Les Bleus will turn Orange in Paris

After more than 10 years blogging about Oranje and its exploits, you do run out of cute titles for posts.

A crucial week for the Dutch. We were absent in France at the 2016 Euros. It was a disgrace. A debacle. If we’d miss the World Cup as well in Russia next year, we might best just call it a day with football.

But the moral is high in the Oranje camp. The new coaches – Advocaat and Gullit – do instill some confidence of course. Both coaches are confident Holland will qualify. The ever defiant Sneijder will don the band, and Arjen Robben will give everything in this match, as he always does. Be it for 45 minutes, for 60 minutes or for the full match. And the Big Three are reunited now Bruno Martins Indi Robin van Persie has joined them, after a two year absence.

Lets look at the state of the union in the Oranje camp. And let’s explore the scenarios as well.

dick ruud pre fr

The Dutch internationals are back together in Hotel Noordwijk, as per usual. Some new faces, some faces missing. Nathan Ake had to cancel his trip, as he hurt his ankle with Bournemouth. Bruno Martins Indi was called up as a replacement.And Tim Fosu-Mensah was called up when Kenny Tete had to send this thanks as well. Donny van de Beek has his first call up.   “I was very pleased to read those positive words of the coach about me. It’s all going quick but the team can count on me.” Van de Beek was about to go in and introduce himself to the internationals. “No doubt, they’ll be on hand to guide me. I have been hearing great things about this group and can’t wait to be part of it.” The young Ajax midfielder will have said “Sir” to eminence grise Robin van Persie. Back where he belongs. But whether we’ll see him play is uncertain, as the Fener forward came to Holland with a shoulder injury. The medical staff will try and work their magic.

Dick Advocaat, Van Persie’s coach at Fener last season: “Robin is one of the best forwards we have. Or ever have had. I know his fitness was an issue for a while but if we use him in the right way, I am sure he can be of tremendous value. It’s clear he is delighted to be back. It will inject something into the group as well.”

dick robin

Advocaat on Van de Beek: “We can see some great talents coming up and Van de Beek is one of the more consistent ones. He has made his mark at Ajax in a tough role. He can tackle, run, give the final pass and score. He’s a complete midfielder and I think he has a huge future.”

Ryan Babel and Eljero Elia were not called up, despite their good form in Turkey. “I know both players well of course and they’re really close but I decided for these matches not to bring too many new players in. For the forward positions we do have Memphis and Promes and Janssen. I would have to drop one or two of them if I wanted to bring Elia and Babel and Van Persie. I didn’t want to break up the team that’s been working for a while together. And besides, Memphis plays well for Lyon, Promes is probably the best player in Russia and Janssen would be a starter for any Dutch club. His lack of rhythm has never stopped him from playing well for Oranje.”

Asked about Ajax’ and PSV’s recent disappointments in Europe and Oranje’s dramatic fall in the FIFA ranking. “We need to face the facts. We are a small football nation. We have great reputation and history, but we are to be compared with Portugal and Belgium and Denmark. Not with Spain or Germany or France. And even France had a long spell where they lacked success, in the 1970s and 1990s. Denmark had their peak, Belgium as well and is now back with a great generation. We need to accept that we cannot be among the top of the world all the time. Whether it’s our clubs or our national team. It’s not a shame. We should be proud of all we did achieve.”

pre france oranje

Asked about Oranje’s potential victory over France. “Why not? Why wouldn’t we be able to beat them? Sweden did. Rosenborg beat Ajax. FC Utrecht almost beat Zenit. You have to be positive, there are always opportunities, and we do not have a quality problem. I do not agree. We have players like Robben, Memphis, Strootman, Wijnaldum, all playing for top clubs. De Vrij and Hoedt play every week against top forwards, our goalie trains with Messi and Iniesta and Daley Blind is at Man United. We still have more than enough quality to trouble France. And I also can’t see Sweden win all their games just like that. We have chances.”

Willem van Hanegem is cynical. The former top player and coach still believes better options are available. “I see Rekik and Ake making mistakes. Childish mistakes, and why not? They’re still starting out. Why not get Erik Pieters? He’s been playing well for years in the EPL and holding his own physically. We’re not playing Belarus or Finland. We’ve got to play Giroud, Lacazete, Griezmann, Matuidi. We need men, not kids. I’d love to see Leroy Fer as well. Key player for Swansea in the EPL. I think Van de Beek is a top talent. But a talent. Fer is an established entity. And with Elia or Babel, we’d have the unexpected. That might become so important, that one opportunity up front. Don’t get me wrong, I want Oranje to win, but I wouldn’t place a euro on our win. The French lost vs Sweden in their last game. They will not underestimate Holland.”

Arjen Robben is ready to rumble. “I don’t participate in all the talk of how good France is. I’m not interested. I want to know how good we are. I want to talk about what we can do. We should believe in ourselves, or simply cancel the game. If we go, we go for a win. Believe in ourselves and rise to the occasion. I’m personally not 100% match fit. But I will give all I have. Whether it’s good enough for 60 minutes or 80 minutes, we’ll see. But I’ll leave everything on the pitch. I was subbed by Ancelotti in our last match, but not because I couldn’t give more. I could have gone on. Match fitness, rhythm, it doesn’t play a role once the ref blows the whistle.”

The Bayern star welcomed his former strike partner Robin van Persie in Noordwijk. “It’s so good to see him again. I’m happy for him. It must have been wonderful to get back to Hotel Noordwijk and be part of it. He’s a born leader, charismatic and full of class. It’s good to have him back.”

wijnaldum klopp

Robben was on the bench, when France beat Van Gaal’s Oranje in 2014, which led to the 5-3-2 system Van Gaal used at the Brazil World Cup. “That match clearly demonstrated we weren’t good enough. So Van Gaal made changes. I can see that work against France again, but don’t forget: Louis had weeks to gel the system into the team. That situation is different now.”

Let’s look at the scenarios for Oranje: France and Sweden lead with 13 points, with Holland third with 10 point. The leader will go straight to the WC, the best #2s will go as well. Sweden plays Bulgaria, number 4 with 9 points. After these up coming match ups, there are 3 more games to play. With the first of the lot being played on Sunday.

Holland needs to finish in the top two, but out of the nine groups only 8 number 2s will join the winners. The worst #2 stays at home. Obviously, Holland is best served if they win vs France and Sweden drops points vs Bulgaria.

Rest of the program after Thursday:

Sunday 3 september
18.00 uur: HOLLAND – Bulgaria
18.00 uur: Belarus – Sweden
20.45 uur: France – Luxemburg

Zaterdag 7 oktober
18.00 uur: Sweden – Luxemburg
20.45 uur: Belarus – HOLLAND
20.45 uur: Bulgaria – France

Dinsdag 10 oktober
20.45 uur: HOLLAND – Sweden
20.45 uur: France – Belarus
20.45 uur: Luxemburg – Bulgaria


Defeat vs France would be a drama

Won’t surprise anyone: a loss against France would be bad. We then can only hope that Sweden loses too. We will drop to spot 4 in the group but with only two points behind Bulgaria and three points to Sweden. We play them both at home still. But a loss in Paris while Sweden draws or winst would be disastrous.

Loss Oranje, win Sweden
France 7-16
Sweden 7-16
Holland 7-10
Bulgaria 7-9
Loss Oranje, draw Sweden
France 7-16
Sweden 7-14
Holland 7-10
Bulgaria 7-9
Loss Oranje, loss Sweden
France 7-16
Sweden 7-13
Bulgaria 7-12
Holland 7-10


A draw still gives hope 

With a surprising draw in Paris, there will be a glimmer of more hope for Oranje. But merely a glimmer. Again, Sweden should lose vs Bulgaria.

Draw Oranje, win Sweden
Sweden 7-16
France 7-14
Holland 7-11
Bulgaria 7-9
Draw Oranje, draw Sweden
France 7-14
Sweden 7-14
Holland 7-11
Bulgaria 7-10
Draw Oranje, loss Sweden
France 7-14
Sweden 7-13
Bulgaria 7-12
Holland 7-11


A win is very welcome

And then the scenario where Holland takes all points from Paris. And if Sweden would lose vs Bulgaria, France, Sweden and Holland will all have 3 points, with Bulgaria fourth with 12 points. It would bring more excitement and pressure for all, as Bulgaria will have a chance suddenly too. The pressure will be on for all teams, but also on the home games vs Sweden and Bulgaria. The #2 of this group might even end up as the worst of the lot, and therefore miss the World Cup still.

Win Oranje, win Sweden
Sweden 7-16
France 7-13
Holland 7-13
Bulgaria 7-9
Win Oranje, draw Sweden
Sweden 7-14
France 7-13
Holland 7-13
Bulgaria 7-10
Win Oranje, loss Sweden
Holland 7-13
France 7-13
Sweden 7-13
Bulgaria 7-12


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  1. If you want to watch Dutch Eredivisie games extended highlights, you need to get a VPN on your computer.

    So you can “act” as if you’re from Holland. Then google “NPO uitzending gemist Studio Sport”

    This will allow you to watch all Studio Sport broadcasts with the Eredivisie highlights.

  2. Sorry, I have to agree with Van Hanegem. There is only a minuscule chance that the game will end in anything other than a France victory. In fact, the margin may turn out to be embarrassing for Holland.

    1. Sorry…..u r in fear and negativity even now..if Blind was coach and we play with BMI,Dost,Depay yes we could have been in deep trouble…
      You forgot following things..
      Dick Advocate is coach,Gullit is a lucky chap with positivity until he die..Ruud is winner,fighter..he will bring us luck…Ruud was ridiculed by many…you know God stand with ridiculed ones..When God stands with you who can be against…??if u show arrogance u will be humiliated…Ruud is humble and strong..
      Advocate is really a good coach than MVB,bert,Cocu and san mark…WE HAVE HOPE …
      we have
      Devrij back
      Mensah back
      Roben back
      Donny van de beek,vilhena,Wijnaldum are not lesser players…
      We have a Gk who keeps post against naymars,messis,suarez etc….
      i am scared about us only we can make ourselves weak by selecting wrong players..
      We have only 4 wrong players in squad..as long as they stay in bench…we are DEADLY..

      1. For once I have to agree with Emmanuel. Why do people think we have no chance, if you lineup our best players vs Frances best Holland might be a better team.

  3. Of course. Oranje always has a chance. Why not? We have seen smaller nations beat big nations before. And we are not that terrible.

    But if you are realistic, you need to see that the odds aren’t good. We couldn’t beat them at home, so why would we suddenly beat them in Paris?

    RVP wasn’t with the group for 2 years, Sneijder and Robben lack top fitness/rhythm, our defense has been struggling game after game (Strootman vs Sweden, Stekelenburg vs France, DeLigt vs Bulgaria) so why would they suddenly play the perfect game?

    We need some luck, we need a top performance by the team and by one of the players (at least) and we need France to be less than top.

    But, it’s doable.

    I personally believe we need to play with two up front.

    Janssen lacks the speed and radius. He’s great in and around the box, but we won’t be playing there a lot.

    I’d play Memphis/Promes with Robben up top. With Sneijder as false striker/10. RVP to come on for Wes in the second half.

  4. In my line up:


    Fosu Mensa – De Vrij – Hoedt – Blind

    Van de Beek

    Wijnaldum – Strootman – Sneijder – Memphis


    With Promes as sub for Robben or Memphis
    With RVP as sub for Sneijder
    With Vilhena as sub for Van de Beek.

    1. My ideal lineup is



      If we just fill out attack then we just bang goal after goal and they won’t stand a chance

    2. I wouldnt start Memphis is this game on the wings. have been watching alot of his highlights at Lyon and he hasnt been much impact ful on the wings especially in the dribbling department. he is only dangerous from open play when clear but his set pieces from the middle has been very effective though and has been poping up alot in and around that central midfield area.

      I would like to see him with strootman in the middle or as a striker

    3. Our Top quality forward players in the current selection are Roben and Wijnaldum only..i mean half strikers .(Bar Sneijder and RVP)….
      so why not Roben and Gini in attacking role??

      1. Because Gini is a great midfielder and we need him there. He has been used to playing there against top competition for over a year there so that is where he is at his best. With strootman he will be even better because the midfield he plays with right now in can and Henderson aren’t good and are holding back in potential. Janssen is a must up front with RVP

        1. @No Depay9….
          Gini has different role in liverpool as they have quality forwards up front in Sadio mane,Countihno,Firminhno etc…..while in defensive mid they are left with henderson,Gini and Emry can…Gini is the best among them so he starts every game ,he gives 100 percent,he is incredibly strong for his size..
          Gini,Daley Blind can play outstading attacking football..and they can defend as well ..Since their teams lacks class defenders/Dms in the team..they are used there…THEY ARE doing it fantastic..Wijnaldum was winger in Feynoord and initial days of PSV…he had banged goal after goal when he was in attack..
          In NT our Quality players are Janssen and Roben,now Babel is omitted…Janssen lacks speed…people say…We lack quality there..So Gini should start their for our sake and to create more chances…
          We have enough quality in midefeild in Strootman,Vanginkel,Van de beek,Vilhena,toonstra,Ake all are top notch…its hard to drop anyone…So why to waste Gini there and blocks the way for other hard working midfeilder..

          1. Janssen may lack speed but he makes up for it in all the other departments. I think if bazoer was called up then we could play him there and put Gini up front but we didn’t so we need Janssen up there

          2. Janssen,wijnaldum are few of my favorite players….i would put Janssen as No1 striker for unless a new RVN or RVP comes up…
            We can play Wijnaldum upfront by taking off Depay from left wing…THAT WOULD BALANCE OUR TEAM A LOT.We dont need to take janssen as he plays verey very well for NT…and Vilhena can take Gini spot in midfeild or Donny van de beek..

    4. I think if we have any chance of a win tomorrow, Wijnaldum and Strootman have to play the game of their lives. If these 2 guys brings their A game tomorrow, we are in business. I believe with Roben, everything is possible. I actually like Fosu Mansa on the left cause i never have faith in Veltman.

  5. Now that we are so close to the game everyone comment your predictions. I say 4-0 Netherlands. France has no chance and with their lack of attacking power it will be an easy clean sheet

  6. from an AD poll:

    63% believe we will lose hands down
    13% draw (including myself)
    24% we will win

    Dick said you don’t have to play pretty to win or get a result. That sums it up well. We should go for the one point and the 3 with Bulgaria.

    I predict very conservative setup …

    During the last training the back 4 were
    Veltman, De Vrij, Hoedt, Blind

    That is reasonable. I am not a big fan of Veltman or Hoedt but that’s what we have. The middle will be more interesting.

    1. just about to post this as well. he’ll get more playing time, so that’s fine by me. hope that him, Vormer, and Denswil can work their way to NT.

      I see that no.6 is vacant. he’ll probably wear it there

      1. Vormer is at the captain and they have also have Nakamba.so competition will be very tight. Club brugge also got boombed out of europa so its pretty much leagues games which by clasies standard is low. A return to feyenoord would have been better option.loan I mean.

        1. Feyenoord already has alot of solid midfielders in DM with st.juste Al amadi( even though I don’t think he’s good) and vilhena. He would just get benched at feyenoord

          1. Clasie is better than all the midfielders right now at feyenoord.Al Ahamdi was a flop at Aston Villa. Clasie wasnt. He has been loaned out to get more playing time.if his frequent being injured persists than im a afraid he will have no future at southampton.

    1. Feyenoord already has alot of solid midfielders in DM with st.juste Al amadi( even though I don’t think he’s good) and vilhena. He would just get benched at feyenoord

    2. Lol I wonder why people say that’s a good lineup a lot of those people have little experience like Coman and Lemar. Coman and Lemar are not nearly as good as Robben and depay/promes. Its gonna be an easy win

      1. No experience, then why do you think they are starting.do you follow them? Generally speaking. Anyone who does will know they are two of the best wingers coming up for the french. Lemar got the nod ahead of payet and martial and you are saying he has no experience.

        Robben and sneijder both played vs Buglaria. What happened and whats makes you think this time they will be any different vs France. Its always good to have him in the team but france is not bulgria and he also wont have the luxury of bayern players around him.

        Try weighing up all the pros and cons. Veltman and Blind are no offensive players, it will be a tough battle on the wings with both lemar and coman running the flanks.there is a question mark on Griezmann form but you have to wonder why he is always deployed in the centre when he plays striker at Atletico. You see thats the french strategy. He always plays as a false striker so when he attack the formation changes to 4-4-2 with progba and matudi coming up front where progba especially is very decisive. If the line up is same as above, this will be the same strategy the french will use and strategy to counter that is what NT needs to do.

        1. Coman isn’t even a starter for his team. Neither is martial. Lemar has had one good year so far and they may be some of the best young players but they aren’t the best yet. We still have an amazing squad and don’t bring Bulgaria into this because that was all blinds fault.

          1. you not getting what saying. even with two mistakes by De Ligt what impact did sneijder and Robben make in the game. that time has gone when you could have turned on to these two when the team was losing.even with the team losing, you would have expected through them to get back into the game but that never happened.vs luxumbourg and belraus you might expect them to do this but we are talking about the french here who are jus on another level right now.

            As for Coman, im saying this again he is a good talent certainly above any dutch winger right now. Bayern wouldnt have had jus bought him from Juventus where he was sitting on the bench. he started last week vs Bayern Leverkusan, had a assist for lewandoski and was subbed for Robben in the second half.he was regular starter when Robben was injured. he is more involved in assisting rather than scoring which Robben is more profound to and there has always been a tug of war going when Robben is playing with Lewandoski up front so you can see how he can be instrumental.. Giroud has been very decisive on crosses for Arsenal and if Coman is gets time and space to get the ball over the defense,giroud again will be decisive as he always has been for France.

          2. If you have ever watched Bayern Munich in the Champions league you will see Robben tears apart even the best defenders especially last year. Koscielny is Frances best CB and Robben has single handedly dismantled arsenal time and time again. And the arsenal team is better than the French NT.you cant say that they played bad vs Bulgaria they will against France because that’s not true. Robben was partly injured against Bulgaria and he isn’t used to facing teams with such low quality and completely new strategies. He faces the best teams day in and day out so it will be a breeze for him vs france

          3. @Depay9is best.
            You have jus said contray to what I have metioned above which I feel is not correct.you see Robben is totally different when playing at Bayern and for that matter in NT. When wasthe last time you saw Robben gave a assist in NT. In NT, he is always one man army compared, which means more workload and this is where the defender have been able to get better out of him contray to at Bayern where the build up is always there for him, only to finish it off with his trademake inside runs and curling in from the outside in foot.

          4. Depay9is best.
            You have jus said the opposite contray to what I have metioned above which I feel is not correct.you see Robben is totally different when playing at Bayern and for that matter in NT. When wasthe last time you saw Robben gave a assist in NT. In NT, he is always one man army compared, which means more workload and this is where some defenders have been able to get better out of him contray to at Bayern where the build up is always there for him, only to finish it off with his trademake inside runs and curling in from the outside of his foot.

            If you look at some of the EC qualufiers he played Iceland etc and under Danny he was very much contained except for vs some of those average teams.

            As for that Arsenal team, they had a shit midfield which France doesnt. They have two of the best in the business and will provide effective cover for the backline.

  7. it is stupidity to underrate kongsley coman and Lemar…both are 1000 times better than Promes and Depay..Promes makes up that with his work rate though…i am happy if Lacastte doesnt start as deshamps has alreday done 2 favors for us by dropping Dembele and Martial…thats an atrocious mistake by Deshamps.
    Both Blind and Veltman will have torrid time vs speedy trickery french wingers..i saw veltman pocketing Depay.but pocketing Coman is not so easy..As some one said..it will be a conservative match…i hope Dick wont spoil the game like Danny Blind did it with BMI,Depay,Propper and Dost..
    lets see..

    1. Don’t you guys realize the French will have at least two guys on Robben the entire time. They are going to realize this so Memphis and Janssen will be way more open. I have a feeling Robben is supposed to be the decoy so Memphis and Janssen can get in and score

  8. I’m really looking forward to this game ( links anyone?)
    We must have a strong start to the match, if we let the French midfield get confident we will struggle to contain them, Pogba in particular.
    I would like to see Strootman sit Pogba on his ass very early in the match so that he is looking every time the ball comes to him. If he gets space anything can happen with him, you have to respect his quality of play this season thus far.
    RvP looks really happy to be in the squad, I’m glad he is there he can still make something happen especially if Robben is in the mood to cut loose! Their combination play could be just what we need to score a goal or two. Having said that , it will be up to our defence to stay solid and not give away easy chances. If we can keep,a clean sheet for the first 45, then I think we can snatch victory on the counter in the second half. Let’s be honest, tonight is not the night for tictac football.

  9. janssen – robben

    vilhena – sneijder – wijnaldum


    blind – hoedt – de vrij – veltman


    most likely line-up posted on AD.

    looks good !

      1. no veltman will not contain anyone of them. that is true for most dutch defenders and french attackers. But Strootman will play as libero and we will double team them.

        there is another lineup posted with promes. so i am not 100% sure. the one with promes is 4-5-1 formation

        as you can see in either case, we will crowd the defense and the midfield. Dick is Mr. Realist..

        good luck to us 🙂

  10. This is probably one of the most important games Oranje has to play in recent memory. Missing out on a World Cup after missing a European Cup would be a disaster.
    Reading Jan’s article, it’s great to see the team is in a good mood. They know the task ahead is very difficult. France has world class players in almost every position. They can field two top quality sides with the amount of talent they have. In reality, they have been beaten. Portugal showed how it can be done.

    We need a more balanced approach offensively and defensively to get any positive result out of this match. I hope Advocaat knows this. This is not the time to experiment with new players or stubbornly hold on to old traditions. Just get a win or a draw at any cost.

  11. Tonight is a tough game against France.
    I think we still have the chance to beat them.
    Maybe we should make the field smaller with one touch football.
    Lock the midfield tighly and do not to let the french to take control.

    To the final 90 mins, France 1 – Oranje 2.
    Hup Holland Hup !!!

  12. Latest from AD:

    Opstelling Nederland: Cillessen; Fosu-Mensah, De Vrij, Hoedt, Blind; Wijnaldum, Sneijder, Strootman; Robben, Janssen, Promes.

    No Veltman. No formation info either.

  13. I post, as the info rolls.

    4-2-3-1 is the latest formation

    Fosu-Mensah, De Vrij, Hoedt, Blind;

      1. Dick says they need speed and power on that side since Tete can’t play and TFM has more than Joel in that department. He says he understands it is a small gamble.

        Can’t argue against that.

      2. its no brainer….Fosu mensah handles the toughest forwards in this planet with ease..Vletman is a brilliant defender but he cannt withstand this french quality wingers..
        Wijnadum at DM i didnt liked as he lacks vision or when to give quick pass…Toonstra or Vilhena would have been better..i want to see wijnaldum in final third..

        1. to be honest I have doubts about both Strootman and Wijnaldum in their positions. These will be the key players tonight. I also think Vilhena has a place in the lineup.

          Obviously Dick goes for experience and you can’t argue with that either.

          Not easy choices when a loss might be irreversible damage.

          1. Its a good lineup, I think. Def. I like TFM starting ahead of Veltman. Would have liked to see Vilenha in there somehow (in two games against MU last season, I thought he played well against Pogba), but I understand the selection of Wij. and Strootman. Both play for big teams. As partnership in front of the defense they will be more effective than if either one played in a sole DM role. Promes will track back; Janssen will run all day up front and be the first line of defense, and they’ll hope that Sneijder can make the pass to spring someone. Lets hope Robben is in form; and maybe he’ll want to prove something to Ancelloti (especially with Coman on the other side).

  14. sorry but i cannot see there is any chance Holland can score.

    I can only see one side keep attacking and playing with passion and sadly that’s france.

  15. It resembles me two games BRA – NED in 2010 and SPA-NED in 2014. Complete dominance of the opponent team and early 1:0. We all know who those two games ended 🙂

  16. We ain’t playing shit. Holland is going to be out for years considering we have nothing coming through the pipeline. Too bad, so many generations that could have lifted the trophy but never did. Now Holland have a bunch of BS players. So painful to except.

  17. I don’t think I have ever seen Holland look so inferior to another team. I mean the difference in player quality and game is staggering. In my opinion chances for Holland to win this game are minus 1.
    Why is Cillesen playing when he is a full time reserve at Barca?

    1. Strootman–Wijnaldum-Sneijder combination a failed one …always..today its no different..
      was Roben playing?
      Was strootman playing??
      Was Sneijder playing???
      take out Roben play wijnaldum there
      Take out Strootman play van de beek
      take out Sneijder play Vilhena…
      We will be a better team…

  18. Sorry… but if they not gonna chance their mentality in the 2nd half, and score a quick goal, then i dont see any hope.

    Its true, we have a bunch of BS players. Vincent Janssen doesn’t even get a single minute for spurs.

    Maybe its not bad. Give Holland another 4 years to rest, and i’m sure within a decade when new talent appears, we will be back where we supposed to be.

  19. I expected more from DA than this.

    I thought that he brought a real sense of organization and urgency to the term upon his arrival.

    Maybe that has worn off or maybe France is that good.

    In any event, each of these remaining games must be treated as a knock-out game as if we were already beyond the group stage in the World Cup.

    1 shot on goal in a half is pathetic. France has 10 shots, 5 on target and 60% possession in the first half.

    It’s going to have to get a lot better if we’re to have any chance.

  20. We are just playing so reactive at this point. France is on the front foot with a bounce in their step, while we look a step slow and a step late 🙁

    And Strootman with a second yellow for a dumb foul on griezmann

  21. Strootman was not playing great ….it was wijnaldum,promes,Blind,hoedt and devrij were riding the show….
    Do we need strootman to have a better team??

  22. Forget skill and athleticism, France’s speed of play / speed of thought is so much faster than ours.

    We look like we just aren’t ready / able to compete at their level.

  23. Italian ref… what else would you expect? Lopsided fouls called. The only gift was Robben’s foul not getting called.

    Absolutely no cohesive play from Oranje. I was wrong… this period will be worse than the 1980-1986 timeframe. At least then we a great load of young talent coming in.

    1. Yeah… it’s over. No World Cup next summer. So sad. Such a total and complete collapse. I was hoping that WC 2014 was not the last gasp, but obviously it was.

  24. I do not think it is a lack of talents, I think it is more training and coaching is a problem. It looks like Dutch coaching system is far behind of the modern football. That is why we need a foreign specialists…

    1. Maybe… but I think we do not have the horses in the stable anymore to play the the Dutch style. Whatever that means now…

      I mean this match is a complete and total exhibition of how far we have fallen.

        1. I would offer it has become obsolete because of the nature of club play. Our boys do not play together anymore. In the 1970’s through the mid-90’s we could still get away with it. Now? Pffffft.

          So yes, the Dutch style is obsolete in light of our players being scattered about during club season.

  25. It was expected.

    This is not the same france that we played in 2008, when we had RObben, Sneijder, Van Persie, Van der Vaart and…. Van Nislerooy.

    we trashed them 1-4 (correct me if i’m wrong). We all knew there would be one day they would get their revenge.

    The current French team are on their Prime. They almost (supposed ) to won the Euro’s.

    It’s time for Van Persie, Robben and Sneijder all to step down. we do have some talent players. Wait until more talent players come out. Give ourselves time to reflect ourselves and time for a new Dutch team to grow. I’m sure we will bounce back one day.

  26. This is exactly what I predicted. Totally outplayed, outmuscled, we look like boys vs. men, real men. They are better in every category especially technically, which truly hurts me as a fan since the 1970s. I fully agree with AZ-forever that it is coaching. I know that for a fact through friends in the Dutch soccer world, icluding very close to Gullit, Frans Hoek and others. The arrogance that is so typical of Dutch people in general (not coming form me but my Dutch friends) is blinding them. They think there is nothing wrong with the system. Look at the contrast with Germany. After a bad period, they changed everything and look at them now with a new generation of coaches that is taking the world by storm. We are 10 years behind and it will take a very long time, mostly because the clubs are also behind. Look at what happened this year at Ajax and what the stupid board did to the only Dutch coach worth a dime in the world ie Peter Bosz! It is complete incompetence and a lack of introspection that is quite scary.

    1. I agree.
      And we better take a long fucking look at every aspect. The drought of not making international competitions could make the 1980-1986 period look wonderful. We are probably unlikely to make 2020 either.

  27. I do not know how many goals we will concede but I feel that our defense plays well today. Midfield is completely outclassed. That is why we have such a huge disconnect.

    1. I agree.

      All the four didn’t play that bad. Its just our midfield costs the whole game. (including damn strootman).

      The back four are still young. They will learn from this

  28. Strootman red card made case this worse or else it would have been 1-0 failure at least..
    Thanks strootman…you have not played single good game for NT after ur comeback..

      1. i have said it several times Wijnaldum-Strootman combo is failed one…NEVER THink about it…We need wijnaldum upfront…and we need Toonstra,Vilhena,Bazoer,Ginkel,Ake ,van de beek as midfeilders…

  29. Strootman is actually horrible. We would be far better getting rid of Wes, VP and even Robben and start fresh with VD Beek, De Jong, and some of the Feyenoord guys. But my goodness, we are light years away from modern football.

  30. I’ve been saying this for a few years now: these players do not want it. Period. They are static, make silly mistakes. You can change systems, coaches, whatever. If they don’t want, it will not work.

    1. Toonstra had 4 lungs..he got omitted for strootman…how about it???Wijnaldum playing Dejong spot???how about it…
      Poor Blind defending Coman how about it..??
      Sneijder ????oh yes its time for him say good bye..

  31. that last shot on goal from Robben really take us back to Euro 2008. Lloris absolutely was beaten. it could’ve gone in and give us a much needed lift.

    oh dear. please start van de Beek next game.

  32. I think Dick will make a good decision from today game. He has chosen a good defense. Now he needs to refurbish midfield. if midfield plays well, our stickers will do a job the last three games. However, even though we qualify to Russia, do not expect anything good there.

  33. To give credit where credit is due, that was a masterclass by France.

    They could field several competitive international teams with their current group of players. They played with great skill, creativity, rapid ball movement and constant positional interchange.

    I remember when we used to play that way.

    To be honest, the “Dutch style” is everyone’s style now. Everyone plays total football and then some, layering on new concepts and innovations and training their players just like we traditionally have, but with increasing modernization and new techniques.

    We were once the model for the world, and the rampant attacking style you see now from the highest level club teams is sourced from our heritage.

    I just hope that our own game hasn’t passed us by…

  34. Honestly I am not sure we can beat Bulgaria. As I said, we are so far away from modern football that I am not sure we even know how to do it. The only Dutch coach who is capable of injecting change is Bosz (and maybe Ten Hag). We had no movement off the ball -I mean this is a crime for a Dutch team that invented total football-, no crispness in our passing, no technique. The future is very bleak.

  35. Sweden lost. Good news as Netherlands will for sure be heading to the world cup. I wanted to see depay out there ahead of promes I know for a fact he would have made the difference and destroyed them. And I’m sure if tete wasn’t injured the game would have completly changed

  36. Thanks to Bulgaria for a glimmer of hope. 4-0 scoreline is bad for morale. With two goals behind, a man down, against a vastly superior opposition, common sense tells you it is better to play it safe. They should not have conceded the last two goals.

    The big picture is the massive decline in Dutch football. There is clearly a lack of talent coming through. Where did it go wrong???

    The second part of the problem is the coaching and tactics. Missing out on a second major tournament really puts the nail in the coffin.

    What’s the solution???

  37. Yoyogi, the solution is introspection. They need to realize how low dutch football has gone. From horrible turf fields in the Eredivisie to a lack of insight into modern football. Everything has to be rethought, redone and rebuilt. The house has burned down, period. Now it is up to new thinkers to take over the KNVB and start fresh. From the clubs, to the actual league, coaching staff, youth education, absolutely everything must be questioned and analyzed; quickly I might add as there is very little time. Only then can a solution be found. Whether this will happen is another question all together. But let’s be clear, if they don’t, then Holland will become a nation of Cyprus’s caliber. It is that dire.

    1. That will never happen. Holland is still producing great talents and always will. You have to remember if you ain’t Dutch you ain’t much

  38. I’ve have watched the Dutch play since the 2006 world Cup. I’ll say that this is the worst loss by a Dutch team since I’ve watched them. By far. Before that it was a 3-0 loss to Germany (2012 friendly game I think?). There was no urgency, no drive, no nothing. I don’t blame the defense too much, I blame the midfield. I agree with AZ that Advocaat will make a good decision for the midfield. Van de Beek I would love to see. It needs to be changed. We can’t compete against a team like that with the formation and the midfield being that weak. There’s still a chance to qualify, but there needs to be changes. It sucks, because they can’t be constantly changing things. But as we saw today it definitely doesn’t work against a top team. I actually think France has the best team in the world. Good to lose to them by that much so we Advocaat can figure out and see the weaknesses.

  39. You guys are making the loss seem much worse than it actually was. Its not like they would have scored the 3 4 and maybe the 2 goals if strootman wasn’t ejected. The margin was so big because they were on all out attack and France was just cherry picking

  40. Solution? Who knows. This is not our job. This is KNVB’s job to find a solution and that is going to be long and painful process…Everything should start at club level. Look how miserable we look at club level. Last year Ajax success was an indicator of how a good coach can change things around if he thinks differently. We need more coaches like Bosz. This decline has happened during last five years. Five years ago AZ Alkmaar played in UEFA quarter-final and four years later they lost to Lyon 1:4 and 1:7.

    Second thing that has to change is artificial turf. We need to get rid of artificial turf, which also makes big difference in the quality of play. Last but not least we have to increase self-awareness. KNVB is a bunch of idiots and bureaucrats who care more about their chair rather than football. Another issue is that our players are leaving Eredivisie very early and underdeveloped. At their new clubs they warm benches, and lack playing time. Looks at Vins…Players also need to increase selfawareness and do not leave the clubs very early. I understand they want to make more money but what about professionalism and pride?

  41. We’re in a period of doom and gloom. No players, no coaches (look at dutch coaches around europe, terrible most of them). Worst of all Holland has possibly the worst football authority in KNVB. It will last for years, damage is huge. Goodbye to Sneijder, Robben and RVP. A shame they had to be humiliated like this at dusk of their career.

  42. It is OK. We were there (period of doom and gloom) in 80s and came back as European Champs. We will came back again and become WC champions in Qatar. But we have to be patient. I still believe that I will see Oranje crowned as World champions in my life span!

  43. This has nothing to do with the knvb or Eredivisie or crappy turfs or club performances. They just had a bad game that’s all it is. We have enough quality to beat france and I’m sure theres a lineup that could’ve played that could have beat them 4-0. It started with the red card and they just gave up after that. When they come back to the world cup in 2018 they will show how great they are like always when people have doubted them. Look at 2010 and 2014. They weren’t even expected to get out of the group stage. It was one bad game and people start losing their minds and saying we need a rebuild. Not at all. We still have world class talent and always will. Don’t worry. In 2018 the Netherlands will go far like they always do and make you guys ear your words

  44. Nicely said by Pieter Zwart at vi.nl : “The hard conclusion, therefore, is that the Netherlands has lost not only to France, but there is no foundation for building on”

  45. Our midfield struggled mightly… Sneijder is slow and Wijnaldum is a light weight. Strootman was left doing all the defending.

    Robben had to sit back and defend very deep consistently, when he had the ball at his feet, 2 Frenchmen man marked him. He’s not 26 anymore and cannot outrun 2 players consistently. Janssen had no chance.

    We’re still in this I guess but we have no stars left anymore. I don’t think we will make the world cup as we will tie Sweden if we’re lucky.

    Daley blind is not a player for this game, he’s too slow and his inclusion is probably a tactical mistake.

  46. France is much better in midfield. We cannot win with Sneijder and Strootman; we need younger, stronger, more athletic players. Dutch played too defensively today; once you do that, it becomes a mindset and the other team knows it. But you must also have the players. France has a bunch of good midfielders and we could not match–at least, not with the group out there today.

  47. Hi guys,

    I am not intested in debate how we can quialify. We don’t have other option but to trust in DA and in this group of players. They are capable of defeat Sweden and Bulgaria.

    But if we qualify, I expect a big change.

    For me this team lack spirit, movement and creativity.

    Why no to try Clasie for instance. He has a wonderfully fist touch, passion and vision. Is truly Strootman a better player? How many times he has disappointed us playing in NT?

    I prefer to play a no regular playing player as Clasie that use Strootman.

    I want to see a fresh orange. Fresh players, fresh actitudes and fresh coach with new ideas.

    I will love if we qualify and then comes a young coach and bring some new faces, like clasie, De Jong, Beek, and brings a new style. If Van gaal
    Is no available, I Will Love to see Peter Bozs.

    I don’t know if this will be the solution, but at least we try something different, and start to build something with young players.

    We need something different!!

    What are you ideas?

    How do you think we can Star over once we get the qualification ?

  48. I agree with everything you say as well AZ-forever. My biggest fear is the combination of arrogance and lack of knowledge. We saw that with my darling club Ajax. JC rescued it from a horrible period, put a plan in place (a sort of football board with a great player coach in the person of Wim Jonk aided by Jongkind) and finally started to show results especially when they brought Peter Bosz who is a true “Cruijffian”. He espoused JC’s philosophy of attacking football and he did it with mostly kids from the academy + a few players he brought in like Traore, Sanchez, Ziyech and Younes. But the goals was clear ie to bring 3 new players from the academy to Ajax 1; and guess what they did it. What did Van der Sar, Bergkamp and the other idiots do as a reward for finally playing great attacking football? They fire Bosz and Jonk in the same year.
    This sums up the problem in Holland. The Ajax Board is seldom right but never in doubt! Same with the KNVB. It is clear the league must change. Whether it is a merger with Belgium, or bring Chinese investors, something must be done because the Dutch league has become a mickey mouse league. And it will get worse after this year since only 2 clubs are left. Already the winner does not qualify for the CL anymore but I could see us only have 4 teams in Europe and all having to qualify through endless preliminary rounds. It does not take long to fall in the UEFA rankings. Look at Scotland. Their league used to be to attract some great players, but that is not the case any more. We are not very far from being in the same boat.

  49. A very bad result but Oranje is still alive. I just think the 4-3-3 for this group of players is not working.

    Strootman is not a holding midfielder. He works better in a box to box role from left midfield not from the center. He has cost us points but he should not play in that position and honestly now France has a better squad and let’s not panic that in life and football there are bad periods of time but Oranje will bounce back from this.

    Even the mighty Brazil was humiliated and now they strong again. The rebuild has started and we have a 50-50 chance of still reaching the WC. The result today was scandalous but all last 3 goals came with a man down.

    France had their bad period too!! Remember 2010!! Anyway I think with patience we will see a new Oranje and Advocaat is just a transition manager. Once Koeman, De Boer or Bosz take the main seat things will change dramatically.

    Keep the confidence guys.

  50. Are you really serious? You want De Boer? The king of the lateral and backward passes? He may get fired after only 4 games by a mediocre team like Crystal Palace. And Koeman? Do you get excited by Everton’s style of play? Come on my friend. Let’s face it, there are no good Dutch coaches at the moment except for Bosz and Ten Hag from Utrecht. It is a huge problem. Now that I agree with!!!

  51. After thinking it over I realized that the results tonight could not have been any better. This France lost has just showed us all what the starting lineup should be. Now we can only improve and even negative Jeff can’t deny we are going to win the world cup

  52. Also, about a year ago a position that was thought to have nobody fill its place now has multiple people who can fill the void in LW. With kishna depay boetius and promes all finding form the future looks bright for the Netherlands forward position

  53. We’d be in a lot better shape had Blind not screwed up the Bulgaria game by starting a 17-year old–first international cap–in a WC qualifying game, and the kid plays a quick role in giving up 2 goals in a match we lose. One of the dumbest coaching decisions I’ve ever seen. And let’s not forget how we got screwed out of winning Dost goal by an outrageous foul call. Dutch must get better but are not bad as it seemed today.

  54. Does not look good. Netherlands must win last three games. That will tie us with Sweden (assuming Sweden beats Luxemburg and Belarus). The tie breaker is goal differential. We are right now at +3. Sweden is at +7.

  55. All of you saying that the knvb are stubborn and stuck up and don’t know how to move on from the old Dutch ways know nothing about sports. That all fake news how it is the knvbs fault and we aren’t producing enough quality players. The Netherlands had a few bad games and everybody starts freaking out. It happens all the time when teams go into slumps. Don’t worry they will come out of it and become #1 in the world again shortly. Just like to 2015 season when the bluejays were 8 games out of a wild card spot halfway through the season and ended up turning it around and making it to the alcs. Netherlands are going to slap Bulgaria Sweden and Belarus and easily make it to the world cup. No question about that

  56. Good to see the old guys over here are back…i know that we all are gutted equally..
    My points….Relax
    French has fucking world class quality,or else they cannot drop Antony martial and Dembele…But yesterday we failed due to pathetic midefeild..Especially sneijder and strootman..Both are static and we wont be winning anything with Both as starters..Snejder must retire(this is not the end he deserves)..We must think a team with outRoben,RVP,Sneijder,Strootman..
    We need players like Toonstra(the new double kuyt)…Roben can e super Sub..for last 20 minutes when oppoent tired…
    We need to call Babel,Boetius…..
    I have been following the dutch youths for some time..the players caught my eye are Calvin stengs(Vision and inteligence with skills)..Fosu Mensah(power and speed)
    Mink peeters(Could be next Roben,this guy is top class talent)
    Xavi simons(Freak talent)
    Deligt(he will be a top class defender)
    Bazoer( He is top notch midfeilder)
    like this
    Babel—–Roben(only 2 old players we need as super subs)
    Van de beek–Frenkie De jong
    and 2 strikers????who ???
    Janssen was my last hope…now he is tsaying at Totenham…that means again in bench…

  57. Good to see the old guys over here are back…i know that we all are gutted equally..
    My points….Relax
    French has f##$cking world class quality,or else they cannot drop Antony martial and Dembele…But yesterday we failed due to pathetic midefeild..Especially sneijder and strootman..Both are static and we wont be winning anything with Both as starters..Snejder must retire(this is not the end he deserves)..We must think a team with outRoben,RVP,Sneijder,Strootman..
    We need players like Toonstra(the new double kuyt)…Roben can e super Sub..for last 20 minutes when oppoent tired…
    We need to call Babel,Boetius…..
    I have been following the dutch youths for some time..the players caught my eye are Calvin stengs(Vision and inteligence with skills)..Fosu Mensah(power and speed)
    Mink peeters(Could be next Roben,this guy is top class talent)
    Xavi simons(Freak talent)
    Deligt(he will be a top class defender)
    Bazoer( He is top notch midfeilder)
    like this
    Babel—–Roben(only 2 old players we need as super subs)
    Van de beek–Frenkie De jong
    and 2 strikers????who ???
    Janssen was my last hope…now he is tsaying at Totenham…that means again in bench…

  58. Next game Vs Bulgaria

  59. The word is perception. There is too much F**king perception going in dutch football .he is not good for NT level because he playing for a average club. He should be the captain because he plays for a big club.he can boost the morale of younger players, he has good leadership qualities so he should play. Select him because he can provide cover in multiple positions.This kind of shit menatality jus needs to go,for starters.

    You think about it.sneijder jus joined Nice how many weeks ago.he never played throughout the period when his transfer out of galatasary was dragging.yet he was prefered and was given the nod. Based on what? Perception.he wasnt in any form and was only selected beacuse of his status as being a central figure in NT.

    Same goes for janssen. He selection was jus based on on what? Perception again.he plays exceptionally well at NT level.but what about his form or fitness.

    Locadia is more explosive than Janssen and Toornstra was in better form than sneijder but yet both were ommitted and became victims to what?PERCEPTION.

    Also look at Veltmans selection.why wasnt Mensah picked intially and not until after the injury of tete.im still thinking who would have started between veltman and tete if not for the injury.

    What I feel the best solution going forward is this. F**K the WC and let players who desrve to be starting to finish of the qualifers and then build on wards after the WC going into euros.its no use going to WC with this bunch of Players as said by someone.

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