Oranje better, but not good enough….

blog WC2018
by Jan

It’s a weird game, that football! France played us off the pitch with dazzling football and got 4 past us. Next, versus minions Luxembourg they can’t score any of their chances.

It probably won’t matter. As our statisticians on the blog have demonstrated: it will be a huge challenge to do what Oranje needs to do: win and win big!

But there were two typical off-pitch issues that are illustrative for the state we are in.

First of: Goal Difference:

After the France game, the highly popular (but very populist) football program Voetbal Inside broke the news that the players of Oranje were not aware of the importance of goal-difference when losing in Paris to France. With 10 mins on the clock, it was 2-0. We should have been able to keep it at 2-o. Instead we conceded two more counter goals and our goal difference difference (is this English) deteriorated, while Sweden pumped theirs up last night.

staff oranje

If this is true (the players not aware), you can see immediately what our problem is. You’d expect the ample staff at the KNVB to whisper this into Advocaat’s ear. You’d expect Advocaat to respond with: “I know!”. And you’d expect Dick to inform the players before the match: “If we can win it, we will try and win it. But if we are losing, we need to make sure the margin stays limited. Because goal difference…” and then the full Oranje squad yelling at him: “Stop talking. We KNOW!”

But apparently they didn’t. Sums up the KNVB/Oranje situation in one hit.

Secondly: assistant coach filming in dressing room and posting it online:

Right after the game, Twitter shows a video clip of the Oranje squad post-match in the dressing room. The TV journalist shows the clip to Dick, who explodes. “This shouldn’t be online! We shouldn’t have anyone with cameras in the dressing room! How is this possible?” The tv guy said: “Eh, your assistant Ruud Gullit filmed it and posted it on Twitter!”. Dick: “Really? Wow… That is not what I need. I will have a stern conversation with Gullit about this!”

Pretty silly eh?

Against Bulgaria, we should have scored 5, based on the game. And not concede one single goal.

With all the positives we can rant about here (Blind, Vilhena, Propper, De Vrij), this really puts us further back. We now have to make up for 6 goals, while Sweden has to face Luxembourg still.

We’re in a dire situation people and it’s fricking sad!

Janssen Bul

Our line up against Bulgaria was a reasonable logical one. Sneijder is deemed not fit enough. Propper has exquisite technique, is a dynamic runner with the ball, all intelligence and can score. He doesn’t / didn’t show it enough last season at PSV and with Brighton, he might never be able to. But he played a perfect game vs Bulgaria. Vilhena showed himself vs France and deserved to be in the team.

But with Janssen and Robben and Hoedt lacking rhythm, we still were vulnerable, going into the game.

Scoring in the first five minutes was exactly what the doctor ordered. And should have pushed the team for more and increased the confidence. But we didn’t create enough in the remainder of the first half.

Even worse, we seemed to be lacking in ideas. Propper had some attempts to create an attack and Blind was industrious on the left, but players like Tete, Wijnaldum, Janssen and even Robben were not able to bring any flow to their game.

I think Wijnaldum had 5 stray passes/touches in the first 20 minutes alone. Tete seemed out of sorts. His tackle timing was off, his passing was sloppy and his forward runs started properly late in the first half.wijnald bul

Part of what Janssen did was good. He works hard. Check. He is a nuisance. Check. He fights for every yard and wants to be important. Check. But he also demonstrated a total lack of rhythm. He miscued his shots on goal (with his solid left). He needed many fouls to stay in the game. He complained and whined to the ref constantly. And off-side needs to be explained properly to him. At times it felt like every time he’d get the ball, he would find a way to strike at goal, even with options around him and even if it’s from 35 meters out. A typical striker who lacks confidence and rhythm and feels he needs to prove to the world he can still play.

Oranje won, but played sluggish. Stray passes, square passes, lack of movement (again) and lack of team understanding. All logical, if you consider the selection issues Danny Blind and now Advocaat have had. But it doesn’t bode well for flowing football and the creation of opportunities.

In the second half, Arjen Robben joined the Vincent Janssen-Lets-Try-and-Score-From-Every-Angle club and he was keen to force the issues personally. He got his goal and would give a sour post match interview, criticizing the team for not working harder to create more opportunities.

propper bul

The goal Bulgaria scored from the set piece… Really?

Some positives… Promes was lively. Worked hard. Tried again and again on the flank. Seemed to have arguments with the ball at times, but probably due to trying too hard. His interplay with Janssen and Blind was pretty good though. Davy Propper impressed me again. His runs into space (two goals as a result), his first touch, this lad can really play and deserves a better team around him. Vilhena was industrious as ever. Without the ball, a key player. Lung, legs and drive. And make no mistake: he can play too. But he’s a bit young still and maybe a bit too hurried at times. But he has good technique and a thunderous long distance strike. He could well be our Kante moving forward.

Man of the Match, hands down for me, was Daley Blind. And despite his shortcomings, he will be a key player for Oranje moving forward for me. He made two goals. Like he did vs Spain at the WC2014.

The Ajax prodigal son has had a difficult start to his career. He was touted as the next big thing from an early age, coming through the Ajax Academy. Expectations were such, that when he made it into Ajax 1, the fans turned against him, as he does tend to play without any Ajax flair. No dribbles, no speed, no goals, no trickery. Just solid passing and positioning. He almost lost his spot at Ajax and was booed when Van Gaal selected him for the National Team. Up until the Spain opener in Brazil, people doubted him. After that match, he was a household name globally.

Robben Bulg

He went from strength to strength. At Man United, for 3 seasons he was one of the key players Van Gaal and Mourinho relied upon. This season, despite the question marks, he started every EPL game for the Mancunians.

At left back, the allrounder actually turned out to be Oranje’s playmaker. At. Left. Back!

His passing is forward whenever he can. Under pressure, without any time, he finds the right pass. His technique is exquisite but functional. No frills. And his left foot keeps on developing really well. Crosses, corner kicks. Mr Reliable.

What Blind does at the left, you’d want someone to do on the right (Tete? Veltman? Karsdorp?) and someone to do in the centre of the pitch. In the good old days, we have players who could pick the pass. Jansen, Van Hanegem, Cruyff, Krol, Rensenbrink, Haan in 1974. Muhren, Koeman, Vanenburg, Rijkaard, Wouters, Erwin Koeman in 1988. Davids, Seedorf, Ronald de Boer, Cocu, Frank de Boer in 1998. Sneijder, Gio van Bronckhorst, Van der Vaart, Van Bommel, Van Persie in 2010.

Going forward, whether it matters for this coming World Cup or not, I believe we need to work with a 4-1-4-1 system.

tonny bul

And I would consider Robben as the striker in some cases.

And in that system, I’d like to see a solid left back playing left back. Patrick van Aanholt, Jetro Willems or Erik Pieters. Players with body, defensive strength and good forward runs and crosses. Beats me why Pieters is constantly overlooked.

And I’d play Daley Blind in the Pirlo role. The 1 before defense. Not because of his defensive prowess, but because we need his vision and passing to come from the central position. With 4 midfielders like Klaassen/Vilhena/Wijnaldum/Fer/Van de Beek/Van Ginkel/Promes/Memphis we should have enough cocktails of running, passing, dribbling and speed.

The line up would change based on the availability and form of the players and the upcoming opponent.

But at this stage, the best build up player / playmaker we have today, is Daley Blind.

Advocaat (or his successor) will have to find a way to use the key strengths of his players to gel a system together which works best.

A last point: people seem to think that we need to play Total Football and attack like we used to “because the supporters demand this”. This is nonsense. Ask the supporters with match of the last 10 years is their favorite one and they will probably (80%+) will say: “Spain – Holland, WC 2014”. Case closed.

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95 comments

  1. I saw a comment about how Danny Blind is to blame due to his weird team selections….

    I’d like to say I don’t agree.

    Yes, Danny made a big mistake in hindsight with the selection of Mathijs de Ligt. It backfired.

    But other than that, losing against Iceland, Czechs, Turkey, Bulgaria, Sweden all comes down to the players.

    I don’t think Cruyff, Gullit, Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy, Van Hanegem ever – and I mean EVER – blamed their coaches for their tactics or selections.

    Big players will ignore a coach, if they don’t agree with them and simply take matters in their own hands.

    And win.

    JC and Willem have said many times that after team talks they’d walk onto the pitch and say to each other: forget about what he said. This is what we’ll do…

    Only De Ligt. This is something Robben couldn’t have helped. But conceding two against Bulgaria is one thing, not scoring up front is another.

    Players win games. Players lose games. It shouldn’t matter who the fricking coach is.

    2. I strongly disagree with the statement “…it shouldn’t matter who the fricking coach is…’

      Yes, it DOES MATTER!

      A coach is a leader. A team needs inspiration and motivation. Players need to be in the right mind frame. The game is not just physical and tactics. It is mental! They need to believe in their mission and their coach. Leadership and respect is earned. A successful coach needs to have both the motivation and tactics right. Otherwise, what’s the point of having a coach. You can have some kind of committee choose the starting line up and throw players out on the field. Let them figure it out on their own.

      In regards to Blind, he clearly failed to do the job. Not just the tactics and player selection but also motivating his players to get the best out of them (like LVG did at the 2014 WC). I would like to see him coach outside of Holland before I pass my opinion on him.

  2. For anyone who can’t do basic math and think we have no chance if you think about it second place isn’t that hard to reach. If we beat Belarus by 3 goals and sweden only beats Luxembourg by 1. Then we would only have to beat Sweden by two to qualify

    1. Sweden is having their home match Vs luxumburg…they won away match by 1-0…
      Sweden will go for killing vs luxumburg..minimum it will be A 3-1 or 3-0 or 4-0…
      Belarus is bus parking team…last we scored 4 against them ..now we have away match i dont know how many u r going to score with strootman and wijnaldum as midifeilders..
      Agree France is cut above us,also they are cut above portugal as well..Still that CR7 got the trophy….Why??
      Stekekelenburg GIFT TO POGBA AND FRANCE..
      Kevinstrootman GIFT TO SWEDEN
      Danny blind GIFT TO BULGARIA…
      Among this i still wonder why want for stek vs France from last winning team?????
      i can write of Strootman mistake..But playing Stek for Zoet and BMI-Deligt combo vs Bulgaria was suicidal..WE LOST THERE.

      1. I thought you love wijnaldum Emmanuel. Make up your mind and stop switching sides. And I highly doubt that they are going to play unless dick switches the formation that will better for their needs. And hopefully wijnaldum plays in cam position that is where he is best

        1. i like wijnaldum…if u check my line ups he is always a forward in my book…Gini is model for young players hardworking,humble and strong…But his speed of thoughts to handle situation is slow…We need better DM…nothing else ..donot misunderstand..

          2. you want a player with slow speed of thought on the wing? he’ll just turned like the ManUtd version of Depay.

            I believe that Blind-Vilhena should work well as the base of our midfield. just need that suitable and proven no.10.

  3. And for Blind …i have said it 1000 times He is better quality attacker than we have in this current Generations…We need to play him according to his strength….Belive me Wijnaldum can be a Great fals estriker for us..We have luxuary in DM
    Ake–Bazoer–Vandeebeek-Vilhena etc so why Gini ??

  4. Didnt realize we were on a new blog.

    I absolutely agree with what Balkan has said above “We harvested what we sowed” and its not good enough. I was trying to find the right words but couldn’t and what balkan said jus read my vs France his limitations and vs Bulgaria his strengths was was clearly under limelight.there is no denying that this was always going to be his prognosis from day 1 but yet the coaches invested in him, overlooking his weakness to his strengths,with the perception that with his intelligence he could provide the right balance but which was never going to yield.so it all comes down to why he was invested in the first place or why no one else for that matter. its not jus Daley Blind but others as well, Klaassen, propper, the midfield trio of sniejder, wijnaldum and strootman. I dont know whether this is the right word but its a “in house ” thing and is both the problem and solution itself. people need to change, the whole platform needs to change and the culture needs to change if they want to succeed in future.

    you look at De ligt. every one is saying he is probably the best defender Holland has produced in years. now if you look at Rick Van Drongelen he also is as good as him or even better but yet he has gone unnoticed jus because he was playing for sparta. this was very same situation with Van dijk when he was at Celtic and Veltman at Ajax, where he had to take the long road to proclaim the status he has now. you also look at todays game vs Bulgaria, propper would have received the golden boot for his performance today lol but the fact is, if he would
    have started vs france ,the goal margin would have been more.I mean where is all this gonna end. I was very excited to hear that Van ginkel will satrt but that never eventuated when he clearly has better potential and higher ceiling than propper whose play is mostly dictated by the tempo of the game.toornstra omission,same story. he was suppose to start in both games by all means.

    this cycle needs to break and good return will only come with a good investment.there is no two about this.

    there was alot things that was said in the previous blog about how player quality has dropped, this and that,which are all but jus fictitious.whats needed is fresh start with a right mindset.if GVB can bench kuyt and start toornstra,then you need people like him for NT job. with talents likes sinkgraven,Ake,Dumfries,van Drongelen, De Ligt, van crooy,stengs,Fesu Mensah,Kadioglu, kluivert, VDBeek and with some senior players like De Vrij,Van Dijk, Karsdorp, Van Ginkel,Depay,strootman,Wijnaldum,Locadia,Toornstra, Riedewald,Buttner,clasie, there is no doubt a with more game time a formidable team can be moulded.

  5. Daley Blind is a great footballer and very intelligent. He is just not very athletic. But when you judge someone you look at the totality. Daley overall is Oranje material. Tiju, please don’t argue…

    As per his Dad’s responsibility there is plenty to blame. Dick is not a super great coach but he would have us 1-3 points higher than where we are now and with a win against Sweden we would go to the play offs instead of resorting to voodoo to jinx Sweden. De Ligt was a mistake against Bulgaria but not the only one. His entire approach was off. Check the two games versus Luxemburg to see the diff between Danny and Dick.

  6. Jan honestly Im still cant believe you are saying all this when by all means it has proven that this was the most shittest period (36th ranking) off all time and only for Adovcaat to come and wipe it.luxumbourg managed to hold the very same french who demolished NT 4-0.doesnt this ring any alarm bell.I again acknowledge what Balkan said, NT doesnt desrve to qualify for WC on the expense of some other team who will do the dirty job for them.

    This was coming all along and nobody can deny the fact that it was under Danny Blind that the trajectory went wrong. You look at all the players he used to build the team around with. Willems, Blind,klaassen, propper wijnaldum. All this players need to go. Im suprised how come no one has picked up in every second consecutive game for NT wijnaldum is out of steam and becomes stray. This has really been the highlight of him in NT. They only are above average with lower ranked teams. As for Danny Blind,the alarm bells had started ringing when greek defeated them in Amsterdam. This was also the game which promot him him to realize the fact that Veltman was a disaster waiting to happen at RB.this is why I alway say the friendlys should be taken seriously because this is where things can be ironed out.
    Even if Danny would have continued till 2022, I still doubt he would qualifed NT to WC.the drought would have continued.

    Daley blind in pirlo role.if strootman couldnt do. What makes you think daley is the right guy for DM. How many times he has played there and during counter attack is in no mans land.it jus like building a house. You jus dont built for sunny days only. It no use building if it cant last in windy or rainy days. Yes daley has good vision,can take good corners, is intelligent but speed is his greatest weakness which nullifies everything and if lack speed how will he defend but you call him mr Reliable. Why waste time with again when you know with better mudfielders he will have ni chance. Why not Ake. I mean just try.he has all the qualities of a DM but the problem is he has been playing there. This is why I say a different approach is needed.look at Dier at Tottenham, luiz at Chelsea,Milner at liverpool.

    A fresh start is badly needed with some new faces. If NT qualifes for WC, well and good but I hope the KNVB will start preparing for aftermath of WC beforehand.

    1. I don’t know why you said Netherlands don’t deserve to go to the world cup and Sweden does. First of all, Netherlands are going to beat them next game and should’ve beat them the game before. And when we go to the world cup next year our team will be 100x better and we will have a chance of winning unlike Sweden who will be eliminated in group stages. And a DM does not need a lot of speed look at Matic. He is excelling at man u even though he is extremely slow. I think Daley could be a great DM but no one has thought to put him there

    2. “And I’d play Daley Blind in the Pirlo role. The 1 before defense. ***Not because of his defensive prowess***, but because we need his vision and passing to come from the central position. With 4 midfielders like Klaassen/Vilhena/Wijnaldum/Fer/Van de Beek/Van Ginkel/Promes/Memphis we should have enough cocktails of running, passing, dribbling and speed.”

      read carefully.

      also, if partnered by someone like Vilhena, I think Blind can do his job really well.

      does Pirlo the fast man? no. he’s as slow as Blind, IIRC. even in defensive awareness, Blind would win (due to his natural position as defender).

      also Blind has more experience there compared to your proposed AKE. he’s rarely playing last season, this season opener hasn’t really good for him.

      I also think that Strootman can also do the Pirlo role. just partner him with Vilhena. he need someone to do the dirty job.

  7. “”Daley blind in pirlo role.if strootman couldnt do. What makes you think daley is the right guy for DM.”””””…
    What Pirlo is doing exactly u must understand..Do u know what pirlo is doing??i am sure u do not know…
    second…if Strootman cannot so Daley cannot do????whats the logic behind that??
    FYI—-Strootman roma partner Radjanaingolan not even selected for Belgium..he is ruthlessly omitted…
    Daley Blind is one of the most intelligent player we have got,he do crosses like pper spray like Pirlo…All he need is strong alert Dm with him like De rossi,Dejong,kante etc…We have that in Ake and Bazoer…

    1. *we have that in Vilhena
      (currently)

      because Ake and Bazoer haven’t really done anything worth the merit. we can try them once they proved their worth.

      also, agreed on your Pirlo statement.

  8. I can’t wait for the next generation of dutch players to grow and become superstars. With players like sinkgraven,st.juste, de light, Dumfries, bazoer, bijlow, van de Beek, kadioglu, zivkovic, fosu Mensah, riedewald, bergwijn, mink, Rosario, van crooy, as well as players who will already become world class like depay, van dijk, tete, promes, and Janssen we will be unstoppable at euro 2020 and 2022

  9. Good analysis Jan. I agree with you and others that Daley was the best player yesterday. He has evolved into a real threat on the left side and I am sure he will get even better with Mourinho. As for the defensive mid position -the “Pirlo” one-, we have a player ready, well almost ready for prime time, Frenkie De Jong. He is the new Sergio Busquets. If you don’t believe me, please read below from Wim. Overall it was an ok performance but not enough change of pace from defense to attack. Modern football is all about transition. Case in point, the goal scored by Morata for Spain vs. Italy. Incredible and everyone should watch it to understand what football is all about.

    In oktober denken aan Vd Beek en De Jong’
    Developer, 04-09-2017 om 06:00, 14715 views, Algemeen Dagblad | <Een Ajax-kado geven?

    In zijn wekelijkse column in het Algemeen Dagblad heeft Willem van Hanegem geschreven over de huidige vorm van Oranje en hoe Nederland het WK in Rusland wel kan vergeten. De voormalig topspeler van Feyenoord stelt voor om spelers als Frenkie de Jong en Donny van de Beek een kans te geven tegen Wit-Rusland.

    Van Hanegem stelt dat Nederland in een dip zit die wellicht nog enkele jaren kan aanhouden. Hij stelt dan ook voor om alvast spelers te selecteren voor de lange termijn. 'Pak de grootste talenten, stel een selectie van dertig spelers samen en zorg ervoor dat die gasten door het vuur willen gaan voor Oranje. Kijk nu al naar jongens van 16, 17 of 18 jaar en ga aan de slag met die grote talenten, want die zijn er.' Als voorbeeld noemt De Kromme de 17-jarige Ben Woodburn die afgelopen week Wales voorbij Oostenrijk schoot. 'Leeftijd zegt weinig, maar instelling des te meer.'

    Van Hanegem heeft zo al zijn idee over een aantal spelers die tegen Wit-Rusland bij de selectie gehaald moeten worden. 'In oktober gaan we naar Wit-Rusland en eigenlijk zou je nu al aan jongens als Frenkie de Jong, Donny van de Beek en Tonny Vilhena moeten denken. Daar gaan we op lange termijn mee terugkeren op een acceptabel niveau.'

    1. Jeff, thanks for posting. Is it possible for anyone to translate the article (or at least leave a summary). I wouldn’t have equated De Jong with Busquets based on the limited times I’ve seen him…but if VH says it…So, I’d love to hear his observations.

    2. In his weekly column in the Algemeen Dagblad, Willem van Hanegem wrote about the current form of Orange and how the Netherlands can forget the World Cup in Russia. The former top player of Feyenoord proposes to give players such as Frenkie de Jong and Donny van den Beek a chance against Belarus.

      Van Hanegem claims that the Netherlands is in a dip that may last for a few years. He therefore proposes to select players for the long term. “Grab the biggest talents, set up a selection of thirty players and make sure those guys go through the fire for Orange. Look at boys of 16, 17 or 18 years old and get started with those great talents, because they are. ” For example, De Kromme mentions 17-year-old Ben Woodburn who shot Wales past Austria over the past week. ‘Age says little, but institution all the more.’

      Van Hanegem has so much idea about a number of players to be selected against Belarus. “In October we will go to Belarus and you should already think of boys like Frenkie de Jong, Donny van den Beek and Tonny Vilhena. We will return to this at an acceptable level in the long run. “

  12. so this is what simply happened!!!! sweden is above oranje by 6 goals only because advocaat and his staff are idiots to the point that not even one of the staff could notice to say we are playing bad lets at least keep the loss at 2-0!! DO NOT GIFT THE FRENCH TWO EXTRA GOALS.
    had we kept the loss at 2-0 against france, our life wouldve been much easier now, because Sweden would be at +4 instead of +6, which means we could’ve only needed to win against Belarus with an equal result to Sweden against Luxembourg. then we get to our final game against Sweden and the difference is still +4 then at that point all we need is a 2 goal difference against Sweden and we are above them!!!
    seriously everything that the management and the players are doing currently is embarrassing….

  13. one more thing to notice during these qualifications. this france team seemed to be this almighty only against oranje!!!!!!!!!they suffered a lot to beat sweden 2-1 in paris then they lost to them in sweden. they couldnt score against belarus and drew 0-0, they drew at home also against luxembourg 0-0. so 4 games against sweden, luxembourg and belarus they scored only 3 goals total, and in one game against oranje they scored 4. France is not as great as it seemed against oranje. if they were to play against spain or germany or even portugal they wouldnt look that fancy…

  14. Depay 9 is the best, please we all try to analyze the matches in an intelligent manner. It is nice to get excited by a 9-0 scoreline but that same team lost to Belgium and tied Portugal during the tournament they just played. None of the payers playing for the U19 team have made it on any of the Eredivisie top teams. Once they play regularly (like De Ligt, Kluivert and a few others), I will be more optimistic as Wim just said in his column in AD. Remember it is not the youth team performances that are important but rather the individuals within these teams. If any of these guys were good enough for the top team, they would already be on it. I hope you understand what we are all trying to say.

  15. My points..
    1-Do we lack quality??yes ..but only in forward line ..We dont have Mbhappe,Martial and Coman.But in midfeild and defense do we lack quality??I DONT THINK SO.yes may be few players lacks quality but we dont have to select them..
    2-We could have easily topped the group by even after loosing to France twice..had we won against Sweden in away matches..WE BLEW IT by bad coaching and wrong selection of players…
    3-We still have team who can reach world cup semifinal..Eg italy 2000Ec,germany2002WC,turkey2002WC,greece2004,portugal2016EC…
    i BLAME BLIND AND HIS WRONG CHOICES ONLY.
    its
    Danny Blind–1
    Stekelnberg-2
    Strootman–3
    they cost us this situation..

    1. We don’t lack quality if forwards. We have very exceptional forwards in depay Robben Janssen(once he plays regularly) promes. And once we call up boetius and kishna after great performances in the Eredivisie than we will only be better. If you compare us to Sweden on paper you wonder how that game isn’t 3,4 or 5-0

    1. @bitterbalen, yes my friend that’s all we got from strootman….plus his red card against France that caused the result to go 4-0 !!!!! He needs to not play for oranje anymore, he gets worse game after game for oranje.

    2. that’s a foul (to our NT), already equal to a red card. he should’ve been suspended. lol.

      seriously, he should’ve feel ashamed and just decline the next 3 callups.

  17. my only real concern now is who will lead the line in the next 2 games?

    I’m very pessimistic with Janssen. I think he won’t get less than 60 minutes in the first half of the season. all we will have is the same Janssen yesterday… or even worse.

    Dost, Van Persie, Huntelaar, De Jong brothers, Lens, Memphis… I hope one of them turns out spectacular form before the next 2 games.

    1. its easy Vanfadly if Janssen doesnt play much in spurs..he must be dropped,but we should not take Dost,hunter or RVP as strikers…We should go with Wijnaldum,lenz or even Roben in striker spot…
      We blessed in midifeild so we dont need strootman..look at our top qulaity midfeilders
      Ake,Vilhena,toonstra,Ginkel,van de beek,frenkie dejong,ramseelar,bazoer….Do we need strootman???
      Roben will lead the line like first 11
      Wijnaldum—Promes—-Roben
      ———-Toonstra———-
      —-Vilhena——Vande beek—-
      Blind—Virgil—Devrij—karsdorp
      ———-Cillessen—————
      second 11
      —-Depay/Mink/Anyone——–Babel–
      ———-Vanginkel—————
      Williams—Ake—Bazoer—-kevindiks
      —–Deligt–Bruma—–Mensah——-
      ———Padt/vermeer—————–

  18. Hello guys, It’s been too long since my last comment here. Hope you’re all fine. Great post by Jan, as always.
    It’s nice to see Jeff and Alaa back, too.

    Oranje is currently in a real bad situation. I have no idea if this is going to end any soon. Dutch clubs are miserable and only few Dutch players seem to have the qulity to start for top tier teams.

    On the other hand, I don’t know who is to blame for the current situation. Is it the KNVB ? or Dutch clubs management? I mean, is the KNVB responsible for the Ajax results not winning a Norwegian team?

    Jeff posted a great article about Cruyff Football which is led by Wim Jonk. It’s sad that Ajax let him leave. it really felt like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I have no idea why don’t the KNVB adopt this system and start implementing it into the dutch clubs, so we can be back with a top generation in 10 years or less.
    We need a new coach with new methods for the NT. Bring Erik Ten Hag and give him time like Germany did with Loew. may be he can start building a new young team from scratch, using De beek, F. De jong, and the other young lads.

    finally, If there is any reason I still want this Oranje to Qualify, It will be poor Robben. He totally deserves to end his international career playing at the World Cup. A true legend and a true leader who has been always performing for Oranje throughout his career, even when injured!

  19. Hi guys,

    Let me take some of my words back.

    In my post up top I said the coaches don’t have any influence and went a bit overboard with it.

    Your criticism as a result was justified.

    Of course, it does matter who the coach is.

    But it shouldn’t be used as an excuse.

    That is more my point. It’s so easy to slag off Hiddink, Blind, and now Advocaat as well.

    It’s so easy to blame one guy, fire him, and get the next one in.

    I think the problems we have are much greater than Hiddink or Blind getting the team selection wrong.

    I think this is ALWAYS a poor excuse. Like I said, playing Bulgaria away any defender can make a mistake (it’s part of the game!!) and we could concede against any opponent. Who cares?

    The trick is to score one more on the other end.

    Same with Janmaat vs Czech Republic. We had many chances and didn’t score enough. Defenders make mistakes. Forwards make mistakes. Referees make mistakes.

    If you think the problem is analysed enough with “Blind’s team selection got us in this mess” you make life very easy for yourself.

    (It’s my mum’s fault. It’s my dog’s fault. It’s my boss’ fault. My wife doesn’t understand me. Etc)

  20. I have been watching a lot of analysts about Oranje, been doing some homework and will come (hopefully) with a post soon that addresses some if not all of the issues…

  21. Andries Jonker of Wolfsburg was at De Tafel van Kees.

    They discussed Bazoer. Aad de Mos was there as well and he said something that Jonker told De Mos off camera. De Mos repeated it on national tv and the tv anchor (Kees) quickly said “Oh, Aad, I don’t think Jonker wanted you to share this…”

    Aad de Mos: “And Bazoer… Great prospect, but as Andries said before the broadcast, he’s got a mental issue.”

    Jonker quickly elaborated: “I think Bazoer will be a top player but he is not one now. There is no discussion about his best position: right midfield. But he has trouble playing consistent. We played one match in the pre-season and the opposing coach told me after the match: that guy will be going to a big club next season. But the game vs Dortmund for the Liga, Bazoer was dreadful. He’s 20 years old but he’s not mature yet mentally. He has trouble playing consistent. So yes, he’ll get there but he needs more time to learn this.”

    So, this will end the Tiju Rants for Bazoer for a while I guess?

    PSV let Bazoer go. Peter Bosz/Ajax let Bazoer go. Danny Blind/Advocaat let him go.

    2. Yes Jan He might have consistency issue with some mental problem.i did felt like he little rebel.But he is top notch player,we need him,he can be as good as pogba..We need him…then yes PSV let him go,Ajax let him go,all these are for reason like u said metal/rebel etc…But DannyBlind let him go for no SH$%%%T reason,especially he played some splendid game for us…we won those games as well..Blind reshuffed,destabilsed even after winning games..past 2 years Blind has done enough dmage to NT and he played significant role in bringing us to 36 rank..I DONT THINK WE LACK QUALITY IN DEFENSE AND MIDFEILD…what we lack is in forwards..coz there is no more Roben,RVP etc..

          1. But Danny did some atrocious calls..yes queue..whats that queue players done??We saw toonstra,Vilhena,Ake playing under fred grim…
            Danny was always Ringa Ringa Rose..
            One day he will select Virgil and Bazoer,both will play well and we will win,then he will drop both for Daley Blind and Propper…
            Greece exposed Daley Blind so Virgil got his place back…Poor Bazoer lost to Strootman,wijnaldum,propper and klassen.and we lost games with pathetic display…

  25. I have been watching Holland playing since 1988. The first time I watched them playing, and they were crowned champion of Europe.

    I never thought I had to wait until now… all these years and they are a step away from world cup champions.

    Let’s be honest guys. We will be playing world cup. But that will be World Cup 2022.

    We are out of the World cup already. From the moment I realized it was the goal differences that counts, I already knew its all over.

    Yes for sure, we will will hear voices, we don’t give up, and we still got a chance bla bla..

    But being realistic, I think we may score 5-0, we will still eventually lose by a small margin.

    MIracles don’t happen every day. We can blame Blind or Hiddink, but the most responsible ones are ourselves.

    Its cruel, but lets just face the facts.

    2. Yan, the irony is that in the past we almost always ended up a campaign with highest scored goals and best goal difference in all european groups. We’ve never been with such terrible stats before. If only Luxembourg can pull a France in Sweden. I predict Sweden winning by at least 4 goals.

  27. Well having said so ….

    I will change my mind if we win 8-0 for the next game against Belarus !

    Can anyone here tell me what team selection we need in order to score 8 to 10 goals against Belarus ? Is it possible ?

    Should we go for an all attack 433?

    I would go for :

    Fosuh mensah – de vrij – van dijk – blind

    Wijnaldum- ake – vilhena
    Propoer

    Robben depay

  29. So I decided to watch the U21 team play Scotland. My goodness, how horrible is it? There is not one player worth choosing except for De Jong who seems completely lost in this nightmare. We can’t even make one pass, let alone 3 passes in a row. I am so disappointed. All the players that our friend “Depay9 is the best” claims should play on the national team are so poor technically I hope they actually never play for the real oranje. I have never seen such dramatically poor players technically. Not encouraging to be totally outclassed by….Scotland.

    1. First of all I specifically said they shouldn’t be in the National team yet because they are too young. And 2, have you learned nothing from watching soccer. It was one game and that doesn’t decide everything. They had a bad game just like every single team does at one point. Doesn’t mean they are awful and there is no individual talent. They made a couple mistakes that is why they lost. Not because they are an awful team. If you count every game are you saying Luxembourg is equal to France because they tied them.

      1. it always good to see coaches do different things especially when he has jus taken over the office job. Art Langeler tried some thing new which is good.it worked vs England but didn’t vs Scotland. end of story. kind of agree with Depay 9is best has said. one bad game doesn’t mean the whole team is bad. I think Langeler preferred players who are active to those who did play previously but are not active in their teams. sam Lammers and Pelle Van P. van Amersfoort etc. next round will be crucial and the games vs Andorra, Latvia and Ukraine should be used wisely to get the best combination going and with the right formation.

  30. I won’t go into a shouting match and silly argument with you too. They are terrible, period. Not one of these players except maybe Bergwin and De jong will make it. It is not one bad match they had, believe me. They could not trap the ball, make any kind of passes, create runs. We are stuck again with heavy center backs without any kind of speed, wing backs who are so poor technically and wingers who can’t beat their guys one on one. Sorry but ask Ad De Mos and company. Jong Oranje slecht!!

    1. I dont know where you get your facts from but Pirie will become a world class CB. I don’t know why you hate the Netherlands so much I haven’t seen you comment one good thing about them

      1. No idea who that “Pirie” is. Again I have been a fan since I first saw Ajax in 1971 play Panathaikos in Wembley. So no need for name calling. Go on any Dutch blogs and you will see what people are saying. I don’t recall exactly the stats but I know that in 2010 at the WC in South Africa, the Eredivisie was one of the top 5 leagues represented at the world cup, not any more. We will be lucky if we have one player that makes any of the teams that ultimately qualify. That is the real problem, our league is so bad that we can no longer compete. My comments are truly out of concern. Believe me, I wish it was different.

  31. It seems that Holland will not be able to qualify to Russia. Too many “if” conditions to fulfill:
    1. If they can beat Belarusia AND Sweden
    2. If they can beat Belarusia AND Sweden with lots of goals. And if Sweden ONLY score with MINIMUM goal.

      1. I still don’t understand.

        If, Holland beat Belarusia 4-0, and at the same time Sweden beat Luxembourg 4-0, meaning that the difference of goal difference is still the same: 6. So, Holland still have to score 6 goals to Sweden in the last match.

          1. If we score 1 against Sweden, Sweden loses a goal from their difference as well. So we score 3 and Sweden loses 3. Then we’re even. Get it?

  35. Locadia- El Ghazi

    Depay

    Sinkgraven-Ake- Vilhnea- Karsdorp

    Riedewald- Van Dijk-De ligt

    Cillesen/ zoet

    This is how I would like see NT start fresh after this tragedy ends.

    1. Elghazi is a Joker…Foolish stupid player.
      Locadia or Promes i dont know who is better..
      Raidwald is good at distribution only..he is prone to leakage…thats why he sits even with Deboer at crystal palace..

  36. I think in order to cover all the bases we should just beat Belarus 15-0. Then we can just easily beat Sweden 1-0 and it’s over. Shouldn’t be that hard. 😂
    I think some of you are confusing Holland with Germany or Spain. Those times are over fellas.

  39. sorry, got to add some more bad news. Looks like the 8 2nd best teams that will be given a chance to qualify, will be broken in two groups before the draw. The two groups will be based on FIFA rankings so Portugal will not draw Italy. Based on our ranking, we will be most likely placed in the weak group 🙁

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