No delight for Oranje

I hope you didn’t read “No De Ligt for Oranje”… I didn’t mean to startle you. No worries, Mathijs will be playing, but I was referring to the lack of Turkish Delight. We lost. And I needed two days to write this review.

I read all your comments and I have to agree with most of it. I am not as harsh on De Boer though. And that is because I believe a National Team Manager is not there to make the players better, that happens at club level. Nor do I feel he needs to be able to motivate them. Sure, he needs to hit the spot with the players personally. He needs to forge a bond, he needs to know how to reach them, how to inspire them. But he is not responsible for a lack lustre performance in my view. Players need to motivate themselves. It’s Oranje. You’re wearing the jersey, you’re playing for your country. After all the drama and missed tournaments, you, as a player, should be motivated to your gums to do well. I don’t think De Ligt needed it, or Klaassen or Memphis.

Your job, as a team manager, is to pick the best players for the best team. And to assess what system suits them best. And then instruct them.

I can not fault him very much. Sure, picking the squad…. Weghorst vs De Jong. In hindsight, I am not sure if it would have made a huge difference. Weghorst wouldn’t have started. He wouldn’t have taken the penalty. I don’t think it would have mattered.

He picked a logical tactical plan. And one has to assume, based on his pre and post-match interviews, that he instruct them well.

I don’t think we can ignore the fact that the players let him down. As they let us down.

We lost due to two things: amateur hour moves in certain key moments of the game, and a couple of strokes of bad luck.

Lets start with the bad luck. The first shot on goal, by Turkey, was a goal. Ball deflected, Krul wrong-footed… Goal. The second goal was a penalty. I haven’t heard anyone about it, but in my view it was very very harsh. For an English ref to point to the spot. He didn’t tackle him, Malen simply arm wrestled with the guy and he decided to fold. While passing the ball to a team mate! Why give a pen? Harsh!

Ok, I rewatched the footage. Malen’s foot indeed hit the leg of the Turk. I think the penalty can be given. However, if this happens elsewhere on the pitch, a collision, and the player manages to pass the ball on, I don’t think it would have been given as a foul.

Then we had De Ligt’s goal not given. And a handball blatantly missed. That is bad luck.

The amateur hour can be boiled down to the turn-around. We are in possession – corner! – and out of that situation, Turkey is allowed – a couple of times – to break and threaten us. I am positive that De Boer has worked on rest-defence as this is a key topic these days, but the lads failed.

Check the image above. The counter towards 2-0 (the penalty). We have a 2 v 2 situation after a Holland attack. Wijndal is facing the ball. Tete and Frenkie are sprinting back. This cannot happen. And is the result of dreadful lack of leadership on the pitch. De Ligt? Blind? Krul? De Roon? Who is the asshole on the pitch making sure everyone is in his position? Where is the new Van Bommel, the Dutch Roy Keane, or Soren Lerby?

Here is the corner. Not in your view, to the left, are two Oranje players at the corner flag, for the short option. We have 5 in de box. That is 7. And Frenkie on outside the box. With Krul in goal, we have 2 defenders covering our goal. With two Turkey attackers waiting on the edge of the box to turn defence into attack.

Check this situation here, another attack by Oranje. Again we lose the ball. Daley Blind reads the situation and wants to foul the player but can’t grab him. Turkey finds Calhanoglu on the left flank. Tete manages to slow them down but Berghuis has no idea that Yilmax is getting away. His shot will deflect via De Ligt into the goal.

Gini Wijnaldum, the skipper on the night: “Yes, the situation in Turkey’s box, right before this, was their handling of the ball, but we have to be honest. We had 40 seconds or so to deal with it. We made more mistakes after that, more than the ref, and we can’t blame anyone but ourselves.”

The deflection was bad luck. But the lack of organisation and the lack of communication was simply bad execution.

Another problem the team had, was the execution of the team tactics. In the 37th minute, you can see Blind exploding in anger when Wijndal is going AWOL and leaves a huge gap. Oranje tried to put pressure on the opponent, collectively, but they fail again. The plan was to have Malen pressure the central defence, so their right back would be the free man. Then Wijndal was supposed to get straight at him, but the AZ defender is playing too conservative. Something you wouldn’t expect from him.

As a result, the above situation happenes. Blind and De Ligt get into a 2 v 2 situation. Turkey is looking for that by playing the long ball, whenever Oranje wants to press. We lack the body in midfield to challenge for the second ball. Whenever our midfielders want to push up, their star man Yilmaz drops into midfield to give Turkey more options and we were not handling that very well.

Here is the 3-0 in production. Yilmaz drops into midfield. No one is covering him. He gets the ball, Turkey evades the pressure and Yilmaz finds a free man on the left flank. Berghuis worst moments come now. as he first allows the left back to drift away from him, and when the left back gets ball, Berghuis forgets to block the pass-line to Calhanoglu. Don’t give the AC Milan man space and time to shoot on goal!

The third issue is the Oranje right flank. De Boer wanted to have a more defensive right back. De Boer thinks Dumfries isn’t the best option to play with Berghuis: “Steven wants the ball in his feet, and early. So he can go outside, of come inside, or cross early… Dumfries tends to run with the ball and suffocate the winger. With Tete, a more conservative player, the ball will be passed quicker to Berghuis.”

However, the plan fails. On the left wing, we could see some patterns, with Malen, Memphis and Wijndal. On the right side, it was poor. Tete and De Roon both play way to conservative and the forward pass was so late, that Berghuis was blocked in, by defenders and by the touch line behind him. As a result, the best way forward was by crossing the ball into the box, but both Memphis and Malen aren’t aerial super stars, so that simply didn’t pay off.

When De Boer brings Klaassen, Dumfries and De Jong, he brings opportunism. With Dumfries and Wijndal both playing high, and with the aerial threat of the Jong, Oranje starts to press. Memphis gets more joy on the left flank and ends up with two assists to his name, while both subs – Klaassen and De Jong – score. The Davy Klaassen goal was a beauty, of course. It seems a final offensive might have brought us the draw, or even the win, but an all or nothing approach resulted in a foul in our defensive third… 4-2. The missed penalty by Memphis was a fitting final chord for this match.

Apart from some referee mistakes, it seems Oranje mainly lost due to a tactics that wasn’t executed properly, with simply not enough dynamics in the attacking moves on the right to break down the Turkish defensive wall. And at the back, we gave way too much away. When the key players (Memphis, Wijnaldum. Blind) don’t show up on the night on top, all this results in a painful and unnecessary defeat!

Frank de Boer: “This was a a painful blow. Totally unnecessary. And it’s unbelievable, they had 5 shots on goal and score 4. I have never seen them so effective. Everything went against us. But we have 9 more games to go. We lost, we dropped points, but it’s not devastating. We shouldn’t be in tears or anything. We didn’t do well, we need to turn it around and we have all the options to turn it around. But we were sloppy in our passing, didn’t create enough. We had to change flanks quicker and more often. Turkey parked the bus and we were sluggish. It seemed as if we were not at the races, but that is optical. We worked hard but we didn’t work smart. We ended up in situations which we should have avoided. We claim a hand ball and 20 seconds later they score. We give a away a penalty while there were many players still behind the ball. And the second half just started or they had a third in our net. Unbelievable. But even at 3-0, I had the conviction we would turn it around. We scored two good goals but sadly we gave it all away in the end. I am not looking for excuses, don’t get me wrong, but a WC qualification game should have VAR. We would have had Mathijs’ goal and that hand ball. The goal line technology does make the game more just.”

As Cillesen ended the warm up with a knee problem, De Boer called Marco Bizot of AZ to join Oranje as third goalie.

De Boer was quized about his tactics. Why start with that eleven? “We played in this formated well in other games, created chances and converted them. Take Poland away, in the Nations League. We conceded early but we turned it around after creating many opportunities. We simply didn’t have it today, and every shot they took ended up in goal.”

Skipper Wijnaldum was harsh in self reflection: “We were weak. You need to be ruthless in certain situations and in the turn around in particular, we were too soft.” Frenkie de Jong: “This was totally unnecessary. With all due respect to Turkey, they really are a good side, but we shouldn’t concede 4 goals. We weren’t dominant enough.”

Daley Blind felt the team did fight. “We did play at a good intensity level, this game was decided on details. Moments. If you get two fatal counters after a corner or dead ball situation for you, well…. you clearly fail in your organisation. Their effectiveness was killing. Two shots, a penalty and a free kick. This is football at top level and details decide games. We were not mature enough.”

Is the playing style, the tactical plan, maybe too predictable?

Frenkie: “No, I don’t think so. We mainly made individual mistakes, decision making mistakes. And we weren’t solid on the ball. We wanted to find the forward pass and we did so too quick at times.” Blind: “Malen got two good chances and on the left we were able to play in between the lines. But we lacked precision in our passing. The second to last pass was usually not good enough.” Frenkie: “It sucks that we lost our first game, always important, but we can still come out on top. We now need to move up a gear.”

You need to be ready for the next game this coming Saturday. Is it all going too fast?

Daley Blind: “Well, it’s nice to be able to take revenge on Saturday and set things straight, but we hardly had any time to prep for Turkey and now we won’t have that much time for Latvia. We haven’t seen each other for a while and you really need more than one training session. But, it’s no excuse. We know each other, we should have done better. No debate.”

The last time Oranje left Turkey empty handed was in 2015. The National Team coach then was Danny Blind. He had just lost and told the press he had the feeling he had bad luck hanging on his ass. When Frank de Boer is confronted with that quote, he can muster a smile: “I don’t have that feeling, I trust we can correct this misstep in the coming matches.”

I think they will bounce back and get 6 points vs Gibraltar and Latvia. Yes, I can predict some really surprising results hahaha. But lets face it, if we love vs Latvia and Gibraltar, I will immediately give up this blog and become a fan of Germany. And Belgium.

I think we will see the following eleven:


Dumfries – De Ligt – Blind – Wijndal

Klaassen Frenkie Wijnaldum

Stengs Luuk de Jong Memphis

And we will beat them 4-0. Klaassen the first (of course), Luuk will score 2 and Memphis will score 1.

Your view?

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  1. This is a good analysis, Jan, and I have to say that your perspective actually makes me feel a little better about what we saw the other day.

    I didn’t like all of the player selections for the larger roster (Babel and Luuk in particular), but I thought the starting lineup made some sense, given what was available (no de Vrij, no Ake, no Virgil). I certainly expected more accuracy, focus, and intensity out of this lineup, which the players seem to acknowledge was just in them. I’ve probably watched too many sports movies, so despite what you’ve said, I do expect some of this to come from the coach as part of getting the team prepared for a match. FdB certainly isn’t the first Dutch Manager` not to do this, so maybe it’s just a cultural thing. To me, as a player, I would come out with something huge to prove in every game, friendly, qualifier, or whatever, after my team missed out on the last two tournaments, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with a lot of these players.

    Your explanation of the crossing into the box is also helpful. That was insanely irritating given that we don’t play with a true central striker generally. And why would no one ever just carry the ball into the defensive area? Turkey was plays very physical— the chance to draw a foul or a PK is certainly there. Instead we pass back and pass laterally around their bus until we eventually make a weak cross or just give the ball away.

    Looking forward to some better luck and more passion in the coming games.

    1. The few positives out of this loss are that now De Boer can make a better assessment as to who needs to be in that Euro final squad. Tete might have lost his spot while Kardorp might get his chance hopefully. Now, considering how De Boer is and how he does things he’ll probably select Dumfries/Hateboer if healthy just to be even more annoying than he already is. The other positive that arouse from this loss is that if De Boer somehow fails to beat Latvia (seriously doubt that would happen) then hopefully he gets sacked along with every moron who appointed him. That would be the best solution as Bosz is available which means our team will have a better chance at the upcoming Euro even though he will not have much time to prepare for it.

      Let’s be realistic though, we will beat Latvia and Gilbratar even with De Boer as our coach because both teams are extremely poor and possess no threat whatsoever. This all means that De Boer will most likely lead the team in the first major tournament for us in 7 years!! Again I do not expect much with him as our coach, games against Poland and Turkey prove that the way he approached those games and player selection wasn’t the best. He was lucky enough against the Polish when we were awarded a penalty because I didn’t think we would have scored otherwise. Since Ukraine and Austria are teams of the same caliber as Poland and Turkey, Frank and his staff need to come up with something else because what he is doing now clearly isn’t working. I think switching to a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 might be just that. Non of our wingers are good enough in order for us to play with 3 at the top and also our wing backs have been very questionable as of right now as to who needs to start simply because they are so inconsistent and you don’t really know if you can trust them against a good side. As I have said before, on this generation of Dutch players we have been blessed with so many good center backs which unfortunately wasn’t the case in 2010. Playing with 3 top CB’s like De Ligt, De Vrij and hoping Ake is back to 100% (assuming Van Dijk misses the Euro) will solidify our defense and make it hard for any team beating us considering our midfield is good enough with De Jong, Wijnaldum and Klaassen! We saw this formation work very well against the Italians which basically shows the direction we should go moving forward. If De Boer plays this I really think we can make a deep run in the competition but if he is persistent to the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 the team will crush out very early as Ukraine is no joke and Austria has enough players to cause an upset.

  2. @ Jan

    Analysis aside,I just dont agree with what ever you have written. From the selection to the starting 11 was merely based on his expectation that it would work. This is what you call medocrity rather than maintaining that continuity which you have established from previous games.You look at tete’s situation. His last appearence for NT was way back under koeman where he just lasted few seconds before suffering from that hamstring injury. Cant remember which game that was. You decide Dumfries isn’t the best option to play with Berghuis as Tete is more conservative and the ball will be passed quicker to Berghuis. What crap is this man and plus it never worked. First of all Berghuis in competitive games cant go outside of his marker for shit and secondly at Feyenoord Lutsharel Geertruida who plays behind him is also a offensive fullback like dumfries and it has never been the case as what you have mentioned. Being said this Tete for me was ok. Its Berghuis who doesnt fit in the equation, especially in competitive games for NT.

    To those who may have not known, that left winger for Turkey Kenan Karaman plays for Dusseldorfer Fortuna in bundasliga 2 and LB Cengiz umut Meraş who had the assist on Hakan Calhanolgu’s goal plays for le Havre in Ligue 2. If you put this into pespective you can see the difference in the mindset of both coaches in terms of selection. This again rises the question of why not El Ghazi and Danjuma who are more technical players and in form. This is where NT simply having been hitting the head on the brick wall expecting it to break.

    You look at Daley Blinds comment.he is giving a pathetic excuse and then saying its not a excuse. This will never work. Once again you back to some of the competitive NT has played and dissect their performance, individual performance, the conclusion is the same.

    Alot needs to be ironed out with open and out of the box mindset.

    FDB has dodged the bullet given the next game is vs minors lativa and Gibraltar. Should it had being vs Norway. His chapter would have had come to a end. They would have lost to Norway as well.

    Turkey will the group leaders in this group while the the battle for second spot will be up for grabs between norway and NT.

    1. Wow Wilson, not sure what you ate… Calm down :-).

      The explanation of Tete v Dumfries was not my analysis. This was literally the words of Frank de Boer, given before the match. Explaining why he didn’t want to use Dumfries. I’m not saying I agree. I wanted Karsdorp. But I posted what the coach wanted to do.Don’t shoot the messenger.

      The comment about the Turkish coach and the players from the 2nd Bundesliga don’t mean much to me. I don’t get what you are trying to say.

      For De Boer, it was about consistency, and the fact he only had 1 day to prep. No sane coach would bring in Danjuma and El Ghazi, new names, with one day to prep. Insanity.

      1. You keep bringing in the argument of lack of pre time and others everytime but fact is all the teams go through the
        Same phase as NT players. Why complain. This is where continuity of playing from previous games should kick in. If the players themselves are up to par then why make excuses.

        Was Turkey a better team? Yes

        Were turkey technically better than NT players? Yes

        The comment about the Turkish coach and the players from the 2nd Bundesliga don’t mean much to me. I don’t get what you are trying to say”

        Its not about where you play but how you play.

        1. I agree with you Wilson. I just wonder whose fault is it when there is no option to change the line up? FDB has half a year to bring on new players and he did not. His preference is to call Babel and Strootman. Yes, he did prefer consistency because he consistently suck at every level that he coach.

          Does he has shame? Does he feel humiliated after the loss? I doubt it because if he does, he will not be in this position anyway. I apply to be CEO at this big corporation, my resume is here, I got fired at all organizations I was at before and lose a lot of moneys. See a person that feel shame will not apply to be national coach with his resume. He prepared to get roasted and he did. The sad thing is he drag this team down with him.

        2. I don’t agree. It’s not unusual for national teams to stutter in their first qualification games after a long pause. France? Drew. Spain? Drew. Remember Germany and France after their WC campaigns in 2018?

          Was Turkey better? No.

          In the first 15 minutes, Oranje played them off the pitch. They converted 5 changes into 4 goals, that they did ever so well. But it doesn’t mean they’re a better team.

          The 2nd Bundesliga comments is a true comment but I don’t see the relevance? Are you saying Frank de Boer should recruit from the 2nd division in Holland??

  3. Great analysis Jan, great comments by my fellow bloggers. But I think you all may have spent too much of your precious time by trying to either justify this humiliation (4 goals by Turkey in an empty stadium is a HUMILIATION that only a cross eyed loser like FDB can’t see) or trying to find fixes for our huge holes. Just the fact that this perennial loser gives starting spots to players like Berghuis, Krul, Tete , calls up fossils like Babbel, deJong, Strootman and fully ignoring players like Karsdorp, Weghorst etc. make for a coward who has no identity other than a boring mediocre MLS caliber coach. There is a saying “if you’re going to fail, fail fast”. We will fail with FDB for sure but better fail fast and so as Tomy14 above says FBD and all the morons who picked him get sacked and still have a chance to make some noise or at least give the best defender in dutch history VD a chance to play in a WC.
    so here’s hoping that those Latvian lions will help us get rid of FDB tomorrow.
    P.S. Biggest enemy of NT is KNVB. Same KNVB that when NT had a group of phenomenal talents riding high on the 88 success goes on and picks Beenhakker instead of Cruijff. Per Van Basten book they went and asked players which coach they wanted and after almost everyone asked for Cruijff they went and picked another meh coach like Beenhakker and stabbing VB, Gullit and Rijkaard in the back. Go figure.

    1. This is an astute comment, Balkan. You are right. I can only speak for myself, but yes, I am keen to look at:

      how did we lose and what do we need to do to fix it.

      This has to do with the following:

      I am an Oranje fan and as such support the players and the coach that was put in that position.

      I think and am convinced that the negative energy – even after an abysmal result – will not help in any way.

      Booing players never made them better. You do make the opponent stronger this way.

      In Holland, I am certain that the punters and analysts (Van der Gijp, Derksen, Perez, Van Hooijdonk, Van der Vaart, Van Hanegem, Gullit, Kieft) will be ready to ridicule the players and fillet them.

      That doesn’t help. I mean sure, it’s fun tv and it is good for the egos of the ex-stars (they were better, see… we did qualify, they can’t…).

      But I tend to feel part of the group and like to think they don’t want to lose on purpose.

      So to take your words: I am sure Frank de Boer will see this s a humiliation. He used to play in Turkey. He will have been gutted. But he won’t share that with us, of course.

      The four goals were partly flukes. I explained: the first one was a lucky, the second one came from a situation that shouldn’t have happened. Third shot on goal, I think he shoots 10 times from that distance and only scores once. The fourth one, well… we were chasing the game and too trigger happy to regain possession. I mean, conceding these four games is possible.

      Spain lost 1-5 against Holland in Brazil and didn’t sack their coach.

      One needs to have some confidence and loyalty.

      I think analysing how to fix things is important. You need to look ahead.

      I also don’t think any other coach would have done it much differently.

      I don’t believe a coach should bring new players in when you have 2 days to prep for a big game. I really support Frank in this: that would be bad management. You don’t know what you do when you get players in who may have a history with some of the others. You are a manager and this is what management is: limit risk and manage the human resources (players).

      Don’t forget, we were critical on Dumfries in previous matches. Don’t forget, we begged Frank to play Berghuis in the past matches.

      Memphis has been our guiding light for years now, it’s only natural that Frank started how he started. Even the De Roon decision I can understand (even if I would have played Klaassen).

      The players let the coach down, not the other way around.

      1. I agree with you wholeheartedly Jan. My worry though is whether this puts us always in this weird place, where good intentions and hoping for the best leads to a subpar coach and no questioning of the decision making that took us here. I think it’s clear that FDB is not the greatest coach alive. I assume he and the players want to win as much as anyone and do a great job. However, I also think if we had a great coach, this team would have no questioning whatsoever and would be in good shape. I feel that’s my biggest issue here. The KNVB makes a decision and we, as supporters, need to support and rally behind the team, whatever the situation. But if a dumb decision is made we are stuck paying for it for years (no world cup, for example)

    2. Well said Balkan! We get roasted by 35 years old playing in League One. I don’t see much point into analyzing individual play and mistake. This whole thing is so wrong that you need to fix the fundamental issue, the coach and the organization.

  4. I would say everyone’s wish here is almost unanimous and consistent, FDB has to go, and get rid of the old timers who have overstayed. He has underachieved. Too much of a talking and analysis with absolutely no results. Almost like what I encountered at workplace. 😅
    It’s no point to continue flogging a dead horse I call it. Got to change.

  5. FDB HAD ENOUGH freedom to call certain players and deciding in playing 11..he should not have left koopmeiners and bazoer…both are in red hot form…
    UNLUCK IS PART OF GAME U MUST over come it…
    1—Where was urgency at first half???
    2- where was the creativity at first half??
    3-why Malen played on left???
    4–why the hell he played de roon???.
    5-why cannot he bench gini??
    6- why he is not stoping depay from taking all freekicks??.
    i can understand him playing Tete,winjdAL,BERGHUIS ETC BUT why De roon??
    i think winjdal was susceptible compared to tete..Tete was good defensivly at least..Dumbfry is the worst LB compared to Tete..Tete looked better than shitboer..
    Berghuis is given less freedom and team is more memphis oriented…thats a concern..
    i think playing Gravenberch for Gini and klassen for De roon with MAlen as center striker would have changed our game…
    if you tete is shit,then you replacing tete with dumbfry is like one shit replacing other shit..tahst not going to help us….
    only a moron coach will loose to turkey team (no consisnatcy) with champion ship players under locked stadium…. with stars like Mrmphis ,deligt,frenkie…
    Pathetic by cowardious conservative pragmatic looserr coach…
    2 penalty VS italy at EC2000 says it all..

  6. There is one thing you spot on with this article. That is there is no a**hole in this team, no real winner. I do not understand while world class players in De Jong, De Ligt VVD and Wijnaldum let a this clown run the team. Do they want to win? They should have said way earlier that this appointment suck and this KNVB suck.

  7. Frank De Boer needs to go home ASAP, before the regrets are way bigger , in July 2022 after the World Cup we will be here commenting how the knvb wasted two years with Frank de de Boer who got eleimanted in the second round of the euros and never made it to World Cup because Norway and Turkey came first and second in the group!!! Take a screen shot of this comment guys andi will post it same comment in July 2022

  8. Line up against Latvia just released,

    Bergius starting again , de boer is rewarding him for his inspiring performance against turkey 😆!!! Krul too…. and how about insisting on the combination of frenkie and winjaldum? He doesn’t dare to bench wijnaldum and start grav?

  9. And after all it is Malen’s fault that loss to turkey 😆😆😆, that’s why Frank De Boer benched him today!!!!! Not because Malen was played out of position against turkey 🙄🙄🙄!!! Man how incompetent can Frank de Boer be ??? That’s too much ….

    1. Man… we are all getting aged..we want Orange to be crowned…some friends here they ridicule me here (my native place)as we choke at crunch times….
      its sad to see clowns like FDB,Danny Blind,Bert we take biased selections and we kill ourselves..
      FDB is a jerk to call Malen as problem…
      Our problem was winjdal,Krul, De roon and partially Gini… with Malen on left he made another blunder….

  10. Now the national anthem is playing and I see luuk de jong and I wonder how weghorst one of the hottest strikers in Europe feels when he sees a bench warmer in Sevilla stole his place in the team…

    1. AZ, 🙂 🙂
      I am surprised they didn’t take a knee. After all it is not about winning and finishing first, it’s about being nice and feeling good. That’s what they teach to elementary schools nowadays. And Qatar would lose a boatload a $ when we are eliminated in a protest.

  11. Great result , great win for the Netherlands , 2-0 against might Latvia , great job frank de boer ❤️!!! Not any team can beat a Latvia team full of stars all over Europe 😘

  12. In a rare praise for KNVB, the best thing about this game was the presence of fans in the stands. For 90 mins it felt almost like normal life from the very distant past.

  13. And frank de Boer proved to everyone why he didn’t pick weghorst, he doesn’t need him look how we beat Latvia 6-0 with so many clinical finishers in the team, why call weghorst to the team when you have all these top goal scorers in the team 🤪

  14. I feel we are going to be screwed on goal difference. We’ll end up in the same situation as Sweden, need to beat Turkey 9-0 to qualify, something like that. I’m pretty sad.

    1. @ignacio

      Let NED first to get the same amount of points as Turkey and perhaps Norway then we can worry about goal difference. That was horrendous display.

  15. Turkey 3-0 Norway….
    Turkey had 3 shots on goal and ,3/3 went in…
    Can we beat Norway under FDB???or we will be blaming referee???
    Turkey won 2 vital game against top teams in group and that clearly makes us on backfoot…
    i cannot see us beating Norway with Dumbfry,winjdal,Gini,De roon….Sorry guys bye bye qatar….

    1. Never even bothered to watch. Just woke up and came straight here.

      The lativa and Gibraltar games should have been used to test new players but that window is closing now with no development in the team and looks like this will be the same team for euros. Otherwise one or two friendlys before euros to test new players simply is not good enough with respect to the confidence level that is needed to yield the best out of them.

  16. I watched both games today, the senior team and the u21. I frankly do not know which one is worse. Goodness me, both teams lack any pace, imagination, and creativity. They are so predictable and deliberate in everything they do. It is so painful to watch. There is not one player from the u21 who belongs in the senior team, not one. I hope some of you watch your favorite player Bakker play today. He is the worst but thankfully for him he is in very good company!! Teze, Botman, Harraoui, Koopmeiners, De Wit, Kluivert, Kadioglu and even Gakpo are so average. It is amazing that some of you want any of these players to play in the Euro. The coaches are bad, the players are bad and the KNVB is clueless. Very promising indeed!!

    1. Star started France lost to Denmark, England lost to Swizz tells alot about the competition level there. The top 2 will qualifer for quarters and JO has a easier fixture vs Hungary than Germany and Romania who are both on 4 points. They have a good chance of qualifying.

      I never watched the game so cant say much about individual performances of players but van der looi as coach is not a master tatician either.

  17. Frank De Boer after the match tonight said he is satisfied with the win and the way the team played!! Pathetic how detached from reality that man is!!!

    ! I watched Czech Republic vs Belgium, two amazing teams the Czechs surprised me with how good they were tonight , oranje doesn’t belong with these teams man, thanks to frank de Boer!!! We used to complain about not having a lethal striker last year and suddenly god sent us weghorst but frank de Boer refused that gift because he loves Babel and Luuk de jong 😆

    1. I am not surprised by FDB’s words. I don’t think he is detached from reality, he knows very well that he sucks but he hang in there for the money. Which team will choose him as coach now? He already went as low as MLS and got fired.

      I watched the entire match. The football was so bad. I feel like this team found their competitive level. They need to compete and fight hard to win against teams like Latvia. If they went to go against team that has higher standard then they start suffering.

      Here is FDB’s achievement so far after 7 games:
      1/ 0 wins against first class team.
      2/ Win with small margin against Poland and lose against Turkey (a game that could turn into disaster)
      3/ One draw and two wins against small football nations.

      Does that match with his coach career record? We are heading into Euros with brilliant shape now thanks to FDB.

  18. Wow, there is a lot of negativity guys, seriously. Do you all live your lives like this? It’s important to keep seeing the positives… Law of Attraction etc.

    You could all apply for a Dutch passport (if you haven’t got one already), as there’s a lot of vinegar pissers in Holland as well.

    Goodness me.

    The team was constantly probing, constantly on the attack, we saw some awesome moves: Memphis, Berghuis, Donny van de Beek, Wijndal and we created 35 opportunities!!! We hit the bar twice!! They cleared the line I don’t know how many times…

    Yes we only scored 2. Yes we should have scored 6. But come on man! Be a supporter and not a criticaster.

    Goodness me. Expect a well-balanced analysis soon.

    1. if I remember correctly you were in the same boat as in 2016 when Danny Blind was the coach. you were defending him the same way as you are doing. when they bombed out of the euros you wrote about elements Add it all together – wrong coach, wrong tactics, individual mistakes, key players missing, no team dynamics – and even the best football nation can lose against Iceland and Turkey.isnt this whats happening now. what has improved?????

      did some digging this was you back then

      there is difference between constructive criticism and negativity. we all love this blog and thats why we spend so much time here. Im sure everybody here wants to see NT win on the biggest stage. the fact of the matter is, that will never happen when you see what is unfolding with respect to the current management and the team.

      nobody is stupid dumb here to see what is happening especially when the coach himself has one of worst resume in the football. this is a fact and not negativity. what do you expect him to bring to the team. history itself is repeating here and you are trying to turn a blind eye on it.

      1. My dear Wilson, I think you meant to say “we were in the same boat”? Aren’t we all Oranje fans. We rally behind our coaches. We respect ex players. We give them the benefit of the doubt.

        The comparison with 2016 is ludicrous. The biggest team any player from that squad played for was AS Roma I think (Strootman). Now we have players who are at Man United, Liverpool. Barcelona, Juve… Different story. Different players. Different opponents. Different stage of the process.

        Louis van Gaal did a shit job in 2000. It happens. It’s not good and we need to analyse it but you seem to revel in the drama.

        They played 90 minutes with some good football and you didn’t even mention one positive thing?

        You didn’t mention Berghuis super goal? Or Memphis dribble through the middle and shot on target? Or Wijndal superb defensive tackle?

        Are you a fan? Or are you merely keen on constantly being negative about every coach and player (except Dirk Kuyt)?

        The only creative solution I hear from you (and others) is “Sack the coach”.

        1. Vangaal lost to potugal and ireland bothe were not current turkey..both teams were excellent those times..Portugal as@@whopoped england and germany at Euro2000.almost beat france…Ireland was tougher than italy with Roy keane…i excuse LVg beacuse of strength of opponent….But thats not case with Blind,Hiddink at Ec2016 and WC2018…
          This turkey team is not great they will be tored apart when they face portugal,italy, England ,belgium etc..
          its really heart breaking to see orange play sluggish,non creative with some players should not be wearing dutch jersey..(Not only result)..i would not be this naive if we loose to portugal, france etc…

          1. Where is jetro williams????who has pinpoint accuracy crosses?? when u play Luuk…where is sinkgraven who has excellent cross???
            where is rick karsdorp who is miles ahead of dumbfry,shitboer and Tete(i am somewat okay with Tete)????
            where is Bazoer….??
            why the fauck Gini and memphis angry at FDB???what was they were doing against turkey when we needed goal???
            FDB is a poor manger by al means…

        2. Yes Jan, that is correct. The team as it stands is not that great to begin with except for the few players we all know who are top class. No need to mention them by name as we all know who they are. But this is why the team in order to do well needs a coach capable of bringing something new, not the same old FDB type of play which is as I said so many times archaic and totally outdated. This slow, deliberate, stubborn way of playing by controlling possession but a possession that is not dangerous and useless, has to go. This is why so many of us are so animated. It is simply ATROCIOUS and BORING. How could anyone deny this? Watch Ajax at the moment and tell me you do not enjoy watch their games. Compare to the national team and you can clearly appreciate the difference. Bosz would bring new ideas, new concepts and play attacking football. I am not saying he is the best coach on earth, but he is the best coach available to coach the national team. With DFB, unfortunately we all know too well what he is about. Where ever he has gone, the same issues have arisen. Predictable patterns of play, slow as could be, back and lateral passing, reliance on individual brilliance and that’s about it. He should learn from San Marco who confessed that he did not have what is required to be a top coach. I only wished FDB heard him and realized that he does not have it either. Better now than in 1 year.

    2. I mean everyone here is supporter of the team. Many people want to sack the coach is because they support the team.

      I am actually happy. I am angry that the team is managed this way but overall, I am happy with my life. I also feel that it is ok if someone feel angry. I don’t know about their life. I think the blog is where people have different opinion. Usually it is divided. But this time, you almost hear the same thing from everyone.

    1. It’s hard to say but based on squad with a fit Memphis, Frenkie, Gini, Daley, maybe add Karsdorp and a fit De Vrij a place in the semis should be considered a really amazing result. I don’t see us win this.

      Different story next year’s World Cup, provided Virgil is back.

    1. should recall vincent janssen as well and see how well he is doing and again this lativa and Gibraltar game should have been perfect for this. If Luuk de Jong can start sitting on the bench at Sevilla then playing in Mexico should be an exception.

  19. Guys, let’s rally behind the team. I’ve been thinking about this and feel a bit like Jan. So much negative sentiment will not help. I do understand and think we could have a better coach, better tactics, etc. But it is what it is and we need to live with it. Let’s hope the best comes out in the Euros and the upcoming games. It wasn’t disastrous against Latvia today. With that attitude we can score 8 against Gibraltar and then crush Turkey come September, to regain the group lead. Cheer up. Hup Holland.

  20. Honestly, I feel numb and quite indifferent. My philosophy is that if Oranje go to Euros or Worlds, they have to fight for the place in pedestal. Current Oranje will not be able to do that even if they miraculously qualify for Qatar. They are more concerned of human right violation in Qatar though. I clearly feel that Oranje need a new playing idea and FDB and old generation of Dutch coaches can not give that. KNBV is the organization that is accountable for new vision. However, we all know that KNVB is the organization that is composed of conservative and insecure bureaucrats. We need more progressive minds in KNVB perhaps then something will change. Otherwise, nothing will change.

  21. I really think this is an awful lot of gloom and doom. Turkey had a few lucky breaks that turned the game and we had about as much bad luck. Thinking back on past Oranje teams, another positive is that the team didn’t become complacent when they went down, they continued to work hard on and off the ball. Whether they worked smart is another issue.

    As for Latvia, we won.
    It really was at least a 5-0 effort of not for the woodwork and a box packed with an entire 11 for almost the whole game.

    There also is something to be said for the odd times that we’re going through, the time to prepare, etc. many nations have struggled this week— after tying Greece, the Spanish could have lost to GEORGIA today and only saved themselves from a draw in the 92nd minute. From what I saw, they were very lucky to come away with three points. It’s not just the Dutch, and we’re not even in the worst spot of the higher-expectation nations.

    This team and the tactics definitely need some work, for sure. But we have a lot of talent and a lot of potential— in both of the next two tournaments. Virgil by himself changes an entire team— all you have to do is look at Liverpool to see that. When he is back, it changes the entire pitch.

    Strategically, I think figuring out how to arrange things around a non-traditional forward like Memphis is one of the biggest puzzles to be worked out. It’s honestly surprising that the managers (club or country) haven’t made more headway on this puzzle since he’s been around for a long time at this point and he’s clearly a very valuable player in any side.

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