Players' Talk

Wesley Sneijder is convinced we will beat the Germans. “It can’t be that I have been playing qualification games for two years only for us to go home after three matches?!”.

The little big man has made his way to the press after the “closed off practice session”. The media wanted to see Van Persie and Huntelaar too but these two decided to pass the opportunity on. Sneijder: “I get that. There has been so much humbug around those two. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is an expert.”

The Inter playmaker told the coach what his preference is. “But I’m sure you will accept it if I don’t tell you about it, hahaha. And it’s not that important, what I say. They’re both world class striker. And the coach decides. What is key, is that everyone is totally focused against Germany. The heads need to be free from stress and shit.”

Sneijder knows Oranje needs to play different against Germany. “We missed a lot of chances and opportunities but we also lacked discipline. At a certain point, everybody was out of position. That is killing, even against so-called smaller football nations. Against Germany, we need to be watertight. They are so quick in the turnaround. They beat us recently in the friendly and at the World Cup they eliminated England and Argentina.”

When confronted with the hilarious “egoland vs legoland” headline of that Belgium paper, he smiles. “It’s normal that some players have a bigger ego now. Huntelaar is the Bundesliga top scorer. Of course he wants to play. And De Jong won the title in England. He is allowed to be pissed off when he’s subbed. And I don’t hear anyone talk about Kuyt. But he was a starter for many years and now he’s benched and you don’t hear him, do you? All credits for Dirk.”


How do you do this exactly? Controlling the ball with the chin?

Is the vibe different then 2 years back? “Of course. We won everything until the finals. And listen, we don’t have to be all mates, do we? This group will stick together though and will not disperse into little clans. If that happens, I will lash out. Because I’m here to win this.”

Robin van Persie is Oranje’s first penalty taker. This is what Robben said. Holland deserved a penalty in the Denmark game and Arjen Robben told the media that if the ref would have given it, it would have been Van Persie behind the ball.”

Rafa van der Vaart is a little bit down. The 97 times capped midfielder can’t see a major role for himself, despite his passionately desired starting berth.

“I have to face it, the chance is small that the coach changes something. I think Van Marwijk has his team in his head and I’m not in it. We have seen that he doesn’t change a lot. That is great when you are in the starting eleven but sucks when you are on the bench.”

The media suggested that he was mentally bruised. Van der Vaart shrugs that off. “That is highly exaggerated. I never said that. But it is true that it is hard for me to be totally eager and motivated every day. Some days are easier than others. I am simply disappointed. I give it my all but it doesn’t change a thing. I will always give 100% during practice because the squad deserves this. And I love the game too much to ever wing it, you know. And I don’t think players should demand things or slam their fist on the table. As a player, you have to accept what the coach wants. Simple. But I do believe I have a right to voice my disappointment….”

The Spurs midfielder was allowed 20 minutes against Denmark. “That didn’t go too well… It was a mess that last phase. Everyone was out of position. The field was too long… I tried to take risks in my passing but they didn’t connect. What a game. First I had to wait 10 minutes before the ball went out of play. It sucks, I am in form and I want to be important for the team…”

The desire to win a prize is huge in Arjen Robben. The 28 year old Bayern winger realises that one doesn’t get too many chances to win one.

Robben feels it has to happen now, at this Euros. But we do need to wipe the disgracefull loss against Denmark of the board. And we can do so against Germany. Losing most likely means going home.

“It’s all or nothing against Germany,” Robben says. The ex Groningen player doesn’t enjoy finals. As if these games are jinxed. Twice this season, he could touch the main prize but twice he saw it evaporate thanks to him missing a penalty. First against Dortmund for the title and secondly against Chelsea for the CL.

“That last one was a massive blow. We had a match point a number of times and you fail. That is tough. I though, my Lord, I won’t win anything ever again. I need time to give that one a spot, you know. And the facts are not goodL I played one World Cup finals and two CL finals and lost them all. But then again, to lose them you do need to get there and play them… There’s still lots of players who will never even play a World Cup finals.”

Will you carry this with you into the Germany game? “No, I don’t think so. But it hurts. And it still hurts thinking about it. The Chelsea one in particular, we were so close and we deserved it so much. We were totally dominating the game. But it doesn’t count. This is something I will have to live with.”

Do you believe in a higher power? “No, I don’t have any faith or religion or anything. But I do wonder: why does this happen…That last time, I actually wanted to quit altogether. Like I won’t win this ever so let’s retire. But then I go: I still have a couple of good years in me so I can still win it.”

So what is the best trophy you won? “The title with Bayern was pretty good. My first season at Bayern was tremendous. The lost World Cup finals doesn’t count as a trophy. Second places don’t count.”

And so, the former PSV, Chelsea and Real Madrid winger still waits on his big trophy. With another finals around the corner. “It’s all or nothing. But we’re confident. We need to win and we will win. And then we will turn this thing around.”


Robben is practicing attacking the referee against Germany

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157 comments

  1. What I get from this is that internally the situation is fucked up. Too many are disappointed and bored. It can’t be good.
    Hup Holland for maybe a last time this yr.

  2. Oooh guys from today papers: Telegraaf is reporting Oranje has trained with new system including BOTH Hunter and Persie…

    Dont get too thrilled… its the Telegraaf! But might be true.

  3. Agree with you Balkan. Now when they lost the 1st match all the differences and dissatisfactions came out of the closet again 🙁
    I just hope that those guys who play turn all this mess in our favour and show on to the world that they are worth of the ORANGE shirt!!
    But they have to do it like a team with do or die fighting spirit and a lot of pace (direct passing), if everyone of them will be trying to win a match singlehandidly, then we are OUT..
    I was thinking a lot these last days what happened to this team since the wolrd cup – and came to conclusion:
    FRAN DE BOERs passion as assistant on the sides is missing most! I dont see Cocu or BvM on the sidelines yealling, motivating, directing..
    STILL HAVE HOPES THOUGH – HUP HOLLAND HUP!!!

  4. They did lose a whole lot in the run up to the tournament, ever since they lost from Sweden its been trouble. I think as long as they won the players kept their mouth shut. But when you start losing its easier to utter your crisicism of the playing system/style. Between the lines Sneijder seemed to say the players want to play differently than currently = as in 2 defensive players etc.

    I blame Bert for not recognizing the inevitable time bomb his ultra conservative approach in the playing style and creating an unhealthy kind of rivalry between his best strikers.

    They need to change things and get the team reaching their level. I am personally not very optimistic about our chances but nonetheless of course I hope they win.

    If they are the superstar contenders for the title they like to profess they are.. then now is the time to adapt, and shine.

  5. Other then Robben’s statement I think Sneijder and VDV should keep there freakin mouths shut! Especially Sneijder!! There’s enough media and tension on us after 1 freakin game!

    His comments suggest there is a lot of controversey in the system and as a team. For him to make comments re: RVP and KJH and who he told BVM who he wanted to play is just a slap in the face too RVP!!

    We all know Wes and RVP don’t fet along, but as a proffessional he should no better and think does this help or hurt the team now!? Stupid idiot!

    He should learn from his praise he had for KUYT not complaining! Its ok for us to complain all day long but when the media is on us like white on rice why are you throwing gas on the fire!?

    Had no idea Robben was that affected by losses, but I guess since WC they have been stock piling. Understand but retiring?? To me that’s suicide at 28!

  6. Sneijder is the kingpin of this team – he should have a say in the team makeup….. RvP should be out, everyone can see it except the diehard Arsenal fans….KJH is our only hope of winning this tournament

    1. Agree 100 percent! Everyone knows it including RVP, and as much as I don’t like the guy, I think its important his own team don’t kick him while he is down. I just think it would be best if kept his comments to th coach and not to the media.

      We are known for years if internal fighting within the organization! The media are like blood hounds right now and its important we don’t give them something to blow out of proportion and create a frenzy!!

    2. Ed – with all due respect, RVP was MPV of the Premiership. They don’t hand that out non-locals unless they deserve it. He played poorly in the match, but many others played anxiously.

      Hope for better for all tomorrow.

    1. Atheism is not disturbing. It is simply this crazy idea that bases the origins of our planet and species on factual scientific evidence. I know…insane!!!

      1. 1. It was a Star Wars quote. You know, Darth Vader, etc.

        2. I’m actually surprised that Robben didn’t answer the question with “Yeah. Me.”

        3. I’ll be praying that Holland plays their best.

  7. I think things are being blown out of proportion. Had they said the same thing while they are winning, their words would have carried almost no value. I do think this is a tight group – for the first time I see them all humble, all wanting to work together and that is a good thing. They were UNLUCKY in the game against the Danes and there is no reason to worry on the front 4 or I think it would be 5 now. I see them playing 3-2-4-1… this is how BvM played last 15 minutes in the game against the Danes. This game is all or nothing and if we create half the amount of chances against Germany and score 1/4 of the chances, we’d be 3 goals in. Germans were unconvincing against Portugal and should have lost really.

    KEEP YOUR HOPES UP! BELIEVE!
    HUP HOLLAND HUP!

    1. ya, but the last 15 minutes against the Danes they had the least chances and possession. As the article above demonstrates, VDV and co said they were all out of position…

      1. they probably did not anticipate being down late in the game and did not plan ahead, I’m guessing there was no plan B for such a case which explains why they were out of position.

        1. but none of the three subs were pressing for the ball. In fact, had no substitution being made, they would have had a greater chance of tying the game. VDV is played way out of position when he comes in as a DM. He either goes on attack or is simply useless in that position. He would only work as a number 10. And Sneijder is just a better player than he is. Putting Either of them on the wings makes no sense since they will never be as a good as a true winger, Arjen or Ibrahim. So that only leaves one real change, RVP or Hunter. They both had chances and they both lost them. In my view, we were more dangerous with RVP alone on the field than with both of them.

  8. Have only one star player on the team, in midfield, surrounded by average players and they might go far. Have a team of superstars and they will go nowhere.

    “An army with no general is much stronger than an army with two superqualified Generals”

    ~Napoleon

  9. Sam, yes they are humble but it took a couple of eredivisie danes to acheive this. And dont forget we werent just unlucky we played poorly, we squandered because our mentality lacked…. when you enter a game listless then you also likely will miss your chances. A team that fights and wants to win often forces its own luck. So the missing of the chances came from playing with the wrong mentality. Netherlands need to change mentality or we will be out in 24 hrs.

    1. you have to take the game dynamic into account. when a player squanders 3 or 4 chances in the game, that affects the player and he starts believing it’s not his game.

      I honestly think there was one problem with the game plan. Defense to offense transition was slow – they did not try to break down the game with counter-attacking football. When you have Afellay and Robben on two flanks, you should always allow the opposing teams to hold the ball a bit more often. Possession football will hurt you because neither one of those two will (or even should) track back. You should invite some pressure from the other team and then break then down with killer runs. I think it has to do with the fact that everyone is so fixated on Barcelona and their posession football and want every team to apply it.

      1. Sam: the ball posession was sthg like 54-46 and this is far from barcelona possession game (usually 70-30,at least). oranje should have tried more possession, more pressure on the opponent when they had the ball,and more precisely build up instead of desperately shooting.

        1. Agreed and I think that is the main reason we lost. There were no fast counter-attacks. I saw the game twice and twice I noticed how RvP or Sneijder had to hold up the play on the counter-attack and pass side ways or backwards because there was no one upfront (i.e. Robben and Afellay) were too deep “tracking back”! The whole reason we play with 2 DMs is to give Robben and Afellay the chance to not track back. At times, they played 4-5-1 which kills the counter-attack. I’m just saying.

      2. Yes the failing did affect our players but we started all wrong, slow paced , no passion. And I was shocked that our players lost confidence in themselves so quickly. Persie is UK topscorer and stumbled over his feet like a junior high kid on his prom night.

      1. Van Bommel is not starting and probably won’t all game unless dutch have significant lead.

        It was stated in the trlegraph today, that sneijder is taking his spot, and RVP taking wes’s.

        Robben on left Affelay on right, and of course hunter in the striker posistion

        Here we go Hup! Holland Hup!!

    1. Unfortunately, this is what is likely to happen – it all depends on if Holland scores first and early – that would put the Germans on their back foot and would force them to come out and play.

  10. Holy mackerel, what a sad read.

    Dutch whinging is legendary, but this is a topper.

    If these boys can’t pull up their didies and get on with it, it really is time for the youngsters to come up.

    Hope they got it out of their systems and will take the fight to the Germans.

    OZO!

  11. I just read VDV saying the Germans have no quality players. Can this boy shut his mouth? Van der Vaart isn´t even a starter for Oranje, I think his ego is like a time bomb in the bench disrupting team spirit, after the Euros I would never call him up again.

    I am sure most players are very eager to show the world they are able to win this game vs. our arcrivals the Germans. There will be two changes according to some specialists and the press: Mathijsen for Vlaar and Huntelaar for Afellay. Losing Afellay in the left won´t be that bad since we saw that when Sneijder played that role against the Danes he did even better that in the center so it will make sense to me even if it´s to bench Afellay because we lose Ibi but we have the top scorers of the Premier League and Bundesliga upfront. And if Robben is so depressed and doesn´t deliver in the first half then use there Afellay or Kuyt. RVP can´t have another game like against the Danes, he will deliver.

    I am positive…all this tension will make the team play very focused. I think we´ll win. I don´t care the scoreline but just winning!!!

  12. @Sam, Yes the failing did affect our players but we started out all wrong, we were slow paced , no passion, we wasted our chances. So the game turned against us. The danes could not belive their luck and we walked around like WE were suffering. This was Denmark they could not even give the cross up front, and gave us the ball to score in their own box. And I was shocked that our players lost confidence in themselves so quickly. Persie is UK topscorer and stumbled over his feet like a junior high kid on his prom night.

  13. Jan thanks for your new attempt..i am happy that i dont have to yell against kuyt any more he is on bench…
    i support BVM for least next two games in this late moment …i see it coming..he is reaping reward of his biased management….Bruma would have been a superb combo with heitinga thats what i belive.
    TO others
    it was a an unluckyday but orange would have won that match if persie played as left winger and KJH as striker…end of the story….
    i am not going to blAme anyone …they all played well..
    but the reason behind defeat was
    1VERY BIG MISTAKE FROM BVM
    2BAD LUCK
    3BLIND REFEREE
    THATS IT
    LETS PRAY FOR THE FUTURE OF ORANGE

  14. Starting line up for Germany reported in telegraph

    Huntelaar
    Robben————–Affelay
    RVP
    De jong—-Sneijder

    Willems Vander
    Mathijsen—Hettinga

    1. Whoops that’s not the way I tried to send it.

      Basicly same as starting for dnmark with exception of flipping wingers and puttin KJH @ stiker and droping RVP to Sneijders spot and Sneijder takes Van bommels spot.backs are overlapping also.

      So in a nut shell, they’ve addressed almost everything we had concerns with.

        1. I spoke with my father who is fluent in dutch, and he didn’t say anything about a readers poll.

          I will do my best to translate shortly when I have time to read.

  15. Oh no. VDV… please shut your big mouth already. Why would you want to incense Ze Germans when they are under no pressure and you are facing annihilation?

  16. Wow. I never considered VdV a great player just a good one. Especially the last season he looks so tired and old. He is not even a regular player for Tottenham. But I always respected him as a good guy, a good character, a team player. But with all this shit coming out of his mouth at such critical time I lost all that respect. STFU jackass.

    Re: Robben’s state of mind I really feel sorry for him. But that’s what psychologists are for and I bet there are a few good ones in Holland.

      1. Theory?!?! It’s a fact. I have followed EPL every week and many games VdV has started from the bench, not to mention being substituted on a regular basis. It is just a handful games that he started and finished.

        1. And you can name these games?

          Evidence please. Or it didn’t happen.

          Because as a Spurs fan, with a season ticket, I would trust my own eyes over your unsubstantiated comments.

          In future, before you type something that simply isn’t true, it’s probably best to think how it might come back to bite you in the ass.

          Have a good day.

          1. bert, he is right. i watch the games too and am part of a premier league fantasy… obviously VDV left certain games early due to fatigue but he hasn’t been the same player throughout the course of the season. his form has dipped, his energy level is down, and he is at best a #2 to sneijder for NL… don’t get me wrong, at times he shows amazing skill and talent but he has shown tired legs of late and is not the same player he once was… also, he should not have handled the media as poorly as he has…

            i actually enjoy watching spurs play and if VDV had been more consistent they might have finished in the top 3 …..

  17. Did VDV really say that? It’s the last thing this team needs. It’s like questioning the manhood of your opponent. Even if it’s a meaningless game, they’ll be more motivated to teach him a lesson, let alone a crucial game in a major tournament.

    Robben doesn’t believe in a higher power? I don’t want to change this into a religious or philosophical point but having faith helps your spirits. I think he’s so low on confidence that it would help him become mentally stronger.

    1. ‘having faith helps your spirits.’

      What’s a spirit? As a practicing Doctor, I would be very interested to learn more about such things. Fascinating.

      In addition, could you provide us with an example of when faith has been more beneficial than knowledge? I would be very interested to learn more about such an occasion. Fascinating.

      1. Wow, SamDC never asserted any of those things. No need to be aggressive. He expressed a view on something stated in the article… That is all.

        Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

      2. Why do doctors always have to point out “i’m a doctor” – I would like to go out on a limb and say WHOOP DEE DOO…

        I’ve met plenty of stupid doctors. 12 years of school doesn’t give someone the right to act like a pompous ass

        1. As a stand-up comedian, I have to remind you that should you ‘go out’ on your limb, you will in fact need a real Doctor. Fascinating.

          1. Dr Bert are you on a mission to achieve the highest accolade in human idiocy ? What’s the problem mate ? We are all stressed from the first match. Just have a couple of strong drinks and get over it.

  18. There is no change in plan for the Dutch, which was to win all the matches in the group! We never went all the way, when we started with a flyer in 2008 and 2010. The GOALS will now follow, it is very unlikely for such high prolific strikers in RVP and JKH not to score in back to back matches… RVP should loosen himself, he tends to let the pressure build up on him in all oranjes matches…

  19. wow, i guess with our arguing we are mirroring the actions of our players and team..

    what both the team and WE need to do is collect ourselves and move forward from here… we need to stand behind each other and behind our team so that they can prevail!!

    Hup holland

  20. How well could RVP play in Sneijder’s position? And how well could Sneijder playing moving back? It is annoying that Dutch didn’t beat Denmark when they deserved to, just as Bayern deserved to win the CL. But that is what’s aggravating about football.

    I too would like to see the Dutch counter more quickly–they have great players for that. Whenever you slow it down for a buildup, the opposing players get back and your chances of scoring usually disappear.

  21. From Gaol.com:

    ‘After an inspired final training session, the Dutch camp has announced that coach Bert Van Marmalade plans to reshuffle his team for the forthcoming match against group rivals Germany. Having taken advisement from an as yet unknown internet source, Robin Van Persil will now wear the Keeper’s jersey ahead of team-mate Maarten Stickleback.

    “Those guys on the net really know their shit” said an upbeat Van Marmalade in this evening’s press conference, “I cannot understand why I never paid attention to them before.”

    Stickleback was not available for comment.’

    Fascinating.

  22. Ya sorry guys for the speculative news! Apparently the lineup in Telegraph was speculation.

    My father was probably excited and skipped right to the nuts and bolts, and forgot to read the fine print.

    Friiiiickkk! Let hope!!

  23. This is for Nad who was still trying to question Huntelaar’s record and ability for Holland, while falsely assuming van Persie has ever been a big game striker for Holland. The EPL propaganda, hype machine puts some people into deluded state of mind, but over in Holland we know the truth. Given the same level playing field in Oranje, same players around them etc, Huntelaar is the better striker. An analysis of both players in the 4 year period since August 2008 when van Marwijk took charge:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/e1otnf

    Download and read it.

    This proves without any further doubt that Huntelaar is Holland’s best striker. 20 sub appearances and only 21 starts (18 goals from those 21 starts, and 23 goals in total) in this 4 year period means that someone else was preferred to start up front on those 20 occasions when he was on the bench. That person more often than not was van Persie with 36 starts in total, and yet Huntelaar still outscored him in every critical area of comparison.

    The Conclusions:

    (1) The average FIFA Ranking of all the teams both players scored against was almost exactly the same (Avg Ranking: RVP 77 / KJH 80)
    (2) However Huntelaar was the one who scored a brilliant goal and changed the game against the highest ranked opponent on the list (England – FIFA Rank No.5 in Feb 2012)
    (3) Huntelaar is the one with the superior goal ratio vs FIFA TOP 10 Ranked teams despite hardly ever getting to start in big games (only 3 starts vs FIFA Top 10 sides compared to 9 starts for van Persie, and both scored 1 goal)
    (4) Huntelaar has scored more goals for Holland despite being given 548 minutes less playing time than van Persie (equivalent to 6 full matches and 8 minutes less playing time)
    (5) Huntelaar is also the one yet again who scored more goals away from home, where most teams are usually harder to beat (Away Goals: RVP 2 away goals, KJH 7 away goals)
    (6) Huntelaar proved that he is the more consistent goalscorer, scoring in more games in a row, and against more teams in total
    (7) An incredible 53 goals for club and country just this season alone (54 if you include Bayern v Holland), in addition to these critical facts is further proof that Huntelaar is Holland’s best striker.

    Now If van Persie can do what he is supposed to do then everything will be fine and there will be no problem. We will all rejoice.
    But – as long as he keeps failing however, then there can be no justification for Marwijk to keep ignoring Holland’s best striker.

    ——————————-

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/09/3161169/van-persie-fails-to-prove-that-he-is-more-important-to

    Van Persie fails to prove that he is more important to Netherlands than Huntelaar
    The Arsenal striker failed to live up to expectations as a sub-standard Dutch side kicked off their campaign in the Group of Death with a shock defeat

    9 Jun 2012 20:45:00

    COMMENT
    By Peter McVitie | Netherlands Expert

    Ever since the heart-breaking defeat to Spain in the 2010 World Cup final, Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk has faced immense pressure to field a team which consists of both Arsenal striker Robin van Persie and Schalke star Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

    In the build-up to Euro 2012 there was much speculation in the Dutch media about the possibility of both strikers making the starting XI after they each enjoyed great seasons in their respective leagues, and the general consensus was that both hitmen would be in the first-team.

    But Van Marwijk rejected the calls of the nation and stuck to his guns, lining up against Morten Olsen’s Denmark in their opening game of the competition with Van Persie up front, Huntelaar on the bench and two holding midfielders in Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong.

    Throughout the match, a lack of attacking intent was evident as employing two holding midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 makes it very difficult for the Netherlands to threaten with pace and in numbers. Attempts to stretch the backline were both feeble and too few, and one of those defensive midfielders should have been sacrificed much earlier than the 70th minute when Rafael van der Vaart replaced De Jong.

    Robin Van Persie’s poor first touch and tendency to move outside of the box, either out wide or deep towards midfield, means he isn’t the right person to start as a sole centre-forward for the national team. As they burst forward, attacks eventually fall apart as Van Persie drops away from the edge of the box to retrieve the ball, leaving a void in an area in which a centre-forward would be.

    The Arsenal man, who scored 37 goals in all competitions this past club season, needs someone to play off him and expects the likes of Afellay, Robben and Sneijder to cover those areas for him. There is only one person the Dutch can rely on to utilise the space Van Persie leaves.

    That is Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

    The Schalke striker – who was top-scorer in Euro 2012 qualifying – netted 29 goals in the Bundesliga in 2011-12, and his record in all competitions was 48 goals in 47 games. But he is much more than a poacher – his workrate and link-up play are aspects of his game which are continuously underrated.

    The lack of understanding between the frontline were evident throughout the majority of the first-half, yet the Netherlands remained unchanged as they emerged for the second period. The problems continued until 20 minutes from time when van der Vaart and Huntelaar replaced De Jong and Ibrahim Afellay, respectively.

    The coach was far too slow to react to the problems in his team, and the damaging defeat to Denmark is proof that Van Marwijk needs to find a balance to combine the movement and style of Van Persie and the prowess and potency of Huntelaar.

    With the so-called easiest match of Group B out of the way for Netherlands, no more mistakes can be made in their two remaining pool games against Germany and Portugal if the Dutch are to avoid an embarrassing first-round exit.

  24. This is for Nad who was still trying to question Huntelaar’s record and ability for Holland, while falsely assuming van Persie has ever been a big game striker for Holland. The EPL hype machine puts some people into a deluded state of mind, but over in Holland we know the truth. Given the same level playing field in Oranje, same players around them etc, Huntelaar is the better striker.

    An analysis of both players in the 4 year period since August 2008 when van Marwijk took charge:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/e1otnf

    Download and read it.

    This proves without any further doubt that Huntelaar is Holland’s best striker. 20 sub appearances and only 21 starts (18 goals from those 21 starts, and 23 goals in total) in this 4 year period means that someone else was preferred to start up front on those 20 occasions when he was on the bench. That person more often than not was van Persie with 36 starts in total, and yet Huntelaar still outscored him in every critical area of comparison.

    The Conclusions:

    (1) The average FIFA Ranking of all the teams both players scored against was almost exactly the same (Avg Ranking: RVP 77 / KJH 80)
    (2) However Huntelaar was the one who scored a brilliant goal and changed the game against the highest ranked opponent on the list (England – FIFA Rank No.5 in Feb 2012)
    (3) Huntelaar is the one with the superior goal ratio vs FIFA TOP 10 Ranked teams despite hardly ever getting to start in big games (only 3 starts vs FIFA Top 10 sides compared to 9 starts for van Persie, and both scored 1 goal)
    (4) Huntelaar has scored more goals for Holland despite being given 548 minutes less playing time than van Persie (equivalent to 6 full matches and 8 minutes less playing time)
    (5) Huntelaar is also the one yet again who scored more goals away from home, where most teams are usually harder to beat (Away Goals: RVP 2 away goals, KJH 7 away goals)
    (6) Huntelaar proved that he is the more consistent goalscorer, scoring in more games in a row, and against more teams in total
    (7) An incredible 53 goals for club and country just this season alone (54 if you include Bayern v Holland), in addition to these critical facts is further proof that Huntelaar is Holland’s best striker.

    Now If van Persie can do what he is supposed to do then everything will be fine and there will be no problem. We will all rejoice.
    But – as long as he keeps failing however, then there can be no justification for Marwijk to keep ignoring Holland’s best striker.

    1. Your whole argument falls apart on the premise that Van Persie played alot of his games as a winger and Huntelaar played every single minute as the first striker.

      1. No Nad, it’s actually your whole argument which falls apart. I even laid it out clearly for you in plain English so that you couldn’t come back with the false excuse that van Persie hasn’t played as striker enough times, as I already suspected that you might try that one. The truth is van Persie has played plenty of times up front, certainly enough times to be able to compare.

        So let me break it down for you again, and pay attention this time:

        ON the 20 occasions that Huntelaar was a sub, someone else was preferred up front. And more often than not, that “someone else” was none other than van Persie.

        First let us remind ourselves that Huntelaar has only started 21 games under Marwijk. Those 21 games amounted to a total of 1667 mins. He scored 18 goals from those 21 starts. As a sub he appeared 20 times or a total of 497 mins, scoring 5 times. So, in total he’s played as Holland striker under Marwijk for 2164 minutes, from which he scored 23 goals.

        Now let’s look back at some matches just before the WC when van Persie was constantly preferred as the first striker, evident by his wearing of no.9 and also by clearly being deployed through the centre, if you watched those games.

        van Persie specific pre-WC games:
        A-Italy (4) Int Start- off 15, Played 15 mins
        H-Mexico (17) Int Start- off 63, Played 63mins, 2 goals
        H-Ghana (32) Int Start- Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        H-Hungary (57) Int Start- off 67, Played 67 mins, 1 goal
        Total mins/goals: 4 starts, 0 sub, 235 mins, 4 goals

        Huntelaar’s role during the above games:
        Italy (4) Int Sub- on 15, Played 75 mins
        Mexico (17) Int Sub- on 63, Played 27 mins
        Ghana (32) Int Unused Sub
        Hungary (57) Int Sub- on 67, Played 23 mins
        Total mins/goals: 0 starts, 3 sub, 125 mins, 0 goals

        So that was 4 games, or 235 minutes, where van Persie was the first striker.

        Now if you look at the WC itself, you’ll see that van Persie started up front as striker in every single game. Huntelaar only got to play when van Persie came off, but still scored the same amount of goals despite receiving only a tiny fraction of van Persie’s playing time.

        van Persie WC games:
        N-Denmark (36) WC Start- off 76, Played 76 mins
        N-Japan (45) WC Start- off 87, Played 87 mins
        N-Cameroon (19) WC Start- off 58, Played 58 mins, 1 goal
        N-Slovakia (34) WC Start- off 79, Played 79 mins
        N-Brazil (1) WC Start- off 84, Played 84 mins
        N-Uruguay (16) WC Start- Played 90 mins
        N-Spain (2) WC Start- Played 90 mins
        Total WC time/goals: 7 starts, 0 sub, 564 minutes, 1 goal

        Huntelaar’s role during the above games:
        N-Denmark (36) WC Unused Sub
        N-Japan (45) WC Sub- on 87, Played 3 mins
        N-Cameroon (19) WC Sub- on 58, Played 32 mins, 1 goal
        N-Slovakia (34) WC Sub – on 79, Played 11 mins
        N-Brazil (1) WC Sub- on 84, Played 4 mins
        N-Uruguay (16) WC Unused Sub
        N-Spain (2) WC Unused Sub
        Total WC time/goals: 0 starts, 4 sub, 50 minutes, 1 goal

        SO, that is now 11 starts total, or 799 minutes (235 + 564), that van Persie was the striker, scoring 5 goals.

        Finally if you look at various games after the WC you’ll see the same pattern was repeated several more times. van Persie the preferred choice as striker, Huntelaar only getting to play bit parts when van Persie comes off.

        van Persie specific post-WC games:
        A-Hungary (36) ECQ Start- Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        H-Hungary (36) ECQ Start- off 45 min, Played 45 mins, 1 goal
        A-Brazil (3) Int Start- off 84, Played 62 mins as striker
        H-Switzerland (18)Int Start- Played 90 mins
        A-England (5) Int Start- off 45, Played 45 mins
        H-Slovakia (34) Int Start- off 67, Played 67 mins
        H-N.Ireland (100) Int Start- off 57, Played 57 mins, 2 goals
        N-Denmark (9) EC Start- Played 71 mins as striker
        Total mins/goals: 8 starts, 0 sub, 527 mins, 4 goals

        Huntelaar’s role during the above games:
        A-Hungary (36) Out of squad, Injured
        H-Hungary (36) Out of squad, Injured
        A-Brazil (3) Int Sub- on 62, Played 28 mins
        H-Switzerland (18)Int Unused Sub
        A-England (5) Int Sub- on 45, off 63, Played 18 mins, 1 goal
        H-Slovakia (34) Int Sub- on 67, Played 23 mins
        H-N.Ireland (100) Int Sub- on 57, Played 33 mins
        N-Denmark (9) EC Sub- on 71, Played 19 mins
        Total mins/goals: 0 starts, 4 sub, 121 mins, 1 goal

        So, now it becomes 19 starts, or 1326 minutes (799 + 527) that van Persie played as a striker, scoring 9 goals.

        Part 2 next >>

      2. Part 2 >>

        This means that Huntelaar only had 341 minutes more (3 full matches and 71 mins) starting time as striker than van Persie. From this we can see that van Persie has started in enough games and played enough minutes as striker for us to be able to draw a reasonable and fair conclusion.

        Now consider again that Huntelaar only started 21 games (1667 minutes) in which time he scored 18 goals, and then compare that to van Persie’s record as striker where he started 19 games (1326 minutes) in which time he scored 9 goals.
        Huntelaar as starting striker has a ratio of 1 goal every 92.6 mins while van Persie’s ratio is 1 goal every 147.3 mins.

        If you also add Huntelaar’s playing time as a sub (497 mins, 5 goals) his full record as striker is 2164 minutes played, 23 goals scored. That means he has a final goal ratio of 1 goal every 94.1 minutes for Holland, compared to van Persie’s ratio of 1 goal every 147.3 mins whenever he’s played as a striker. At this point you may next try to claim that van Persie had to play against better quality teams than Huntelaar, but here are the real facts:

        Opponents played against as striker by ranking:

        van Persie as striker:

        N-Brazil (1) WC Start- off 84, Played 84 mins, 0 goals
        N-Spain (2) WC Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 0 goals
        A-Brazil (3) Int Start- off 62, Played 62 mins, 0 goals
        A-Italy (4) Int Start- off 15, Played 15 mins, 0 goals
        A-England (5) Int Start- off 45, Played 45 mins, 0 goals
        N-Denmark (9) EC Start- 90 min, Played 71 mins as striker, 0 goals
        N-Uruguay (16) WC Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 0 goals, 1 assist
        H-Mexico (17) Int Start- off 63, Played 63 mins, 2 goals
        H-Switzerland (18) Int Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 0 goals
        N-Cameroon (19) WC Start- off 58, Played 58 mins, 1 goal
        H-Ghana (32) Int Start- 90 min, played 90 mins, 1 goal
        N-Slovakia (34) WC Start- off 79, Played 79 mins, 0 goals
        H-Slovakia (34) Int Start- off 67, Played 67 mins, 0 goals
        N-Denmark (36) WC Start- off 76, Played 76 mins, 0 goals
        A-Hungary (36) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal, 1 assist
        H-Hungary (36) ECQ Start- off 45, Played 45 mins, 1 goal
        N-Japan (45) WC Start- off 87, played 87 mins, 0 goals
        H-Hungary (57) Int Start- off 67, Played 67 mins, 1 goal
        H-N.Ireland (100) Int Start- off 57, played 57 mins, 2 goals, 2 assists

        Avg FIFA Rank of Top 19 opponents: 26
        Starts/sub vs Top 19 opponents: 19 starts, 0 sub
        Goals vs Top 19 opponents: 9 goals
        Assists vs Top 19 opponents: 4 assists
        Minutes played vs Top 19 opponents: 1326 minutes
        Goal Ratio: 1 goal every 147.3 minutes

        Starts/sub vs FIFA Top 10: 6 starts, 0 sub
        Goals vs FIFA Top 10: 0 goals
        Minutes vs FIFA Top 10: 367 minutes

        Starts/sub vs FIFA Top 5: 5 starts, 0 sub
        Goals vs FIFA Top 5: 0 goals
        Minutes vs FIFA Top 5: 296 minutes

        Huntelaar as striker:

        N-Brazil (1) WC Sub- on 84, Played 6 mins, 0 goals
        A-Brazil (3) Int Sub- on 62 Played 28 mins, 0 goals
        A-Germany (3) Int Start- off 75, Played 75 mins, 0 goals
        A-Italy (4) Int Sub- on 15, Played 75 mins, 0 goals
        A-England (5) Int Sub- on 45, off 63, Played 18 mins, 1 goal
        H-England (7) Int Sub- on 77, Played 13 mins, 0 goals
        A-Uruguay (7) Int Start- off 80, Played 80 mins, 0 goals
        N-Denmark (9) EC Sub- on 71, Played 19 mins, 0 goals
        A-Russia (10) Int Start- off 58, Played 58 mins, 0 goals
        A-Australia (14) Int Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 0 goals
        H-Mexico (17) Int Sub- on 63, Played 27 mins, 0 goals
        H-USA (18) Int Sub- on 45, Played 45 mins, 1 goal
        N-Cameroon (19) WC Sub- on 58, Played 32 mins, 1 goal
        H-Paraguay (21) Int Sub- on 61, Played 29 mins, 0 goals
        A-Sweden (25) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        H-Scotland (28) WCQ Start- off 79, Played 79 mins, 1 goal, 1 assist
        H-Turkey (29) Int Start- off 86, Played 86 mins, 1 goal
        A-Scotland (30) WCQ Sub- on 83, Played 7 mins, 0 goals
        H-Sweden (32) ECQ Start- off 83, Played 83 mins. 2 goals, 1 assist
        ———————————————————-
        N-Slovakia (34) WC Sub – on 79, Played 11 mins, 0 goals
        H-Slovakia (34) Int Sub- on 67, Played 23 mins, 0 goals, 1 assist
        H-Australia (39) Int Start- off 44, Played 44 mins, 1 goal
        A-Norway (39) WCQ Start- off 56, Played 56 mins, 0 goals
        H-Japan (40) Int Sub- on 62, Played 28 mins, 1 goal
        N-Japan (45) WC Sub- on 87, Played 3 mins, 0 goals
        H-Austria (45) Int Start- 0ff 72, Played 72 mins, 1 goal
        H-Norway (47) WCQ Sub- on 82, Played 8 mins, 0 goals
        H-Finland (51) ECQ Start- off 81, played 81 mins, 2 goals
        A-Tunisia (53) Int Sub- on 45, Played 45 mins, 1 goal
        A-Macedonia (56) WCQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 0 goals
        H-Hungary (57) Int Sub- On 67, Played 23 mins, 0 goals
        H-Macedonia (61) WCQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        A-Finland (79) ECQ Start- off 66, Played 66 mins, 0 goals
        A-Moldova (80) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        A-Iceland (92) WCQ Sub- on 66, Played 24 mins, 0 goals
        H-Bulgaria (96) Int Start- off 77, Played 77 mins, 0 goals
        H-N.Ireland (100) Int Sub- on 57, Played 33 mins, 0 goals
        H-Iceland (103) WCQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        H-Moldova (122) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 1 goal
        A-San Marino (202) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 3 goals
        H-San Marino (203) ECQ Start- 90 min, Played 90 mins, 2 goals

        Avg FIFA Rank of Top 19 opponents: 15
        Starts/sub vs Top 19 opponents: 8 starts, 11 sub
        Goals vs Top 19 opponents: 8 goals
        Assists vs Top 19 opponents: 2 assists
        Minutes played vs Top 19 opponents: 940 minutes
        Goal Ratio: 1 goal every 117.5 minutes

        Avg FIFA Rank of All opponents: 48
        Starts/sub: 21 starts, 20 sub
        Goals: 23 goals
        Assists: 3 assists
        Minutes played: 2164 minutes
        Goal Ratio: 1 goal every 94.1 minutes

        Starts/sub vs FIFA Top 10: 3 starts, 6 sub
        Goals vs FIFA Top 10: 1 goal
        Minutes vs FIFA Top 10: 372 minutes

        Starts/sub vs FIFA Top 5: 1 start, 4 sub
        Goals vs FIFA Top 5: 1 goal
        Minutes vs FIFA Top 5: 202 minutes

        The 19 opponents that van Persie has played against as striker have an average FIFA Ranking of 26, however the Top 19 opponents that Huntelaar has played against as striker, have an average FIFA Ranking of just 15, and yet when those records are compared Huntelaar still comes out on top with the superior goal ratio of 1 goal every 117.5 minutes (compared to van Persie’s 1 goal every 147.3 minutes) despite Huntelaar’s record being against a higher ranking group of opposition than van Persie played against. So it is quite clear who the better goalscorer is. When you consider that Huntelaar also has the better goal ratio against FIFA Top 10 and Top 5 nations, and actually scored against a Top 5 ranked opponent with 94 minutes less playing time, something van Persie had repeatedly failed to do, it also becomes clearer that Huntelaar is the more reliable big game striker and all of this together is further proof that Huntelaar is Holland’s best striker.

  25. ok some productive words finally!!!!!!!

    KHARKIV, Ukraine (AP) -Tension is high and irritants are aplenty. It doesn’t bother Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk before Wednesday’s crucial European Championship match against archrival Germany.
    If anything, “you have to translate it into added motivation,” Van Marwijk said.
    Rafael van der Vaart said he didn’t like his place on the bench, while Robin van Persie put in a disappointing performance during the 1-0 loss against Denmark on Saturday. The training camp location was criticized for being 1,100 kilometers (720 miles) away from the stadium where the Netherlands plays its game.
    And the whole nation of 16.7 million is involved in the great debate as to whether Premier League top scorer Van Persie or Bundesliga top scorer Klaas-Jan Huntelaar should head the attack on Wednesday.
    “Sometimes it makes me laugh,” Van Marwijk said.
    “Ahead of a game like this, and surely after a defeat, tensions rise. For us, likely at home too, and among all our discerning followers. It sometimes can create irritants,” Van Marwijk said ahead of Tuesday’s last training session. “That’s OK. Happens to me too. But you have to make sure it motivates you even more.”
    The Netherlands have a long history of divisive rows within the team, going back decades. Ruud Gullit refused to go to the 1994 World Cup. Edgar Davids was expelled by the team from Euro 1996. Coach Advocaat was lambasted outside and within the team during Euro 2004.
    Tension at Euro 2012 is only a ripple in comparison.
    When faced with questions from Dutch media on dissent, sourced to foreign reports, Van Marwijk briefly lost his cool. “We are preparing one of the most important games in years. That kind of nonsense – I don’t want to get into that,” he said.
    Playmaker Wesley Sneijder said that “we center on one thing and that is Wednesday’s game. When you lose, these things always crop up…. We play Germany tomorrow. It is a big game, a beautiful game. The atmosphere is great and we are ready.”.
    Beyond staving off criticism, Van Marwijk said that Joris Mathijsen would probably return to the heart of the defense after missing the first game with a left hamstring injury.
    Mathijsen played a full part in a training match.
    “We await his reaction from the final practice and will take a decision at that stage,” Van Marwijk said after the session.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/soccer/wires/06/12/2080.ap.soc.euro.2012.netherlands.1st.ld.writethru.0404/index.html#ixzz1xbmu80gT

  26. Not to belabor the point, but there are a number of teams in the tournament with the advantage of having their starting 11 comprised of players from just a few club sides:

    Russia (7 Zenit players, 3 CSKA players)
    Spain (5 Barcelona players, 4 Real Madrid players)
    Italy (6 Juventus)
    Germany (7 Bayern Munich players, 2 Real Madrid players)

    As you may have already guessed, Holland’s starters (at least against Denmark) play for 11(!) different club teams.

    There’s just such an advantage playing with teammates with whom you interact day in and day out at the club level. And a corresponding disadvantage when you have players who only play together infrequently at the international level.

  27. The second part of my reply to Nad. Even English reporters can see that Huntelaar’s link play is “continuously underrated”.

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/09/3161169/van-persie-fails-to-prove-that-he-is-more-important-to

    Van Persie fails to prove that he is more important to Netherlands than Huntelaar
    The Arsenal striker failed to live up to expectations as a sub-standard Dutch side kicked off their campaign in the Group of Death with a shock defeat

    9 Jun 2012 20:45:00

    COMMENT
    By Peter McVitie | Netherlands Expert

    Ever since the heart-breaking defeat to Spain in the 2010 World Cup final, Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk has faced immense pressure to field a team which consists of both Arsenal striker Robin van Persie and Schalke star Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

    In the build-up to Euro 2012 there was much speculation in the Dutch media about the possibility of both strikers making the starting XI after they each enjoyed great seasons in their respective leagues, and the general consensus was that both hitmen would be in the first-team.

    But Van Marwijk rejected the calls of the nation and stuck to his guns, lining up against Morten Olsen’s Denmark in their opening game of the competition with Van Persie up front, Huntelaar on the bench and two holding midfielders in Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong.

    Throughout the match, a lack of attacking intent was evident as employing two holding midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 makes it very difficult for the Netherlands to threaten with pace and in numbers. Attempts to stretch the backline were both feeble and too few, and one of those defensive midfielders should have been sacrificed much earlier than the 70th minute when Rafael van der Vaart replaced De Jong.

    Robin Van Persie’s poor first touch and tendency to move outside of the box, either out wide or deep towards midfield, means he isn’t the right person to start as a sole centre-forward for the national team. As they burst forward, attacks eventually fall apart as Van Persie drops away from the edge of the box to retrieve the ball, leaving a void in an area in which a centre-forward would be.

    The Arsenal man, who scored 37 goals in all competitions this past club season, needs someone to play off him and expects the likes of Afellay, Robben and Sneijder to cover those areas for him. There is only one person the Dutch can rely on to utilise the space Van Persie leaves.

    That is Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

    The Schalke striker – who was top-scorer in Euro 2012 qualifying – netted 29 goals in the Bundesliga in 2011-12, and his record in all competitions was 48 goals in 47 games. But he is much more than a poacher – his workrate and link-up play are aspects of his game which are continuously underrated.

    The lack of understanding between the frontline were evident throughout the majority of the first-half, yet the Netherlands remained unchanged as they emerged for the second period. The problems continued until 20 minutes from time when van der Vaart and Huntelaar replaced De Jong and Ibrahim Afellay, respectively.

    The coach was far too slow to react to the problems in his team, and the damaging defeat to Denmark is proof that Van Marwijk needs to find a balance to combine the movement and style of Van Persie and the prowess and potency of Huntelaar.

    With the so-called easiest match of Group B out of the way for Netherlands, no more mistakes can be made in their two remaining pool games against Germany and Portugal if the Dutch are to avoid an embarrassing first-round exit.
    ——–

    When Huntelaar went on a crazy goal rush with a big game coming up the friendly against Brazil Marwijk then suddenly took him out of the team and put van Persie in, who did nothing while Huntelaar was stuck on the bench. That is demoralizing and is not the way to reward players for good performances. He now does the exact same thing again after Huntelaar fired the goals to put Holland to the Euro’s in the first place. If selected I just hope he will quickly refocus enough to shrug off the disappointment of being snubbed after just coming off one of the best goalscoring seasons in history. Denmark would have been the perfect game to build some momentum and rhythm from but what’s done is done. Now a win is absolutely paramount. They need to go for it and can’t afford any more mistakes from both management and players.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_association_football_goal_scorers_in_a_single_season

  28. @Prachtig
    You sound like Hunter’s agent or auditioning for one.

    Anyways, I agree with you. Good comparisons. I definitely would like to see Hunter in the game by any means. I’ve a feeling BMV will drop Afellay to make way for him. This squad is already under a lot of tension. If he drops any big names, there will be more infighting. These guys have a lot of egos and do not hesitate to open their mouths.

    Afellay is a young player and knows he has a couple more tournaments in him. He is also mild mannered and not so outspoken. He would cause the least headache for BVM if he’s benched. The others feel like this is their last major tournament or could be their last. That’s why VDV is iching to get into this squad.

    I don’t know about the Mathijsen situation. If he’s ready to go, he’ll be a better option than Vlaar who is very slow to respond to situations and hasn’t yet established any communication with Heitinga in setting up the defense.

    I would also like to see Boulah take over from VDW. We will probably lose some offensive support on the right, but he’ll better stabilize the shaky defense.

    1. Ha, hi there Sam. No that discussion only came about because after some people said they wanted Huntelaar to play, rather like some of the deluded Arsenal fans I sometimes see on the internet someone else (Nad) appeared to object in a rather dismissive kind of way to the very idea that Huntelaar might actually be a better striker for Holland than van Persie. Whereas most Dutch fans already know that given the same platform, same team-mates, system etc, Huntelaar has repeatedly proved he is the better striker for Holland despite hardly ever getting the recognition and trust his efforts deserve.

      He’s consistently proved himself worthy to be Holland striker. But unfortunately a few still have the blind spot which makes them think nothing else can be good enough unless it’s been hyped by the EPL / Sky Sports media machine. Meanwhile this makes them repeatedly fail to recognize the quality of others like Huntelaar who is a proven goal-machine with a fantastic international record. For example, how many other strikers not named Messi or Ronaldo, over the last 10 years or so, can say they have ever in their life scored 53 goals in one season for club and country while playing in a top European league like Bundesliga (54 goals if you include Bayern v Holland) and scored more goals than matches they played for their club (48 in 47 games for Schalke). The answer is there is no other top-level player than Messi and Ronaldo from the past 10 years who can match that.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_association_football_goal_scorers_in_a_single_season

      Here’s a striker who can score with both feet, in the air, can make delicate chips with pure technique, was well known in Holland as a master of spectacular scissor kicks and bicycle kicks, diving headers, even scoring free-kicks, and can link up well too (partnership with Suarez at Ajax for eg). Then everything he’s already done with Oranje is dismissed very flippantly hence the urge to show some real facts rather than let the baseless talk rule. The guy hardly ever gets to start big games so how does one try to beat him with that stick while somehow ignoring the fact that van Persie is the one who on many occasions as starting striker for Holland never did very much at all to write home about whether in ‘big’ or ‘small’ games. Neveretheless I’d rather just move on from that debate now, since midfield will be key also. The facts have already been set straight. If van Persie is the striker and shows real merit then of course I will just be delighted. Nothing else but a win will do tonight.

  29. JB and AL,
    I agree that those teams especially Germany/Bayern have a lot of advantage as these players know each other strengths and weaknesses. Spain in the last world cup had 6 starters from Barcelona if I’m not mistaken.

    But then again, look at Brazil, Argentina and even France. They have a lot of players that come together from different clubs. That’s always been the case for Brazil and they are the most successful team in international tournaments. They did have one, two or maybe three players who played together but for the most part they come from a lot of different clubs.

  30. I like how BVM acts like the people who feel this way are the minority! Is he on crack?

    Someone send him the articles on previous players comments anf the voters choice from the telegraph today!

  31. One other interesting roster note — of the real contending teams, very few start any outfield players over 30:

    Germany (0 — oldest is Lahm 28)

    Portugal (0 — oldest is Alves 30)

    Croatia (0 — oldest is Srna 30)

    Denmark (1 — Jacobsen 32)

    Spain (1 — Xavi 32)

    Italy (1 — Pirlo 33)

    France (2 — Evra 31 and Malouda 31)

    Russia (3 — one of the exceptions, with Iganshevich 32, Zyryanov 34 and Arshavin 31)

    Ukraine (4 — the other exception, Nazarenko 32, Tymoschuk 33, Voronin 32 and Shevchenko 35)

    Whether these players’ age brings grit, guile, resourcefulness and depth of understanding, or complete deterioration of all skill and speed, I can’t say in each instance. In my case, however, now in my late 30s, the latter is definitely the case.

    By the way, Holland have only two — Van Bommel 35 and (assuming he starts) Mathijsen 32

  32. Now I know why Robben always looks confused. He doesn’t know if God exists. Somebody please tell him that he does and used to wear number 14.

  33. I do so hope that the Netherlands will defeat Germany. However, some of the comments from the players, especially Sneijder, reveal a bit of “whistling in the dark”. There also seems to be a bit of immaturity on the part of these players. They should focus, practice hard, prepare mentally for this tough match and keep their mouths closed. Be gracious in speaking when you win, be humble and mostly quiet when you lose. This is a tournament that the Dutch can win, if they play to potential. There are no apparent super teams in this Euro, so the Dutch have a chance–but they MUST DEFEAT GERMANY. Let’s hope for a victory!

    1. Very interesting analysis. Although they have to modify the statistics in view of the Denmark result.

      It is true that team goals are the relevant metric, not the goals from any one individuals person.

      Speaking of formation, as the article does, what really struck me as unsettling–having rewatched the game last night–was the last 15 minutes or so of the Denmark game. Experienced players should not get into disarray like our side did when the subs came on. It is ironic that VdV made the comment he did because he was the worst offendar, playing behind the fullbacks and in front of the forwards. When you combine that with his wild passes, you can only think that he just buckled under pressure and made continuous bad decisions. That is the opposite of what we need against the Germans in clutch situations. He really didn’t make much case for himself being a starter.

      It’s crucial that our team does not repeat that free for all they went into at the end of the Danish game. We completely wasted 1/6 of the game, which is a good amount of time to nick a goal. This also goes down to poor coaching, it seems, as the players should have a clear idea of what to do when subs come on and formations change, and those formations should be well drilled.

      In any case, I’m hoping it’s all meaningless tomorrow when we build up a lead with a few goals, and don’t need to chase the game again. Got my fingers crossed.

  34. Interesting; todays report of the telegraaf in Holland was not just voter poll but they also reported the team trained 3 variants yesterday, one with both hunter and persie in team. This is now supported by other rumors in the press and late night talk show guest vd Gijp who has many contacts also talked of upcoming reshuffle: Bommel out, Sneijder for Bommel next to de Jong, Robben left wing, Kuyt/affelay right wing, Hunter no 9 and vPersie no 10. More or less what we all said here haha… this could be dynamite if true, lets see tomorrow if vMarwijk indeed listened to all the expert critics or that he will hold on to his own.

  35. I hate to say this, but without Kuyt on the field, the team lacks a certain energy and motivation that he ALWAYS brought to every game.

    Let me ask, what player brings this to us now? Sneijder? MVB?? RVP? No, Kuyt was always in there winning the balls causing havoc AND protecting the back 4 AND scoring goals AND providing assists.

    Sure, he has his flaws, but it is NO coincidence that when the heart of the team is on the bench, the team sucks. Lets face it, our core are now old, apathetic and feel entitled. Kuyt never let his fame get to his head ever, and ran out every play and went after every ball.

    Without his heart, we dont have a chance against Germany.

    I bleed orange, but i predict 3-1 germany. 🙁

    1. Maybe you are on to something. I mean when Kuyt is on the field the team looks like they could take on anybody, but then again I’m not sure. He was the heart of team back in WC 2010.

  36. is that rumour true? that holland will play

    Gk: stekelenburg
    CB: Heitinga, Mathijsen
    LB/RB: Van der wiel, Willems
    Def mid: De Jong, Sneijder
    Off Mid: Kuyt (right) Van Persie (center) Robben(left)
    Striker: Huntelaar

    thats great but who gets to be captain? i would hope sneijder

    on top of that, remember after the england game, i can’t remember who had the headline, but they said, Robben Left, Huntelaar Center, change nothing else, and we’ll win the euros, the world might be in for a shock

    when we beat the germans 3-0 and dominate possession 70%

    1. On the other hand, these could just be contingency formations that we’ll use only in certain situations, as opposed to a starting formation. The players really screwed up on Saturday at the end when the formation was adjusted and many got out of position.

      The Germans must be going crazy trying to figure out what we’ll do.

      1. but we only have 3 subs, i mean, subbing, van bommel off, then affellay. leaves room for one more sub, but at what time will we make these subs,

        denmark game BVM waited too long to make the subs, and affellay doesn’t have the fitness, It’s important for kuyt to start and tire guys out, and then have affellay come on with his speed and tricks to get beaten, plus i think kuyt and huntelaar have great team chemistry

        1. >It’s important for kuyt to start and tire guys out, and then have affellay come on with his speed

          I am 100% with you on this. Applies to Robben as well; he is better if he comes later. We can start with a more conservative and harder squad and then go for the riskier and more offensive style later.

          As per Sneijder as a deep lying playmaker, he did that with Germany in the friendly and didn’t work well.

  37. Why can’t Kuyt replace MVB? Kuyt can tackle. He can pass. He can defend reasonably well. Instead of putting him as right winger, let him play the MVB role. That way Afellay and Robben can play on the wings.

    There’s no way Sneijder can play defensive midfielder. You guys just completely ignore we have a shaky defense that had such a tough time against all opponents we recently faced.

    I have not missed a single qualification, friendly or tournament game in a very long time. I know the strengths and weaknesses of this team from what I see everytime they play.

    I would love to play like that but there’s something called reality. The reality is that we need more cover on defense. I don’t buy the mentality that we’ll dominate possession and it’s the best offense. Just look at Barcelona and Chelsea. One or two chances is all a team like Germany needs to score. They are not gonna sit back and let us dominate possession. Our defense will be under immense pressure tomorrow especially if we score first.

    People always ignore defense. We are so obssessed about offense. Believe it or not, this team is very unbalanced. We have a supremely talented offense that’s one of the best in the world. However, seems like we don’t have the same standards when it comes to our defense.

    Playing with Sneijder as the defensive midfielder is a huge gamble. He is not used to it. We are asking our most talented playmaker to be responsible for defensive duties. It takes him away from where he is most dangerous which is just outside the opponent’s penalty box. I understand if we can’t score in the 1st half, it’s worth trying at half-time.

    Bring Kuyt in for MVB. Hunter for Afellay. Move RVP on the left as his right foot is made of lego. Robben should be instructed to play as a winger and not shoot balls into the stands.

    1. sneijder can be our andrea pirlo,

      gotta take risks to make it big, and if it’s true van bommel is not playing, which i doubt, if thats true, then de jong has the speed to cover, and thats why kuyt is there, to help out guys on defense, he can eliminate lahm or any portugeese left and right backs attacks, the way he shut down maicon at the World cup

  38. I think we have a lot from the Czech team today. Their defense was atrocious in their opening game versus Russia. They lost the game 4-1 but they were able to beat Greece 2-1 today.

    They had 2 very early games in the match. They conceded a goal because of a blunder from Petr Cech but were able to hold on for the win and the whole 3 pts.

    We need to really come out guns blazing to get that early goal against Germany. Hopefully, our defense can at least give us a chance and give confidence to the team.

    Winning vs. Germany is doable. It’s not gonna be easy and all the pressure is on us but then again we never expected it to be easy anyways.

    Every match is an elimination game for us. We have to run extra harder, focus extra harder and show that we want this more than anyone else.

  39. Were Holland to play Sneijder at a withdrawn midfield position, I doubt it would be as a defensive midfielder, more of a deep lying playmaker. That said, maybe this is a matchup issue. Germany’s defensive mids are Schweinsteiger and Khedira, and maybe Holland feels that Sneijder would not be able to operate as freely when double-teamed by those players. Were he to play deeper, he might draw those players forward leaving space behind them for the others to work in, or alternatively, he might only have to contend with Ozil, who is not nearly as strong or physical as a defender. I think playing Sneijder in this withdrawn role would be an interesting solution. It would allow him to make longer penetrating passes — which he seemed to be the only player capable of making against Denmark. Additionally, it would allow the forwards and wings begin to make their runs earlier and to be more creative with their movement. It just might work.

    Or it could end up just making him play too far away from the goal and lose all effectiveness whatsoever.

  40. I like the idea of Kuyt as a holding mid. All depends on how Bert feels about it. However, my gut tells me that we will field an unchanged side from the one that started the Denmark game.

  41. As for Van Persie: both Gullit and Van Basten in their AC Milan / 1988 Oranje days used a mental coach ( Troost or something??) who would do meditation and stretches and sort of yoga with them to get their bodies to release built up tension.

    Maybe something for Robin now….

  42. Most likely change will be Mathijsen back in the squad. He was practising today and unless there are last minute surprises, he’ll almost certainly start.

    I wish BVM listens and puts Hunter in the game. That in itself would send a big message that we are here to win first and foremost.

    As I said before, taking off Afellay would be the safest option for him to insert Hunter. Benching Robben or RVP would be a big gamble and BVM is a very cautious and calculating man.

  43. samDC right on. kuyt would be interesting as a holding MF but now is not the time to experiment, especially against the germans… just a tweak here and there.. Hunter for Afellay and that’s it… not even sure if a a less than perfect mathijsen would be the right move here….

    1. Kuyt as holding mid may be drastic, but not as a RW, people dont realize how valuable he is. Liverpool did worse when he was benched, ask any Liverpool fan (RIP Finn), they all know Kuyt was a massive asset that you cannot put into statistics.

      As was said, Kuyt controlled Maicon, who would u trust more to annoy the shit out of CR9, Kuyt or VDW? Kuyt of course…

  44. In 2008, Robben was not a starter, in the match against Italy and France. So, maybe it is better to play without a winger if the winger cannot cross the ball at all….

  45. Crosses wont work against Germany. They have tall powerful defenders. To beat them Holland has to play one-touch passes through the middle. Despite his nightmarish game against Denmark, Van Persie will be crucial against Germany.

  46. Just read a heading on the telegraph!

    “Huntelaar to sit on the couch”

    Fuuuuuuuccckkk!!!

    Says he’s definately not playing and they are thinking about replacing affelay for kuyt!

    Sorry to dissapoint guys,

    How many fuckin tournaments of RVP not scoring do you need!!

    We all know what einsteins definition of insanity is!!!!

    I’m so mad!!

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