Frenkie de Jong at crossroads – the interview

He is so happy that 2024 is behind him. 2025 is supposed to be his year, his 10th year as a pro football player.

He mucks abit with his ankle, the second time today he touches it. He realises he only touched it twice today. “I was thinking about it day and night, that ankle. Does it feel right? Has it bulged up a bit? Is there a reaction? Is it fluids? But that is in the past now. I will always have to take it into account when I train or prep but that is ok. Some players have this with their knees, I have it with my ankle.”

He couldn’t do what he loves most for 162 days. “For someone like me, that is eternity. It was the toughest period of my life. I missed some games at Ajax, in 2018, which was when Koeman was about to invite me for Oranje. He was actually at the training when it happened. I tried to block a ball and landed wrong and I tore my ligaments of my other ankle. But that was nothing compared to this one!”

What made it so hard?

“The lack of certainty of where this would go. Not so much the pain. Every day I had a moment of doubt and despair, thinking I would never play again. But I have had so much support from my wife, my family, friends and Ali Dursun, of course.

And becoming a father was huge. I mean, our son is now 1 year old and all cliches are correct. You come home, you’re a bit down and then you see that little fella smiling at you and the sun starts to shine. But then the next day, it started again. The medical experts couldn’t tell me how long it all would take.

And then the Euros were on the horizon. I played two major tournaments: one Covid Euros and the World Cup in Qatar. Now, I was going to play a proper tournament in Germany even, with family and friends on the stands. I was so looking forward to it… It’s still tough to talk about it to be honest.”

Frenkie realises he’s in trouble….

And you even tried to be ready for it?

“Yes, I had to. I didn’t want to end up blaming myself for not even trying.  And yes, I knew better, I ended up getting back on the pitch in October, and the Euros started in May, so yeah.. it was a tad weird for me to attempt it but it goes to show how much I wanted to be part of it.”

You didn’t end up watching many games?

“I did follow Oranje of course, but that was tough. I wanted them to do well but at the same time it hurt to see them play.”

Do you think you could have made more of a difference?

“Yes, I am confident, because when I got injured I was in the form of my life. I felt great, played well, this tournament felt as it could have been mine. And we reached the semis even. You know, I know there are worse things in life, of course, but for me, that was the worst. Mentally tough.”

Is top football more and more a mental game?

“Well it all starts and stops with technique. But you have to be mentally strong as well. People underestimate what it takes to be a starter in Holland and then make a move to a big club abroad.

Matthijs de Ligt and I were lucky, but apart from us and Tijani Reijnders, most players need some time. Justin Kluivert, Mats Wiefer, Tyrell Malacia, Donny van de Beek, Davy Klaassen, so many examples of players having trouble finding the right level.

Before us, it was Sneijder at Real Madrid who immediately succeeded. Not trying to be negative about the other lads, it’s just a very hard thing to do.”

Frenkie’s problems started againt Bilbao, a jump and landing that went wrong.

“That was just bad luck! I was about to land and then Gomez tapped me on the foot and it collapsed when I landed. It was a sprain. Just unfortunate. And a month later, I had that Valverde collission against Madrid, which probably wouldn’t have happened if I was 100%.

Valverde had a bad touch, it was a 50-50 between us, I wanted to block it and at that time I thought “shit, this might go wrong, lets jump up” but than I thought “I can’t let him shoot” so I decided to block it and I was simply doing two things. I jumped up and got a hit on my ankle which was loose and bam! I wasn’t free in my head, which is the result of that previous injury. Talking about a big lesson!”

You missed 32 matches in 2024. How healthy is top football?

“Football is not unhealthy but the number of games makes it so. I think we should play less. The quality of the game is also suffering as a result, I’m sure. You never have time to train and practice. It’s just maintaining and recovery.

You can only develop your playing style in the pre-season and then it’s just relentless. That is the issue. And somehow, the sense of longing to a game disappears a bit. I used to really count the day to Wednesday, when European football is on. Today, every day has a game of interest.

The sports is being milked for all its worth and I think it’s a shame. And some people say “oh don’t moan, you get enough money for it” but it’s nothing to do with money. It’s about the quality of the game. The more you play, the lesser the quality.”

So how do you keep it going?

“The love for the game keeps me going and that makes it harder, mentally at times. I don’t need to charge myself for a match or even a practice session. But it’s the stuff around it. We play often late at night. And after an away game, we fly home at night and I’m usually home at 3.30 am.

Your body is full of adrenaline so sleeping doesn’t work but a couple of hours later, there is a recovery session planned In the Champions League, we usually stay at a hotel after an away game, but then you have a travel day the day after. And yes we don’t need to stand in line and we fly private etc that is all great, but the body still needs to deal with it.”

Is the club a bit more balanced and harmonious now?

“Well, there is always something to be honest. Even when we won the league. I never really worked with the same coach for a long period. I started under Marcel Keizer at Young Ajax and he was my coach in Ajax 1 as well. Great coach by the way. But he got fired and then Ten Hag came.

After one year I went to Barca and had Valverde first, then Setien and then Koeman, Xavi and now Flick. Not much stability, but then again, it’s all part of the game. It’s all very emotional here and quite simple too: only winning counts.”

There were also all these stories about you: Frenkie must go, Frenkie must stay, Frenkie makes too much, etc etc.

“And every day a new story, hahahaha. I have to laugh about it, what else can I do? I have this for years now and you get used to it. All I can do is focus on what I think is the truth. How do I feel? How do I think it’s going? And on that basis, I will decide what I will do.

Of course, the club has a say too, but most of it is just noise. And I do get tired of it, as you can’t block it all out. What I do find really hard to deal with, is the lies. The made up stuff.”

And you even said something about it last year!

“I felt I had to. There were so many stupid stories, so I wanted to make a point and it did calm down a bit afterwards. I hardly give interviews and I don’t have a “thing” with certain journalists. That will help too.”

Is Barcelona as you envisioned it as a kid?

“When I was negotiating with PSG, my agent Ali came and said Barcelona called and they’re serious and I knew this was it. I had to do this. Barca has been my dream club from when I was a kid. I dreamed of playing there.

I visited the stadium when I was on holiday in Spain and soaked it all up. And I still enjoy every single day but like anything in life, nothing is perfect. As they say: you should never meet your heroes?

And honestly, when I signed I didn’t think we’d only win one title, one super copa and one copa del rey. I would have expected twice these trophies and maybe a CL trophy. But you know, Covid came, who knew? That period was devastating for the club financially. There are always unforeseen things.”

They say players can’t say No to either Barca or Real Madrid

“I think it’s true. Those are the ultimate. And even when we were not at our best, Lewandowski wanted to come here, Gundogan had won everything with City, but wanted to play here.

This club is irresistable, the history, the former players, the Camp Nou, the city, I mean… I think this is the biggest club in terms of image and reputation in world football.”

And the life outside of football?

“Yes it’s top, but i’m not here for the tapas or the sun. My priority is football and if for whatever reason I can’t play here or can’t win anything, I will definitely look around.”

Do you fear the swift passing of time?

“Ha, yes a bit. I do like to take care of my body as I do want to play as long as possible. My biggest ambition is to play for a long time. It’s my biggest passion.”

Has it become work, too?

“When I’m on the pitch, it doesn’t feel like work. It’s magic. It’s just amazing to do. I still feel a kid, when I’m playing. But the stuff around it can be a bit tiring. The attention, the obligations, the travel, yes that feels like work sometimes.”

When we needed to quiet him down as a child, we’d just give him a ball and he was quiet….

“Ah my dad told you hahaha. Yes, I was always with a ball. We played everywhere. We used garage doors as goals or we used to jackets to form a goal on a grassy field. I would always hang out at the club.

I played in the morning, then we’d stay to watch the first team and when I got older I took the bike to go to Gorinchem to play on a Cruyff Court, playing other guys.

Football was my life and it’s the most fun thing to do. And still. Well, the birth of my son and my life with my partner Mikky Kiemeney are now top of the list of course, hahahaha.”

Tell me about your skills development?

“Well, playing on the street helped enormously. A big pitch is a bit much for youngsters and it comes down to running. On the street, it’s about technique. I noticed during those years I was better than most, of course.

Everyone has some form of talent but you need to nurture it. I think playing a lot of football and watching a lot of football is key. I learned most of my game by simply playing. Not from coaches or practices, to be honest.

We started training sessions with smaller balls, to give you more challenges. I decided to play the street games with the small ball, so we could all keep on developing our technique. And it worked.”

Do you see good skilled players in the Netherlands still?

“It has become more like FIFA, eh? More robot-like at times. The tactical and physical demands are outrageous. The spaces become smaller and you can use your technique less and less. And this is also because there is less street football.

The Wiel Coerver method is still the best way to learn to control the ball. The dad of one of my friends had a football school based on his methods and the kids who went there really improved a lot.”

What is technique for you?

“Ball control. Being the boss over the ball. Your first touch, your dribble, your pass. The trickery stuff, that is not technique for me. You can do all sorts of things but if you first touch is bad, you lose the ball.”

Who is the perfect technician in your view?

“Leo Messi, hands down. I was a fan as a youngster and I’m priviliged to have played with him. Whatever we did in training, Messi was always the best. Always. Positioning play. Rondo. Finishing. Crossing. During the practice games, whatever we did. I have never seen a gap so wide between one player and the rest of the team.”

Can you learn from him? From a player that good?

“I always watched him. How does he move? Where does he look? What spaces does he explore and why? He is constantly scanning. By the way, I did the same with Neymar when he was here. I would watch every PSG game when he was there, he is so good as well.”

Are you a thinker on the pitch?

“More and more, yes. You know what they say: until you are 25 you are focused on your own game and after that you see more and more of the full picture. I think some players, like Cruyff, Messi and probably a number of other ones, have this from the start, but most players start to think more tactically later on in their career.

Who is where, when I get the ball? But dribbling out of trouble, that is intuition. No thinking, but doing.  I sometimes see myself do things, looking back at games, and I think “why and how did I do this??”.

In what way did coaches impact your playing style?

“Not much. I play now like I always played and you do get more tactically aware and I get more instructions now than when I was 15 years old of course, but the basis is still the same.

And I need to thank Willem II youth coaches for this. They always left me be, they were happy for me to play the way I played. I think that if I would have gone to Ajax when I was 13, it might have been different.

I see youth coaches pushing so many tactical tasks to their players. Only one-touch! Only two touches! I think you need to try and keep the “special” of a player intact. I was always capable of playing my style so I developed it more. I was told at times “Frenkie, pass!!” but I didn’t and just played the way I wanted to play.”

Difficult to coach, he ignored his coaches, was what Wiljan Pluim said about you…

“Hahaha, I read that. And it is true. I was headstrong. Am headstrong. I don’t believe coaches should try and take stuff away from you. I do understand you need to be part of a team and all this, but we don’t need cookie cutter players.”

You influence a lot of young players with your attitude and game. That is cool.

“It’s surreal. I am sometimes in the city, cap on and glasses etc and I see these kids walking around in a Barca shirt with my name and number on it and it feels very odd. But it also makes me very proud that kids apparently enjoy my game. Usually they go for the goal scorers….”

Ok, Frenkie. One six or two sixes….?

“Ha! Depends on the players around you but I prefer two sixes, as I have more freedom in my role. With only 1 six, I have to guard the rest defence by myself and have less options to roam or dribble forward. I don’t like instructions where I am supposed to stay in a particular zone. I have played many positions, including central defender.

I will play where the coach needs me, but at Barca we switch a lot. We sometimes use two sixes, sometimes we have 4 midfielders and I don’t even know what my role is, hahaha. We just make it work as we’re all very polyvalent at Barca. I can’t tell you in one answer, and I am happy to play anywhere as long as I can influence the game. I basically want the ball, hahahaha.”

You said recently you saw a lot of changes in football?

“Well, compared with my first season at Ajax, it’s become so tactical. At Barca, it’s not that bad. Flick usually tells us where to find space, but other teams can be so …. programmed.

They have a style of build up en try to make triangles and when you’re watching you can predict exactly what they’ll do. For the neutral viewer, it can be a bit boring.

It’s like painting by numbers, from A to B to C… I like unpredictable and surprising actions. I think we have that freedom at Barca and it helps that we only have top notch players of course.”

Do you need tactics when you have Messi?

“That is true. You can make all sorts of plans as a coach and play Messi as a right winger but Messi does what Messi does. He will find space. He will go there where he can impact the game and no coach can imagine what he could do next. Even Messi doesn’t know hahahaha. I do miss the playful side of football, the unexpected.”

Are you yourself thinking more about football? Like a coach maybe?

“Yes I do and I do enjoy thinking about tactics, but I also believe there is now so much info and data and so many tv shows and talk shows and podcasts that analysts make it seem as if everything was planned!

You can hear them about wingers moving inside as if that was the tactical solution but I know for a fact that many times, the player just went with his intuition and did something the coach didn’t ask him to do.

Has nothing to do with tactics, but with reading the game and relying on instinct. Coaches and players at times get credit for things that were just an accident, or a coincidence.”

What will 2025 bring?

“I hope a lot of games for Barca and Holland. I have missed so many matches. And I’m at a crossroads now, I have 1,5 year at Barca to go and I want to win trophies. The media make it into a big thing here, but it’s not for me. I just want to do all I can for this club and we’ll see where it brings us.”

Van der Vaart thinks Holland will have a world class team in two years time, taking into account the likes of Milambo, Read, Zirkzee, Van der Ven, Frimpong, Verbruggen, Hartman….

“I read that. And I think we are not there yet. We have a good squad but I don’t think we’re favorites for the World Cup. I know we can win it, but we need a bit of fortune for it. The Spain matches were a good benchmark.

I think we can handle ourselves against the top but against Spain, we didn’t manage to win it. I think finding our football identity is super important. We have had too many discussion in the past 15 years about this. Van Marwijk’s 2010 silver medal came with criticism. Van Gaal going back to 5 at the back in 2014. The changes made later by Frank de Boer.

I think we need to stick to who we are, and develop our talent in that way. Spain is actually a good example. They were not so impressive in the 70s and 80s, despite their club teams doing ever so well. But they decided to go with their version of Total Football and they stuck to it. Good lessons for us.”

What was your perfect game in football?

“I think the Ajax win away at Real Madrid, the 1-4. That was the birth of a great team I think. The match wasn’t perfect, to be honest, and I don’t think I ever played a perfect match, nor will I ever. You always have stuff you can do better. I strife to be as good as I can be. And I still have that fire in me.”

Source: Voetbal International