Weak Oranje Czeching out of Euros

I never did believe in angstgegners. It’s all psychological. But I too start to believe that we seem to be Czech Mate a lot against these guys! And sure, a lot of “bad luck” came our way, but seriously… If you really believe you are top of Europe – let alone the World – you can’t have such a collective off-day.

From coach to goalie, from central defender to new Barca signing Memphis. Not.Good.Enough.

And it all looked sooo good! We topped our – weak – group. We seemed to have the system down pat (ish). We found ourselves on the right side of the draw. Many experts in Holland already spoke about the semi finals, as if the Czechs and Danes don’t even compete. And whenever our “experts” get positive, it’s time to be very careful indeed!

As some commenters mentioned, it was all about the semi finals, it was about the terrible political situation in Hungary, who was supposed to team up with Memphis, should De Roon play, etc  etc.

But history should have taught us a lesson! The Czechs were resilient in the opening match of the Euro 2000 tournament. Ronald de Boer needed to dive to get a penalty, for his brother Frank to convert.

In 2004, we were on our way to victory, but then Arjen Robben got aggressively and ruthlessly tackled from behind with studs showing by Dick Advocaat.

I’m sure we played them a number of times more, the 2016 Euros qualifications are also still in my head. Janmaat’s backpass to Cillesen in the away game. Was it Van Persie’s own goal in the home game? What the hell do we have on our Bad Karma list re: these people!?!?

But let’s analyse this match isolated from the previous dramas. Because those past games are not an excuse. Even worse, they should have been an extra motivation! I actually was convinced we’d win this, partly also because of those past embarrassments! But no! We step into this big, wet turd yet once again! (not comparing Czechs with turds… Just a figure of speech. Trap. Turd. You get the drill)

What went wrong?

Well, I don’t think the line up De Boer selected is at fault. I don’t think it mattered whether we played Weghorst or Gravenberch. Even more so, I think this is the best line up, I suppose.

The system and tactics are also not at fault. The system didn’t handle the ball. The system didn’t miss that Malen chance.

We started erratic. We fell straight into the trap of the Czechs would would have said “Don’t let them combine. Suck the oxygen out of them!”. And we couldn’t keep the ball. So much wayward passing, bad touches and miscommunication.

And when you want to achieve something at this level, you need your best players to shine. You need a Van Basten ’88, a Bergkamp ’98 or a Robben ’14. If Dumfries and De Vrij are your best players, it’s hard to win games.

Memphis and Wijnaldum were invisible. Even dead balls – no pressure, no challenges – were too hard for Memphis to take. Frenkie de Jong got completely muscled out of the game. Our left wing back Pat van Aanholt did literally everything he did wrong. His touch, his passing, he ran in behind in off side positions, he was simply atrocious.

So without Memphis, De Jong and Wijnaldum firing on all cylinders, we are really mediocre.

And obviously, the Czechs left Van Aanholt as the free man. He was considered the least dangerous. Just like Dumfries was in acres of space, often. But we kept on trying to find the forward pass to Memphis through the middle. I think Frank de Boer should have taken the Palace player off. Bring Ake for Blind and move Blind to the LB position, where we would have a ball player instead of a blind runner. Malen would then take the left wing, as Blind is not a running wingback.

This would have forced the Czechs to make a decision. Now, leaving Van Aanholt open, led to so many ball possession turn around, it’s simply not funny anymore.

It has no use to criticize De Roon. Or Van Aanholt. They are not the lads to give that killer pass or make that run.

The only positives for me were Dumfries and De Vrij. Daley Blind was ok, but you expect more from him. His crosses and passes lacked precision too and he simply is not the leader we need.

But again, it’s players like Memphis – new signing for Barca – and Wijnaldum – new signing at PSG – who should have stepped up and didn’t.

Malen did what he could. As did Dumfries. They worked hard, they were positive, but it was not enough.

In the first half, our final pass was lacking. We could have been 2-0 up at half time, with some better play, but we simply weren’t good enough.

In the second half, Memphis finally had his magic touch: the flick to send Malen into space. The PSV talent should have buried it. He had so many options, and that might have stifled him. He could shoot early. Or go past the goalie, left or right, or chip the goalie. Or wait for Memphis. All these options….

One minute later, and Oranje sees red. A stupid mistake by De Ligt. Just fall on the ball. Odds are, the ref gives us a free kick. But he slapped at the ball and a red card is the logical outcome.

And we lost it completely afterwards. No belief, no leadership and also not the substitutions you’d expect.

I think  4-4-1 would have been best. Dumfries, De Vrij, Blind, Van Aanholt. The latter does have the physical strength to battle Coufal, more than Wijndal.

Use Wijnaldum, De Jong, Memphis and De Roon as midfielder, play compact and use the speed of Malen.

But for some really weird reason, our only fast runner was taken off! An Advocaat decision? And Promes (!!) was brought on??? What was De Boer thinking?

Memphis was not at his mediocre best even. I’d subbed him probably after the 0-1 for Gakpo. Who could have been the Memphis of 2014.

De Boer said he couldn’t play Malen more than 60 minutes. I don’t see why not? He’s a mature lad, strong, plays week in week out for PSV. Why wouldn’t he be able to play a whole match??

And Promes in? Why? What is his added value?

The Dutch analysts (Sneijder, Nigel de Jong, Ruud Gullit, Rafa van der Vaart, Pierre van Hooijdonk) were flabbergasted and claim this sub will also go down in history, like Advocaat’s Robben sub in 2004.

Overall, Memphis, Wijnaldum, Frenkie, Van Aanholt, Stekelenburg and eventually De Ligt all deserve a minus! Frenkie wasn’t bad, but he can play so much better. Today was the day for him to shine and he drowned.

Stekelenburg didn’t look good for that first goal, of course. But couldn’t really help that second one…

De Roon did what De Roon does. No more, no less. Malen, Dumfries, Blind and De Vrij reached a normal level.

Overall, Frank de Boer failed to find a solution for the Czech’s game and failed to make an impression with his substitutions. He might rue the fact he did pick Malen, as he might well have had a mind to play Weghorst as the target man. With Memphis as his running partner, and Malen potentially as a sub for later in the game.

He should have subbed Memphis who was completely ineffective

Either way. We are out. And deservedly so!

I will refrain from claiming De Boer’s head, but we will need to sort this very quickly, as the next World Cup qualifiers will be waiting soon!

Time to retire Stekelenburg and Van Aanholt, as far as I’m concerned and time to mould our ideal World Cup team together…

More analysis with screenshots of situations soon!


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  1. Ok lets go.

    Firstly I will take this opportunity to go back and dig out posts of some critics as to what they said and are warranted.

    First on the list is Robin O Brien. Where are you my friend.this is what you had to say:

    “and a challenge for Tiju, Wilson, and anyone else here who has posted nothing but negativity about this team: for as long as Oranje is in this tournament, post one positive thing about the team after every match. That’s it, just one positive thing. Then if you still feel the urge to prove how much smarter you are than Jan, de Boer, van Nistelrooij, Lodeweges, and the rest of the coaching crew, have at it and prove what a voetbal genius you are with your brilliantly cutting commentary”

    This was my replay:

    @ Robin O’Brien

    Since you have mentioned my name, I will say few thing here. sooner or later the short comings of NT will be exposed. you cant run away from this fact. when this happens, I want to hear from you as to what you have to say then. thinking NT will surpass expectation as they play more wont change the fact, other teams also are on the same road and the gap wont close up. I wonder what if the critics would have had to say if the game would have ended in draw. I can imagine the back lash on FDB.

    I have made my stances clear, I want to see NT win a major tournament in my life time and WC is on top of the list. I cant see this happening with this contingent and management. I simply down put up to false hope or expectation. you have to be rational to see a greater picture. well this is me.”


    Syber Pals

    “and I guess this place for Wilson and Tiju/Emmanuel to continuously rant childish videogame style football nonesense while trying to convince others that they’ve got a clue, hahahah – not working on me!
    They communicate more to us about their own selves than Dutch football, don’t waste your time appeasing them. Is it like 10-15 years of this now?
    Your a gem, Jan! Can’t believe they are so ungrateful and disrespectful to you.
    One can be critical without acting like a total ass, try it out buds

    This reminded me, and further echos Jans sentiments, that we don’t ‘need’ a team full of recognized superstars (while that would be nice), but we need to make a strong team with what we have got – mentality and momentum will go further than individual quality and selection choices for us, IMO.”


    1. You remind me of those doomsayers in English tv shows ( Dad’s Army had that one guy… “we’re doomed, doooomed, DOOOOOMMEEEDDD!”).

      You use negativity as an energy source. You say negative things. Then you sit there. And wait. And if Oranje doesn’t win the World Cup or Euros, it means they lose at some stage. And that is when you pounce. Van Basten is an idiot (Van Nistelrooy), Van Marwijk destroyed Total Football, Van Gaal got us playing 5-3-2, Hiddink is a fool, Danny Blind is blind and Koeman a coward for escaping this debacle and Frank de Boer needs to be executed.

  2. In my view, the red card defined the game. However, we didn’t have to get the game to that point. We weren’t playing well. Too many back passes and were over powered in the midfield. It was impossible for them to find a way into the 3/4 half of the czech field. It constantly felt as they had one extra midfielder than us. Then with 10, it was just a matter of time. There was no way they were holding 60+ min. like that.

    No shots in goal in the entire game. I understand this for the last 40 min. But the first 60 min too? That’s crazy.

    I think we need to start with a coach that knows about football tactics and management. Frank isn’t that. We have a better generation that most countries I feel. But can’t manage to get them to play in a way that’s consistent. Denmark has few big names, and boom, play pretty well together (why can’t we do that with better players?). I would get de Boer out as soon as possible. I believe he won’t get sacked though (knvb will say he has not had enough time to settle into his team’s philosophy or whatever), and we are looking at a lousy world cup, if any (50/50 odds we get there)

    How can we, as fans, influence the KNVB at all? Is it possible?

    1. Yes, you are correct with most if not all you say. The shots on goal stat is not telling the full story. IF you shoot 10 times and the ball goes just wide, it doesn’t count, but if you shoot 10 times right in the arms of the goalie, it does. Whereas the first 10 shots might be more threatening.

  3. Your analysis is spot on . No wonder in this result at all. Tactically failed. Czechs did not give much space in midfield through their positioning and aggressiveness. The loss might prove good for the team in the long run, with a New coach taking over, a better team selection and rotation policy following it. Many players who are performing and not given any opportunities will come in to strengthen the team for the world cup.

  4. I agree with your article, Jan.
    Except for this bit:
    “I think 4-4-1 would have been best. Dumfries, De Vrij, Blind, Van Aanholt. The latter does have the physical strength to battle Coufal, more than Wijndal.”
    After De Ligt’s red card, FDB had to remove Blind altogether to shore up the defense. We have Aké and Timber for crying out loud.

    I wish he used this opportunity to do multiple changes, in a 441 formation.
    Remove Blind, who is weak and slow to play CB at this level. with no extra cover
    Remove Wijnaldum who was ineffective and looked extremely tired all game
    Remove De Roon because we still needed to score a goal
    and play the following:

    Van Aanholt / Aké / De Vrij / Timber
    Depay / FDJ / Gravenberch / Dumfries

    1. Here’s my list of damaging blunders that FDB has carried out in the last month.
      Please let me know if I miss anything, or if you disagree with any.

      – Claiming he doesn’t need Cillessen so prematurely
      – Realizing last minute that he wants to play the team in a 532 formation
      – Leaving El Ghazi / Bergwijn out of the squad
      – Taking other players that didnt play or barely featured in the games, when they could have been playing and developing in the U21
      – Playing Depay and Wijnaldum too many minutes in the NM game. Wijnaldum played the full 90mins of NM, and just looked destroyed at the end.
      – Keeping Blind in CB, exposed, after De Ligt was sent off
      – Removing Malen, bringing in Promes.
      – Keeping Wijnaldum / Depay for the whole Czech game, when they were horrible

      And in general, no imagination, no flexibility.
      I even feel he is a bit too cocky, shows too little humility and too much pride for someone that has such an underwhelming managerial career.

      He deserves the end he got for this tournament.

      1. I think you can also add that the Dutch should have travelled to Budapest a couple of days earlier. Now they flew in one day before the game, from 18 degress to 30 degrees + humidity. If you want to micro manage every detail, this was another mistake.

  5. Time to dive in but step ny step.

    Pre Euros

    The team was already in decline under Koeman after that dominant Nation league outings. FDB simply jumped onto a sinking ship, thinking he could salavage it but it was never going to be. The signs were all there even with van dijk. They looked great vs smaller nations but kept struggling with bigger nations. Even though some were friendlys but still it kept casting shadow of doubt of the teams capability. The results and performances again geting thrashed out because of its friendly status. This needs to change and taken constructively. This is how another nations continue to build on to while the dutch take it as ” its just a friendly, it doesnt matter”

    I remember talking about this in the build to the euros, that window where they played the 3 WC qualifers was absloutely crucial for him to call up players who were in top form and knocking on the door but instead he opted for those who were either struggling or benching warming at their clubs, sighting experience and to be motivating figures for the younger ones. They took up spots which should have gone to those who deserved it and then he (FDB) dropped the bomb by not selecting those he selected early in the preminlarily squad. What a Waste. The most frustating thing about his selection though was that of calling up of players just to make numbers and then chopping them off when he knew they will not make the cut.. I know the counter argument here would be he selected players based on the formation he wanted to use but then why you wanna do that when you have players who could have done better than his experiment. The last hour selection of Weghorst and how he proved him wrong just in few games after being overlooked also throws the light on his character and credibility as a coach especially considering if not for COVID he also would have been on the chopping list on the expnse of Luck de jong.

    In my previous post, I mentioned what you eat is what whats gona come out. It was in context to his selection. If u eat garbage, what do you expect to come out. similarly his selection was going to decide the destiny of the team and it exactly happened as per what he selected.

    Lastly FDB wanted to pull of a van gaal jab like in 2014 but he forgot, for any system you need to have right players and above all the 2014 team was on another level.

    Euros Next

  6. Also Looking at this 532 business moving forward, I mean I see the appeal:
    – We have world class centre backs. So let’s put 3 of them in the starting 11.
    – Dumfries was able to shine
    – We do have quick forwards that can benefit, like Malen

    But then,
    – We have De Roon as a defensive midfielder. Im still amazed that this is the best FDB thought the Netherlands have in this position
    – We have no similar player to Dumfries on the left hand side
    – We sacrifice using a good deal of forwards that could have been very threatening for us. Gakpo, El Ghazi, Berghuis, Bergwijn. Weghorst is also ineffective in a 532, due to the lack of service.
    – We have to rely on our star players to shine. It’s either Depay’s day or we’re bust.
    – We also overuse our star players because there are no alternatives with similar qualities in this formation: Depay, Wijnaldum.

  7. Defensively we were ok, except for the De Ligt blunder. But we failed to win the midfield and create chances as in the previous matches. Wijnaldum wasn’t his usual self, yes I agree – don’t know what happened, he had 6 days to recover from the Macedonia match!

    Anyway, there were enough chances to open the score, especially the Malen face to face goalie opportunity. It just didn’t happen that way. Time to look ahead and forget. All in all, although there were no high expectations before the tournament, the team appeared to be in form and the knock out pairings were in our favor, so 2nd round elimination has to be regarded as an unsuccessful tournament. SFs were in our reach. I think this should mean that FDB has to go.

    1. My Take:

      -KNVB is the true cancer to Dutch football and their ego and vindictiveness will always be a stumbling block from making right coaching appointments

      -FDB is out of his depth. If you don’t know your team formation nor your team selection right to the eve of a major tournament, chances are you don’t have the tactical nous nor acumen to effect change on the sidelines in a 90min duration

      -Malen should have scored and maybe Stek could have done better but that’s not why we lost. NT shortcoming is systemic. Football can be a game of margins just not this time. We have a mediocre coach and players that are being asked to play a system they don’t excel at

      -this travesty of untouchables has to be cast away from Dutch football for progress to commence. To think that a footballer of de Roon’s capability was afforded the respect of a prime Patrick Viera is beyond me. Same applies to Depay

      -Depay shouldn’t be placed on a pedestal and he is NOT a better footballer than Malen. The media starts the hype and disappointingly coaches of decent calibre like Koeman swallow the bait. Sticking a player of de Vrij’s experience and capability on the bench for de ligt beggars belief

      -base of midfield is a problem. We have to go with a young dynamic,quick and tough tackling midfielder in the mold of MVB or NDJ and let him err his way to excellence. If we can have patience with a plodding, untalented De Roon, a potential Rijkaard is worth the growing pains.

      -the phasing out of Blind, Promes, Wijnaldum PVA etc should commence asap. This is not to say that they won’t have roles to play but NOTHING should be built around them.

      -fire FDB with immediate effect. You will be doing him a favor.

  8. Keeping it simple, I blame FDB, and I blame KNVB for choosing him.

    You play 5-3-2 but then have bo clue how to react when a player is red carded, this is where experience kicks in.

  9. Nice slap in the face type article in the Guardian, good read though. I laughed a few times.

    I’ll copy paste my favorite section:
    “Farewell then, the Netherlands 2021. Never mind total football: this was a total collapse. And not just a simple collapse, but an abject, jaw-dropping collapse, the kind of collapse you can see happening in front of you in real time, like a slow-motion car crash.”
    Wow hahahaha, so cruel, yet so true.

    1. Fantastic article! And I love the description of de Jong as well. Just perfect.

      And, as always with Guardian football articles (as was also the case when Yahoo still permitted comments), the truth is on full display for all to see in the reader comments 🙂

  10. My main concern is that, this supposedly koemam’s team was suppose to peak at this tournament (euro’s) right?
    Since it didn’t materialize, in part because of mister disaster FDB. What happens next? Another rebuild? Damn, we used to be a team that fights for championships and at least reach semifinals.
    I think now the goal is (at least) to be in a major championship. Damn how low did we go ……

  11. I’ve probably bored / maddened most of you with my real time commentary during the matches. I apologize for that. For me, it’s just a way of communicating my feelings in a slightly more constructive manner than screaming at the television (and the rest of my family thanks you for indulging me in this way :)).

    And I do tend to be reactionary, and to immediately over-react to things I see, only to backtrack a little later. But in going back over my comments from yesterday, I still pretty much feel the same way, and echo a great deal of Jan’s analysis and many of your comments above. I do feel bad about my criticism of both Frank de Boer and Gini Wijnaldum, which was too personal. I’m sure both are nice, respectable upstanding men who are doing what they feel is best in the situation in which they find themselves. Like Cruyff said, “it’s better to go down with your own vision than with someone else’s”.

    But to summarize and condense my prior remarks, I just didn’t feel like we had a vision — at least not an outwardly discernable one — for how to play this match. Tell me this — if Roberto Mancini, Jogi Low or Roberto Martinez had managed the Netherlands in this tournament, or even just in preparation for the Czech Republic match, how different would things have been yesterday? Even the much maligned and overly defensive Fernando Santos and Didier Deschamps would have had a discernable plan for dealing with the Czechs.

    I was not able to make out any tactical plan or decision-making by our coaching staff that attempted to deal with the approach that the Czechs would obviously take. That is the type of failed approach I would expect from a Gareth Southgate or a Luis Enrique, who are essentially just former players who have been appointed as national team managers.

    So for me, as lackluster as our current player pool is (outside of the center backs and Frenkie), and despite our recent struggles to even qualify for international tournaments, we had enough talent and firepower to advance much further in this tournament. To me, our failure to do so comes down to preparation, motivation, team tactics / positional play, and in-game adjustments — in other words, “coaching”. And so while I highly respect Frank de Boer the player, I just don’t think he is anywhere near as talented as a coach.

    Since Rinus Michels, our only truly successful manager at the international level, who have we hired to lead our national team and oversee player development and promotion to the senior team?

    Dick Advocaat (3 times)
    Guus Hiddink (2 times)
    Frank Rijkaard
    Louis van Gaal (2 times)
    Marco van Basten
    Bert van Marwijk
    Danny Blind
    Ronald Koeman
    Frank de Boer

    To win an international tournament, you have to win (or at least survive) four consecutive matches without defeat. Which means, in essence, each knock-out match is its own final. Look over the list above and tell me, if you had to choose a manager in world football today to ensure that your team won a single match, which one you would choose?

    I love Rijkaard, Van Basten, Blind, Koeman and de Boer as players, but I could not honestly select any of them as the top choice to achieve that result. Hiddink and Advocaat are like the Dutch versions of the Premier League relegation avoidance managers (Allardyce, Pardew, Pulis, Redknapp, Hodgson) — guys you bring in to avoid disaster, but not guys you bring in to ensure triumph. I’m not an LVG fan whatsoever, but he is the obvious choice. Why? Because he’s got the mind of a manager and understands tactics. I may disagree with his style and tactics and dislike his personality, but he is capable of doing the things a manager needs to do to win a tournament. The manager establishes the system, sets the tone and expectations, teaches and implements his tactics and system of play, and makes adjustments as needed to address match-to-match issues. I disagree with van Gaal’s style, but his is inarguably a capable manager.

    Although somewhat of a van Gaal disciple, I don’t believe that Frank de Boer is gifted with these managerial qualities. And I don’t think we can have real success against top European (let alone worldwide) competition unless and until we have a competent manager.

    The Czech Republic is a solid, hard-working and cohesive midlevel European team. They would almost certainly never be a group favorite in any Euros or World Cup in modern football. Can they go on a run to the finals? Certainly! Are they the model for how modern football should be played and managed? Probably not. Did they offer anything tactically innovative in the match yesterday that we could not have anticipated and planned for? No. Would Roberto Mancini, Roberto Martinez, Fernando Santos or Didier Deschamps (none of whom I consider to be top flight managers) have a plan in place to deal with the Czechs’ tactics? I would think so! We did not seem to have such a plan going in to the match, nor did we adjust to what was happening prior to the red card, and when things went awry afterwards and we were down to 10 men, our further adjustments were nonsensical (even with our limited resources). Would Eric Ten Hag have done better? I think so. Would Peter Bosz have done better? I think so, although the score might have been 8-7 at that point. Would Hans de Koenig or Ruud Brood? Who knows. My point is, no matter how much talent we have, we need an experienced manager who is a manager by profession if we are to succeed in the modern world of international football. Some of the most talented national teams in Europe right now (France, Belgium, Portugal, England) are pretty much held back by less talented managers. We are not at that talent level now (although we could be again someday soon). But we can be much better than we are now (or at least better than the Czech Republic) if we have a baseline competent manager. I think the search for the next NT manager should commence immediately, but should focus on actual managers / coaches with a track record of tactical success and ingenuity, whether Dutch or not…

    1. And if that wasn’t long enough, here’s the other thing — Nothing I’m recognizing or saying is particularly astute or insightful. In most cases, it’s blatantly obvious to anyone who’s watched football and has an appreciation for the Dutch style of play. Frank de Boer can easily see everything that I see. It should be as thoroughly unacceptable to him as it is to me. Even more so because he himself was able to play and excel at that level and do the things that his players aren’t doing. And yet, he seems powerless as a coach to do anything about it. Everyone can have a bad day. But I’ve watched de Boer at Ajax, and I’ve watched him recently at Atlanta United. Nothing I’ve seen gives me the sense that he’s capable of molding a team into a cohesive attacking unit. Some guys are great players, some guys are great coaches. A select few may be both. We need a great coach at this point to take us to the next level. I just don’t think Frank de Boer is our best option.

  12. Guys this Generation of De ligt,De vrij,Ake,Frenkie,Gravenberch,Van dijk,Malen,Danjuma,Dony van de beek,Gakpo ….they desrve a a better coach…not this clooney loooney FDB….As ”Jan “”‘said you dont need full world class talent to win a tournament..Yes i agree…BUT YOU NEED A SMART COACH AND PLAYERS WITH CHARCTERS..
    I miss Nijel Dejong,i miss Jaap stam….We are left with snowflake rainbow man Wijnaldum…Rollsroyce memphis..these guys should MAN UP…We played 4 games none of the games we are not convincing…lucky that we got comparitively easy opponents and we got benefit….when we faced AN AVERGAE BUT organized team ,we got schooled…i am not talking about 2 gaols and red card…What we were doing before redcard???Czech had more shots on goal than us..our midfeild was OUT MUSCLED…it was a sad match to watch from begining ..Redcard stopped the luck riding of FDB…
    1-i blame KNVB for FDB
    2- i blame FDB
    3-.i i blame his coaching method and man mangement(Try to please people)
    4–i blame his poor selection avoding Tyrell Malacia,Danjuma,Bazoer,Botman,Davy propper WAS SINFUL.
    Earlier he departs earlier the better for us..

  13. What i learned from Euro2021.
    1-Gini wijnaldum is not world class as we think,He should be benched,He is 30..Time catching him.
    2-Memphis..Should be treated any other guy in the team..He cannot be trusted…Benching him is required.
    3-Even with woodenfeet with Athlestism and tirless working you can hang on in feild(eg Dumfries).
    4-We need a unbiased forgin coach..
    5-No matter what talents they get,dutch NT mangers will kick your AA@#S at any tournament..
    6-Rotation is must….
    7-if you replace Annholt with winjdal its like replacing one turd with other turd in fleshing toilet.(Sorry thats how bad is winjdal)
    i looke for Arsene Wenger,Peter bosz,Louis van gaal…to take over..

  14. I think some are overreacting, which is very normal and understandable. Let’s cool down and reason things out. Asking for benching Wijnaldum or Memphis does not make sense, they are great players and will only get better for 1 or 2 more years. World class players peak at 30, 31 years nowadays. Memphis’s Euro was not that bad, he was involved in half our goals and he was a pain for every defense. Yes Wijnaldum had a very bad day yesterday, but still it does not make him anything less than he is.

    With a cool head, I think we just need to change a couple of players: De Roon, Van Aanholt and possibly Blind will be a bit too old at the next tournament. Defensively we are well placed with De Ligt, De Vrij, Dumfries and of course Virgil who will be at his top form for the WC (bar any injury!). Wijanldum and De Jong are there to stay. Memphis and Malen as well. Then you have subs who can only grow further for the next tournament: Gravenberch, Gakpo and Timber can become stars. We also have a number of other players from U-21, U-17 who are doing very well at international level. I keep also hearing about Xavi Simons who is 18 years and playing for PSG. Is he really that good ?

  15. I still think we have enough quality to build a team. The problem is who is going to build that team? I will be very surprised if KNVB sacks FDB.

  16. The announcer in the Croatia – Spain game just noted that of the 22 players on the field the only one from Real Madrid is Luka Modrić — Stunning!

    And now Croatia in the lead on a whiffed back pass!

  17. Our problem is Wing and forwards…Memphis do something he loose ball very often,that brakes the rythem,,Frnkie + Gini combo is pedestrian..and De roon kaes it furthur worse..Then we are F#$4ked at both wingbacks..wingbacks with no ball control as some one said earlier…Denvechyo Rensch and karsdorp at RW will bring that…Also Malacia,Jetro williams and sinkgraven will bring flair to left wing….that will takes us to quality level of other top teams…
    Danjuma will give us another roben…Time for Myron Boadu,Brian brobbery and possibly Stengs….
    Players to get rid of are Berghuis,Promes,Annholt,Blind(if he play midfeild iam okay)
    klassen,De roon,Dumfries(Should be behind Karsdorp and Rensch)
    Players needs to be benched Memphis-Gini…
    on bench
    ———Van de beek————–
    Malacia—Botman—De ligt–karsdorp
    3rd Gk—timkrul/bizot
    Stand bye
    Jurien timber
    Quinton timber

  18. They played poorly. First 15-20 minutes they were on top, but then it looked/felt like the Czechs were stronger mentally and physically and simply pushed them back. (Though I suppose if Malen had taken his chance, we would be extolling them for being able to win a game against a hard, physical opponent—such is Football.) But no getting around the poor play in that game of Wijnldum, De Jong, Depay, Van Aanholt (De ligt wasn’t bad until that moment—which I suppose is like the saying, “but other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?”) No getting around FDB’s mystifying response of subbing in Promes after De ligt was sent off. He should have brought on Ake or Timber (or both) either removed Van Aanholt and Depay, and either brought in Wijndal or moved Blind to the left, pulled everyone except Malen behind the ball, allowed the team to get used to the situation. Perhaps then a chance would have presented itself. But the personnel he had on the field weren’t the ones to handle a lengthy 10 v. 11.

    Anyway, its done. The first week in September (at Norway, home to Montenegro and Turkey) is huge for WC qualifying. They need to make a decision on the coach very quickly. Hopefully, VDV will be fit.

  19. Haha nice usage of Czeching out Jan 🙂

    This is a sad way to end tournament. Overall, Dutch football is a joke at this moment. So many wrong things and no one want to fix it.
    1/ Dutch clubs are bad. Ajax is the only team that carry the coefficient.
    2/ The behavior of the young talent does not seem like top talent at all.
    Stengs, Boadu: when given chance to qualify for CL, what did they do? Not prepared, not training and getting match fit before the critical match.
    Ihattaren: last season was a waste but his behavior is so frustrated to see
    3/ Dutch coach is not up to date. Do we have any Dutch coach that succeed in a foreign country recently?
    4/ Dutch football lost its quality. Think about it, the Dutch has no decent winger and no decent left back. I am not even talking about Robben level. I am talking about someone that can compete in top 6 EPL or similar teams and we have none.
    5/ Dutch team is a joke last 7 years. We did not qualify for 7 years and then when we did, what did KNVB do? Well, these clowns are doing what they do best. They are supposed to organize the country football and move it in the right direction. Instead they treat it like a joke, pick FDB and see how it will go.

    I won’t be surprised if FDB stay and nothing change, this is how it is for the last 10 years at least. No leadership whatsoever. Things are so wrong but no one is trying to fix it. As a fan, it is just sad to see that our football just slowly die.

  20. And after struggling to score in the initial matches, the floodgates have now opened for Spain! Two more nice finishes in extra time. They’ve actually scored 6 of the 8 total goals in this match if you include their initial own goal!

  21. We all knew FDB is a mediocre coach but the problem is that nobody is interested in coaching national teams. Look at the coaches at this Euro. There isn’t one decent coach. Those who tried coaching clubs failed miserably and found a way to get a cushy job that pays well and does not require much work. So to attract anyone remotely good will be very tough. As I said many times before international football has become so bad when compared to club football that even a bad team can win a tournament. Yes FDB is terrible as we saw when he coached Ajax -remember that Ajax won the league 4 times by default during these 4 years- because he accepts mediocrity. The first thing Bosz did when he took over was to get rid of the vast majority of De Boer’s players!! I think the problem is also deeper than just the coach. We simply do not have enough talent at the moment. Even Memphis is not a world beater and I am quite sure he will fail at Barcelona. The same goes for Malen. He is good but not world class. The only true world class talent at this very moment is Frenkie, but he he cannot do it alone. Hopefully new blood will emerge soon.

  22. I don’t think Frenkie is the only world class. We have 5 or 6 world class players so quality is not really an issue. If anything, the players lack the winning mentality and fighting spirit. Current team also lacks a captain. Gini is a great player but does not possess a captain attitude. De Jong will never be. Memphis neither. VVD is the best man for the role and his leadership was missed big time. I can also see De Ligt in a couple of years time becoming captain and he does have the skills.

  23. The point is that in international football you don;t need the best players to win a tournament but you need a few world class players surrounded by players who are willing to fight for the cause. The Czechs are such a team with plenty of very average players (how many of the Czech players would I realistically want for my Ajax team? probably zero!) but they were organized, played a system they feel comfortable with and fought hard. 3 things that we did not have yesterday. De Boer was totally lost. Even after De Ligt was sent off, the coach regroups his players and organizes them, but the only thing he did was to take our most threatening player out and replace him with one who should not even have been among the 26 in the first place!! With Malen and Memphis, we would have continue dto force the Czechs to defend with 3 players at the back but by removing Malen, he gave a free reign to the Czechs to attack at will and put even more pressure on us. It was so obvious but our esteemed coach did not even see that. This is why he has to go. He is incompetent.

    1. Agree with your assessment Jeff. It won’t be easy to replace FDB though and given the WC is next year, it has to be done ASAP. I’ve heard that he placed the blame for the loss on himself so don’t be surprised if he resigns in the coming days.

  24. Switzerland currently beating France 1-0 30 minutes in, with the French looking to rally. We’ll see what tactical adjustments (if any) Deschamps makes…

  25. Deschamps is as much an idiot as FDB so don’t expect much from him. The only difference -and it is massive- is that France has virtually the best players in the world at every position or almost every position. But if Deschamps was in charge of Holland he would do as badly as our hero!!

  26. Switzerland is one poor Embolo first touch from being up 2-0 on France at halftime, which is why our early exit remains so frustrating — Anything can happen!

    De Boer, Memphis, Wijnaldum, van Aanholt and de Ligt let us down yesterday. Honestly Malen too with his failure to beat the keeper.

    Regardless of how you feel about our talent level, KNVB administration, coaching, etc., we should still be playing in this tournament!

    1. That’s the point…the French don’t have a De Roon!! Haha. And by the way Deschamps started with the same 5-3-2 but now they are back to a more classic 4-4-2. Again Deschamps is an absolute zero of a coach. Does any of you not wonder why nobody offered him a club job after having done “so well” with France? Because he is terrible.

  27. Switzerland with a GLORIOUS chance to go up 2-0 just before 50 minutes. If the Swiss hold, this would be more of a disaster for France than the Czech Republic match for us! We at least were reduced to 10 men before conceding.

    Come to think of it, Griezmann and Mbappe are both in that quasi-striker / quasi-wing mode like Memphis and Malen. Ah, but they have Benzema and Giroud too…

    And now Switzerland gets a VAR-awarded penalty! Rodriguez… and Lloris saves it! That would have been it for France!

    Never let a man with a ponytail take a penalty (Roberto Baggio)…

    1. Nice ball movement by France, and a HUGE miss by Mbappe! But Benzema makes up for it moments later!
      1-1. I guess it’s helpful to have a goal-scoring striker…

  28. Rodriguez looked like a looser before penalty.. I was 100 percent sure that he was going to miss it.. And i was right.. Rodriguez looked like FDB vs italy at euro 2000..
    Lesson.. Never allow loosers tontake penalty..

      1. @Van den berg… Everyone miss penalty at times.. But looking a like looser before taking penalty is not welcome.. I can undertsand the feelings after missing a penalty.. If you are not confident just hand over to someone else in team.. Then comes to my penalty taking.. I never played international games.. Yes i can dribble as good as kuyt and Dumfries.. I can burry penlaty like kuyt.. If i ever have doubt on myself i will handover to my teammate..

  29. Xhaka with the defense splitting ball to put the game level!

    What a game!

    Today’s my birthday and I’ve got two fantastic matches to watch! So glad our match was yesterday 😉

          1. Thanks! It’s hard to keep up with these young guys!

            I hope we win won of these soon. I’m beginning to feel like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon!

  30. It’s about pride, passion and leadership. Looking at all the round of 16 games it is clear that so far NT has been the worst team by far, even worse than Wales who at least fought. Looking at Croatia and Swiss you come to realize that our “talents” are simply overpaid ordinary players who picked the right agent to get a fat salary somewhere. Add to this a completely unqualified gym teacher for a coach and there is your crap team. I feel terrible for those 7000 fans that were in stadium yesterday. Best fans in the world. Such a shame.

          1. Congrats Guillaume!!! Way to go!

            Just for comparative purposes, the completed passes in defensive end / completed passes in attacking end / total completed passes (passing percentage) for the Swiss midfielders:

            Xhaka 30 / 50 / 80 (92%) — 120 minutes
            Freuler 20 / 26 / 46 (90%) — 120 minutes
            Shaqiri 7 / 16 / 23 (79%) — 73 minutes

            They all had more than 10!

  31. All these teams have more guts and fighting spirit than Holland. We are a total joke! Frankly it is embarrassing to see little Switzerland come back from 3-1 after having missed a PK to put them 2-0 up with 10 min left against the mighty French! And us in comparison, against the mediocre Czechs we could not even mount a single scoring chance. SHAMEFUL!! If we had played today against France, we would have lost 6 or 7-1.
    And yes I am sure Zidane will take over the French team…it was meant to be.

    1. Agree on the lack of fighting spirit. That’s exactly what the Swiss said at 1-3: if we go out, we go out in style. But this is quite unusual for them, tbh.

  32. Here in the French speaking part of 🇨🇭, people have a love/hate relationship with our big French neighbor, so now are celebrating like we won the bloody world cup, lol.

    La nuit va être longue!!

  33. Euros.

    I had NT to reach QF, they fell one short. No big deal, all the signs and symptoms were there in the team but like many other here, FDB also must had been under the same impression, the team under the new formation would grow better during the course of the fairly easy on paper group stage and from there on anything could have been possible. He also did reveal his expectation of SF at most. Based on what, only he knows.

    After the scotland draw, I just knew sooner or later the limitation of the team would be exposed and it would only take a pressing team to expose it. Ukriane came close but they couldnt maintain the intensity of pressing switching on and of and let NT get back into the game.the czech were a better structured team, they pressed, they had the advantage, they won.

    Its was a gamble imo that FDB’s simply took in the wake of the all round criticism he had since his appointment and to prove the critics wrong and to polish his character reference as a coach and it back fired.

    During the czech game in the second half, the camera focused on him at 2-0 and for the first time I felt sorry for him but couldnt sympathize with him because he could have done better if he would have been more considerate and given chance to those who deserved it. (Egos aside).The fact that he was achieving good results with average teams led him to believe he was on par with other other big nations which was clearly not the case.

    You can go back and looks at my old posts as what I said about, wijnaldum,Berghuis, Blind in high tempo games and with comptent teams. I was patiently waiting for them to come up with a sizable oppenent and it happend vs the Czech. You see vs NM, everthing looked great, depay,wijnaldum, Blind, the usual names, come the czech they just couldnt raise to the occasion. What do you make out of it. Well the red card was a turing point but before even that they showed nothing which can be used as a benefit of doubt factor to say they would have won if not for the red card.

    I fail to under stand the dutch tatic. You are playing a wingback system in which one wing back has licence to freely move forward and other has to provide cover for a a weak defender. I havent seen this anywhere and this is only a feature in NT to accomdate Blind. Far out man. for how long. Another tournment has come and gone. Why not Ake who was defensively more sound and good in ariel battle and Wijndal for more speed and thrust on the flank.

    The inability for both Depay and Malen to press from the right is also a downfall for the combo. Both have their stronghold on the left and this offsets the balance interms of threat from the right which was at the expense of over working Dumfries. ( vs Czech) Even though Depay was playing deeper, in attacking phases he was continuously drifting towards the left where malen was, creating a big congestion.if Dumfries would have to track back then, that right flank was simply dead.
    This was more blanced with weghorst starting, occupying that right side while Depay could move into spaces which malen occupied on the left. This would eventually give more space for wijnaldum to move up in the middle where he is the most decsive.

    Midfield is a area of concern and I dont think there will be better options any time soon. Alot of people are saying Gravenberch is the way forward but him and frenkie play the same position. Nether are effective on the right.

    Defense will be ok once Van Dijk returns plus there is long line of good defenders who are waiting in the line and slowly should be injected for back up options.

    1. Regarding midfield, I disagree. There’s no current ability, but there’s plenty of potential around the corner, and therefore plenty to be optimistic about.
      First we shouldn’t forget the WC is not in one year. It’s in 1.5 years. That’s two pre-seasons away + 1 full regular season + a couple of months at least of the next one.
      So plenty of time for more players to develop like Gravenberch, Koopmeiners, or Ekkelenkamp, or De Wit, Kadıoğlu if he decides to play for the Netherlands. And plenty of time as well for other players to regain form like Van De Beek, Propper, etc…
      It’s possible we may not need to see De Roon at a major tournament again, fingers crossed 🙂

    2. @Wilson….Midfield We have players ,only problem is Gini wijnladum(lack of vision,flow killer) and klassen(lack of ball control and strentgh)….Gravenberch is more of attacker,his tackles are questionable…
      i think midefeild is safe with Frenkie,koopmeiners,Bazoer,Gravenbrch,Harroui and would add St juste and Ake if grit is needed….
      Then Really do you want blind to be replaced with Winjdal????seriously????Winjdal should not be near the team..Blind only lacks speed, winjdal is not that fast,he sh#$$its in other areas….
      Our future is with Malacia,Terence kongolo,sinkgraven,Jetro williams if you want to see good connecetive football.
      Benching Gini and Depay is key…

    1. It basically speaks of how the KNVB is completely absent during the whole debacle. They basically threw De Boer in front of the lions (media) and no one was there to support or comment.

      De Boer obviously resigned even before the KNVB could make a statement. Now that idiot stumbler Hoogma came out to say- again! – they need a Koeman type coach. What an amateur

  34. Ramy.

    The dilemma in the midfield itself is because of Frenkie. With him around you cannot play a point back ward midfield to cater for the likes of koopmeiners and others like schouten and those defendive type midfielders. At barcelona koeman does deploy this with Busquets at the base but then he switches frenkie to the right and Pedri as attacking midfielder.

    Gravenberch plays the same position as frenkie and like I said neither look comfortable on the right. Gravenberch can become a good back up for frenkie or unless frenkie shifts to the right. This is something the coaches have to ponder about amd will take time.

    Being said this other options, alteration and rotation should be subject to intrest given the differents types of midfielders that are coming up and should it work even without frenkie. You cannot just build the team around frenkie like someone said. Its has to revolve around the trio and not just one. This has already been a ongoing feature for NT for last couple of years and it should end after the Czech game. he simply can not do it alone by himself.

    De Wit and Ekelenkamp hopefully if they can step up. Otherwise both are techncial less.

    Kadigolu is more like Sneijder typo. Winger/ midfielder.

    VDBeek, when ever you put him into the equation you have to think about who is better him or wijnaldum. Not a big fan of his as he also lacks technicality of attacking mid.

  35. Wilson, you are wrong about Grav and Frenkie. They can absolutely play together. Iniesta and Xavi played together for years. Grav is so technically gifted and would combine amazingly well with Frenkie. There is no doubt that players of their caliber can find a way to play together. As I said many times, the main problem with the team was the lack of balance in MF because de Roon is a “cone”. He contributes nothing, does not even defend well and cannot make a pass longer than 2-3 meters. He is useless especially when there are world class defenders behind him, which is a luxury we have not had since the 70s with Rijsbergen/Krol and 80s with Rijkaard/Koeman. This is the way to build the team. Defenses always win championships. With Timber, Rensch, even Malacia who are emerging, we should be very good for a long time. If only we had a “coach” who lets us play the Dutch way then we could be competitive. When you look at Switzerland, nobody can say that team was better than ours. Look at their players! Ajax dismantled the best Swiss team (Young Boys Bern) during this past season with such ease. So there is no excuse. But the coach is flat and has no fighting spirit so it is not surprising it reflected on the players in the same manner.

  36. The only positive thing which can come out of this sob story is a new coach who can inspire. Anyone you guys have in mind? Rijkaard? LVG? Ten Hag?

  37. He resigned…..I think Frank needs to re-consider his future profession. He is such a good looking man and can work on TV. Coaching is not his job. I really feel bad about him. So, who is going to be a new coach, Danny Blind? Or next useless Dutch coach who is out of job currently?

  38. Respecting all the comments, but for me it’s simple. He need a high caliber coach, stop the former player turned coach experience.
    We need someone who has been educated in coaching and has the experience. We need a tactician.
    We have the players, all the need is coaching! They need someone who is able to guide them when they are 0-1 or 0-2 down. They need someone who knows how to run plays.
    All this talk about players is useless without a real coach

  39. KNVB is bureaucratic machine and Hoogma is a lead bureaucrat. they will need quickly to check the box. Cocu and Gio are free, one of them will be selected as a coach. KNVB’s creativity does not go behind the Netherlands.

  40. Let’s not rush into conclusions, because we did well with young inexperienced coaches and experienced ones … Rijkaard (2000), Hiddink (1998), Van Gaal (2014), Van Marwijk (2010). It’s not only about the coach of course. We still need to fit in 2 to 4 new players to make a strong squad. Stekelenburg, Van Aanholt and De Roon need to be replaced. I hope the next 1.5 seasons bring up some new players and improve our new players. Malen looks set for a move to Dortmund although he’s been followed also by some big clubs (they liked his performance in the Euro). I think Gakpo might need a change of team – he has potential. Hopefully a couple of other players will emerge from the U17 / U19 teams.

  41. Watching Eng-Ger game. I wish there was a way both teams were eliminated but it is England time. They haven’t beaten Ger in ages. And looking at Pickford I can’t but wonder what would have been if he didn’t butcher VVD!? Maybe he is the reason of our team’s downfall. What a thug. Similar to Tony Schumacher but way more ugly looking.

  42. Now that FDB is gone I am happy we lost the game. What a relief. This guy was way above his head. He can be a decent Eredivisie mid table coach but that’s it. I am sure KNVB will work hard to screw up again but maybe we get lucky. Anyone will be a major upgrade over FDB. How about Hank Ten Cate?

  43. So, comment from KNVB:

    ”We hadden zelf de knoop doorgehakt als hij niet was opgestapt” (Which, while I am not a Dutch speaker, I understand to mean: “If he hadn’t taken the decision, we would have stepped up.” Or something like that.”)

    They say this after he resigns? This is not how you treat people. They should graciously thank him for his service and leave it at that. What truly lousy people.

    1. The thing to keep in mind when evaluating how the Dutch people speak is that they are very blunt. What we would consider aggressive and rude in America or England, the Dutch people consider straightforward and logical. They usually do not mince words and place a high value on honest and direct communication.

  44. England vsGermany has been mildly entertaining so far. England seems to be in control but they look disjointed as if they have not really played together with this particular group before. Saka, Kane and Sterling not really on the same page. Germany has mainly played on the counter in the last 20 minutes or so, and had several good chances. Very little pressure on either team while in possession though.

    1. Looking at England’s starting XI, does Southgate choose his lineups by throwing darts?

      What was the idea behind this? There is no attacking midfield presence whatsoever!

      And just before the half both Sterling and Kane go down in the box. both had fantastic scoring opportunities and neither was rewarded for diving

  45. There are very few players to consistently make the same choices on the field that I would expect them to make. Sometimes the players really surprise me and do something brilliant that I would never have envisioned. Other times they seem to miss the most obvious decisions and do something inane. Raheem Sterling consistently falls into this latter category

  46. Well, at least Sterling responds well to criticism — he just finished a nice move for England’s first goal

    However, the ball was really in a position where even he couldn’t possibly miss!

  47. Anyone with the right mind set will not pick FDB as coach but Nico-Jan Hoogma did and now he stay on and will search for new coach. This is the same guy who said that Brobbey should sign with Leipzig not Ajax.

  48. I predicted a 2-0 win for England today. I think they will meet Belgium in the final and win it all. They are hugely advantage of playing all games at home and this sucks for the rest of the teams.

  49. Almost most people including England fans hate their own coach (southgate). they said the coach is coward, play defensive too much, not have imagination, whith so many talented attacking England players.

    I wonder what they say now… so far southgate is doing everything right.
    Put defensive as the most important thing.

  50. “On a successor for De Boer, Hoogma said, ‘It certainly won’t be easy. I won’t go into names, everything is very fresh now. Ronald Koeman had a kind of aura about him: he really was the chief, the boss. That has worked very well and put us all on a certain path. I’m thinking in that direction, that’s the feeling I have.'”

    You mean, like someone who won’t be told who his assistants have to be?

  51. Rumor has it KNVB is considering Ronald De Boer 🙂 Stay tuned.
    On a serious note I can’t even imagine what Low could do for us. But he would basically ask for more than just a bicycle and grocery money for compensation so he may be out of reach, too expensive.

  52. Just wanted to remind everyone that the winner of this Sweden – Ukraine match will reach the quarterfinals and finish ahead of us in this tournament. You could have switched their uniforms at halftime and I doubt many casual viewers would have even noticed the difference.

  53. I had a feeling Ukraine would get past Sweden. Heartbroken for the swedes. Oh the irony of Ukraine, 3rd team in our group going to quarters. England must be happy.

  54. The 3rd team in our group, the 1st team that Netherlands beat, the last team to qualify in Round 16, is in the Quarter Final.

    While Netherlands can do is watching them play against mighty England.

  55. Sacking FDB was inevitable and a good start for NT.. But that doesnot solve 75 percent things..
    We must keep in check rainbow man wijnaldum and rollsroyce depay.. Deapy again going in to different direction… We can play better fluid game with out gini wijnaldum by using propper, dejong, de beek, veerman, koopmeiners and bazoer…. We would be like germans of 2014 if we do that.. Then we ned to try new forwards with out depay.. I am. Sure Gakpo.. Danjuma, malen would be more deadlier than malen depay combo..then and most importantly get rid of wooden feeted and slow defenders/full backs from team.. We are stuck at full back.. Bring in Rensch, karsdorp and Timber as first choice right backs.. Then on left bring in Jetro williams, sinkgraven, Malacia, Terence kongolo… And Bijlow as undisputed starter… Then you start coaching.. You will see the difference..

        1. Memphis has skills,he can score goals..but he is a round in square pegs…Barca is all about possesion game,Depay is consis\stantly loosing ball by doing all tricks…this will back fire…there is a chance He is cost Koeman Job..

  56. @ Jeff
    Gravenberch is neither inestia esque or xavi but he looks promising atm playing at Ajax. He is also not frenkie esque where by you can give him the benefit of doubt that he can reach his level . Saying it can work doesnt necesarily mean it will. You have to look at pros and cons based on how and where they play. That De Roon position requires some body robust and attacking minded at the same time and like I said it needs to be tested and it will take some time. This is something the coaches will need to think about and somebody will have to endure the bitterness of playing out of position. What I see in gravenberch is flashes of Yaya toure and probga. He is a good attacking minded player but sometimes is lethargic in defending.

    I think point back ward is the way forward like what koeman is doing at barce. He tried to over look busquets and build the midfield around frenkie but it didnt work. He had to switch frenkie to the right to accomdate busquets and pedri and its working good.
    Jerdy schouten is the perfect deep lying midfielder out there and so is Koopmeiners. It will only come down to some alterations and rotation to get them rolling.

    In euro news.Have to eat my words here, as I predicted the winner to come from group F and off course either Italy. I down, 1 to go.

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