Bert van Marwijk was criticised to be a little bit too….blend. Too grey. Too vanilla. Not daring enough. So the KNVB wanted to go back to the swagger of total football. Back to the Dutch School. And decided to go with maverick coach Louis van Gaal. Results and attractive football are his two building blocks.
The headstrong egotistical coach did half the job right. He got results. He coached us to the #3 spot in the world. Not with great and attractive football though. But it was also never boring. Also thanks to the likes of Robben and Van Persie of course.
So when Louis left, it would have been logical to allow a similar type of coach pursue the objectives. A younger coach, who is closer to the younger generation of players. And who would be able to use the qualities of the likes of Blind, Depay, Clasie, Willems and Janmaat to create another footballing machine.
Someone like Danny Blind? Ronald Koeman?
The KNVB claimed to be happy with Blind. And planning on giving him the job after 2016. Why not let him have a go? With Hiddink, in terms of football vision, we’d take a step back after Van Gaal. What was the reasoning? Is 53 year old Blind not senior enough? If not, would that be different in 2 years time?
The KNVB demonstrated their lack of balls (exactly what they want a coach to bring in to the team) by going for good ol’ Gus.
Against Turkey, which have a lot of phsyical strength and are good at parking the bus, you need agility in your team. Speed. Young legs. Good eyes. Everything Clasie has.
Now don’t get me wrong. I am not against Nigel de Jong. At all. He was the key player in Brazil for me, with Vlaar and Robben. But he is key against the likes of Spain, Argentina, Chile. Not Kazachstan or Turkey. And using Afellay as a winger? I have not seen the game as I write this and for all I know Afellay was great but he’s not a winger. Depay tends to come inside, and if you have Huntelaar in the team but no service from wide positions, you will make it hard on yourself. Playing one driftin’ winger (Depay) is ok, but the other one needs to be hugging the line a bit more. Narsingh? If you have him in the squad, why not use him?
These tactics (a midfielder as winger and a central midfielder with limited build up qualities) are typical for a coach like Hiddink. We needed to win. But we weren’t set up as such. With Clasie, the game is played faster. De Jong need two touches and two looks. Clasie needs one look and one touch. And with Narsingh there is your station going deep, instead of wanting it played into his feet.
I am not blaming Hiddink… He saw what Oranje did in Brazil. Then he got the job: “we need you to coach the team to the Euros and to mentor Blind”. Old Gus thought: easy. With Robben, RVP, Sneijder, Huntelaar…what can go wrong. We will easily get the third spot at least.
Well…. sadly. No. Holland started well. Got some deserved opportunities but failed to score. And just like in all other Euro qualification games, we conceded first.
So what happens next: confusion. As skipper Sneijder said after the game: we lost it a bit. Conceding is something we don’t handle well, although we had a lot of practice this qualifications…
Even Hiddink post-match said: “I will get this Oranje to perform… I just don’t know how yet…”
Not good soundbites. But Bas Dost said it right: “We could and should have won this!”. Sneijder and Afellay had some bad luck with distance strikes. Depay had his opportunities, hell even Narsingh could have proven Hiddink wrong.
Hiddink, again post-match: “We wanted to win this but we didn’t play well. It feels like we lost 2 points but maybe, at the end of the line, this draw might have given us the most valuable point…”
Btw, not sure who’ll get the goal. Sneijder seemed to have gotten it during the game but after the match, Huntelaar claimed it. “I saw the ball coming and thought if I flick it on the goalie won’t have a chance. I did it on purpose. It’s my goal.”
Anyway, we are still in it. No one will remember this game if we win the Euros in France, next year. We’re still no. 3 and we can lick our wounds and see if we can get some swing in our game vs Spain.
yap Jan agree with most of your analysis.I was also suprised to see my man Clasie not start the game.He is the most underrated player in NT and yet he hasnt started any qualifications.
yeah you can put a question mark around De Jongs position.That is one position that urgently needs reinforcement.His unability to link up in attack is one the area that needs to addressed. Even at Milan there is always vague in midfield during attack and thas where they have struggled in the build up to goals.
well if Hiddink doesnt know how to slove NTs problems then this is where he should start.
The midfield opens up when we are dispossed during attack and this was very evident vs Mexico.The midfield trio needs to move forward and back at the pace and thats not happening when De Jong is playing.
Sneijder and Depy on the same side is also not working out.Sneijder always likes to drift and with Depay continuously cutting inside sneijder usuly ends up invading his terriotry leaving him with less space to work.This is exactly what happened today between Afellay and Wijnaldum.
Even if RVP would have played together,looking at the the of balls Hunter received,even he couldnt have done much.Hunter positioning and making those runs in the gsps was good but both Sneijder and Depay ignore that and rather went for shot at goal. This is why we need left footed winger on the left flank as when Sneijder is drifting they can both inter link with each other without comparising spaces out wide.
lets play simply soccer vs Spain
Afellay-Hunter-Depay
Sneijder-De Jong – Clasie
Willems- Bruma-De Vrij- Janmaat
Cillessen
@wilson….there is a life with out Afellay…
Buttner,Blind,Willems all can play betetr than Shitaffellay..Orange life is better with out Afelllay fool.
Worst players of the night was Afellay,BMI,vander weil as expected..Depay was bad too..Wijnaldum too…
@Wilson putting Bruma-Clasie and Janmaat will make huge difference though…Afeallay is real shit who takes 90 minutes to pass the ball and his crosses are poor like vanderweil…He is a ball hog…we dont need him…Depay can be a substitute for 20 minutes at his best…
Williams——–Hunter————Narsingh
———-klassen——-Clasie———–
—————–Veltman—————–
Blind——-Devrij——–Bruma——Janmaat
—————-Cillessen—————–
is the best 11 available in current selection..
MR Guss has seen
We failed ridiculolusly when we played with weil,Afellay and BMI many times underhimslef…
Howmany defeats he needs to understand they are useless????
ONLy stupids makes repeated mistakes…
Hiddink must be sacked.he is a one dimensionl limiteed coach…..
The results are not surprising anymore!!
This is very logic, this current oranje level is the same like the level of erdivisie teams in Europe. Why do u expect narsingh wijnaldum depay clasie and willems to suddenly become heroes in the oranje jersey when they are losing with their clubs to Ukrainian and Bulgarian teams!!!
A very sad reality, oranje will not be a great team anymore at least for the next ten years maybe till
Knvb figures out the problem with their policies that are making dutch clubs a joke in Europe!!
Robben is the last greatest player oranje will produce for a while!!!!
Memphis Depay is Bit overarted,
Narsingh played 45 minutes,he did better
Wijnaldum has no vision or anticipation
Clasie didnt play
Willems got 10 minutes……
Hiddink has no clue and he is blind..sooner the sacking it would be better…
Hiddink is a crap coach now….He needs sacking
i will get you some of his negative comments on team with excuses…
We need a real winger and with Narsingh we’ve that. He was a huge threat for Turkey’s defense.
———Depay——Huntelaar——Narsingh—–
———Sneijder—–Nigel—–Clasie———-
——–Blind—–Bruma—-DeVrij—–Janmaat—
——————–Cillessen——————-
@miguel—-
Depay is a not a good team player…We need chemistry between players,i mean players who sacrifices for good for the team…Take out Depay for better crosses and better assists.
Nijel has become slow ,slowly fading away from old Nijel…
Lets try something new..
he doesnt know how to fix it..if you dont know then plz resign MR Hiddink
http://www.turkish-football.com/hiddink-admits-he-does-not-know-how-to-fix-netherlands/?
Hiddink quotes…
Hiddink then went on to state that Netherlands should no longer be described as one of Europe’s top sides, “We shouldn’t talk too big about ourselves, because we are not one of the top teams in Europe. The third place at the World Cup in Brazil was fantastic, but you have to look through that result. Look at the reality.”
No Hiddik you dont desreve to be bondscoach
Gooodbye Hiddink
Yes hiddink when you slect,Afelly,BMI.weil and DEpay in first 11 .you are not a top team…So drop at least 3
Even after seeing failure after failure with Vanderweil,BMI and Afeallay …..how can you slecet these 3???
well as reported during the training session, the actual game turned out to be in contray to what hiddink had emphasized and practice in training session. ” to get the ball into the box as soon as possible” Depay, Sneijder and Afellay were all guilty of not doing that. I think there was only one good cross that came in the box which was Narsingh side. As reported in the training session sneijder and afellay on the wings and wijnaldum at 10, I meam what the hack,you train and when in actual game you start with a different strategy, thats kind of sucks especially when you know that the importance of the game.
When will they learm to how to uitilize Hunter.
Sneijder – Hunter – Narsingh
Claise – De Guzman – Klassen
Willems – Bruma – De Vrij – Janmaat
Cillesen
Yes wilson..i feel this team would have won it vs turkey at least by 2-0
coaching this team is like trying to herd cats
selfish prima donna’s who refuse to put the interest of the team first
well this should be it. the dust has settled for eredivise players and in the next qualifications players playing outside of eredivise need be considered. If this trend still continues then we will need a whole lot of toilet papers. The game vs Iceland was clear indication that even Robben cannot win a game single handily as it is in most case scenarios where the team is often playing in his shadows.
You look at players like Leandro Bacuna, even though Aston Villa is struggling in EPL, his individual performance and work rate has been outstanding for Aston Villa especially when Linking with Beneteke. Same goes for Partick Van Annholt performance for Sunderland is always notably. Genuinely PVA is truly a NT materilal but has always been overlooked jus because he plays for lowly Sunderland. How can rate both Narsingh and willens vs PVA and Bacuna as to who are better options. Jus because PSV id leading eredivise or their performances is better in eredivise and EPL duo’s performance his average. this mentality needs to change.
Ajax vs Aston Villa
PSV vs Sunderland
Ajax vs Sunderland
PSV vs Aston Villa.
How can you justfy who is a better team on a given day.
It often the mentality which favours Ajax just becuase they have been playing Cl for the last four years so the are better than Aston Villa and Sunderland. This is where the curtins needs to be lifted. EPL compared to eredivise has got an unprecedented buffer in terms of competition level and complexity and that buffer increases year after year with eredivise going in opposite direction and that should really be enough to ascertain the strong hold of team or players for that matter.
I agree 100% with you on this and let’s not forget Jaanmat , he was left on the bench, why? He consistently plays well for Newcastle in both attack and defense.
My flop of the match was definitely Hunterlaar, bad touches, slow, static created nothing even the commentators were putting shit on him because he was terrible! A lot of people bag RVP when he does not score but at least he moves around the pitch trying to find space, for me there is no comparison to be made between the two, please Robin – get fit!
Dost on the other hand was a breath of fresh air , he looked dangerous when the ball was coming into his area, especially the high balls he also had a couple of really deft touches which for a big man is a rarity. I hope they stick with him and let him develop as a key striker.
The style of play from Hiddink was ultra conservative probably based on the players at hand , I said before the game that our midfield was tired looking and that it was, it was only Affelay who looked capable of creating something at least he tried to beat his player 1v1 a couple of times it may not have worked but we can’t have players who can only pass the ball, what do you think makes Robben so good!
Sniejder surprised me I thought he did ok and did give some incisive passes early on and really it was his goal, Hunter’s head was just in the right place at the right time.
If we manage to qualify for the Euro’s we need to hope that our injured players RVP, Robben, Strootman, Ginkle Vlaar etc are fit and willing to play, I can’t see this bunch going too far in a tournament, it’s too late to blood the real young ones like Ake and Klassen etc IMO.
Another option I see is Sneijder in Pirlo role. I know it will take balls and risk to do this but what the hack we can try this vs Spain. As usually His defensive game will be questionable here but as long as he can run those lines effectively and with a box to box midfield it can work.
Depay——-Hunter ——–Narsingh
De Guzman—————-Clasie
———-Sneijder———–
Robben – Hunter- Lens
Van Ginkle- Sneijder – strootman
Buttner – Vlaar – Van Dijik – Janmaat
Cillessen
end of story. Guss
In this formation the midfield can operate in both formations, Point upwards with Strootman and Van Ginkle retrieving back or point backwards with Sneijder falling back and strooman and Van Ginkle going forward.
Dost for Hunter!
@ Van banger
Initially the plan was get the ball into the box as soon as .This is what happened.Afellay was continuously drifting to left depriving Wijnaldum of space and for that reason he became static. the same was happening with Sneijder and Depay and their plan of action was shot on sight. if you watch the reply you will see when Depay dribbled past two defender inside the box , he jus went for the kill when Hunter was lineup in between the defenders.
Hunter knows where to be , you jus need play him. well this brings me to the most debatable question. Was that goal a fluke or was Hunter at the right place at the time.
Well he did claim that he knew where the ball was and decided to nod.
Narsingh should have started that with either Deapy or Afellay on the left wing. I would have prefered Afellay with Depay coming of the bench.
I agree Hunter did not get great service and I think a general lack of vision around the box did not help. But we are not playing 1/2’s or slipping passes in between he lines to create something, ( if you get a chance check the Austria goal – about 5 one touch passes, brilliant).
Sniejder and Affelay we’re looking up but nothing was presenting itself as an option. I can’t remember seeing a Dutch team look so disjointed in a match, if we did not resort to the long ball we would not have got a draw as the Turks were finding it easy to deal with our passing game which was just too slow.
I’m not sure how Hiddink will change this , he is not Van Gaal! I feel we need improvements all over the pitch and 433 is not working for us as we do not have the players to execute it properly.
As a minimum I would play with 2 up front.
Afeallay has no vison or anticipation at the very best he can take on a player vs 1 Vs1..His final passess are not that great,crosses are pathetic,long passses are pathetic..takes too much time decide about a pass,has got slow brain.Completely incompetent when compared to Sneijder,Clasie,Maher,Vaart,klassen etc as number 10…But slightly better than wijnaldum as number 10.
For me the stand out players were
Devrij
Sneijer
Blind
Average
Narsingh
no impact
Nijel
Wijnaldum
Flop
BMI
Afellay
Weil
Depay.
Affelay has more foot skill than anyone else on the team, we need this type of player in the final third, a smart coach knows how to play these types of players, they don’t need to give long passes just short sharp 1/2’s around the penalty area to create confusion in defensive lines. Affelay played wide in the first half and deep in the second, he should have been playing 10, Classie should have played instead of DeJong to be the intelligent one with Sniejder. But I know your thoughts on Affelay, you’ve made them clear.
Dear Hiddink
PLease play with following line up vs Spain..they are out for revenge,so they will screw u and finally we will geta better coach
plz go with
Depay——–Hunter———wijnaldum
——–Sneijder—–afellay——
————-Dejong—————
Blind——-BMI—-Veltman—vanderweil
—————-Cillessen————–
What is the quality that Wijnaldum brings this team? I suppose he’s solid defensively–but he did not impress me in attack in the World Cup at all.
clasie out with knee injury.
Jus looking at the critics on Hiddink to quit and all,I just feeling like laughing. jus go and fuck your selves. I will admit that player selection was definitely wrong but First of all no body wants to admit that eredivise has lost its grit once it was re noun for . Not simply beacuse they are not producing talents but there is simply no platform for this talents to work on and to stretch their limits. Producing talents is one thing and transforming them to elite is another.
they have to start looking at players outside of eredivise. it is simply as that. Dutch players who are in average teams in big leagues are far more better composed then the gang in eredivise and the game vs Turkey was the eye opener.
I happy that this has been exposed at time when we still have time to change our approach.
Alexender Buttner (Dynamo Moscow)
Virgil Van Dijik (Celtic)
Marco Van Ginkle (Milan)
Nathan Ake (Chelsea/Reading)
Patrick Van Annoholt (Sunderland)
Jeremine Lens (Dynamo Kyiv)
Leandro Bacuna (Aston Villa)
Guus its time.
Look at the critics on Hiddink to quit and all. I jus feel like laughing. Go and fuck your self. I will admit that the player selection was wrong but who is to blame here.Hiddink or KNVB. Firstly no body wants to admit the erdivise has lost its grit once it was renoun for. Its not jus about producing talents but there is simply no platform for this talents to work on or where they potential can be fully stretched.Producing talents is one thing and transforming them to elites is another. It is jus like new born baby but no milk to feed them.
They have to start looking at players out of eredivise. It is simply as that. Players playing in average teams in big leagues are far more better composed than the gang in eredivise and the game vs Turkey was a real eye opener.
I happy that this was exposed at a time when we still can change our approach and stream line our mistakes.
Alexender Butnner (Dynamo Moscow)
Virjil Van Dijik (Celtic)
Marco Van Ginkle (Milan)
Nathan Ake (Chelsea/Reading)
Patrick Van Annholt (Sunderland)
Jeremine Lens (Dynamo Kyiv)
Leandro Bacuna (Aston Villa)
Ola John (Benefica)
Ricky wolfswinkle (Saint Ethiene)
double trouble
Jan, I totally agree with you about KNVBs lack of balls.. its flowing down all the way through to the players and I think this is the most concerning thing for dutch football, not a lack of talent or lack of great coaches.. it is not so simple as picking a differnet player over another or messing around with formations.. To me, seeing the way we were playing in that first half means that even if Guus picked a completely different 11 then the same thing could have happen. So many comments about different players, lack of talent in the current dutch generation etc (to which I actually disagree), and also that another formation may work better… but to me the lack of balls is the real problem and is leading to a lack of vision and a lack of belief/winning mentality and to me that is the main reason we seem to be in slump.
——————-Cillessen—————-
—-Janmaat—-DeVrij—-BMI—-Blind——-
——-Wijnaldum—-Nigel—-Sneijder——-
—–Narsingh——Huntelaar——Depay—–
This is really bad news for Dutch Football.
France 4-1 NT (U21)
Netherlands line-up: De Fockert, Karsdorp, Woudenberg, Van Beek, Kongolo (75. Tete), Ayoub (67. Leemans), Vilhena, Van Overeem (75. Hardeveld), Kishna (65. Janssen), El Ghazi (75. Klaiber), Boëtius (65. Menig).
Both Van Beek and Kongolo conceding a penalty each
This is what I was saying about Eredivise losing its grit compared to Ligue 1.
Nardi
MendyLaporte
Conte
Gbamin [Subbed Off 87′]
Rabiot
Tolisso [Penalty Goal 72′]
Martial
Isimat-Mirin
Walter
Benzia
Subs
Haller
Lenglet
this is sad man. jus compare the two squad
I jus know Isimt-Marin and Raboit from that squad. NT household names but to no avail
Football is about 11 men team,
This team only had 5 good players maximum..
u cannot expect anything from Elgazi,Boetius,Ayoub….these players are overarted
Kishna has something in his pocket,but guy is full of himself and blind…
its just an offday fro vanbeek and kongolo….
Vilhen sits in bench…
so who in mind should have started?
@wilson ..selection pattern should change from childhood….they must look for natural intelligent players who is able to give quick passes …..
there might be some players…we need to look for them..i am not in netherlands…am not scout too…but i would be glad to work as scout for guus hiddink for NT…
http://www.football-oranje.com/dutch-teams-may-pay-price-poor-european-performances/
i want Guus to get out for the sake of NT…Today i am rooting for Spain to demolish dutch….Viva Spain…Guus out,only that will help us ….
even if KNVB brings Albert stuivenburg would be much better that outdated Hiddink…
@Spain Common take a revenge….plz help us to get rid of Hiddink…
Hiddink keeps selecting mediocre players in 11 and gets foooled,he does it repeatedly….Cezc and iceland are not great teams so is turkey…Guus Hiddink is sole responsible for thsi like Scelary did for Brazil,Now Dunga winning everything for BRazil
Common KNVB wakeup…………
No more Hiddink
Spain Played 4-1-4-1 vs Ukraine
.Their strength clearly lies in the midfield and that where Hiddink should concentrate on. With Both Isco and Silva as false wingers,you expect them to draw the defenders inside with the fullbacks overlalping. you see this alot with Zabaletta and Silva at Man City.
On the left you expect Isco to drift to the right with LB overlapping. If spain starts with same formation then Nigel De Jong will the best person to start with to counter the midfield attack. Another position which should be an area of concern is fullbacks. they will have to communicate as they can so that they are not lured out of position.
Afellay-Hunter-Narsingh
Sneijder- De Jong – Wijnaldum
Blind -BMI-De Vrij-Janmaat
Cillessen.
You cannot start sneijder and Depay both together,they will keep on interfering with each other. Sneijder likes to drift to the left so with a left winger he will always have the option to cut in or release the overlapping winger. On the right it will be the same story between Wijnaldum and Narsingh while Hunter will have the luxury ofspace in the middle to move between the defenders.
If we are in crisis then sub De Jong and Bring in Dost and Depay.
——Dot—–Hunter———-
Depay——————Narsingh
—-Sneijder—–Wijnaldum—–
Blind—-BMI—De Vrij—Janmaat
Cillessen.
in the face of all those assholes who wanted hiddinik to
go.
HT Holland 2-0 spain