The key thing for the Oranje team after the dressing down vs France is to quickly get the egg and mud of the faces and straighten their backs! It’s a tough one. Egos were hurt, reputations damaged. We’re the laughing stock in Europe after the biggest Orange defeat since 1969!!

And the players will have felt it. The media (French, Dutch, English) were tough on our performance and with all reasons and right to do so. But, it is not a knock-out competition. We’re still in it. So analysis should wait. Blame game should wait. Dick needs to pull the lads together and get them uplifted. Sneijder said after the game, that due to the Bulgaria result vs Sweden, the mood lifted in the dressing room. A little angel helped us to stay alive.

And may I bring into memory the WC1974? No, not Cruyff’s goals. Not Van Hanegem’s playmaker’s role, Neeskens runs or Krol’s crosses. Yes, we dazzeled the world but do you remember the qualification games before the tournament? We were shite. We should not have gone! Belgium was the nation deserving to go, as Oranje scored the decider vs East Germany in clear offside position. Otherwise, we were out!

And even then, with JC, with De Kromme, the fans and media back in 1973 wondered why on Earth Oranje was even traveling to West Germany?

Same in 2014 with Van Gaal’s squad. The media was ruthless. “We were going to be humiliated and on a plane back after the three group matches!” And it took penalties vs Argentina to keep us from playing another finals.LVG

Which we would have won by the way. So you know.

So yes, it was dramatic, but surely we can beat Bulgaria and Sweden at home? The good thing is, both nations have something to play for and both will have to come to take something from the game. Belarus away might be the toughest game. Winter, bad pitch, tough opponent.

The issues we have – as analysed by all of you after the France game – are apparent. And are multi-faceted. It’s many things and we can work on some of them.

There are also aspects we simply can’t work on. When Rene van der Gijp was asked what he hoped for, he answered: “I hope a guy and girl are making love right now somewhere in Veenendaal or Tiel or Zaandam and are making a Lionel Messi for us!”

Robben Advo

The criticism on the midfield players was justified. But the reason why Strootman and Wijnaldum are so good at club level and not at NT level has nothing to do with mentality or motivation or quality. It’s about a club coach, having a firm tactical plan and gelling the team in such a way that every player’s strength is used and every weakness is balanced out.

I personally believe Dick Advocaat got the tactics wrong. I did say it before the game, I’d never go in with 4-3-3.

Janssen had no role to play in this match and he doesn’t even deserve any criticism for it. He didn’t get one playable ball.

He had no business vs France and we should have started with 2 or even 1 forward. I would always have played four midfielders vs the agile and powerful French.

But, it’s a competition and we’re still in it. Bulgaria will probably play defensively against us, so now we do need the attacking prowess of Sneijder or Robben as creator and the presence of Janssen in the box, maybe even with Dost coming in as well at some stage.

Robben dans

It seems Vilhena will take Strootman’s role and I can imagine Veltman or Tete to come on for Fosu-Mensah. The Man United loanie did ever so well vs France but had a couple of cramp attacks during the game. Veltman is better in possession and overall, Tete the better all-round player.

Wesley Hoedt didn’t have a top game either so I could even imagine more changes. An attack minded coach could use Daley Blind as centre back alongside De Vrij, but Dick Advocaat is a lot of things….not an attack minded coach.

I believe our lads will show the fans in the Johan Cruyff Arena that they are 100% focused and motivated and I can see us beat Bulgaria 3-0, with Janssen on the score-sheet alongside Robben and Sneijder.

robben 2010

Here is a To Do list of considerations for Dick Advocaat:

Try not to use players without match rhythm

Wesley Hoedt played some promising football for us against Morocco and Ivory Coast. Good passing, speed in his handling, good vision. But against France, it was clear that he simply lacks rhythm. Lacking confidence and not as light on his feet as per usual. Blind as centre back is an option but I don’t see Dick call up Erik Pieters. Martins Indi doesn’t play that often either and De Ligt, who will have rhythm, is not playing his best football at the moment. Vilhena for Strootman is a no-brainer.

Don’t let Robben get isolated on the right wing

Against France, Robben was supposed to be the go-to man, but the Bayern star got double marking and was not easily found. He was relegated to making 30 yards defensive runs and was even seen heading balls away in his own box! Pep Guardiola saw Robben as a potential playmaker and used him centrally behind the strikers. Wesley lacks rhythm, so why not use Promes and Memphis upfront with Robben as playmaker.

If we can’t break them down with football, lets use the airforce!

Pierre van Hooijdonk always says it. If you can’t break them down, pepper them with crosses. Why not? Two strikers vs Bulgaria. It seems Ajax will go forward with Dolberg and Huntelaar. Spicey detail: during the last practice session pre-France, it appeared the A team (the starters) were also beaten by the B-team who emulated France…

 

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148 responses to “Oranje and final #1”

  1. bitterballen says:

    We need Gio to coach the team and clean house. Nobody older than 25 should be on the side.

  2. Sybe Pals says:

    Lineup for Final #1:

    Cillessen
    Tete – de Vrij – Hoedt – Blind
    Vilhena – Wijnaldum
    Propper
    Robben – Janssen – Promes

  3. KJ says:

    Lineup:

    Cillessen

    Tete de Vrij Hoedt Blind

    Wijnaldum Propper Vilhena

    Robben Janssen Promes

    • Emmanual says:

      yet again wrong choice Midfeild..gini should not play there…Propper for walking????it should have been
      Van de beek
      Vanginkel—Vilhena
      Roben–Janssen–Wijnaldum..

  4. Jan says:

    Hey guys, can you trust those streaming sites with your credit card details? Or do they bill you directly?

  5. JB says:

    GOAL! Apparently Propper has been the key all along!

    Credit to all those who have been calling for his inclusion!

  6. JB says:

    Earlier Robben was so shocked to receive a forward pass into the box that he didn’t even know what to do with it!

  7. Balkan says:

    Good goal by Propper but he will never convince me. Bulgaria is a good team. It will be tough to get the win.

  8. Balkan says:

    Was hoping for a Belarus surprise today but Sweden just scored.

  9. JB says:

    One skill that our current generation of players has truly mastered is the back pass. Our back passes generally always have the proper weight, pace and angle. Why we are choosing to pass backward constantly in a must win game vs Bulgaria I have no idea, but we certainly are adept at it

  10. Balkan says:

    Sweden 2 goals up.

  11. AZ-forever says:

    after scoring the goal, Dutch got relaxed. Again those stupid back-playing balls.

  12. Balkan says:

    Janssen is atrocious. Terrible.

  13. Balkan says:

    Game started well. We now are back to our mediocre ways. I may fall asleep.

  14. JB says:

    This may illustrate my lack of knowledge outside the big European leagues, but I haven’t heard of a single Bulgarian player. How are we not dominating this game?

  15. Emmanual says:

    vilhena man of the match for 45 minutes by miles..

  16. AZ-forever says:

    Oranje play so relaxed as if their goal difference is unreachable for Sweden…I still see nice attacks at times but Bulgarian defense is very solid…

    • vanfadly says:

      it actually not very solid, with all respect for Bulgaria. Janssen taking a couple long shots is a sign of loose defense (he rarely did that, really).

      true, nice attacks… but then… *back pass*

      man I need another coffee to stay awake with this boring play.

  17. Yan says:

    How come I dont see the “MUST WIN ” mentality still…..

  18. AZ-forever says:

    I think Janssen plays well.He fights for every ball. I do not like Tete and Promes….

  19. Yoyogi says:

    A better performance than the complete dereliction of duty against France. One goal advantage is a risky proposition considering our defense.

    Bulgaria is dangerous on counter-attacks and set pieces so a second insurance goal is vital to secure the points with Sweden in control of the other game.

    Good luck Oranje!!

  20. vanfadly says:

    are Blind and Robben the only ones that able to pick a pass towards the box?

  21. JB says:

    I actually think this game is more suited to Propper’s style of play. We have close to 70% possession, and are playing at a relatively slow pace while the Bulgarian defense hangs back. We need some creative touches and flicks to break them down, and Propper can provide some of that. His work rate is not great, but he can provide value here.

    Personally, I’m shocked that Janssen is still out there. He just looks completely off his game and lacking in confidence. I would prefer just about anyone else at the moment. Where is Memphis?!

  22. Emmanual says:

    Sweden 3-0 up they are hunting down Belarus..they new goal difference matters.. We need to beat this bulgariia by 4-0…
    Promes out Wijnaldum in promes spot
    Van de beek in Wijnaldum spot..
    Propper out Ginkel in..
    Janssen out Memphis in(lets see how memphis does)

  23. Tomy14 says:

    Have these guys realized yet that we need goals?

  24. JB says:

    The duct taping of Cillessen’s net is symbolic of the KNVB’s current leadership approach

  25. Tomy14 says:

    Wijnaldum for a second game in a row has been poor

  26. JB says:

    Promes has been disappointing today as well. Bring on Memphis and Dost for him and Janssen

  27. JB says:

    We just caught two breaks there. A sympathetic ref could have just given a penalty, and then moments later a striker with any speed at all could have outrun de Vrij to a wayward through ball

  28. JB says:

    There we go! Propper to Janssen to Promes to Blind to Robben!

  29. AZ-forever says:

    Daley has been very good today. His passes are fantastic

  30. AZ-forever says:

    what a careless defending….

  31. Balkan says:

    Mediocre players at best. How do you concede like that?

  32. Balkan says:

    I can sense Bulgaria tying the game in 90th minute if we don’t score again.

  33. JB says:

    Just like the announcer are saying, goal differential may be crucial. We can’t slow down, and we can’t give up stupid goals!

  34. wissor3 says:

    Odd question… why do we always seem to lose headed balls

  35. Tomy14 says:

    Janssen is extremely selfish whos desperately trying to convince Pochetino he can score.

  36. Tomy14 says:

    Good defensive work from Vilhena who’s been all over the field. He does need to improve he’s passing though.

  37. JB says:

    Bulgaria have had a number of chances that a higher quality team might have finished.

    How did we lose to them the first time around?!

  38. AZ-forever says:

    Dutch are playing very immature game. After scoring they immediately get relaxed….

  39. wissor3 says:

    I agree with Tommy. Vilhena is the DM going forward. That leaves two other midfield positions open. Proper seems to be playing welll

  40. Balkan says:

    Vilhena is our new Davids, or close.

  41. wissor3 says:

    I think he’s closer to Nigel de Jong than Davids. His passing is on and off

  42. Tomy14 says:

    How’s Wijnaldum still on the field is beyond me!!! Zero contributions on our offense. Van de Beek should have replaced him earlier.

  43. Yan says:

    Vilhena is close to Edgar Davis.. Not sure if he can ever reach his level though…

  44. JB says:

    Watching Sweden in 2018 is going to be like watching Iceland last year. Just another missed opportunity…

  45. Tomy14 says:

    Sweden 0-4 which takes them to +6 from us and them still to play Luxembourg at home.

  46. AZ-forever says:

    We won, but the goal difference still could be an issue at the end.

  47. wissor3 says:

    What is the head to head tie breaker? Goals for? Goal difference or head to head games?

  48. AZ-forever says:

    Propper, Vilhena and particularly Blind are the best players of Oranje in this game.

    Gini and Tete are the worst.

  49. Yan says:

    so how do the rules count? If HOlland finish third, are we going to do the play-offs?

  50. KJ says:

    I think we played really well. Blind, Vilhena, and Propper were stand out. Jansen good for hold up play but poor in finishing chances. CBs held their own at times so credit to them as well.

    We are still clueless while defending set pieces though.

    • vikram says:

      No we didn’t. Except for 4 moves, we didn’t pass, move off the ball, create space or avoid back-passes. We won because Bulgaria were a weak team who made a lot of mistakes. Not sure how we lost to them in the first game.

      Unfortunately, Holland has forgotten how to play basic football, leave alone Total Football.

  51. Yan says:

    Can someone tell me what the chances are that we can still go to Russia 2018?

  52. Emmanual says:

    My 2 cents…
    when taking from hiddink Danny blind had 4 games in hand to qualify he could only win 1 among it..by his wrong choices Danny kicked us out of Ec2016…
    2–I think we are out after seeing the goal difference again..after just another stupid game by Danny Blind…This guy has cost us 2 big tournamnets…

  53. mago says:

    Even if Oranje will finish 2nd in the group, we are out! Only 8 teams out of 9 will advance to playoffs and we have lost too many points.

  54. Sybe Pals says:

    Need to win 2 games and take 6 goals back from Sweden doing it – so unless they blow it and do not win their next one at home to Lux, so matching their score next game and then beat them 3-0 is minimum.
    We go to Belarus, where Sweden have scored 4 today. Then Sweden come to us.

  55. Yan says:

    It’s out of our hands. Even the 2010 team can’t turn it around.

    I’m not worried for us to win the remaining games. But winning with a great margin? This team can’t convince me

  56. Sybe Pals says:

    Unfortunately KNVB big wigs probably pat themselves on the back right now for Advocaat’s installation of Propper seeming to come off so well..

  57. Sybe Pals says:

    But fortunately we have 3 points at Amsterdam ArenA once again – so let’s look forward

  58. Tomy14 says:

    Can someone give me a source whether it is head to head or goal difference!

  59. Yoyogi says:

    Glad we got the win. A huge relief! Lifts the spirits of the players a bit.

    Vilhena needs to start games. His energy is good but he has to work on his tackling and passing.
    Propper also needs to start. Man of the match with his two vital goals.
    Hoedt did fine. Hopefully, he can get some game time with VVD at Southampton (assuming the later stays this season).
    Blind has really improved his crosses. Mourinho playing him at the left back spot regularly has helped him specialize in a position rather than be the jack of all trades under LVG.

    Jansen needs to find a new club. Needs to play regularly. He shows effort but lacks precision in finishing.
    Promes was ineffective with his runs in both games. Memphis should have been given a chance at least as a substitute.
    Wijnaldum had another weak showing in back to back games. He should have been subbed off.

    Robben had a bit more space and freedom compared to the lock down treatment he received from the French. Got the second goal with great off the ball movement.

    Tete, DeVrij, and Cilissen did just enough. Bulgaria just didn’t test the defense that much.

    Dutch team needs a dedicated defensive coach. Something has to change. The whole team needs to go back to basics and learn how to defend set pieces, positioning, man-marking etc

  60. vikram says:

    We are OUT. Whatever possibilities anyone can come up with is purely academic and mathematical. Even if we win the the next two games (Belarus and Sweden), we have to win by margins like 8-0 against Belarus (assuming Sweden will thrash Luxembourg at home) and then something like 7-0 against Sweden.
    This is unrealistic and it is not going to happen.

    This was not a difficult group to at least finish second in but as usual, we blew it right from the first game.

    We have been pathetic since the 2014 WC and now need to go in hibernation. Start preparing for the 2022 WC as a realistic goal.

    What a shame!!!
    For the first time in my lifetime as a Netherlands supporter, I feel ashamed.

  61. Yan says:

    We are out !

    I’m not someone that easily like to give up, but being realistic we are out . And it’s so sad

    Unless you win 7-0 in the upcoming games .
    This is so sad

    Prepare for the euro’s 2020

  62. wissor3 says:

    So basically we got robbed because of the disallowed goal against Sweden. Then to make sure we don’t stand a chance de Light started game 1 against Bulgaria

  63. dwherwey says:

    Blind really good to day. Passing was phenomenal as well as the timing of his runs. If only he had pace he could be a world class fullback. Happy for Propper that was his best performance for NT by a mile (not saying much). Still not convinced he’s the man against top quality opponents but you can only play the opposition in front of you.

    I agree with everyone here who is saying that Vilhena is the new first choice midfielder. Strootman has been error prone and Gini invisible. In my mind the only palyers assured of starting should be Robben, Vilhena, De Vrij, Van Dijk, and Blind. Biggest question marks at number 10 and striker. I agree with Jan and others calling for a front three of Memphis, Promes, and Robben.

  64. Demi says:

    I don’t understand all the complaints. We got humiliated 3 days ago and we were able to pickup and have a good convincing performance. Vilhena super good. Proper the right guy for that game. Dick made a couple of changes (trust me there is no time for radical makeovers now). Can you imagine the same game and the same recovery under Danny Blind?

    I know things are tough but we can also score in the next two games and close the gap.

    We fight till the fat lady sings.

    • vanfadly says:

      I’m sure we can win then next 2 games. but qualifying is a different matter.

      meanwhile, Lux held the Frenchmen goalless in 1st half! why didn’t we just do that? we could’ve got that precious 1 point…

      • Emmanual says:

        We need to ask that to strootman and Martyn stekelenberg…

        • Demi says:

          come on folks, you gain nothing crying about spilled milk… we still have chances. we can trash Belarus and hope for a Swedish f-up…remember they lost in Sofia, that’s why we still have chances. With Dick at least you can count on winning the winneable games.

          Cheers !

          • vanfadly says:

            with Lux held France goalless, I’m actually getting more optimistic.

            hey tiju, France cant beat Lux at home! they certainly needed Memphis, didn’t they? 😂

  65. wilson says:

    Jus get in huntelaar vs belarus. He will put in 4-5 goals alone. Jus service him.

  66. wilson says:

    Bit suprised Depay was not sub in either of the games. Dod he have another butst up or what.😆

  67. Guillaume vB says:

    relax, guys, France can’t even beat Luxemburg…

  68. Guillaume vB says:

    Good thing France did not win. They’ll have to play the next games seriously…

  69. Balkan says:

    I don’t expect Lux to draw with Sweden. And we don’t deserve to go though before them. We harvested what we sowed. I hope they don’t give Advocaat an extension to continue his “good work” for the next tournament. But I wouldn’t be surprised if KNVB hires Benhaker after him. Unless a miracle happens KNVB will surprise us with some other sort of shit.

  70. AZ-forever says:

    Who would imagine that France will not be able to win LUX. Everything is possible in football. Let’s see. If we win Belarus 6:0, and Sweden wins LUx with a minimal score, the goal difference prior to NED-SWE game will be +12 for Sweden and +11 for Ned. Then NED need to win Sweden with goal difference +2. So, everything is possible. Do you remember how Spain won Malta 12:0 and overcame NED by goal difference to go to WC-1986?

  71. Eduardorw says:

    Hi guys!

    I don’t agree with many of your comments.

    I think Netherlands played very good.

    For me the MOTM was Vilhena. He is becoming in an excellent player. I prefer him as holding midfield than Strootman.

    I think Promes, Propper an Robben played very good. Also Jansen.

    I am big fan of Tete, but today we needed a RB with more attacking skills, like Veltman.

    I have a question: since a few years I am concerned trying to find the new playmaker.

    First, I deposit my hopes in Maher. It didn’t work. Then in Ziyech, and he chose to play with other country. And then, I trusted a lot in Nouri and then, we all know what happened to him. Poor guy. What a tragedy.

    There is another future playmaker around here? I don’t trust in a Propper nor Klassen as playmaker.

  72. Balkan says:

    KNVB should hire de Boer after he gets fired by Palace. That will really be a fresh start.

  73. Yoyogi says:

    The beauty of Dutch football is also its fundamental problem. The desire to always attack and play beautiful football while pleasing for the fans and enjoyable for the players, means a lack of focus on defense and ability to grind out games.

    Luxembourg was able to hold a French team with the same starting lineup that trashed Oranje 4-0 just a few days ago. Tactics do matter. Getting points matter. I don’t care if you park the bus or play with 10 defenders a goalkeeper when you need to put points on the table. At the end of the day, if you win, that’s all that matters!!!

    I am not advocating we all of a sudden start playing defensively. Play cautiously when you face a superior or dangerous opponent. Play your traditional game when you have easier opponents or are not facing elimination. Be adaptable and don’t be predictable.

  74. Jad says:

    For us to qualify we need to beat alot of odds
    1- winning the last two games, provided sweden will not win luxemburg or we must beat sweden with many goals to have a goal difference higher than sweden , so far sweden are 6 goals better than us.

    2-if we finished second we can be eliminated as worst second team, so our result must be better than the seconds of groups H or I or D or E ( we must rely that belgium beats bosnia in group H )

    We need miracle results for us and other teams in other groups

    Yes we have a chance but not more than 19%

    With performance of today there is hope in winning the last two games but it may be not enough to play the playoffs even unless luck really plays its way for us to qualify…

  75. richarde says:

    Dutch are in this predicament mostly because of terrible player selections by Danny Blind. Better game today.

  76. wilson says:

    I absolutely agree with what Balkan has said above “We harvested what we sowed” and its not good enough. I was trying to find the right words but couldn’t and what balkan said jus read my mind.you look at Daley Blind for instance. vs France his limitations and vs Bulgaria his strengths was was clearly under limelight.there is no denying that this was always going to be his prognosis from day 1 but yet the coaches invested in him, overlooking his weakness to his strengths,with the perception that with his intelligence he could provide the right balance but which was never going to yield.so it all comes down to why he was invested in the first place or why no one else for that matter. its not jus Daley Blind but others as well, Klaassen, propper, the midfield trio of sniejder, wijnaldum and strootman. I dont know whether this is the right word but its a “in house ” thing and is both the problem and solution itself. people need to change, the whole platform needs to change and the culture needs to change if they want to succeed in future.

    you look at De ligt. every one is saying he is probably the best defender Holland has produced in years. now if you look at Rick Van Drongelen he also is as good as him or even better but yet he has gone unnoticed jus because he was playing for sparta. this was very same situation with Van dijk when he was at Celtic and Veltman at Ajax, where he had to take the long road to proclaim the status he has now. you also look at todays game vs Bulgaria, propper would have received the golden boot for his performance today lol but the fact is, if he would
    have started vs france ,the goal margin would have been more.I mean where is all this gonna end. I was very excited to hear that Van ginkel will satrt but that never eventuated when he clearly has better potential and higher ceiling than propper whose play is mostly dictated by the tempo of the game.toornstra omission,same story. he was suppose to start in both games by all means.

    this cycle needs to break and good return will only come with a good investment.there is no two about this.

    there was alot things that was said in the previous blog about how player quality has dropped, this and that,which are all but jus fictitious.whats needed is fresh start with a right mindset.if GVB can bench kuyt and start toornstra,then you need people like him for NT job. with talents likes sinkgraven,Ake,Dumfries,van Drongelen, De Ligt, van crooy,stengs,Fesu Mensah,Kadioglu and with some senior players like De Vrij,Van Dijk, Karsdorp, Van Ginkel,Depay,strootman,Wijnaldum,Locadia,Toornstra, Riedewald,Buttner,clasie, there is no doubt a with more game time a formidable team can be moulded.

  77. Depay9 is the best says:

    Why has everyone forgot about riedewald he is still a world class talent

  78. Depay9 is the best says:

    If you look at the list of talents Netherlands has it’s funny to believe that some people think we will be bad for many years to come. We still have riedewald, kluivert, van de Beek, bazoer, TFM, depay, kishna, stengs, boetius, zivkovic, de lift, van drogelen, kadioglu, promes, haps, karsdorp, and so much more. People don’t realize that this is not a club it’s a national team so you can choose from mman endless amount of players who are doing well at the time and you could play awful one game but absolutely amazing the next

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