Pre-Wales Update from the Oranje Camp

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by Jan

SEVEN DAYS TO GO. Gosh, I need a timer on my site…. Why am I so web-challenged… 🙁

Anyway, no matter. It’s one more friendly before we go for the big job.

Wales tomorrow, sans Bale and Ramsey sadly. Ramsey was one of my fave players last season. What a tremendous revelation he appeared to be.

Louis will play with yet another system. A bit cheeky of course. We will end up playing 3-4-3. With Sneijder close to RVP and Robben roaming where ever. Blind, De Jong, Fer and Janmaat in midfield (Blind and Janmaat covering the flanks) and BMI, De Vrij and Vlaar as defenders.

A system the players should be able to handle, without too much of an issue.

I like this. To me, it says Louis might be working with different systems vs our group opponents. Spain will most likely need a 5-3-2 approach (or a 1-9-1 approach, hahahaha). Chile depends a bit on their first result and how they play. Australia will most likely need a 3-4-3.

LVG

Van Gaal: “I selected the players also on the basis of their ability to play various systems.”

This probably explains why Van Aanholt was not needed. Blind can play on four positions, Kongolo on three positions.

De Guzman is out, as you know, and Clasie is not 100%. Odds are high that Fer will start. And from what I hear, De Guzman might not be out of the woods as yet, with his hamstring which might be very bad news indeed…

Wondering who LVG will call up if De Guzman needs to throw the towel…


Nigel de Jong is about to start his fourth big tournament as a starter. This time under Van Gaal. The 29 year old has an impressive list of clubs on his resume and after playing more than 10 years at the highest level, he still is hungry for the ball. “I have to be. That is how I can survive. You know, the playing pitch is like a jungle. It’s the survival of the fittest. I want the ball if I don’t have it and I must want it more than the other guy. Otherwise I don’t stand a chance. EWhen I played in the Ajax youth, we would win most games because we were better. When you play for Man City or Milan or Oranje, you don’t win because you are better. Because you are not. There are ten nations at the World Cup that could claim better players than us, spot by spot. Fine. We need to be better organised, better mentally, more hungry, etc. I reached the top in football not because I was the best player. I played with guys in the youth who were seriously, much more skilled than me. But I made it. And sure, when you are Lionel Messi or C Ronaldo, you can play frivolous and win. I can’t. I know my limits, hahahaha.”

Nigel

De Jong looks the part too. Muscly, buff, tattooed and a stern look. But when you hear him speak, he is an intelligent, soft spoken and humorous bloke from the streets of Amsterdam. Vilified and criticised for his harsh play and in particular after he was involved in a couple of broken legs and a chest kick studs up to Xabi Alonso, people started to feel De Jong was giving Dutch football a bad name.

“I don’t care too much about what others think. It makes life easier this way, you know? I don’t respond to these things. I know and Xabi knows whether I hit him on purpose or not. That is enough for me. I will not go and publically defend myself. I am hired to do a job and in my position I cannot not go into the tackle for fear I might hurt the other bloke. The team manager would take me off. The team manager selects me and I do what he wants me to do. I am now starting at my fourth Tournament, so I guess I am doing my job properly.”

Van Gaal overlooked De Jong in March. Was he ever scared he would miss out on Brazil. “Nope. The team manager told me he wanted to see others at work. I am confident enough to know that if I would focus on my own game, I would be part of the squad. I am one of the best on this position, full stop. When I am fit and happy, I can deliver.”

De Jong enjoys the new system. “Yes, it fits us. It is the right thing to do. And I believe we will have it down pat for Spain and I believe we will go for the win. That first game is very important and we will try and win it.” Is a draw not a good result? “No man! You always go for the win. That is why we play.”

The mood is good in the Oranje camp. The Feyenoord youngsters (Wijnaldum, Fer, De Guzman, Clasie, Vlaar, De Vrij, BMI, Kongolo, Janmaat) seem to have a dominant role in the squad . This clip explains their shenanigans. What they basically say is: Bruno Martins Indi is the joker of the group, always trying to fool a mate. Arjen Robben and Dirk Kuyt are the best mentor / motivator, biggest training animal is Bruno Martins Indi, Terence Kongolo is the worst in playing pool, player who most underestimate himself: Bruno Martins Indi, the man who knows much about football: Louis van Gaal.

Martins Indi remembers one of his first friendlies, when apparently Robben yelled really loud in the tunnel towards the field “There are no friendlies!! We are Holland and we play to win!!”.

Yolanthe, Wesley’s better half, presents the new Orange knickers to the world. You can order them through this website if you are interest. One word of warning: Yolanthe is not part of the offer!!

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220 comments

  1. Rewatching the match against Ghana, I have to say: ITS REALLY PAINFUL TO WATCH OUR TEAM!!
    Gosh, really really painful, our center backs have ZERO passing skills, Seriously Vlaar doesnt know how to pass a ball FORWARD??. Indi regular and De Vrij pretty oke. Lets see but I dont like what I am seing, maybe against Spain we could play this shit of football but I Expect MORE ATTACK against the aussies and the chileans.
    Cheers and thanks Jan for the updates!

    1. It’s Cillessen, he takes too long and makes the wrong choices who to play to (telegraphing his passes so the opponent has an easier time to lock us up and put pressure on the defenders who are left with less time to think about how to build up). He also misses a lot of passes or plays them slightly wrong also making it harder for the defenders to build up (being under pressure immediately). On top of that the kind of balls he plays often puts them in the position to have to play back again (because of the reasons just described) followed by a bad longer kick from Cillessen, often going over the sides but at least most of the times ending up with possession for our opponent.

      We can only hope people don’t start shooting at him as well, cause he dives away (like against Benzema) and is afraid of the ball coming near him (whereas Krul loves people taking shots at him, only makes him better). He doesn’t really like going towards the ball either it seems, he doesn’t really want it. Always looking like he’s on the verge of a nervous breakdown or just half asleep.

      Of course Blind at LB isn’t helping much when he gets the ball in these build-up situations, cause everyone knows what happens next…watch it closely for a game, and stop blaming the wrong people please. They have their own issues. 😛

      1. Practically everyone on this board consistently says that Cillessen is not very good, so I wonder what LVG, who is supposed to be a genius coach, sees in the guy? It is curious–and worrisome–as you can’t win WC games with a mediocre keeper!

    2. Vlaar actually was the only one with the right idea (that backfired because he got his dribble wrong, went too far to the right and touched the ball too hard).

      First move broke the pressure and opened up better build-up options.

    3. not to mention that Krul also does the build-up much better and has more accurate and clever long balls, since that’s standard practice over at Newcastle.

      Only thing is, if he’s playing with a reluctant and unimaginative de Vrij and Blind, he will also get balls back (allbeit not necessarily from those 2 directly, it may take a bit longer when these 2, especially Blind lately, refuse to dribble forward and look for the forward opening, eventually the pressure will pay off and the ball will have to go back to the keeper when no one is willing to take a chance, Blind is in the right position to take that chance, safely on the sideline if he’s playing LB).

      He just deals with it a little bit better.

    4. oh, and when Blind is not on the ball, he has a tendency to do exactly that which he’s supposed to do when he’s ON the ball, which is to go forward. Meaning his positioning can sometimes be too far pushed up the field/forward adding additional risk for our defence (as exposed against France, twice).

      Especially with his *ahum* wonderful ability to see and sense threat coming and understand what he’s supposed to do about it (anticipation, not reacting, van Bommel’s strong point).

      2. Agree: what makes certain players good who may not have excellent pace is positioning and anticipation. Blind twice got caught out of position against France and did not have the pace to get back. This will be a problem with him in the games ahead, I fear: he is not slow but backs need excellent speed for precisely those moments, which we hope are rare, when they are caught out of position.

    5. if I can’t have Krul, I’d rather have that Ghanese keeper than Cillessen. Did you see those saves against Robben, now that’s good anticipation and coming out to get the ball. That’s a keeper that wants to get the ball and isn’t afraid when the ball is coming his way, 2 very good saves, much more then I’ve seen frmo Cillessen after the Turkey game, where he had 1 good save.

    6. The way Vlaar fooled the Ghanese attackers with that move I mentioned, you’d like to see your keeper play around with the what’s in the heads of their attackers as well (maybe not that close, but the same concept of putting your opponent on the wrong idea/leg).

      Cillessen is so predictable, and then the execution is poor on top of it, asking for trouble (and giving ball possession more for our back 5 then our front 3, which won’t be a good thing for us).

      Anyway…comedy capers.

      2. being a bit more Valderrama-like (not too much of course, that was just ridiculous, but the attitude, the dominant feeling, the air of confidence as opposed to panic or worries).

      3. Yeah, I mentioned this in one of the previous posts. Also, Cillessen already has more caps than Tim Krul, which is just sad.

        I can just picture one of those goofball passes from Cillessen costing us vs. Spain.

      5. remember vdSar in 2008 when he made the save on a freekick? He aimed that save to lead in the counter (and let his teammates know that that’s what he was thinking).

        THAT’S what I’m talking about, doing just that little bit more cause you’re already confident you’ll make the save (the 9 to 5 job part, no big deal, we’ll add a bit more).

        He was also very good at quickly launching counters in that tournament, knowing exactly where and when to put the ball quickly somewhere (throwing out as well).

        2. the only impact Cillessen seems to have is making our defenders think they can’t defend (inlcuding the Dutch fans) causing us to have to play with 5 average defenders (ok, not Janmaat, but he was playing anyway) in turn causing us to have to miss out on interesting wingers such as Depay and Promes. Who could really be an addition to the team and put our opponents more on the backfoot.

          Especially against Chile with that weak defence and poor keeper I really would prefer 4-3-3 to improve our goalscoring threat, but I’m afraid by then it’ll be too late anyway like when we suddenly had to play with Hunter+vPersie+VDV+Sneijder vs Portugal in 2012, too little, too late (why not start like that vs Denmark? A team you know will park the bus and where you need more attackers to break the fortress).

          1. and causing ‘walking on eggs’-football in our defenders (afraid to make mistakes, cause 1 mistake can mean a goal with Cillessen there).

          2. now they have to play inch perfect (which is too much to ask, too much pressure)

  2. @Gabriel,
    what I cant understand is how a major power in football like the netherlands cant produce a couple of defenders at the level of frank de boer every generation!!! is it possible that the current defenders are the best we can produce?
    some people here are saying wait and you will see how these talents will be in a couple of years!!! honestly the quality is not promising, these players will not survive in big clubs!! i could see depay making it in a big club yes because his talent is obvious but BMI, de vrij, blind are very limited. you already show what you have when u are 20, look at varane the kid is only 20 years old he is already a starter at real madrid playing the champions league final with all the confidence a playr might have!! why? because he is a real talent!!! on the other side, bruma for example that we had very high hopes for. he keeps making the same stupid mistakes that he made when he was still 16. he is not advancing!!!

    1. Yes alaa you are right, what I really dont understand is the fact that we playe dificult nations like portugal, germany, italy etc etc with 4 defenders and we didnt lose!!
      So why to play this shit?? Dont know, really our midfield doesnt look to good, maybe MVG was necessary, the kid have been playing good, I really think we are vere very limited, lets see. Nevermind I am also a die hard orange fans so bring it.
      I only want to say: If we lose fine, but in a attacking way!!

        1. I also vote for MVG. I was going to ask Jan and other for a vote (no offense to De Guzman) on who should replace De Guzman in case his fitness rules him out.
          I like De Jong’s mentality. “…I believe we will go for the win. That first game is very important and we will try and win it.” Is a draw not a good result? “No man! You always go for the win. That is why we play.”

      2. Van Dijik…..lets see who makes in 2016 under Hiddink. Van Gaal is not a coach for internationl level jus like Mou and Pep. they all belong at club level. Imgaine Mou coaching the Porgual team or Guardiola coaching spain.they wont even come close to the success what they currently achieving now or what they achieved in their whole career. I hope after this WC there is a massssssive clean up campagin in NT.

    2. Alaa, not only the netherlands are uncapable to produce topclass defenders. look at spain – they have ramos and pique who are worldclass players,but the rest? in the last couple of years bar azpilicueta and jordi alba who’s better in attacking than defending i cannot see any emerging great talent in the defensive area,and these two are wingbacks. or let’s take the example of argentina – garay is their best defender who is not topclass either. germany? well,they have hummels,but the rest is very average. only brazil,france and probably italy are capable of producing topclass defenders. the problem is not the defense itself – if you don’t have topclass defenders you cancounterbalance it by possession or by high pressing. if your midfielders,wingers and strikers are good in possession game and high pressing you don’t need worldclass defenders. i expect argentina will play this way. are oranje capable of this? i don’t know,but with 5 defenders and 2 destroyers in the starting line up am not sure about is.

  5. I like De Jong. He is a bit like Davids was … When he is on the pitch, you feel you have some extra confidence in our defensive line. Like a boxing tournament with Tyson on your team 🙂

  7. In part im actually a bit disappointed vGaal changed the system.. since we dont have the quiality to go far this tournament; i rather see a very young team, in a 4-3-3 system. All guns blazing and then kicked-out after the first round with attacking, daring football..

    Know what i mean?

    2. I agree. I do like the 3-5-2- system if its played in an attacking sense but if we play defence football only to be kicked out anyway, I will be very disappointed…

      1. exactly. van marwijk’s team played ugly football,but the team reached the world cup final. people forgive you if you get good results with compromises. but if you play ugly and get eliminated in the group stage or in the 1/8 there is no reason not trying to play attacking football. a 3-4 loss is always more spectacular than a 0-1 or 0-2

        1. I still dont understand why he dropped vaart for kuyt…that made the team more worse and less potent.it will always remain the biggest sin in dutch history.Apart from RVN sitting in bench for kuyt.I salute RVN for not kicking Vanbasten for that stupid mistake.

        2. quote: “van marwijk’s team played ugly football,”

          they didn’t, the Spanish played ugly, Uruguay was caught cheating, Brazil was whining and some of them were acting as little kids when they couldn’t handle losing instead of just playing football (they actually GAVE us time/wasted their time with what they were doing that can’t be considered football, such as what Melo did).

          Didn’t the English score the first goal against the Germans or something? Or was that Argentina? Lucky for them that goal wasn’t counted and set the tone of the match. They could only score heavily against Romero (AZ’s keeper at the time) when they played Argentina? Wow, they must be brilliant attackers playing beautiful attacking football like the media said, too bad they couldn’t show that same style and form vs Spain.

          Wanna see beautiful football? 😛

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVQmWZoNHG4

          1. germany’s disallowed goal was at 2-1. don’t forget that in the semis uruguay’s best player,suarez and lugano didn’t play. you might consider suarez a cheater,i consider him a hero who sacrificed himself for the team

        3. and I also a remember a bycicle kick from Kuyt somewhere, I think it was in the same game, have you ever seen a bycicle kick attempt from Kuyt at goal?

          …

          No we didn’t play ugly.

          That bycicle kick alone from a guy like Kuyt shows how the confidence had grown in that team and what was in their subconscious in terms of playing style. They were playing free and flowing, determined and stylish, everyone’s best qualities best utilized and coming out except for a few exceptions here and there perhaps (vPersie had little rythm because of the injury in november against Italy). And we played equally offensive against fortresses (Denmark, Slovakia, Brazil) and open houses alike (Uruguay, Cameroon). At least we used 2 wingers unlike now (and still had the 2 upcoming wingbacks overlapping them as well).

          We also had no trouble scoring 3 in the semi-final, unlike Spain or Germany, or Brazil in the QF.

          And 2 was enough vs fortress Slovakia, which caused everyone trouble in Europe those years. 2 was actually showing our offensive style and capabilities as opposed to other strong attacking teams who failed to break through Slovakia’s tough defences.

          In the meantime, Spain was doing what we were doing vs France in the friendly, passing back and forth without any clue or effect other than having cool passing stats, and perhaps an occasional goal when an opponent slips up or is screwed over by strange referee decisions and other weird occurances.

          1. we actually made it (attacking) look easy against Slovakia, where others had completely failed.

      2. Last WC we played a pretty savvy defensive system, with two DMs, and countered when we could and nearly won the Cup. And with the guys we have up front the counter approach might be rather effective if we can get the ball forward quickly after gaining possession. We have forwards who are very dangerous when given space.

    3. we kind of are playing a type of 433, it just doenst seem it

      blind and BMI are effectively two multi positional players who van gaal is using to make it ambiguous for other teams

      blind shifts to midfield and we have a 433

      or a 4312

    4. and I sometimes feel like we’re supposed to feel this way.

      So that we’re actually somewhat happy (or content) when we go out with boring defensive scaredy pants football.

      Then again, vGaal sort of promised to use both systems. Or hinted at that option. So perhaps it’s not all bad. I’ll wait and see what the first game brings us.

      1. not to mention that against Ecuador the 5-3-2 was executed very offensively, allbeit not that effectively yet.

        So I’m hoping it won’t be too bad, and vGaal can always introduce Depay for one of the 3 CB’s when the opponent is getting more tired, the way vMarwijk used Elia as a sub for Kuyt, which wasn’t a bad idea, it worked out at least once during the tournament and that’s what it’s all about, those unique moments were the best qualities of a player perfectly seem to fall into place (actually in that case it was the best qualities of 2 players, Elia’s agility, speed, creativity and guts/offensive initiative that led to the shot on the post when the opponent was getting more tired, and Kuyt with his endless running scoring his typical rebound goal, of which he had already scored a few for Liverpool in the preceding seasons, so there they were both playing at the end of the game).

  8. If Deguzman is out of the cup,then Ginkel and Klassen are the best we have to replace them or i think wijnaldum will be moved to De guzman spot and promes will take over from wijnaldum.anyways LVG msut go for 433 as his favored system
    Lenz—RVP—-Roben
    —Ginkel–Sneijder—
    ———Dejong——–
    Kongolo–BMI–Drvrij–Janmaat
    ————krul——————
    ==========================================
    Depay——–Hunter——–Wijnaldum
    ——-kuyt——–Clasie———-
    ————-Fer——————–
    Blind—–Vlaar—veltman—Verhage
    ————-Cillesen——————–
    Vorm……..

    1. yeah good idea let’s do our line-ups and completely ignore vGaal’s selection, I’ll do mine just to dream what could have been possible:

      Depay-vPersie-Robben
      deJong-Sneijder-Klaassen
      v.Aanholt-Vlaar-Bruma-Janmaat
      Krul

      In the back BMI+Vlaar or BMI+Bruma is fine too. But Vlaar+Bruma played against Hungary and played well, I would have not broken up that partnership immediately afterwards, still don’t get it (sort of).

  10. I have prepared our Fantasy World Cup 2014 pool, good people !!!

    Really proud of my self!

    One day after our last friendly (Wales tonight) I will publish the rules and the input page.

    GREAT prizes to be won!!!

  11. Did anyone watch the Under 21 game against Luxembourg last night??
    How did the youngsters do?? How did Van Ginkel Vilhena, Ake and Promes fare???
    Gabriel? DRB300? You are a joke?

    1. Watched u21 match,Van ginkel lost his usual stamina and standard,injury played a big part in that, wish he joins with coach like pep gaurdiola ,hiddink etc type.He got subbed in for maher at last.though his passes and moves were so intelligent and quick…
      Though Ake is not LB he did well at that spot he is orange material and its just a matter of time,one of the world class holding midfeilder in making.1000% sure..
      Team was well balanced with the work rate of Promes,Castaginos,Ebcillio,ake..
      They are look like a cohesive team.if boetius gets physically strong we have a world class winger in making with boetius.

    2. Sorry Abhirup I was finishing my tesis, and I cant watch the game, I know that in the goal against us Ake made a mistake but overrall he seems to have played good (gave and assist)
      Promes well, score two goals and I think he gave an assist too!! Van Ginkel and Vilhena dont know how they played.
      Cheers!!
      PD: This is the match report http://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2015/matches/round=2000412/match=2011429/postmatch/report/index.html?

      for the hightlights I only found one and cant played if we arent in the neteherlands!

    1. No I am not…. That was the plan but things came between…. I personally do prefer watching at home, to be honest. 12 camera angles, pre and post match broadcasts, etc

    1. I believe Depay has to play the Elia role this world cup, and Wijnaldum the Afellay one.

      But then Lens has to be starter, I don’t like the idea to have many choices for the same spots on the bench, especially when we also consider Kuyt, and the rumour Promes replacing De Guzman…It’s just too much.

      1. Well, thats true Laurent, Depay is different from Elia, he shoots more and has more strenght, altought I remember Elia had more speed, better dribbles and a litle more vision I think. If Elia could had the mentality of Depay we could had seen a complete player in 2010!!
        About Wijnaldum… I am not convinced of his from right know, sure, I like the kid, but I hope he proves me wrong because I think he will be a flopp in this WC, what do you thinks about him?
        Cheers!

        1. “Elia” and “vision” only belong in the same sentence when used with the words “lack of”. He is uncoachable and tactically a nitwit. This is why Ajax and Juve let him go.

  24. I don’t know guys. I’m just not feeling De Guzman or Fer. Love Wes and De Jong but that 3rd MF spot is looking iffy. Think LVG needs to go with Classie

  27. 20 minutes in and van Hanegem looks spot on: Sneijder’s not doing much of anything to get the ball to the right end of the pitch. Same old problem.

  30. Yikes. The only good thing so far has been the anthem. Rest is sh!t. I would like Wales to score first and see how we will react. Robben seems to be back to his old wasteful self.
    The drums are killing me.

  38. de Guzman did the best of the three midfielders.

    I’d have to watch the Ecuador game again, but I remember Clasie being pretty average outside of the assist to RvP.

  45. Fer is just Fer, slow brain, needs 3 sec to control the ball, rise his head and see a space.But his through passes for Janmaat were good. I enjoy such football.

    Blind is useless in this game, if you put BMI LB, what the fuck you need Blind in front of him ? All he does is playing back or lateral passes. Depay needs to replace him.

    Defence was quite solid in my opinion, they didn’t let wales players to come in the box, problem was in the midfield, Wales players could perforate easily,Nigel isn’t good today in my opinion.

    2. If Fer is slow then how is Afellay?,Afellay has got more slower brain than fer though Afellay has speedy legs.B?w completely agree on Blind-Depay

      1. I wouldn’t say Afellay has a slow brain, but I agree he takes too much time before to make a decision.

        But the worst slow decision maker are one of your favorites players : Wijnaldum and Lens.

        I can guarantee you they are slower than Afellay

  46. not impressed at all so far!!! this team looks clueless….sneijder most of the time looks lost in midfield, blind cannot play at strootmans position, robben misses way to many chances. honestly i was expecting a great team from van gaal but from what i have seen in the friendlies, i am not optimistic at all. hopefully van gaal and the team proves me wrong and start playing football when it really matters. HUP HOLLAND HUP!!!

  47. First time after 2002 i feeling England is getting better with young guns……Scored a goal back and playing some good football.

  48. Nigel looks average, but I put that more into that formation. Likewise with Sneijder. 3-5-2 works better with this current group, imo.

    And Blind is USELESS. Why is he even on this team? Oh yeah, that’s right because his dad is the assistant.

    NT won’t prosper until Hiddink drops him, and finds another assistant coach.

  49. I’m at work and can’t watch this one.

    What’s the difference in today’s 442 formation from the 532 vs Ghana?

    Has Blind just moved into the midfield formally with Fer replacing de Guzman?

    I’m concerned that the current strategy is just defend with overwhelming numbers and then hope that when your three attacking players get the ball they can make something happen. Doesn’t sound like Dutch football to me but maybe LVG has a plan that we can’t discern yet?

  51. The problem is the 442. You have only half of a winger. That is not dutch football. I do not know why Van Gaal did not play 433, this is stupid tactic. Janmaat is the only one that is dangerous on the wing and he needs to run like a horse in the first half try to be 2 players instead of one. On the left only Van Persie shifted there once or twice. The entire team does not have rhythem. They do not press at the same time. You have RVP Sneijder Robben Blind De Jong Fer all jammed in the middle doing nothing.
    De Vrij was great. Good tackle, good pass to Robben, Indi provide a brilliant tackle but can not attack.
    Robben again missed too many chances.

  52. The problem is that BVM was correct, why are we switching to a WHOLE new system because of one injured player??? And 3 weeks before the WC???

    This is ridiculous. I am pissed at LVG for not trying out more players… Where is Clasie? Play Huntelaar??? When will you tinker with the lineup, WTF are you waiting for?!! What if 1-2 of our attackers gets injured?! You need to try your backups now!! And new formation 4-3-3.. this is insane! LVG is an imbecile!

  56. Not watching game and you re making me nervous. Watching Italy vs Luxembourg and Italy look weak as well. Friendlies are useless anyway. If you lose it means nothing, if you win it means even less.

  61. @Laurent I wouldn’t even use him as an LB.

    He was awful vs. France. Any other sane coach would have looked for an alternative.

    PvA, Urby, and Pieters are all better than him.

  66. This may sound a little crazy, but I enjoyed watching oranje of EC 2012 more than LVG’s oranje! I’m glad I’m entering this WC with NO expectation whatsoever.

  68. ESPN Gamecast makes it sound so exciting:

    “Attempt missed. Ron Vlaar (Holland) right footed shot from more than 35 yards is high and wide to the left. Assisted by Daley Blind.”

  71. Wouaw generous Robben

    Wonder if he will be the same during the competition…

    But that’s how Holland should play, Sneijder Robben/Lens for counter attacks.

    That’s much more efficient than when they keep possession.

  74. counter-style vs Wales, told you this was comedy capers.

    Of course we’re practicing for Spain, but it’s still funny (and quite boring there for more than 40 minutes).

  82. With Huntelaar coming for De Jong it seems that this is
    4-3-3 formation again.
    That settles it for me…IMO Oranje should play 5-3-2 against Spain to strengthen the defence and maybe also against Chile. But against Australia it needs to be classical 4-3-3. No 4-4-2 please…
    Lets see what Van Gaal is going to do.
    Will he abandon 5-3-2 system?

  84. so it seems as though we might have to go back to a 4-3-3 if RVP is injured… i kind of like Lens in the lineup he is a beast for the NT.. ALWAYS

  85. Italy still struggling with Luxembourg. Never saw Lux create so many chances in a match! Guys honestly Holland cannot be worse than this. Ecuador have scored and they are 2-2. Against Holland they created 1 chance in 90 mins. So again, look at the wider picture.

    1. I agree, the big guns arent doing great in the lead up either. Van Gaal has something up his sleeve, i know it. RVP injury might be fake, it wouldnt surprise me at all.

  87. Huntelaar and Lens brought some life to this game.

    I would like to see those two brought on again. Especially Hunt if RvP becomes invisible vs. Spain/Chile.

  88. if RVP injured then LVg must fix it with
    Lenz——Hunter—–Roben
    —–Sneijder—Wijnaldum——
    ————-Dejnong————
    BMI———————Janmaat
    ——–Devrij–Vlaar————
    ————-krul——————
    LVG is biased towards Ajax players
    i really dont understand about Blind and Cillesen…

    2. really? Which team has the greatest contribution towards the squad this time? and that’s excluding the players that came from that club..

  89. Wow. Such negativity. I, for one, choose to be optimistic, and also not to draw too many conclusions from pre-tournament friendlies. I choose to see a spry Robben, a laser-focused and motivated Sneijder, world-class striker in v Persie at the height of his powers (though his wincing is clearly a concern), a Blind who is coming into his own, a mutually supporting back line + Nigel with a mix of steel and football, a system that can flex to different opponents, a team of players who are looking to help each other be successful vs playing primarily for themselves, a mix of players with positional flexibility.

    In this game, Robben finally had a bounce go his way and got a welcome pre-tournament goal and a wonderful assist off a fabulous release by Sneijder. I agree that getting out of our group will be hard, but I’m confident that we’ll acquit ourselves better than in 2012, and with some luck (a couple of bounces go our way, our key guys stay/get healthy) I think we can do some damage in this tournament. Here is the US, the LA Kings and NY Rangers are in the NHL finals, which I sure as heck didn’t see coming. Why not Oranje in ’14?

    Sure, everything could go to sh*t. But why focus on that?

    3. Nice balenced perspective. Another clean sheet, another win. If we were supporting Italy or England, we would have reason to be negative. I’ll be optimistic.

    4. Well said my friend. One more thing about being positive. We played Against wales 6 years ago , Won 2-0 , 8 days later we destroyed the World champions Back then 3-0 .
      Today we also won 2-0 vs Wales , and We will play again vs the World champions in 8 days .

      Hup Holland 😉 .

  90. I liked sneijder a lot since after the 2nd goal. Great vision and distibution.

    I think after trying Fer , De guzman Blind & Clasie , Sneijder is the best one to play beside De jong.

    Let’s go for 5-4-1 , with Persie upfront , Lens and Robben on the sides , De jong and Sneijder playing in middle ,
    On attack it can be easily switched to 3-4-3 with Robben , Persie and Lens upfront , De jong , janmaat and Blind with sneijder infront of them in midfeild . Vlaar as a libero , De vrij and Indi infront of him.

  92. Currently listening to RdB’s comments, trying to sort out all the riddles that Louis brought forward. 5-3-2? 4-4-2? 3-4-3? NOOOO I think tonight it only worked when it was a 4-3-3, just after Klaas-Jan came in.

    Anyway my prognosis for the elftal in the land of coffee, samba and football:
    tegen Spanje 0-0. 5-3-2 defensively and comfortably. Oranje to miss the best chances and we will be whatifing on the 13th of June.
    tegen the Oz 4-3-3 and 4-0 of 5-0. at the same time spain chili peppers draw, leaving us needing a win to qualify firsta or a ddraw and Spain to score a few, which they always do.
    Last matchday we beat chili peppers and qualify first which effectively takes us to the Semis, Cameroon in the 1/16 easy, Ita or Uru in the Quarters, yes we can, Belgie next (they beat Messi in the quarters 4-3, by the way Lio is the first best alyer in the world never torach further than the quarters of the WK).

    So, if we beat Lukaku and Hazard in the semis we are in the final!!!!! To be continued…….

  94. @iammoallim: Phew. Robin van Persie sustained a mild groin injury tonight, but it’s not too serious, expected to line-up against Spain next week. #Oranje

  95. Robin van Persie heeft vanavond een lichte liesblessure opgelopen in de oefeninterland van het Nederlands elftal tegen Wales (2-0). De aanvoerder bleef na rust achter in de kleedkamer van de Arena.
    Volgens de medische staf van Oranje is de blessure niet zorgwekkend. De aanvaller zou uit voorzorg naar de kant zijn gehaald. Van Persie is inmiddels hersteld van een knieblessure die hij in maart opliep tijdens een duel in de Champions League met Olympiakos. Hij heeft sindsdien echter nog geen hele wedstrijd gespeeld.

    INJURY NOT SERIOUS according to AD… BUT the announcer said he was grimacing in pain.. so who knows!

    1. Van Persie: no worry
      WEDNESDAY, JUNE 4, 2014 23:22
      Robin van Persie did not hesitate Netherlands after the match against Wales. “You do not worry about making the change was a precaution. I have a little pain in my groin.”

      Orange won the Amsterdam Arena 2-0 Wales. Van Persie remained calm in the changing room. “I had no problems before the game, the injury occurred in the game I thought next week. Importantly I really want do not want to even call it an injury.”.

      “Good things seen”
      Van Persie happy looking back at the game. “We’re now good to Rio and continue working., I’ve seen good things. Today we give away one or two chances, but overall it was a positive game for us. Everything is all about next week.”

      If the Manchester United striker faces the remark that it was a bad game on the part of Orange, he had his answer ready. “We’ve played the first game 1-1 against Ecuador, then 1-0 against Ghana tonight and 2-0 against Wales. Secretly I see an upward trend. It is impossible to make everyone ‘pleasen’.”

  96. One for all the blind doubters to consider..

    Daley Blind with 7 tackles, 2 interceptions, 2 key passes and 90% of 80 (!) passes completed in central midfield. Great stats!

  97. Yeah islander he would even get 100% success rate, why? Simple because 80% of his passes are back to cillissen and 20 percent just lateral ones to the player on his side!!!

      1. as i say below, the idea with the system is to retain possession and draw the opponent out to you. If against weaker teams (like wales, andora, etc) they put 10 behind the ball then it looks like a bad system because the circulation is seemingly pointless because the opposition is happy to let you pass the ball to the end of the 90 minutes. The problem holland have at the moment is a lack of power in the midfield (a yaya toure like player) and genuine pace in the defence which allows you to be less concerned about counter attacks and space behind your defenders.

        1. I’m not saying lateral or backwards passes are bad or pointless. I’m just saying that the inflated passing stats like Xavi, Blind or others accumulate by making no risk passes to teammates 3 meters away are perhaps of less significance than true incisive “killer” passes that we all love to see periodically from Sneijder and others.

          Possession passing is certainly a valuable part of the game, but I see no need to embellish its importance with 99% passing statistics.

      2. a forward pass is not always good either, especially when you put your teammate in a corner with only one way to go, back again, which happens quite a lot to create a bit of movement on the pitch, but they’re not particularly useful or impressive unless followed up with something better when you get the ball back and possibly have a bit more space to line up a better pass/cross or dribble.

        Whether a pass is a clever one that is useful actually more often means you need to count some of the failed passes, cause those could have been more dangerous if they worked out (or where better anticipated by the receiver if it’s a failed pass that’s still threatening).

        Football isn’t about passing that much, it’s about scoring and stopping goals, apparently with any means necessary if you ask previous WC-winners. You do either of these 2 well and you can become champion, if you do both well you’re pretty much ensured of being screwed over by the ref cause someone else needs to win according to some people. One of the bigger markets.

    2. “Louis Van Gaal’s idea is one of continuous circulation, one side to the other, until the moment that, when you change direction, and space opens up inside and you go through it. So, he provokes the opponent with horizontal circulation of the ball, until the moment that the opponent will start to pressure out of despair. What I believe in is to challenge the rival by driving the ball into him. At this time of ultra-low defensive block teams, you will have to learn how to provoke them with the ball. It’s the ball they want, so you have to defy them using the ball as a carrot.” What this simply means is, against compact and deep defenses,Van Gaal doesn’t go long or result to hopeful crosses and punts up the field, he sticks to his policy of moving the ball to draw them out to find spaces. LVG’s teams play a lot of oucline-to-touchline passes, not for the sole aim of retaining possession, but as a means to draw opponents out of their defensive shape to press. As the opponents push out to press the ball, gaps begin to appear within their system which could then be exploited. That’s why Van Gaal’s ideal midfield preferences are thinkers on the ball in his midfield triangle. “Running is for animals. You need a brain and a ball for football.”

      1. you guys are ridiculous,
        Blind was actually the most consistent, mobile, ball winning midfielder out there tonight.
        For Australia, we need to forget about slow players like de jong, fer, and bruno martins indi at left back.. they only slow the buildup down tremendously. nd their passing is very predictable.

        Blind, Wijnaldum/De guzman, Sneijder would prove very useful against teams that have 9 players defending the ball.

  98. For everyone who criticizes de vrij and says he is very slow and he will be toyed against big teams, well let me tell u one fact!!!! Believe it or not out of all these young kids playing in Oranje he is is the only one who knows how to play football!!!! He knows football better than our midfielders!!! Our midfield is pathetic did u see today how for almost 20 minutes in the first half no one of them dared to advance with the ball in midfield??? They have no basic skills whatsoever!!! U are a midfielder u are expected to know how to run for a couple of meters with the ball, blind fer de Jong …. For gods sake they were painful to watch, on the other hand de vrij got pressured a couple of times by a welsh player and he was able to hold on the ball under his feet and get out with the ball!!! But our midfielders who are supposed to be the ones with skills to handle pressure they are pathetic!!! Daley blind was elected the best player of erdivisie??? Seriously that’s the best we can get??? They were painful to watch today I couldn’t believe my eyes!!!

    1. Alaa I’d advise you to take the plane during next Holland games, it’s even better than your car : No network for phone, no radio…You’ll have no way to learn that Spain beat 3-0 Holland.

  99. Seriously if u think about it, our defense is not bad at all, de vrij vlaar and janmaat are all decent players, only question mark is BMI, meanwhile daley blind I donno if he is there only because he is the lucky son!!!! The guy is limited on all levels, no speed no dribbling skills, no good crosses, no eye for good passes!!!

      1. Blind was very productive. I don’t know what game you were watching.

        I saw a completely ineffective BMI and Janmaat on the flanks. And de Jong has no business playing against these type of teams. And seriously Fer?

        Robben, Van persie, Lens played below their usual standards.
        Sneijder, Vlaar, De Vrij did well.

        1. I turned off my TV when Blind (having acres of space and loads of time) didn’t play that ball to Janmaat who was completely open on the wing with acres of space to work with (with Blind looking STRAIGHT AT HIM!) somewhere around 55 minutes (could be 5 minutes less or more).

          I did turn it back on again cause I was bored and there was nothing else on. Would have switched to hockey if I could.

          One of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen in Oranje. Still Comedy Capers.

        2. and there was more Comedy Capers going on with only our 2 forwards applying pressure and there always being 1 or 2 Welshman completely out in the open free to receive a pass when they were playing the ball around in the back. That was like that training game where one guy tries to get the ball and all the others are allowed to pass it around, just with more distance making it even harder and more pointless (comical) for the 1 guy.

          Only at the end when we started to play with 2 wingers (4-3-3) did we apply pressure in all 3 areas: left, right and middle.

    2. 7 tackles, 2 interceptions, 2 key passes and 90% of 80 passes

      2 key passes would lead to defeating your argument of no eye for a pass..ok he’s not sneijder (but he doesn’t defend) and he’s not van der vaart and he’s not strootman but he’s certainly better than Guzman and fer

      1. I don’t know about being better than De Guzman offensively. But definitely better than Fer.
        If anything, whenever Blind has to play in midfield he has take over from De Jong as the Anchor, and play alongside De Guzman and Sneijder.

  100. @laurent, hahahahaha, good one man!!
    Seriously after this game today all my fears are confirmed!! We don’t have one real midfielder who can orchestrate this team and release the pressure, a player who can advance with the ball from defense to midfield!!!
    And the sad part is that I waited all these years and this year I decided to have my vacation in amsterdam I timed to be there when we play against chile, so I coming all the way from the USA maybe to witness a sad evening with all Oranje fans in amsterdam against chile!! I would hate to remember amsterdam this way, I would’ve rather spent the vacation in my home country Lebanon!!! Anyways it will be a unique experience for me to be in amsterdam for that match against chile!!! If my nerves are strong enough this time to get me thru the 90 minutes :):) with fer de Jong blind and BMI I highly doubt it honestly!!

  101. @ramy,
    If we are advancing to the second round to meet brazil there id rather see Oranje leave from the first round!!! These players we have will crash against brazil in the second round and they will cause us a humiliating gloss something like 4-0 and all the annoying Brazilian fans will be reminding us of this loss for the next 60 years!!! We either qualify as first in group or just get eliminated from the first round!!! I can’t afford to see those samba players and annoying fans thinking they are something exceptional by beating us with a big result!!

  102. The positives I felt were: de Vrij Class!

    Unlike many others, I though Fer was brilliant, power, energy, nice passes, dissapeared at times but this is due to game time! Much Much better than de Guzman and even Clasie!

    van Persie of old, even nice dribbles from the wing!

    Janmaat -> looks like a classy player..

    Negatives:

    martins indi ?? why is he even in the squad?

    Vlaar simply not gud enuf -> squad spot understandable due to being captain at a respectable club but certainly not a WC XI player

    Cillesen is a nervous wreck of a joke

    Blind == pitiable

    de Jong is a limited aging player with one or 2 nice tackles every 60 mins..

    I am hoping that Klassen replaces de Guzman and we play with:

    Krul

    Janmaat

    Veltman + de Vrij

    Blind (LB sigh) – Kongolo is more useless

    Fer + Sneijder in DM

    van Persie (CAM)+ Free Role

    Depay (LW)

    Robben (RW) + Free Role

    Huntelaar (ST)

    1. Totally agree with you De Vrij has been brilliant in the last three games. That over the head pass to Robben was great. His tackle is good made one bad pass which nearly cost a counter attack though.

  104. did i forget to mention …the delicious sneijder of old towards the last 20 mins…nom nom passes….total array of vision n skill! 😀 me likey!

    2. he had a great opportunity against Ghana and chose the pass, not the best choice with his qualities and the amount of space he had, could have gone for goal (this game he took a shot in a much harder situation, not really attacking the ball and going for goal, just taking a shot for the sake of taking a shot).

      1. Vlaar did the same thing (but still attacking the ball, should have put more effort to keep it down, but again, just taking the shot for the sake of taking the shot, not thinking about how that goal is supposed to go in, imagining the line of the shot before he takes it).

  105. So we won against a team that had 9 players behind the ball for long spells of the game. We scored two goals.. Do you prefer to see this team beat Wales 5-0 then lose to Spain 1-0?

    The Negatives.. we got pressurized by a weak team for a long period of time in the first half. 4-4-2 was not working.

    The Positives.. we made one mistake on defense all game long. We did not concede for two games straight. Cillessen made a single save in the last 3 games. Defensive stability is key to progressing in any tournament. I’d rather see another 2010 where Oranje is efficient and can make a deep run in the tournament, over a 2008 where Oranje dazzles in group stage and fizzle out in the Knock-out stages.

  106. One thing is clear, van Gaal’s team has improved a lot defensively. 1 goal conceded in 3 friendly matches where our players don’t do their best, is not bad at all.

    My biggest concern is untested Cillessen. I would like to see him in action more in these friendlies, to understand what van Gaal finds in him better than in Krul. And Blind should never play in midfield, it’s just a waste of a playe and a space.

    On a nostalgic note. I loved the Oranje which played beautiful football. Even if they didn’t win, it was joy to watch them play, and almost everybody loved their style. Even if van Gaal somehow manages to win it with this team, they’ll be nowhere near great Oranje sides of 1974, 1988, 1998. Do we really want to be a team who wins ugly all the time ? Or play the way Oranje played before, and lose sometimes ?

  107. Its simple guys Van Gaal only likes players who fits his system and not not players who can perform better overall.

    Veltman – Van Dijik – De Vrij

    Van Dijik over De Vrij any time any place.

    Veltman- Bruma/ Van Dijik

    BMI – Kongolo -Rekik

    Blind – PVA/Pieters

    Kongolo selection was soley based on his performance in eredivise but yet again him and veltman have not been unitized timely to boost their exposure at international level or at least to settle their nerve . this is how it has gone. Blind as usual has been given a VIP treatment here. Blind was always the first choice LB for Van Gaal even though he was brutally exposed vs France.the cover up came in form of Kongolo who had a better season for Feyenoord than BMI and yet he has being sitting on the bench. Suprising BMI has started all the games and Kongolos selection is unjustifable when BMI is either starting at LB and CB. he jus a cover up to justify Blind selection.Blind sucks at LB and even sucks more in the midfield. he will be no where come 2016. van Gaaal is playinf smart and covering tracks IMO…. Sames goes for Veltman as both Van Dijik and Bruma were overlooked and yet again De Vrij is starting all the games.

    Now check this out Rekik had a outstanding performance when he came vs France shifting BMI the LB and the same when PVA came on vs Ecuador. For me those performance were genuine and of top class. How can a coach does take note of that.

  108. Although England tied Ecuador, it is significant to note that the game was played in Miami under conditions similar to those in Brazil, unlike when we played them recently. I am not sure why our warm-up games are still being played at home and at night when it is cool (around 13C) when in Brazil we will be playing during daytime when the temperature is likely 27C or more. We don’t have a lot of time to get acclimated to the subtropical conditions or the heat.

    1. It will be hostile situation in Brazil jus like like what England experienced today vs Ecuador in Miami. with this I dont see RVP surviving all the three pool games. It obvious the coaches wont reveal the extent of the his injury publicly and will assess it to themselves . and with Van Gaal if RVP 50/50 he will take chances given the injury crisis at hand but then again we are in not in a easy pool where we can rest him and think of reaching the second round or the quarters which will give him sufficient time to re co-operate.

      Hodgson is facing the same pressure with Ronney and the game in Miami today was a showcase of that .

  109. Cillessen is a real reason to worry. Just his face expressions witness of his low self esteem.

    Every time he is in a dangerous situation, he is looking at defenders like “it’s your fault”. I also have the impression he never talks to defenders, cannot put any authority.

    I really feel he’ll make big mistakes.

  110. ———Hunter——- Lens———-

    —————Robben—————–

    ——-Sneijder———- Wijnaldum——

    Kongolo——–De Jong—————- Janmaat

    ———BMI——-Vlaar———De Vrij——

    ——————Krul————————-

    in this formation we easily resort to 5-3-2 during defense with Janmaat and Kongolo falling back and during attack Sneijder and Wijnaldum can become wing attack.

    2. 🙂 probably a sign you’ve done too many line-ups, lol

      We really need to get this thing underway, the suspence is killing me, what is it now, 6 days still?

    1. I find it easier to just pretend he’s playing. And that we’re winning the WC again just like we did in 1990, 1998, 2002 and 2010.

      I remember nothing about being screwed over by referees or inexplicable behaviour/losses/chaos/weird misses/crazy selections and line-ups/friction and whatever else was used as an excuse, explanation or justification.

      I didn’t see the 74 and 78 WC’s but we probably won those as well (definitely the ’78 cause that one was already proven in court that it was fixed). That’s 6 WC’s which puts us ahead of everyone else and explains why we’re the only ones that can produce a game (and goal) at a WC semi-final the way vBronckhorst did it (not to mention all the other stuff that just comes out better than other teams, Messi needing defenders to let him by and Ronaldo needing a thousand shots before he gets it right the way vBronckhorst gets it right in one, Spain just generally sucking and Villa needing to keeper to leave the goal completely empty for him, Forlan needing a keeper ‘mistake’ and ballswerving excuses).

      We play the best football, when we’re allowed.

        2. of course with Suarez there this time.

          We sort of missed that opportunity last WC.

          Would make for a great show, 2 good teams that are both very capable of breaking defences and both have some weaknesses in their defences to exploit, a nice open game just like last time but now with the whole Uruguayan might thrown at us instead of just half.

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