In what could have been a first upset on Game Day 1 of the WC qualification group of Oranje, Holland could have lead with 3 points, while favorites France couldn’t manage to score in their first match.

But, sadly, a strong Oranje created many good opportunities to score but saw Sweden hit the net first, after a rare Strootman howler. Oranje got back into the game with skipper Sneijder finishing an excellent move by Daryl Janmaat. Late in the game, Bas Dost seemed to have scored a perfectly legal goal to give Oranje the deserved three points, but the Italian ref somehow saw something untowards…

Dost scores

Danny Blind: “We’re bitterly disappointed, to be honest. Kevin Strootman is in a foul mood and he’ll probably won’t come out for interviews. I’m also quite cross with that referee. It was a perfect goal. What happened in that duel is what happens 67 times in both boxes during a game. Either you give a foul and a penalty for all these instances, or a defensive free kick, or not. But to disallow Dost’s goal…. Pathetic. We could have taken three points and have two points on France. It’s disappointing we didn’t, coz I felt the team did everything right. Our tactics worked, the players executed it perfectly, we created chance after chance… Very unlucky. But, it does give us  something to build on…”

stroot duel

Before the game, in the press conference, Blind was quite clear: “We are coming here to win. But, if winning is not possible, at least we need to make sure we don’t lose!”

I agree with Blind. We did everything right, but score. And if it wasn’t for that a-typical mistake by Strootman, the one Sneijder goal would have been enough.

Holland dominated from the start. Patient build up, allowing the ball to be zipped around. Sweden, playing at home, were set up to not lose. Two banks of four, with 2 strikers. Guidetti and Berg, shrewd and experienced. Sweden didn’t want the ball and was basically hoping for a mistake by the Dutch.

Blind’s set up was perfect. He opted for two strong defenders to deal with the Swedish forwards. Van Dijk in particular played a brilliant game. Strootman sitting in front of those two would be the safeguard. Ironically, it was the usually solid midfielder who gave Sweden a present. Blind used Janmaat on the right, knowing he would playing as a winger more than anything. This means that Wijnaldum, on the right hand of midfield, had to play more controlling, as Janmaat and Promes were in charge of the attacking side of things. The Liverpool man’s job was to guard the balance and he didn’t show a lot of penetrative running for us.

Sneijder goal Swed

On the left, with Sneijder as the false left winger, Blind wanted a player who’d play more controlled on that left wing, as Sneijder obviously wouldn’t be able to track 60 meters back all the time if a player like Willems or Van Aanholt would lose possession.

The left flank was kept open for Blind to venture into (at times he did and created some good crosses from the left with Sneijder) and Vincent Janssen and Davey Klaassen used that space to enter into as well.

And it worked wonder. Holland created close to 8 real chances, with a number of opportunities to shoot as well. The number of crosses and corner kicks added to this and you can see that Oranje’s only problem in this game was: scoring.

It was the penetration runs of Klaassen that got him the most opportunities. Couple of headers, little dink by Strootman, putting him one on one with Swedish goalie… Vincent Janssen did get some joy too, but the stocky striker was mostly impressive with his hold up play, his runs and work rate and a couple of decent efforts from distance (one tipping the bar after a deflection).

klaassen

Everything clicked. No single player was disappointing. Sure, Janmaat had some defensive slip ups, but those things happen. Nothing came of it (in one instance, Van Dijk had to stretch and use all his agility to head the ball over the goal) and Bruma was not the best in his passing, but all in all, no one stood out in a negative way.

I would like to see more from Promes, personally. It feels like he lacks confidence. In the first half in particular, he made some bad choices, where a quick through ball or one-two combination was on the cards, but he did well with Janmaat on the right flank.

The only really negative moment I can recall by Oranje, was Strootman’s fumble. What was he thinking? Trying to get the ball under control with Markus Berg lurching, he could have played the safe square ball to Janmaat but decided to want to control the ball properly. He half stood on the ball, lost his balance and Berg was in possession. His goal was a peach!

Berg scores

In our first qualification game for the Euros 2016, vs the Czechs, Daryl Janmaat was guilty of a howler. Coach Hiddink publically attacked Janmaat for it and decided not to call him up anymore. That did not go down well with the players and was most likely the start of the drama. Now, when asked how he rated Strootman’s mistake, Blind said: “What can I say. Strootman is devastated. He knows he let the team down. I don’t need to remind him. Players make 100s of decisions in a game and it goes all very fast. Players who are in the thick of things, make mistakes. They’re not always lethal. This one was. We need to get over it and go on.”

Virgil van Dijk had a guild edged opp from a Sneijder free kick but he couldn’t bring the ball down, giving the goalie a chance to stop it, and Bas Dost was through on goal at one stage, where a simple side footed pass into the goal would have sealed the deal.

blind sweden

So, a disappointing result where 3 points were the deserved outcome, but all in all a good performance.

Particular taking into account that the pressure was on! The failure to qualify was still hanging over this team, add to that the shenanigans at the KNVB and the lacklustre 60 minutes vs Greece… It was game on and the punters in Holland were adamant that a bad result vs Sweden would mean Blind would have to pack his bags.

The Dutch coach was interviewed about this at the press conference and said this. “Do I feel the pressure? I don’t really. It’s the media that discuss this at length, we don’t go there internally. We focus on what we can do, should do, and must do. That is all we can do. I understand there is pressure, and that is normal. But I don’t feel it, I am not in any way constrained or influenced by it.”

Cool and collected, but the question was: would Oranje choke vs Sweden if things would go awry during the game?

And it didn’t. That, to me, is the biggest win of this first round. Blind picked the right squad, the right tactics, the right line up. It worked. What didn’t work, was us killing the game off and sadly one of our leaders on the pitch had one momentary lapse of reason, gifting the Swedes the goal of the Game Day.

Wesley Sneijder: “This is not the best Oranje I ever played in, in terms of individual qualities. But, this is becoming a solid team. And that is probably as important, if not more important.”

protest ref

Later in the night, Kevin Strootman did come in front of the cameras. “I’m vice captain. I can’t make a mistake and not show up to talk about it. I am pretty devastated though. I have been going on and on in the last months about how we make too many individual mistakes. And here I am, we finally play a real qualification game and now I am the one throwing it away. And I can’t tell you what happened, it was a black out of some sorts, I can’t turn it into any kind of excuse. And yes, I hear Dost’s goal might have been legit, but I am the last guy here to talk about another guy’s mistake…”

We’re away, and things could have been worse….

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141 responses to “Strong Oranje “forgets” to take the three points!”

  1. TIJU1234 says:

    Blind did many right things….and a good solid team is shaping up…
    As for promes he lacks quality like Narsingh..Depay lost is pace ..So AT any cost these 3 should not be our wingers…But i do like promes as he has hell of work rate which balances the team…Ditto goes with Narsingh..Both should only be selected if our first choice players get injured…thos efirst choice wingers should be
    On Right its Janmaat and Roben
    On left its Annholt and Naouri..
    How about a team of
    ————Zoet—————
    Kevindiks—-Devrij—Mensah–Kongolo
    ———Strootman—Blind———-
    Janmaat——Bazoer———naouri
    ————Janssen—————
    on bench
    ————krul/vorm————
    Tete——Bruma—–Virgil—Annholt
    ———De roon—-Hendrix———
    Roben———Sneijder——-Williams
    ————–Luuk———————-

    • Oranjeboven says:

      I agree lots of times with you! But Kongolo ahead of Willems and Van Anholt? And sure Mensah is a big talent ,but he is not rdy yet to play first team, same goes for Nouri sure he is a exeptionally talented young fellas but he lacks physical strenght to compete at this level!
      Actually i would play 3-5-2:

      —————-Krul—————————DevriiJ—-Virgil——–Blind—————-Strootman—-Wijnaldum———-
      Jaanmaat———Sneidjer——Anholt————–Robben——–Janssen————

  2. van banger says:

    I watched the replay last night and I’m feeling ripped off over not getting the three points. We played some nice one touch football which has been missing for a while now, although some of our players should have done more. Klassen can’t keep missing chances like he did, goals are vital to our team especially scoring first in a match like this one.
    Strootman – it’s hard to watch one of your favourite players, whom you have met in person, fuck it up like he did! I’m moving on.
    Wjynaldum was invisible to me , I want more from him Ditto for Blind, Blind would not be in my starting lineup.
    Janmaat was having a tough day but redeemed himself on the goal, thankfully!
    Promes is a keeper for me, he looks sharp and willing to take a player on in the final third and can get balls into the area I was happy with him. Ditto Jannsen.
    I’ve been critical so Snjieder lately but wow he really impressed me in this game, if he can keep delivering like he did then let him play , I say!
    Virgil saved our asses again, that header over the bar when he was falling over was crucial to our team, if he missed it they would have scored a sitter. He did slip over earlier in the game and also was lucky not to be called for handball but he is still my first player picked in any Dutch squad ATM.
    Dost won us the game, we only have one point to show for it though, what a shit decision by the ref.
    Anyhow onwards and upwards Hup Holland

  3. mago says:

    oh look! Blind has abandoned the 4-3-3! It took him two years (and it cost us a European Championship) to notice the obvious. Welcome to the real world Danny!

  4. wilson says:

    Jan im trying to load this UCL from last few days but its not loading.i think Dost did make the contact while Lindelof was in the air. I think jus because he he in the air,he received the benefit of doubt but the contact was there.jus type in bas dost disallowed goal and go to that second video.the one which recorded from the TV screen.

    You be the judge.The 2 angle.

  5. wilson says:

    I think Sweden are in the same phase like NT when Blind took over from Hiddink. With Zaltan and some other senior players retiring,its back to drawing board for them and starting from scratch.NT should also take heed of this and try not to use Robben as the main focal point. If he gets injured it will always be a nose down pitch for them and more over his absence will change the rthym of the whole game which again will be noise down pitch motion. We have all seen this in the European qualification.

  6. wilson says:

    I will always use Van Dijk for the the sake of argument to prove where its going wrong for NT and if they continue to go in the same direction,its always gona be gloomy days ahead.

    Van dijk was one of the best defenders in eredivisie when he was at Groningen. Stats prove it and he was also in the eredivisie team of the year but yet he never made it to NT. Even at U21 level he was in pecking order behind those who were playing for the heavyweights in eredivisie.I think he only made three appearance for the U 21s.van Gaal overlooked him for Veltman presumingly jus because he was playing Celtic.you look at all the CBs that came through the U21s,that went to the world cup,BMI,De Vrij,Bruma,Nuytinck,Veltman minus Vlaar and compare them to Van Dijk. what the F**k happened. This the the biggest problem,either with the selectors,whoever they are or simply the coach, they are failing to recognise players who have technical abilities and have higher ceiling and are trying to build the team around players who have limited abilities and those who are playing for heavy weights in eredivisie. It has never worked and it will never work. They have to come out of this this delusional fantasy that they are the only ones for the orange jumper.

    You look at when Koeman moved to Southampton. He signed Dusan Tadic,Cuco Martina (Twente),Van Dijk (Celtic),Bertrand,Romeu (Chelsea)why did he sign this players? They were all average players in their own respect but yet had Technical abilities to reach higher ceiling . I will minus Pelle and Clasie because they played under him he he knew them better. But again all these players lived up to ecpectation under him even compared to van gaal at Man United who spent millons but yet got kicked out.it goes to show his ability as a coach to see the true qualities of a player regardless of where they play and to mould them in exceptional players.

    Neither papa blind has shown the potential to mould the players in the last 2 years and nor has his selection been based on players who have big balls.

    • wilson says:

      I will edit one part above. It has worked before when eredivisie was at its peak but not present day.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Actually Blind has not been in the job for 2 years yet, just over 1 year (I know it has seemed like so long) – so what do you expect from him here exactly?

      I do agree VvD could have been selected earlier but I don’t think anyone can be surprised by the way things went for him.
      And that has what to do with Blind?

      Personally I want a Dutch manager to concentrate on his tactics and putting a team out there who can execute it, not molding players who may have potential.
      Players need to show their worth and realize their potentials at club level.

      Now you do believe in stats? That’s a good change for you. Actual data is always good rather than making things up, although you haven’t given any stats so who knows I guess..
      Speaking of stats, have you got any stats on balls sizes for us? 😉

      • wilson says:

        Actually I read a article on him
        Which mentioned number of goals that’s was scored against him through out the season when he was at Groningen.pretty much that is the stats which I was referring to,not the one you always try to associate to the players which does not necessarily show the true picture.

        • Sybe Pals says:

          So you answer only the joke question of mine, and none of the others about your post.
          And are you trying to insult me, blaming me on twisting the truth using facts but you can give no actual example?

          Or maybe you are still compiling your data so that you can answer the questions properly. 😉

  7. Jan says:

    Good points all… As for Dost using his arm, you cannot jump without using the arms. If this was a foul, there will be 121 fouls every game. He didn’t shove him, just proteced himself. Ridiculous decision.

    As for 4-3-3 and Blind: don’t forget this people: after the WC2014 Bert van Oostveen instructed Hiddink and Blind to revert back to 4-3-3 (Dutch School).

    We never play 4-3-3 with real wingers, btw, we always have right footers on the left and vice versa.

    So I don’t buy your 4-3-3 comment 🙂

  8. Jan says:

    Tiju, I am not going to comment on your line up :-).

  9. Jan says:

    I seriously can’t understand the criticism on Janmaat! I think he was one of our key players. Always available on the flank. Constantly running into the channel. He had two good crosses which could have been turned into goals. He started move that got us the goal.

    Yes, he got done twice, it happens. Alba and Alves and co have this too. Your best defenders are simply not the full backs anymore. Nothing came of it.

    Puzzles me….

  10. dwherwey says:

    It seems like the quality of the wingers is a real problem right now. Perhaps a 4-4-2 diamond would be best? Probably too late to be making such a drastic change though. Just hoping Robben can get fit and stay fit before the next set of qualifiers.

    • Ruud says:

      haha, i don’t agree with you as i strongly believe we have so many talents at the wings but somehow most of them not in form & lack confident this time & young boys not ready yet.

      Memphis, Locadia, El Ghazi, Kishna, Promes, Narsigh, Robben, Dos santos, Bergwijn, Elia even some LRB can also play as a winger such as Willems, Janmaat, van Aanholt, Kevin Diks. If you say we are lacking resource at the wings that mean you don’t understand current situation of our Orange. As i said in another posted article we currently really have problem with Striker & Playmaker that’s why you can see until now Coach still want to utilize Sneijder & emerge of Janssen the rest of our playmaker & striker in current squad they are just mediocre not at top level if you compare with even non-traditional football country.

      – Amernia: they have Mkhitaryan
      – Switzerland: they have Shaqiri
      – Turkey: they have Turan
      – Etc

  11. van den Berg says:

    Surprised Buttner isn’t included on someones lineup.

    Wijnaldum to me is a puzzle. I know he’s working, but sometimes seems that he’s invisible for much of the game. Like 70 minutes in before I realize, “oh yeah, he’s playing”…

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Haha Buttner…

      Yea I feel the same on Wijnaldum, maybe too similar to Klaassen to get the most balanced midfield that can feed forwards better and create more IMO.
      They had some Ok moments but their timing with Strootman is not the best, and both disappear at times.
      But hard to say much bad on Gini tho, he always fights for Oranje, always works hard, and actually he keeps scoring, unlike Klaassen with his 3 or 4 chances! Maybe the most consistent scorer under Blind as well..

      • wilson says:

        Glad to see there are others on this blog who also actually see what I have been emphasing all this time about players with natural abilities. Van der berg,Buttner should have been the no 1 LB for NT,but as usually he fell viticm to player preference and now is facing club crisis. He still has contract with Dynamo Moscow but they have been relegated due to financial crisis and they are in no position to entertain foreign players. Was looking forward for him joining a new club during the transfer window but it never eventuated even though there were intrest from some teams. Looks like he is done.

  12. ycsng0822 says:

    Personally felt that the Sweden game is by far the best game the Dutch played over the last two years. Everyone was clear with the game plan and played well. The team kept the shape well with a distinct style of play. Danny Blind set up the team to play compact, and through the middle and clearly achieved the objective. We never look like losing and could have easily won 4-1 or 5-1 on another day. Credit to Danny Blind and team as I believed this is a culmination of efforts put in over the last few matches, starting from the summer friendlies.

    I am quietly optimistic of the team doing well in this qualifier, and even topping the group. 🙂

  13. KJ says:

    The best thing is I think I can see a solid team shaping up with Blind finally settled on to some mainstays. I think VvD, Blind Jr, Strrotman, Sneijder, Wijnaldum, and Jansen are the core of the team. And Blind Sr is making them play some nice football too. If Robben is fit then it’s a bonus. I just hope that our players stop this tradition of taking turns to do silly mistakes each game.

    Btw, very nice interview of Gullit in the Guardian:
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/07/ruud-gullit-holland-football-euro-2016-johan-cruyff

  14. richarde says:

    RE the first two Klaassen headers, maybe he needs to time his move to goal a bit better so that he has some forward momentum, or maybe the crosses need to be a bit flatter with more pace?. He was standing flat-footed on the first two and could not generate sufficient power off of balls that were floated high and dropped in. Or maybe Klaassen didn’t generate enough head action. His third header was better but the keeper made a good save. It was a good performance.

  15. richarde says:

    I just saw the disallowed Dost goal. You can’t call that. Dost gives the defender a slight nudge with his hip, giving him enough room to get off his header. This is what players do–about 500 times a game, as Blind said. They use their bodies. It was a very subtle move of which any player would be proud. It’s not like he slammed into the guy.

  16. andrew says:

    Re: Call on Dost. Not a foul, for me. As Richarde points out, all he did was shift his hips to get position on a defender. Watching the replay again, the referee was in a good position to see it, so it wasn’t really a guess on his part. I wonder if he would have made the call if the play had occurred in the 60th mminute, not the the 90th.

    Sneijder was excellent. He seemed to have ideas that were sometimes a step or two ahead of the other players.

    There hs been some talk about Blind and Wijnaldum not having good games. I don’t agree with that assessment as to Blind. Given the set up, and with Janm. given the license to play so far forward, he had to stay back to give the defense balance across the backline. He went forward when he could,; and his reading of the game and positional sense was, as usual, excellent.

    With regards to Wijnaldum, I’m not sure. He wasn’t making the penetrating runs that he you would expect, and he didn’t seem as involved offensively, but that may have been because, with Klaassen and Janm. pushing so far forward, to join the front 3, he felt he needed to provide some coverage in the mf. In which case, while he may not have had many touches, his positioning would have been influencing the game.

    In any event, Blind had them set up well and ready to play. Looking forward to October; hoping they get some goals against Belarus and go into the France game on a high note.

  17. Jan says:

    I also find it interesting that everyone thought Sneijder played really well but nobody seems to realise this is partly due to Daley Blind covering the space in the left midfield. It’s like Michels using Erwin Koeman in the 1988 team to keep Muhren protected. The (then) 37 year old master was able to direct the play and not worry about tracking back.

    Erwin Koeman literally did nothing remarkable in the whole tournament. There was no assist, no shot on goal, no goal, nothing. Same with Vanenburg. Playing in function of Gullit, Van Basten and Muhren.

    Did anyone ever criticise Erwin Koeman? No. Because people with a football brain recognise why he was there and what his role was.

    You can’t say “Sneijder was great, but Daley Blind was rubbish” in the same sentence 🙂

  18. Jan says:

    Thanks for the Ruud Gullit link!

    As for Dutch wingers, we do have players on the wings, but most of them these days play on the “wrong” side. Which is fine, but then you need to set up the team with attacking full backs, or at least one. I think Kishna needs to develop more, Locadia is not a winger. He disappoints big time in big matches for PSV. He is a centre striker really. Elia shows promise again. Memphis isn’t playing and El Ghazi has had a tremendous drop in quality and might lose his spot to Ziyech

  19. Ruud says:

    Our current generation is quite good for Back-line & Winger i think.

    – Goalies : it’s no doubt we have Cillessen at one of biggest club in the world, Zoet now is mature can win even all of threats from Atlético, Stekelenburg ‘r returning his best form, beside that is Vermeer, Vorm. Especially Vorm ‘s playing very good at Spur.

    – DM: we don’t have to worry at Strootman is at top level, Bazoer, Hendrix, Fosu-Mesah, de Roon, Ake can also play this role, we can also utilize de Jong just return to europe to compete a position at national team.
    – CB: van Dijk, de Vrij at top level, we still have Martins Indi, Hoedt, Blind, Rekik, der Hoorn, Letschert, Riedewald, Gouweleeuw, Veltman. so many options to consider.

    – LRB & LRW: so many talents

  20. Ruud says:

    still not forget time when Lens playing for AZ & Dynamo Kyiv, look like Sunderland coach don’t give faith on him, hopefully with the move to Turkey he can get back his best.

  21. wilson says:

    Alot of you guys have said Daley Blind should start at LB. It is jus a matter of time with teams like France,Beligum his weakness will be exposed just like before .as usually he is only good for teams like Sweden,Luxembourg, Belarus where NT can dominate possession and play high tempo game. The moment they play with teams with equal suppressing game,the Cork will come of the bottle

    written this down some where.

    Then papa will then shift him to DM and It will be going round and round like when you play ringa ringa roses

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Maybe it was when you were guaranteeing that he would never play CB for Mourinho’s ManChelsea United?
      Haha

      • wilson says:

        I don’t remember saying it,but if I may have said it, than let’s wait and see who will form a better partnership. blind and baily or smalling and baily.

        • Sybe Pals says:

          Could care less who builds a better partnership, you miss the point. I wish Blind left that shit hole of a club actually, but who cares as long as things are still going well for him – since I only wish the best for our dutchies 👍

  22. Oranjeboven says:

    I really dont understand the bashing of Daley Blind, he has shown us more then one time that he is a highly intelligent player with such a high adaptilibity to different positions! Yeah i agree i would not put him on the left against a fast winger but then again he is stronger defensivly then the likes of Willems and Van Anholt! For me against stronger teams we should play with 5-3-2 when they are in possesion and when we hold the ball switch to 3-5-2! For the simple reason that our defense is not worldclass anymore and if we want to have a chance against teams like france we need to reeinforce it!

    • Sybe Pals says:

      I think I agree with you, if we cannot dictate how a game is played versus the strongest teams (which we cannot do IMO unless we have a few world class players again, like van Persie, van der Vaart, Sneijder and Robben in their primes) then we probably need to be able to adapt our tactics.

    • dwherwey says:

      Honestly the Daley Blind criticism is completely unfounded. Is there any other player on this team who plays at a high level for a top club in one of the top leagues in Europe? The fact is Blind has been one of the top five players in each of his first two seasons at Man U and he’s looked even stronger this season.

      For me central defence is the strongest area in the team right now. As long as the two CB’s are picked from the quartet of Blind, De Vrij, Bruma, and Van Dijk, we will be just fine.

  23. Sybe Pals says:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/11tegen11/status/773565391624888320

    Check out that figure regarding our seemingly mediocre CM situation.. seems it is mostly the wing backs who are able to find them, but not so often.
    Of course, as many also noticed, Strootman’s game in particular suffers more than others’ when he can’t find them to get the ball to.

    But, glad we were able to create some chances despite this!
    But what I can’t decide, if it is our plan to play more on the wings, or is this just what happens because of Wijnaldum and Klaassen’s inability to find space and create some chances?

  24. wilson says:

    @ dwherwey where were you when Buttner was playing at Man United.

    Its amazing that during buttners days at Man United, he was never seen as playing at top club because that time eredivisie was top and Daley Blind and Ajax were better than Buttner and Man United. Look for that Bayern and Man United game and then you decide why he is not in the team or why he was left out of that WC squad. Well I won’t drag much on about Buttner but its a totally different story when Daley is playing for Man United compared to when he he playing for NT.why? Simply because the load factor at man united is much to the centre which suits him but when its comes to NT that load factor shifts forward, meaning its all ways gona be pressure time and this is where weakness will always be exposed.
    NT don’t have probga,Fellani,Schwensteiger,scheiderlin where Daley can sit back and lookcomposed like when he plays for Man united.

    Maybe Syber Pals can help you here. Compare his stats for Man united to when he is playing for NT. I won’t be surprised with the outcome.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Sure, I would be happy to (even though you keep trying to insult me – can we give up that kinda childish shit yet please?)

      “Its amazing that during buttners days at Man United, he was never seen as playing at top club”
      I’m not sure that’s true, but if it is then maybe it is because he was not really playing all that much!

      Lets just consider the easiest of all stats: games played.
      Looks like in his 2 years in Manchester Buttner only started 9 EPL matches and 5 CL games.
      He was not even on the bench for as many matches than he was even in the squad. Never a regular starter really.
      Should I really compare with Daley’s first 2 years?

      Buttner also did this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10909431/Manchester-United-left-back-Alex-Buttner-hits-out-at-Louis-van-Gaal-with-bizarre-man-of-the-match-claims.html
      (what a moronic move)
      He did have a few great games – like versus Robben/Bayern once in the CL as you mention. And also scored a screamer in Russia, amongst other things.

      Those are just facts, besides my ‘moronic move’ comment.. My opinion – would have really liked for him to stick it out and show his worth under LvG (not unlike Blind under Mourinho actually!).
      Maybe had a higher ceiling at one point as he is more athletic than Blind, but apparently he is not half as smart so we will probably never know what he might have been.
      It’s a shame really!

      Also, I’ll add that one isolated good game (in this case v Bayern, where Buttner was really great) does not necessarily mean a player is a lock for his national team. Is that really surprising?

      • wilson says:

        Pals we have talked in depth about Buttner before so no use going all over again but this is what I have to say in general.Buttner was progressing with every game he played given he was a backup for Evra. Obviously it would have taken him some time to adopt to EPL like everybody ( Depay) and that was a postive sign and against Bayern he really showcased his abilities that he could step up on big ocassions even though as you said he featured mostly on the bench. I don’t know how people see this as but this is where you can tell where the ceiling of a particular player lies and if Buttner would have stayed at Man United he would have gone far.this been said he wasn’t bad either at Dynamo,especially when they featured with PSV in the Europa, but as usually player and club preference limited his selection in NT.

        As I have said earlier,it has all gone down the drain. First Daley Blind failed big time at LB and if he continues he will fail again,Willems based on his performance in eredivisie all this time has only managed to become the king of crosses. Is this the way forward. Don’t think so.its all about investing in right players.

        I remember about that article.he made that claims after moving to dynamo Moscow. This after van Gaal has summoned the signing of Luke shaw even before the World Cup and after his non selection in the world cup squad.

        You are saying he should have stick out and prove his worth to LVG. Only a dump player will stick around and fight for spot after he is third in pecking order and also knowing the coach doesn’t have confidence in him given his non selection in WC squad. This is also why EVra also moved to Juventus after Shaws arrival.

        Even if he would have decided to stay as you mentioned, Blind arrival would have completely pushed him back meaning he would have been deemed surplus and most probably he would have loaned out to some average club.

        again you put him at any position for NT.in a high tempo suppressing game he will always throw the towel.write this down some where.

        • Sybe Pals says:

          So Buttner should have stayed at Man Utd and he would have gone far, and also he would be dumb to stay?
          You keep bringing up Buttner while you express your distaste for Blind, and for apparently no reason. You bring it up out of nowhere, you said: Alot of you guys have said Daley Blind should start at LB. But looking above, no has even said that!
          So then you ask me for some stats in your condescending post to dwherwey (even though I know that was an insult), but then you refuse to answer my questions.
          So are you just trying to be a shit disturber or what?

          You think Blind will ‘throw in the towel’? Do you even know what that phrase means? You think he is going to give up during a game and leave the pitch before fulltime?
          Is this what you mean when you say Blind failed bigtime at LB?

          Listen, it is totally fine if you dont like Blind.
          And, I dont care about your pointless and cynical predictions about him either.
          But no need to make things up!

          • wilson says:

            pals I envy him just because he tends get all the attention when there are others who can be better than but will never get one. it has always been the case.

            lets give it a rest and jus wait for some games where this will be more applicable

          • Sybe Pals says:

            what attention here besides yours?
            and why wait, you brought it up.

            even if he makes a massive mistake just as Strootman did, it will still not mean that Blind is shit and must get tossed aside. the response is more important, everyone makes mistakes.

            Anyway dwherwey already said it perfectly above: Is there any other player on this team who plays at a high level for a top club in one of the top leagues in Europe? The fact is Blind has been one of the top five players in each of his first two seasons at Man U and he’s looked even stronger this season.

  25. Jan says:

    It’s all a bit too much about Daley Blind as an individual and as a the coach’ son.

    I think it is unfair.

    Van Gaal is not his dad, Hiddink is not his dad, Mourinho is not his dad. Danny Murphy is not his dad.

    Daley has a lot of admirers but probably only to be spotted by the more seasoned football viewers.

    The point is not, whether he is the perfect CB, because he is not. Nor is he the perfect LB or CM. He is not.

    But what he does have as strength is highly dependable and actually quite unique.

    If Blind has better options than his son, I am 100% certain he’d use them and bench Daley.

    But Daley’s reading of the game, his positioning and his ball control are exemplary compared to some of the trees who play as center back in the EPL.

    Blind was not in Mourinho’s plans in July 2016, but in September 2016, he is vice captain.

    Say. No. More.

  26. Jan says:

    Excellent post Sybe Pals. Comparing Buttner’s career with Blind’s at Man U is like comparing Falcao’s career with Robin van Persie’s at Man U 🙂

  27. wilson says:

    Jan if you are saying if papa has better options he will bench Daley. Its bit intriguing why he benched van dijk vs Greece and then vs Sweden started him at LB and shifted sonny boy to LB. I know many critics will say it was a technical move jus because
    all of a sudden Willems is no more reliable and Daley was a better defensive option jus because he is vice captain at Man United. Why not start Van Dijk and Blind and PVA at LB given how Janmaat defensively was lethargic but was influential going forward.I’m sure PVA wouldnt have been bad than janmaat.
    Again it all comes back to player and club presence.isn’t it. I mean Daley doesn’t play LB at Man United but yet make shift position for him. One reason as you said.vice captain.

    There is two big games for NT coming up,France (WCQ)and Belgium (FRD). I hope sonny boy is not injured.

    • wilson says:

      “Started Van Dijk at LCB”

    • Jan says:

      No, I don’t think you are correct.

      Remember the type of defender Danny was? And how offensive teams played/play with CB’s with build up qualities?

      I give you: Barca>Koeman, AC Milan> Scirea, Oranje>Haan, etc etc… Blind at 1995 Ajax of course.

      We prefer to play with a playmaking CB with vision and positioning skills.

      However, playing Sweden with counter-attacking 4-4-2 system and two “wrestling” strikers, it made perfect sense to use two real defenders (with speed), as we’d play with space behind us.

      By using Sneijder as false left winger, Blind needed a tactical savvy LB. With all due respect: Van Aanholt and Willems are not those players.

      Willems was rightfully dropped for Sweden after his abysmal performance vs Greece (check their winning goal and how he tracked back!).

      Using Daley as LB vs Sweden was tactically a perfect solution. With Janmaat, we have a mediocre defender with great attacking prowess.

      On the left, we needed something else.

      Despite the end-result I think Danny can say that the performance justified his choices.

      Don’t tempt me to list you the games Oranje played with either Bruma or Van Dijk where those two made mistakes leading to goals.

      Don’t get me wrong: I rate Van Dijk very high and love for him to be in the team.

      Btw, versus strong opponents, I’d prefer to see Sneijder in the Pirlo role in a 5-3-2 / 3-5-2

      Goalie (whoever)

      5 at the back:

      Janmaat Bruma Blind Van Dijk Willems/Aanholt

      Sneijder deep lying playmaker

      Propper Strootman

      Robben Janssen

      • wilson says:

        Jan I disagree
        There is no way Sweden had counter attacking 4-4-2 system compared to Greece.I get what you are saying about two strikers and the need for two real defenders. Are you saying here Daley is not a real CB?The Greek strikers were more mobile and penetrative than the Swedish and Papas decision to use Daley Blind didnt work out. Obviously he picked it up and vs Sweden he started van Dijk.

        You said ” By using Sneijder as false left winger, Blind needed a tactical savvy LB”. Again if you look at vs Greece,promes was on left cutting in on his right.sneijder as usually was drifting to left, which further dragged in wijnaldum to the middle.all the three were basically bunched up on that top left hand quadrant with strootman stretched to right covering for wijnaldum. This is why the gaps were opening on that midfle left especially when both sneijder and wijnaldum were caught out.it perfectly makes sense as to why Danny made the changes vs Sweden.

        I don’t think there was need for a tactical LB savvy even though when playing with flase winger. What about the midfielder. Strootman was on that LM with wijnaldum on the right and Klaassen on top. Doesn’t makes sense at all playing with a defensive LB.

        Why do you think wijnaldum was invisible in that game. Simply because he was restricted to defend especially with Janmaat overlapping.I’m sure strootman would have done the same if it would have been for offensive LB.

  28. TIJU1234 says:

    What worries me is not Daley Blind or Virgil van dijk..Both ha strength and weakness..Van dijk is leader which we lack at the moment..So slight preference for him nothing else..
    Why Daley blind played against greece over virgil ????thats coz he is son of Danny..
    Why Daley blind played over williams vs Sweden???Coz he is son of Danny…
    these are all facts…
    My real worry is we have sHi#$%%&&T OF WINGERS…they must be dropped for God Sake..or else we are in trouble and should promote Annholt and Janmaat/Vanrhijn as wingers…Both would be excellent as wingers..
    Daley Blind is an intelligent and very dependable player with little lack of speed and physical strength…We must utlise him with strootman as 2 holding mids as both are really class and has excellent vision and accuracy..
    ————-Zoet————-
    Kevindiks–Devrij—Mensah—Kongolo
    ——–Strootman—Blind———-
    Janmaat——Bazoer/Propper—-Annholt
    —————Janssen—————

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Aha, wilson and tiju are indeed merging with eachother! 😂

      As soon you said it is because Daley is the son of Danny that he plays, it became fiction.
      Greece friendly was probably because Blind had a better start with LCB in the EPL.
      Sweden as mentioned perfectly for you directly above by Jan

      • TIJU1234 says:

        Sybe pals its true that Blind finds a way to play his son always..thats too bad..I do like Daley blind as clever player…He is playing with baily who is beast in every aspect..with Pogba,and Fellaini/shnidrelin as cover…thats hell lots of physical p[woer and speed..so it works well at MAnu…
        i rate smalling equalto Virgil vandijk as both has flaws…
        Lets drop this blind issue..
        Blind is clever player wilson doesnt like such players.he likes Elvis manu,Afellay etc kind..
        All i want to see is good for NT whether blind plays or not it doesnt matter..

  29. mago says:

    Danny Blind will always find a place for his son. He continues to shift him, from CB to LB, from LB to midfield, from midfield to CB. Result: Daley is the only player Danny has never benched. Is this a coincidence? If we had 3 stars in those roles I think we’ll se him as forward…

  30. Jan says:

    Tiju? You make me laugh :-)….

    “Why Daley blind played against greece over virgil ????thats coz he is son of Danny..
    Why Daley blind played over williams vs Sweden???Coz he is son of Danny…
    these are all facts…”

    You don’t know the meaning of the word “fact”.

    These are your opinions. It is only a fact when Danny Blind says this, you funny guy, you. I LOVE YOU!

    This makes your whole argument worthless…

    Willems had a shocker against Greece. That is a fact!

    Sweden was disturbing our build up via our central defenders. That is what these cats do. They even had a midfielder moving up to Blind when Zoet had the ball. Our build up started via the flanks. Wijnaldum played in a controlling role, with Strootman center midfield. Klaassen played on the left of midfield. With Sneijder playing hanging/false winger, Klaassen was pushed next to Janssen. Hence the opportunities he got. That was the set up.

    Van Gaal used Daley on three positions in Oranje and in Man United. Is Daley his illegitimate son, maybe? Mourinho used Daley on two positions already? Maybe Daley is the love child of Louis and Jose, with Danny as the carrier?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    • TIJU1234 says:

      Anyways today Daley blind starts over smalling Vs city under Jose…I cannot decide between Daley and Vrigil in LCB spot..As for Lb Willems brings more threat than Daley.Anyways i am not worried about it as they do their job soem what okay if not convincing…My worries lies with Promes,Narshit,Depay ,elgahzi like futile wingers..

  31. TIJU1234 says:

    Wilson must be laughing now city1-0 leading…Blind is easily handled..

  32. ycsng0822 says:

    Honestly felt Blind got exposed and caught out because of the poor team play..can’t say he is solely at fault. Seems he wasn’t singled out by Jose also…Jose actually singled out Bailly! Expert sees the game differently..

    http://www.espnfcasia.com/manchester-united/story/2947005/jose-mourinho-has-regrets-over-man-united-team-selection-in-loss-to-city

  33. Sybe Pals says:

    Fer has now scored 3 of Swanseas 4 goals this season, and this time v Conte’s stingy Chelsea.
    Made 4 fouls in the first half and had a yellow and so I think he did well to relax the second half, score a goal, and even stay on the full 90 even though was def drained by the end.
    Would be good for him to keep this form a while.

    Thought van Dijk had a really good game yesterday away at Arsenal, Southampton probably unlucky not to at least draw but then Fonte conceded a borderline late pen. Looks so strong and had some crucial blocks.. Clasie was decent in RM. Good that he started for once, almost had his head booted off when Koscienly scored the equalizer. Nice with the ball in the middle and always appreciate his technique, lots of tackles but sloppy on the wings and gave the ball away a but much for his standard. Off injured.. again. Looked like a cramp he could not get over or a thigh strain.

    Thought Wijnaldum looked a bit tired, below his level, but had a nice assist.
    Blind looked below par too and esp when he was caught on that de Bruyne goal. Utd was not prepared to defend the long ball from a Pep side, Blind is not so strong in that scenario anyway. I thought his small error of keeping Iheanacho onside for second goal was the same sort of thing, the last player in a long line of small errors. Bad team defending. Should put blame on the manager if anywhere, even though he blames his players (like the clown he is). Still, obviously you want your sweeper/last man stopping these things from happening.
    I thought it was more a match of managerial mistakes but generally nice to see Mourinho/United get dominated, even though still a bit surprising for “Pep v Mourinho”..

    I didn’t watch but see BMI had a nightmare start for Stoke. Janssen played 15 mins at the end but the games was over and 4-0 by then. Still no goal for him.
    Also Ake left off of the Bournemouth team altogether, is he injured?
    de Roon came back and played a few minutes as a sub.
    Janmaat helped Watford comeback to beat West Ham 4-2 away.

    I didn’t watch any Germany games, anyone watch Augsburg? I see Gouweleeuw has scored
    Bruma had a clean sheet with Wolfsburg

    I didn’t watch any Italian games, anyone watch that?
    I see Strootman did well.
    De Vrij scores in a set piece. Played LCB and had loads of interceptions and recoveries, Kishna played 52 mins, Hoedt was benched. 1-1 finish.
    PS, 2 chances created for de Guzman for Chievo haha
    Kevin Diks kept his spot for Fiorentina.. on the bench.

    Promes had another assist today too

    I didn’t watch any eredivisie matches either but would love to hear about them.

    • primo says:

      Ake hasn’t started a game yet this season. I think he’s just not favoured atm. Pretty silly to see him being named as a potential starter for Oranje by some people…

        • wilson says:

          He featured of the bench vs crystal place and westham. Played full 90 in league cup vs morecambe.

          • primo says:

            I said started a game. Coming off the bench doesn’t qualify as starting, and EPL teams always use second string players in the early rounds of the league cup.

            If you aren’t a first choice at a team like Bournemouth then you absolutely have no business being in Oranje.

      • Sybe Pals says:

        Yea Primo I agree.
        Would love for him to become the great DM which he seems to have the potential and characteristics for.. but he will need to do a lot more to be selected for the NT, for starters he will probably need to earn a spot in the Bournemouth starting lineup and then show some good things there, like he did last season with Watford.

        Looks like only start this season as CB in a cup match against League 2 team, Morecambe FC (?), but has only been used as a sub in the EPL, playing DM once when Arter was injured v West Ham, then a couple mins as LB in a draw with Palace.

        I wonder why he went off on loan before Conte even arrived in Chelsea, but he is signed until the end of the 19/20 season with Chelsea so they must see potential in him yet.

  34. primo says:

    I have tremendous respect for Daley Blind and how he has not only survived this summer under Mourinho but took a starting spot and vice captaincy.

    I wonder how Mourinho will proceed however now that Smalling is back into the picture. He has always preferred bigger, stronger centerbacks that master the defensive and neutralizing aspect of the game, and Blind generally struggles as a centerback when playing against quality opponents. I don’t think Mourinho will have been happy with Daley’s performance during the Manchester derby. Several other players made crucial errors leading up to Daley’s, but De Bruyne made him look like he wasn’t even there.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Utd play Blind against weaker teams, and go for a Bailly-Smalling partnership in the important matches.

    Blind’s lack of pace concerns me for the games against France. If we go 5 at the back there then I think it won’t be a big issue (like the WC) but if he plays left back or CB in a 4-person defensive line I think we will really struggle.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Agree with you again, although I do think that de Bruyne play would probably have happened with any of our defenders in that setup and that scenario.. hopefully he keeps playing, but after that City match I can see Mourinho mixing his lines up.

  35. wilson says:

    Riedewald seems to to be preferred choice for Bosz now at DM ahead of Bazoer. Could be DM in making for NT as well.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Great for Riedewald, but Bazoer was not really a DM for Ajax,by the way

    • primo says:

      Yeah this could be good for NT. Without Nigel we don’t really have any true DM’s that are playing at a high level. Strootman is more of a b2b and functions best if he has another player next to him who is more defensively focused.

      Bazoer is similar to Strootman in that regard. He is a bit too offensively-minded to be the only holding midfielder for Ajax or Oranje in the future.

      The only two players I can think of right now that have the potential to be a true DM for Oranje are Riedewald and Hendrix. I think those two are a lot farther than the other young players that could be eligible. Ake maybe but if he doesn’t play much for Bournemouth this season he will really need to reconsider his career choices going forward.

  36. wilson says:

    Tjaronn Chery is again continuing on from where he left of last season for QPR. Another goal this week taking his tally to 4 goals.I sure this guy is better than Klaassen when it comes to scoring goals.was a consistent performer during Groningen days and again the same story at QPR.This is what I meant about how you don’t have to look far to tell where the ceiling of some players lie.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Cool! Plus he has 3 assists too, great results to start this season. Wasn’t all that consistent last season though he had a great March.
      Probably right about Klaassen though, but Chery probably has to do it in a top league to make a NT call up again, so maybe we don’t get to see them in the same scenario..
      Plus being 28 now I’m not sure about his ‘ceiling’ if you’re referring to his potential, but who knows!

  37. wilson says:

    I also have mix feeling about Janssen. Looking at the two games vs Greece and Sweden which should have been a relatively easy game,though he looked threatening,he never looked like scoring especially with the no of opportunitues he had. If I’m not wrong it was Tiju as usually who said Kane is an over rated striker and Janssen will be better than him. I think it will take a whole lot of bitting for him to dethrone Kane from the starting level.

    Watched Bayern and schalke,I must say Klass Jan huntelaar still has plently left in the tank.its jus you need the right players around him.had a good game for schalke but unfortunately was taken off after suffering from head concussion.

  38. Jan says:

    Watched some of the EPL games and of Dutch games.

    Mourinho got it horribly wrong against City re: tactics. He doesn’t how to use Pogba and the two tall lads (Pogba + Fellaini) were outclassed by the little dribblers/passers. The 4-1-4-1 works well for Pep.

    First half was really weak of ManU. The first goal was a strong of mistakes, from Mikhatarian to Fellaini to Bailly and Blind.

    Second half, Man U went 4-3-3 and City played counter attack but executed it poorly. Overall Blind played a good game and had a peach of a long pass for Rashford which almost became the 2-2.

    Wijnaldum looked spent, indeed. Janmaat was typically strong and full of up and go but isn’t used too well (yet) by his team mates.

    Fer did well to score the goal but committed two fouls on Cahill I think. Should have been yellow carded, hitting through Cahill from behind.

    In Holland, Ajax got the win with Ziyech but not overwhelmingly convincing. Klaassen shows a lot of spirit and fight.

    Feyenoord was super strong but failed to convert chances into goals, but they did win it. Karsdorp and Woudenberg were good, Vilhena was active. Berghuis when on the ball, he’s intelligent, had a superb through pass at one stage.

    PSV scored 4 in 23 minutes and took the foot of the gas. Ramselaar scoring his first for PSV in first 4 minutes. Propper played central midfield and I saw him mis handle a ball for the first time in front of goal. Right back Brenet was excellent!

    • wilson says:

      Jan I think you have hit the point there regarding the midfield. Mourinho using Fellani in that deeper role is really holding Progba. I’m kind of surprised by the non selection of Morgan Scheiderlin.I’m not aware of his status right now but last season it pretty much worked for van Gaal with carrick,schweinstieger and Scheiderlin.Fellani is a attacking midfielder and playing him deep in the midfield will always be a liability defensively.

      As for sonny boy,it will always come down to how well he is protected in front by his midfielders. Last year van Gaal excuated this very well and there was only few games where his weakness was exposed.this is why his stats was good.the moment that midfield in front of him collapses he is done and this is always bound to happen in NT unless we get some versatile holding midfielders.

    • primo says:

      Jan you must be Dutch. We are the only people that can say a player played a good game overall while being directly at fault (at least partially) for both goals conceded in a 1-2 loss at home to another title-contender.

      Coincidentally I think that our lack of emphasis on the bottom line is also why the state of affairs of Dutch football is as dire as it is today.

  39. Jan says:

    Before you start: these stats are from before the Man City game. I know.

    http://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetbal/de-uitzonderlijke-statistieken-van-daley-blind~a35d9e25/

    This translates as: the remarkable stats of Daley Blind.

    On this Dutch page, an English graph with his stats.

    Check it out.

  40. Sybe Pals says:

    Interested to see if we go to 5 at the back again for France too, seeing how bad we were at it during that friendly last March.
    And do we do the same v Belarus to get used to it since we’ve been doing 433 since then?

    Either way, it probably depends on all our players form over the next 4 weeks leading up to it..

    What do you think is best?

  41. wilson says:

    Dutchies in CL and EL

    PSV- Athletico Madrid

    Real Madrid- Sporting Lisbon

    Club Brugge – Leicester City

    Feyenoord vs Man United

    Southampton vs Sparta Prague

    Ajax- Panathinaikos

    AZ – Dundalk

    Fenerbache – Dorya

    Diks and Letscherts in both in the squad for Fiorentina and sassuolo but remains to be seen if they will get a start.

    Also klass Jan huntelaar who suffered a concussion vs Bayern could be doubt for schalke vs Nice.

  42. andrew says:

    OT from the lineups discussion, but a very nice scene from the Den Haag-Feyenoord match.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRjtV63Qqbs

  43. TIJU1234 says:

    Manunited should go for since shaw is injured,.
    Martial—Rashford—Mkthirayan
    ——-Mata——-Pogba——
    ———–Mensah———–
    Rojos—————–Valencia
    ——Baily—Smalling———
    on bench
    Rooney
    Zlatan
    Blind
    Shniderlin
    herrera.
    Lindgraad

  44. wilson says:

    @ primo.

    Go and check the UFEA rankings you will find the pride there.

  45. TIJU1234 says:

    For me our LCB is not slow blind or nonagile Virgil…
    My LCBs are superfast agile tacklers
    1-terence kongolo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUwDPDyNULw
    video 2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKVdDqixh_w
    2-Fosu mensah
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qclblQE-WlI

    • richarde says:

      Mensah impresses me more than Kongolo. His game is more polished. Kongolo seems to have a habit of barreling into the ball carrier–touching the ball but also clattering into the opposing player. I don’t like players who make hard tackles and then get up and claim they touched the ball–it’s how a lot of people get injured.

  46. wilson says:

    Man united lineup to face Feyenoord

    Martial – Ibrahimović

    Rooney – Schneiderlin-Progba-Mkhitaryan

    Shaw- Smalling – Bailey- Valencia

    De Gea

    finally Schneiderlin. no Mata.(Bad Blood) and no Blind.

    • Sybe Pals says:

      Mou says he wont play anyone he wasnt happy with v City, so that rules out the 3 which he called out publicly, and 2 you have in your lineup, Bailly and Mkhi, along with injured Shaw, haha.
      He can still use a completely different 11 than he used v City.

      what are the chances of poor Memphis starting?

  47. Sybe Pals says:

    Poor PSV, losing at home 0-1 to Atletico.
    Maybe unlucky with really poor reffing calls not going their way.. but really, they could have scored 3 easily if they finished their 2 big chances and Guardado didnt miss his pen. Atletico missed some chances too, but even worse finishing. PSV playing 532 actually managed to test Oblack more than Zoet was.
    I liked both Brenet and Willems, Propper as well.
    Nice to see Ramselaar and Bergwijn get a run in the CL.
    Hendrix and L de Jong a bit disappointing for me..

    • andrew says:

      @Sybe,

      Yes, saw the game, as well. Atletico is a tough, tough team to play against. Too bad the De Jong early goal was overruled. Bad decision. But at the same time a bad decision on the penalty (that Guardado missed). Ref and assistants just had a poor game.

      Tough way to open the CL. Need to win in Russia.

      Agree with you on Brenet and Willems. (Brenet looks good every time I see him, on either side. But with Willems and Arias ahead of him for now, his playing time is going to be limited. Hope his time comes.)

      Interesting that you liked Propper’s game. I thought he seemed a little ponderous—just a half or even quarter step slow. (As did De Jong) Just goes to show that people watch the same game and see completely different things. I liked Ramselaar and Bergwijn…PSV speeded up when they came on. Nice to see their athleticism and quickness.

      • TIJU1234 says:

        Ramseelar reminding me of Sneijder and Vaart..
        Brenet is a fighter eventually he will have his time…i still remmber he kicked the A@@@s of Depay when he was at PSV..Brenet put tackle on Depay and that PRi#$$$k depay tried to hold him….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AfHISE9veE

      • Sybe Pals says:

        Yes! Love when people take away different things from a game and can talk about them like normal people 😉
        I like Proppers creativity, although I know what you mean – I got the feeling like he can play some nice football even though I’m sure he was instructed to keep simple and compact with the other mids, hence some uncertainty.

        It’s true, one of the toughest opponents, I don’t envy PSV being grouped with them and Bayern.
        Def need to get full points from Rostov to have a chance to advance.
        Interested to see how they set up, I like Cocu’s versatility,
        Agree about the subs too, excited for those 2!

        • andrew says:

          @Sybe, Don’t get me wrong. I’ve always liked Propper as a player. He is courageous, does not shy away from physical iplay, is not afraid to move forward in tough environments, smart with his runs off the ball, and he does have playmaking skills.

          Last night, though, when he was under in the AM third of the field, especially closer to the penalty box, he was shut, down by the quick challenges of the AM defenders. He seemed a touch slow to make the pass, or control the ball, and then the AM defenders were all over him. AM is tough, tough, tough, in those spots, I get that. But that is the difference between the top of the Eredivisie and the CL group stage.

          But as you say, you saw the same game I did, and liked his play. So maybe I saw it wrong. And to be fair, he was playing with one less player up front, and so he always had one less option.

          Lets hope for the win in Russia.

          • Sybe Pals says:

            TBH I think I sort ignored Propper in the attacking 3rd.. since PSV was using lots of long balls over for LdJ and not really trying so much to link up plays through the middle.. although it was sort of blocked anyway, as you say very tough v AM.
            Did all of PSVs chances come from crosses? I can’t recall one from open play, so I see your point.
            Side note: just noticed Brenet and Willems created the most chances..

            Did you see the PSV pass map?
            Here is a link: https://mobile.twitter.com/11tegen11/status/775802029172293632
            (no comment on where Hendrix ended up, haha)
            And then check out the one for Atletico:
            https://mobile.twitter.com/11tegen11/status/775802390733815808
            Very heavy in the middle!

          • Sybe Pals says:

            correction, Willems and Greizmann created the most in the match, not Brenet.

            Yesterday the same opta site had Brenet-4, Willems-3 for Chances Created… but today it says Willems-4, Brenet-2.
            (just the one for Propper, which iirc was from one of his corners)

  48. TIJU1234 says:

    cannot wait for feynoord vs Manunited….
    its a propper Coach vs Team Assembler..
    As a coach i rate Giovani is better than Jose..But jose is good assembler of players..he can form a team of players who had developed some weher else..
    Martial/Rashford VS kardorp/Kongolo/Bogehtin..
    i would not be surprised if Feynoord pulled a draw or victory..though Manu united has high quality players like Pogba,martial,Rashford etc..

  49. JB says:

    What does it say about United’s Dutch players that Mourinho chooses to start none of them in a Europa League game (a tournament he considers a distraction / nuisance) when playing against a Dutch team? Blind is obviously a somewhat regular starter, but if Depay and Fosu-Mensah cannot play against an opponent with 8/11 Dutch players, who can they play against?

    • TIJU1234 says:

      Darmian was literaly got raped as RB when he played crunch matches..it was fosu mensah got saved MAnu at that time….Depay is really crap so it understandble, why he is warming in bench..Jose is real shi%%^t when comes to develop young players..

  50. TIJU1234 says:

    Feynoord deosnt have a decent winger or else we could have seen darmina is tored up…But still left back kongolo has beaten him couple of times..

  51. JB says:

    Just got up to the conference room to watch the last 15 minutes.. I see Memphis is in now.

    Feyenoord’s uniforms are so sweet! And they just scored!!!!!

  52. JB says:

    Looks like a fantastic atmosphere in Rotterdam! Probably not a game we’ll be watching again years in the future, but still a great result

  53. TIJU1234 says:

    And i am convinced terence kongolo should be our no 1 left back not willeism aor /annholt…Both LBs should be promoted as left wingers for low quality wingers we have now…
    ————Zoet—————
    Kevindiks—Devrij—Mensah—Kongolo
    ———Strootman—Blind———-
    ————–Ramseelar————-
    Janmaat——-janssen———-Williems
    is our future no1 team
    on bench
    ————–krul/Cillessen——–
    Karsdorp—-Bruma—Virgil—-Brenet
    ———-Bazoer—–Hendrix——–
    —————-Propper————-
    Vanrhijn——-Luuk———-Annholt

  54. TIJU1234 says:

    i think no one is happy about Feynoord victory…what happned to all..Even as Manu fan i enjoyed the victory….

  55. Sybe Pals says:

    Resilient Feyenoord beating ManChelsea United 1-0 at home, that was SO GOOD – great vibe even if only to a half empty stadium.
    I bet Jan celebrated too much and still can’t type. 😂
    Kongolo especially great, Karsdorp as well.
    Great finish by Vilhena on probably the best chance of the game besides the one Darmian setup for Martial that he blew.
    El Amhadi great in CDM but a bit clumsy for me, surprised he did not even see a yellow.
    MU couldn’t create much and looked like they really missed Blind, as usual. Memphis couldn’t do anything, TFM left on the bench. So no surprises there.
    But it’s always nice to see Mou lose!

    I see Ajax won away at Panathinaikos.
    I hear Riedewald was impressive in CDM, but generally Bosz has not figured out his midfield problem there yet. And a very stupid red by Ziyech..
    Anyone watch it?

    Anyone watch AZ?

    • TIJU1234 says:

      Feynoord defenders were really physical and pacy..i didnt see Martial or Rashfor troubling kongolo and karsdorp…this basically due to the agilty and athletism of both wingbacks of feynoord…Depay did some nice 1 touch pass but his shooting,freekicks are artociously bad….no accuracy at all..which i think he will never have..

  56. Sybe Pals says:

    When will Promes do this for us?!
    https://mobile.twitter.com/JBcommentator/status/776787565072515072
    Also added another goal and assist..

  57. TIJU1234 says:

    What if that Vilhena chance given to memphis ????that feynoord goal….Memphis will blow it over the bar..

  58. andrew says:

    Feyenoord win was great fun to watch. The atmosphere in De Kuip, and in Eindhoven on Tuesday looked spectacular.

    Question for Jan, and others: Would playing at De Kuip (or Eindhoven for that matter) be better for the NT?

  59. Jan says:

    Good Question Andrew :-). I will respond in new post

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