and I expect him to be out – expect someone like Guillit or maybe Bergkamp or even Jaap Stam.
The reason I want BvM to be out is not out of personal vengence, but for the same reason he succeeded in my eyes 2 years ago.
1. He lost his team’s confidence
2. He failed to rejuvinate the team after their WC defeat (there was almost no new players – Willems was out of desperation, nothing more).
3. His pragmatism was limited i.e. for someone who was supposedly “pragmatic”, he was pretty set with his player selection AND his tactics.
4. He was neither proactive nor reactive. He simply didn’t do much when we all knew before hand Mathijssen and Vlaar were not good enough. Van Bommel should not have played in any game.
I defence of Bert, he THOUGHT he had a team of winners, but instead had found out he had a team of whiners. His tactics won’t mean anything if guys like Robben are telling him to keep quiet. So either Robben thinks he’s above tactics or Bert has lost touch with his players.
I’d say a little of both but probably more of a RObben problem.
I agree about replacing Bert with Pep. Are the people sugesting this even fans of Dutch football. Thats rediculous
you guys make me shake my head. Seriously. Guardiola? He is an excellent coach – Agreed, but do you honestly think KNVB would hire a SPANISH coach and who the PUPIL of Cruyff?
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I’m shaking my head as hard. Why not? unless there is some political reasons I’m not aware of. Our coaches are coaching other national teams even freaking England just had Capello until recently.
There are many qualified candidates – I’d probably vote for Frank de Boer or Rijkaard first – but I think Pep is the one that is currently available. Qualified being the keyword here, not nationality.
I for one would love for PEP GUARDIOLA to take over.
People will say it’s embarrassing to have a foreign coach but until Rinus Michaels in 74′, Oranje had foreign managers which included English, Scottish and a German!
OK fine, as an assistant coach but why would Pep go with that. Having him as a head coach is just plain dumb and better left for your fantasy league team
Reading that short interview with the KNVB official, it seems like he wants to keep BVM around. He said that BVM will get a thorough review. Somehow, I have a feeling they want to find scapegoats and blame it on infighting or fitness levels or whatever it is. Maybe, I’m wrong but he doesn’t sound like he’s ready to fire or let BVM go.
I place a lot of the blame on the players. Especially our defense. At the end of the day, BVM can only pick what’s available to him. This is not club football. You don’t go out and buy a player to address a weak spot. It makes it more difficult for national team coaches as the talent pool is limited.
In the end, no matter how much BVM is responsible for this debacle is not the point. It seems like he has lost the trust of a key group of players. It’s better to bring in a new coach and start a blank page and move forward. Someone who can control egos and has the balls to call the shots. That’s why I would like to see Pep. If he can get a team full of superstars to buy into the system and play successfully, that’s exactly what we need for Oranje.
first of all, if it’s any consolation spain waited 44 years before winning a major title after ’64. hopefully we we will in 2-4 years time and this will just be a distant memory…
@SamNY indeed my friend… WTF was MVB doing in our lineup at 35? He was no GIO. How did they expect him to contain young, speedy midfield and CF players?? Not to mention, Stroot did not appear once and he was solid in qualifying…enjoyable to watch. MVB needs to hang them up NOW so we can shift the focus from all the negative energy surrounding the team and honor his effort….
Totally disagree with Gullit, he is a funny guy but Mr ‘Sexy’ football, come on? He couldn’t even coach the LA Galaxy….
Where was Schaars? He should have started at least one game… I thought he was a lock for the Denmark game.
A lot of Bert’s team selection has to do with politics. Could you imagine how the media would react if he selected Narsingh over say Kuyt or even Vaart and in their place took Bas Dost or something. It would be curtains for BvM and he would be more worried his life – let alone his job.
That being said, you need some balls
OranjeBoom Great beer of course, but nederland finally did well when they got their own coaches.
But more practically – why in gods earth would Pep want to coach KNVB?
And if you were yelled at by your countrymen,maybe it’s better to retire from the National side?
(If I were the rep for either Van P and Robben i’d tell him – you can’t do both- the club is paying you, KNVB not so much.)
A Spaniard?
In charge of us Dutch? Hehehe!
We may swear allegiance to the King Of Spain in our national anthem, but that’s as far as it goes.
By ‘we’, you can exclude me.
I don’t want Guardiola anywhere near our team. Thank you.
If you think he can get Holland playing like Barca then you are suffering sunstroke. That style of football is the result of daily training sessions and regular league play, not sporadic training camps and occasional matches.
We need a strong manager, determined to play our DUTCH way, who suffers no fools, and who can get the best out of our ‘team’ in the few days a year that they are together.
He needs to speak Dutch first and foremost. He needs to be part of the old school philosophy to gain the respect of the players, and must favour attacking play.
It’s no knee jerk reaction.
We have seen Bert running our old lions into the ground over the last two years. It’s time to re-evaluate.
And anyone thinking for a second that Spain or Germany actually play 4231 need to buy some glasses. They line up that way, but they certainly don’t stick to it. They play with one holding midfielder, often on rotation.
We must go back to 433 – which offers the second most triangles (possession) per system after 343.
I would opt for De Boer, Rijkaard, or Hiddink to take over when Bert is inevitably and rightfully relieved of his post. Cheers Bert. I will always remember your fluffy white hair in 2010. Now step aside please.
The primary duty of the new manager will be to rebuild our defence.
With a sturdy defensive back 4, the rest of the team will take care of itself.
The secondary duty is to rid the team of any malingering egos. We win nothing with individuals – and we are embarrassed when those individuals don’t even get on with each other.
@ Oranje Moose Knuckle: “The primary duty of the new manager will be to rebuild our defence.
With a sturdy defensive back 4, the rest of the team will take care of itself.”
I totally disagree. The ENTIRE team did not function. If only the back 4 sucked, we would have won and scored goals despite getting goals scored against us. We would have won 3-1 against Denmark, 3-2 against Germany, and maybe tied Portugal. Please stop repeating what the media has hypothesized: Oranje’s only problem is its weak defense. Why couldn’t we score in our friendlies against the Swiss and the Germans? We went scoreless in these 2 games! Our offense seem to show up ONLY due to individual heroics by some players: see the 2 goals we scored. They were nothing close to a team play. Now if you call the assist that Van Persie got before shooting from 20+ meters a team play, I won’t argue with you. A team play is something like the German 1st goal.
You are free to disagree, of course.
I think you should perhaps look at little deeper at the reasoning behind your observations – and not just at the observations themselves.
Also, any talk of ‘would have’ or ‘could have’ is entirely irrelevant in a civilised debate.
‘Please stop repeating what the media has hypothesized: Oranje’s only problem is its weak defense.’
Haha! Perhaps, it’s only you that has the rather generalised and limited view then?
Our team has problems throughout – but many of them start at the back. Our offensive play can be more fruitful if the team isn’t so stretched to cover the lack of confidence at the rear. It’s there for all to see. The media, myself, and even you, my friend 😉
Chin up. We’ll be back.
@ Oranje Moose Knuckle. We had the same defensive players as in WC 2010. We miss Gio now, but not that he was Stam! Our defense got a bit worse, bit our midfield and offense got way worse. In WC 2010 the media said the same crap about our defense. The difference between now and then is that back in the WC we scored goals. One more than our oponents. Some goals were individual efforts and some were group efforts. In the WC, we scored 12 goals in 7 games. That’s almost 2 goals per game. This EC we scored almost half a goal per game. Go do the math and think about this for a bit.
Exactly. It is easy to criticize the back four-and they weren’t good (nervous, frightened play). But CLEARLY there were big problems in midfield, too, and while we are talented up front, there is little chemistry. I think the manager was right to start RVP over Hunter, but in any case they both play the same position and cannot play together cohesively, as we saw in the last game when RVP was moved back and seemed lost.
Guys, check this out… PLAYERS back BVM:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/dutch-squad-backs-van-marwijk-152128831.html
Of course they do! Under BVM no-one else gets a game. These prima-donnas are assured of their positions.
Also, don’t believe everything you read on the net 😉
knvb cannot afford Pep Guardiola… even if he wanted to come to our small wet country lol… bert makes about one fifth or one sixth of what Pep made..
@dutch dream
knvb cannot afford Pep Guardiola… even if he wanted to come to our small wet country lol… bert makes about one fifth or one sixth of what Pep made..
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At his level, money is probably less of an issue than legacy. He has made his marks with Barca, if he’s able to achieve victories with the Oranje, that will be much more of an achievement.
@ dutch dream:
Which is funny because Spain is broke and Holland actually has a “decent” economy and doesnt need a bailout…Spain spends 60% of its GDP in soccer, between Real Madrid and its 100 million dollar signings and Barcelona…
Would you not love it if FIFA and UEFA installed sanctions against the PIGS!
That should absolutely happen!
No matter what BVM would have done, this group prima donnas was destined for failure- because they chose to do so. BVM did what every one asked for: bench Kuyt, bench MVB, play Hunter, play Van Persie as #10, play Afelaay, play VDV, and they still sucked. The faster we all realize that the players are over-hyped and had bigger egos than skills, the easier to accept the early exit. No one seemed to care after the first 20 minutes in EACH of the 3 games. You may ask why they only played well the first 20 minutes of each game and the first few minutes after half time. My theory is this. It is because of BVM pep talk. He prepared the team to go after a win. Despite the team’s fucked up mentality, his tactics worked in the beginning of the matches. But as time went on, reality set-in and his words and tactics faded away. The players returned to their TRUE self, a bunch of losers with NO fighting spirit. ALL teams in this Euro that were down kept fighting till the end. I remember Oranje quitting 15 minutes before the end of the game against Denmark. WTF? They just accepted the defeat and stopped running or pressuring the opponent. I saw BVM livid on the sidelines shouting and screaming, but no one cared. Now don’t tell me this is his fault. You can take the horse to the river, but you can’t force it to drink!
Bergkamp is still a youth coach, plus he does not fly (so Brazil WC 2014 may be difficult). Gullit, well he has not done enough to be selected. Marco, well he had his chance and I do not think he wants to do this again. Gio and Cocu,they are not ready. I do not know what Stamp is doing. Guardiola, no he will not coach Holland. I may see him succeeding Del Bosque to be Spain national team coach. I seriously say no to Advocaat, Van Gaal, Hiddink, Adrianne. I think Rijkaard or Frank De Boer is the best bet if you want to see Oranje playing 4-3-3 and back to what we love to see. We may not succeed to win WC 2014 but I think we can surprise other teams. This is if KNVB decides to let Bert go. It is hard to read what KNVB and Bert are thinking now. They may give it a try with the qualification. However, if the same squad is picked and the infighting is true, we may not even qualify for WC. If I read this correctly, there are 2 camps and Bert failed to unite the team? This tells me that he failed as a coach. He should make the players believe in the strategy/system that he chooses.
Jan, will you be able to post what Dutch newspaper/magazines, TV analysts, JC, Van Hanegem, said?
@ Hien:
I agree with you on Gullit, come on, this guy is as big a flop as a coach as we have seen!
Are there any PSV fans out there who can vouch that Koeman is not the man for the job? Come on!
I think we need Frank to stay at Ajax, as much as I am a PSV fan, I respect that a strong Ajax and Feyenoord = strong national team.
That leaves Rijkaard, who i think would be a great option. I agree we need a strong personality, not to mention a winner. Barca is where it is at today in large part due to him.
@ Bitterballen and SamNY. I find it funny that everyone is bashing BVM choice to play our captain MVB who had an amazing season with AC Milan and was a starter in most important games despite his age. I still remember everyone praising MVB on this same blog a few months ago. MVB lack of mobility was only ONE of the reasons we lost. Almost ALL the players were as static- even the ones who were supposed to be “explosive” and dynamic.
Also, everyone keeps singing the same song that we lost due to our defense. In reality, our defense was only one reason we lost. Our ENTIRE team sucked. Midfield and offense didn’t do their job properly. End of story. The kept losing the ball allowing the other teams to counter-attack and score. Just look at the 2nd Portugal goal and witness your beloved attacking heroes losing the ball right in front of the Portuguese defense, never tracking back to defend, and allowing a quick counter attack and a goal by Portugal.
And for those calling to play Strootman, he had a dismal season with PSV in a shitty league. MVB was a better choice given his experience and playing at a top club in a top league. Arguably he played the best among all AC Milan players against Barca this year! Stop kidding yourselves. Whomever BVM would have played, people will say: he should have played X instead of Y. He played the BEST talent he had. And they SUCKED. Period. It is NOT his fault that they sucked. They are simply NOT as good as people think they are. Not as a team at least. If it is time for something, it is time to bring in FRESH new faces and keep a few of the old guard. Get rid of ANY ONE who complains and/or under-performs.
whoa whoa…Strootman sucked? I watched just about every PSV game, he did not have a “dismal” season…and what does the league matter?
PSV played like the NT, without life, etc. He was part of a bad environment. But without him the team would have been much worse.
How can you rate his season as dismal? Can you provide me with examples? Certain games? If i am wrong i am wrong, but i watched about 80% of their games this year…and i disagree.
@ Paul. Maybe we watched different games then. Strootman was not the spectacular messiah with PSV. The entire team sucked and Strootman was part of that. MVB had a much better season with AC Milan. It is true he under-performed in the EC, but any wise man would have chosen his experience and his good performance throughout the season over Strootman. Also remember that when BVM noticed that he was not performing up to the expectations, he subbed VDV instead of him and he started VDV the last game instead of him. So it is not that BVM did NOTHING to circumvent the issues as every one claims. Its the fact that even our bench didn’t step up when they had the chance. This includes Hunter, VDV, Vlaar, Afelaay.
@ Overmars:
There is a difference between having a “dismal season” and not being a “spectacular messiah”, dont you agree?
A player can only be as good as those teamates who play around him…example, Messi scoring 70 million goals with Barca and very few for Argentina…example # 2, RVP with NT v. arsenal, example #3, KJH with Schalke v this Orange.
Note that when orange was playing well, he scored like it was his job…
@ Paul. I partially agree. I still don’t think Strootman performed better than MVB for him to be granted a starting role. I’m simply not impressed with him as a player.
A truly good player can still perform when his team is not. He can create something out of nothing. A truly great player can still score goals when it matters. I never regarded KJH as a great player despite scoring many goals for Schalke and Oranje. He NEVER scored in an important game. End of story. He is a poacher. Scoring against San Marino is something and in the group of death is something else. He is a player with limited technical abilities. He is NO Kluivert, Bergkamp, or RVN. I will never forget how he missed a one-on-one with Brazil in the last WC. The most bizarre miss ever.
I was also a big fan of Affellay when he was at PSV and the team was pretty much built around him. He was a monster in the midfield…but not as a winger, we had Dzudsak as our winger.
He needs to be used as CAM or CDM, not on the wings. Yes he has fancy footwork, but he is no CR7 or Robben circa 2005…i think Narsingh should have been brought in.
@ OVermars:
I tend to agree on MVB, he did have a good season and my main issue was the defense…while you are right defense was not the only problem, our attacks from the back were non-existent.
Look at all of the good teams, they build it from the back…our boys are afraid to push up at all, and actually look SCARED in possession….is this Dutch football? Defender scared with the ball??
MvB played a lot of games for a 35 year old this year. That was my point. I was all for 4-1-4-1 with NDJ as the sole holding midfielder. Hungary put 3 goals past us in qualifications that’s when the alarms should have went off.
I am all for change in charge of Oranje. The players lost confidence in the manager. The players were not prepared physically, mentally or tactically. The team logistics were assinine. All blame must fall at the feet of the manager.
Therefore, BVM is OUT.
However, in no way shape or form do I want a Spaniard in charge of the team. NO WAY. Not even a JC diciple!
How about Rijkaard assisted by Gio, Stam and Bergkamp?
Your thoughts?
I beg to disagree. There are NO better choices at the moment than Bert. I’d say the players that did not support him and put their egos above the team are OUT. They should not even be allowed on the bench. This includes Robben and Van Persie.
While I like Rijkaard, he under-achieved in EC 2000. Failing to prepare the team to take penalties against a team known for the defensive play (Italy) is unacceptable. Missing 5 penalties in 1 game is BEYOND bad luck. It is bad preparation. Also, his coaching choices recently has been questionable.
Wow Overmars, dude – you’re disagreeing with a LOT of people tonight huh?
It might help your cause if you add some weight to your arguments, maybe. Some evidence. Maybe some stats. I dunno. Maybe whilst researching your claims you may wish to reassess them even? You never know…. 🙂 You think it out.
Hahaha, Oranjerules is spot on when he says the blame lies with the manager. He picked the players. He picked the system. Both broke down. End of debate.
The best “stat” is to go watch the games. I’ve watched each and every single Oranje game (including the so-called meaningless friendlies). I’ve watched most club season games involving oranje players. The coach picked the players he thought would deliver. None of the moaners on this blog would have had the balls to drop the big names in favor of the not-so famed players. There is NO reason to do so unless the big names did NOT perform? Do you agree? Now that the big names did NOT perform, it is time to drop them once and for all. Simple logic. You don’t change a working system or a winning formula? Would you take such risk? The team crumbled from within.
Guardiola forget it. In any case he is nothing special outside the Barca system. If you think he can repeat his success with another club, youre dreaming. And I bet that his assistant will be as successful because Barca is about a structured system not about individuals.
De Boer should remain at Ajax. He can be more beneficial to Dutch football in that role … for now. There are many options and my preferred ones are Rijkaard, Hiddink and I’m tempted big time to say give 2nd chance to Van Gaal !
Can you imagine Van Gaal lifting the WC after final with Germany ? PRICELESS 🙂
hahaha I see it
´who is the best team in the world?
who is better than germany?
come on louis take this bunch of weary sissies and build a fighting team out of them!
@ OVermars:
Also, I agree MVB should have started in the tournament over Strootman, but after his dismal performances, why start him against Germany? He himself admitted he was responsible for the first goal…
PArt of being a good coach is making proper adjustments. Was going to a three person defense against portugal wise? Not putting on a true winger? Why not take off De Jong, put on Strootman, Narsingh and Schaars, taking off Robben and Willems? ANYTHING…he instead made a huge tactical blunder.
@ Paul. As I said in my previous post, whatever BVM would have done, it won’t be enough for some of you. Everyone would say: he should have played X instead of Y. I agree that MVB shouldn’t have started against Germany but I didn’t think he played terrible against Denmark. He was alright in that game. When BVM saw he did a poor job against the Germans, he subbed him out at half time. Didn’t wait till 70’th minute as he used to do, which says something.
Also, I would NEVER take De Jong out and put Strootman in. De Jong was out best player. He fought and was dynamic when everyone else was static and scared. Some may argue that De Jong was benched a number of games with City this year. But I’ve noticed a clear patterns in many of the games he did not start. The moment he came in (around 60’th minute) City scored and tied or won their games, despite being down while he was benched. Go and check these facts for yourself if you don’t believe me. I guess De Jong’s presence allowed some players to roam more freely on the offense, knowing that their back won’t be exposed.
As for putting a true winger, what do you call Robben? I bet if Robben was benched for Narsingh, BVM would have been crucified. Many on this blog thought Schaars was a more conservative choice and Willems brought more to our offense. Remember, you can ONLY field 11 players at once. I still believe BVM used the best talent he had at the time.
The “what if” game can be played all day long if you wish, but the most important “what if” among all is this: What if the PLAYERS lived up to their hype and “prestige” and performed as we all expected? What if they scored the goals they should have scored? What if they played with guts and determination? What if they focused on the game instead of giving stupid interviews? What if they played tough instead of focusing on “looking tough” (Heitinga and VDW)? These are the right questions to ask- not what if BVM played Narsingh instead of Robben!
I tend to agree – I was angry at Bert when we were eliminated, but in hindsight he did try to do what he could, and people are now criticising him when they might have done the same. In fact, if anything, I think Bert was too willing to listen to public opinion, and it did not work.
We were creating chance after chance against Denmark, but after he brought on VDV and Huntelaar (what most people on this site seemed to want), we looked more disjointed and created far fewer chances. He tried Huntelaar, with RVP Sneijder and Robben behind, again what people wanted, and that didn’t work. VDV as holding midfielder didn’t work either – apart from his goal and one other shot on target, he was anonymous against Portugal. And Robben did play as a “proper winger” when he switched to the left against Portugal.
Now it seems that we could have done with a player who ran and defended from the front like Kuyt – you know, the guy that everyone was calling to be dropped for someone like Afellay, who was ineffectual all tournament.
As for the defence, well it’s obvious that was our weak point going into the tournament. But that was our weakness in Euro 2008 and WC2010, and in qualifying too. Against Brazil, we played a 37 year old uncontracted Andre Ooijer! Obviously Gio was a loss, but he was no Stam or De Boer. Perhaps it wasn’t just that our defence was weak, but rather that our defence was constantly criticised for being weak, which meant that, as a team, we trusted the defence less, which led to us being too static, then going behind and having to chase the game, which led to our downfall.
@ Versus. Thank you! I’m not the only one who feel this way.
for the record, I don’t want a non-Dutch coach. Happel did take us to the final in ’78, but these days we are a footballing powerhouse : we provide coaches for other national teams, not the other way round.
Happel built Feyenoord of the late 60s which was the precursor to all good things of the 70s… He was not Dutch but he was close 🙂
that’s too bad, since given the main problem lies with attittude and egos, a foreign coach could have really introduced a new culture of togetherness this team desperately needs! To be picky about the nationality of the coach in the year 2012 is not fashionable:)
I vote for Rikjaard assited by Cocu and Gio and Ronald de Boer!!!
One of the problmes were our midfield. De Jong and MVB build up and speed. That´s why I want to see the new orange playing with Clasie on that spot.
Sneijder-Clasie-Maher (Anita, Fer on the bench. Affelay can play instead maher too) Strootman as full back, but constantly goin up.
I think will be interesting if we began to spoke about the “new orange”
Who is Sneijder talking about: “the player who is leaking to the press about our tactical plans before matches”?
My guess is Bouma. He made some comment before the tournament about being the best option for the LB position. He has delusions of grandeur and maybe wanted somebody to think he is important. Some reporter probably stroked his ego and he became the source. Somebody check his cell phone records!
If Guardiola comes in Huntelaar wouldn’t even make the squad. Guardiola hates strikers like him who offer nothing to the build up.
We have to think about the skills required for a coach over the next two years. The coach will have two main objectives:
1. Rebuilding the team around most of the current stars because there is no way that we can play with the young players being mentioned in the next WC. This will entail some important changes in midfield and defense. It is also about finding a new formation and a system that can bring back glory without sacrificing the Dutch brand. Not easy.
2. Gradually inserting younger players by giving them quality playing time. I’m thinking about Narsingh, Maher, John, Clasie any others. They will be part of the WC team … some of them possibly in the starting eleven. They will definitely be the backbone of the team in EC16.
So who has the skills to do that ? Not an easy task.
regarding: This business about being received by angry fans at the airport…
I realize it was a very tough group, but you didn’t even come home with a point…
What do you expect…a teary eyed kid welcoming you open-armed with tulips and chocolate to ease your pain?!
Common man…these guys should grow up. Instead of banishing the angry fans, simply look at your own game.
@ J. Good point. Not that the team gave it all in their 3 losses. Not that they fought all the way and lost due to penalties, luck, etc. They simply sucked. They self-imploded. They shocked the world by their performance. Any one trying to find an excuse for them is blind. We had more shots than Denmark on goal, we traveled a long distance for every game, we should have had 2 penalties against Denmark, bla bla bla. Excuses, excuses, excuses. I’ve seen my beloved oranje lose before. I’ve seen the losses in WC 1998 and EC 2000. I’ve seen the ugly loss in WC 2006. In all of these losses, the team fought really hard. They seemed to care. This was a different kind of loss 🙁
Totally agree. Except for those brief spell at the beginning of each game, they did not seem to care.
me three. and if some of our guys had one year too many burdening their shoulders, some seem to have one party too many …
BvM granted all the requests made publicly, and the team still failed.
Wes has become the new VdV. 5-10 mins here and there…
I don’t blame BVM for our exit more than I blame the players.
With that said, it seems like he has already lost the trust and respect of a core of players. It’s just betterif he steps aside and let someone start a new page of Oranje history. Any coach that takes his team to a WC final deserves respect and I’m sure he’ll land a good coaching position.
We just don’t have players that can takeover from RVP, Sneijder etc…They have to prove themselves at the club level. Some of these young talents you guys like to talk about don’t even have a single cap for Oranje. They have to first start on the bench get playing time and slowly take over. This is not trial by fire. We cannot afford to miss out on 2014 qualification after this debacle. It would be a huge blow to Oranje football.
These current team needs a slow but steady transition. We need a coach that will mend fences and the best out of these guys. A month ago all these players were performing at the top level. Their talent just doesn’t evaporate into thin air.
Alex: Any new about witch central back are looking for Ajax to replace Vergthongen?
I hope they sing Gouweleeuw or Nuytinck to make partnership with Ricardo van Rhijn. It will be nice for Orange!
The margin of error is small as you have only 3 games, not like qualification. Losing the first game (a must win) put tremendous pressure. The coach and the team failed to raise to the occasion (as some said, Spain lost the first game then went on to win the WC). The mentality, fitness, unity is not there. It is the whole team + coach. Too many little mistakes added up. There is no player performing consistently well every game, good/fair one game, bad the next. No luck this time (opponent’s own goal). In 2010 midfielders and defenders also scored when the forwards did not. Not this time. When goal is hard to come you can win by 1-0 but not with the defense we had. Yes, we blame the whole group but the biggest responsibilities/blames still go to the coach. He did a good job in 2010 (I give most credits to him) but not this time. Qualified this Euro with a good record, yes, but it is not a good test. We are contender and expect to do well (at least semi-final). I think it is time to change. I admit it is a bit early for Frank De Boer and even Koeman. I also agree the questionable choice of Rijkaard’s coaching choice since he left Barca. Unfortunately there is no better candidate.
BvM must be sacked no matter what. This is biggest flop in Holland’s soccer history. Even if it is all players’ fault BvM must go, immediately. I don’t care who comes next, hopefully someone good but it would be a travesty for Bert to stay.
Whoever comes will do much better than this disgrace.
@ Balkan. Unless you’re a new oranje fan, may I remind you that the BIGGEST flop in Holland’s soccer history was not qualifying to WC 2002, with a team of REALLY talented players that almost played the previous Euro 2000 final.
@Eduardo,
between Gouweleeuw, Nuytinck and Van Rhijn, who has the most potential?
Van Rhijn, Stam is a big fan of him.
wow…imbrahimovic goal…wow…one of the best goals you will ever see…
@Balkan,
do you really not care who comes in as coach? Do you remember 2002 WC qualification?
I agree, I think BVM should go. I liked him as a coach. He wanted to be realistic and play more conservatively to protect the defense but in the end, we need a new coach who needs to start fresh and unite the team.
However, I don’t want to change BVM, just for the sake of changing. Unless we have an able and known replacement, I’m not in the mood for someone to learn on the job. Qualification should be the 1st priority here.
@SamDC. The argument that we don’t have anyone better than Bert is really ridiculous. How do you measure one’s performance? Under his direction we had the biggest disaster in history of football. How come this guy is the best we have?! Then we shouldn’t even try cause we’re doomed.
When Bert was chosen 4 years ago many people didn’t even know him. Worst comes to worst I would give Van Gaal another chance if JC doesn’t want anything to do with it.
Let’s see what you are saying:
>Under his direction we had the biggest disaster in history of football.
according to you not qualifying for 82/84/86/02 is less disaster 🙂
>Even if it is all players’ fault BvM must go, immediately
now, that makes a lot of sense !
🙂 🙂 🙂
Demi, you can be all ironic but the fact is that in sports you don’t sack a team you sack the management team. It is the coach who changes tactics and policies according to players’ attitudes and capabilities. If Bert knew that players were sabotaging him and did nothing makes him double guilty.
I am just in favor of logic and have nothing personal against you. Having seen the disasters of the 80s (these were real disasters), I am against “act now think later” type of reactions.
To be honest, in the poll I voted for Bert to stay but if you present some reasonable arguments I can change my mind.
The issue is with some posts, and please don’t take this personally, is that they are very emotional.
Remember how many folks here said “Dirk has to stop playing in the starting 11″… Well, guess what? Same folks said “mmm that was a mistake”.
Do you want to “react” to a failure or you want to sit back and think?
We certainly have a serious problem of great magnitude. How about we give some thought to it?
you still disagree ?
AND, in 82,84,86 we didn’t even have half the quality of players we have today. We never lost 3 games in a row in a tournament and never left without a point as far as I know.
Demi, thanks for clarifying. It is true that I am emotional for obvious reasons and I agree that in such state one cannot make the right decisions. But I have had my concerns about Bert since a long time. I personally hated how we played in WC 2010 however for the sake of success I supported Bert. He was a big part of it. Success heals anything. However this curb of deterioration did not start at EC12 finals it had started a long time ago. I see him very stubborn and not willing to change. The insertion of a very young 18 year old coupled with the persistence of keeping exactly the rest of same 11 that played the WC at a time when most of them were out of shape were another big question mark. Tactics, substitutions, not involving and developing some new replacements on defense etc. all add to my question marks towards him. If the players betrayed him and did not leave it all out in the field then they must have had a reason for doing so. That’s another thing to be clarified. To top it all his treatment of RvP made me sick, it seemed to me like RvP was God to him. There are many more reasons that others have described here more eloquently than me.I find it very, very difficult at his age to change things dramatically and a dramatic change is needed to get out of this mess. How does a team go from vice world champion to almost bottom of the EC 2 years later?!?
The players cannot be sacked, most of them are good. I also refuse to believe that there are no capable dutch coaches out there. Keeping Bert is keeping the status quo. With or without Bert the team will make it to Brasil, the issue is will it make it. I don’t trust him in the longer term. I respect him a lot but he doesn’t bring anything to this team anymore.
wow…france defending looks in disarray
Ibra goal was fantastic. Too bad it came too late to save Sweden.
If these results hold, it would be Spain vs France and England vs Italy in the next game.
I’m sure France will score. Blanc needs to bring in Jeremy Menez and Marvin Martin. I don’t know why he bring Malouda.
oh that was a goal for ukraine!
wow…ukraine incorrectly ruled not to have a goal…that ball went over the line for sure!!!
the freakin ref is standing right there!!!! thats his job!!! unreal.
one thing that upsets me watching all these games is how every team fought the entire time…Sweden is fighting even though they were eliminated!!
We didnt fight when we still had a chance.
As has been said here, losing after putting in a great effort is fine, but the way our boys did it is not fine.
@ Paul. Exactly my same thoughts! It makes me so sad to see all the top footballing nations make it to the quarter finals: Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England, but NOT Oranje! The irony is that Germany kept its end of the deal and defeated the Danes. We couldn’t beat freakin Portugal, while we were up by 1-0. Now don’t tell me that was the coach’s fault. His tactics were clear from the beginning. Put extreme pressure and voila they scored 1-0 in the first 10 minutes. However, the players simply didn’t have the fighting spirit in them. Despite the coach yelling and jumping on the sidelines, they just didn’t care. You can take the horse to the river, but you can’t force him to drink. BVM took the boys to the EC, but he couldn’t force them to deliver. It was too late when he discovered this sad reality. If he stays as a coach (and I hope so as there are NO better alternatives), I wish he drops ANY player who was part of this shameful display- no exceptions.
We should all respect and rejoice in what BVM accomplished 2 years ago. That is in the past and I like many other thought we had a chance in this tournament. But now its time for BVM to go and bring in a new voice (one with a better training staff and a team manager that owns a map).
Assaidi could be a good Orange player
http://www.vi.nl/nieuws/223062/Assaidi-El-Ahmadi-en-Amrabat-maken-kans-op-Spelen.htm
Assaidi plays with Morocco.
With all these talks about potential replacements of BvM, keeping BvM, maybe we can all reach a consensus if KNVB just appoints our Jan as the new boss of the Oranje? 🙂
Sweden just scored. That’s playing for your fans. Giving your best till the last whistle.
Maybe we need to bring more defenders through naturalization like Douglas. If he turns out a success, no reason why we shouldn’t do more of it.
Maybe we need to bring more defenders through naturalization like Douglas. If he turns out a success, no reason why we shouldn’t do more of it.
—-
This is working great for Germany lately …. maybe Holland should give Cacao (who got left out by the Germans) a citizenship …. 🙂
How many more teams will get disqualified because suites refuse to implement GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY?
@Balkan,
Do you want Van Gaal again? I wouldn’t want him anywhere near Oranje in any capacity. Especially with this defense that we have. It’s just out of the question.
You also misunderstood what I said. I said that we need to be careful who comes in. I am convinced BVM should go so that we get a fresh start and mend fences. All I said is that we need a coach with a proven track record. Someone who has won at the top level, has the personality to control egos and bring out the best from the players we have. I never said BVM is the best we can do.
No, but at this low point even he would do a better job with the current crop of players. Don’t forget experience as well.
Nice article here on Jeffrey Gouweleew
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/look-out-for-jeffrey-gouweleeuw-the-dutch-pique/
very good SamDC, ty.
Any rumor about Gouweleeuw? He is looking for a new team? maybe Ajax?
Bolton was watching him in decemeber, Ajax is heavy interested because vertoghen is leaving. Also PSV, and twente are interested in him. but he might stay because van basten
must read hilarious take on the future
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1049/Oranje/article/detail/3273084/2012/06/18/Koeman-neemt-Van-der-Wiel-Kuyt-en-De-Jong-niet-mee-naar-Brazilie.dhtml?show=react
in the future ronald koeman is coach and this is the team he selected for the world cup in brazil
Keepers
Krul (starter) (chelsea)
Stekelenburg (as Roma)
Vorm (tottenham)
Defense
Stefan de Vrij (Feyenoord)
Ricardo Van Rhijn (ajax)
Douglas Teixeira (at inter)
Johnny Heitinga (liverpool)
Nick Viergever (AZ)
Jetro Willems (PSV)
Emanuelson (AC Milan)
Midfield
Jordy Classie (Feyenoord)
Vurnon Anita (ajax)
Wesley Sneijder (manchester city)
Kevin Strootman (psv)
Adam Mahar (valencia)
Robin Van Persie (arsenal)
Ibrahim Afellay (arsenal)
Attackers
Ola John (benfica)
Luciano Narsingh (ajax)
Klaas Jan-Huntelaar (manchester united)
Luuk de jong (borussia Dortmund)
Arjen Robben (Bayern munich)
Derk Boereigter (Ajax)
I kind of felt i was reading the future, Van der wiel, Pieters, Nigel De Jong, kuyt all gone from the team.
————————-Krul————————————————-Douglas—————-De Vrij ——————–Van Rhijn———————————————-Viergever?————————–Clasie? Or Anita?———————————Sneijder—————————Afellay—————-Robben——————————————–Boereighter?————————-Van Persie——————————–
shit my line-up got messed up
Pretty much
GK:krul
Centerbacks: Douglas, De Vrij
Left/Right backs: Van rhijn, Viergever
Midfield: Clasie, Sneijder, Afellay
Attack: Robben, Van Persie, Boereighter
i’m assuming he would be feyenoord heavy on the team, If not strootman should be instead of clasie (not ready)
Boereighter is no Oranje material in my humble opinion .
the same goes with narsingh .
and the midfeild is not balanced with a DMF like strootman , de jong or fer .
also i think Pieters should play in the new defensive line we’re going to play with .
Without a DMF *
this isn’t my team, it was from the article, they had ronald koeman’s lineup like a prediction of the future, and from that squad i picked a team to start by just guessing, Not actually what I would pick
If it was up to me i would have pieters as left back, and see whos in form, and if van der wiel improves and regains what he once had, his experience could give him the nod over van rhijn
and with boereighter dude is awesome, did you see him in champions league, two footed, and great. too bad siem de jong couldn’t put a head on his crosses, or an accurate head on them, if not, ajax would have been different result in champions league
it’s so sad we’re the team who got ZERO points in the group stage 😐
Sweeden , Ukraine , Russia , Croatia and Denmark they all got eliminated but all of them played better football than us .
@Mohammed
Ireland lost all three points and conceded 8 goals while scoring 1.
I disagree with you on Narsingh. He is definitely not ready yet to take over from Robben on the right side but he has a lot of potential. I read an article about him a couple of days ago which said that he had the most assists in the Eredivise last season. It may or may not be accurate I don’t know. I have seen him play a couple of games for Heerenveen and that Bayern Munich game he started for Oranje. I wouldn’t write him off.
I don’t know much about Boereighter. I can’t comment on him.
Sam yes its true, Narsingh was the one with the most asissts and made Dost topscorer.
Before this euro I had hoped we would play with this midfield:
Anita Sneijder Strootman/deJong Maher
A very dynamic, young midfield. (this probably would have been deadly with our defense. But would they have done so much worse than we did?)
Front I was hoping for: Robben Hunter Narsingh
But when Bert dropped first Urby then Maher Anita, it was clear bert did not want innovations. I will always be wondering why Bert did not try it this Euro.
@Dutch Dream,
did you really expect we would flop this bad? I mean coming into this tournament, our ambition was to win the whole tournament and end years of disappointment. This was supposed to be a stepping stone to the WC trophy.
With the exception of a few doubters or haters, most people believed that we would at least manage to get through the group stages.
I don’t think BVM really thought these players were going to turnout this bad. He went with proven players instead of gambling with the likes of Anita, Maher etc…
What if he chose to start those players and we lost all three games? The whole Dutch nation would have said that he left the likes of RVP, VDV, Robben etc…what do you expect?
My biggest issue with him is why he didn’t give these guys enough chances during qualification and friendlies.
He subs his players too late into the game where they don’t have enough time or chances to make an impact.
I really don’t blame him for playing 4-2-3-1. We all saw how bad Mathijsen, Vlaar, Bouma and Heitinga were.
But anyways, it’s time to go for him. I wish him all the best. He got us to WC final which will be his legacy. We haven’t achieved that since 78. Let’s look to the future and hope we will find an able replacement.
@ SamDC & Dutch Dream :
I respect your opinions about Narsingh .
He is a good player , his style resembles players like lennon , shaun-wright philips . i just don’t think this style can be a starter with Ornaje , hopefully he proves me wrong .
perhaps he’ll become more important to Oranje than Robben one day .
Sam, I had included robben in my lineup and vd Vaart would be sub 🙂
And no I had not expected this, but two weeks before the euro when Bert dropped anita maher and Urby I wrote in our blog that I was preparing for the worst. Esspecially when I understood vPersie was again to be the no 9 for Bert, after 2 failed tournements…
After the NIreland game I got hopeful but when denmark made us suffer and watching this truggling team that was supposed to be at its peak.
I just had hoped bert would have expereinced and innovated a little bit more.
Maybe it was too early, , the euro came too early for VRhijn, Narsingh, Gouweleeuw, Viergever, Dijks, de Vrij.
But we had Maher. He was ready and in great form all season.
@Mohamed Narsingh is no robben , has no ego issues, but if he gives 6 good crosses per game on Hunter thats what we needed this euro. He did it against Bayern his first cap. He is very fast, he is not selfish, he could be like vhSchip.
@Dutch Dream,
his mistake was not giving all these guys meaningful chances during qualifying. There were enough games available for him to sub one of these players and give them 30 mins or so. Just to see how they handle the situation.
He put all his chips in on the regulars. When the regulars failed or started second guessing him, he had nowhere to turn.
If he wanted, he could have set up a friendly game or two where he didn’t call up any of the big names. Find a decent team that they can play to see how they perform.
´He put all his chips in on the regulars. When the regulars failed or started second guessing him, he had nowhere to turn.´
Thats true. Its strange cos knowing vmarwijk the knvb knew when they hired him, it is not in the nature of vmarwijk to innovate. Why did they gave him 4 years when they knew the team had to be rebuild soon? Now they are in a pickle because it will cost them a lot of money to buy off his long term contract. Knowing the Knvb like we do they hate to lose money lol it could be they will let him continue, as there are so few options around. In 3 weeks Knvb will ´evaluate´ vmarwijk and then we know more.
I’ve read that Boerrigter is no oranje material, I totally disagree.
I was totally impressed when I saw him against Real (Ramos was against him), he always owned him, and so did he against Lyon.
Boerrigter is fast, very good at 1vs1 and give powerful and dangerous assists from his side. And he scores quite much for a winger.
I trust such players he is really efficient in his play.
I like FdB as a coach , very promising . I just think he should stay for two more seasons with Ajax and play the CL and gain some coaching experience .
my first option is Foppe de Haan . he can deal with players , win trophies and play fantastic football .
Co adrianse , verbeek can be good options too .
not sure if Raijkard can come to Oranje .
Van gaal and hiddink are great coaches but i don’t want to see them with Oranje anymore .
I’m afraid knvb will continue with Marwijk , just like france with Dominech 😕
2006 success , 2008 failure and 2010 tragedy .
I hope i’m mistaken .
Yes I would have take boerrighter as sub for robben on the left.
If you have robben/boerrighter on the left and Narsingh on the right you have 10, 12 good crosses per game, and this is our style! Both Persie or Hunt would flourish.
And just like Urby Anita and maher , Boerrighter and Narsingh played a good reasonable seaon, urby even at ac milan.
OT gossip: there has been new info on dutch TV channel NOS, that vd vaart wanted to depart already in Honederloo, in the Netherlands prep, after a clash on the field with..vPersie. This happened in front of vmarwijk.
Staff talked with Vaart for hours to persuade him to stay.
Something was very wrong ,so much discontent, it will all come out.
It was also said (by rather infamous journo) Heitinga wife who works for a tv program leaked to the press and this caused serious problems in the team, this I dont know if its true or not. It was said he was not in the Portugal game after this…if this is true vmarwijk had serious problems all around.
I begin to pity him, he was in a snake pit with overpaid egotistical diva´s.
.
really… what a pity and all along i wondered why heitinga was withdrawn from that game…
I wanted to ask : Is there some parts on this blog for dutch league ? I used to talk about it on some french threads but we aren’t much and it’s often empty…
I’m waiting for the next season, I really believe, seriously, that Ajax can do something interesting in CL. It depends on whom will come to replace Vertonghen, normally it would be Moisander or Nuytinck, not the top level but Ajax can’t have a player as good as Vertonghen…Narsingh is coming too normally.
——————-Vermeer—————–
–Van Rhijn—Alderweireld—-Moisander—-Boilesen
————Anita———Janssen—————-
——————Eriksen————————
–Narsingh————————-Boerrigter
——————Sigthorsson—————
With Schone, S.De Jong, Ozbiliz ,(Enoh ? Sulejmani ?) on the bank, there is a real potential. The defense is a little bit weak but we cannot do anything against this problem in Holland, we’re used to.
Let’s take a look to Feyenoord too, they bought many players for next season and they’ll keep their best.
After 74/78, 88/92, 98/00 classes, the current squad is as talented generation of players as many country can dream of. Up front we have talented players that other countries is dreaming of. Van Persie, Hunter, Sneijder, Van Der Vaart, Afellay, Robben. Unfortunately the defense cannot be compared to the older 3 generations mentioned above. We cannot tell how the next generation will do, as we only know their potential. In order to do that, we need to qualify for WC 2014, blending the current squad core players with much more younger players so the younger players can have experiences. I think the coach (Bert or the new coach) need to test these young players in friendly (against any team) and qualification (vs weak teams) rather than starting the same 11. If we cannot do that then perhaps we do not deserve to qualify for WC and enter the dark period again (rebuild from scratch) instead of gaining experiences at WC2014 and have a realistic chance of winning title in Euro 2016. I think failure to qualify is the biggest issue. Having say that, if you rebuild from scratch and win the title then it is a different story, but I cannot count the chicken before the egg. I still think the goal is to quailfy for WC 2014 with a younger squad. I think it is achievable.
@ samDC, strootman played enough qualifiers for one to think he would be playing at the Euros… He scored a goal and was pleasant to watch… I was shocked that he wasn’t even subbed in at the 60′ mark in game 2 or 3.
The next generation: WC2014 and Euro2016 especially will have good defenders, but not the firepower we currently have in attack based on the talents at hand now. This could be a good thing. As, knowing about their limitations in advance, will eliminate their egos and that generation will work as a TEAM.
exactly… someone mentioned greece’s team spirit in another post (was it you).. anyway did you see Karagounis’ face when he realized he was out for the QF game? Incredible… even Sweden played with heart and soul today against France… this is a big wakeup call for us. I believe in fate and this definitely happened for a reason.
No it wasnt. Although I agree. The Greeks showed great spirit and for all their bad football they demonstrated amazing cohesion and mental strength. They got out of a group including the hosts and a tough russian side coached by Hidink wannabe lil general
@ Hien, I think the whole mindset needs to change on the youth development level. All the young players want to be the new Robben and the new Sneijder but much more emphasis needs to be placed on the defensive end. We need to develop young players who are fearless and who tackle hard… We need Lahms, Sergio Ramos’s, Patric Evras, Gary Cahills… we need to teach youngsters that there is a big opportunity to shine at this level.
I remember that when Javier Mascherano snubbed Liverpool for Barca even he had to change his position to be able to play regularly and that’s what we will need going forward. Players like Pieters who can convert into CBs, LBs, and RBs for the good of the whole….
and that’s why Frank De Boer might be the right man for the job….
just to step away from footie for a moment, who’s everyone pulling for in the OKC-MIAMI NBA series??
Frank de Boer will be playing CL next season. I doubt he’d be too inclined to take over at Oranje right now. He did a great job. Winning the league title despite the drama that was unfolding publicly at the club.
If they are indeed going to replace BVM, I hope we hear about the shortlist of candidates before they make their official choice.
@ Bitterballen:
OKC baby!
Im impressed the poll got 200 votes…not bad!
i voted like 5 times 🙂 i keep flip flopping because i did admire his pragmatic approach… it worked well in the world cup and something has to be said about his amazing qualifier record.
@Bitterballen,
I just want to see a good series. OKC needs to win tonight or it’s all over. I doubt they’ll win Game 5 in Miami. Lebron would die on the floor before he loses a 3rd final at home.
OKC half court offense is not very good. They flourish when they rebound misses and run in open court. Miami made that adjustment in Game 2. With the exception of Durant, the other struggle when the tempo slows down.
since i’m in miami, i support the heat, but i’m not a basketball fan. I’m a Marlins fan and Dolphins fan. and you know, the real thing about the NBA finals was simply, Lebron is clutch, not shooting wise, but he shut down durant! defensively he takes on the other teams star, which i’m liking. So if he shuts down durant, and westbrook gets into foul trouble, we are in for some awesomeness
i’m not a lebron fan, i want a good series too and i think harden will be key for okc.
@Bitterballen: I agree with you that development for defense is needed, and right now we hope that Ajax or Feyenoord will do that. Perhaps Euro 2016.
@ hien.. we still have a solid core with sneijder, we need to try to win the WC too… it is doable with the right team, tactics, and manager… who knew we would get to the final in 2010? no one really besides us…
@Balkan,
I cannot reply to the old thread anymore cause after a certain number of replies, there is no more reply button 🙂
so, anyhow, I feel like shooting Heitinga and then call Yolanthe to tell her “Wes is cheating, I saw him” 🙂
I am as pissed as you although I disagree about Bert in general and about the WC2010 team. I have seen the 70s one and this is the second best ever. I haven’t seen our opponents pissing their pants since Cruyff was at the lineup. It took 35 years to see our opponents give up before the game begins. The 2010 team was the second most dominant ever, although with a different style. Times change though.
Anyhow, between now and the first game with Turkey there is … there is not ! … any time.
So, it seems safer to have all the bad actors shake hands and try to make up for this embarrassment. Maybe Wes will take off his head from Yolanthe’s thighs, maybe Wiel will feel guilty playing like a girl and maybe Johnny will not f up in the next 90′.
If you look at the schedule, it is easier to start rebuilding in H1 2013 and test it in H2 2013 when we will be probably safe in points.
Changes? YES. But not changes that will cost us dearly now.
The guys we have can beat Turkey and Romania, put us in a safe distance and retire more honorously. Same for Bert.
Don’t worry, we got time till 2014. Let’s see how our guys do in the new season and we go from there.
So disappointed in the players, especially given their apparent disrespect for their coach. I say keep BvM and back him up to the point that he will not fear sanctioning the ‘stars’ of the team.
I don’t think now is the time to change the coach. Maybe this is because I’m an Arsenal fan and like long-term coaches. Arsenal had a horrific start to last season. The coach had lost a great deal of control and respect.Despite massive speculation, the club stuck with him and the team recovered. BvM has had success, he will have it again.
He had to protect the weak defence. He couldn’t play all out attack like one subset of players demanded. The game against Portugal, in my opinion, vindicated van Marwijk’s selection decisions throughout the tournament. The players must recognise this and unite behind him.
What makes me really angry is to see all these horrible teams that have qualified. I not only detest them all but to see arrogant England in the QF is a total joke. They were outplayed today and Ukraine was robbed, yet England has now a genuine chance against Italy. Unbelievable. But I do agree with previous comments that all these teams are fit and play hard to win.
One more comment about group dynamics. It is the responsibility of the manager to bring enough new players into the group to keep it sharp and focused. In this way, the manager can prevent clan formation. It is unavoidable and we have witnessed it time and time again with many teams. This is management 101. It does not matter whether it is a football team or like in my case a medical department. The group must be kept fresh and the only way to achieve this is to bring fresh and new faces. Bert did it way too late.
I tend to agree that our players did NOT look fit enough to play. First 20 min yes – after that no follow up no gush of enthusiasm – no guts – no chasing and sadly as some of you said – NO KUYT ! he always inspires everyone around him to work harder.
the sooner this euro is over, the better. I can’t stand it anymore. At least with the WK2014 qualifiers, we have new hopes 🙂
@ demi. definitely… it’s hard to watch. what’s worse: we waited 2 years for these precious 3 weeks and some of us followed qualifier after qualifier only to be disappointed and be ousted after 3 games.. total BS… it’s like going to Disneyworld and after your first roller coaster ride they shut down the park due to electric failure… sucks!
so i hear in 14 days KNVB will decide the future of van marwijk, i wonder if they keep him or he’s gone,
what would the betting odds be on others being coaches?
Ronald Koeman
Gertjan Verbeek
Louis Van Gaal (hell no)
Frank Rijkaard
Guus Hiddink
Marco Van Basten
Co Adriaanse
Pep Guardiola
Frank De Boer
Philip Cocu
Huub Stevens
Who will be the next coach of holland?
willem Van Hanegem recommends Co Adriaanse
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/2942/EK-voetbal/article/detail/3273559/2012/06/19/Mocht-Van-Marwijk-opstappen-dan-beveel-ik-Co-Adriaanse-aan.dhtml
I also agree with you Demi. Can’t wait for this Euro to be over. I lost interest. I lost the excitement and the nerve watching Oranje. It is not the same without Oranje.
A total outsider with no alliance with any of the players would be perfect. On top of that each player should be made clear it is the coach that decides upon tactics, selection and who gets to play. If after they agree to cooperate and promise to give it their full they still start nagging, they should be scrapped totally no matter who they are and not be called upon until a new coach and/or tactics comes along.
It is the KNVB that is ultimately responsible for allowing the infighting to happen in the first place and should technically fire themselves unless of course they passed this responsibility on to the coach, in which case he should get fired.
The thorough review the KNVB promised will of course avoid the elephant in the room and bring up some other excuses to 1) continue with BvM and 2) allow for their own incompetence to continue. Nothing will change and future embarrassments will be unavoidable.
These players deserve better, this country deserves better, all of the Oranje fans around the world deserve better.
It would show true spirit to let an independent organisation carry out this review. Only then will we learn something and be able to avoid future mistakes.
As sport country no. 1 on the planet, constantly performing way above it’s population size I’m sure there is golden expertise available in Australia. The people in question don’t even have to have any knowledge of soccer to sort out what went wrong. The Dutch of all people should know that they are too small of a country to always do it all by themselves and call in help from professional colleagues.
I dare the KNVB to think outside of the box and allow strangers to review the situation and work with them to find the solutions to the problems within Oranje.
Hup Holland Hup
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What a shame.. Branded as one of the favorites, but yet we finished bottom after losing 3 times.
Don’t know what happened.. But I really really think that a change is needed.. It’s not the coach, it’s not the player, but honestly, we suck big time !!! Back in 80’s and 90’s we didn’t stop producing world class player.. But now.. I haven’t seen any player who can deservedly replace our current squad… And by 2014, Sneijder, Van Persie, Van der Vaart etc is going to be in their 30’s !!!!!!!! Who’ll play then ?? I’m sad, dissapointed but moreover.. I’m really really worried about the future of our beloved squad..
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