This is going against my nature. I don’t think I ever posted something like this. I don’t think I needed to. I thought Van Basten did a good job. Rijkaard could have stayed on. I was never an Advocaat fan, but once these guys lead the team you want to support them. After the WC2010 I was happy Bert was taking them to the Euros.
I didn’t support him coming back in the first place. He decided to abandon us before the Euros2020 by leaving us in the hands of Frank de Boer and the shere fact he wanted an exit in his agreement was a red flag for me.
I think he’s good to get a team in shape and find a way to build a team around his football ideas. In that category of coaches, he is a mediocre, but decent coach. Allardyce. Redknapp. Advocaat. That level. No innovation, no creativity, no courage and adventure. They’re not Cruyff, Guardiola, Alonso, Slot or De Zerbi.
We need a coach who can 1) take the younger generation ( Frenkie, Schouten, Gakpo, Xavi, Lang, Hartman, Van der Ven, Zirkzee) and 2) mould them in to a befitting football approach.
Koeman demonstrated that he isn’t the man to do this. During the Euros, it’s a constant tweaking and changing and adapting to the opponent. Making weird choices ( Dumfries + Frimpong? Taking Malen off against England for Wout? Not using Frimpong in latter games? Keeping his trust in Memphis? (gambling on the wrong horse, as we say)).
When you have to tweak and change mid game, yes you could say “wow what a flexible coach”, but I like to say “he got it wrong from the start and needs to fix it”.
It is fair to say that with Romania and Turkey as the knock out opponents, we simply had to reach the semis. And the first real test was too hard, despite scoring first.
The KNVB always has these “demands”: attractive, adventurous and attacking. Well, I didn’t see this under Advocaat, Van Gaal, De Boer or Koeman, to be completely honest.
We score the 1-0 versus England in the 7th minute and then we drop deep and give the control away. Why??
I personally belief a coach like Alex Pastoor would be perfect. Or Marcel Keizer. Or Mitchell van der Gaag. Or Mark van Bommel. With Bert as assistant?
Enough of dipping in the bag of oldies but goldies.
The talent pool is outrageous. We need a strong willed, courageous coach who can work and instill a system that will make us unstoppable. If Spain can do it, why not us? Spain copied us in the first place.
Goal keepers: Verbruggen, Olij, Bijlow, Flekken, Owuso Adoro, Bizot
Left backs: Hartman, Maatsen, Ake, Van der Ven, Malacia, Bakker
Right backs: Frimpong, Dumfries, Geertruida, Teze, Rensch, Hoever, Karsdorp
Centre backs: Van der Ven, Ake, De Ligt, Geertruida, J Timber, Botman, Schuurs, Beelen, Hato, Teze, Sam Beukema, Van Hecke, Sepp van de Berg, Struijk,
Midfield: Frenkie de Jong, Koopmeiners, Schouten, Reijnders, Q Timber, Wieffer, Taylor, Rosario, Gravenberch, Proper, Matusima, Ekkelenkamp, Eijting, Donny van de Beek,
Attack: Xavi, Gakpo, Malen, Bergwijn, Lang, Zirkzee, Brobbey, Dallinga, Kluivert, Chong, Piroe, Danjuma, Stengs
Surely, a good coach can make this into a winning and entertaining team?
Jan, if you think I am Ronald Koeman, it is very bold of you to publish take down columns like this. But I understand in football, as in life and as in business, everything can be talked about and discussed.
So, let’s talk first about players. As a famous person once said, “You can have Guardiola as a manager, you can have Koeman as a manager, you can have anybody as a manager, but the players inside the white lines win the game.”
I’ve been told that managing a national team is like coaching an all-star game. The players are not yours. You merely borrow them for a brief time with a promise not to get them injured. You cannot buy, sell or trade them. You cannot spend months with them collectively developing team tactics like their club managers do. You must work with what is available – if you have seven center backs with your nationality but no strikers, that is what you must work with.
And we hear this again and again about “tactics”. Everyone loves Van Gaal. And when you bring Van Gaal into the house, you bring in quality. But you also bring in someone who thinks he knows everything. And that will bring clashes. Just ask Angel Di Maria! When you have Van Gaal in charge, it is a fact that there is fear in his team. The players have a fear for Meester Van Gaal. That is not always good.
In Koeman’s team, there is belief, confidence, resolve. There is no fear. Just hear from the players themselves! Talk to Van Dijk, to Memphis, to Simons. Even substitute Weghorst who wants to start. Are they asking for the manager to be out? Are they criticizing him? No, because they are successful with Koeman! There are no clashes, no internal sniping, no typical Dutch self-destructive mentality. Why? Koeman as a manager knows what it takes to be successful based on the success of Koeman as a player. It is not easy to be so strong in defense, so decisive in attack, so ruggedly handsome with such a sly sense of humor. And also such a good cook. But I digress.
If I were Koeman, I would ask all of you to thank me for molding the current squad into such a successful team that the whole country can get behind and support. But there is more work to be done, and I have great confidence in the manager to make these decisions going forward.
When my two boys were growing up and asking me about Dutch football, I showed them all the matches from the European Championships in 1988 when we beat Germany in the semi-final and won the final against Russia. That is what Koeman has achieved as a player and what he can lead us to again as Netherlands coach!
Maybe you shud look at his coaching career and then reflect it to what you are saying.
Once again my question to you is what is that he has done to make you say he has moulded a good team. He interhited a good squad from Van gaal and the next coach will have the same. I really don’t get how you making these claims.
Het gras is altjid groener in een andere tuin!
@Wilson, I don’t think you deal in realism. Anyone who has not managed before assumes that what appears on paper will automatically materialize on the pitch. It is never so easy, and a good manager adapts to changing conditions. But since you are so interested in exploring alternatives, let’s take a moment to evaluate the other national team managers out there. Put yourself in the boots of other European teams. Tell me, who were the best managers in this tournament?
Before the first ball is kicked, you have many obvious candidates. But what happens?
Deschamps? Dreary disappointing football
Spalletti? Went splat!
Nagelsmann? A tinker toy
Dalic? Past it
Martinez? In awe of Ronaldo
Tedesco? Underachieving
And now, after all but one match has been played?
Rangnick? Pressing is back!
Yakin? Swiss bliss
Montella? Turkish delight
Southgate? Dull, mediocre football but results
De la Fuente? Just a youth coach… until he’s not
Results change perception. France, Italy, Germany, Croatia, Portugal and Belgium all now have some questions to ask about their managers. While Austria, Switzerland, Turkey, England and Spain are firmly committed to their coaches for 2026 and beyond!
Why would you not feel the same about our manager? We survived the most competitive group and played better and better as the tournament went on, and barely missed out on the final with a squad no one expected to advance very far. To me, that is recognition of the manager doing an excellent job! But hey, I am just a realist
Dear Jan,
Thank you for the mention and slightly faint praise! But if the opportunity is available, just let me know and I am happy to return for 2026! I don’t think Curaçao will really mind. It will be like 1994 in the USA all over again!
Nogmaals bedankt,
Nicolaas
Nicolaas, you’re welcome.
Ronald (broer of Erwin), I think you need to be realistic here. You made some bold choices and some of them failed.
Before the tournament, you said: we can only get far if Memphis is in top form.
What do you think this does to the confidence of Brobbey, or Gravenberch, or Malen?
And guess what: Memphis was not in form, but we still managed to reach the semis.
Despite you. We simply had a massive luck finishing third and still getting in the weak side of the draw.
You put your trust in Memphis and Wijnaldum. The whole nation was in doubt.
You selected Brobbey, but not Zirkzee. Until Brobbey got injured and you went for Zirkzee after all.
You said Xavi wouldn’t cut it as a 10. But he was definitely able to.
Everyone could predict that the combi Dumfries – Frimpong wouldn’t work, you still put them together on the pitch.
When we needed depth versus England, you took Malen off and put Weghorst on, who would never be able to bring what he needed playing on the mid line of the pitch.
What was the deal with Frimpong/Bergwijn/Xavi/Malen on the right?
You were able to create a nice vibe. Great! You were able to pick a logical squad.
But with the top talent we do have, you never managed to get a team to mould into a winning and exciting team. After Van Gaal and Frank de Boer, the KNVB and the nation demanded a swinging, courageous and attacking team.
This is what you promised before the Euros.
You failed to bring it. You couldn’t get them to start well in some games and in all games you needed to repair what went wrong.
Someone needs to come in to: 1) make the tough decisions (Van Dijk! Memphis! Dumfries!) and 2) create a winning identity. Why is Spain able to do it? And not us?
I know Dumfries is popular amongst the fans, but he is not good enough.
Created three penalties in the last three tournaments. His game in tight spaces is poor, he slows the game down when he is already up field and gets the ball. His crosses are hit and miss. He has assists, sure, but he also has howlers of crosses and against England he had one of those blocked crosses where Stevie Wonder could predict it would happen.
He’s a good header, but we don’t need another header, when we have De Vrij, Van Dijk, Ake and Gakpo.
He did stop the ball on the line when Foden was about to score, but any right back would have had the task to cover. That was just Dumfries doing his job.
Time for better options.
ago
@Broer Van Erwin, given you are such a staunch supporter of Koeman, may I ask what makes you think Koeman is sticking with Depay, Berwijn and Malen when these players ain’t playing well at all? Why the obsessions with these players?
We have surely better players in Zirkzee, Frimpong..don’t you agree?
Wish to hear your opinions here.
Anyhow, Ronald Koeman should GO.
Wow, I am sorry to be writing so much here as a newcomer. But since so many of you seem to see our manager as the duevil, I feel like I should at least attempt to act as his advocate.
Jan, thank you for these thought-provoking comments. You have obviously been listening to things that I (if I were the manager…) have said. And if I were the manager, I would probably be honored that you have paid such close attention. Or maybe I would feel like the subject of a Police song. At any rate, you seem like a reasonable man with some understanding of football. Perhaps we are contemporaries or maybe you were a youth during our nation’s only trophy winning tournament. But you must know this – Ronald Koeman is a beloved figure in Dutch football, probably even more so than his father and brother before him (although things like that should probably go unsaid so as to avoid family squabbles).
And consider this: The heroes of 1988 are like royalty to Dutch people, including these current players. And so while coaches like Michels and van Gaal and Advocaat are respected, maybe even feared, the players look at them in a different way, because as much as they may know and theorize and plot out about the sport, they were never players capable of excelling at this level.
The Dutch players who Ronald Koeman coaches respect him in a different way because they know that he knows and understands what it takes to succeed as a top flight player (the same was true previously with Frank and Marco). It is to often triumph and occasionally struggle, and to handle the type of criticism that you receive when you do. So there is a different relationship there than may exist with just an ordinary “coach”. Now you will likely say “oh, so this means only a world-class player is capable of coaching world class players,” but we both know this is not the case. My point is only this — in the past, the Dutch mentality and mindset have been our undoing. And most Dutch coaches in the past have not been able to manage and direct those egos in a productive way. But Koeman can and does.
Further, of the two greatest minds in Dutch football history, one created an attacking machine at Ajax and with the national team that reached the pinnacle of the sport and should have won the World Cup, but for their arrogance and idealism. When given a second bite at the apple, that same coach was far more pragmatic, even as to playing a very non-Dutch formation and grinding out results, with an occasional bit of flair on the players‘ part thrown in. The other great mind was never able to coach Holland internationally due to politics. But he was known for sticking through his principles and vision of how the game should be played. He also was the greatest player in our nation’s history and one of the greatest the sport has ever seen.
So why do I give you this history lesson? Of what relevance is it today? Well, as you probably know, our current manager was coached himself by both of those great minds and was a decisive figure in both of their teams. And so there is really no one better equipped to apply all the Dutch know-how and lessons learned in the past than Ronald Koeman. The Dutch people know this. The KNVB know this, which is why he was given the ability in his contract to exit and return. So in my mind, Ronald Koeman is the only man for this job. And he has just successfully led a less-than-championship quality team to the brink of a championship.
And yet as I read the comments on this site, everyone is very upset with the manager. They think he has no imagination. They think he has no tactics. They think he provides no discipline. They think he is not a leader. They think he cannot get the most out of the players. But let me tell you, all of those things are untrue. The reality is this Dechamps is not a great manager, but he is a heroic figure as a national team player in French football. And his arrival as a manager coincided with a fantastic generation of French players. Beckenbauer was a heroic figure as a national team player in German football. Was he a great manager? I don’t know, but his arrival is a manager coincided with a fantastic generation of German players. Luis Aragones and Vincente Del Bosque were not heroic figures as national team players in Spanish football, but their arrival coincided with a fantastic generation of Spanish players. These are all successful managers of their national teams, none of whom had anything to do with the development of the players they utilized to win their titles.
As I noted in an earlier post, a national team manager has a little time to spend with his players, and is reliant on their clubs to truly develop them and hone them into finished products. When Michels managed the 1974 World Cup team, he had already been the club manager for a majority of the players. The team was almost equally divided between Ajax and Feyenoord players, both of whom played already similar attacking styles of football. So the national team was essentially already one everyday team and the players had real familiarity. In 1978, many of the same players remained plus there was a big influx of quality PSV players and the team again reached the final. Jump forward to 1998 with Hiddink. Again, Dutch club teams has been successful in developing a new golden generation of players that made it to the semi finals in France. I recall that every starter came up with either Ajax or PSV. Jump forward another 12 years again, this time Ajax had developed some excellent attacking talents, who combined with some highly skilled players from Feyenoord and from one standout from a personal favorite of mine, Groningen. But of course, the back line was lacking, and the manager was forced to play two holding mids to shield it, which affected player selection and prevented the team from playing true Dutch football. And again, I only offer this history to illustrate that it is the players who make the success. It is the manager’s job to guide and support and encourage and instruct and place them on the pitch in the best possible situation. But it is the players who win tournaments.
This tournament, we had strong players, veteran players in certain areas, but we lacked those types of players in many others areas, particularly in attack (other than Memphis). But as you saw as the team evolved during these Euros, Gakpo and Xavi are now ready (and perhaps by 2026, Zirkzee, Brobbey and others will be ready) to step into that role. Timing is everything. In 2010 we were lacking in defensive talent. And in recent tournaments, the opposite has begun to be true. Our back line is strong and we’ve been developing excellent center backs, but the attack is not there yet. But I see on the horizon, new young attacking players of true quality, and so if we can keep the defensive talent in place and continue to develop our midfielders around the three you watched in the Euros plus De Jong, and introduce these new young exciting attacking players, we will have a complete team. And that is a team that I’m excited to see the current manager coach!
Dear Broer van Erwin,
Ronald, is that really you as Jan says? If so, you truly have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Dutch football. I am impressed! I hope you remember me? It is Nicolaas! I was Michels’ assistant on our Euro winning team in 1988, and also your manager with Oranje from 92-94. We later crossed paths as well when I followed you as manager after your 16 matches at AZ and then when you succeeded me as national team coach (the first time you took over the role in 2018), and I am happy to succeed you again when you are next fired. Maybe you could then replace me in Curacao? It is lovely here, although the UV Index is extreme today!
Anyway, I thought it was thoughtful for both you and Jan to reference me in a semi-positive light in both of your posts. It is nice to be “respected”.
Best of luck in all of your future endeavours.
Sincerely,
Nicolaas
P.S., Ronald, if it really is you, please also give my regards to your “broer” Erwin. I know his managerial career has not taken off as yours has, but it is nice to see the two of you on the bench together. But please encourage him — at this point, he has only managed 8 teams in 5 countries — so there are plenty more time and opportunities for him to come!
Dear Broer,
So much thanks for the so many things you offer for us to consider and reflect upon. But, I wonder, rather than looking back, perhaps you might look forward, or, rather, provide us insight as to how Ronald might look forward, to the journey through 2026?
The Nations League will be upon us in a couple of short months. While a prize, to be sure, it is but a light bulb against the sun of the World Cup.
We play in a NL group containing the ancient enemuy as well as two potentially tricky sides. At the same time, two teams from the group stage advance. So how does Ronald use this to his best advantage? Will he depend on his old guard of Van Dijk, Ake, Memphis, Denzel, Donyell, De Vrij, et al.? And if so, why?
Wouldn’t, aiming towards 2026. it be more useful to run out a fresh group. Imagine taking the field with a lineup Hartman/ Maatsen, Van de Ven, J. Timber, Frimpong; Frenkie, Gravenberch/Reijnders, Simons; Gakpo, Zirkzee/Brobbey; Lang? While Lang might prefet to play on the left, wouldn’t he do anything to just get the chance to be on the field, and couldn’t Ronald entrance him with stories of past Dutch greats who adapted to new positions just for the chance of making an impression in the National team? Isn’t such a group, in addition to being young and hungry, be also technically gifted and have the speed and athleticism to cover a field like no collection of Dutch players we have seen in a number of years?
As I recall, Ronald was on the field in 1994—playing in such places like Florida, Washington DC, and Dallas, Texas. As he prepares for a 48 team field, 5 plus week, and 32 team knockout round in 2026, has he learned the lesson of the dreadful humidity and heat (and 34 years later, it won’t gotten any cooler in June and July this time around) of the American and Mexican summer? Won’t he need contributions from all 26 in the squad? And doesn’t the compressed calendar of the upcoming NL group play give him the opportunity to see all the younger players (including those not mentioned in the starting lineup offered above) in real competition.
And wouldn’t such a team avoid the jaded performances of older players who have run too far, too long in a short of a time? And, then as he wishes to blend his team for the soon after WC qualifiers, won’t his old guard be more rested and fresher to take on that task?
These are questions I think about.
But I wonder what Ronald thinks as he prepares for the campaign to come?
@Broer van Erwin
Halo there again and I will say I like your optimism and will request feel free and continue to write.
I will acknowledge you on your point that we are merely fans and to step into the shoes of coach at that level would be out our league however koemans strengths and weakness is well documented. And I agree on Jan’s point koeman is not a coach who can strive starting from scratch. He has shown to be successful with established players like in 2018 when he inherited the squad with peak van dijk,wijnaldum and depay and with other well established players ike Promes,bergwijn and frenkie and the recall of babbel. the rest is history and what we saw how the team succeeded leading to Nation league final.probably the best in euro at that point in time. Critics can argue that you can’t compare international to club level but the traits speak for itself and if you look at his two tenures at Southampton and everton respectively you again come to the same conclusion leading to his success and failure.
Conclusively and again I agree with Jan, he is not the right coach to lead the talented young generation that is at the helm atm. It’s time for young generation coach who can bring a modern day approach to the game. And I reckon it has to be van bommel and bert van Mawijk as his assistant as somebody pointed out. Well if he wants his FIL to be there.for bosz if KNVB approaches PSV,I’d say well and good.
On your second point about the coaches.again I will say this other big teams didnt have the luxury of easiest passage that NT had. And again I will say No way the dutch were in a competitive group. As a matter of fact they got pegged by Austria to the thitd spot. Otherwise they were certain to qualify as runner up after the draws and even koeman said we can finish at the top.Also those who bowed out on penalties, certainly you have to symapthise with them and cant blame the coaches.
Koeman was the most prolific coach at this euros with in depth knowledge of the team and probably one of the most experienced one as well. You can argue there is always high expectation when the dutch team plays but given how they stumbled at the first major block even though at SF stage it no worth sympathizing knowing that this eventually would have been the case at any stage ( knock out ) if they would have early collided with a top team. I think this is where the concious of bad outings is trigged from. Everyone is talking about the being robbed but could they have done it if not for PK. Big question mark. Yes the dutch looked better in second half but it was at the expense of england playing more conservative after the equalizer.
I mean you look at croatia and modric vs iltaly and zaccagani 98′ equalizerand them bowing out in group stage.Modric eating his shirt in the build to that equalizer. Worthy of sympathy and heart whelming. The press thanking modric and telling him to keep playing. Sympathy Where it’s due.
I’m still trying to figure out what if NT would have scraped past and into the final. How the critics would have reacted then. Let’s also not forgot the criticism from Dutch media and ex players and fraternity were constant through out the tournment on koemans approach
@Andrew @Wilson
Thank you for your more balanced and considered analysis. And it is true, hoge bomen vangen veel wind. But candidly, I can concede that Holland’s performance under the manager’s tenure has been sometimes… uneven. And as @Jan says, there have often been times where the initial game plan has not worked as anticipated and adjustments have been needed. But I would argue that these instances show that the manager is growing into the role and getting to know his players better. And when the manager has made adjustments, they have generally succeeded in their objective — take vs England for example.
After taking the early lead, it is true that the Dutch team went into a shell and let England have the ball extensively. This was not a tactical decision, however as much as human nature. In a knockout match, a team with an early lead knows that it will have to defend it and the trailing team knows they now must score to survive. So Xavi’s goal actually shifted momentum very much in England’s favor. England snatched the reins and our players became more conservative and less risk taking. Then England were awarded the penalty after a period of transition in initiative, and a few minutes later Memphis must be withdrawn due to injury. The manager brought on Veerman because it was apparent that the midfield battle was being lost and it was necessary to regain some control. Yes, there were other possible options, but given his dire performance vs Austria where he was substituted out at almost the same timeline, this seemed like an opportunity for his redemption. But it is challenging to rearrange structure and change tactics dramatically mid-match, and I agree that there was a period of chaos leading up to halftime, until the last few minutes, where our team wrestled possession away from England and kept it.
Further discussions occurred at halftime and more formal reorganization was set. And if you look at the second half statistics, England’s effectiveness dropped very much and the match was much more even. In fact, despite the 1-1 score line, Oranje created many more opportunities out of relatively balanced possession until England stole one at the death. The manager had planned to give a fresh attack in extra time with the young duo of Brobbey and Zirkzee, but once the goal was scored, he had to bring them on instead in the final moments of regulation.
With all that noted, I acknowledge that Koeman’s prematch tactics have not always gone according to plan, but things happen during matches that are not always in the manager’s control and I would argue that his in-game instincts are good and his adjustments regularly are successful.
I notice that my posts here become very long, so I will try to respond to other criticisms in separate writings, including @Andrew’s plans for Nations League and beyond.
To continue to speak candidly, I would say that most national team managers do not often throw caution to the wind and devise radical line-up adjustments or leave success or failure in the hands of young untested players (unless of course they are in a situation with nothing to lose). There is too much reputational harm possible in making decisions that go against the grain. So most international managers will play it safe. And I understand people’s complaints about Wijnaldum and Blind. But I will say a few things. First, each of those players brings experience, composure and leadership. Whether or not they have an active role on the pitch, they are valuable in team-building, help manage the squad mentality, and can provide corrective action in a pinch. And let’s see, Wijnaldum played 70 minutes across 3 matches. Blind played 1 minute of 1 match. Some people even complained about Bergwijn’s inclusion in the squad, but he proved essential vs Romania, where we played some of our best football. And so, experience is something a manager will always value.
Going forward, @Andrew mentioned the Nations League as a chance to experiment with new young talent and to begin to mold a new squad in preparation for 2026. And I 100% agree. These will be competitive matches that we would like to win, but they will also be proving grounds. Our goal is truly 2026 so I expect this to be a big part of our approach. And I agree as well that the climate conditions in the US will dictate that our squad be very deep and incorporate young players who can handle the workrate required. And so, if you see the manager trotting out 33+ year old players in the months ahead, feel free to scream at him then! Although Wout may be make it to America because he is our good luck charm!
Just curious who everyone is supporting today?
My son just showed me some webcam footage of him watching the Xavi Simons goal vs England. He’s an Arsenal and Dortmund fan and really likes Saka, and to a lesser extent Rice and Bellingham. And unlike me, he rarely shows much reaction in response to goals or other big moments (which probably explains his own success as an athlete). But he jumped up out of his chair for Xavi’s goal and ran around the room! Hilarious!
For me today, I actually like Spain’s football much better (both than England’s and than Spain’s prior teams), but I just don’t know if I can bring myself to cheer for them. 2010 still lingers for me…
Spain has generally controlled the match so far, but without generating a lot of great chances. England has had a few moments, but I still just can’t understand their use (or rather non-use) of Foden and Bellingham.
It seems like the ultimate tautology, but goals change everything. This match has remained cagey and kind of dull with neither team committed to trying to score because their opponent hasn’t scored yet. In our semifinal match, I think Xavi’s goal ironically brought the best out of England, at least for a while.
The first goal scored in this match, if and when it comes, will change everything! But that’s one of the most frustrating things about the modern “tactical” approach…
34 year old Kyle Walker making some very aggressive forward runs but 22 year old Saka not giving him the ball. Can’t imagine we’ll see much more of that
Rodri with a huge block on Kane during a transition opportunity. And England with a free kick at the end of the half
And Nico Williams to open the scoring on a wing to wing cross! Now we’ll see what England actually can do…
Morata with glorious opportunities for both an assist and a goal but achieves neither
Kane off for Watkins. 13 total touches. Morata who has been equally ineffective has 29 during the same period (60 minutes)…
70 minutes in and still essentially nothing from England. How disappointing it must be for their “golden generation” to have so many chances and continue to fall short. This Spanish team isn’t even that good. The 2008-2010-2012 edition had far more talent, although this team is more attacking due to their young wings.
Cole Palmer apparently didn’t appreciate that last remark! 1-1!
Pickford with a big save! Just under 10 minutes to go…
Spain! 2-1 ! A slow developing lateral 1-2 put in oryarzabal. But was he offside?
A flurry of shots for England off the corner! Rice with two chances, but denied!
Cucurella is literally just one game long extended dive. The worst aspect of Spanish football.
And Spain wins!
It is certainly true that Spain consistently played the best football throughout the tournament and made the most of their opportunities. Their young wings have totally changed the nature of their play and made them far more dangerous than the metronomic tiki-taka version, even though I would argue that their earlier Euro-winning versions had a higher overall talent level. Congrats to Spain who were deserved champions !
Well deserved win by Spain.
@ Broer Van Erwin
You’vevmentioned how much people in the Netherlands love Koeman and he is a hero but Koeman doesn’t show the love back because as soon as he found a better opportunity, he bounced. As soon as he got a call from Barcelona, he bounced. It’s pretty obvious that you like Koeman but no need to try that hard. Koeman is just average coach. All of the miss steps iat the euro and more were a clear indication that is not what you want to make us believe he is. His team selection, his tactics, his substitutions were questionable.
To be fair, for The Netherlands to becoming competitive again, they need more than a new. coach. We need to figure out why they aren’t producing top talents anymore. We need better skillful players and a modern coach. Koeman needs to be sacked right away. If he doesn’t get sacked now, we are going to find ourselves in the same situation as 2021 trying to find a coach last minute to rescue us. He needs to go now.
@jean_venette,
I appreciate your honesty. You have strong feelings. But tell me this – if Dumfries’ block on Kane is not whistled for a VAR penalty, Holland goes into halftime 1-0. And in second half, if Ollie Watkins uses the turn he tried today instead of the one he used against us Wednesday, then Holland prevails and advances to the final. And as we saw today, when neither team actively tries to score, it is no surprise that neither does. Holland and England were close to an even match, although England currently is more talented. Spain was certainly better than England, in the way they played, but not by an insurmountable level. My point is, a few breaks go differently and Holland just as easily could be winners of this tournament as semifinalists. If that happens, all these critics have a very different opinion of the manager. Like they often say about football, the ball is round…
Many supporters always want to choose the unknown over the known. They prefer a new player or a new manager rather than the one they just watched failed to achieve their goal. But if the goal is achieved, all is forgiven.
I don’t argue that Koeman is the perfect manager, but I believe that he understands what it takes to be successful, and with the right composition of defenders, midfield and attacking players, he can achieve success for us! Spain was balanced in all three areas. England was as well. France is also, as is Germany. We currently are not balanced. Our strength is too far in the back. But if we can gain balance in developing the other areas, we too can be victorious.
The approach to a South American final is decidedly different. After chaos outside the stadium before the match and a long delay, Colombia is going after it full force for the first 10 minutes straight!
Still 0-0 but a pretty entertaining match so far. South American football can be great and very exciting if you can get past all the diving and play-acting.
Argentina with a couple good chances and a possible handball. Ironically, lots of former Ajax defenders involved in this match — Lisandro Martinez, Tagliafico and Davinson Sanchez
Messi stumbles in pursuit and falls down injured. We’ll probably get to hear about the field conditions again, although Miami has a full time natural grass surface
Foul on Argentina?
Not sure what that was, but officiating has actually been fairly reasonable. Hope someone scores before penalties!
I’m happy they didn’t call it a penalty, but with the way they calling things at the Euros, they could have called it a penalty.
Personally, I wish they would restrict VAR to offsides, lines, and the goal line.
Yeah, that would’ve been absurd. They do need to get the corner kick / goal kick calls right too. So frustrating when they get those wrong
Messi out now with an ankle injury but Colombia is fading. Argentina scores, but offside. 15 minutes left
I guess they have extra time for the final rather than go straight to penalties
What a save by Vargas on almost a certain goal for Argentina! Fatigue setting in for both teams. More sloppy touches and less patience. I think this is going to come down to one mistake
Argentina subbing out Mac Allister, Alvarez and Fernandez.
But nice when you can bring in Paredes, Lo Celso and Lautaro Martinez.
That’s the type of depth and quality that we need to develop to compete at the highest levels!
Exactly. In international soccer, it is only a few group of countries that have a high probability of wining a major tournament. Since your talent pool is limited, you need above average players at every position. It is hard to crack that established group. A few surprises with Greek and Denmark winning the Euro competition. I don’t remember the last time a true underdog won the World Cup. A country like the Netherlands, Portugal, or Uruguay actually overperform based on their population pool.
Take Memphis for example. There was so much promise and hype when he joined the WC team in 2014. He was the next great hope, to follow the great attacking Dutch legends before him. But unfortunately, he seemed to hit a plateau at some point in his career. Weghorst or Luke de Jong were never world class strikers. So, we had a major unfilled hole in that position for over a decade since RVP and Huntelaar retired. I am just hoping Gapko or Zirkzee or Brobbey step up to the challenge. The same can be said in midfield. Other than Frenkie, we still lacking world class players in there.
We got world class defenders in Van Dijk and De Vrij, and I can add Van de Ven and De Ligt (with an asterik so far). But it seems that we have issues with defensive solidity. That is actually something that can be blamed on coaching and tactics. We also had a gap in goalkeeping since Van der Sar. Clissen and Krul were decent, but never elite. I am just hoping Verbruggen keeps elevating his game and reach that elite status.
At the end of the day, the players themselves have to make it impossible for Koeman to ignore them. If you start for a top 4 Premier League team, or Real Madrid or Barcelona, or PSG, or Bayern, there’s no way Koeman can bench you and start someone else from the Eredivise or stay loyal to an old veteran on the team.
Now end to end action and lots of clashes at the end of the first half of extra time. Ref just letting it all go now…
LAUTARO!!!!
In NT team,talents are not utilised and they are left frustrated. We saw how many playing mins were given for frimpong and Zirkzee. Definitely changes are necessary at every level to
Win the next WC2026
And the kane curse continues with southgate yet again left to taste the bitterness of falling short at the finish line. Once again I want to compare his situation to that of koeman even though koeman is a better tatical coach. @ Broer van Erwin.
Are the england fans sympathizing with southgate for reaching and losing the final. Do they want him to continue as the england coach. Well in the opinion of England football experts,critics,analyst, it’s No. Imagine reaching the final but still.Why? Because of his credibility to be a winning coach with the talents that England possess. Knowing and seeing how after introduction of shaw, the nerthlands staged the come back he started him and leaves tripper on the bench and then he makes that mistake of not doing what he did vs nerthlands. Foden subbed off,Bellingham shifting to LW ,parlmer coming in into the centre.how can you stray away from the winning formula. Even with mainoo fading, his sub shud have been TAA. Even though parlmer introduction again was impactful, the Spaniards took the advantage from the reshufle in the midfield from that change. I mean bellingham – Rice- Parlmer. Like I always say, shot his own foot there.
Also How ironic it was,that they never received that PK on cucurella’s handball. Talk about karma and how they couldnt turn it around this time around.
Being said Spain from the starting of euros had set a high bench mark and it’s no surprise that they won. They had everything thing in every position,balance,cutting edge especially on the wings. I remember debating on this alot when it comes to knock out stages, the player head to head becomes a critical component as to which way the balance will swing. Spain will again be favourites for the World cup with gavi,pedri balde,Fati,pino, and upcoming sensation Ivan Fresneda further reinforcing the team. You have to acknowledge they have come out of no where and surprised everyone with they have showcased.especially with no more Barcelona and Madrid dominance in the team compared to before. I also see pep taking up the Spain head coach job in not so distant future. Its building up for him.
For england, you wanna sympathize with them but looks like it’s not yet written in the stars for them. I remember writting this on england football forums that with kane and southgate england will never win anything. I was also watching a video of kane being narrated as the most unfortunate player ever to grace football. Back to drawing board for them. They still have talents like rasford,sancho,Greenwood,loftus cheek,Abraham,bynoe gittens who can reinforce the team but probably they need a more influential coach than southgate.
Broer Van Erwin
Even if the made the finals, I would still ask for Koeman to be sacked. The Netherlands made the semifinal not because they’ve impressed anyone. They had the easiest path and even with that, they struggled every step of the way. We’ve played with Europeans teams that are the bottom of the FIFA rankings and beat them just by being lucky. So the idea of keeping Koeman around just because we’ve made the semifinal is ridiculous.
Like I said, Koeman isn’t the only problem. I don’t think you can win trophies with a bunch of average players. Argentina did it in 2022 but they have Messi.
We can’t win anything with Dumfries. Dumfries can’t dribble pass a 13 years old. Ake on the left flank is good but provides very little to the offense. Unlike Kunde from France, Ake barely provides any assists, any crosses. Up front, Gakpo is good but he’s by himself. Depay, since his time at PSV, hasn’t done much. He’s on the bench every where he goes.
In midfield, De Jong hasn’t met all the expectations. He was totally absent at the WC. .
In Conclusion, I say continue to look for more talents, and definitely bring in a new and modern coach to start with the young players we have now and hopefully by 2026, we’ll have a competitive squad.
I think it’s kind of amusing that, unlike Hendrik, Aloysius and Nicolaas who seem pretty comfortable in their own skin, Broer van Erwin appears to be Ronald Koeman pretending to not be Ronald Koeman in order to passionately defend Ronald Koeman…
So here I am back again! @JB, so you and @Jan think you have found me out? You think I am THE Ronald Koeman, one of the greatest Dutch athletes and personalities of all time?! If I truly were Ronald Koeman, why would I not just say so and instead create an online account pretending to be a very knowledgeable and passionate Dutch football supporter who happens to believe, as most Dutch fans do obviously, that Ronald Koeman is an excellent manager?
And why would Ronald Koeman himself go to online forums to defend his record and try to create a more positive narrative around his management tenure? Does Ronald Koeman need that kind of affirmation? The Ronald Koeman that I know (if I did happen to know him) possesses supreme self-confidence and would not be bothered by any negative on-line commentary that may somehow exist from time to time. And obviously, there are many other Dutch football fans who feel exactly as I do about our manager and could easily provide the same supporting arguments as I have in my earlier comments.
But maybe there is something deeper here? Maybe, if I were actually Ronald Koeman, I could use this opportunity to solicit your suggestions, tactical advice, and help with player selection, since as you apparently all believe that I (if I were Ronald Koeman) have no idea how to handle any of those things and desperately need help. So, let’s play that game – how about you all tell me your ideas as to how Ronald Koeman can do things right in those areas going forward, and then maybe somehow the real Ronald Koeman will get wind of them. Go ahead, I am all ears…
Come on now, don’t be shy! If you think I am actually Ronald Koeman, then let me hear your ideas, but with specifics please! @Andrew has already provided a well thought-out set of strategic points to consider in the lead up to the Nations League. But there must be others. And as @Forza correctly stated above, we are still in need of layers of quality attacking players.
Here, I will give you one thought to ponder — prior to our manager’s arrival at Barcelona, they had fielded a superb front line — one of the most talented and menacing imaginable — MSN, as in Messi, Suarez and Neymar. Not just world class but the class of world class! But when Ronald Koeman arrived, not to make excuses, but first there was COVID and an empty Camp Nou, and then the financial constraints where no players could be purchased. And so then, who was Koeman’s first real front line of attackers to work with after Messi and Griezmann were sold – Memphis, Fati and Dembele? Not terrible, but not at the same level – no one remembers MFD.
So now Holland is in need to assemble a new front line like MSN, but without buying new players. How will this be possible? Koeman had decided that he wants an XYZ attack – and he already has Xavi and Zirkzee! But there is currently no Y! He needs a player with the name starting with Y! Ugur Yildirim is far too old. If only Turkey’s Yilmaz or Yildiz had been born Dutch… Maybe Youri Baas as he can play wingback? And who are your suggestions for a true number 9 for the World Cup? Since Zirkzee is right footed maybe he should play the 9 rather than as a wing? Or maybe left-footed Youri should play inverted right wing? But now Spain has made it permissible to play with traditional wingers again, so maybe, we should go YZX? Or perhaps Weghorst still has something left in him, where we could push Xavi back to the 10 and play a WXYZ diamond? These are the complex tactical considerations that must keep our manager up at night!
@ Broer
Coaches get it wrong all the time. For example I truly believe that Bert Van Marvick got it wrong by playing with 2 defensive midfielders in the final against Spain and leaving Van Der Vart on the bench. That cost us the final. In addition to that he should have substituted Van Persi way earlier for Hunterlar. Sometimes your main man may not deliver. Against Spain we didn’t need Nigel De Jong. We needed someone like Van Der Vaart with his technical ability that can keep the ball.
I say this to that some of us may not be professional coaches but have played the game and also have been following the game.
Jean:
I frequently agree with a lot (but not necessarily all) of what I read here from other commenters, but in this case, I am with you 1000%. The van der Vaart / de Jong decision was for me the singular inflection point for this century of Dutch football — it was the moment we went from a Cruyff-Van Basten-Bergkamp inspired flowing, dynamic attacking side with flair and confidence and an attitude of “we’re better than you and you can’t stop us,” to the last 14+ years of dull, turgid, possession-oriented defensive solidarity with a few rare sparks of individual quality, along with a corresponding shift in attitude to “it’s possible that you’re better than us and so we’d prefer not to lose to you rather than risk trying to win.” Maybe that’s an over-exaggeration, but that’s what it feels like to me.
And our player development seems to have taken on almost the same mindset during that same timeframe — the quality players we develop now are all big strong, reliable defense-first athletes who complete lateral passes, and the dynamic, skillful creative players we used to produce seem like a distant memory (with perhaps a few rare recent exceptions).
Now to be realistic, maybe as a footballing nation we recognized in the 2000s the need to develop stronger backline players, and devoted more time, energy and resources to promoting those types of attributes, figuring that we had always produced a steady stream of artists with the ball. I’m not sure that it was even a conscious decision, but that type of player seems to be the product of this most recent developmental era. And to be honest, considering van Marwijk’s predicament, it does make sense from a practical perspective to try protect our lesser backline in 2010 with strength and numbers, while allowing the talented 3 or 4 up top to create their own magic. But whatever the objective, and whatever the methodology, the result seems to have killed our creative midfield play in the years that followed (although admittedly this is not a phenomenon completely unique to the Dutch).
Now I know that many will point out that there are certain players that are a bit redundant and just don’t necessarily function well together — Lampard and Gerrard, and Ronaldo and Bale come to mind. But Sneijder and van der Vaart didn’t have to be that way, as evidenced by Modric and Kroos, who have excelled together for many years. Ironically, the Spanish seem to recognize this more than anyone, and continue to churn out talented creative midfield players with vision who, despite lacking great strength, speed, athleticism or in many cases, even notoriety, willingly combine with others and continue to find skillful ways to rip apart highly organized defenses.
And no, the KNVB and national team managers do not fully control nation-wide player development, and there are probably a thousand random reasons for the recent wealth of center backs and dearth of attacking playmakers, but for me, the willingness to consistently leave Rafael van der Vaart on the bench in favor of extra defensive players symbolizes the decline of Dutch attacking football, a decline which I feel we still have not yet begun to recover from.
Dear Broer van Erwin
I agree that a NT coach needs to address mainly two aspect: phycological and tactical.
I still don’t understand why Bergkamp said after losing in WC 98 that they didn’t believe the could win the WC. Even with that amazing team, the Dutch players didn’t believe in themselves.
I think Van Gaal and Koeman improved the team mentality, but Koeman didn’t impressed me at all in tactical area.
My main concern is that Koeman repeated the same tactics that don’t work expecting different results. For instance:
1. Depay as 9. Depay is good playing as playmaker or with another striker beside him. As a sole strike he simple doesn’t work. That’s was proven in all the matches in the Euros but still Koeman insisted on playing Depay there over and over again. The only 30 minutes that Depay played a decent match was when Werghorst played upfront and Depay behind him. Why Koeman played Depay there against England when Depay failed there the 5 previous match? Why didn’t play Brobbey or Zirkzee, which were arguably one of the best players in Eredivisie and Serie A?
2. Why insist in 433 where it was clear it wasn’t working out? Koeman spend all the Euro trying to find the right wing and never found it. Why he didn’t play 532, the system that he and Van Gaal implemented and gave him so good results? We have arguably the best center backs and full backs in the world, why don’t adapt the tactics to the available players instead insist playing a system without having the right players?
Take as example Spain. They don’t have better players than us. His coach is not a renowned famous former player, at all. Is not a famous club coach. But Spain picked up their best players, regardless of the reputation and age, and played a nice and smart football. We should be able to do the same!
@jean_venette and @eduardorw, here’s what I say in response to your thoughts. I personally think Koeman’s teams are far more attacking in nature and style than Van Marwijk, Van Gaal, Blind, Advocaat or De Boer’s teams. And I think the return to the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 encourages better attacking play. The presence of a front three encourages balance, ball movement, attacking triangles, opportunities to press effectively as a unit, and the ability to keep the opponent fullbacks from bombing forward.
Now you may say that Koeman’s team in practice does not do all those things well, and for example does not have a real right wing. And I think this may be true, but from a manager’s standpoint, it is sometimes better to play with an attacking system that enables multiple players to play in their highest role with one or two players who are not quite as strong, than to reduce the effectiveness of the whole system and all the players by changing the approach entirely. Just like any of the other prior managers I mentioned, Koeman has experimented with different formations, but too much variability can be detrimental.
Looking past formation, however, the primary dilemma is that the current team has too many players who are hybrid or “tweeners” in their nature. There are neither true strikers, nor traditional wings nor attacking midfielders.
When you look like a team like Turkey, they play three forwards or a central forward and 3 attacking midfielders. Their front three are very similar in size and skills, which makes them almost interchangeable. And because of that, they are able to switch and overlap very fluidly and dynamically. That type of multipurpose forward with versatility can be very dangerous and difficult to defend. But in our team, our players are less multipurpose and more hybrid, meaning they are not equally capable of playing multiple positions, but in terms of their ability fall somewhere in between the characteristics required of those positions. For example, Memphis could theoretically play as a wing, a false 9, or an attacking central midfielder, but he is not a target man nor a great finisher in the box. Further, he is not nearly as dynamic as our other attacking players when crossing or cutting inside to shoot, and as an attacking mid, does not always provide the creative and incisive passing you look for from that role, except maybe in transition. But yet, he is probably our most versatile and experienced attacker.
You could make the same argument with respect to any of the others as well. Simons probably has the most pure talent, but is not quite a good enough passer at this stage to truly be a 10. Gakpo is probably the best scorer and excels at cutting inside as an inverted wing, but is less effective as a traditional wing or as a central player who can score in more varied ways. Only Weghorst fits within the definition and requirements of a specific position, but he is more technically limited and cannot really play anywhere else (unless like Ten Hag you fancy him as a 10 out of desperation). Ha ha!
Bergwijn is more like Memphis, but less dynamic and more suited to a wider attacking midfielder role. Malen is more of a speed forward in a two man front line who looks to get behind the defenders but doesn’t really function well in any other capacity. Zirkzee is more like a potential combination of Gakpo and Simons but without their experience or output yet.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all their qualities, but it’s hard to fashion a coherent front line when all are lacking in some key areas and none are truly complete attacking players.
So what to do? Well the options are either (1) we can weaken our current team by playing players only in the roles they are currently comfortable in, (2) hoping and encouraging their club teams to spend time developing their skills in the areas that we need them to be able to perform, or (3) finding other players that are more well-rounded or better fit within the system we want to play. Personally, I believe that Xavi can develop sufficiently as a number 10 to play that role for Oranje, but if not, he can still be effective as a wider attacking midfielder or a wing. Zirkzee has a lot of potential and we will need to find the right fit for him, but perhaps he could be a long-term answer at striker. With his transfer to ManU with Eric, perhaps we can coordinate efforts. Gakpo was very effective for us on the left wing, but needs to develop more versatility. Perhaps with Slot now at Liverpool, we can make more progress there too. And then we have Lang and others waiting in the wings, so I think there is a good future, but we just need time for things To develop.
I saw an item in the news this morning that I know many of you will have an immediate reaction to — so I wanted to go ahead and proactively respond:
Ronald Koeman will not resign as Netherlands coach to take the England job!
I just wanted to offer you assurances on that point as many of you are rightly concerned that our manager is in high demand. But no, our manager will stay and see this job through to successful completion (although that doesn’t mean he won’t leverage job opportunities like this in order to increase his current compensation…)
In any event, all the best wishes to Gareth Southgate in all of his future endeavors!
@ Broer
Thanks for your analysis. I think keeping Koeman around is a huge mistake. Why this nation has never been hungry and interested in winning trophies? The same thing that happened in 2021 with Danny Blind is going to happen again. We are going to hit the panic button at the very last minute and now trying to find us a Van Gaal to rescue us. Hahaha
Ridiculous!
And ssouthgate steps down after taking england to final. This is what I was saying about being sympathizing and good sense to prevail. Koeman shud understand this too.
Mean while tijjani Noslin is already setting the pace up.scored hat trick in preseason friendly for lazio. Though vs amateur side.can he be the one to solve the right wing delimma.but he played as forward. Versatile too.
–my proposition for who ever the coach will be is to firstly invest in a right winger who is currently active and fluent on the right wing. daan rots (22)of fc twente is blossoming into a good right winger being left footed. i have been following Fc twente in the preseason and while they are in CL qualifiers they have yet to make any transfer as of yet. hopefully if they can pull another strong season, he shud be called up. sem steijn as well for AM. He scored 17 goals last season.
kluivert as well at Bournemouth, other versatile one who can play anywhere upfront.
Injuries also has dampened stengs development otherwise he also shud be in contention for that wing position.